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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: FastStache on March 03, 2015, 03:06:05 PM

Title: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: FastStache on March 03, 2015, 03:06:05 PM
Let me start off by saying I have a pretty high savings rate, maxing out my 401K and IRA yearly.

I've been on the fence about purchasing a used Corvette. I'm not trying to be talked out of the decision, but I'd like to understand what the financial implications are. I personally think at this moment I would have a lot of fun driving this thing around.

Current Car: 4Kish
Looking at 15K car
Drive about 3K miles to and from work a year

I would likely finance it, and thinking I could get 3%, and I would just invest like normal and pay off the loan over the years.

Yearly difference
Insurance: 250 more a year
Gas: about 50 dollar difference since I have to go to premium assuming current gas prices
Repairs/Maintenance: I'm going to say none since the Vette will have a lot less miles than my current car
Interest: about 250 a year
Depreciation: not sure a Vette will lose value being driven 3K miles a year, assuming inflation stays normal
Assume it depreciates .15 cents a mile, but inflation is 3%, the car will stay at about the same value.
Opportunity cost: (3000 (payments) + 250 + 50 + 250) * 08 = 284
total: 834 per year

Is my math way off? If this is the case I would seriously consider getting one.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: dunhamjr on March 03, 2015, 03:12:05 PM
doesnt look like you are considering the opp costs on spending $11k over your current car.  that $11k would be earning interest somewhere else if you weren't spending it right?
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 03, 2015, 03:26:59 PM
Get the true insurance cost from your agent. Also get the cost if you were to keep your current car and add in the Vette, and play with both as the daily driver on the insurance to see the rates.

Also, C4 or C5? There will be different running costs that you may be missing, don't think that since it is only driven 3k a year it won't have issues. Tires are expensive, factor those in every few years. Electrical problems are relatively common, apparently you can't ground to fiberglass.

I was considering one to replace my Miata (only car). When I factored in 2-3 sets of tires, it became too expensive (I autocross, and would drive it in the winter in Chicago).

What exactly are you looking for it to do? Make you look cool? Throw you back in your seat? Top-down fun? I love Vette's, but there may be another car that gets everything you're looking for that makes more financial sense. That being said, I do consider them one of the very best bargains out there and can only commend you for getting one.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: FastStache on March 03, 2015, 03:49:36 PM
doesnt look like you are considering the opp costs on spending $11k over your current car.  that $11k would be earning interest somewhere else if you weren't spending it right?

This is accounted for already in the opportunity cost. 3K payments per year. I'm only missing out on the opportunity cost as the vette itself won't really depreciate it.

Get the true insurance cost from your agent. Also get the cost if you were to keep your current car and add in the Vette, and play with both as the daily driver on the insurance to see the rates.

Also, C4 or C5? There will be different running costs that you may be missing, don't think that since it is only driven 3k a year it won't have issues. Tires are expensive, factor those in every few years. Electrical problems are relatively common, apparently you can't ground to fiberglass.

I was considering one to replace my Miata (only car). When I factored in 2-3 sets of tires, it became too expensive (I autocross, and would drive it in the winter in Chicago).

What exactly are you looking for it to do? Make you look cool? Throw you back in your seat? Top-down fun? I love Vette's, but there may be another car that gets everything you're looking for that makes more financial sense. That being said, I do consider them one of the very best bargains out there and can only commend you for getting one.

For the insurance quote I put in a VIN number of a car that I want on Geico's site and that's how I came up with the number. Definitely a C5 or an early C6. I'm going to do my due diligence and get very familiar with the car with help on the Vette forums.

I'm not worried about tires being an issue. Even if I only get 20K out of a set, that's still 7 years in between a set of tires. The electrical problems are what I would be a lot more concerned with, and that is what I need to do my homework on.

I'd do for the throw you in the back of your seat fun it would provide, and it does seem like a great performance bargain.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 03, 2015, 03:57:40 PM
I'd avoid a C6 at that price, personally. Not an all encompassing statement, but the C5 will be nicer and depreciate less/appreciate more. I also suspect the C5's are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

May also want to investigate 2003 Camaro SS's and Firechickens if you're looking for the "throw you back in your seatness". Probably about half your budget, but I haven't shopped those in a long time so I could be way off. Also consider Mustangs, a LOT of car for the money--arguably a better bargain than the Corvette (I wouldn't take that side of the argument though). Or it could just be that you're set on the Vette, in which case have at it!
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: MoneyCat on March 03, 2015, 04:07:46 PM
The worst thing about getting a Corvette is that your expenses will go sky-high due to the demands of all the bimbos you will attract with it.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Exflyboy on March 03, 2015, 04:30:01 PM
Lets see.. Oh yes a car that will easily do 150mph that you can only do 65 in most places and you can barley get a toothbrush in.

Yeah that makes sense..;)

Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: trailrated on March 03, 2015, 04:54:56 PM
The worst thing about getting a Corvette is that your expenses will go sky-high due to the demands of all the bimbos you will attract with it.

LOL!!!
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Allen on March 03, 2015, 05:03:15 PM
The worst thing about getting a Corvette is that your expenses will go sky-high due to the demands of all the bimbos you will attract with it.
Best argument FOR a sports car I've heard.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Exflyboy on March 03, 2015, 05:07:11 PM
I'm sure my Wife would agree...:)
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Chuck on March 03, 2015, 06:00:52 PM
The worst thing about getting a Corvette is that your expenses will go sky-high due to the demands of all the bimbos you will attract with it.
Hey! Bimbos need love too.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Paul der Krake on March 03, 2015, 06:56:51 PM
If you drive so little, wouldn't it make more sense to keep your current cheap car while allocating a grand or two per year to blow on renting fancy cars, allowing you to try different models?
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: sol on March 03, 2015, 07:01:03 PM
Did he just claim this car would appreciate over time?  With inflation?  Don't cars usually depreciate instead?
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: k-vette on March 03, 2015, 07:37:15 PM
I tell myself that when I'm FIRE and accounts do better than planned I'm "allowed" to get a corvette.

I'd also agree that a good C5 might be a better car at the price you're looking for.  Luckily Corvettes with low miles aren't too hard to find.  Hard to say about depreciation though.  I would think it's still going to lose some value.  Others already mentioned tires - just make sure theyre in good shape when you buy.  Gas mileage is actually good with a c5 or newer.  My first car was a C3...  AWFUL mileage.  13 is the best i ever squeezed out of it.  Sold that long ago thankfully.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: JLee on March 03, 2015, 07:54:22 PM
Did he just claim this car would appreciate over time?  With inflation?  Don't cars usually depreciate instead?
Not the last four I've sold.

'99 Toyota Tacoma
'97 Lexus LX450
'04 Cadillac CTS-V
'04 Subaru Forester XT

All sold for more than I paid, and I got to enjoy them for 1-2 years.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 03, 2015, 08:18:16 PM
Did he just claim this car would appreciate over time?  With inflation?  Don't cars usually depreciate instead?

At 3k miles a year, I would expect a Corvette to depreciate a LOT less than a regular car. I'd not be surprised if he ends up selling for what he paid, or more.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 03, 2015, 08:19:54 PM
Lets see.. Oh yes a car that will easily do 150mph that you can only do 65 in most places and you can barley get a toothbrush in.

Yeah that makes sense..;)

I fit my hockey bag in the trunk of a C5. Your argument is invalid.

Also, easy and relatively inexpensive to take it out on the track, or at least the autocross course.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Ricky on March 03, 2015, 08:41:14 PM
I calculated a total extra cost of $1000 per year with rough estimates over the course of 10 years. It's probably slightly over that since I didn't count the opportunity costs for extra gas, maintenance, and insurance, and interest, but that presumably would be fairly low anyway. There's also the potential for tax deductions for IRA contributions. So we'll just round to $100/mo.

Is $100/mo worth it as a "subscription" fee to owning the Corvette? I would look at it like that.

I know you're not looking to be talked out of the decision, but I wouldn't personally consider it unless I had investment income that was at least theoretically generating that amount or more already.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Exflyboy on March 03, 2015, 11:00:02 PM
Lets see.. Oh yes a car that will easily do 150mph that you can only do 65 in most places and you can barley get a toothbrush in.

Yeah that makes sense..;)

I fit my hockey bag in the trunk of a C5. Your argument is invalid.

Also, easy and relatively inexpensive to take it out on the track, or at least the autocross course.

My airplane did 220mph in straight line over mountain and through clouds.. Still was a stupid thing to own though.. OK I did have about $90k into it though..:)
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on March 04, 2015, 06:24:35 AM
As a car guy I think its important to spend money in a way that's aligned with your values. I would recommend buying the car for cash, and finding a private party car, haggle below true market value and use the cash purchase as leverage, if you do it right you very well may be able to own that car for years before it depreciates below what you pay for it. Personally at the very early stages of my accumulation phase I wouldn't dump 20% of my portfolio into a vehicle. I can totally see myself getting a sports car that represents 2-4% of my portfolio in 5-7 years. At that point it will be a small blip on the road to FIRE.

DYODD and make sure you will enjoy the car long term.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: FastStache on March 04, 2015, 07:51:21 AM
As a car guy I think its important to spend money in a way that's aligned with your values. I would recommend buying the car for cash, and finding a private party car, haggle below true market value and use the cash purchase as leverage, if you do it right you very well may be able to own that car for years before it depreciates below what you pay for it. Personally at the very early stages of my accumulation phase I wouldn't dump 20% of my portfolio into a vehicle. I can totally see myself getting a sports car that represents 2-4% of my portfolio in 5-7 years. At that point it will be a small blip on the road to FIRE.

DYODD and make sure you will enjoy the car long term.

This would make sense if I can get the car below market value. I'm not going to be a more expensive car if I finance or pay cash for it. This is an interesting thought for sure.

The difference in price between my car and vette will be 11K so this is about 7-8% at the moment. 

Is it possible to get a loan for a private sale? Then I just invest the difference? I believe I can do this with ebay, but I don't want to buy a car like this through ebay.

I know I would enjoy this car for long term and it's not an irreversible decision either. 

I calculated a total extra cost of $1000 per year with rough estimates over the course of 10 years. It's probably slightly over that since I didn't count the opportunity costs for extra gas, maintenance, and insurance, and interest, but that presumably would be fairly low anyway. There's also the potential for tax deductions for IRA contributions. So we'll just round to $100/mo.

Is $100/mo worth it as a "subscription" fee to owning the Corvette? I would look at it like that.

I know you're not looking to be talked out of the decision, but I wouldn't personally consider it unless I had investment income that was at least theoretically generating that amount or more already.

Can you share your math on this versus what I have posted? I would still be maxing out my 401K and IRA as before.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 04, 2015, 07:53:12 AM
As a car guy I think its important to spend money in a way that's aligned with your values. I would recommend buying the car for cash, and finding a private party car, haggle below true market value and use the cash purchase as leverage, if you do it right you very well may be able to own that car for years before it depreciates below what you pay for it. Personally at the very early stages of my accumulation phase I wouldn't dump 20% of my portfolio into a vehicle. I can totally see myself getting a sports car that represents 2-4% of my portfolio in 5-7 years. At that point it will be a small blip on the road to FIRE.



Couple of things here: First of all, the cash vs. loan shouldn't really make a difference. You're paying the seller the whole thing up front, so it will be no difference to them. Then, why pay cash when he can get financing at 3%? Assuming he has the capital to pay it off if it hits the fan, shouldn't that money be invested elsewhere? Cheap money is cheap.

Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 04, 2015, 07:55:04 AM

I calculated a total extra cost of $1000 per year with rough estimates over the course of 10 years. It's probably slightly over that since I didn't count the opportunity costs for extra gas, maintenance, and insurance, and interest, but that presumably would be fairly low anyway. There's also the potential for tax deductions for IRA contributions. So we'll just round to $100/mo.

Is $100/mo worth it as a "subscription" fee to owning the Corvette? I would look at it like that.

I know you're not looking to be talked out of the decision, but I wouldn't personally consider it unless I had investment income that was at least theoretically generating that amount or more already.

Can you share your math on this versus what I have posted? I would still be maxing out my 401K and IRA as before.

He wasn't counting in any residual value left when you're done with the vehicle.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Sid Hoffman on March 04, 2015, 07:59:32 AM
Lets see.. Oh yes a car that will easily do 150mph that you can only do 65 in most places and you can barley get a toothbrush in.

Barely fit a toothbrush in the Corvette, huh?

(http://blogs.cars.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e201630370c82b970d-800wi)

That's a full-size suitcase, a carry-on, a duffel bag, and TWO sets of golf clubs.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 04, 2015, 08:17:40 AM
Lets see.. Oh yes a car that will easily do 150mph that you can only do 65 in most places and you can barley get a toothbrush in.

Barely fit a toothbrush in the Corvette, huh?

(http://blogs.cars.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e201630370c82b970d-800wi)

That's a full-size suitcase, a carry-on, a duffel bag, and TWO sets of golf clubs.

You still have room for 2 big duffel bags on top of the golf bags too. Probably would have to put them in through the front, with the hatch closed, but it would cause no discomfort to either passenger. Would limit rearward visibility though.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on March 04, 2015, 08:21:19 AM
As a car guy I think its important to spend money in a way that's aligned with your values. I would recommend buying the car for cash, and finding a private party car, haggle below true market value and use the cash purchase as leverage, if you do it right you very well may be able to own that car for years before it depreciates below what you pay for it. Personally at the very early stages of my accumulation phase I wouldn't dump 20% of my portfolio into a vehicle. I can totally see myself getting a sports car that represents 2-4% of my portfolio in 5-7 years. At that point it will be a small blip on the road to FIRE.



Couple of things here: First of all, the cash vs. loan shouldn't really make a difference. You're paying the seller the whole thing up front, so it will be no difference to them. Then, why pay cash when he can get financing at 3%? Assuming he has the capital to pay it off if it hits the fan, shouldn't that money be invested elsewhere? Cheap money is cheap.

I have purchased/sold 3 cars and 4 motorcycles for myself over the past 7 years via craigslist I have also gone with family/friends to help negotiate over a dozen times. Trust me, the negotiations are different with check in hand vs cash. Something about a wad of 20 or 50 dollar bills that seems to make people want to part with their possessions that much quicker and for less than they planned.

I guess the financing is personal choice, I would rather own something like a vehicle outright, esp with insurance difference on a clear title vs one with a lien on it. I would chose the instant 3% reduction in interest and lien vs investing and hoping to beat that 3% in the market.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: TheOldestYoungMan on March 04, 2015, 08:37:32 AM
I bought a bmw z4 used with very low mileage, and sold it for slightly more than I paid for it about 14 months later.  The reasons I was able to do this:

1.  The age of the car seems to disproportionately affect the depreciation, so you don't end up paying extra for very low miles.  But when you sell it you can hold out based on this.  It also gives you a cushion of miles you can drive it without affecting the value.  As long as it's below some arbitrary "miles per year" the buyer has in their mind as reasonable, it works out.
2.  The new models had come out, with a starting value a full 50% higher than the previous models.  So my used one, while still being super fun to drive, was a vastly cheaper option, so alot more buyers could be interested.

I still lost money on the deal, as the markets were roaring and that money wasn't invested. 

I'm glad I did it when I did.  I had a ton of fun driving that car.  But it was just that, for fun.  I got it out of my system.  If I did end up with a massive amount of cash for some reason in the future, I'd consider it again, but that's only if I had a level of wealth that let me own my own racetrack as well.

Tires:  Every 7 years might be right, but likely your first set will be sooner.  Also, they aren't necessarily just a little bit more expensive.  Each individual tire on the z4 was as much as a set of tires on the truck I had before.  If you plan to hold on for awhile, tire shopping becomes like every other expensive thing, you keep an eye on it and watch for deals.

Cops:  You aren't getting a warning.  As an obviously rich SoB you are getting a ticket.

Gas:  My fuel costs went down, as the z4 got 39 mpg when I wasn't zooming.  Most fuel efficient car I've ever owned, only car I had to pay a "gas guzzler tax" when I bought.  Of course, the worst mileage I ever got was less than one mile per gallon, when I was, um, lets just say, exploring the boundaries of my commute time at 4 a.m.

Other people:  There's gonna be commentary.  I tried not to let it get to me, but it did.

Enjoy it!  If it stops being fun you aren't stuck.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 04, 2015, 08:43:28 AM
Oh, one other [small and not a hard and fast rule] thing: Buy in October through February, and buy it from a place that gets crappy weather.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: JLee on March 04, 2015, 10:48:54 AM
As a car guy I think its important to spend money in a way that's aligned with your values. I would recommend buying the car for cash, and finding a private party car, haggle below true market value and use the cash purchase as leverage, if you do it right you very well may be able to own that car for years before it depreciates below what you pay for it. Personally at the very early stages of my accumulation phase I wouldn't dump 20% of my portfolio into a vehicle. I can totally see myself getting a sports car that represents 2-4% of my portfolio in 5-7 years. At that point it will be a small blip on the road to FIRE.



Couple of things here: First of all, the cash vs. loan shouldn't really make a difference. You're paying the seller the whole thing up front, so it will be no difference to them. Then, why pay cash when he can get financing at 3%? Assuming he has the capital to pay it off if it hits the fan, shouldn't that money be invested elsewhere? Cheap money is cheap.

I have purchased/sold 3 cars and 4 motorcycles for myself over the past 7 years via craigslist I have also gone with family/friends to help negotiate over a dozen times. Trust me, the negotiations are different with check in hand vs cash. Something about a wad of 20 or 50 dollar bills that seems to make people want to part with their possessions that much quicker and for less than they planned.

I guess the financing is personal choice, I would rather own something like a vehicle outright, esp with insurance difference on a clear title vs one with a lien on it. I would chose the instant 3% reduction in interest and lien vs investing and hoping to beat that 3% in the market.
Cash is also nice because it is not a fixed amount.  You can't really negotiate below the amount of a check you already have.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Forcus on March 04, 2015, 10:58:34 AM
My only comment is to make sure you are getting a good one. Besides the Carfax, etc., I'd even have a local Corvette specialist take a look. I've seen so many that looked great but had been wrecked. If you want to get your money back out of it I'd start with a clean one.

C5 Z06's are a great value. There is one locally that is a 2002, has I think 12k miles on it, never been in rain or snow (you'll read / hear that a lot but I believe it on this one) and it's $20k. $20k isn't cheap but if you can keep the miles somewhat low it would probably be worth every bit paid in a few years.

Try the Corvette forums too. Lots for sale.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 04, 2015, 10:59:38 AM
Huh. Maybe it is different, since my dad always did it with a loan from his credit union where they just deposited that amount in his account then he went and bought the car, so effectively it was cash for the sake of the transaction.

Now that I think about it, he was probably using an unsecured loan.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 04, 2015, 11:02:17 AM
My only comment is to make sure you are getting a good one. Besides the Carfax, etc., I'd even have a local Corvette specialist take a look. I've seen so many that looked great but had been wrecked. If you want to get your money back out of it I'd start with a clean one.

C5 Z06's are a great value. There is one locally that is a 2002, has I think 12k miles on it, never been in rain or snow (you'll read / hear that a lot but I believe it on this one) and it's $20k. $20k isn't cheap but if you can keep the miles somewhat low it would probably be worth every bit paid in a few years.

Try the Corvette forums too. Lots for sale.

Arguably the best Corvette value is actually the 2001 Z06, since it only had 385 horsepower vs the 405(?) in the later years.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: TreeTired on March 04, 2015, 11:09:08 AM
Quote
Gas: about 50 dollar difference since I have to go to premium assuming current gas prices 

Actually I think they run fine on regular gas,  plus get good mileage on the highway. 
ok,  I may be wrong on that.   Not sure what years I read can take regular gas....
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Bob W on March 04, 2015, 12:47:42 PM
This phase will pass.   Here is what I did.   I bought a used Miata for a decent price in the winter.  I drove the piss out of it for 1.5 years then sold it for more than I paid in the spring.    Best deals on convertible sports cars are in southern cali and fl in the winter.    There is a huge price differential often but you may have missed the window for winter discount. 

So one last thing.   Only buy red.  Red period the end.  That way when you sell it in 2-3 years,  which you will do,  you can resell it fast.   I can't believe there would be many buyers for that orangish looking vette in the picture. 

If you are super into sports cars you could always get your dealers license and buy them at auction.   You can drive them until they sell for 2K more than you paid.  You would always be driving a cool new to you car.   This would turn the happiness curve that MMM talks about on its head.   You would be thrilled to buy the car and by the time the fun and new wore off you would be thrilled to sell it for a profit and rethrilled to buy another car.   You could easily make 10K a year doing this.    Cool cars,  big extra income,  good times. 
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Gone Fishing on March 04, 2015, 01:01:24 PM
If someone else said it, I missed it.  A $15k Corvette is going to have repairs and maintainance.  Might get lucky if you buy it, drive it 1-2 years and sell it, but the years will catch up to you!
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Forcus on March 04, 2015, 02:02:26 PM
If someone else said it, I missed it.  A $15k Corvette is going to have repairs and maintainance.  Might get lucky if you buy it, drive it 1-2 years and sell it, but the years will catch up to you!

I think that's mostly true, an extra $5-7k buys you a lot fewer miles and fewer problems. I can find a C5 for 13-14k but they are usually ratty, high miles, or have previous damage. $20k is on the low end of the nice ones, from what I've seen $23k will get you a super nice, great history C5. But of course as with all things there is a budgetary limit.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: southern granny on March 05, 2015, 09:05:13 AM
I don't think you will be able to justify it on a spreadsheet.  You just need to decide if it is something that you are willing to sacrifice for. Do you want it enough to work an extra year for.. or cut back on other expenses to cover.  We have a classic car that we probably don't drive 1000 miles a year, but it is worth the extra expense for us.  It is practically a member of the family.  It is sitting warm and snug in an enclosed carport and my 2013 sonata is buried under two feet of snow.... go figure.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: frugaldrummer on March 05, 2015, 09:39:58 AM
Also, bear in mind that repairs, when needed, may be more expensive on a high end car. I don't know about corvette s, but my son has a Jag with just $100k miles. Beautiful car, he got it real cheap...but it is going to need a catalytic converter replaced and it'll cost a lot more than usual since apparently no after market parts can fit.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: lise on March 05, 2015, 10:25:32 AM
Also, bear in mind that repairs, when needed, may be more expensive on a high end car. I don't know about corvette s, but my son has a Jag with just $100k miles. Beautiful car, he got it real cheap...but it is going to need a catalytic converter replaced and it'll cost a lot more than usual since apparently no after market parts can fit.

Jag's are notorious for needing expensive repairs.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 05, 2015, 10:49:11 AM
Also, bear in mind that repairs, when needed, may be more expensive on a high end car. I don't know about corvette s, but my son has a Jag with just $100k miles. Beautiful car, he got it real cheap...but it is going to need a catalytic converter replaced and it'll cost a lot more than usual since apparently no after market parts can fit.

A Corvette is still just a Chevy, don't forget. Also with one of the most robust and well developed aftermarkets there is. Comparing it to a British car is, frankly, laughable. There is a reason your son got it real cheap.

(Full disclosure: I like Jags and other weird cars)
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Exflyboy on March 05, 2015, 11:40:48 AM
Yeah a guy I knew at my last workplace bought an Aston Martin.... of course everyone was oohing and ahhing over it... For some reason they didn't do the same with my 97 Dodge Neon parked next to it..:)
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 05, 2015, 12:33:34 PM
Yeah a guy I knew at my last workplace bought an Aston Martin.... of course everyone was oohing and ahhing over it... For some reason they didn't do the same with my 97 Dodge Neon parked next to it..:)

Was it a 2 door RT? I always liked those, even though they were pretty horrible compared to what they should have been.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: frugal_engineer on March 05, 2015, 02:09:47 PM
Quote
Gas: about 50 dollar difference since I have to go to premium assuming current gas prices 

Actually I think they run fine on regular gas,  plus get good mileage on the highway. 
ok,  I may be wrong on that.   Not sure what years I read can take regular gas....

LS-engines are high compression and need premium.  They'll adjust and retard timing to run on regular in a pinch but its not recommended for all the time.  That will reduce efficiency.  Keep in mind a vette with a manual can easily do 30mpg highway due to the super low final gear and desire of the engine to hum along at 1000-1500rpm, so you fuel cost increase might not be as much as you think if its highway driving.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: stlbrah on March 05, 2015, 02:12:48 PM
I'd avoid a C6 at that price, personally. Not an all encompassing statement, but the C5 will be nicer and depreciate less/appreciate more. I also suspect the C5's are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

May also want to investigate 2003 Camaro SS's and Firechickens if you're looking for the "throw you back in your seatness". Probably about half your budget, but I haven't shopped those in a long time so I could be way off. Also consider Mustangs, a LOT of car for the money--arguably a better bargain than the Corvette (I wouldn't take that side of the argument though). Or it could just be that you're set on the Vette, in which case have at it!

2003??? Didn't they discontinue f-bodies in 2002?
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: frugal_engineer on March 05, 2015, 02:17:13 PM
I'd avoid a C6 at that price, personally. Not an all encompassing statement, but the C5 will be nicer and depreciate less/appreciate more. I also suspect the C5's are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

May also want to investigate 2003 Camaro SS's and Firechickens if you're looking for the "throw you back in your seatness". Probably about half your budget, but I haven't shopped those in a long time so I could be way off. Also consider Mustangs, a LOT of car for the money--arguably a better bargain than the Corvette (I wouldn't take that side of the argument though). Or it could just be that you're set on the Vette, in which case have at it!

2003??? Didn't they discontinue f-bodies in 2002?

Yes.  I have an '01 SS.  If you have the extra $5k (rough difference i think between a C5 and F-body) I'd get the vette.  The f-body has the same go-go parts, but the better handling in the vette is worth the difference IMO. 

Also, the back seats in an F-body are good for cargo (fits a lot actually) or children only, so it may as well be a 2-seater.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 05, 2015, 03:58:59 PM
I'd avoid a C6 at that price, personally. Not an all encompassing statement, but the C5 will be nicer and depreciate less/appreciate more. I also suspect the C5's are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

May also want to investigate 2003 Camaro SS's and Firechickens if you're looking for the "throw you back in your seatness". Probably about half your budget, but I haven't shopped those in a long time so I could be way off. Also consider Mustangs, a LOT of car for the money--arguably a better bargain than the Corvette (I wouldn't take that side of the argument though). Or it could just be that you're set on the Vette, in which case have at it!

2003??? Didn't they discontinue f-bodies in 2002?

No, I have one parked right next to my 1983 Corvette!
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 05, 2015, 04:00:15 PM
I'd avoid a C6 at that price, personally. Not an all encompassing statement, but the C5 will be nicer and depreciate less/appreciate more. I also suspect the C5's are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

May also want to investigate 2003 Camaro SS's and Firechickens if you're looking for the "throw you back in your seatness". Probably about half your budget, but I haven't shopped those in a long time so I could be way off. Also consider Mustangs, a LOT of car for the money--arguably a better bargain than the Corvette (I wouldn't take that side of the argument though). Or it could just be that you're set on the Vette, in which case have at it!

2003??? Didn't they discontinue f-bodies in 2002?

Yes.  I have an '01 SS.  If you have the extra $5k (rough difference i think between a C5 and F-body) I'd get the vette.  The f-body has the same go-go parts, but the better handling in the vette is worth the difference IMO. 

Also, the back seats in an F-body are good for cargo (fits a lot actually) or children only, so it may as well be a 2-seater.

My point in recommending he consider them was that it really doesn't sound like he cares much about the handling. All based on the "throw you back in your seat" comment he had. I tend to agree with you though.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Sid Hoffman on March 06, 2015, 10:17:44 AM
No, I have one parked right next to my 1983 Corvette!

Is this a dogpile now?  Can I get in with my 1998 MX-5 Miata?  :P
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Jack on March 06, 2015, 11:15:21 AM
No, I have one parked right next to my 1983 Corvette!

Is this a dogpile now?  Can I get in with my 1998 MX-5 Miata?  :P

I just bought a low-miles, excellent condition 1990 Miata for $3.5K.

It's costing me $10/month to insure (that's total, not net, by the way -- if it were replacing another car instead of being added on it might have made my net insurance costs go down!).

It uses regular gas, not premium, although it doesn't get quite as good highway fuel economy as a Corvette. (I don't entirely understand how a 1.6L engine in a 2000 lb car only gets 22 city/28 hwy according to the EPA...)

I'm sure a Corvette is probably more fun (at least in a straight line), but I don't think it'd be more than 400% as fun, so in "fun per dollar" I think I'm still coming out ahead.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: mtn on March 06, 2015, 11:45:47 AM
No, I have one parked right next to my 1983 Corvette!

Is this a dogpile now?  Can I get in with my 1998 MX-5 Miata?  :P

I just bought a low-miles, excellent condition 1990 Miata for $3.5K.

It's costing me $10/month to insure (that's total, not net, by the way -- if it were replacing another car instead of being added on it might have made my net insurance costs go down!).

It uses regular gas, not premium, although it doesn't get quite as good highway fuel economy as a Corvette. (I don't entirely understand how a 1.6L engine in a 2000 lb car only gets 22 city/28 hwy according to the EPA...)

I'm sure a Corvette is probably more fun (at least in a straight line), but I don't think it'd be more than 400% as fun, so in "fun per dollar" I think I'm still coming out ahead.

LOL, you missed the point. There was no 1998 Miata in the states.

As for the 22/28 mpg, it is the transmission. Part of what makes it so good is that you're always in the powerband, even if there isn't much powerband.

Also, having daily driven a 99 Miata for 4 years (still DDing it now), driven 2 different Z06's, and autocrossing both, I can assure you that the Corvette is not 400% more fun *for me*. But it is more fun in everything except the tightest of tight autocross courses, and I find those tedious in the Miata. But seeing as it would be a Daily Driver, it is, for me, better at that role--more cargo space, more comfortable, bigger interior, and I'd be able to tow more with it. And if it wasn't a daily driver, it would hold onto its value well enough that in the long run (ignoring opportunity cost and tires/brakes) it would probably not be 400% more expensive than the Miata.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Sid Hoffman on March 06, 2015, 12:09:54 PM
LOL, you missed the point. There was no 1998 Miata in the states.

Correct, there was no 2003 Camaro/Firebird, no 1983 Corvette, and no 1998 MX-5 Miata.  For the record, I owned an '03 MX-5 SE 6-speed.  I enjoyed it, paid about $11k OTD, sold for $9k in cash 2.5 years later.  Overall one of the best moves I've made from a financial standpoint as far as toys are concerned.  I've driven C4's and C5s, including autocrossing a C5 and they're certainly different cars.  I too am not sure the Corvette is 2-4x as much fun as the Miata, but good gravy it DOES have 2-4x as much low-end torque, which is kind of like a measurement of fun.
Title: Re: Help me understand purchasing a sports car
Post by: Jack on March 06, 2015, 02:37:20 PM
LOL, you missed the point. There was no 1998 Miata in the states.

Derp.

As for the 22/28 mpg, it is the transmission. Part of what makes it so good is that you're always in the powerband, even if there isn't much powerband.

Ah, that makes sense. I wish I could swap in a high-ratio (or low ratio? I always forget how that works) 5th gear, but I think it'd be technically illegal for autocross even though it wouldn't actually help performance.

And if it wasn't a daily driver, it would hold onto its value well enough that in the long run (ignoring opportunity cost and tires/brakes) it would probably not be 400% more expensive than the Miata.

I'm expecting my Miata to hold its value (not that it has all that much to begin with) even though it is a daily driver, just because I'm starting out with so many fewer miles than average. Plus, there's a limit to how cheap an old car (in good condition) will get before it starts turning into a "classic" and getting more expensive again.

I too am not sure the Corvette is 2-4x as much fun as the Miata, but good gravy it DOES have 2-4x as much low-end torque, which is kind of like a measurement of fun.

Low-end torque? My TDI's got that covered! :D

Although I suppose it could be nice to have the handling and torque in the same car, instead of two different ones...