Have you tried getting in contact with Florida Adult Protective Services to see if they can help?
https://www.myflfamilies.com/service-programs/adult-protective-services/
Other than that, I would suggest:
1). Moving your mother to Vermont just for a year or two is dislocating to someone with limited abilities to cope and whose life is already upended, and also impractical and expensive due to the housing situation. I think you should give up on it. And moving her to Michigan when you don't know when you will be therej or where in the State you will be is a non-starter at the moment.
2) It doesn't sound as though your mother is in a position to deal with the sale of her house, or even maintain and clean it (having it smell of smoke will not help a sale). How are you going to manage the sale from a distance and during a pandemic? If you are not going to sell immediately, how are you going to manage the maintenance? (Also, given she's a smoker, I hope it's insured and the insurance has been notified about the smoking.)
3) I'm presuming that she can't get a licence because of the drinking. If she can't live in her current house without driving then that is good reason to sell both house and car immediately and move her into a rental where she doesn't have to drive- if such a thing exists? Could the Florida services help with that? You could perhaps present it as a temporary move while she regroups, has a winter in Florida rather than up north and then looks to move north in the spring.
4) You do at some point need to get to grips with what her social security entitlement will be and when she can take it.
I had no idea there was such a thing as adult protective services. I'll try reaching out to them.
1) I'm largely in agreement. Florida is no less expensive than Vermont however, and she can't continue to stay in her house.
2) My thought was to do some research and hire a realtor. Frankly, even though the house is nice, it's likely to be bulldozed and a mansion built in its place. The condition of the house is going to be irrelevant to most prospective buyers.
3) That's correct - a DUI some 20+ years ago. In Florida, the first offense is (or was) a felony charge, and I believe she had two. I have no ability to sell the car, as it's exempt from probate and the estate. I've advised her to get rid of it, but don't want to undermine her at least until I'm finished as executor of the estate. I'm skeptical of any effective Florida services, but finding a rental to winter there might be the right move regardless.
4) I have no idea who to contact about this, or where to gather this information. Vermont has advisors who (for free) guide people through understanding what services they have access to, but I'm unaware of any such thing in Florida.
Wow, that's a lot. Is she depressed or medicated for depression? Losing 20% of her body weight is certainly a big deal. While you figure out this whole move, could you have groceries delivered to her? Is it a matter or no food or just no desire to eat? If someone is depressed, they could have all the food in the world and still not eat.
I promise I won't keep saying this...but moving her up north will not solve these issues. Even if you bring her food, check on her, etc, you can't force her to eat. :(
No medication that I'm aware of. Her husband's death was a very messy suicide - he apparently had a very aggressive brain cancer with no hope of recovery, and rather than lengthy and expensive medical procedures that would have just eaten everything left to them, he hid it from her until his cognitive abilities took a sharp decline, and then took his life. Needless to say, she was a mess in the weeks following. I don't have a great sense of how well she was before this.
As for groceries, she's getting some items delivered now and eating again, but I don't have the time nor mind to micromanage from 2,000 miles away and I don't think she's eating well.
Some years back I went through something similar with my father, major difference being that I had a good relationship with him as an adult. He had an OTJ injury in Florida and eventually ran out of means to take care of himself, and he wasn't old enough for social security either. Once up here, Vermont provided him with comprehensive free healthcare and services, and he was able to bring in a very limited income to make up the rest. I dropped by frequently to feed him healthy meals, and helped him get to medical appointments. He told me early on he loved it here and wanted to stay right where he was until he passed - which he did. I was a wreck afterward, but I don't regret it. It was also freeing, however, when he passed.
How old is she? A widow can collect on her late husband's account as early as 60 I understand.
55, nearly 56. I believe she will be able to collect on both my father's and her late second husband's accounts.
Are you the son whose involvement in her life is giving her a will to live? Or is there someone else who she needs to stay close to?
I am the son. I realize I referred to myself in third person and that may have been confusing. No other children.
Going through a very challenging situation myself with my dad, I really empathize with what you’re dealing with.
It is not my intent to sound ruthless or uncaring, but I am wondering why you’ve not had a relationship with your mom in a decade. Was it your decision or hers? Additionally, do you really want to step in and assist or do you feel obligated? Is it the threat of suicide that makes you feel you should be more available to her? What are you hoping will happen by having her move closer to you, aside from the obvious desire to keep her from becoming homeless? Is there any hope of her getting her alcoholism under control or will moving her near you simply result in you having to deal with her chaos on a more regular basis?
Sorry for all the questions. These are things I ask myself as I work through my own family challenges.
Best wishes for a safe & successful outcome.
Thank you for your kind words, and you bring up some extremely valid points.
It was originally my decision not to have a relationship. My family had a lot of tragedy, and while my mother was an amazingly single parent for many years, she eventually descended into alcoholism, and my teenage years were rough from collateral damage. Some of it I'm still unpacking. I think it's only recently that I've gotten over most of my negative feelings toward her, having processed that she wasn't intentionally being a villain and an abuser. Hurt people hurt people.
I think my therapist would point out that I have a tendency to step in and take responsibility where I don't always need to.
It isn't an obligation. Had you asked me a year ago, I might have said I'd just as soon Beetlejuice disappeared from the world, but she has become a person to me again, I'm no longer the traumatized child, and she's no longer the despairing and self destructive parent to a dependent. I believe (perhaps naively) that I can effectively set boundaries and let her chaos be her chaos. I don't have a good sense of the alcoholism, especially since I've only started talking to her again since her husband's passing. It wasn't something that ever got better with my father, but as he got older, it changed (or he did (or I did)) and I was able to have a healthy relationship with him.
I think you need to slow down and think very carefully about several things...
First off, have the circumstances that led to your 10 year estrangement changed?
You haven't had a relationship for a decade, she is an alcoholic, with no way to support herself.
So moving her halfway across the country near you, and essentially becoming her caretaker, would seem to be fraught with all sorts of danger.
Second, she is currently living on the beach in Florida, and you want her to relocate to Vermont???
I think there is a high likelihood that she would be absolutely miserable.
Third, it sounds like she is broke, with no way to provide for herself financially.
The only money she has is $400K in equity, that will be reduced by ~$45K when she eventually sells.
Will $350K be enough for her to survive on until SS kicks in? Will SS even cover her monthly expenses?
I don't see any way that she can buy a house with cash AND be able to subsist on the remaining balance.
I agree with most of your points. The ones I'd likely dispute are:
-My father lived in the South his entire life, and had salt water for blood, but ended up falling in love with Vermont, just as I did, and it was a joy to share it with him. That's not direct evidence about my mother, but most people who have spent significant time here seem to think it's one of the most beautiful and peaceful places in the US.
-If she's broke, I've been destitute my entire life. I'm only just now approaching net zero with student loans, putting around 70% of my take-home toward them. I could live on 350k for 15-20 years, not taking into account inflation and the rising cost of things. Without a mortgage or any student debt, it could last me longer. Just how does a person spend $350,000 in 4 years?
All else being equal, I've seriously considered pointing her toward an area such as Grand Haven in Michigan. The cost of living is low. Crime rate is low, unlike most of Florida. She can get a nice, clean house for $135,000 within walking distance of groceries and a gorgeous beach. Michigan is one of the few states likely to give her a driver's license again, which would give her a good shot at staying on the right side of the law. That would leave her with around $50,000 per year to make it the next 4 years, with no debts and no mortgage. I'd be shocked if she couldn't make it last. Not counting the winters, I don't think she can have the same quality of life in Florida as she could in a place like that. Financially, it makes sense and is a place I'd strongly consider if I were retired.
Recap I see from your responses...
- You have had no relationship with her for over a decade.
- Her husband that is not any relation to you died, and for some reason YOU were named HIS executor?
- She does not currently work and likely has not in some time, and may not be able to hold down any sort of job and lost her driving license permanently and is driving without insurance/license?
- She has at best ~$400k to last her until she can draw off her dead spouse's SS? Also unclear on assets - you say she has a house to sell but then mention "ONE of the sailboats" what the hell does she actually HAVE? No idea if it's gotta last a few years or a few decades since you did not provide her age, or any other details.
- She is a drama queen and/or severe mental issues in addition to alcoholic, and has threatened suicide.
Why are you even thinking of stepping in here? What's in it for you? Did she call you up out of the blue, threatening to off herself unless you fly to her rescue? If so, you need to take a GIANT step back into reality. Please don't rush in to be her white knight. She's not your responsibility and this is not your problem to figure out. You can offer to do X or even X+ Y and Z, but you should not be swooping in and saving her from actual hard work and reality.
She doesn't want to rent? Tough shit. She can't take care of or afford to buy a house. Tell her you'll act as the executor, handle the paperwork and get the sale of the current property (and the boats and other crap) taken care of, and you can tell her at that point - you have X money. I would suggest renting a nice little one bedroom in a middle class area of Florida that has all the maintenance handled for you and if you get a part time job, you likely can afford a reasonable nice life until retirement age when you can maybe add some fun stuff if the former spouse earned enough to cover the expenses at that point. Don't like that idea? Cool, but I'm not available to bail you out 3 years from now when the money runs out and the house you insisted you had to buy needs the roof replaced or you're being kicked out of because you can't afford the payments. There is always welfare and section 8, and I'll be happy to help you apply for those, but your running out of the money because you insisted on living a lifestyle you can't afford and the using me to supplement isn't an option.
Any threats of killing herself or doing harm to herself tell her that if she persists in saying those things, you need to prioritize first. Tell her no matter what else is happening, she needs to stop this kind of talk and you can help her find counseling or get her into an inpatient clinic if she feels like she's unable to deal at all, but this is not something you're going to let pass. There are mental health services available in most populated areas - non-profit/charity/church/sliding scale if she has no insurance, but most insurance also covers.
DO NOT MOVE HER INTO YOUR AREA. DO NOT DO THIS. YOU WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HER EVERYTHING IF YOU DO THIS. LEAVE HER TO SORT HER LIFE OUT HERSELF IN FLORIDA. Seriously. If she has few friends and lack of a support system - no work, church, social ANYTHING... how on earth do you think she's going to handle moving to a new city and state where her *dear* son and DIL are just ready-made to wait in attendance? Do not do this to yourself, your wife or your marriage. Protect it and the wife if you value them and keep the alcoholic, mentally ill parent at a very long arm's length.
I am horrified that she's driving without insurance and a license as an alcoholic by the way. I am not sure I would be able to restrain myself from reporting her/vehicle to the local cops. She may kill someone or do major damage to some innocent person(s) because she is so selfish. This is... seriously something I'd not let continue. And yet you're talking about her moving to your state/neighborhood as if it's NBD that this known alcoholic that was so bad she is permanently barred from legally driving a motor vehicle and unlikely to even get insurance coverage? Your mom is too selfish to stop endangering others and reckless enough to do so without any way of paying them back for her assholerly.
Honestly, I advise you strongly to not take on the costs or headaches of "managing" your mother's life. Don't make any real suggestions about her moving to where you are, or anything. You can lend her an ear to listen to her woes, but tell her "wow, that sounds really hard. What are you going to do about that?" and leave it in her hands. She has bigger issues at play and she apparently didn't care about your relationship enough before to work at it, and the only reason she appears to be tapping you in now is because her spouse died and she needs someone else to step in to be her caretaker. You don't have to do this at all, but if you feel it absolutely necessary to do the minimums, protect your heart and use your head here and don't be manipulated or guilted into doing things that are hurtful or harmful for your own self or family. Lay out best case, minimum involvement scenarios and then let her figure things out for herself if your suggestions are not good enough for her.
Great points, thank you.
Looking at it like a cold hearted economist, when she passes (which could be tomorrow, from a heart attack), I'm the sole inheritor of whatever is left, and I'll have to deal with it then, if not now. Her second husband was a man I knew and respected. He had no children and no living relatives. I'm rather glad to be sorting out the estate while she's still alive, if nothing else.
In addition to the house, there are maybe $50,000 worth of sailboats, another $10,000 in equity in vehicles, and an unknown amount in the antiques, paintings and furnishings of the house. Very conservatively, let's call this another $15 grand. There is a retirement account with another $15,000 in it, and another $15,000 or so in cash. She has some expenses to deal with as a result of her husband's death. I'd say she's likely to walk away from that property with very roughly 400k liquid, with everything settled.
I really don't want any of her stuff. Historically, she hasn't been a drama queen and I'm fairly certain she was close to dying after her husband passed. Historically she has been quietly self-destructive, and it was very damaging to be a dependent under her roof while that happened.
I made sure to exempt the vehicles before I took executorship of the estate, for liability reasons.
~
I'm feeling a bit "tough shit" about renting as well, and I appreciate your directness. I'm also horrified at the idea of her driving - this is part of my motivation to move her somewhere that I can drop off groceries and keep her off the roads, but you've made great points about why this ill-advised. Suggesting just what you have is likely a wise course of action, and this is exactly the kind of advice I need. Whether I take it to the letter is another matter, but it's important to hear it regardless.
She's not going to go to a mental health clinic. She does not trust doctors or authorities. She will literally die first. And that wouldn't be my problem or my fault.
I'll definitely be keeping up with this thread and will report back with what actually happens.