Author Topic: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?  (Read 10886 times)

spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
I asked this in another housing topic but didn't want to hijack that thread so starting a new one.

My former next door neighbor (8000 sf lot and 1000 sf 3/2 single story 1950s house) said the house next door was bulldozed and the owners plan to build 2 houses on the property. One a 2 story 4000 sf 7 bedroom/7 bathroom house plus 3 or 4 car garage, and an 800sf 2 bedroom/2 bathroom single story house. These will pretty much be lot line to lot line - I think the set back is around 4 feet from her property line - and likely tower over my neighbors house and yard.

So she is rightly freaked out and wants to sell but unsure if she should wait until the fancy behemoth is built or GTFO now. Which way would increase selling price - a vacant lot with a big build going on or a finished mcmansion with probably a million people (and their cars) living there? She also would sell it as a teardown because no one touches the small houses there even if highly upgraded and modernized.  All the permits are approved and the build and it is going forward asap. That is a common type of built in SoCal when people buy up the small old houses. TIA.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 11:41:09 AM by spartana »

maizeman

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3825
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2019, 09:14:30 AM »
I have zero quantitative data to back this up, but I think waiting until the new house is up might make more sense.

People in general (and home buyers in particular) tend to overweight uncertainty and risk in assigning value. If people tour her house while construction is getting started next door, my guess is that they will value the property based on their worst case ideas about what the new mansion may look like and do to quality of life in your friend's lot. Once it is built, it'll detract from quality of life, but by a known amount.

Would be interested to hear the views of others as well.

honeyfill

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Tucson
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2019, 09:32:58 AM »
One of my sisters went through the same thing in a near Chicago neighborhood about 20 years ago.  By the time she sold, 1/2 dozen homes had been bulldozed and new McMansions had been built out to the lot lines in their place. She did very well, as the price of her lot skyrocketed.
In her case, it worked out well, because after the first few houses were built , the rate in the rise of  lot prices slowed back to the average rise in the area.  In other words, the increase is priced in fully after only 3-4 homes are built.   She captured all of the excess price rise and sold out before the neighborhood character changed completely
 
In light of that, I agree with Maizeman.  Wait until the first house is built and people can see that the neighbor hood is definitively starting to turn. However do not wait until more than three or four new ones are built because your lot prices will not appreciate any more quickly after that. 
The only risk is that after the first one is built , more people do not follow suit and build more McMansions.
Your lot price could then drop.  Only you can estimate this risk, but it seems small compared to the potential increase in lot price by waiting. 

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4684
  • Location: Avalon
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2019, 09:37:37 AM »
It may depend on whether a buyer would be a professional developer who would be selling on (who will already have the development next door as an easy guide to the potential of your friend's lot and who won't care about the work in progress because it will be done by the time they sell on) or an amateur/personal developer (either living there or renting out) who will need to see the completed work next door in order to see what's possible as they won't have the knowledge or imagination to work it out without the concrete example in front of them.

I guess your friend needs the best real estate agent in the immediate neighbourhood to advise her.

YttriumNitrate

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 647
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2019, 12:47:29 PM »
Since the buyer of the house would almost certainly be a developer, I doubt they care either way so the price would probably about the same.

Telecaster

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1942
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2019, 03:54:04 PM »
I sold my small 1950s 1000 sf house on an 8000 sf lot last year. It has sat empty since then but yesterday my former next door neighbor (small lot and house like mine) sent me some photos showing it was bulldozed and the owners plan to build 2 houses on the property. One a 2 story 4000 sf 7 bedroom/7 bathroom house plus 3 or 4 car garage, and an 800sf 2 bedroom/2 bathroom single story house. These will pretty much be lot line to lot line - I think the set back is around 4 feet from her property line - and likely tower over my neighbors house and yard.

So she is rightly freaked out and wants to sell but unsure if she should wait until the fancy behemoth is built or GTFO now. Which way would increase selling price - a vacant lot with a big build going on or a finished mcmansion with probably a million people (and their cars) living there? She also would sell it as a teardown because no one touches the small houses there even if highly upgraded and modernized.  All the permits are approved and the build and it is going forward asap. That is a common type of built in SoCal when people buy up the small old houses. TIA.

That type of thing is happening to my neighborhood in Seattle too.  My neighborhood is mostly post WWII, small houses.   Four houses on my street (in one block) have been scraped and rebuilt as luxury homes.   That says to me the value of my house is almost entirely in the land.  And that's probably true for your friend as well.  Since the value is in the land, it probably doesn't matter too much when she sells.  But as a SWAG, it might be better to wait until after they build and sell the McMansions, because that's proof of concept that the tear down model is viable in your neighborhood.   

...which leaves me a little torn.   If my house's value is mostly in the land, I could scrap it myself, rebuild with a McMansion, and then sell it.   Because I bought before the huge run-up in real estate, my cost basis would be much lower than the new McMansion down the street.  Like $550K lower.   If those guys are making money, I could make even more.   But I've put considerable sweat equity into my house and yard and I've become attached.  I realize it is foolish to become attached to inanimate objects, yet here I am. 


Saving in Austin

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2019, 04:21:44 PM »
This happened to my house in Austin. Right next door a 4 bedroom house took the place of a 2 bedroom cottage. The whole neighborhood has gone up in price before, during and after construction. If they want to avoid listening to the construction they could sell now. But I think that potential buyers might not want to listen to the construction either. A fancier house next door and two more on the street right above us have only increased the value of the surrounding homes.

spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2019, 06:34:59 PM »
Thanks for the replies. No view will be obstructed just another culdasac street of a couple of small houses. The builder appears to be a construction company hired to build for the private owner (who lives elsewhere) but unsure if he will be moving into the house or plans to sell it. She never met the owner and the property has been vacant since it sold. There are a few other houses in the hood and near by hoods that have been razed and mcmansionizeso not uncommon there but it does appear to be a fast growing trend. She's going to see if the city planning dept will let her look at the plans on Monday to see how things are configured but no matter how how it's configured, 2 houses around 5000 sf total 9 bedrooms/9 baths 2 of everything else) plus parking and 3 or 4 garages on an 8000 sf lot will be a monster.  I think she just wants to vacate asap but who knows how thing go
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 11:43:00 AM by spartana »

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5575
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
    • Insert Snappy Title Here (Journal)
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2019, 09:37:11 PM »
Iíve been watching similar things happen in my neighborhood where the land value is crazy. Cute 1950s bungalow make way for 4000 ft^2 luxury monstrosities selling for $2-3M. Iíve wondered the same thing: if i razed my little house and built some massive something to flip, I could probably walk away  with $500k+. But I like my house and have zero interest in going to all of that trouble or putting so many financial eggs in one basket.

It makes for a bit of a weird neighborhood being that it is a mix of somewhat unkept old little house, nicely remodeled old little house, giant new houses, 1990s soul-less ranch crap, and everything in between. I like how eclectic it is, but the trend is clear as this is one of the few pockets of relative affordability left in my area.

I suppose for us in this position we just wait to see how things go and be grateful that it doesnít seem to be negatively impacting our equity?

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5790
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2019, 10:43:22 PM »
It seems crazy that people donít want a yard but all house.

Linea_Norway

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5895
  • Location: Norway
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2019, 12:20:52 AM »
It seems crazy that people donít want a yard but all house.

A bit down the hill of my house, a developing company built 3 similar high end houses, in very modern style. The look great from within, but have no yard at all. It is just the house. Now, several years later, only one house has been sold, even though they have tried to sell for a reduced price.. I guess people want a yard after all.

jpdx

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 430
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2019, 12:56:54 AM »
7 bathrooms? What the hell is wrong with people?

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4684
  • Location: Avalon
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2019, 01:55:46 AM »
7 bathrooms? What the hell is wrong with people?
I've seen that near me.  The master bedroom has his and hers bathrooms, all the other bedrooms need their own en suite, there is a "spare" bathroom on the upper floor just because, and on the ground floor there is a cloakroom for guests and another one off the utility (presumably for whatever servant is cooking in the kitchen).  The house is then empty for most of the year.  Madness.

Hula Hoop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1242
  • Location: Italy
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2019, 02:37:01 AM »
That is completely insane.  I live in apartment and therefore have no yard.  I can't imagine choosing to live in a house with no yard.  Why not just live in an apartment?

BicycleB

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1736
  • Location: Live Music Capital of the World
  • Older than the internet, but not wiser... yet
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2019, 05:04:06 AM »
Sounds like a situation where different people will have different values in mind, both in the financial and the emotional sense. Ideas:

-Like @former player said, get professional advice. Maybe find someone with specific expertise in "teardowns"?
-Research / network through real estate groups or forums to find people who do these flips (to find the person above)
-I've heard a rule of thumb that building is profitable when the structure is worth 4x the lot value. Maybe use that to:
--determine whether the neigbhor's plan appears economically viable
--figure out the value of the lot based on similar construction
--don't sell unless you get the higher of appraised land value or value according the 4x rule

Will defer to more knowledgeable posters as they continue to comment.

spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2019, 08:26:10 AM »
7 bathrooms? What the hell is wrong with people?
I've seen that near me.  The master bedroom has his and hers bathrooms, all the other bedrooms need their own en suite, there is a "spare" bathroom on the upper floor just because, and on the ground floor there is a cloakroom for guests and another one off the utility (presumably for whatever servant is cooking in the kitchen).  The house is then empty for most of the year.  Madness.
I guess I should have clarified that this is in a very large Asian-American/Vietnamese immigrant community and it's extremely common to have large groups of people living together in one or 2 ginormous houses on one small lot. Also AirBNBs are common even if technically illegal. Foreign student housing and laborours who come there to work in the shops and restaurants are all common. Heck even large housing is built for small Buddhist Monasteries are common (at least the monks don't...usually...have cars ;-)). So not only will there be a huge building, it will likely have many people living there. Legally they can have 18 people living in 9 bedrooms (and each with its own bath) but illegally it could have many more. So I think ALL the bathrooms will get used ;-). It sounds like the owner and his family will be living in the ADU and so they will probably rent out the main house to 7 or more people - as a big group or individually. Lots of traffic and parking issues as most of the other houses have numerous extended family living there or rent rooms in their homes.


She's still working and has a disabled kid so just up and moving would be hard. Plus I think she planned to stay awhile longer. If it was me as a single childless FIREd person I'd get rid of everything, go rent a place somewhere for 6 months and put it up for sale asap so I wouldn't have to deal with the construction mess all summer. Even if it meant I lost some money. But not that easy for her plus she bought years ago and has an affordable mortgage and prop taxes.


spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2019, 08:34:40 AM »
Sounds like a situation where different people will have different values in mind, both in the financial and the emotional sense. Ideas:

-Like @former player said, get professional advice. Maybe find someone with specific expertise in "teardowns"?
-Research / network through real estate groups or forums to find people who do these flips (to find the person above)
-I've heard a rule of thumb that building is profitable when the structure is worth 4x the lot value. Maybe use that to:
--determine whether the neigbhor's plan appears economically viable
--figure out the value of the lot based on similar construction
--don't sell unless you get the higher of appraised land value or value according the 4x rule

Will defer to more knowledgeable posters as they continue to comment.
Thanks. I think she is still in shock about this having just found out on Friday when the giant bulldozer started knocking down the house (I guess city planners don't need to let people who own adjacent homes with shared lot lines know that something like that will be built). She will have to wait to deal with until she can talk to the planning dept on Monday but from past experience seeing happening around the hood, I know there is no way she can stop it.

 But I agree talking to a professional and perhaps other builders and also a realtor about it would be the first step even if she decides to stay put and not sell. As I mentioned above she doesn't want to sell at all right now but she's not sure she could live within a few feet of a giant house or 2 that will likely be populated by a large number of tenants. It doesn't sound like a flip but more an owner expansion for both owner family living plus shared rental space.

ETA the other neighbors are Vietnamese (she is Caucasian) and also do similar rentals with their own house. All all single story and have been expanded to cover most of the lot (and are very nice looking and do have nice grassy front yards as per city code requirements) to accomadate extended family and rental units. So they may not be much help or sympathetic to her.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 08:49:54 AM by spartana »

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4684
  • Location: Avalon
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2019, 08:47:25 AM »
7 bathrooms? What the hell is wrong with people?
I've seen that near me.  The master bedroom has his and hers bathrooms, all the other bedrooms need their own en suite, there is a "spare" bathroom on the upper floor just because, and on the ground floor there is a cloakroom for guests and another one off the utility (presumably for whatever servant is cooking in the kitchen).  The house is then empty for most of the year.  Madness.
I guess I should have clarified that this is in a very large Asian-American/Vietnamese immigrant community and it's extremely common to have large groups of people living together in one or 2 ginormous houses on one small lot. Also AirBNBs are common even if technically illegal. Foreign student housing and laborours who come there to work in the shops and restaurants are all common. Heck even large housing is built for small Buddhist Monasteries are common (at least the monks don't...usually...have cars ;-)). So not only will there be a huge building, it will likely have many people living there. Legally they can have 18 people living in 9 bedrooms (and each with its own bath) but illegally it could have many more. So I think ALL the bathrooms will get used ;-). It sounds like the owner and his family will be living in the ADU and so they will probably rent out the main house to 7 or more people - as a big group or individually. Lots of traffic and parking issues as most of the other houses have numerous extended family living there or rent rooms in their homes.

Ah.  Here in the UK that would be called a "house in multiple occupation" which would need to be licensed by the local authority and meet certain safety and amenity standards, and there would probably be a limit on how many were allowed in any one neighbourhood.  And something that size probably wouldn't get planning permission in a residential neighbourhood in the first place because it would be overdevelopment.

spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2019, 09:03:05 AM »
Since the buyer of the house would almost certainly be a developer, I doubt they care either way so the price would probably about the same.
I think this is probably true. Maybe not a developer but an owner/investor who would raze her place and rebuilt big. So I think in any case she could probably expect to get what I sold my place for at the minimum.. She really doesn't want to move but selling asap might be the best option financially and emotionally. She probably would have to rent as this is in a HCOL area of Calif and doubtful she could afford to buy a place again with the remaining equity and her slowish income. The house is very affordable but who the hell can live next to such a giant 2 house structure? The city won't even allow a fence that is higher than 6 feet and the ADU can be up to 15 feet high and the main house probably double or triple that with a peaked roof. Plus balconies can be even with the lot line. Madness!

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5790
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2019, 10:17:25 AM »
In her financial situation I would probably stay.  I spend more time in my house than outside but would be annoying if she is outside more than in.

lhamo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9904
  • Location: Seattle
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2019, 10:51:31 AM »
Any chance there might be organizations that could help her find subsidized housing, given her low income and the disabled child? Maybe you could help her navigate that process, at least to see if there are options.  There might be waiting lists, but if she gets on them now that is a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.

nessness

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 415
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2019, 06:36:17 PM »
I decided not to buy a house that I otherwise loved because the owners were selling half the lot separately (they were on a 1-acre lot and split it into house+1/2 acre lot and a vacant 1/2 acre lot). There was just too much uncertainty not knowing what the other owner would build, and I didn't want to live next to a construction site for months. So given that, I would think she'd have an easier time selling once the construction is done.

Villanelle

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3058
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2019, 07:11:28 PM »
She might see if she can get in contact with the new owners next door and see if they'd like to buy her home to add on to their compound.  What's the harm in asking?  And if she arranges the sale herself, she save the real estate fees. 

dougules

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1651
  • Location: AL
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2019, 11:42:27 AM »
Why is she so freaked out about the new houses? 

Does she actually not want to live next to the new houses, or is she just worried about the future of the neighborhood?  I think worry about the future of the neighborhood is unwarranted because it sounds like if anything it's going to get fancier. 

If she's worried about living next to the new houses, maybe she should hold out and see if her fears are really founded.  It probably won't be as big a change as she's worried about when the construction dust settles. 

FWIW, keeping tiny little houses on big lots is what's behind the housing crisis in California.  The developer is doubling the supply of housing units on that lot to counter what's clearly a really high demand. 

It seems crazy that people donít want a yard but all house.

I'd like to just enough yard for a vegetable garden and a tree.  A lot of yard is just a pain here in the jungle, and it's just more sprawl.  Unfortunately people seem to have decided that they need to government mandate yard size to the detriment of the environment, housing affordability, and those of us who don't feel that God ordained yard work as a virtue. 

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5790
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2019, 12:13:56 PM »
No one is mandating yard size.  But having no yard I find odd. We have 2 patios because one has table and chairs to eat and the one at the back of the yard has a fire pit. We like to entertain in the summer and can invite more people than fit in our small home.  We also have a small garden and a shed to hold stuff. We sit outside everyday in good weather.  Our yard is not huge.

BicycleB

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1736
  • Location: Live Music Capital of the World
  • Older than the internet, but not wiser... yet
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2019, 12:27:20 PM »
No one is mandating yard size. 

With all due respect, city zoning codes often mandate things like "percentage of impervious cover", which have the effect of requiring that portions of each normal residential lot are basically yard.

In most areas of my city, it's illegal to just build all house.

dougules

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1651
  • Location: AL
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2019, 02:21:45 PM »
No one is mandating yard size.  But having no yard I find odd. We have 2 patios because one has table and chairs to eat and the one at the back of the yard has a fire pit. We like to entertain in the summer and can invite more people than fit in our small home.  We also have a small garden and a shed to hold stuff. We sit outside everyday in good weather.  Our yard is not huge.

We perceive it as odd because yard size has been part of zoning for more than half a century now.  We're accostumed to seeing only big yards because anything else is illegal in so many places.  There are a lot of older urban areas where independent houses with very small yards are common.  DH is from PA where there are a lot of row houses.  New Orleans has shotgun houses that have just enough space on either side for some airflow given the hot climate.

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5790
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2019, 02:57:58 PM »
Housing here is becoming scarce and expensive.  In some of the older neighborhoods they are building new homes with just a tiny strip of yard around the entire house. 

robartsd

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2526
  • Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2019, 03:57:41 PM »
Thanks. I think she is still in shock about this having just found out on Friday when the giant bulldozer started knocking down the house (I guess city planners don't need to let people who own adjacent homes with shared lot lines know that something like that will be built).
I don't think notification of neighbors is usually required unless applying for a zoning change or a variance.

spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2019, 04:30:15 PM »
Any chance there might be organizations that could help her find subsidized housing, given her low income and the disabled child? Maybe you could help her navigate that process, at least to see if there are options.  There might be waiting lists, but if she gets on them now that is a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.
I don't know much about subsidized housing or lower income housing but she would probably make to much to qualify anyways. I think she'd have a hard time qualifying for a mortgage around her area even with using all the proceeds from a sale of her place. So renting would likely be the only option. At least that's what I would do. My only recommendation to her would be to wait a bit before deciding (don't freak out and d do something irreversible), talk to some people about potentially selling and look around to see what's available in case she does decide to sell asap.

To answer @dougules question about why she's afraid of a new house being built - its not because its a new house, its because its a 2 story 7 bedroom and 7 bathroom house plus a second 2 bedroom 2 bath house. It will be 4 feet from her property line and 8 feet from her house and literally loom over her house and yard. Plus the potential 18 plus people who could legally live there (common in that area) or an AirBNB. The house is the last house on a culdasac with very limited parking and she's afraid it will be constant people, cars, noise, and traffic in and out all day everyday. So it's mainly the potential intrusiveness of having so many people in a small area just a few feet from you, combined with a story story house practically on top of a little house not that's it new or even large.


Abe

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1264
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2019, 09:15:00 PM »
I think she'd get a better price with a finished house next door (at least the exterior) rather than a construction site. Hopefully the noise won't be too annoying.

Regarding house/yard ratios:
I'm moving to a similar neighborhood (probably close to the same city you're talking about) and noticed the yards are pretty small. At least there's a big park next to the neighborhood to compensate. While it is more efficient and ecologically sound to have higher-density housing, it is a bit annoying to have such close neighbors. Oh well.


spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2019, 12:06:29 PM »
I think she'd get a better price with a finished house next door (at least the exterior) rather than a construction site. Hopefully the noise won't be too annoying.

Regarding house/yard ratios:
I'm moving to a similar neighborhood (probably close to the same city you're talking about) and noticed the yards are pretty small. At least there's a big park next to the neighborhood to compensate. While it is more efficient and ecologically sound to have higher-density housing, it is a bit annoying to have such close neighbors. Oh well.
Welcome to the hood! I don't live there any longer but have a shared crash pad rental I stay at near by between travels. I also lived right by a park so maybe it'll be the same one. I know of a quaint little 9 bedroom 9 bath property you could buy soon ;-).

She emailed the city planner and basicly the main house and the back side part of the ADU will be built very close (4 feet) from her property line. Plus a 3 car garage and a 3 car driveway and a spot for the ADU house to park. Sounds like it will totally cover the lot and be lot line to lot line (with 4 foot Set back) in all directions with some patios in between the 2 houses. A neighbor said the owner and his family will be living in the ADU and they will rent rooms in the 7 bedroom main house. I feel bad for her and the other adjacent neighbors who have smaller single story houses - although most have been nicely remodeled and have single story expansions that are used as rentals and which are very unintrusive.

So I'm not sure if waiting for the houses to be built and finished before selling is a good idea or bad idea. Maybe just wait until it's done and hope it's not as intrusive and obnoxious as it sounds and decide then. I do agree though that she could get more for selling after it's built if it's nice (very likely) or unless the housing market collapses. That would also allow her to see what's built and if it will actually impact here as much as she thinks it will. So unless the size and proportion of one big house plus smaller house filling a lot, and with numerous people living there, would be less appealing for potential buyers shed probably come out the same or maybe even ahead. I don't know. If this was in a development of similar houses I'd say its a plus, but not sure if that's the case in a tract of small houses. Its kind of like the Edward Scissorhands hood but Edwards castle would be next door to the small houses and squeezed in on a small lot instead of up the hill.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 11:39:23 PM by spartana »

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6493
  • Location: BC
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2019, 12:15:48 PM »
Any chance there might be organizations that could help her find subsidized housing, given her low income and the disabled child? Maybe you could help her navigate that process, at least to see if there are options.  There might be waiting lists, but if she gets on them now that is a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.
I don't know much about subsidized housing or lower income housing but she would probably make to much to qualify anyways. I think she'd have a hard time qualifying for a mortgage around her area even with using all the proceeds from a sale of her place. So renting would likely be the only option. At least that's what I would do. My only recommendation to her would be to wait a bit before deciding (don't freak out and d do something irreversible), talk to some people about potentially selling and look around to see what's available in case she does decide to sell asap.

To answer @dougules question about why she's afraid of a new house being built - its not because its a new house, its because its a 2 story 7 bedroom and 7 bathroom house plus a second 2 bedroom 2 bath house. It will be 4 feet from her property line and 8 feet from her house and literally loom over her house and yard. Plus the potential 18 plus people who could legally live there (common in that area) or an AirBNB. The house is the last house on a culdasac with very limited parking and she's afraid it will be constant people, cars, noise, and traffic in and out all day everyday. So it's mainly the potential intrusiveness of having so many people in a small area just a few feet from you, combined with a story story house practically on top of a little house not that's it new or even large.

Yep.  The two biggest issues are
-- huge house shading / removing privacy and enjoyment of your own back yard...  removal of old beautiful trees that benefit you and
--the parking problem

The parking issue can often be dealt with through calling city bylaw officers to ticket offending vehicles.  I resolve it by asking people to leave the required distance from my driveway free when they park.   Nice notes with my name on them.  Neighbors are complying, so all is good so far.   

The third problem is noise / impact potential.. but honestly, my single neighbor with the loud drunk partieis until 3am on a small SFH on a large lot (hence outdoor parties).. and the one who repairs motorcycles in their yard (loud!)  is a much larger issue than the multi-family homes around me.

The fourth problem is real -- 4 ft from lot lines.  If there is any concern about new construction impacting her foundations, then she may want a preliminary geotech report on the baseline before construction starts.  She could ask her insurance company the best way to protect her home if the construction causes damage.   This is more common if there are retaining walls / differing elevations between the properties.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6982
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2019, 01:03:32 PM »
It seems crazy that people donít want a yard but all house.
Yards need maintenance.

In California, the world is your yard.  The beach, the parks, the bike paths.
Either that or you are working 60 hrs a week to pay for the house, so you don't get to go outside anyway.

To the OP: I'd probably wait.  It seems like gentrification brings up house values, in general.  At least here on the Central Coast anyway.

dougules

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1651
  • Location: AL
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2019, 03:08:58 PM »
To answer @dougules question about why she's afraid of a new house being built - its not because its a new house, its because its a 2 story 7 bedroom and 7 bathroom house plus a second 2 bedroom 2 bath house. It will be 4 feet from her property line and 8 feet from her house and literally loom over her house and yard. Plus the potential 18 plus people who could legally live there (common in that area) or an AirBNB. The house is the last house on a culdasac with very limited parking and she's afraid it will be constant people, cars, noise, and traffic in and out all day everyday. So it's mainly the potential intrusiveness of having so many people in a small area just a few feet from you, combined with a story story house practically on top of a little house not that's it new or even large.

The construction will probably be a PITA, but there's a good chance it won't be as bad as she's fearing when it's done.  It sounds like she's panicking.  If it were me I'd stick it out to see if it really is as bad as it seems at first blush.  There's also the fact that if she does decide to leave she'll probably get more for it when it's not next to a construction site, unless she sells to a developer as a tear-down. 

Another Reader

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5104
Re: House next door razed. Giant mcmansion to be built. Sell now or wait?
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2019, 03:58:07 PM »
I think her real issue is whether she wants to own or rent.  The selling expenses and the house being one of the lowest priced properties in the area likely preclude buying another home in the area.  She can move someplace less expensive or she can rent locally if she wants to stay. Rents go up over time, and she could be forced to move when that happens.  Her best choice might be to tolerate the new neighbors and stay if owning her home and staying in the area are important to her. 

If/when she does move, she may be able to take her property tax basis with her under Prop 60/90 if she is over 55.  That might help make another purchase feasible.

spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
^I think she would ideally like to own her place forever but not sure if she'd want to own elsewhere in the area or rent. I think she just doesn't want to be next to a giant house with lots of people and parking issues for years. I don't even think the on going construction would  bother her (quiet and people-less at night and she works during the day) but she is concerned about the end product. Especially after seeing some of the other giant house builds next to small houses around the area. But the general consensus here seems to be wait and see and I agree.

I also think part of it is just NIMBY-ism. You move into a suburban, lightly populated tract of SFHs years ago and it is basically turning into multi-family apt units (with no parking) even though its zoned for SFHs.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 08:56:04 AM by spartana »

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6982
^I think she would ideally like to own her place forever but not sure if she'd want to own elsewhere in the area or rent. I think she just doesn't want to be next to a giant house with lots of people and parking issues for years. I don't even think the on going construction would  bother her (quiet and people-less at night and she works during the day) but she is concerned about the end product. Especially after seeing some of the other giant house builds next to small houses around the area. But the general consensus here seems to be wait and see and I agree.

I also think part of it is just NIMBY-ism. You move into a suburban, lightly populated tract of SFHs years ago and it is basically turning into multi-family apt units (with no parking) even though its zoned for SFHs.
I am sympathetic to this view.

I like my house and neighborhood.  Then the CA governor signed the ADU law and it pissed me off.  Now the next-door neighbors and a bunch of other people in the hood are converting garages and adding apartments, with no new parking.  Now, it's no real sweat to me - we have 2 cars and 2 off street spots.  But there's no parking if people come visit, and everyone on the planet has a big fucking SUV so we can't see to pull out of our driveway (we've had two cars T-boned, one of them totaled).

I have to admit though, our city ALSO instituted an AUD program - average unit density, allowing for higher density than typical in the city center with less parking - to help make housing more affordable.  It's been an utter, dismal failure.  The first apartments built under that program are luxury apartments that rent for $3000-5000 a month ($3000 for a 1 bedroom).  They are half empty, in a town with 1% vacancy.

OTOH, our city REQUIRES that any ADU be owner-occupied.  That seems to be a good thing.  If you live on the property, you seem to care more about who rents your place and how well it's kept up and how many cars are on the street.  So originally I thought the AUD was great and the ADU sucked, but I've flipped.  Turns out local homeowners are better at taking care of the 'hood compared to developers.

Parking is the big issue.  This is CA not DC.  People have cars.

Another Reader

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5104
"Parking is the big issue.  This is CA not DC.  People have cars."

Yes, they have them and they want to use them.  There is no public transit in the Southern Bay Area except buses that no one rides and the light rail to nowhere.  There is some private transport provided by large corporate employers, but that is nowhere near enough to impose reduced parking requirements based on fanciful projections of mass transit use.

And almost all the new housing is oriented to highly paid professionals.  There are a few subsidized housing projects, but nothing for the old-style middle class.

Thinking of building an ADU before I move to maximize the rental income of the current property.  The last City-sponsored seminar on ADU's was oversubscribed, but I plan to attend the next one.

dougules

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1651
  • Location: AL
If you have a decent size lot, why is parking an issue?  You have room for a driveway and/or garage. 

Another Reader

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5104
If you have a decent size lot, why is parking an issue?  You have room for a driveway and/or garage.

When you have 9 bedrooms in two units on a 5,000 sf lot, there is no room for parking. 

Most new construction here is multi-story condos and apartments.  Densities up to 60 units per acre.  Some townhouses with one or two car garages.  Little or no additional parking on site.  The surrounding lower density single family neighborhoods are the recipients of all the extra cars, parked on their streets.  It creates an unpleasant, hostile environment in those neighborhoods.

spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
If you have a decent size lot, why is parking an issue?  You have room for a driveway and/or garage.
As @Another Reader said it's about high population density communities.

Building codes there for anything 5 bedrooms or larger on a SFH lot requires a 3 car garage and 3 driveway parking spots in front of the garages. ADUs require a single parking spot. So that can give you 7 parking areas (with some maneuvering of vehicles each time a garage parker wants to leave or return) plus street parking which, in a normal suburban tract home area is usually plentiful. Since this is a 9 bedroom, 9 bath, 3 car garage and 4 parking spots place on an 8000 sf lot with only one undesiginated (and highly fought over)  parking space in the street in front of the house I imagine that parking will be insane...probably impossible.

But because in that area of SoCal many people live in large extended multifamily groups and/or rent out available space - including illegally converted garages and multiple room shares. So a 9 bedroom place there will likely house many more people then 9. And, based on past house builds, people will live in the garages too. And since this is happening in most houses, there is no street parking and parking on grass is not allowed.

For example the single story house across the street from my old place had 3 bedrooms plus a 2 bedroom addition and 10 people lived there with 10 cars. No one parked in the garage so they parked in the extended driveway (4 cars) and the others parked in the street. The people next to them with an original 3 bedroom house had 7 cars - also did not use their garage for parking so parked 3 on the driveway and the rest on the street. It was massively crazy for anyone who had multiple people living in one house or had many cars.

ETA I was just googling the cities current demolition permit requests and one was to demolish a newer 2800 sf house and build a 4300 sf house on the lot. Apparently no one could live in 2800 sf and, you know, actually survive ;-).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 07:33:15 PM by spartana »

robartsd

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2526
  • Location: Sacramento, CA
The parking issue is easily solved by petitioning the city to make on street parking permit based. Each lot would have the opportunity to get one or two permits to park on the street in their neighborhood.

dougules

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1651
  • Location: AL
If you have a decent size lot, why is parking an issue?  You have room for a driveway and/or garage.

When you have 9 bedrooms in two units on a 5,000 sf lot, there is no room for parking. 

Most new construction here is multi-story condos and apartments.  Densities up to 60 units per acre.  Some townhouses with one or two car garages.  Little or no additional parking on site.  The surrounding lower density single family neighborhoods are the recipients of all the extra cars, parked on their streets.  It creates an unpleasant, hostile environment in those neighborhoods.

I meant for the existing residents that still have houses much smaller than the lot.  I almost never need street parking because I have plenty of driveway and a 2 car carport.  As my neighborhood becomes more and more student focused, my older neighbor likes to complain about the uptick in cars parked along the street.  It seems like a non-issue to me, though. 


spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
The parking issue is easily solved by petitioning the city to make on street parking permit based. Each lot would have the opportunity to get one or two permits to park on the street in their neighborhood.
IIRC about 5 or so years ago when parking started to be a problem some residents tried to petition the city for parking permits but they didn't get enough "yes" votes. Apparently you needed 75% of the residents to agree.  That was back when parking was more "normal" for a suburban SFH tract. Now, given the current population growth there, I doubt if anyone would vote yes except for the very few remaining long term owners that haven't expanded.

She sent me a photo showing the house gone and lot compacted and ready to start building. It looks so tiny I can't even visualize a big house and second house plus garages etc on it.

spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
If you have a decent size lot, why is parking an issue?  You have room for a driveway and/or garage.

When you have 9 bedrooms in two units on a 5,000 sf lot, there is no room for parking. 

Most new construction here is multi-story condos and apartments.  Densities up to 60 units per acre.  Some townhouses with one or two car garages.  Little or no additional parking on site.  The surrounding lower density single family neighborhoods are the recipients of all the extra cars, parked on their streets.  It creates an unpleasant, hostile environment in those neighborhoods.

I meant for the existing residents that still have houses much smaller than the lot.  I almost never need street parking because I have plenty of driveway and a 2 car carport.  As my neighborhood becomes more and more student focused, my older neighbor likes to complain about the uptick in cars parked along the street.  It seems like a non-issue to me, though.
All of the houses there, even in the original small houses, have 2 car garages and at least two car driveways. So back in the day it was enough. But now most houses have more people with cars living in them then they have room to park and most don't use their garages for parking. There are only a few houses who only have 4 cars or less.

dougules

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1651
  • Location: AL
If you have a decent size lot, why is parking an issue?  You have room for a driveway and/or garage.

When you have 9 bedrooms in two units on a 5,000 sf lot, there is no room for parking. 

Most new construction here is multi-story condos and apartments.  Densities up to 60 units per acre.  Some townhouses with one or two car garages.  Little or no additional parking on site.  The surrounding lower density single family neighborhoods are the recipients of all the extra cars, parked on their streets.  It creates an unpleasant, hostile environment in those neighborhoods.

I meant for the existing residents that still have houses much smaller than the lot.  I almost never need street parking because I have plenty of driveway and a 2 car carport.  As my neighborhood becomes more and more student focused, my older neighbor likes to complain about the uptick in cars parked along the street.  It seems like a non-issue to me, though.
All of the houses there, even in the original small houses, have 2 car garages and at least two car driveways. So back in the day it was enough. But now most houses have more people with cars living in them then they have room to park and most don't use their garages for parking. There are only a few houses who only have 4 cars or less.

How can you complain about newcomers if you're already part of the "problem"?

dougules

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1651
  • Location: AL
BTW, let your neighbor know she can get a house in Alabama for $100k with more than ample parking. 

spartana

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
If you have a decent size lot, why is parking an issue?  You have room for a driveway and/or garage.

When you have 9 bedrooms in two units on a 5,000 sf lot, there is no room for parking. 

Most new construction here is multi-story condos and apartments.  Densities up to 60 units per acre.  Some townhouses with one or two car garages.  Little or no additional parking on site.  The surrounding lower density single family neighborhoods are the recipients of all the extra cars, parked on their streets.  It creates an unpleasant, hostile environment in those neighborhoods.

I meant for the existing residents that still have houses much smaller than the lot.  I almost never need street parking because I have plenty of driveway and a 2 car carport.  As my neighborhood becomes more and more student focused, my older neighbor likes to complain about the uptick in cars parked along the street.  It seems like a non-issue to me, though.
All of the houses there, even in the original small houses, have 2 car garages and at least two car driveways. So back in the day it was enough. But now most houses have more people with cars living in them then they have room to park and most don't use their garages for parking. There are only a few houses who only have 4 cars or less.

How can you complain about newcomers if you're already part of the "problem"?
I don't know if any of the other neighbors are complaining except maybe the people who live behind the new build. Both my former neighbor and the people behind the new house only seem to park one far in the street in the space in front of their house ( although if they move someone from down.the street or even several streets over will park there). But if I was still living there and had a couple of roommates or kids who had cars and drove, I'd still be a bit upset that the next door neighbor had 10 or more cars parked on the street and I or my roommates/kids had no where to park near my house. Of course I'd be outta there and moving to Alabama ;-).

Plus both I and my former neighbor and the family behind the new house had bought in years ago when most people who lived there were single families and people did park on their driveways with maybe one car on the street. I'm sure your hood is very similar population-wise to what my hood was like 10 years ago. Things change and original owners move out and new owners build up and out and the hood population density changes.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 11:52:54 AM by spartana »

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6982
If you have a decent size lot, why is parking an issue?  You have room for a driveway and/or garage.
My lot is 5200 sf, but it used to be part of a double lot.  In the 1950s, it was legally split front-to-back.
So I have a house BEHIND my house, and the 100 ft long driveway goes to his house and his garage (that used to belong to our house, before it was our house).

So usable space, for us, goes down.  We cannot park in the driveway.  We have 2 off street spots in the front "yard" (as required by zoning).  And only 2 cars and 2 drivers, but what if we get a 3rd car when the teen starts to drive?  (This is unlikely).

Likewise, the back neighbor, at one point, had 4 cars and a motorcycle and 3 bicycles, for one guy.  He's down to 2 SUVs and a motorcycle and the bikes.

Across the street, many of the houses have smaller setbacks.  So, the driveway is only one car wide and one car deep, with a one car garage.  As many of the houses were built in 1940s and 1950s, the one car garage won't actually fit most cars.  I have friends with 2 big cars (they have 4 kids), an RV (which is parked in the driveway), and a work truck.  That's 3 cars on the street for one house.  Many of the other houses nearby are similar - extended family in one house with 4 cars.   3BR rental with 3 single people and 3 cars (but only driveway space for a single car).  Then the ADUs, which add 1-2 cars to a house because you are adding 1-2 drivers.  But not added parking.