I had a conversation with my boss about it and basically explained how I appreciate the opportunity and would like to discuss how this new role is beyond my current position. He got evasive at this point and explained how we aren’t in the right part of the cycle to discuss promotions. He did say that he had put my name in for one this last time around.
To me having a formal secondment is the perfect time to discuss this. It’s like a totally new job so in my mind it’s acceptable to negotiate a bit here. My concern is that if I don’t get promoted now I certainly won’t get promoted while on secondment because the other company has no incentive to do so.
How should I phrase my next discussion with my boss when he hands me secondment forms to sign?
To answer your actual question because I kinda ignored it in my previous post:
I would set up a separate meeting ahead of this secondment forms signing specifically to discuss your current level. It makes it easier for everyone involved if he gets a few weeks of runway to get through any red tape ahead of when any forms need to be signed. Your boss will appreciate you not making his life more stressful by waiting until he needs to button up the secondment stuff to hit him with demands.
Set up that separate meeting, and come prepared with documents showcasing that you are already performing at the level you are targeting and lay out with concrete numbers what value you bring to the company and his team. Revenue/$ saved, etc is always great, but other metrics are also important, research and find those and put them in your document. You should also learn more about the promotion system at your company, and if you are ok with waiting until then. If you are not, you need to lead him towards that after a bit of leading... You need to find out who is responsible for signing off on promotions and coming up with a game plan with your manager to get them willing to do this within the timeframe you need.
Also consider if you willing to leave your position over this? What salary/title is acceptable to you?
"Boss, I would like to discuss my level here at Company. As you know, I am currently at X level, but I believe I am performing at Y level. My past few annual reviews have been excellent, I am leading this big project, and I bring $ABC value to this company. According to Z document that sets out expectations for the levels, I am performing at Y level. *Go through specific, concrete examples, with numbers/metrics are even more persuasive*
Would you agree that I am performing at Y level?"
Here, he will either agree and you can move onto the next step, or he will be evasive or tell you he can't promote you. However, that isn't the question you asked--you asked if he agreed you were performing at the level. Keep bringing him back to that question until he either agrees or disagrees. Then you have concrete next steps.
If he disagrees, you need to find out what you need to be doing in order to be seriously considered to be performing at level Y.
If he agrees, you have caught him, and now you can start leading him towards making concrete steps to make it happen on your accelerated timeline. After all, if you are already performing at that level, and both you and he know it, then the company doesn't really have much of an excuse beyond laziness to not promote you.
Ok, so let's assume he agrees. He has taken the bait, and now you can spring the trap.
"Excellent, thank you. Being at my current level is not working for me. What needs to happen in order to get this through?"
This is where he will likely get evasive (we aren’t in the right part of the cycle to discuss promotions, its out of his hands, etc). Be firm. Keep repeating yourself -- "My current level is not working for me. I am performing at Y level. What needs to happen to make that a reality?" *stare, power move* Put him on the defense, make him give you excuses for why this can't happen. Then you will have more information to make a plan to take down each of those barriers.
Do not let him dismiss you. Promotions can absolutely happen outside the normal cycle. They are more difficult, yes, but they absolutely happen (but usually only for good reason, such as retaining good personnel). Your boss may even unintentionally give you a kernel of information like mine did: "Leaders will only consider promotions outside the normal cycle for flight risks." Boom, there it was... I just needed to be a credible flight risk and then I get what I want.
I don't really recommend this, as it can make you look petty if your company culture isn't right, but if he is refusing to budge and just throwing up excuses to not go after this on a timeframe that is acceptable to you, you could also consider signaling that you are unwilling to take on responsibilities beyond what is in your existing job title. I did actually do this, because my current level was supposed to support only 1 team, but I was being asked to take on my 4th team. I signaled that I would not take on those additional responsibilities until my title matched my day-to-day work, and it hasn't backfired on me (in fact, I'm now leading 5 teams, 6 months after promotion). You want to be careful not to cast yourself in a light that indicates you aren't a team player or willing to take on responsibilities when needed, but you are well within your rights to ask for fair compensation for the work you do and the value you bring. But I would say this technique only works if you are refusing responsibilities that are beyond the level you are shooting for. You want to stay within working at the level you are shooting for even if you don't take on additional responsibilities. For example, if I refused to take on a 2nd team until I was promoted, that 2nd team was the bare minimum for the level I was targeting, so I would have been shooting myself in the foot. But refusing to take on team #3 or #4, that is beyond the minimum required for the higher title and if I didn't take them on, I was still within that title's scope of responsibilities, so it doesn't reflect quite as "pettily" on me. Hope that makes sense.
edit: maybe a good way to phrase this is "I will be willing to sign the secondment documents once my title matches those responsibilities you are asking me to take on." This indicates you are willing to do it and *will* once certain circumstances are met.
Hopefully, you get him around to actually talking about the promotion process and who he needs to talk to/forms he needs to submit, whatever. From there, you pivot to getting him on the path of actively pursuing those next steps. My manager got on a roll and convinced himself to start the process, and asked me to send him my "promotion argument document" so he could put some of my evidence in his proposal. Then you just need to check in on his progress when you bump into him in the hall, set up a recurring meeting to check in, etc. Keep it front of mind for him to solve this problem by bringing it up often.
Phrases like "Ok. what will you do first?" "When will you do it?" "Do you need anything from me before you get started?" "How soon do you think [step] can happen?" Are all excellent for leading people to make specific, near-term plans of action. Then write those steps and agreements on execution down, and then tell him "ok. I'll check in on Friday/whenever to see if you need anything for [next step]." That will give him some warning that he needs to get step 1 done before Friday, and then its onto step 2.
If you hit a hard wall or snag or lack of urgency after all that, you need to dig/probe your manager as to why this stalled. Is it because they only consider promotions for flight risks? Is it because your manager isn't very persuasive? A missing document? At each step you need to investigate why it isn't moving, and then fix the problem. For example, if the higher ups just wont consider promotions now, what can you do to make your case a priority? Be a flight risk? Then I would suggest before the secondment signing, that you signal your willingness to leave if this problem isn't resolved in the near future. If you want to ultimately stay at the company, this can be risky, but if you signal just your willingness to simply look at options, not go all the way to actually threatening to leave, that could do the trick without much hassle.
For this first meeting, you need to be clear about what you want to get out of it, and you need a CLEAR ASK of your manager. Whether you want a pay increase or the actual title, and when it is acceptable to you to receive it. And during this meeting, you need to gather information and come out of it with clear actionable next steps that your manager will be taking to meet your needs. Then do a few check ins between now and the secondment document signing.
Good luck!