Author Topic: Help me pick a career move!  (Read 752 times)

1gooddog

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Help me pick a career move!
« on: October 01, 2019, 06:35:19 PM »
Hello MMM Community

Would love the sage advice that maximizes my ability to retire early and have free time.
I know this is hard to help me without background information.. so here it goes.

CS: current situation

CJ: current job

Job 1

Job 2


CS:

36 yo married (1 income)
Retirement , pre tax contributed :  180,000 in 401k
(I just learned about backdoor last week!)
Cash savings: 1,100,000 in high interest accts
House: paid off, 250,000
Cars: late models, 2, combined value : 17,000, paid off; considering new car (cost 50,000 for "fun" would be ev to allow for green road trips, would pay cash, and also looking to buy next home also hopefully green so expect higher costs, when job decision is done)

CJ:

leadership position
Base Salary: 239,000
Bonuses and incentives for productivity/holiday/ not guaranteed: up to 70,000/year
(Salary for tax 2018: 324,000)
Retirement acct: Match 5% of base salary
Medical : Paid
Problems with current job: co workers, co workers, co workers, am middle management and am not given tools to do my job such as budget or time, often work after hours to make up for this but compensation is not time based but on results. Did I say co workers? Managing whiners and pushed between the top and bottom. I am always putting out fires and behind so I spend some weekends taking calls and coaching people.

Job 1:

No titles, just plug play and leave at end of day. Effectively can  turn phone off when I walk out.
Base Salary: 239,000 (can try to negotiate but does not sound like it can be)
Bonuses and incentives for productivity/holiday: none, it is better staffed so there is no scheme to reach these
Retirement acct: Match 12%
Medical: I pay 200$ per month
Cons: Clear across US from extended family, different coast but they agreed to pay moving expenses to overcome that "issue"; state tax would be about 15-17,000$ for me

Job 2:

Same town
Same title.. or so they say but maybe not as I know things change when you start a job.
Base Salary: 275,000
Bonuses and incentives for productivity/holiday: none, also not needed as they are well staffed
Retirement acct: Match 5%
Medical: Not sure, I think full paid by them
Cons: None (except I interviewed for the 12% match job "JOB 1" and said WOW.. and now I am enlightened by MMM! But I need to confirm this and do not know how without looking sly )



Thank you for your sage advice and tips. I am especially puzzled about since I am high income over years (5 -10 years) to ER time which path has best yeild... High match, lower post tax pay but state income tax Vs. Higher upfront pay?

FWIW goal is to retire in 10 years. Kid is a maybe yes maybe no, would be 1.

Thank you again!!


 






« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 06:37:06 PM by 1gooddog »

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Help me pick a career move!
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2019, 07:43:01 PM »
You can get plenty more money, but not more time with family when you live so far away (beyond a point).  Personally, I would stay planted given that the differences are so minimal (larger match but offset by higher taxes).  Especially if you want to retire to the place you now live, rather than the one you'd move to.  You'd also have things like large transaction costs on your house and other resettling costs/hassles. 

In short, I see nothing but upside here: you have great options and one of them is even where you live. 

chemistk

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Re: Help me pick a career move!
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2019, 05:24:44 AM »
First off, even with your desire to purchase a new house and car, you're already on the cusp of being able to FIRE based on your numbers alone. It really depends on your current annual living expenses.

Setting that aside for a second, your asset allocation is....bad. Maybe you're aware already since you're here but even if you were to redistribute your cash assets in the most basic MMM fashion, the potential for passive growth is astronomical.

Third, Job 2 is such a no-brainer. Higher salary, stay local, better company culture than current, etc. Given your income level, 401(k) match difference and even healthcare cost difference are trivial at best.

Kris

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Re: Help me pick a career move!
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2019, 06:06:16 AM »
First off, even with your desire to purchase a new house and car, you're already on the cusp of being able to FIRE based on your numbers alone. It really depends on your current annual living expenses.

Setting that aside for a second, your asset allocation is....bad. Maybe you're aware already since you're here but even if you were to redistribute your cash assets in the most basic MMM fashion, the potential for passive growth is astronomical.

Third, Job 2 is such a no-brainer. Higher salary, stay local, better company culture than current, etc. Given your income level, 401(k) match difference and even healthcare cost difference are trivial at best.


+1 to all this.

1gooddog

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Re: Help me pick a career move!
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2019, 06:06:39 AM »
You can get plenty more money, but not more time with family when you live so far away (beyond a point).  Personally, I would stay planted given that the differences are so minimal (larger match but offset by higher taxes).  Especially if you want to retire to the place you now live, rather than the one you'd move to.  You'd also have things like large transaction costs on your house and other resettling costs/hassles. 

In short, I see nothing but upside here: you have great options and one of them is even where you live.

I did not think of the retire where part.

Really good point - moving back would be a PITA, the only + is without admin supervisor role every night , holiday, and weekend would be free = more time at the away job.
Right now I am "on" even when away if any staffing issues, work meltdowns, etc.

1gooddog

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Re: Help me pick a career move!
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2019, 06:14:33 AM »
First off, even with your desire to purchase a new house and car, you're already on the cusp of being able to FIRE based on your numbers alone. It really depends on your current annual living expenses.

Setting that aside for a second, your asset allocation is....bad. Maybe you're aware already since you're here but even if you were to redistribute your cash assets in the most basic MMM fashion, the potential for passive growth is astronomical.

Third, Job 2 is such a no-brainer. Higher salary, stay local, better company culture than current, etc. Given your income level, 401(k) match difference and even healthcare cost difference are trivial at best.

I did not know it was bad allocation till a few months ago so trying to be open minded about that.
Learning about backdoor Roth and trying to see where else post tax money can go. I know retirement accounts but they seem frightening so I am battling that by learning more about post tax investment accounts.
Also moved from traditional bank to Ally ++ maybe I should look into MM accts.

1gooddog

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Re: Help me pick a career move!
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2019, 06:19:33 AM »
Some more personal details:

Spending / annual expenses: 46,000


Job 1: not supervisor
can have all holidays and nights and weekends off.
I sometimes think how nice that must be to be "unbothered" and be able to turn phone off on vacation.

Job 2: supervisor
Thinking more about being "far away", makes me have mixed feelings of being excited to see a new part of the country but sad to be "far" and need 6 hr of air travel to come back.


I think I am asking everyone to help me sort out the emotional side of work which is harder than the financial side.

chemistk

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Re: Help me pick a career move!
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2019, 08:11:44 AM »
I think I am asking everyone to help me sort out the emotional side of work which is harder than the financial side.

For many (if not most) people here, the emotional and financial are intrinsically connected.

Some people here see working at a job they don't particularly enjoy as a means to an end. Often they have a FIRE date in the near future and are willing to work past the problems at work. These people tend to emphasize the RE part of FIRE.

Others are much more interested in the FI part of FIRE and would rather accumulate enough resources to have the freedom to choose how they make an income. These folks usually are gladly willing to give up a higher income in order to work somewhere that they find fulfilling.

Of course, these forums are a diverse population and so not everyone will fall exactly into each of these categories.

Given your current spending level, you already have about 10x annual expenses saved and ready to go. Some mindful frugal adjustments could easily bring that closer to 20x. You could, right now, take a job that's 1/4 your current income and coast to FIRE without making a single lifestyle change. Essentially, you are FI.   

So the question YOU must ask YOURSELF is "what do I value?"

Meaning, what is it that YOU want to do? Is early retirement 'it' (and if so, do you have a vision for your life post-work after your decade is up)? Do you enjoy work enough to continue on past the next decade if you decide in 10 years you're not ready?. If yes, do you enjoy your current field or does something else interest you?

You say that you want to retire in 10 years, so even if you socked all your cash after expenses in a hole in the ground you'd nearly have an additional $2m. Pardon my French, but what the fuck are you going to do with all that money? If you have a kid, not even 10% of that will be needed to actually raise it - including private school and funding college.

So really, I think the first thing to do is to discard the notion that you only have two options here. On paper, you can choose between Job 1 and Job 2 but before you make that choice, ask yourself if you would rather be doing something entirely different. If you even think you would, there's no better time than right now to figure out how to make that happen.

But if you're stuck, I'd still choose Job 2. It sounds like you're close with your family, if you have a kid soon it's nice to have them close by to visit and help. Traveling is always possible.

1gooddog

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Re: Help me pick a career move!
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2019, 10:24:07 AM »
I think I am asking everyone to help me sort out the emotional side of work which is harder than the financial side.

For many (if not most) people here, the emotional and financial are intrinsically connected.

Some people here see working at a job they don't particularly enjoy as a means to an end. Often they have a FIRE date in the near future and are willing to work past the problems at work. These people tend to emphasize the RE part of FIRE.

Others are much more interested in the FI part of FIRE and would rather accumulate enough resources to have the freedom to choose how they make an income. These folks usually are gladly willing to give up a higher income in order to work somewhere that they find fulfilling.

Of course, these forums are a diverse population and so not everyone will fall exactly into each of these categories.

Given your current spending level, you already have about 10x annual expenses saved and ready to go. Some mindful frugal adjustments could easily bring that closer to 20x. You could, right now, take a job that's 1/4 your current income and coast to FIRE without making a single lifestyle change. Essentially, you are FI.   

So the question YOU must ask YOURSELF is "what do I value?"

Meaning, what is it that YOU want to do? Is early retirement 'it' (and if so, do you have a vision for your life post-work after your decade is up)? Do you enjoy work enough to continue on past the next decade if you decide in 10 years you're not ready?. If yes, do you enjoy your current field or does something else interest you?

You say that you want to retire in 10 years, so even if you socked all your cash after expenses in a hole in the ground you'd nearly have an additional $2m. Pardon my French, but what the fuck are you going to do with all that money? If you have a kid, not even 10% of that will be needed to actually raise it - including private school and funding college.

So really, I think the first thing to do is to discard the notion that you only have two options here. On paper, you can choose between Job 1 and Job 2 but before you make that choice, ask yourself if you would rather be doing something entirely different. If you even think you would, there's no better time than right now to figure out how to make that happen.

But if you're stuck, I'd still choose Job 2. It sounds like you're close with your family, if you have a kid soon it's nice to have them close by to visit and help. Traveling is always possible.

Wow!
You really hit the nail on the head at decoding my feelings on this and helping me figure out why I am flip flopping psychologically.

I would say I am more into the FI part than the RE part, which I think you are right we are there or dang close.
I love my work at the granular level and see myself working longer part time or on volunteer basis for fun, within my limits = when I want to (like maybe 2 weeks a month). So early retirement  (RE) is not "it", glad you made me see it that way. I would have no problem doing that till the end of my time because the work is easy to me and I am able to see value to society in it.

After reading your post I found the true core of my decreased happiness at current job is that I do not like having my personal time encroached on and that is what the buzz kill is for me. I want to be able to put my phone down at 5 pm and live MY life. I hate getting calls on "vacation". I am saying vacation in quotes because usually I get 24-48 hours before the texts and calls start with varying severity and from different levels above me. By my position I am forced to be leashed electronically so that they have access to me. My spouse sees this and it does not bother them much but I feel sad that I am sitting in a beautiful location (I will likely never be to again!!) taking 45 mins call on stuff that will not matter in 5 months let alone 5 years.
I think I want to give two of us permission to work less and detach to enjoy what we like to do, travel and be together.

A little story background.. We wiped out debt in 2016; personal student loan and car and were able to sell off two properties (each had one, condo and a house) and settle in together, previously made more but debt and poor health choices. We live in a moderate cost of living area and instantly had a bit of equity when we got settled into our current house (2->1). We thought it would be a 2 year deal because we said we would get a dream home once debts cleared and we have saved up and explored the world a bit. We lazy looked for a bit but did not find a good fit last year. Then this year all the work emotions made us take a break to reconsider work and job hunt for me.
 
I am going to show my spouse your wise reply and we will talk it over dinner tonight. You posed a lot of good questions to help us walk down a path. I am looking forward to the talk.. the questions will help us frame our value system and make a decision. It will also help us learn more about each other!