Help me negotiate please

[J.P. MoreGains]

For anyone who has time… Here is an in depth summary of my situation to try to get some feedback and advice from you all about how to negotiate for more money in my current job.

I’ve actually never negotiated for more money so this is new to me. I will give some background and then a tentative strategy.

Main Questions
How do I ask for a raise and how do I frame the conversation and questions?

Thoughts on taking a job for less money to get remote work?

Background

Compensation

I am a Junior Software Developer for a large local government entity. Soon it will be 2 years working here. My current salary is $78,796.44 per year with an annual cost of living adjustment of around 3%. The salary is on the very low end in software but for me it is still more money than I’ve made before and I can save a lot of it.

I have access to a 401k, 457b and HSA all of which I max out. These are great tax benefits that can accelerate my investments. I also am in the state pension which I will be vested in at 5 years of service. From a previous job I have the opportunity to buy credit to get to 5 years this August if I would like to.

There are other great things about my job. My healthcare plan this year will cost around $30 a month. My supervisor is amazing. I love working for her. The work itself is mostly satisfying and engaging. I’m never under any real stress and I feel overall pretty satisfied.

I have worked part time jobs on top of this for over a year to be able to save even more. This is to make up for the “low” salary. I see how much an extra 2k a month makes.

The point is that if I could make the move up to a mid level developer and get a salary at 100k or a bit higher I think I would be even more satisfied and wouldn’t have to work part time jobs.

So I would like to negotiate for a raise.

My Strategy (For Now)

I think my strategy for now is to:
- Have a first conversation during my yearly review in 2 weeks
- Discuss my performance metrics
- Discuss my overall contributions
- Ask what would it take for me to get to the next level
- Approach this again in September/October when I will likely have another option

I’ll hit on each of these points to try to get some feedback about my strategy.

1. First conversation
I want to bring up the topic in a general sense. I want to ask general questions like
“what does the future look like for me here?”
“I’m really happy here and with our team, what would it take for me to get to the next level”
Any other points people recommend that sound good

2. Performance metrics
This is one of my strong points. I want to emphasize these to show that I’m a top contributor without making others look bad.

Code Contributions:
Our senior dev has 59.8%, I have 29.8%. The remaining 4 developers all with more experience than me combine for around 10%. So I am an important contributor.

Tickets
Our senior dev does 55.9%, I have 13.8% of tickets. I am in third place here nearly tied for second place. 3 other devs are in the single digits.

Tasks
Our senior dev does 40%. I’ve done 34.1%. Everyone else on the team is in the single digits.

Overall - our team is very very dependent on our senior dev. This is a pain point in our department and recognized by the higher ups. They are looking for someone to fill the gap and step up. I can demonstrate that I am already doing this and on a trajectory to do more and take more responsibility. So I have the potential to really be the next big contributor for our department.

3 - Overall Contributions
I have significant contributions when seen at the macro level. My supervisor has said that I “bring projects to completion” and she thanks me for that because I take responsibility for things and try to get things done. I work with urgency - this has been noticed. I’ve finished projects early which one of our top managers has said never happens.

I have been asked to step in and rescue stalled projects from team members with more experience than me. I’ve been asked to do some things that other team members were just letting sit around. The point is that I’m recognized as someone who takes responsibility and works with urgency.

I can say that we have team members with low productivity who don’t really want to take things on and who don’t work with urgency. They don’t volunteer for things, I also see that they don’t work many hours at all and prioritize “balance”. They are work from home and are kind of invisible… I know this is a pain point as well for the higher ups. I feel like I have a great advantage by going into the office everyday, working during the day, not taking sick days, etc. Over a year all of this adds up to a lot more productivity.

I think this does get noticed. So I think I have a big advantage here in terms of these characteristics of taking responsibility, working with urgency, bringing projects to completion.

4 - Ask what it will take for me to get to the next level
This will be the part of the conversation where I want to find out when I can get a raise and get to the next level. Maybe I should just go ahead and ask now but I feel like I don’t really have the leverage now. I think the job market is still really tough and I’m still fairly new with 2 years. So I don’t really have any other options right now to go to. So I think my plan is more of a discovery process where I find out where I stand and what path other developers have taken in the past.

What kind of questions should I ask? How should I frame the conversation? I really want to get an answer to “when?” and “what else do I need to do to get the raise/promotion?”

5 - September/October
This September/October I will likely have another work option at a university I worked for previously. I was rehired last year to train a new hire in the position I previously held. She has told me she plans on leaving in September or October but hasn’t informed anyone about this.

This has me excited because at this time I may have another option. On one hand I could go back part time and work two jobs and train a new hire they had. Last time this lasted 9 months. So that would be 9 months of some extra money for a job I already know how to do. I could make great progress toward FI over this time.

The other option is to consider returning full time to this job at the college and either doing it, or using it as leverage to get more money at my main job (and then still doubling up part time at the college).

Job at the college - notes
Only 65k per year. I’m making almost 80k now and feel like I’m close to this promotion to get to 100k.
I would negotiate for fully remote no limitations. I think I have a good chance of getting this because since I left they have had so many problems filling this technical position that is not easy to learn.
This would be “huge” compensation - I could visit my parents for months at a time. I could live in an affordable country like I have in the past, I could live in Europe where I’ll have citizenship shortly. This is so VALUABLE. I could get a great lifestyle now instead of waiting until I hit FI.
I would still be in the pension system but would be contributing less so my benefit wouldn’t be as high.
Not as good working conditions - more drama, more manufactured stress. All still tolerable though and overall not that bad. But my current job is definitely better and also more technical and interesting.

Thoughts on this

The whole reason I got into computers was to be able to work remote and live where I want. There is a decent chance I could get this set up as early as say October. The big question is if I’m willing to earn less money and slow my progress toward FI to get a lifestyle I want now.

This is a tough question since I’m making such great progress. I’m on track to be up 200k over the past 22 months. I just passed 300k. At the rate I’m going 500k is not that far away. I’m really motivated to keep making progress toward FIRE so I think that if I were to make slower progress I may be bummed out about that.

So it’s really a question of what is most important to me? Can I delay gratification for a couple more years to get closer to FIRE or do I start to not prioritize money as much and start to coast more? I’m 45 so these are really critical questions.

I kind of think the smart play is to ask when I can get a promotion and get more money so I get an idea. Come September/October I could always try to use the second job as leverage to ask for the raise and if they don’t I could leave.

My gut instinct

I kind of feel like the most responsible thing to do is to stay the course at my main job. Keep making more money, work the college job as a second job, and keep on trucking to FI.

I think being 45 years old makes me have to be more responsible. 300k is still pretty early on. If I were already at 500k then I would be much more likely to Coast. The point is I’ve only been working toward FIRE like this for 2 years and I think it would be a bad idea to take my foot off the gas.

I could keep on going and hope whoever they hire leaves in a couple years when I’m at 500k.

Thoughts?

[McStache]

It strikes me that there are a lot more than these two options on the table. What about looking for a remote software dev job? Now that you're not entry level, the job market becomes a bit easier

Are there set policies/procedures around promotions at your current job? Some organizations are very ad-hoc with these things and others are much more structured. If it's a structured one, the timeline/windows should be clearly laid out and available knowledge. It sounds like you ought to be eligible for that bump to the next level and that your employer should want to do what it can to retain you. I'd start this conversation sooner rather than later - it doesn't need to be a demand, but, as you've been framing it, a conversation about your growth and getting to the next level

[J.P. MoreGains]

Yes, I think the place I'm at there is a more structured approach. Since it's local government they also don't have an unlimited budget so there isn't a lot of effort to help people grow quickly to get to a higher paying level. I definitely don't want to make a demand but after two years I also think it's the time to start this conversation.

Definitely the chance for me to keep looking elsewhere... although I'm really happy here. So I would prefer to earn a bit more money here than to make more money somewhere else. I guess that's why I want to have the conversation so I can see what is in front of me.

[Purple_Crayon]

I would look at the BLS to see what similar folks are making for similar responsibilities in your area (or remote). That way you can show that you are underpaid as per the market, as opposed to just asking for more money without knowing what your co-workers make (unless you do -- if it's a government job, those numbers are sometimes available).

I work in software as well. I've always found the easiest way to get raises is to get more offers. Nothing seems to make a salary go up faster than getting an offer doing the same thing somewhere else. I was making $64k in 2017 doing work I otherwise enjoyed, and I knew I was getting taken advantage of. But no matter how many conversations I had, nothing happened. Finally, I got an offer for another department in the company for $85k, and suddenly I got bumped to $87k overnight in my current role. This same thing has happened several times since.

[reeshau]

I think the biggest mistake people make when thinking about the next step is to want it IMMEDIATELY.  "Hey, I woke up today, and want more money.  Where is it?"

This also is a reason that the fastest way to make more money is to switch jobs: the other place has the immediate need, and resources.

The down side of that is that you take a risk on the new organization's culture, and have to start building your network from scratch.

If you like the place you are, start the conversation now, but think in your mind about action next year.  Why?  Because budgets are already set.  Your timeliness is a good one, to prepare for next year's budget.  If you force the issue this year, you are making the choice twice as hard on your boss now: they have to take the money away from something else, in order to keep you.  As good as you are, that's no favor.

If you communicate your expectations and give them the evidence, they can go to bat for you during the budgeting and HR planning cycle.  If they don't go to bat for you, well, that speaks louder than any happy talk.

If this pace is too slow for you, then don't join a big org.  And certainly, don't be in government.  (Or a university!)

It does seem like you aren't stretching very far to explore your possibilities.  These two are just the ones that have fallen in your lap.  And far from ideal.  What positions are open now, foe the money you want?  Would you take them?  That's worth putting in some time to research.

And, by the way: what is your next step after this one?  It's not to early to aim towards that, if you have something clearly in mind.

[J.P. MoreGains]

@Purple_Crayon Yes switching seems to be the best strategy to try to get more compensation is in a new role whether that be in the same company or a different one. I have a decent idea of pay in our department since it's on a scale that is posted publicly. I don't know exactly but close enough in a range.

@reeshau Good news is I'm not in a hurry so I don't have an immediate demand. It's more like it's on my mind. I'm already on a great path so there isn't a big hurry. Another reason why I'm not in a hurry is like you said the risk of not making the switch. I love working for our manager and our senior dev is great. There are so many great things that I'm not in a hurry to switch or anything.

I never thought about budgets being set for the current year - that's a good point. And after the conversation I'll have an idea what to expect and see how much people will go to bat for me like you said.

You are also right... I'm not stretching to find other main opportunities. Instead I'm working 2 other low pay part time jobs nights and weekends to get my pay up some to save more. Sooner or later I'll get tired of this and can start exploring what's out there.

My next move might just be FI or a sabbatical. I feel like in like 3 years I'll be in a good place. At that point I will probably still want to work but i'll also want a lot of freedom like remote work. I'm not too far away from the money not being all that big of a priority.

But... while I'm motivated and working hard I figure I should at least figure out how to make more to expedite my FI arrival even sooner.

Other thoughts

My life is pretty great. In 3 more years I'll be vested in the pension - another form of diversification. In 3 years I should be over 600k in investments. Even faster if I get a raise or there are really strong markets.

So my big thing is just opening the conversation to see so I can set my expectations. Even if nothing were to change I would have a great 3 years and likely be really close to FI if not hit it.

[roomtempmayo]

“I’m really happy here and with our team, what would it take for me to get to the next level”

I think you're generally on the right track.

I'd go easy on trying to leverage what you've already done to get a raise now (seconding what @reeshau said), and focus on what more you can do to get the next promotion.

The good news is that in government there should be clear-ish metrics for evaluation and promotion.

The bad news, especially in small offices, is that sometimes promotions are totally contingent on budget and openings due to retirements/departures.

If your supervisor tells you you're basically doing everything necessary for promotion but you just need to wait for an opening or budget increase, then you're probably better off looking for a new job.

[mistymoney]

check out askamanger.org and search for asking for a raise.

[La Colibri]

“I’m really happy here and with our team, what would it take for me to get to the next level”

I think you're generally on the right track.

I'd go easy on trying to leverage what you've already done to get a raise now (seconding what @reeshau said), and focus on what more you can do to get the next promotion.

The good news is that in government there should be clear-ish metrics for evaluation and promotion.

The bad news, especially in small offices, is that sometimes promotions are totally contingent on budget and openings due to retirements/departures.

If your supervisor tells you you're basically doing everything necessary for promotion but you just need to wait for an opening or budget increase, then you're probably better off looking for a new job.

I agree everyone said you are on the right track and their advice. 
My 2 cents :
Observe how people get promoted and find several 'mentors' in your org and/or neighbor orgs +1,+2,+3 level for a coffee chat.  Trust but verify their information on levels.fyi or other sites :)