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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: Zoe on June 04, 2013, 08:50:01 AM

Title: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 04, 2013, 08:50:01 AM
Alright Mustachians, I need opinions!

I am in contact with the owners of a property that is right next door to my parent's place. It is an older model (1980!) mobile home on a tad less than an acre. It has been vacant for 3 years while it's been in probate. The adult children are now the owners. I have contacted them and they are wanting to sell it. We met out there this past Sunday and checked it out. Needs a thorough cleaning, some minor repairs (from what I can see), but nothing too bad. They aren't sure how much they want to ask, so they are having an appraiser come out sometime (not sure when) to tell them about what it's worth.

Now, we are debt free, and have about $4K in savings along with around $11K in Roth IRA's. I really want to jump on this property as we actually like the much smaller house (2 bed 2 bath) as opposed to our monster 4 bed, 2.5 bath. And my parent's watch my son when my husband and I's work schedule over lap. I currently drive half an hour out of my way to drop him off about 1 week every month.

Moving here would reduce our expenses from $2,039 per month to around $1,200 per month. Our monthly take home is approx $2,988/month. It is also much closer to my husband's job.

My question is, should we use the Roth money to make this cash purchase*? I realize we would pay a tax penalty since the accounts have not been open for 5 years.

*We are estimating the property to be worth between $10K and $20K. My mom still has money left from her mom's passing and she offered to be a bank on any remaining money we needed. I also just got a message from the owner stating that the appraiser will be out sometime this week.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: mlipps on June 04, 2013, 09:00:27 AM
Unless the money is in your Roth from a conversion, there's no penalty for the withdrawal of contributions at any time.. It sounds like via the reduced expenses, the withdrawal could be worthwhile from a financial perspective.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: bevathome on June 04, 2013, 09:02:02 AM
While you can take out your Roth IRA contributions (not gains) tax-free at any time, you will lose the tax benefit of putting the money there in the first place.  I'd seek other options first.

Do you own or rent your current house?  If you own it, will you be selling it or renting it out?

Would you consider getting a loan to buy the new home?  I don't advocate debt, but if you can get a low rate and pay it off quickly, it might be better than taking money out of the Roth IRA.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: mlipps on June 04, 2013, 09:04:53 AM
While you can take out your Roth IRA contributions (not gains) tax-free at any time, you will lose the tax benefit of putting the money there in the first place.  I'd seek other options first.

Do you own or rent your current house?  If you own it, will you be selling it or renting it out?

Would you consider getting a loan to buy the new home?  I don't advocate debt, but if you can get a low rate and pay it off quickly, it might be better than taking money out of the Roth IRA.

Yes but they're saving $900/month. Zoe, if you didn't make this change, could you afford to fund your Roths for 2013? If you do make the change, can you then afford to fund the Roths for 2013? Remember, you have until April 2014 to do so. If so, it seems pretty clear cut to me, the only cost related to the withdrawal is a few months worth of gains from being out of the market.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 04, 2013, 09:21:43 AM
While you can take out your Roth IRA contributions (not gains) tax-free at any time, you will lose the tax benefit of putting the money there in the first place.  I'd seek other options first.

Do you own or rent your current house?  If you own it, will you be selling it or renting it out?

Would you consider getting a loan to buy the new home?  I don't advocate debt, but if you can get a low rate and pay it off quickly, it might be better than taking money out of the Roth IRA.

We currently rent. I would consider a loan, except my husband is still a temp (he's been there 2 years, so it might be possible to get a loan) and getting a loan on a trailer is really hard to do.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 04, 2013, 09:25:23 AM
While you can take out your Roth IRA contributions (not gains) tax-free at any time, you will lose the tax benefit of putting the money there in the first place.  I'd seek other options first.

Do you own or rent your current house?  If you own it, will you be selling it or renting it out?

Would you consider getting a loan to buy the new home?  I don't advocate debt, but if you can get a low rate and pay it off quickly, it might be better than taking money out of the Roth IRA.

Yes but they're saving $900/month. Zoe, if you didn't make this change, could you afford to fund your Roths for 2013? If you do make the change, can you then afford to fund the Roths for 2013? Remember, you have until April 2014 to do so. If so, it seems pretty clear cut to me, the only cost related to the withdrawal is a few months worth of gains from being out of the market.

If we didn't make this change, then we more than likely could not fully fund our Roths for 2013. If we do make the change, then we could absolutely fully fund them!

My husband is next in line to get hired which would bring around a $6/hr raise. I am in the running for a promotion which would bring about a $2.50/hr raise. Our savings rate would be awesome if we make this change and get promotions.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Megatron on June 04, 2013, 10:35:48 AM
it seems to make sense for me to purchase it. with the amount of money and time (driving your child to grandma) you will be able to save a lot more and pay back Bank of Mom in no time. I would ask your mom to see how much she would be comfortable loaning you, that way you will take the minimum out of your Roth. with that saving rate you can pay back Mom within a year.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 04, 2013, 10:41:41 AM
it seems to make sense for me to purchase it. with the amount of money and time (driving your child to grandma) you will be able to save a lot more and pay back Bank of Mom in no time. I would ask your mom to see how much she would be comfortable loaning you, that way you will take the minimum out of your Roth. with that saving rate you can pay back Mom within a year.

I agree. I HATE borrowing money from family, but at such a low price, we'd be able to pay her back without her realizing the money was ever gone. As soon as the appraisal comes back I'll have a better starting point.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 04, 2013, 04:07:02 PM
We've just moved out of an older (1971) trailer that had sat empty for quite some time before we moved in four years ago. Check the floors carefully - if it's carpeted, poke around for soft spots.

. If you didn't look underneath, the trailer, do. You're looking for holes in the floor and for standing water or extensive mud. Holes and soft spots you can fix. If you have a swamp under there, consider carefully, and think about mold and your health.

Fortunately, 1980 is too new for aluminum wiring, so there's a worry you don't have. The trailer will likely have virtually no insulation, though, and odds are much of what it once had has been wet and isn't insulating any longer. Be sure you budget for much higher heating and cooling bills.

I don't mean to scare you off. An older trailer can be perfectly fine, and we did pretty well in one ten years older than the one you're looking at. Just be sure you think it through.

Oh, look into Kool Seal for the roof, even if its not leaking now. It will make a difference in the summer sun, and if it hasn't had it in three years, it's probably due in order to be sure the rain stays out.

Edited to clarify that I meant to look under the trailer, not to pull up carpets.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: MountainFlower on June 04, 2013, 09:06:28 PM
Having your son grow up next to grandma is so priceless.   What a blessing to him and her.  This seems like a win.  Would you eventually be able to build a house there? 

The loan from her could be win/win too.  If she's like my mom, her money is sitting in an account earning virtually nothing.  A loan from you at 3% or something would be much better. 
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: jamccain on June 04, 2013, 10:19:57 PM
Mobile homes are  much cheaper and easier to repair (compared to stick built homes) so even if needed work I wouldn't be scared of it.  You could rip out the entire floor and put in a new one for just a couple K max.  Roof leaks, no worries, get the Kool Seal.  Windows...1/4 the cost of a stick built.  I don't think you'll get financing so you need a plan to get the cash together.  Family is probably your best bet.  You could also use private money if you knew somebody who had the cash to loan on it. 

I have two friends who keep rentals and they moved away from single family homes for mobile homes because they are so easy and cheap to maintain...not to mention cheap on the front end.

Zoe, what city/state are you in?
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 04, 2013, 11:37:40 PM
Rural, thank you so much for that info! I didn't notice any soft spots in the floor when we were "touring" it. We'll look underneath and whatnot next time we're over there.

I'm in Greenville, SC.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: AlexK on June 05, 2013, 01:14:19 AM
I would find a way to buy the place even if it means draining the Roth. I moved from a big house to a 1988 mobile back in 2008 and it turned out to be a great decision. Your negotiations could be tough though since the seller knows you really want the place. Let them know there are a few other nearby properties you are looking at as well.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 05, 2013, 08:34:57 AM
Having your son grow up next to grandma is so priceless.   What a blessing to him and her.  This seems like a win.  Would you eventually be able to build a house there? 

The loan from her could be win/win too.  If she's like my mom, her money is sitting in an account earning virtually nothing.  A loan from you at 3% or something would be much better.

I "could" build a house there, but I don't want to stay in that location long term.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 05, 2013, 09:00:30 AM
Having your son grow up next to grandma is so priceless.   What a blessing to him and her.  This seems like a win.  Would you eventually be able to build a house there? 

The loan from her could be win/win too.  If she's like my mom, her money is sitting in an account earning virtually nothing.  A loan from you at 3% or something would be much better.

I "could" build a house there, but I don't want to stay in that location long term.

How long, then? You should factor that in as you consider the purchase.

I'd suggest assuming you can probably get ten to fifteen years out of the trailer if it's in good shape now, but not much more. They just aren't built to last forever.

Since you said you're in SC, I'll say again that you want to do the Kool Seal. If it's been three years since it was done, a new coat will be much more reflective than what's there already, and the place will stay cooler this summer. It's not hard to do. You'll likely need two five gallon cans and some deep pile paint rollers, which don't need to be the best quality you can find. This is a single use application. Get a very long extension pole. You don't want to walk on the roof of an older mobile home at all if you can help it.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 05, 2013, 09:04:11 AM
Oh, and there are cheaper store brand versions of Kool Seal, which work perfectly well as far as we could tell.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 05, 2013, 09:54:54 AM
Having your son grow up next to grandma is so priceless.   What a blessing to him and her.  This seems like a win.  Would you eventually be able to build a house there? 

The loan from her could be win/win too.  If she's like my mom, her money is sitting in an account earning virtually nothing.  A loan from you at 3% or something would be much better.

I "could" build a house there, but I don't want to stay in that location long term.

How long, then? You should factor that in as you consider the purchase.

I'd suggest assuming you can probably get ten to fifteen years out of the trailer if it's in good shape now, but not much more. They just aren't built to last forever.

Since you said you're in SC, I'll say again that you want to do the Kool Seal. If it's been three years since it was done, a new coat will be much more reflective than what's there already, and the place will stay cooler this summer. It's not hard to do. You'll likely need two five gallon cans and some deep pile paint rollers, which don't need to be the best quality you can find. This is a single use application. Get a very long extension pole. You don't want to walk on the roof of an older mobile home at all if you can help it.

It's not the trailer or property that would influence my decision on how long to stay. It's the neighbors. We've had problems with them in the past. Well, one girl in particular. She's actually my cousin by marriage, heh. She's been in and out of jail. Drugs and whatnot. She is currently in jail for breaking into this trailer trying to steal stuff to sell for drugs. Her mom says she is exactly where she needs to be. I'd be willing to say I'd stay there for 5+ years.

Thanks for the tip about the Kool Seal. I'll definitely look into doing that. I'd also like to eventually gut the interior, insulate better and put up sheet rock.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: jamccain on June 05, 2013, 08:30:52 PM
When you are looking for soft spots concentrate on areas where water might have come into the home, like under a window.  Like I said before, even if they are there it's a fairly easy and cheap fix.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 06, 2013, 04:25:50 AM
When you are looking for soft spots concentrate on areas where water might have come into the home, like under a window.  Like I said before, even if they are there it's a fairly easy and cheap fix.

Agreed. Holes in the floor wouldn't (and didn't) give me pause about an old mobile home, just fix and stop the leak that's likely the root cause.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 08, 2013, 03:11:34 PM
Thanks for all the info everyone! The appraiser has been out there. He's still putting together a price. Should know something by the beginning of the week, I would think. I've been looking at mobile home remodeling jobs online. Some of them are awesome! Completely gutted and redone.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 08, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
As you negotiate with the seller, remember they probably know you want the place, but also remember that probably no one else does. You're in a position of strength here because if you walk, they're stuck, and that mobile home is going to look like a liability, not an improvement, to most people.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 08, 2013, 06:05:16 PM
As you negotiate with the seller, remember they probably know you want the place, but also remember that probably no one else does. You're in a position of strength here because if you walk, they're stuck, and that mobile home is going to look like a liability, not an improvement, to most people.

So true.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: meadow lark on June 08, 2013, 06:57:57 PM
Just a different perspective: We bought a 1976 double wide a few years ago.  Planned to save lots of money with it.  Didn't turn out that way.  Some was our stupidity, some was bad luck, changing desires, etc.  We bought a property, confirmed with the zoning office in person, with the address prior to buying that we could put a mobile on it, had the pad and driveway put in, bought the mobile in cash ($12,000) went to get the moving permit, were denied by the city.  Turns out our whole subdivision allowed mobiles, except our street, which did not have a "zone"' so it reverted back to R1, which allowed mobiles if they were 1983 or newer.    Then we decided it was easier to sell the property than the mobile, so we bought a new property in an area we liked better, on and on.  Did I mention it was 2007 - 2008...  Huge money wasting adventure.  Was an immense remodel, we over-improved and will never get our money back.  It's paid off, and if it wasn't a 30 mile commute each way I would happily live in it now.  Because we did a complete gut, and it is lovely.
  So I know many of our issues (placing utilities cost a fortune) won't affect you, but if you do this know you can waste a lot of money improving this house and never get it back.  And where I live, mobile home "parts" are more expensive than the equivalent in a stix and brix.  And no one you hire may know what to do in a mobile home.  Just remember, this is a depreciating asset.  Figure out what the vacant lot would sell for, and don't pay much more than that.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on June 08, 2013, 07:30:19 PM
Will you also get the land with your purchase? I have seen many mobile home owners face some really tough problems when they fell out of favor with their landlord. If the home is too old to move, they had to sell it to someone the landlord approved, which was difficult when all the landlord wanted to do was kick them off the property and tear down the mobile home to make room for a newer-looking one. Or, rent out the home themselves after buying it for dirt cheap from a homeowner who had no other options.

I'm not trying to scare you off, just to point out one of the big down sides to owning a mobile home and not the land.

I would also have the home inspected by someone you trust (who is not working for the seller), to check for mold and other pricey issues.

In your big plan, also remember (as meadowlark pointed out) that mobile homes are depreciating assets. Any money you put into it should be considered "rent," in the sense that you are unlikely to get it back when it comes time to sell it.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 08, 2013, 09:01:05 PM
Meadow Lark, that sounds like a nightmare!

Yes, the land will come with the trailer. A 1980 trailer really has no value. So, I'm betting that the appraisal will be mostly land value. Around here an acre goes for between 10-20k give or take a bit. This already has utilities, but it's more out in the country. So, I'm really estimating 15K on the high side.

I realize any money I put into the trailer I won't get back. I get that. I won't dump thousands and thousands in it. Just enough to make it more like a "house" on the inside and some updates that can be done on the cheap. My family will help with repairs/updates so I won't have to hire any contractors. Of course, electrical will be done by an electrician if anything needs to be done.

I plan on someone doing a thorough inspection so I don't end up with a huge money pit.

Whenever I decide to move out, I was thinking of potentially renting it out. Real estate is my long term goal, so this would be a good starter property to get my feet wet.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 09, 2013, 08:04:50 AM
I got a message from the owner this morning. She said the appraisal came back as "being close to $25K". Hmm. I had a realtor friend pull some comps but there was nothing sold in the last year in that area. What he did find was an average of $24K, but all those mobile homes were much newer. And one was on a river, lol. I think I'm about to ask him to take over negotiations. I'll get too emotionally involved. And $25K is too much. It's .89 acres and a 1980 trailer.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 09, 2013, 04:05:29 PM
I offered $15K, as is. (I will get a home inspector out to make sure there aren't any huge problems.) Waiting to hear back.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 09, 2013, 07:38:14 PM
I thought 15k was what you wanted to pay? If you meet in the middle between your $15k and their $25k, that's $20k. Are you going to be okay with that?

You can see the appraisal, by the way. Just ask for a copy and say your bank needs it. Thats reeaonable and has the advantage of bing true, most likely. That will give you a better idea of what "close to 25k" means.

Also, yes on the inspector, and drop your offer if/ when he finds problems.

Best of luck!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 09, 2013, 08:20:55 PM
$15K would have been ideal. She shot it down though without a counter. So, I asked what her counter was. I haven't heard back. $20K would be absolute tops.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on June 10, 2013, 02:11:03 PM
I'm sorry it's not working out for the price you want to pay. If that's your top limit, keep that in mind and don't budge. I wouldn't be surprised if they came back to you in 2 months, ready to agree to your offer.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 11, 2013, 09:37:16 AM
She messaged me last night saying that she has talked with her brothers but they haven't agreed upon a counter. And one of the brother's is actually wanting to list it with a realtor. My top price (my mom has agreed to) is $20K. She would even be willing to go to $22K just to have us next door (she is still dealing with the side effects of leukemia treatment). $22K is too much in my opinion. $20K is the absolute tops I feel it is worth.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rollin on June 11, 2013, 10:19:55 AM
I realize any money I put into the trailer I won't get back.

Except for improvements that lower your energy and other utility costs.  These can be significant savings.  These can definately be "investments."  Just prioritize best bang for the buck type things first.  Also, with an acre of land you can do some great vegetable growing and chicken raising, but that's for another post!

Also, if they hire a Realtor their costs go up.  They should work with you now, but often when you have multiple owners (siblings) they all want a certain amount that add up to higher than the property is worth.  I see that often.  Make up your mind to walk away at a certain price point - no attachment to it either way - and that may help remove the emotion from this.  I love emotions, but not when purchasing a property.  They tend to cloud things up a lot (not thinking clearly in other words).

Good luck.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rollin on June 11, 2013, 10:25:47 AM
On more thing (my other post wouldn't let me edit again).  Can you buy a used trailer and move onto mom's property?  Or add on to her home/add an apartment, etc.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 11, 2013, 10:49:20 AM
I realize any money I put into the trailer I won't get back.

Except for improvements that lower your energy and other utility costs.  These can be significant savings.  These can definately be "investments."  Just prioritize best bang for the buck type things first.  Also, with an acre of land you can do some great vegetable growing and chicken raising, but that's for another post!

Also, if they hire a Realtor their costs go up.  They should work with you now, but often when you have multiple owners (siblings) they all want a certain amount that add up to higher than the property is worth.  I see that often.  Make up your mind to walk away at a certain price point - no attachment to it either way - and that may help remove the emotion from this.  I love emotions, but not when purchasing a property.  They tend to cloud things up a lot (not thinking clearly in other words).

Good luck.

We have a garden now and would definitely have one if we moved there! My mom has a much larger garden and has chickens :)

Yeah, that was my first thought about them hiring a Realtor. Surely they know that. I was really hoping that they would just want to hurry up and offload this property since they have been dealing with it for the past 3 years, probate and all. And it's just not worth a whole lot.

On more thing (my other post wouldn't let me edit again).  Can you buy a used trailer and move onto mom's property?  Or add on to her home/add an apartment, etc.

Moving a trailer onto their land was actually offered to us by them, if this property doesn't work out. It would be significantly cheaper, but my husband is kind of against it. See, we live in a house that was bought by his parents for us to live in (we do pay rent. Although we pay probably 1/3 of the market value). And he feels that if we put a trailer on my parents property, that we'd still be dependent on a set of parents. But, I guess my mom loaning us several thousand dollars to get the other property is okay, lol. Irony.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rollin on June 11, 2013, 07:21:51 PM
...he feels that if we put a trailer on my parents property, that we'd still be dependent on a set of parents. But, I guess my mom loaning us several thousand dollars to get the other property is okay, lol. Irony.

A man's pride is a funny thing (assuming that is what you are referring to).  However, if it is offered (the trailer on mom's property) and you can save a lot of cash on the side it may get you to another (more private/independent) place quicker.  Also, being close to relatives can be a good thing if handled properly (if you don't get caught up in all the old family BS).  He can "repay" her by helping out on the property - being the "man" when it comes to stuff she can't do or has to pay someone else to do.  I guess I wouldn't have an issue with it if it were me - if I had an end point or goal to put aside all that would be saved for a better place or a better stash or financial independence, etc.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 12, 2013, 10:28:55 AM
...he feels that if we put a trailer on my parents property, that we'd still be dependent on a set of parents. But, I guess my mom loaning us several thousand dollars to get the other property is okay, lol. Irony.

A man's pride is a funny thing (assuming that is what you are referring to).  However, if it is offered (the trailer on mom's property) and you can save a lot of cash on the side it may get you to another (more private/independent) place quicker.  Also, being close to relatives can be a good thing if handled properly (if you don't get caught up in all the old family BS).  He can "repay" her by helping out on the property - being the "man" when it comes to stuff she can't do or has to pay someone else to do.  I guess I wouldn't have an issue with it if it were me - if I had an end point or goal to put aside all that would be saved for a better place or a better stash or financial independence, etc.

Hell, a woman's pride (well, at least mine) is greater than his most of the time! But yes, I feel that taking my parents up on their offer would be financially quicker. And they watch our son most of the time. But there is usually some kind of drama that I'm trying to learn to handle/ignore.

I've been looking at free/nearly free trailers on craigslist that just have to be moved. We would also have to put a well and septic tank in.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Spork on June 12, 2013, 10:35:18 AM
I've been looking at free/nearly free trailers on craigslist that just have to be moved. We would also have to put a well and septic tank in.

I don't mean to get you worried, but: have you asked neighbors about the expected cost of well/septic?  These can either be "not bad" or "holy crap" depending on your location.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 12, 2013, 11:16:41 AM
I've been looking at free/nearly free trailers on craigslist that just have to be moved. We would also have to put a well and septic tank in.

I don't mean to get you worried, but: have you asked neighbors about the expected cost of well/septic?  These can either be "not bad" or "holy crap" depending on your location.

I haven't. My parents have a well & septic but it was there when they bought the house. I do figure that it would cost a fairly decent amount. If I feel that we're going to go this way, I'll definitely get some estimates before I commit to purchasing a trailer.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 17, 2013, 08:53:22 AM
It looks like the owners are going to try to be greedy. She said they are asking $25K for the property. I told her good luck.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on June 17, 2013, 09:32:37 AM
It looks like the owners are going to try to be greedy. She said they are asking $25K for the property. I told her good luck.

Good for you for sticking to your goals! Maybe you will be able it for the price you want in a few months, after they realize they can't move it for that much.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 17, 2013, 09:48:37 AM
It looks like the owners are going to try to be greedy. She said they are asking $25K for the property. I told her good luck.

Good for you for sticking to your goals! Maybe you will be able it for the price you want in a few months, after they realize they can't move it for that much.

Our top price is $20K. So, I just messaged her and offered that. She says she will ask her brothers. No way I'm going over that. Funny thing is that her son is in real estate...

I was in real estate myself a few years ago and $20K is the absolute tops. I hate even going that high. That's $10K we have to repay my parents. BUT we will be able to pay that off extremely fast.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 17, 2013, 01:58:50 PM
Good luck, and good for you for sticking to your guns.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: FrugalZony on June 17, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
I hope they come to senses!!
I understand you probably want to move quickly and realize you offered 20K already,
but I would have even left it at the 15K for a couple of weeks to see what they are saying
and let them think it over, in the meantime spread rumors about prospecting options
on your Moms property
Let them list it and see that there will be little response....and then move in with like 17k

In any case good luck!!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 18, 2013, 08:30:31 AM
I hope they come to senses!!
I understand you probably want to move quickly and realize you offered 20K already,
but I would have even left it at the 15K for a couple of weeks to see what they are saying
and let them think it over, in the meantime spread rumors about prospecting options
on your Moms property
Let them list it and see that there will be little response....and then move in with like 17k

In any case good luck!!

I like that! :D  BUT, they have accepted the $20K! I'm freaking out, lol. I expected them to hold to the $25K.

We will have to borrow about $10K from my mom, but with the lowered monthly expenses (barring any major repairs that need to be made to the trailer for safety reasons), we should have her paid back in 7ish months.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: FrugalZony on June 18, 2013, 08:51:56 AM
YAY! Congrats!
So you are paying a bit more, but moving quickly!
I would do thourough inspection and if there's ANYTHING major, I would renegotiate ;)
Good luck!!!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 18, 2013, 10:27:55 AM
YAY! Congrats!
So you are paying a bit more, but moving quickly!
I would do thourough inspection and if there's ANYTHING major, I would renegotiate ;)
Good luck!!!

Thanks!! Yep, I'm going to get a trusted home inspector out there soon to see if there's anything major that needs to be done asap. If it's super major, then renegotiating will be done. But, from my amateur knowledge, so far, I didn't see/feel anything that was an immediate concern. Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 18, 2013, 10:32:16 AM
Congratulations! I hope all goes well with the inspection.

They know no one else would buy! Good job calling their bluff.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 18, 2013, 11:47:09 AM
Congratulations! I hope all goes well with the inspection.

They know no one else would buy! Good job calling their bluff.

Thanks! Us too!

Side note: My husband went ahead and called his mom to give her a heads up that we will be moving in a couple/few months so they could be prepared to re-rent this house out (remember, they are the owners). I told him to be prepared for snark. And snark there was! "Well, if that's how y'all want to live the rest of your life.." LOL. Well yeah. Financially independent is absolutely how I want to live my life. Tons and tons of snark. He's pretty upset about it right now. But HE knows this is the best path for us right now.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 19, 2013, 10:40:54 AM
I have a little more ranting to do.

Now his 17 year old brother thinks he KNOWS EVERYTHING. "What if you lose your job?" Well, we would have significantly less monthly expenses, we will own the property (no rent or mortgage), and we could live off of my (part time) paycheck. How does his family not see this as a win? I don't get it at all.

And his brother is telling us to just "keep up with the chores". Yup. Sure thing. This house is 2100-2200 sq ft. My husband works 12 hour swing shifts. I chase a toddler all day then go to work for 5-6 hours 5 days a week (and cook dinner every night). Ugh. I want to throat punch him. He sits in front of the TV all day and plays video games. He always has something to say about everything. He doesn't have a job or responsibilities. Typical teenager, I know. It just irks me that they cannot see how awesome this is going to be for us.

And my husband is going for his pre-employment testing next week. FINALLY. After being a temp for over 2 years, he is finally starting the process to get hired. More win!

Thanks for letting me vent.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 21, 2013, 09:43:08 AM
The seller's should have the contract ready today. I won't be able to meet them until tomorrow though. I'm going to see if they will at least email me a copy so I can go over it first and make sure everything is alright. I haven't moved money from our Roth's yet, just in case this doesn't go through. But I will need ample time to transfer everything and then get a certified check from the bank for closing. And I have the number for the home inspector I want to use.

*crosses fingers* Hoping everything is smooth from here on out. Well, as smooth as buying a house can go anyway.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 21, 2013, 09:49:35 AM
Don't sign a contract the sellers or their attorney have written without getting an attorney of your own to go over it!

You also need a title search to be sure there are no outstanding liens on the property you don't know about.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 21, 2013, 09:54:43 AM
Don't sign a contract the sellers or their attorney have written without getting an attorney of your own to go over it!

You also need a title search to be sure there are no outstanding liens on the property you don't know about.

Thank you! Do I just call up a real estate attorney?
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 21, 2013, 10:06:36 AM
You know, I don't know the logistics. I've always had a bank involved, and they handled that. I'm sure someone here can tell you how to get the ball rolling, though.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: olivia on June 21, 2013, 11:26:26 AM
Don't sign a contract the sellers or their attorney have written without getting an attorney of your own to go over it!

You also need a title search to be sure there are no outstanding liens on the property you don't know about.

Thank you! Do I just call up a real estate attorney?

Yes, you can hire just a real estate attorney.  That's what my brother did when he didn't use a realtor.  He actually saved a ton of money by not using a realtor to sell.  The one good thing about using a realtor when you buy is that the seller covers their costs, at least in my state. 

Good luck-I hope everything works out!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 21, 2013, 01:53:31 PM
Don't sign a contract the sellers or their attorney have written without getting an attorney of your own to go over it!

You also need a title search to be sure there are no outstanding liens on the property you don't know about.

Thank you! Do I just call up a real estate attorney?

Yes, you can hire just a real estate attorney.  That's what my brother did when he didn't use a realtor.  He actually saved a ton of money by not using a realtor to sell.  The one good thing about using a realtor when you buy is that the seller covers their costs, at least in my state. 

Good luck-I hope everything works out!

Awesome. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 23, 2013, 01:10:48 PM
This is getting seriously ridiculous. She will not let us take the contract for an attorney to look it over. She keeps saying it's a standard contract, legally binding. I KNOW IT'S LEGALLY BINDING. THAT'S WHY I WANT AN ATTORNEY TO LOOK IT OVER. But then she tells me that maybe I just want to get the attorney to write a contract. What? She's being extremely snarky about this. I have finally asked a realtor friend to be our buyer's agent. I am so tired of dealing with her. And she was asking for a deposit, but never told me an amount. I have to move some money around to write a check and she hasn't given me any time to do that.

It just feels like they are trying to pull a fast one on a young, unsuspecting couple. I will not be taken advantage of.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: FrugalZony on June 23, 2013, 07:56:50 PM
Glad you are doing the right thing!
I don't think they have a ton of other options
If they are not comfortable with you reviewing the contract without an attorneys advice, what do they have to hide?
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on June 24, 2013, 01:37:07 AM
.

It just feels like they are trying to pull a fast one on a young, unsuspecting couple. I will not be taken advantage of.

They are trying something, that's for sure. Don't let them get away with it!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 24, 2013, 12:04:12 PM
The ONLY thing I can think of is that they would try to sneak in the contract that it is land only or something crazy like that. Or maybe it's just their ignorance of real estate. Either way. I met with my realtor friend this morning and drew up our own contract. Now I don't have to deal with her anymore and we can get this show on the road the right way! They (there's 3 siblings) have until Sunday to sign it. Plenty of time for all of them.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 28, 2013, 10:28:23 AM
Still waiting. They do have until Sunday to sign.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: FrugalZony on June 28, 2013, 12:21:15 PM
keeping fingers crossed
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on June 29, 2013, 08:23:41 AM
Thank you :)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Cinder on July 01, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
What's the news? How did sunday go?
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 01, 2013, 08:06:13 AM
My agent had to correct her last name (she recently got divorced and went back to her maiden name) but he expects it back today. She contacted him yesterday and asked the best way to get it back to him. So, it sounds as if we have an accepted contract. I will update as soon as I hear for sure!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 02, 2013, 10:05:16 AM
WE HAVE A SIGNED CONTRACT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!

And I have a new little black kitty!

I have submitted requests to get utilities turned on for the inspection. That should happen next week.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on July 02, 2013, 12:21:33 PM
Congratulations!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: FrugalZony on July 02, 2013, 12:59:50 PM
YAY, congrats on both the new house and the new home owner, aka kittie ;)
I love black cats!!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 07, 2013, 11:41:37 AM
Thanks!!

My folks said they saw power trucks over there yesterday, so I'm assuming the power is on. The water should be on by Monday. BUT, the inspection guy can't get out there until the 15th. And that's the last day of our 15 day inspection period. That's cutting it pretty close since our closing is scheduled for the 19th.

I have been researching and dreaming about the remodeling I want to do :) It is going to be the most awesome looking 1979 trailer you've ever seen :)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on July 07, 2013, 12:06:39 PM
I think you'd better see if your agent can get the inspection period extended because of the inspection not being possible without power. If they'd wanted to sell quickly, they should have had the power turned on. But same day is not really enough time, especially if you find yourself faced with a tough decision. It would be  entirely reasonable to extend it to 15 days from the date the power was turned on and thus, inspection became possible.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 07, 2013, 03:05:42 PM
The power and water will be on for a week before the inspection guy can get there. I do hope something falls through so he can get out there sooner than the 15th. And I work evenings so I won't really be able to look through the report until around midnight that night. Even if we extend the inspection period a couple days just so we can review the report and talk with the inspector if there were any huge concerns, I'd be fine with that.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on July 07, 2013, 04:11:21 PM
All that makes perfect sense from your perspective, but you want to present it in a way that makes so much sense from the seller's perspective that they can't see any good way to refuse. 15 days from the power coming on should make that kind of sense. They didn't keep the power on; the inspection can't be done without power.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 07, 2013, 08:25:49 PM
True. I'll see what I can do, but we're supposed to close on the 19th.

I am just terrified that they are going to back out if we change the closing date. I don't think they can, but I'm not sure. Gah.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 18, 2013, 09:47:04 AM
Update:
The inspection went about as I expected. Only one "surprise" really. The breaker box panel needs to be replaced. It's made by a company that was involved in a class action settlement for knowingly selling faulty panels. The inspector showed me a few that don't sit right, and they spark :/ He said it would probably cost $1500-$3000 depending on the electrician. And no, the sellers won't budge on the selling price, nor will they fix this issue. I don't much care. This is the first thing we have to get done. Second, is repairing the plumbing. Most of the sinks are just missing some connections, and the toilets have to be reconnected. No big deal. Third, the a/c doesn't work. Not a huge deal, but the trailer does have aluminum siding and it was a million degrees in there the other day. It was actually cooler outside. Hopefully it only needs a recharge, and not a new unit.

So, any mustachians around the Upstate SC area that can handle the breaker box panel and a/c?

Our closing is scheduled for 3pm tomorrow. Then I will be spending every weekend and probably most days before work over there cleaning it out (most of the original owner's stuff is still there), and cleaning it top to bottom. Then doing the plumbing, etc. We hope to actually move in within a month.

I can't wait to post our monthly spending after we move. I have a mock up one and it is freaking fantastic. Also, there is about to be a supervisor position open at my job. Part time, which is what I am now. I don't want to be full time. I know I am a top candidate at my location, but it might be a company wide posting. Which would suck, but it's an interview position and I know our operation. It's really manager's choice. *Fingers crossed*
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on July 18, 2013, 09:29:06 PM
Fingers crossed on the job!

Just don't move into the trailer without fixing the breaker box!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 19, 2013, 08:55:05 AM
Thanks!

And yeah, we will get that fixed asap for sure!

Update: There's an issue with the easement. There hasn't been a survey since the 50's and the attorney can't tell where the driveway is. On the tax map, it appears to be on my mom's property. But on the old plat, it appears to be split between my mom's and the neighbors. So, we have to have a survey done to actually determine the easement. And then that has to be filed. Our parcel is technically landlocked I think. My parent's will just have to sign a paper agreeing the use of the easement on their property (if it's 100% on their property). Not a huge deal, just more money upfront with paying for the survey. Our new closing date is on Wednesday now.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on July 19, 2013, 10:06:03 AM
Thanks!

And yeah, we will get that fixed asap for sure!

Update: There's an issue with the easement. There hasn't been a survey since the 50's and the attorney can't tell where the driveway is. On the tax map, it appears to be on my mom's property. But on the old plat, it appears to be split between my mom's and the neighbors. So, we have to have a survey done to actually determine the easement. And then that has to be filed. Our parcel is technically landlocked I think. My parent's will just have to sign a paper agreeing the use of the easement on their property (if it's 100% on their property). Not a huge deal, just more money upfront with paying for the survey. Our new closing date is on Wednesday now.

Is there any way to negotiate down your purchase price because you're not actually getting what they sold you? (e.g., you're not getting the driveway -- just a right of use, which can be revoked for the next owner; thus, reducing the value of the land) Your attorney would know the answer to this.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 19, 2013, 10:13:52 AM
Thanks!

And yeah, we will get that fixed asap for sure!

Update: There's an issue with the easement. There hasn't been a survey since the 50's and the attorney can't tell where the driveway is. On the tax map, it appears to be on my mom's property. But on the old plat, it appears to be split between my mom's and the neighbors. So, we have to have a survey done to actually determine the easement. And then that has to be filed. Our parcel is technically landlocked I think. My parent's will just have to sign a paper agreeing the use of the easement on their property (if it's 100% on their property). Not a huge deal, just more money upfront with paying for the survey. Our new closing date is on Wednesday now.

Is there any way to negotiate down your purchase price because you're not actually getting what they sold you? (e.g., you're not getting the driveway -- just a right of use, which can be revoked for the next owner; thus, reducing the value of the land) Your attorney would know the answer to this.

I wish. They absolutely will not budge on the price, at all. Even with the breaker box having to be replaced (an expense that may cost us up to $3K) asap, they wouldn't even come down $1K. My husband and I were thinking that maybe my parent's could sell us the portion of their land that has the driveway on it. That way there are no problems later on down the road.
From what I understood talking to the attorney yesterday, after he files the right of easement, then it's a legal thing. As long as it's filed then it's legal. Now, he said he WOULD close the deal without us having a new survey and all that, but we wouldn't have title insurance, and of course, the easement issue would come up when either we sold our property, or my parent's sold theirs.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on July 19, 2013, 11:24:11 AM
Thanks!

And yeah, we will get that fixed asap for sure!

Update: There's an issue with the easement. There hasn't been a survey since the 50's and the attorney can't tell where the driveway is. On the tax map, it appears to be on my mom's property. But on the old plat, it appears to be split between my mom's and the neighbors. So, we have to have a survey done to actually determine the easement. And then that has to be filed. Our parcel is technically landlocked I think. My parent's will just have to sign a paper agreeing the use of the easement on their property (if it's 100% on their property). Not a huge deal, just more money upfront with paying for the survey. Our new closing date is on Wednesday now.

Is there any way to negotiate down your purchase price because you're not actually getting what they sold you? (e.g., you're not getting the driveway -- just a right of use, which can be revoked for the next owner; thus, reducing the value of the land) Your attorney would know the answer to this.

I wish. They absolutely will not budge on the price, at all. Even with the breaker box having to be replaced (an expense that may cost us up to $3K) asap, they wouldn't even come down $1K. My husband and I were thinking that maybe my parent's could sell us the portion of their land that has the driveway on it. That way there are no problems later on down the road.
From what I understood talking to the attorney yesterday, after he files the right of easement, then it's a legal thing. As long as it's filed then it's legal. Now, he said he WOULD close the deal without us having a new survey and all that, but we wouldn't have title insurance, and of course, the easement issue would come up when either we sold our property, or my parent's sold theirs.

You definitely don't want a cloud on your title so big that you couldn't get title insurance. When he says the easement will be legal, does he mean that your parents couldn't ever revoke it?

I just wonder if you're buying something you're going to regret later -- with the breaker issue and the easement, it just seems like the value of the purchase is getting further and further away from what you're paying for it. Of course they don't want to come down on the price, but you don't want to pay more than what it's worth.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on July 19, 2013, 06:57:35 PM
Thanks!

And yeah, we will get that fixed asap for sure!

Update: There's an issue with the easement. There hasn't been a survey since the 50's and the attorney can't tell where the driveway is. On the tax map, it appears to be on my mom's property. But on the old plat, it appears to be split between my mom's and the neighbors. So, we have to have a survey done to actually determine the easement. And then that has to be filed. Our parcel is technically landlocked I think. My parent's will just have to sign a paper agreeing the use of the easement on their property (if it's 100% on their property). Not a huge deal, just more money upfront with paying for the survey. Our new closing date is on Wednesday now.

Is there any way to negotiate down your purchase price because you're not actually getting what they sold you? (e.g., you're not getting the driveway -- just a right of use, which can be revoked for the next owner; thus, reducing the value of the land) Your attorney would know the answer to this.

I wish. They absolutely will not budge on the price, at all. Even with the breaker box having to be replaced (an expense that may cost us up to $3K) asap, they wouldn't even come down $1K. My husband and I were thinking that maybe my parent's could sell us the portion of their land that has the driveway on it. That way there are no problems later on down the road.
From what I understood talking to the attorney yesterday, after he files the right of easement, then it's a legal thing. As long as it's filed then it's legal. Now, he said he WOULD close the deal without us having a new survey and all that, but we wouldn't have title insurance, and of course, the easement issue would come up when either we sold our property, or my parent's sold theirs.

You definitely don't want a cloud on your title so big that you couldn't get title insurance. When he says the easement will be legal, does he mean that your parents couldn't ever revoke it?

I just wonder if you're buying something you're going to regret later -- with the breaker issue and the easement, it just seems like the value of the purchase is getting further and further away from what you're paying for it. Of course they don't want to come down on the price, but you don't want to pay more than what it's worth.

Ditto this. Furthermore, they absolutely can't sell it to anyone else if its landlocked. They know that; they're hoping you don't know it. Can you stand to wait them out for a couple of months? If you can, they will come down; landlocked by your parents' land, it's worthless to anyone but you.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: TrulyStashin on July 19, 2013, 09:53:20 PM
Thanks!

And yeah, we will get that fixed asap for sure!

Update: There's an issue with the easement. There hasn't been a survey since the 50's and the attorney can't tell where the driveway is. On the tax map, it appears to be on my mom's property. But on the old plat, it appears to be split between my mom's and the neighbors. So, we have to have a survey done to actually determine the easement. And then that has to be filed. Our parcel is technically landlocked I think. My parent's will just have to sign a paper agreeing the use of the easement on their property (if it's 100% on their property). Not a huge deal, just more money upfront with paying for the survey. Our new closing date is on Wednesday now.

Is there any way to negotiate down your purchase price because you're not actually getting what they sold you? (e.g., you're not getting the driveway -- just a right of use, which can be revoked for the next owner; thus, reducing the value of the land) Your attorney would know the answer to this.

I wish. They absolutely will not budge on the price, at all. Even with the breaker box having to be replaced (an expense that may cost us up to $3K) asap, they wouldn't even come down $1K. My husband and I were thinking that maybe my parent's could sell us the portion of their land that has the driveway on it. That way there are no problems later on down the road.
From what I understood talking to the attorney yesterday, after he files the right of easement, then it's a legal thing. As long as it's filed then it's legal. Now, he said he WOULD close the deal without us having a new survey and all that, but we wouldn't have title insurance, and of course, the easement issue would come up when either we sold our property, or my parent's sold theirs.

You definitely don't want a cloud on your title so big that you couldn't get title insurance. When he says the easement will be legal, does he mean that your parents couldn't ever revoke it?

I just wonder if you're buying something you're going to regret later -- with the breaker issue and the easement, it just seems like the value of the purchase is getting further and further away from what you're paying for it. Of course they don't want to come down on the price, but you don't want to pay more than what it's worth.

Ditto this. Furthermore, they absolutely can't sell it to anyone else if its landlocked. They know that; they're hoping you don't know it. Can you stand to wait them out for a couple of months? If you can, they will come down; landlocked by your parents' land, it's worthless to anyone but you.

This is absolutely true.  The sellers do not have "marketable title" and cannot sell this property unless they fix the easement issue.  Play hardball and tell them to shove it -- not having marketable title voids the contract.   Name your price at $10k and walk away when they say no.  They'll call you, I can almost guarantee it, and if by some chance they don't then you've avoided trying to fix an enormous headache of legal and practical problems.   Be strong.  You hold all the cards and they have nothing but a liability -- costing them in upkeep and taxes.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: FrugalZony on July 19, 2013, 11:01:03 PM
Thanks!

And yeah, we will get that fixed asap for sure!

Update: There's an issue with the easement. There hasn't been a survey since the 50's and the attorney can't tell where the driveway is. On the tax map, it appears to be on my mom's property. But on the old plat, it appears to be split between my mom's and the neighbors. So, we have to have a survey done to actually determine the easement. And then that has to be filed. Our parcel is technically landlocked I think. My parent's will just have to sign a paper agreeing the use of the easement on their property (if it's 100% on their property). Not a huge deal, just more money upfront with paying for the survey. Our new closing date is on Wednesday now.

Is there any way to negotiate down your purchase price because you're not actually getting what they sold you? (e.g., you're not getting the driveway -- just a right of use, which can be revoked for the next owner; thus, reducing the value of the land) Your attorney would know the answer to this.

I wish. They absolutely will not budge on the price, at all. Even with the breaker box having to be replaced (an expense that may cost us up to $3K) asap, they wouldn't even come down $1K. My husband and I were thinking that maybe my parent's could sell us the portion of their land that has the driveway on it. That way there are no problems later on down the road.
From what I understood talking to the attorney yesterday, after he files the right of easement, then it's a legal thing. As long as it's filed then it's legal. Now, he said he WOULD close the deal without us having a new survey and all that, but we wouldn't have title insurance, and of course, the easement issue would come up when either we sold our property, or my parent's sold theirs.

You definitely don't want a cloud on your title so big that you couldn't get title insurance. When he says the easement will be legal, does he mean that your parents couldn't ever revoke it?

I just wonder if you're buying something you're going to regret later -- with the breaker issue and the easement, it just seems like the value of the purchase is getting further and further away from what you're paying for it. Of course they don't want to come down on the price, but you don't want to pay more than what it's worth.

Ditto this. Furthermore, they absolutely can't sell it to anyone else if its landlocked. They know that; they're hoping you don't know it. Can you stand to wait them out for a couple of months? If you can, they will come down; landlocked by your parents' land, it's worthless to anyone but you.

This is absolutely true.  The sellers do not have "marketable title" and cannot sell this property unless they fix the easement issue.  Play hardball and tell them to shove it -- not having marketable title voids the contract.   Name your price at $10k and walk away when they say no.  They'll call you, I can almost guarantee it, and if by some chance they don't then you've avoided trying to fix an enormous headache of legal and practical problems.   Be strong.  You hold all the cards and they have nothing but a liability -- costing them in upkeep and taxes.

+1 I was thinking the same thing!
Really what other options do they have!
I know you want this bad and are under time pressure. But 4000-5000$ are probably worth the wait.
Tell them, this is all too much and way more than you thought.
You'd be willing to offer 16 k and would take care of all the legal stuff on top of that and save them the hassle
Tell them, that there is enough space on your parents property so you can put a trailer there
let them mull over it for a couple of weeks and then see what happens....
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 20, 2013, 07:46:16 AM
Quick reply to y'all since I just woke up.

They know about the easement issue. It came up earlier this year when it was in probate. All I need is a survey ($400-$500) and my attorney said he would wave their filing fee ($200). I realize expenses keep piling up with this, the breaker box etc. Do I think the property is still worth $20K? Taking out the emotional aspect of it...maybe, on the very top end. But that's just it. We nearly can't afford to not purchase this property. We are going to save at least $200 month on gas alone (yeah, we spend $400 now) along with the extremely reduced utilities, and not to mention smaller house for us to keep clean. I wish we were in a better negotiating position.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on July 20, 2013, 07:52:38 AM
Quick reply to y'all since I just woke up.

They know about the easement issue. It came up earlier this year when it was in probate. All I need is a survey ($400-$500) and my attorney said he would wave their filing fee ($200). I realize expenses keep piling up with this, the breaker box etc. Do I think the property is still worth $20K? Taking out the emotional aspect of it...maybe, on the very top end. But that's just it. We nearly can't afford to not purchase this property. We are going to save at least $200 month on gas alone (yeah, we spend $400 now) along with the extremely reduced utilities, and not to mention smaller house for us to keep clean. I wish we were in a better negotiating position.

You know for sure about the gas, but utilities? Those are likely to be high when the weather is bad. No one is suggesting you don't buy the place. It looks from here, though, like you could buy the place a little later for a lot less. Ultimately, you have to decide, and it may be worth it to you to spend the $20k, but friendly Internet outsiders think you don't have to. :)

Let us know, and good luck either way!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 20, 2013, 09:13:33 AM
Quick reply to y'all since I just woke up.

They know about the easement issue. It came up earlier this year when it was in probate. All I need is a survey ($400-$500) and my attorney said he would wave their filing fee ($200). I realize expenses keep piling up with this, the breaker box etc. Do I think the property is still worth $20K? Taking out the emotional aspect of it...maybe, on the very top end. But that's just it. We nearly can't afford to not purchase this property. We are going to save at least $200 month on gas alone (yeah, we spend $400 now) along with the extremely reduced utilities, and not to mention smaller house for us to keep clean. I wish we were in a better negotiating position.

You know for sure about the gas, but utilities? Those are likely to be high when the weather is bad. No one is suggesting you don't buy the place. It looks from here, though, like you could buy the place a little later for a lot less. Ultimately, you have to decide, and it may be worth it to you to spend the $20k, but friendly Internet outsiders think you don't have to. :)

Let us know, and good luck either way!

Current house is 2100ish sq ft. Average utilities (water, sewer, electric, and gas) run around $255 (we actually pay $349 b/c we are on the equal payment plan for electric but are running a $600 credit. We actually use about $100-$125 per month).
Trailer is less than 1,000sq ft. We will have water and electric out there. No sewer or gas. I'm figuring that the water will be like $25 or so (our current bill is only about $17 just for water. The rest is sewer and reclamation charges), and I know electric will be kind of a wild card since I'm not sure how well the trailer is insulated, but I'm figuring $50-$75 depending on that. Possibly a bit higher in the winter, but it does have a fireplace which would supplement the electric.

I know y'all are just trying to help :) I wish the seller's were a little more reasonable. I already told my attorney to get the survey in motion. But, that really should be the seller's cost. I'm going to talk to my agent and see if he will push them for that.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: BPA on July 20, 2013, 11:39:13 AM
So, how are things going?

And I'll bet anything that the 17 year old is just parenting what he hears his parents say.

He'll have his turn to be aggravated when they meddle in his life.  :)

Edit:  Didn't realize this is a two page thread.  Duh.  I'll blame it on cycling brain.  Carry on.  ;)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on July 20, 2013, 01:25:24 PM
Quick reply to y'all since I just woke up.

They know about the easement issue. It came up earlier this year when it was in probate. All I need is a survey ($400-$500) and my attorney said he would wave their filing fee ($200). I realize expenses keep piling up with this, the breaker box etc. Do I think the property is still worth $20K? Taking out the emotional aspect of it...maybe, on the very top end. But that's just it. We nearly can't afford to not purchase this property. We are going to save at least $200 month on gas alone (yeah, we spend $400 now) along with the extremely reduced utilities, and not to mention smaller house for us to keep clean. I wish we were in a better negotiating position.

You know for sure about the gas, but utilities? Those are likely to be high when the weather is bad. No one is suggesting you don't buy the place. It looks from here, though, like you could buy the place a little later for a lot less. Ultimately, you have to decide, and it may be worth it to you to spend the $20k, but friendly Internet outsiders think you don't have to. :)

Let us know, and good luck either way!

Current house is 2100ish sq ft. Average utilities (water, sewer, electric, and gas) run around $255 (we actually pay $349 b/c we are on the equal payment plan for electric but are running a $600 credit. We actually use about $100-$125 per month).
Trailer is less than 1,000sq ft. We will have water and electric out there. No sewer or gas. I'm figuring that the water will be like $25 or so (our current bill is only about $17 just for water. The rest is sewer and reclamation charges), and I know electric will be kind of a wild card since I'm not sure how well the trailer is insulated, but I'm figuring $50-$75 depending on that. Possibly a bit higher in the winter, but it does have a fireplace which would supplement the electric.

I know y'all are just trying to help :) I wish the seller's were a little more reasonable. I already told my attorney to get the survey in motion. But, that really should be the seller's cost. I'm going to talk to my agent and see if he will push them for that.

For heating without a fireplace in our old 12X60, we were at ~$150-200 a month at 8 cents per kwh. The place had once been poorly insulated but mostly wasn't anymore if that helps. AC ran $200 in July and August, partly because there was no shade at all on the roof. We could have cut that down more with higher temps, but probably not below $100 a month while preventing mold and heatstroke. But it was older than your place (1971) and likely had less insulation to begin with, and had probably had more leaks (which ruin insulation if it gets wet).

If you have better insulation and shade, your figures are probably valid. Anyway, best of luck regardless of what you decide. I know it's all an enormous PITA right now, but remember it's temporary.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on July 20, 2013, 07:42:22 PM
Quick reply to y'all since I just woke up.

They know about the easement issue. It came up earlier this year when it was in probate. All I need is a survey ($400-$500) and my attorney said he would wave their filing fee ($200). I realize expenses keep piling up with this, the breaker box etc. Do I think the property is still worth $20K? Taking out the emotional aspect of it...maybe, on the very top end. But that's just it. We nearly can't afford to not purchase this property. We are going to save at least $200 month on gas alone (yeah, we spend $400 now) along with the extremely reduced utilities, and not to mention smaller house for us to keep clean. I wish we were in a better negotiating position.

I *am* just trying to help, not be a jerk about it! Honestly, when I was offered my current job, some random internet strangers told me to negotiate my salary on my last job and I was scared sh!tless to do it, but it worked out.

That said, saving $200/mo on utilities will take a year to cover $2400 of the cost of the breaker box (I estimate on the high side until all is said and done). So, sweating it out on a nego, or cancelling the contract and coming back to the table in 3 months when they have no buyers is probably going to end up with a better deal for you -- you would be paying $600 in utilities over the 3 months, and hopefully saving $5k off the purchase price.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 21, 2013, 07:20:20 AM
Quick reply to y'all since I just woke up.

They know about the easement issue. It came up earlier this year when it was in probate. All I need is a survey ($400-$500) and my attorney said he would wave their filing fee ($200). I realize expenses keep piling up with this, the breaker box etc. Do I think the property is still worth $20K? Taking out the emotional aspect of it...maybe, on the very top end. But that's just it. We nearly can't afford to not purchase this property. We are going to save at least $200 month on gas alone (yeah, we spend $400 now) along with the extremely reduced utilities, and not to mention smaller house for us to keep clean. I wish we were in a better negotiating position.

I *am* just trying to help, not be a jerk about it! Honestly, when I was offered my current job, some random internet strangers told me to negotiate my salary on my last job and I was scared sh!tless to do it, but it worked out.

That said, saving $200/mo on utilities will take a year to cover $2400 of the cost of the breaker box (I estimate on the high side until all is said and done). So, sweating it out on a nego, or cancelling the contract and coming back to the table in 3 months when they have no buyers is probably going to end up with a better deal for you -- you would be paying $600 in utilities over the 3 months, and hopefully saving $5k off the purchase price.

I know you are! :) I'm also just scared shitless that they will get another buyer and we'll be shit out of luck. I did ask my realtor to see if he can get a copy of the appraisal. I cannot believe that the appraiser appraised that property at "just below $25K". If I'm going to cancel the contract though, I have to do it asap before the surveyor gets out there. And then we're still on the hook for the inspections ($435).

They don't have a realtor, which I think is what is screwing this whole deal. They are unrealistic. We're emotionally involved, they know that. My realtor said we could probably still back out b/c of the whole easement issue.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: BPA on July 21, 2013, 08:53:43 AM
Quick reply to y'all since I just woke up.

They know about the easement issue. It came up earlier this year when it was in probate. All I need is a survey ($400-$500) and my attorney said he would wave their filing fee ($200). I realize expenses keep piling up with this, the breaker box etc. Do I think the property is still worth $20K? Taking out the emotional aspect of it...maybe, on the very top end. But that's just it. We nearly can't afford to not purchase this property. We are going to save at least $200 month on gas alone (yeah, we spend $400 now) along with the extremely reduced utilities, and not to mention smaller house for us to keep clean. I wish we were in a better negotiating position.

I *am* just trying to help, not be a jerk about it! Honestly, when I was offered my current job, some random internet strangers told me to negotiate my salary on my last job and I was scared sh!tless to do it, but it worked out.

That said, saving $200/mo on utilities will take a year to cover $2400 of the cost of the breaker box (I estimate on the high side until all is said and done). So, sweating it out on a nego, or cancelling the contract and coming back to the table in 3 months when they have no buyers is probably going to end up with a better deal for you -- you would be paying $600 in utilities over the 3 months, and hopefully saving $5k off the purchase price.

I know you are! :) I'm also just scared shitless that they will get another buyer and we'll be shit out of luck. I did ask my realtor to see if he can get a copy of the appraisal. I cannot believe that the appraiser appraised that property at "just below $25K". If I'm going to cancel the contract though, I have to do it asap before the surveyor gets out there. And then we're still on the hook for the inspections ($435).

They don't have a realtor, which I think is what is screwing this whole deal. They are unrealistic. We're emotionally involved, they know that. My realtor said we could probably still back out b/c of the whole easement issue.

Oh no.  It's your life and I don't want to tell you what to do, but you didn't actually see the appraisal, you were going by their word?  And it's landlocked?

I have to be honest:  you are getting screwed.  If it were me, I'd be revoking all offers and looking for another place.  Who knows what else is going to crop up?
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 21, 2013, 09:05:37 AM
Quick reply to y'all since I just woke up.

They know about the easement issue. It came up earlier this year when it was in probate. All I need is a survey ($400-$500) and my attorney said he would wave their filing fee ($200). I realize expenses keep piling up with this, the breaker box etc. Do I think the property is still worth $20K? Taking out the emotional aspect of it...maybe, on the very top end. But that's just it. We nearly can't afford to not purchase this property. We are going to save at least $200 month on gas alone (yeah, we spend $400 now) along with the extremely reduced utilities, and not to mention smaller house for us to keep clean. I wish we were in a better negotiating position.

I *am* just trying to help, not be a jerk about it! Honestly, when I was offered my current job, some random internet strangers told me to negotiate my salary on my last job and I was scared sh!tless to do it, but it worked out.

That said, saving $200/mo on utilities will take a year to cover $2400 of the cost of the breaker box (I estimate on the high side until all is said and done). So, sweating it out on a nego, or cancelling the contract and coming back to the table in 3 months when they have no buyers is probably going to end up with a better deal for you -- you would be paying $600 in utilities over the 3 months, and hopefully saving $5k off the purchase price.

I know you are! :) I'm also just scared shitless that they will get another buyer and we'll be shit out of luck. I did ask my realtor to see if he can get a copy of the appraisal. I cannot believe that the appraiser appraised that property at "just below $25K". If I'm going to cancel the contract though, I have to do it asap before the surveyor gets out there. And then we're still on the hook for the inspections ($435).

They don't have a realtor, which I think is what is screwing this whole deal. They are unrealistic. We're emotionally involved, they know that. My realtor said we could probably still back out b/c of the whole easement issue.

Oh no.  It's your life and I don't want to tell you what to do, but you didn't actually see the appraisal, you were going by their word?  And it's landlocked?

I have to be honest:  you are getting screwed.  If it were me, I'd be revoking all offers and looking for another place.  Who knows what else is going to crop up?

I have this character flaw of actually trusting people. Bleh. I think I am going to demand we see the appraisal.
The main reason we are going after this property is b/c it's right beside my parent's place. With mine and my husband's work schedules, it is extremely convenient for child care. Currently there is nothing else for sale, or even for rent at a reasonable price, close to there.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: OzzieandHarriet on July 21, 2013, 09:21:15 AM
I would get out of this deal unless they come down on the price to cover the problems you have uncovered (breaker box, no A/C) AND pay for the costs of fixing the easement issue. Stick to your guns and don't get emotionally attached. Otherwise, it sounds like you would be stuck with an unsellable and possibly unliveable property. It's much, much easier to buy something than to sell it. Don't get fixated on what you've spent thus far -- sunk cost, learning experience.

How many more years are you going to need your parents to babysit? Is it worth it to saddle yourself with a white elephant for what is basically a short-term situation?
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 21, 2013, 09:29:44 AM
I would get out of this deal unless they come down on the price to cover the problems you have uncovered (breaker box, no A/C) AND pay for the costs of fixing the easement issue. Stick to your guns and don't get emotionally attached. Otherwise, it sounds like you would be stuck with an unsellable and possibly unliveable property. It's much, much easier to buy something than to sell it. Don't get fixated on what you've spent thus far -- sunk cost, learning experience.

How many more years are you going to need your parents to babysit? Is it worth it to saddle yourself with a white elephant for what is basically a short-term situation?

I think that's the way I'm leaning. I just emailed my realtor and told him that.
He just replied back to me that they don't have to give us a copy of the appraisal. If they don't and we want to know the appraisal price, we would have to pay for it. I am not paying for an appraisal on top of the survey, major repairs, inflated purchase price, etc.

The babysitting question can go many ways. I'm not sure we're going to use the public school system, but I haven't decided. He'll be 2 in October, so we still have a couple of years. My husband's schedule and mine overlap many times per month, but not daily.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: OzzieandHarriet on July 21, 2013, 09:35:34 AM
I would get out of this deal unless they come down on the price to cover the problems you have uncovered (breaker box, no A/C) AND pay for the costs of fixing the easement issue. Stick to your guns and don't get emotionally attached. Otherwise, it sounds like you would be stuck with an unsellable and possibly unliveable property. It's much, much easier to buy something than to sell it. Don't get fixated on what you've spent thus far -- sunk cost, learning experience.

How many more years are you going to need your parents to babysit? Is it worth it to saddle yourself with a white elephant for what is basically a short-term situation?

I think that's the way I'm leaning. I just emailed my realtor and told him that.
He just replied back to me that they don't have to give us a copy of the appraisal. If they don't and we want to know the appraisal price, we would have to pay for it. I am not paying for an appraisal on top of the survey, major repairs, inflated purchase price, etc.

The babysitting question can go many ways. I'm not sure we're going to use the public school system, but I haven't decided. He'll be 2 in October, so we still have a couple of years. My husband's schedule and mine overlap many times per month, but not daily.

Generally it's the buyer who gets an appraisal because it's required if you're taking out a mortgage. I must have missed why the sellers here felt the need to get an appraisal.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 21, 2013, 09:38:40 AM
I would get out of this deal unless they come down on the price to cover the problems you have uncovered (breaker box, no A/C) AND pay for the costs of fixing the easement issue. Stick to your guns and don't get emotionally attached. Otherwise, it sounds like you would be stuck with an unsellable and possibly unliveable property. It's much, much easier to buy something than to sell it. Don't get fixated on what you've spent thus far -- sunk cost, learning experience.

How many more years are you going to need your parents to babysit? Is it worth it to saddle yourself with a white elephant for what is basically a short-term situation?

I think that's the way I'm leaning. I just emailed my realtor and told him that.
He just replied back to me that they don't have to give us a copy of the appraisal. If they don't and we want to know the appraisal price, we would have to pay for it. I am not paying for an appraisal on top of the survey, major repairs, inflated purchase price, etc.

The babysitting question can go many ways. I'm not sure we're going to use the public school system, but I haven't decided. He'll be 2 in October, so we still have a couple of years. My husband's schedule and mine overlap many times per month, but not daily.

Generally it's the buyer who gets an appraisal because it's required if you're taking out a mortgage. I must have missed why the sellers here felt the need to get an appraisal.

Yeah, I know that, but it just pisses me off that they are being assholes. I haven't even posted some of the ridiculous stuff they've said/done. They got an appraisal to know what it was worth. It was their parent's property, and they passed.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: TrulyStashin on July 21, 2013, 09:51:26 AM
Real estate lawyer talking here . . .  if you decide to back out, the reason you should cite is "the title is not marketable."  This legal flaw caused by the easement issue voids the contract -- it is the most basic requirement of any seller of real property.  They have breached the contract, not you, so don't buy any argument that this is on you.

I'm sorry this hasn't worked out the way you hoped.  It truly would not surprise me, however, if you heard from them in a few months after they've been unable to fix the easement problem and sell it.  It's truly an albatross for them and reality will set in soon enough.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 21, 2013, 10:02:19 AM
Real estate lawyer talking here . . .  if you decide to back out, the reason you should cite is "the title is not marketable."  This legal flaw caused by the easement issue voids the contract -- it is the most basic requirement of any seller of real property.  They have breached the contract, not you, so don't buy any argument that this is on you.

I'm sorry this hasn't worked out the way you hoped.  It truly would not surprise me, however, if you heard from them in a few months after they've been unable to fix the easement problem and sell it.  It's truly an albatross for them and reality will set in soon enough.

Thank you :) I just got off the phone with my realtor and that was the phrase he used for us to back out, if they will not come off the price.

If they won't, then fine. They can't sell it w/o the easement issue fixed, and they won't get their $20K asking price either. I told him we'd wait a few months and then try again after they realize they can't sell it.

My parents could technically put up a gate on that driveway since it's on their property and not allow access.

Time to play hardball. I'm nearly 30 but look like I'm not quite out of my early 20's, and my husband is mid 20's and looks like he's early 20's too, so I'm sure they think we're stupid.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on July 22, 2013, 07:26:58 AM
Thank you :) I just got off the phone with my realtor and that was the phrase he used for us to back out, if they will not come off the price.

If they won't, then fine. They can't sell it w/o the easement issue fixed, and they won't get their $20K asking price either. I told him we'd wait a few months and then try again after they realize they can't sell it.

My parents could technically put up a gate on that driveway since it's on their property and not allow access.

Time to play hardball. I'm nearly 30 but look like I'm not quite out of my early 20's, and my husband is mid 20's and looks like he's early 20's too, so I'm sure they think we're stupid.

Good for you!

I walked away from a real estate contract, after shelling out $450. You know what? It was The Best $450 I Have Ever Spent. It saved us years of headaches and lost $$. I know it's hard to pull back from your dreams of how things are going to be after you move in, but it's important to keep the big picture in mind.

Which leads me to the question: If you wouldn't put your child in the public schools in that district, are there any school districts you would put him in? If so, are you planning to move in 3 years?
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 22, 2013, 07:49:24 AM
Thank you :) I just got off the phone with my realtor and that was the phrase he used for us to back out, if they will not come off the price.

If they won't, then fine. They can't sell it w/o the easement issue fixed, and they won't get their $20K asking price either. I told him we'd wait a few months and then try again after they realize they can't sell it.

My parents could technically put up a gate on that driveway since it's on their property and not allow access.

Time to play hardball. I'm nearly 30 but look like I'm not quite out of my early 20's, and my husband is mid 20's and looks like he's early 20's too, so I'm sure they think we're stupid.

Good for you!

I walked away from a real estate contract, after shelling out $450. You know what? It was The Best $450 I Have Ever Spent. It saved us years of headaches and lost $$. I know it's hard to pull back from your dreams of how things are going to be after you move in, but it's important to keep the big picture in mind.

Which leads me to the question: If you wouldn't put your child in the public schools in that district, are there any school districts you would put him in? If so, are you planning to move in 3 years?

It's too bad you can't see the future sometimes :)

I'm contemplating homeschooling, but I need to look at how involved that is and whatnot. The public school system is getting pretty ridiculous, but I'm also thinking about that K-12 online public school. I'm one for rules, but the rules that have come out around here in the last several years are just beyond ridiculous.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: MissStache on July 22, 2013, 09:07:35 AM
Oh man, I just stumbled on this thread and I am chewing my fingernails with anticipation- better than a novel :)

Can't wait to hear what happens!

(For the record, I hope our plucky heroine defeats the evil greedy siblings who are trying to trick her and they come crawling back in 2 months begging her to take the castle off their hands for $13K...And I hope her parents put up a gate!)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Redbeard on July 22, 2013, 09:31:22 AM
Real estate lawyer talking here . . .  if you decide to back out, the reason you should cite is "the title is not marketable."  This legal flaw caused by the easement issue voids the contract -- it is the most basic requirement of any seller of real property.  They have breached the contract, not you, so don't buy any argument that this is on you.

I'm sorry this hasn't worked out the way you hoped.  It truly would not surprise me, however, if you heard from them in a few months after they've been unable to fix the easement problem and sell it.  It's truly an albatross for them and reality will set in soon enough.

Thank you :) I just got off the phone with my realtor and that was the phrase he used for us to back out, if they will not come off the price.

If they won't, then fine. They can't sell it w/o the easement issue fixed, and they won't get their $20K asking price either. I told him we'd wait a few months and then try again after they realize they can't sell it.

My parents could technically put up a gate on that driveway since it's on their property and not allow access.

Time to play hardball. I'm nearly 30 but look like I'm not quite out of my early 20's, and my husband is mid 20's and looks like he's early 20's too, so I'm sure they think we're stupid.

Great job by you to walk away, even if you don't end up being able to purchase the place later. Separating your emotions from the facts can be extremely difficult, and real estate decisions have long-lasting effects. Also, great job by "friendly internet strangers" to point out things that might have been overlooked and give balanced perspectives. Best. Forums. Ever.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 22, 2013, 09:32:14 AM
Oh man, I just stumbled on this thread and I am chewing my fingernails with anticipation- better than a novel :)

Can't wait to hear what happens!

(For the record, I hope our plucky heroine defeats the evil greedy siblings who are trying to trick her and they come crawling back in 2 months begging her to take the castle off their hands for $13K...And I hope her parents put up a gate!)

Hahaha, omg! Awesome :)

Slight update: My mom called me all upset yesterday after she read my email of what was going on. This does make the situation a little more tense. She really, really, really, has her heart set on us living there. I mean, so do we, but man, I don't want the greedy siblings to win (i.e., us over pay). She was saying how they would pay for the breaker box to be replaced, etc. /Sigh.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on July 22, 2013, 09:40:26 AM
Oh man, I just stumbled on this thread and I am chewing my fingernails with anticipation- better than a novel :)

Can't wait to hear what happens!

(For the record, I hope our plucky heroine defeats the evil greedy siblings who are trying to trick her and they come crawling back in 2 months begging her to take the castle off their hands for $13K...And I hope her parents put up a gate!)

Hahaha, omg! Awesome :)

Slight update: My mom called me all upset yesterday after she read my email of what was going on. This does make the situation a little more tense. She really, really, really, has her heart set on us living there. I mean, so do we, but man, I don't want the greedy siblings to win (i.e., us over pay). She was saying how they would pay for the breaker box to be replaced, etc. /Sigh.

Tell her it will all work out for the best, and that she'll get some snuggle time with her grandson tonight when you come over to put up the gate :P

No, but seriously ... it will work out. You have an incredible amount of leverage and no one is going to buy that house without a way to get into it.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Hunny156 on July 22, 2013, 10:08:30 AM

Time to play hardball. I'm nearly 30 but look like I'm not quite out of my early 20's, and my husband is mid 20's and looks like he's early 20's too, so I'm sure they think we're stupid.

I'm so hooked on this story too, and I'm soo glad you backed out!  Hubby & I own rental properties, and we both look young for our age, so we often get this same assumption.  A few years back, we were renovating a unit and our realtor showed up w/a possible tenant.  We began speaking w/the prospective tenant, and he seemed interested, so he asked us where our Mom was.  We were puzzled by this comment, and quickly realized that the tenant assumed our realtor was our Mom, and we were just kids helping out!  When we informed them that we were the owners, you could just see the confusion on their face.

As for your situation, I have a similar one to share.  I looked at a duplex listed @ $70K.  Three kids trying to sell their deceased parents home.  They refused to do any clean out, they wouldn't even replace the hot water heater!  The place needed work, so we countered at $60K and waited weeks while they discussed the offer.

During that time, a pristine duplex came on the market, and we decided we wanted that instead.  Our realtor set a deadline of 5 PM that day for the kids to accept or decline the contract.  They came back at $68K.  We declined, so no deal.  We proceeded to purchase the other property.

Several months went by, and my realtor dropped a hint.  No one else was biting, even w/a price drop to $60K, so they were calling my realtor, trying to see if we were still interested.  We really weren't financially ready to buy another house, so my realtor told them we weren't interested.

Another month went by, and they called the realtor again, this time they were willing to go to $55K.  I decided to be a bit ballsy, so I told the realtor to have them call when they were willing to go to $40K.  We purchased it several weeks later for $42K!  Used a 401K loan to buy it, but at that price, it was a steal.

You will have a similar story to tell in the near future, just hang on and watch their greed falter them in the end.  ;)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zaga on July 22, 2013, 11:43:08 AM
I'm loving watching this story as well.

Small piece of advice, make sure our parents don't tell them how much you want this house!  In fact, tall your parents not to tell them anything, it could give them preceived bargaining power.  You don't want them to have that.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 22, 2013, 03:35:30 PM

Time to play hardball. I'm nearly 30 but look like I'm not quite out of my early 20's, and my husband is mid 20's and looks like he's early 20's too, so I'm sure they think we're stupid.

I'm so hooked on this story too, and I'm soo glad you backed out!  Hubby & I own rental properties, and we both look young for our age, so we often get this same assumption.  A few years back, we were renovating a unit and our realtor showed up w/a possible tenant.  We began speaking w/the prospective tenant, and he seemed interested, so he asked us where our Mom was.  We were puzzled by this comment, and quickly realized that the tenant assumed our realtor was our Mom, and we were just kids helping out!  When we informed them that we were the owners, you could just see the confusion on their face.

As for your situation, I have a similar one to share.  I looked at a duplex listed @ $70K.  Three kids trying to sell their deceased parents home.  They refused to do any clean out, they wouldn't even replace the hot water heater!  The place needed work, so we countered at $60K and waited weeks while they discussed the offer.

During that time, a pristine duplex came on the market, and we decided we wanted that instead.  Our realtor set a deadline of 5 PM that day for the kids to accept or decline the contract.  They came back at $68K.  We declined, so no deal.  We proceeded to purchase the other property.

Several months went by, and my realtor dropped a hint.  No one else was biting, even w/a price drop to $60K, so they were calling my realtor, trying to see if we were still interested.  We really weren't financially ready to buy another house, so my realtor told them we weren't interested.

Another month went by, and they called the realtor again, this time they were willing to go to $55K.  I decided to be a bit ballsy, so I told the realtor to have them call when they were willing to go to $40K.  We purchased it several weeks later for $42K!  Used a 401K loan to buy it, but at that price, it was a steal.

You will have a similar story to tell in the near future, just hang on and watch their greed falter them in the end.  ;)

Now that is a great story!! The sister has been messaging me on facebook and we've been talking. I mostly think it's her brother's that are being jerks, but oh well.

So, I'm on my lunch break at work and I just decided to see if anything else is for sale around my parent's place, and whatdoyouknow, there's a place on 7.3 acres just up the road for sale. We'd have to get a small mortgage but we have the 20% to put down on it. We're going to try to go see it tomorrow.

.....Everything happens for a reason (even if this one didn't work out, I feel there's a reason!)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on July 22, 2013, 05:01:04 PM
Here. Good luck on both places. Something good will come of this!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: FrugalZony on July 22, 2013, 05:13:49 PM
If they won't, then fine. They can't sell it w/o the easement issue fixed, and they won't get their $20K asking price either. I told him we'd wait a few months and then try again after they realize they can't sell it.

My parents could technically put up a gate on that driveway since it's on their property and not allow access.

Time to play hardball. I'm nearly 30 but look like I'm not quite out of my early 20's, and my husband is mid 20's and looks like he's early 20's too, so I'm sure they think we're stupid.

YAY!!! So relieved to read this!!
I am always checking with anticipation if there's an update on your story!!!
It will all work out!!
If your Mom is like mine I would not tell her you are playing hardball and this is all part of the strategy.
She might give it away.
Instead discuss other options with her, like putting an additional trailer on her property etc.
Before you know it the word will spread in town ;)
That said, your Mum might be completely different from mine ;)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Mini-Mer on July 23, 2013, 07:10:45 AM
This sounds like my grandparents' property - not a standard house in the 'burbs, potentially useful for the right person.  On the market for 5+ years.  If the dynamics are at all similar, this might be the scene at Chez Jerkbrother:

"Well, your aunt still wants to give your grandma's house away to the neighbor kid.  I keep telling them what we need to do is get a realtor and advertise.  They just want the money now, but if we hang in there, we'll get what the property is worth.  She never could be patient, I remember when she was six and... You know, none of my siblings have ever understood business." 

In other words, it's very likely that some of the objections aren't things you can negotiate (unless you throw in family counseling).   Good call on walking away! 
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 24, 2013, 12:58:41 PM
Okay, we checked out that other house and it is definitely a no go :( It's original 1942 with the 2 prong outlets, lead based paint, floor plan that doesn't flow at all. Oh well.

Now we're trying to decide whether to go ahead and purchase a home since we already took the money out of our Roth's, or put it back in and max out for this year (and pay the penalty since we didn't purchase a house?) and just stay where we are and keep saving. /Sigh.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on July 24, 2013, 01:25:51 PM
Okay, we checked out that other house and it is definitely a no go :( It's original 1942 with the 2 prong outlets, lead based paint, floor plan that doesn't flow at all. Oh well.

Now we're trying to decide whether to go ahead and purchase a home since we already took the money out of our Roth's, or put it back in and max out for this year (and pay the penalty since we didn't purchase a house?) and just stay where we are and keep saving. /Sigh.

Is the first house a definite no-go? Did you actually cancel that contract, or did they say they would negotiate? Even if the contract is entirely cancelled, I wouldn't despair yet. They will have a hard time finding a buyer.

I'm not sure what you mean about putting the money back into your Roth IRAs or paying a penalty for not buying a house -- you can withdraw your principal without a penalty, except you lose the opportunity to make a contribution for those years. If you want to "put it back in," it would have to be your 2013 contribution. You have until April 15 to make that contribution, so I'm not sure that I would put it back in only to withdraw in a few months -- you would lose the ability to make your 2013 contribution.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 24, 2013, 01:58:17 PM
Okay, we checked out that other house and it is definitely a no go :( It's original 1942 with the 2 prong outlets, lead based paint, floor plan that doesn't flow at all. Oh well.

Now we're trying to decide whether to go ahead and purchase a home since we already took the money out of our Roth's, or put it back in and max out for this year (and pay the penalty since we didn't purchase a house?) and just stay where we are and keep saving. /Sigh.

Is the first house a definite no-go? Did you actually cancel that contract, or did they say they would negotiate? Even if the contract is entirely cancelled, I wouldn't despair yet. They will have a hard time finding a buyer.

I'm not sure what you mean about putting the money back into your Roth IRAs or paying a penalty for not buying a house -- you can withdraw your principal without a penalty, except you lose the opportunity to make a contribution for those years. If you want to "put it back in," it would have to be your 2013 contribution. You have until April 15 to make that contribution, so I'm not sure that I would put it back in only to withdraw in a few months -- you would lose the ability to make your 2013 contribution.

Yeah, the first one is cancelled. I hope they sit on it for all eternity. They are beyond hard to deal with.

Thanks for that explanation. I couldn't remember the rules. But I know when I withdrew it, it gave me a message about a penalty, so, I don't know. But yeah, I realize it would be the 2013 contribution if we decided to wait. I reckon we'll just hang on to it.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on July 24, 2013, 02:02:34 PM

Thanks for that explanation. I couldn't remember the rules. But I know when I withdrew it, it gave me a message about a penalty, so, I don't know. But yeah, I realize it would be the 2013 contribution if we decided to wait. I reckon we'll just hang on to it.

Did you withdraw the entire thing, or just your principal contributions? If you withdrew investment gains, then there is a penalty.

I would put the money into an investment vehicle, keeping in mind your goal to have it ready for a down payment in the next few months. At some point (maybe April 1st? LOL), if nothing has happened on the housing front, I would put it back in the IRA. You have nothing to lose at that point -- your ability to make your 2013 contribution will expire on April 15 anyway, so withdrawing it in a few months will be no different from having let that deadline expire.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on July 24, 2013, 10:54:57 PM

Thanks for that explanation. I couldn't remember the rules. But I know when I withdrew it, it gave me a message about a penalty, so, I don't know. But yeah, I realize it would be the 2013 contribution if we decided to wait. I reckon we'll just hang on to it.

Did you withdraw the entire thing, or just your principal contributions? If you withdrew investment gains, then there is a penalty.

I would put the money into an investment vehicle, keeping in mind your goal to have it ready for a down payment in the next few months. At some point (maybe April 1st? LOL), if nothing has happened on the housing front, I would put it back in the IRA. You have nothing to lose at that point -- your ability to make your 2013 contribution will expire on April 15 anyway, so withdrawing it in a few months will be no different from having let that deadline expire.

Just principal. Thanks! I'll look into that.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on August 20, 2013, 08:57:51 AM
You guys. Guess what? It looks like we'll be moving to this trailer after all.

Several weeks ago I got a Facebook message from the sister saying that one of the brother's wanted to talk to me about the property. I caved and called him, but was adamant about not purchasing it. He hemmed and hawed, saying he didn't really know what all was going on (uh, yeah you do, we haven't gotten our deposit back), and just really wanted to know if we were serious about backing out. We chatted for a while. After a while he claimed he had 3 other buyers begging for the property. I told him to go ahead since we weren't buying it. He kept on and on......I finally told him the conversation was over (I was trying to cook dinner).

I told my mom about the conversation about a week later. She wanted his contact number. She wanted to buy the property and attach it to hers and they were going to put a larger garden down there (and remove the trailer), unless we still wanted to move down there. Well, she calls him and they chat for about 45 minutes. He was still living over there when my parents moved in and they chatted about all of that. He was super nice to her and realizing that he can't sell his sentiment and whatnot.

She told him she had no use for the trailer and they could either sell it separately or she would have it removed. Yadda yadda.....

Well, she is signing a contract today for.....

$16K. That's $4K cheaper than the original price.

We're going to buy it from her.

So, thanks to everyone for their advice! Looks like it's going to work out.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: olivia on August 20, 2013, 10:20:00 AM
Awesome, congrats! 
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: FrugalZony on August 20, 2013, 10:32:07 AM
You guys. Guess what? It looks like we'll be moving to this trailer after all.

Several weeks ago I got a Facebook message from the sister saying that one of the brother's wanted to talk to me about the property. I caved and called him, but was adamant about not purchasing it. He hemmed and hawed, saying he didn't really know what all was going on (uh, yeah you do, we haven't gotten our deposit back), and just really wanted to know if we were serious about backing out. We chatted for a while. After a while he claimed he had 3 other buyers begging for the property. I told him to go ahead since we weren't buying it. He kept on and on......I finally told him the conversation was over (I was trying to cook dinner).

I told my mom about the conversation about a week later. She wanted his contact number. She wanted to buy the property and attach it to hers and they were going to put a larger garden down there (and remove the trailer), unless we still wanted to move down there. Well, she calls him and they chat for about 45 minutes. He was still living over there when my parents moved in and they chatted about all of that. He was super nice to her and realizing that he can't sell his sentiment and whatnot.

She told him she had no use for the trailer and they could either sell it separately or she would have it removed. Yadda yadda.....

Well, she is signing a contract today for.....

$16K. That's $4K cheaper than the original price.

We're going to buy it from her.

So, thanks to everyone for their advice! Looks like it's going to work out.

Ha, I KNEW it!!!! I normally don't like to say "told you so", but in this case, I was really hoping at some point I could.
I was actually expecting this any day now!! So here it goes TOLD YOU SO!!!
Congrats!!!!!
Truly happy for you!!!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: MissStache on August 20, 2013, 10:39:37 AM
A happy ending for our heroine!  Yay!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on August 20, 2013, 10:53:50 AM
A happy ending for our heroine!  Yay!

:D

Snip

Ha, I KNEW it!!!! I normally don't like to say "told you so", but in this case, I was really hoping at some point I could.
I was actually expecting this any day now!! So here it goes TOLD YOU SO!!!
Congrats!!!!!
Truly happy for you!!!

LOL! That's quite alright! I don't mind in this case!!

Awesome, congrats! 

Thanks!!


There's still a lot that has happened that still has me livid about this whole situation. I feel like they tried to take advantage of my husband and I, which almost happened.

I guess my mom is the heroine in this situation. And to think, I almost didn't tell her about the phone conversation I had with the brother.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Forcus on August 20, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
I just now saw this thread. I don't know what it is about estates and kids involved but we have had a carbon copy of many of the details of this situation, with the assorted lies and misrepresentation, and even including the emotional mom (mother in law) who cries everytime something falls through. For instance, we were looking at an older (70's) ranch on 3/4 acre and were told the appraisal was for $250k. When we stumbled across the appraisal we found that it had been riddled with errors that reduced the comparable value, and it was based on including a larger parcel of land of 5 acres of farmland worth about 17.5k / acre! Not a mistake that you could reasonably make.

I will say that depending on your area, anything up to that 25k might have been a great deal. We are finding overpriced land here, with no infrastructure, which is expensive to put in. Assuming that water / gas / electric / sewer is in place, someone could easily build a home there and have a full acre of land. A developed acre of land like that in my area would be in the neighborhood of 50k.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Hunny156 on August 20, 2013, 11:07:36 AM
Yay for Zoe!!!  I'm so glad to hear that this looks like it's going to go through, and at a reasonable price.  I've been watching for updates too, I'm really happy for you that it all worked out, even if you had to go through the extra shenanigans w/your Mom buying it first.

Btw, I always love it when the seller tries to puff up his leverage by saying that there are so many other buyers.  If there truly were (and we know he's lying), then why would he even bother w/you?  He's clearly interested in what's best for him, not some perceived sentimentality you have on the location.  That was made clear when you had serious issues w/the electrical and whatnot, and they refused to budge on the price.

Their greed cost them in the end, but greed tends to do that.  No worries, it looks like it will all conclude to a happy ending for your family, and one step closer to FI!  Congrats!!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on August 20, 2013, 12:01:42 PM
Great news! Good for you for standing your ground.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rural on August 20, 2013, 07:59:50 PM
Fantastic! I'm not a bit surprised. Your mom is the only person with right of access to that property, so they could sell to her or not sell, and once you backed out, they realized that.

Now, what's this about a deposit? What's the plan for getting it back?

Enjoy your new place!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on August 21, 2013, 09:20:02 AM
Fantastic! I'm not a bit surprised. Your mom is the only person with right of access to that property, so they could sell to her or not sell, and once you backed out, they realized that.

Now, what's this about a deposit? What's the plan for getting it back?

Enjoy your new place!

Yep.

The deposit is being looked over by a real estate judge, or whatever. He/She will decide if we had grounds to back out. If they decide yes, then we'll get it back. If not, we're out $500 :(
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: TrulyStashin on August 21, 2013, 10:25:06 AM
Hurray!  This is great news.  I expected this outcome and I'm so happy you stood your ground.

I hope the anger fades soon.  You're right, they were trying to take advantage of you but you got the better of them and got what you wanted.  Try to let the anger go so you have space for all the good feelings that are soon to come as you renovate and move in.

Party time!!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Basenji on August 21, 2013, 10:48:30 AM
Wow. This was so educational! Not just all the details about negotiating, but handling emotional responses to transactions. I am so happy for you Zoe! You are an inspiration and the MMM community came together as a force for good.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on August 21, 2013, 02:08:13 PM
Hurray!  This is great news.  I expected this outcome and I'm so happy you stood your ground.

I hope the anger fades soon.  You're right, they were trying to take advantage of you but you got the better of them and got what you wanted.  Try to let the anger go so you have space for all the good feelings that are soon to come as you renovate and move in.

Party time!!

I hope it does too. I'm trying to find peace with it. And I'm sure I will once I see all this extra money we will have monthly to fund our Roth's and other investments :)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on August 21, 2013, 02:09:28 PM
Wow. This was so educational! Not just all the details about negotiating, but handling emotional responses to transactions. I am so happy for you Zoe! You are an inspiration and the MMM community came together as a force for good.

Aww thanks :) I"m glad it was a teaching/learning experience.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Freedom2016 on August 21, 2013, 02:26:39 PM
It seems like you will also get the last word, since as far as the sellers know, your mom's going to knock down the trailer. You can stand in your new doorway and thumb "neener, neener, neener" at them - think how great that's going to feel!!! :)
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: olivia on August 21, 2013, 02:31:30 PM
It seems like you will also get the last word, since as far as the sellers know, your mom's going to knock down the trailer. You can stand in your new doorway and thumb "neener, neener, neener" at them - think how great that's going to feel!!! :)

Ha ditto!  Just don't do that until it's signed, sealed and delivered!  :P
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on August 22, 2013, 01:22:07 PM
Fantastic! I'm not a bit surprised. Your mom is the only person with right of access to that property, so they could sell to her or not sell, and once you backed out, they realized that.

Now, what's this about a deposit? What's the plan for getting it back?

Enjoy your new place!

Yep.

The deposit is being looked over by a real estate judge, or whatever. He/She will decide if we had grounds to back out. If they decide yes, then we'll get it back. If not, we're out $500 :(

That is such BS. Of course you had grounds to back out -- it didn't have marketable title! It failed electrical inspection, to boot. Are there attorneys' fees involved, and does the seller have to pay them to you if you win? That was a real douchebag move on their part. Jerks.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on August 23, 2013, 10:02:47 AM
Fantastic! I'm not a bit surprised. Your mom is the only person with right of access to that property, so they could sell to her or not sell, and once you backed out, they realized that.

Now, what's this about a deposit? What's the plan for getting it back?

Enjoy your new place!

Yep.

The deposit is being looked over by a real estate judge, or whatever. He/She will decide if we had grounds to back out. If they decide yes, then we'll get it back. If not, we're out $500 :(

That is such BS. Of course you had grounds to back out -- it didn't have marketable title! It failed electrical inspection, to boot. Are there attorneys' fees involved, and does the seller have to pay them to you if you win? That was a real douchebag move on their part. Jerks.

It is BS, which is why I'm still mad about the whole situation. I wasn't told there were any attorney's fees. I think it's more like a mediator type thing.
Super douchey.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on October 11, 2013, 12:35:33 PM
Final Update on This Particular Housing Situation: Y'all Ain't Gonna Believe This Shit.

Turns out one of the owner's had a business or something that went under and now has 3 different liens that are attached to any of his property....so, yep, there's about $45K worth of liens attached to the trailer. So, the property is now going to sit for at least a couple years until the first lien falls off (that's what the guy said...that liens just "fall off" after 10 years), that one's around $25K or so.

So, unfortunately (or fortunately), this entire fiasco has come to an end. BUT, since they are taking us to court over the earnest money, I am totally going to bring this up. Had we gotten this far in the sale, this would have come up regardless.

Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: FrugalZony on October 11, 2013, 01:34:18 PM
Oh no!! Sorry to hear!!
Now you have to invest time and money in court! That truly sucks!

What are you going to do now about the housing situation!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on October 12, 2013, 10:06:48 AM
Yup, sucks big time.

We're at yet another cross road with housing. My parents have offered for us to put a trailer on their property, but my husband isn't really too keen on it. Childcare would be convenient and if I decided to quit my job, we could afford to do so.

I am going to talk to my boss and see if I can adjust my work schedule to come in later. If that's agreeable, then we are going to look at housing options near our jobs. We would be looking for something we could pay for in cash, or a cheap rental. This way I could quit my job if I decided to and be okay financially.
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Rebecca Stapler on October 27, 2013, 06:44:45 PM
WHAT?! Un-be-fucking-LIEVABLE!

Aw shit, I hope you can get all your money that you've put into this madness back. Man, I think they should owe YOU some money for all that BS!
Title: Re: Housing.
Post by: Zoe on November 01, 2013, 07:09:23 AM
Yeah. Totally ridiculous

I KNOW we're getting our $500 earnest money back, and I have half a mind to ask for them to pay us back all the inspections and survey money. All of that is nearly $1,000.

The super hilarious thing is that they are still wanting to take it to court. LMFAO. You dumbasses.