Author Topic: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!  (Read 6240 times)

jforest

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Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« on: March 24, 2012, 08:52:20 AM »
I am in a bit of a bind, I have 2 new job offers, for 2 very different jobs.

The first job is about $10k less than I make now, but has the huge huge huge benefit of being a remote work engagement.  For me, this is a huge benefit, as I can take my gf and daughter and go live in italy for a while.  (potentially have my gf on a student visa so we can stay for more than 90 days in 180)   My daughter is only 2 years old, so no worries about school.  The other benefit of this is that it is shift style work, with no on call, so when work is over, it's over. 

The other job is about 15k MORE than I make now, but would require that I buy a car, or move closer to work so I can walk/bike.  This job would have the benefit of offering me more to learn, but would really tie me in by having to be on call 24/7 and since I would be salaried, most likely working more than just 40 hours a week. 

I am hemming and hawing over this.  Do I consciously downshift my life a bit for that added freedom?  Or do I take the money and try to build up a huge retirement fund so I can retire earlier?

I'm leaning towards the remote job for now, as at the very least I can move out of boston to a lower cost of living location, most likely to maine to be nearer to my parents, so my daughter can spend more time with them. 

I don't expect people to agree, but I would love to hear various opinions on this, mustachians are people I trust!

sol

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 09:03:50 AM »
I'd take the pay cut and move to Italy. 

How's the future potential for both jobs?  Is the pay cut you would take likely to be career permanent?

Parizade

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 09:07:31 AM »
I'm leaning towards the remote job for now, as at the very least I can move out of boston to a lower cost of living location, most likely to maine to be nearer to my parents, so my daughter can spend more time with them. 

I didn't totally understand this part. I thought the remote job required a move to Italy, not Maine.

3 things I would need to know:
  • What is the cost of living in your designated part of Italy?
  • What is the cost of living in the area you would have to move to with the higher paying job?
  • Will the Italy job pay for travel expenses for you and your family (gf and daughter)
Basically if your lifestyle cost will increase by $15K when you take the job that pays $15K more it's a wash, so take the job that gives you more time with your family.

On the other hand, if the Italy job requires a lifestyle cost increase as well as paying you less money you need to determine if you can afford that choice at all.

jforest

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 02:45:57 PM »
Yes, the remote job basically gives me complete location independence, so I would head to italy in the fall.  I have a vacation planned there for 5 weeks already, if I take this job, instead I will go for 3 months, and not have rent back home.  I plan on moving to maine after the fact, which lowers my cost of living significantly from boston.

Sorry for being less clear! 


Both jobs would provide decent career mobility/learning, as both companies are large.  Where I am now is a huge university that has been around forever, but any career advancement there is pretty limited as the jobs are fairly limited in scale.  I am a unix sysadmin if I didn't mention that before. 

Parizade

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 03:51:59 PM »
oh heck, I'd take the remote job in a heartbeat then. No commuting expenses and more time with your daughter and gf.

menorman

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 09:19:40 PM »
I'd be packing my bags and boxes if I were in your position. Definitely take the vacation and throw your stuff in a storage unit up in Maine so you get that whole fiasco out of the way before leaving. When you come back, just pick up a place to stay and retrieve the stuff.

Mactrader

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 09:27:26 PM »
Lifestyle > salary. Provided you can live at that level. I'm sure there's 15k worth of fat you can trim. On top of no commuting expenses.

shedinator

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 10:06:21 PM »
Take the one that's going to make you happier.

arebelspy

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 09:41:16 AM »
So many say take the remote job.  That's the first instinct of the Mustachian mind.

I'm going to offer contrary advice, though it may work out to the same end, it may not.

The post I agree with 100% is this:
Take the one that's going to make you happier.

HOWEVER let's add a caveat to that: take the one that will make you happier overall.  Not in the short run, but considering everything.

Due to hedonistic adaptation, you will likely be just about as happy in the job that earns 25K more than the job that earns 25K less (15k more than current vs 10k less than current = 25k difference, not just 15, as others have stated).  Not definitely, but possibly, and perhaps probably.  Or maybe it works out so you're only slightly less happy in the higher paying job.

If that extra 25K leads to a faster ER that ends up making your happier for years to come.  If that short term slightly less happiness for more long term happiness occurs, I'd say don't take the one that pays 25K less.

In any case, it's all about shed's post that I quoted.  Take the one that will make you happier.  Maybe that's job #1.  Maybe that's job #2.  Considering everything there is to consider.  Then go with the choice that will make your life the best.

Good luck with your decision.
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jforest

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 06:36:37 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the replies!

This is basically why I have been having a tough time with this decision. 

If that extra 25K leads to a faster ER that ends up making your happier for years to come.  If that short term slightly less happiness for more long term happiness occurs, I'd say don't take the one that pays 25K less.

I am leaning towards the remote job at this moment, because who knows what the future may bring.  I may not live long enough to retire!  Companies go under, etc etc. 

Thanks again for all the input!

Mirwen

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 09:23:21 PM »
It seems that the remote job would give you more flexibility to live in a lower cost of living area and commute less.  I would look at the housing cost near the job with the higher salary.  If housing isn't super cheap, I would go with the remote work job.  Remember to calculate your true wage.  Expensive housing and/or a long commute could eat up most of that 25k difference (along with taxes).

shedinator

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 10:11:51 PM »
So many say take the remote job.  That's the first instinct of the Mustachian mind.

I'm going to offer contrary advice, though it may work out to the same end, it may not.

The post I agree with 100% is this:
Take the one that's going to make you happier.

HOWEVER let's add a caveat to that: take the one that will make you happier overall.  Not in the short run, but considering everything.

Due to hedonistic adaptation, you will likely be just about as happy in the job that earns 25K more than the job that earns 25K less (15k more than current vs 10k less than current = 25k difference, not just 15, as others have stated).  Not definitely, but possibly, and perhaps probably.  Or maybe it works out so you're only slightly less happy in the higher paying job.

If that extra 25K leads to a faster ER that ends up making your happier for years to come.  If that short term slightly less happiness for more long term happiness occurs, I'd say don't take the one that pays 25K less.

In any case, it's all about shed's post that I quoted.  Take the one that will make you happier.  Maybe that's job #1.  Maybe that's job #2.  Considering everything there is to consider.  Then go with the choice that will make your life the best.

Good luck with your decision.

Yup, same page.

arebelspy

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2012, 10:16:17 PM »
I am leaning towards the remote job at this moment, because who knows what the future may bring.  I may not live long enough to retire!  Companies go under, etc etc. 


Awesome, glad our random ramblings and advice helped you come closer to a decision.  Definitely let us know what you decide!
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

jforest

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2012, 08:05:17 AM »
It seems that the remote job would give you more flexibility to live in a lower cost of living area and commute less.  I would look at the housing cost near the job with the higher salary.  If housing isn't super cheap, I would go with the remote work job.  Remember to calculate your true wage.  Expensive housing and/or a long commute could eat up most of that 25k difference (along with taxes).

I actually live within driving distance of the higher paying job, but I would have to buy a car, there is VERY little in the way of walking distance in that area, and would sort of isolate my gf and daughter.

WageSlave

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2012, 01:55:03 PM »
I think this has already been hinted at, but just to be clear: I'd apply a Your Money or Your Life kind of analysis to the situation.  The pay difference is $25k between each job, but that's just the "advertised" difference.  You have to look at the whole "cost" of either job.  The appears-to-be-higher-pay job requires you to buy a car, which implies you'll have commuting expenses as well.  Plus you'll have more time invested, with commuting and being salaried (which you said means more than 40 hours/week).  Are there other expenses associated with either job?  Equipment you have to buy?  Uniforms?  And what about tax implications?

You need to figure out what your actual take-home pay will be from each job.  Subtract taxes, equipment (including car, gas, car insurance, car license registration, uniforms, meals, etc).  And I'd be surprised if the difference between the two jobs was still $25k.

Finally, divide that actual take-home pay number by the number of hours you spend "involved" with work.  I.e., not just time at the office or doing stuff, but commuting and whatnot.  You may be surprised to find that the seemingly lower-paying job actually has a better "hourly rate" than the other.  Maybe.

$25k seems like a lot of money, but that could easily be eaten up in associated costs and your time.

Of course, the YMYL kind of ignores intangibles, like job satisfaction, how much you learn, future opportunities, job security (if that's important to you), etc.

IMHO, being on call 24/7 sounds scary to me.  Do you personally know people who work at this company?  Some companies will really abuse you if you agree to be on call 24/7.  Even if they don't abuse you, there's still the idea constantly hanging over your head that you're only a phone call away from work.  And it's almost certain there will be at least one time when you are in the middle of living your life, and you get a work call.  Maybe your daughter is doing something new, maybe you're putting a ring on your girlfriend's finger, maybe you are with a close friend/relative on their death bed... I'm quite cynical, but I'm certain that there will come a time when you get a work call at the least appropriate moment.


jforest

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2012, 06:29:08 PM »
You need to figure out what your actual take-home pay will be from each job.  Subtract taxes, equipment (including car, gas, car insurance, car license registration, uniforms, meals, etc).  And I'd be surprised if the difference between the two jobs was still $25k.

Finally, divide that actual take-home pay number by the number of hours you spend "involved" with work.  I.e., not just time at the office or doing stuff, but commuting and whatnot.  You may be surprised to find that the seemingly lower-paying job actually has a better "hourly rate" than the other.  Maybe.

$25k seems like a lot of money, but that could easily be eaten up in associated costs and your time.

Of course, the YMYL kind of ignores intangibles, like job satisfaction, how much you learn, future opportunities, job security (if that's important to you), etc.

IMHO, being on call 24/7 sounds scary to me.  Do you personally know people who work at this company?  Some companies will really abuse you if you agree to be on call 24/7.  Even if they don't abuse you, there's still the idea constantly hanging over your head that you're only a phone call away from work.  And it's almost certain there will be at least one time when you are in the middle of living your life, and you get a work call.  Maybe your daughter is doing something new, maybe you're putting a ring on your girlfriend's finger, maybe you are with a close friend/relative on their death bed... I'm quite cynical, but I'm certain that there will come a time when you get a work call at the least appropriate moment.

Oh yes, the remote work job means no need for nice button up shirts for work, and such.  So there is a big cost savings there, as well as no car needed for now, and I can move to a lower cost of living area.  First year, figure 8k for a car, plus taxes, plus insurance, so say 10k up front the first year for a car.  (decent used) and then of course gas and maintenance.  I would probably end up getting a car, after italy, if I moved up to maine, as the public transport is fairly minimal at best.  But I would plan on not driving it much, keeping gas/maint low.  Still, many thousands on that too. 

The real details of the income are this, I'll either make 85k at the low end job, or 105k (plus 5k signing bonus) at the high end job.  in my mind  the 25k at that level is not nearly as big a deal as it could be, if I was making 55k or 80k. 

I have been on call before, and yes, it can suck.  Very badly.  That is another benefit of the lower price job, no on call.  Time is worth a lot.  Very quickly they jobs work out to the same dollar per hour, if i work 50 hours a week at the 105k vs 40 hours at the 85k.  That alone is a great bit of info.  Supposedly there is the possibility of bonuses (15% a year) at the 105k gig.  But i don't set much faith in that stuff if the economy tanks again. 


Arbor33

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2012, 10:23:19 AM »
As you and matt_garman have pointed out, the difference in pay seems like it could be negligible.

Take the work from home job for your daughter. She's only two for a year and you have no idea how long you'll get to be a daddy.

jforest

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2012, 06:00:33 PM »
As you and matt_garman have pointed out, the difference in pay seems like it could be negligible.

Take the work from home job for your daughter. She's only two for a year and you have no idea how long you'll get to be a daddy.

It does mean having to marry my GF so she can have free healthcare, but well, it doesn't really change much at all from what we have now.  Just sort of closes a door on a chapter of my life.  Argh decisions!

Oh, and slight update, the 105k plus 5k bonus job agreed to bump up vacation by a week a year.  Gotta love how hard they are making this decision.

jforest

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2012, 06:35:45 PM »
Aaand I have made my decision, the remote job it is! 

Thanks again to everyone!

arebelspy

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2012, 07:56:23 PM »
Congrats and good luck!
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Arbor33

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2012, 07:46:47 AM »
Congrats and good luck!

+1!!!!

I think you made the right choice! Care to share why you chose to go remote?

Physics

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2012, 08:51:27 AM »
Indeed, have fun in Italy!

James

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2012, 11:44:44 AM »
Congrats!  Sounds like you made the right decision for you, I would have leaned toward the remote one as well.  Enjoy it and don't look back!

jforest

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Re: Help with deciding on one of two new jobs!
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2012, 05:12:27 PM »
Congrats and good luck!

+1!!!!

I think you made the right choice! Care to share why you chose to go remote?

The biggest reason I decided to go remote was that I only have this one life.  Why not spend it doing awesome things? 

I am also going to apply for an "extended stay" visa to italy, as I will be employed full time from outside italy, I believe it should be doable!  That would mean we can stay the year.  (OR MORE)  Hey, if I can stay long enough, I can get a citizenship, and wouldn't that be cool?  Dual citizenships for me, my gf/soonwife, and our daughter!

I think it's a hell of an adventure too.  I would rather have adventures than sit in an office all day.  I know it will still be work, day to day, but hey.  This is a good deal!