Author Topic: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!  (Read 5838 times)

mustachedad

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Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« on: August 06, 2017, 11:50:27 AM »
So I've been loving these forums for a few years... They've helped me lose 15 lbs, get out from under my $400/month truck payment (Thank you SOOOO much!) and have really inspired me to start taking on free/moneymaking hobbies while getting rid of ridiculous expenses... looking at you cable television! But today, I need some advice because I'm trying to help a loved one conquer the evil bastard that is credit card debt. I don't want to lead her down a wrong path and make matters worse, so I turn to you.

I'm sorry I'm going to have to give you incomplete information, I've asked her to bring me her CC statements so I have a more clear understanding of what we are trying to kill... but here is what I know.

1. She has about $20,000 (US) spread across about 10 credit cards... $5k here, $2k there is what she said. I know the interest rates on these are brutal, she mentioned one having something like 26% (I nearly fainted)
2. She makes around $30,000/year, has a leased car and a mortgage (these are the big expenses that I'm sure of)

I know that isn't a lot to go on, but she is hurting with this debt and if we don't help her I think she will be under it forever. I'm going to work on her spendy habits of going overboard on birthdays/christmas and to stop buying consumer junk online... I'm not sure if she is willing to change her life, but she already cut cable so I feel like that could be a first step!

I'd like to know if anyone has had experience with consolidating debt, if that is a good idea? Basically any way to lower her interest rate so she can cut into the principle of this a little faster.

Again, sorry for the extreme lack of information... I just found out about this today and it made me register for the site because I know there are amazing people here to love to help. Thanks for reading my plea, I'll update this post with every step or as I gain information incase anyone would like to follow her (hopeful) progress.

-Joe

larmando

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2017, 12:01:26 PM »
Consolidating debt is one of those things that work if one would have succeeded anyway, because they realize they've been doing it wrong: then it shortens recovery time. If instead one reaches a debt "pain point", which is where payments eat so much that they can't have the lifestyle they want/expect/"deserve", managing to consolidate might make the pain go away, and free up more space for spending, ending up with more debt up to the same payment pain point. So it depends on willpower and real commitment for success.

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Miss Piggy

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 12:09:49 PM »
This may not be of much help, but honestly, with her current salary, it sounds to me like she needs to get a higher-paying job and/or a second job. It also sounds like she's the perfect candidate for the Dave Ramsey debt snowball approach...pay off the lowest balance first, then the next lowest balance, and so on, without much regard to interest rates. (People here would look at interest rates first, which is the right thing to do, but for some, those small wins in the snowball approach really make a huge difference.)

Frankies Girl

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2017, 12:33:28 PM »
Not even getting into the debt consolidation (as I know nothing about it).

What I'd likely try:

1. No more applying for more cards (freeze all credit). All the credit cards go into a drawer. Can figure out a couple to keep "active" once debts are gone, but more than a few cards is overkill. Designate one (hopefully nice rewards) card to be used for day to day spending like groceries or gas, but that is tracked and paid off in full each month. (do not close or cancel accounts at this point as her credit utilization may take a hard hit - but she can stop using them all until she's dug her way out of all of the debt)

2. Hard look over all expenses and income and cut to the bone anything that isn't absolutely vital to life. So if possible to get out of car lease and get an older but still reliable car (which also means she can go with liability only insurance as well), no more eating out or gifts, clothing, cook whole food and cut out the prepared/packaged junk... basically every bit she can cut will be $ that can reduce the giant wave of debt. And gently somehow explaining that on her salary, she doesn't have the money to be buying gifts and crap for others. She's making money now that has already been spent - that is what all that debt is - and any additional spending is just digging her deeper into that hole and making sure she'll never be free.

And should establish an emergency fund at this time - shoot for $1,000 in a saving account. Do not touch unless it's a true emergency. The A/C breaks, the car needs a new tire... great, you have the money right there. It may take her a few months to build this, but it's vital to get an EF in place to prevent the credit cards being used as an emergency and piling more debt onto them.

3. Make a list of debts in order of INTEREST RATE charged - highest to lowest.

So like if she's got 5 cards, an example would be:

Card 1: $1,200 at 26%
Card 2: $10,000 at 22%
Card 3: $900 at 17%
Card 4: $3,400 at 12%
Card 5: $5,700 at 11%

4. Once debts have been identified and spending has been cut back enough to find extra $ to throw at the debt, she should start hitting the highest interest rate card with all of the extra $, while maintaining minimum payments on the others. Once the first card is gone, move to the next highest interest rate with the extra $. Repeat until debt is gone.




The Dave Ramsey approach is called a debt snowball, but it differs slightly. The above list going by interest rate is the most logical and means they pay less out over time because the high interest rates are the killers usually. But the snowball wants the list to be in order of amounts owed, smallest to largest, so you pay the small off first you get a psychological effect of an early "win."

She likely has some fat to cut somewhere - if she can get out of that car lease and get a cheap beater car to get to work and back, she'd likely save a bundle. If she has no emergency fund as well (?), with her owning a house instead of renting, I'd imagine she is one HVAC breakdown or roof away from bankruptcy. She may want to consider selling and finding a small apartment so she doesn't have to have the maintenance and upkeep and possible high insurance and property taxes? Likely would save money as well. Could also consider taking in a roommate, or getting a second job to help out. But the thing to really get across to her is that she is spending like she has a job that pays her twice as good as it does.

Until she cracks down on that disconnect and starts cutting waaaay back on expenses or ups her income, her spending is not sustainable and the debt ball will continue to grow and she will working to the day she dies, and have that horrible debt always growing and looming over her for the rest of her life. What if she gets sick or unable to work? She'll lose everything.

The big thing to fit in there somewhere is for her to have an emergency fund set up so she doesn't go back and charge stuff on a card. After identifying where she can save/cut in her spending, she should technically save up a minimum of $1K if she hasn't already (emergency funds should be roughly 3 months expenses if not 6 eventually). No idea if you're willing to help her out with a loan or gift to get her started, but in my case, if I really was worried and she really seemed sincere and trustworthy, I'd probably offer to gift a few thousand in good faith as an emergency fund for her (you could just tell her that if something unexpected happens, you can help pay for it so she can funnel as much of her money at her debts as possible and luck out if nothing does come up). But do not make this offer if you are uncomfortable with the idea or have an otherwise complicated relationship. Money definitely can be a mess when you get involved with family members and debt.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 02:30:34 PM by Frankies Girl »

GizmoTX

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2017, 01:03:22 PM »
Consolidation only makes sense if the interest rate is dramatically reduced.

My mother moved near me from out of state & then asked for help managing her CC debt, about $10K back in 1991. Since she still had a good credit score, balance transfers to a lower or zero interest rate is what I did to dramatically lower the interest fees. She was then able to significantly reduce the debt. She stopped using all but 1 cash back card. Now there's a charge for balance transfers, so you'd have to do the math to see where/if it would help.

mustachedad

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2017, 01:14:02 PM »
and free up more space for spending, ending up with more debt up to the same payment pain point.

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This is scary and exactly the opposite of what I want to accomplish lol...

Thank you to everyone that replied. I think I'll approach her with the debt stacking/snowball approach and see what she thinks... I feel like after seeing her statements I'll be able to formulate a better attack plan using the advice you guys are giving me. Man, do I love having awkward, difficult conversations with family/in-laws... but we have to help. Thanks again everybody, sincerely.

-Joe

Sibley

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2017, 01:49:34 PM »
Can't add to the snowball stuff above, but be prepared that she isn't willing to make the changes. She will likely need to make some significant (to her) changes, and then all the logic goes out the window and you're left with pure emotion. If she's going crazy buying presents for everyone on holidays, that isn't logical, it's emotional. Emotions are WAY harder to change.

frugaldrummer

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 01:04:16 AM »
Debt snowball method will probably work best for her. The psychological reward of paying off a card is motivating, so the psychological effect keeps her motivated. Paying highest interest to lowest is a bit more efficient but not as motivating.

If she owns her home, can she take in a room mate? I'm always surprised at how resistant people are to this easy way to increase income. A room mate at $500 a month could pay off most of her debt in three years.

She does have a debt to income problem, so finding ways to make extra money are really important. If getting a raise or a better paying job is not an option, then a side gig can help. Could she do babysitting in the evenings? Does she have any skills for crafts that could be sold?

Btw, I don't think you mentioned her age?

mustachedad

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 12:38:39 PM »
Debt snowball method will probably work best for her. The psychological reward of paying off a card is motivating, so the psychological effect keeps her motivated. Paying highest interest to lowest is a bit more efficient but not as motivating.

If she owns her home, can she take in a room mate? I'm always surprised at how resistant people are to this easy way to increase income. A room mate at $500 a month could pay off most of her debt in three years.

She does have a debt to income problem, so finding ways to make extra money are really important. If getting a raise or a better paying job is not an option, then a side gig can help. Could she do babysitting in the evenings? Does she have any skills for crafts that could be sold?

Btw, I don't think you mentioned her age?

She is in her late 50s, owns her home but will probably laugh at me when I suggest a roommate (although I will throw the idea out there). She cleans offices once in a while and makes jewelry to sell, so she has a couple side gigs...

Christof

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 03:38:45 PM »
Try to figure out what the actual interest rate is... All motivating paying off debt doesn't matter, if she can't even pay back the interest rate. She would only increase debt to the point of personal bankruptcy.

Rosy

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 05:29:12 PM »
It's never easy to have someone else look at your finances and start questioning your decisions. After all, she is an adult and has somehow managed so far:) and I guess her kid turned out fine too:)
Appreciate the opportunity she is giving you to help her out of this fine mess - with the right attitude from both sides she will one day proudly say how clever her son in law? is.

Considering that she is in her late 50s and that she has two side gigs already plus she has a full time job, I'd say this is someone who has seen the light.
She may be a bit reluctant to show you all the statements - I mean, it is embarrassing for her. Try to remember that it is much harder for her than for you:), even if you don't think so at present.
So be kind and let her know you are on her side against those evil credit card companies. You'll figure it out together - no big deal, unless you make it so:)

There are always options, so let her make the final decision on which way to go about it - once you have developed a strategy. If she is not part of the process she has no skin in the game.

1. Here are a couple considerations - you said she cleans occasionally, have her specifically find two jobs a week that she can reliably do and dedicate that income directly to the lowest credit card balance until it is paid off.
It would be a commitment that quickly pays off - result first paid off card. Yay!

After the first card is paid off thanks to her efforts, she can then decide if she can handle the extra work of two gigs and if not, drop one. Pick the next lowest balance card and that is the only way that card will be paid off, since obviously her income is not enough to handle her past lifestyle.

I bet there will be at least two cards that will be relatively easy wins. It's just that it all has become too overwhelming for her to deal with, once she realized that she cannot fully pay off any of her credit cards anymore. It's depressing and upsetting - been there done that:)

One good thing that will happen right away is, that from now on there will no more late payments - saving not just the late fees, but the terrible consequence of suddenly having to pay something like 27% interest - that is indeed evil!

2. The card with the highest balance and/or the highest interest rate - that is the one you will focus on. Call the credit card company to reduce the interest, more than once if the first call was not successful. If need be, discuss if you can help her pay off just this one bogey bear credit card.
Whatever makes sense to you - no need to pay it all off for her.
Perhaps you could pay it for the next six months or pay half each month until it is paid off - whatever it takes to take the pressure off, so she can breathe again and feel like she can handle the rest on her own.

If her credit isn't totally shot to hell, you might consider a zero percent interest card for 15 months if possible, to use for a balance transfer. Or if she happens to have one credit card with some room and a significantly better interest rate - transfer a partial balance, to at least get some relief.
Do the math for every card and reshuffle if you can.

3. Come up with a realistic pay off plan and make sure you really have a good understanding of her true monthly expenses. You don't want to set her up for failure - if next month her taxes on the house are due or whatever it would derail her immediately.

4. Don't close any cards - that will hurt her credit. Ask her to freeze all but one card in her freezer in a plastic container filled with water - it won't hurt the cards and she'll feel silly de-thawing them and by the time they are she will hopefully have changed her mind.

5. Understand that she may need one card, maybe there is one card at a decent rate and middling balance with rewards points, that she can continue to use. If that is out of the question, buy her a prepaid card for say $200 or $500, the kind you can buy at your bank that is refillable.
It may make sense for you to contribute say $100 to her budget for the next six months so she isn't forced to use the card just to get through the month.
You could refill her card online once a month for $100 - just a suggestion.

It is good of you to want to help, but without having an accurate and concise picture of all of her finances the credit card dilemma cannot be fixed. She needs a good long term plan, not overly ambitious to where she is doomed to fail - rather set her up to win, by working out several different scenarios with her.

6. Don't forget to look into if there are rewards points that may be redeemed as cash or used for the payment balance. If there is more than one, let her have the cash from one of the cards, the rest goes to balance payoff.
I obviously don't know her, but I like little rewards and a free bottle of wine thanks to the credit card company while I celebrate slaying the dragon, can be a good motivator.
Cheers to you, you blood sucking ...:)

7. ... and of course, the two biggies,
get her credit report from all three agencies, free once a year:)
and set up online access for each credit card for both you and her, so that you can monitor usage and payments.
... and while you are at it, set up the automatic payments that you agreed on, according to the pay off plan!!!

Obviously you want to make everything as clear and easy and transparent as possible, without her full involvement this cannot be a success.

Think of this as a long term project, so go easy, review and sleep on it and discuss a time or two, before you finalize your first plan - TOGETHER. Be flexible and ready to make adjustments along the way. She may surprise you and take off running, once she sees a way out of her devilish dilemma.
Too much debt and not enough money to deal with it has a way of messing with your head - ask anyone who's ever been under water.
 
 

8. Jewelry making - an expensive hobby:)
First off, jewelry making is addictive and expensive and leads to hoarding - it is also super fun and can bring in good money at the right venues. Having a creative outlet is wonderful and stress reducing, but if she is forced to "work" at it, it will backfire.
Encourage her to go through her supplies and challenge her to create a new collection for sale, made only from her current stash.
Discuss if she has a venue where she likes to sell, or if she could set up a website with her jewelry, so it is up by October at the latest to be ready for Christmas sales.

Try to gauge if this is a viable way for her to pay off some debt - it may very well not be. Ask her to seriously consider whether this is a winning solution or a losing proposition.
No judgement here, it is what it is. This is simply a discussion about what, where and how, if at all.
If she is good, she might be able to teach classes or at the very least make a custom necklace set for a grand kid or a friend instead of adding debt to her credit card for holiday gifts.

I make jewelry for gifts, but I don't sell any, for me it would take the joy out of a creative process, but I do sell my photography online - so go figure.

Good luck - I hope it all goes well for both of you!:)  You can do this!

Debt consolidation - sounds like the easy way out, but not only do they charge for it, there are plenty of them that are criminal, don't send in the payments as agreed and do no monitoring at all. Don't become a statistic with a horror tale to tell - sort it out, yourself, call the companies you need to and set up your own action plan.
With today's online banking and automatic payment options there is no reason not to tackle this matter yourself.






Cali Nonya

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 05:44:23 PM »
I only know from second hand experience that people who get into trouble with credit cards won't get out of trouble until they hit a pain point.  The one example I am thinking of, they did the debt consolidation, got it reigned in, only to be back at where they started within 2 years.  This was a rinse and repeat cycle until basically divorce (so I don't know if the problem person got any better, I knew the SO).

I don't know of any good examples.

Rosy

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 05:59:04 PM »
^^^ how about a good 25% or more of all the mustachians on this board?:) ^^^




kpd905

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 06:45:30 PM »
Try to figure out what her expenses are.  Having credit card debt means that she feels that she deserves to spend more than she earns.

Cali Nonya

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 06:55:28 PM »
^^^ how about a good 25% or more of all the mustachians on this board?:) ^^^

I should have said, I don't personally know of any good examples.

The pattern of cyclic behavior with debt is something to consider though, especially if you are in the position of helping someone.  I have actually seen that several times, the person helping the family member gets very burnt out when they help someone get all caught up, just for that person to end up right back where they started.

Laura33

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2017, 08:15:36 AM »
So preliminary question:  has she asked you for help, or is this you wanting to help?  And if she asked you for help, how can you be sure that she was in fact asking for advice, instead of either venting or indirectly hinting, "gee, you have money, you should give me some of that to make this go away"?

Generally speaking, people who haven't asked for help don't actually want advice -- and probably 80% of people who *do* ask for help don't actually want advice either!  If she hasn't already come to you with all of those statements she promised and sat down to develop a plan, she is probably not yet interested.  If that is the case, anything you offer will not be well-received.  So just be patient and open -- "really sorry, MIL, that sounds tough.  So what are you planning to do about it?  Let me know if you want my advice."  Etc.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2017, 03:44:55 PM »
So preliminary question:  has she asked you for help, or is this you wanting to help?  And if she asked you for help, how can you be sure that she was in fact asking for advice, instead of either venting or indirectly hinting, "gee, you have money, you should give me some of that to make this go away"?

Generally speaking, people who haven't asked for help don't actually want advice -- and probably 80% of people who *do* ask for help don't actually want advice either!  If she hasn't already come to you with all of those statements she promised and sat down to develop a plan, she is probably not yet interested.  If that is the case, anything you offer will not be well-received.  So just be patient and open -- "really sorry, MIL, that sounds tough.  So what are you planning to do about it?  Let me know if you want my advice."  Etc.

If this is the case, I would suggest buying her a copy of Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover book. It was written for her.

Rosy

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2017, 06:14:48 PM »
So preliminary question:  has she asked you for help, or is this you wanting to help?  And if she asked you for help, how can you be sure that she was in fact asking for advice, instead of either venting or indirectly hinting, "gee, you have money, you should give me some of that to make this go away"?

Generally speaking, people who haven't asked for help don't actually want advice -- and probably 80% of people who *do* ask for help don't actually want advice either!  If she hasn't already come to you with all of those statements she promised and sat down to develop a plan, she is probably not yet interested.  If that is the case, anything you offer will not be well-received.  So just be patient and open -- "really sorry, MIL, that sounds tough.  So what are you planning to do about it?  Let me know if you want my advice." Etc.

If this is the case, I would suggest buying her a copy of Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover book. It was written for her.

Good point Laura - I love the ... really sorry, MIL that sounds tough, so what are you planning to do about it?
But, I got the impression that she is coming over with all of her information, if half of it is missing though - it would be the right time to say, "Let me know when you have it all together"- here is a list of what I need to help you. I'll be here ready to help when you do.

Don't buy her Ramsey's book, just have her check it out from the library and ask her to come up with a plan based on the book to give us a starting point in slaying the dragon. It is the first step in fixing this mess.

Rosy

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2017, 06:44:06 PM »
^^^ how about a good 25% or more of all the mustachians on this board?:) ^^^

I should have said, I don't personally know of any good examples.

The pattern of cyclic behavior with debt is something to consider though, especially if you are in the position of helping someone.  I have actually seen that several times, the person helping the family member gets very burnt out when they help someone get all caught up, just for that person to end up right back where they started.

Good point, Cali, but I think that is exactly the crux of the matter. Getting caught up means nothing, without new tools to use in the future or a shift in perspective.

mustachedad

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Re: Help me help my mother-in-law get out of CC debt!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 08:02:19 PM »
Thanks again... to answer some questions she kind of asked for help, and then I asked for the statements so the ball is in her court to see if she really is interested in slaying this dragon. I really don't want to seem like a pushy, busybody trying to get into her business, so I will only keep it up if she is comfortable with my help/advice.

I probably won't see her for a couple weeks. I will hopefully be able to bring you all some facts at that point. Really appreciating all the help.