Author Topic: honda head gasket decision  (Read 3977 times)

hey mary

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honda head gasket decision
« on: October 10, 2017, 01:47:26 PM »
I'm new to this forum. Got a question.

I drive a 98 honda civic. Bought used for $3500 in 2008. Minimal upkeep.

Then my car overheated, radiator cracked, hoses blew off. I was on a bad freeway position and decide to take next exit rather than pull to a very narrow shoulder lane.

At my shop I insisted they do a do a pressure and leak down (sp?) test on head gasket before installing a new radiator. But after 3 weeks had an moderate overheating episode (just turned up heat full blast and stabilized).  Back to shop they diagnosed "small leak" in head gasket betw cylinder 1 & 2 that they said wasn't evident before rad installation.
 
Because the leak will affect pressure I can't rely on the coolant overflow. And it will just get worse (according to the shop). Replace head gasket is $1200.

I feel my options are:
(1) Try blue devil (which can muck up engine)
(2) Check and top up radiator itself before driving (and carry fluid at all times)
(3) Go buy another old car

I don't think $1200 to replace head gasket is a good idea. May find afterwards that engine block is warped etc.

I think I should do (1) or (2) and drive this civic to the end. I drive mostly local although do use freeways (i'm in LA). I work at home but run a free library in South Central during weekends for fun which is 30 miles each way.

I think the worse thing that happens is ... ok... the very worst thing is a rush hour/freeway overheat engine failure and wait for a tow to direct to junk yard.

Any advice? I don't *love* my car. But its gotten me around.

Mary

lbmustache

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2017, 02:07:55 PM »
Based on what you have described, I would drive the car till it dies and just save the $1200 for another used car. I don't even think your car is worth over $1k, no?

Syonyk

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2017, 04:25:16 PM »
Toss in a container or two of some sort of head gasket weld stuff (Blue Devil isn't one I'm familiar with, but there are a bunch of options at your local parts store), hope it seals it up, and go on with the car.

It probably will, if you're losing it into the cylinders.  That stuff tends to do a good job on smaller leaks.

Carry water and check it often until you learn how much it's using.

BlueMR2

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2017, 04:46:53 PM »
Why aren't you considering just fixing it?  A headgasket failure shouldn't be the end of a car.  Especially one that can be done that cheap.  $1200 and you're car that's otherwise been reliable keeps on going.  Your other options are either spending at least $5k to try and find something that may not even be as reliable now, or doing the same later after you really blow up the engine (rebuilds usually run around $4500 and even junkyard swaps can run over $3000).

RWD

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2017, 06:11:56 PM »
I would also consider properly fixing it. Or selling it to someone else that will ("mechanic's special").

Keep in mind that option #2, topping off coolant, may keep you from overheating but you'll still be dealing with coolant/water mixing with your oil which will destroy your engine anyway.

hey mary

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2017, 08:01:12 PM »
Thanks for responses. I had a look at listings. Same age/model/mileage in LA range from $1400-3300. But they would really vary in condition. My mechanic said that unless I loved the car the repair didn't make sense . He's the one who suggested trying the blue devil, he doesn't have experience with it, but seems to be made specifically for the kind of small crack I have. I mean. At some point you gotta walk away from a car right?  I'm pretty mixed up about it. I tend to drive cars until they're totaled. But I dont know if that always make sense.

GetItRight

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2017, 08:57:38 PM »
The parts to do a head gasket for that car are about $60. DIY. Check head for flat and have a machine shop surface it if it's not. Check block and line sand if it's warped (unlikely I suspect). You'll be all in for around $100 and a solid day of work if no machine work is required, a little more if the head needs to be surfaced.

1. Do not put snake oil in it, it'll only cause more grief when you (or the next guy) goes to fix it proper.
2. Do not keep driving as it is, you could cause additional damage requiring machine work on the head and block.
3. Buying another beater is a waste of money IMO. If you otherwise like the car and have maintained it reasonably well it's better to stick with the devil you know.

frugaliknowit

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 08:22:01 AM »
Unless I were COMPLETELY broke, I would:

Fix it myself if I had the know how or sell it to a "shadetree mechanic" and move on.

acroy

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 09:00:17 AM »
Fix it myself if I had the know how or sell it to a "shadetree mechanic" and move on.

^^

hey mary

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 03:50:22 PM »
Hey thanks for all your advice. I decided NOT to go with the snake oil added to radiator. The product seems hit and miss, either fixes leak or destroys entire engine. Instead I've been checking level of fluid in radiator every morning (hasn't changed) and I've been driving the car. I think would be reasonable to see if it starts to overheat again and then get a second opinion on whether its the head gasket. 

topshot

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 02:48:16 PM »
The only other thing that should cause an overheat is thermostat not working properly, which is an easy fix.

You didn't mention the miles on it. If you're anywhere close to timing belt service (every 100K) I'd do the head at the same time to save some labor if you're not DIYing it.

BDWW

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2017, 03:52:13 PM »
Hey thanks for all your advice. I decided NOT to go with the snake oil added to radiator. The product seems hit and miss, either fixes leak or destroys entire engine. Instead I've been checking level of fluid in radiator every morning (hasn't changed) and I've been driving the car. I think would be reasonable to see if it starts to overheat again and then get a second opinion on whether its the head gasket. 

Tell tale signs of a head gasket or manifold leak are white smoke that smells like antifreeze and/or white gooey blobs in the oil (check on the dipstick/oil filler cap). The white smoke is coolant getting into the cylinder and burning, and the gooey blobs are coolant getting into the oil.

If it doesn't have either of those signs, it could be another issue such as a bad thermostat, bad waterpump, or even a weak radiator cap.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 03:55:20 PM by BDWW »

Syonyk

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2017, 03:57:00 PM »
The only other thing that should cause an overheat is thermostat not working properly, which is an easy fix.

You know, that's a good point I forgot to mention.

If an older car has overheated once, replace the thermostat.  It doesn't matter what the cause is - if you've overheated, it's probably damaged the thermostat and will struggle to maintain cooling going forward.

I've spent... more hours than I should have, chasing this issue - couldn't figure out why a car kept overheating after I lost a coolant hose and got pretty warm.  Turns out, the thermostat wouldn't open properly after that...

APowers

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2017, 07:16:22 PM »
Hey thanks for all your advice. I decided NOT to go with the snake oil added to radiator. The product seems hit and miss, either fixes leak or destroys entire engine. Instead I've been checking level of fluid in radiator every morning (hasn't changed) and I've been driving the car. I think would be reasonable to see if it starts to overheat again and then get a second opinion on whether its the head gasket. 

Tell tale signs of a head gasket or manifold leak are white smoke that smells like antifreeze and/or white gooey blobs in the oil (check on the dipstick/oil filler cap). The white smoke is coolant getting into the cylinder and burning, and the gooey blobs are coolant getting into the oil.

If it doesn't have either of those signs, it could be another issue such as a bad thermostat, bad waterpump, or even a weak radiator cap.

OR, a head gasket can leak the other way-- oil into the coolant. This will show up in the coolant reservoir, as the oil will float to the top and be kind of a whitish layer when you look in.

WranglerBowman

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2017, 02:02:27 PM »
Your best option is to try that head gasket quick fix in a bottle stuff.  If you continued to drive it while it was already overheating, and you were losing coolant, there's a really good chance that the engine got so hot that it's pretty much beyond repair because you warped the block and head too much.  The head can only be machined down a coupe hundredths before the valves will touch the pistons and the entire engine has to be torn apart in order to machine the block.  I know this because I went through this on my wife's Honda Accord a couple years ago.  If she had just pulled over when it started to overheat the head gasket would have been a fairly simple fix but she fried that engine and the block and head were very warped, beyond practical repair costs, and that's with me doing all the labor except the machining.

pecunia

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2017, 07:27:10 PM »
I'm not saying one thing or another, but what tools do you need for a head gasket?  Will normal hand tools and a torque wrench do the job?  Seems to be getting a Clymer's or Chilton's book with the tools shouldn't set you back too much.  I'll bet there are videos on You Tube doing a head gasket on the same engine.

The thing that always gets me is time.  These jobs always take longer than you figure and you've got to "run for parts."  If you've only got the one vehicle this can be bad.  On the other hand, if you live in a place like California, you can use a bike year round so you can get parts.  You also won't end up working in a snow bank at -20 F.  If doing it yourself makes you lose time from work, it may not be worth it.

Sometimes, it is worth the time to get parts from a junk yard, recondition if necessary, pull your parts off and just replace.  I can't see that working for a gasket.

If you are like me, it gives me a big smile to have saved money doing stuff myself.  It's a little like beating the system and giving it to the MAN.

Syonyk

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2017, 07:59:57 PM »
You can't reuse a head gasket, but it's doable with hand tools. Especially with an inline 4.

MightyAl

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Re: honda head gasket decision
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2017, 06:01:49 AM »
Lots and lots of options with a 98 Honda.  I have done dozens of head gasket jobs in my years and have some recommendations.

1.  Don't use any kind of stop leak.  If this does stop the leak it is going to be in every other part of the coolant system causing havoc over time.

2.  You can pull the head and get it repaired.  Your car will be down for at least a couple days.  Buy a full gasket kit and do a search on other things to replace on a 20 year old civic "while you are in there".

3.  Buy a good used head that has already been gone through and swap them out.  This reduces downtime and the cost of a good head for a 98 civic will be less than $400.  You could get lucky and find someone that wants to get one out of their garage for next to nothing.  Then you can get your head checked and try to recoup some of your money.  Someone with little to no mechanical experience could get this done in a weekend if inclined.  The only special tool you will need is a torque wrench for the head bolts.

You should be able to get it back up for $500 to $600 at most.  These cars are pretty easy to work on.