Help jumping off the Hamster Wheel

[AmyByExample]

So, I want to sit down with hubby and discuss what we can do to end this debt cycle once & for all.  We have been working to go debt free since 2007, and clearly we haven't fully committed, because it's like treading water.  Part of the issue is I get sick of being the kill-joy / bad guy who says "we need to cut back on A, B or C" where my husband's solution to everything is to work more & increase income.

Quick & dirty of our backstory - started our marriage with 100K in student loan debt(now paid off), had kids & started accumulating credit card debt(paid off), bought the bigger house that was the fixer-upper in the nice neighborhood that has been drinking our money (boiler, hot water tank, woodpecker rotted siding, etc.) - Enter the panic that our kids are growing up too fast & becoming too attached to electronics & after a flooded out camping trip filled with one too many bear encounters, we bought a small hybrid travel trailer (which needed a truck to pull it... ugh!)

So, Hubby & I are both 40.  We have 3 kids (13, 11 & 8) (plus 2 dogs)

Hubby works full time @ a job with great health insurance and a pension/retiree health - net pay is $1,733 bi-weekly

I work 30 hours/week with a bi-weekly of $1,800

Hubby has a 2nd job that brings in ~$200-$500/month

Debts:
Mortgage: $137K (market value ~239K)
2007 Ford Flex: $7,300
2010 Ford Expedition: $17,500
Camper: $18,500
Home Equity: $47,000

Savings:
Savings Account: $1,600
401K: $137K
Roth IRA: 14K
Kids College 529 Savings
13 yr old = 2,800
11 yr old = 1,400
8 yr old = 1,500

If it were up to me, I would move a few miles closer to both of our jobs to a more central spot with biking/walking possibilities with a budget of 165K or less which would bring our property taxes down from $7K+/yr to $3,500/yr and also lower utilities & insurance (would get us an older home ~1400 sqft)

Sell the camper (again, assuming my Evil Queen role as my husband is completely opposed, but we can't afford it) - plus the insurance is $265/yr + maintenance costs

Now that we don't need the truck to pull the camper, trade that in for something smaller, cheaper & better on gas

Is this a dumb plan, or too extreme?  I think this is the least that is necessary, but my husband thinks I worry too much.  I appreciate your advice!

Please let me know if you need any other details.

Amy

[pzxc]

As long as you never plan to retire, your husband is right.

Personally, I think your plan is exactly what you need to do, but it's not extreme enough.

I would sell the house and use the $50k in proceed (after primary mortgage and HELOC are paid off) to pay all 3 of your DEPRECIATING ASSET loans.
Then I would sell all 3 of those DEPRECIATING ASSETS and buy vehicles, in cash, that realistically meet your needs.
Then I would vow never to borrow money to buy a DEPRECIATING ASSET ever again.

In the meantime, while all of that is underway, I would get the family on a written budget.
If they are unwilling to budget, the VERY LEAST I would do is put all accounts on Mint so that it tracks every penny being earned and spent, even if it's not budgeted.
Then after I had some facts about what we were spending too much money on, I would put the family on a budget whether they knew about it or not (i.e., I would prepare and enforce the budget for them)

You guys make too much money to be so broke.

[Dyk]

Your husband needs to be on board, the last 7 years have proved that.

With your income you could turn the ship around quickly, but it won't work on your own . . . . until then specific plans will just frustrate you.

I wish I had something to help you, but if he is already sick of hearing your take, he needs to come to the conclusion himself probably . . . . leave MMM articles up on the computer?

[Future Lazy]

In most Stubborn SO situations, the advice is usually to "ground" the financially irresponsible spouse by giving them a fixed spending limit...

Is there a way to restructure the finances so there is a large pool out of which bills and savings come, and then each of you get a fixed allowance from that?

I would write up a detailed plan and make a presentation that projects your current financial situation for the next 20+ years, and another that shows what the difference would be with moderation and responsibility.

[frugaliknowit]

No, definitely not too extreme.  You guys need to be rid of loans on depreciating assets and minimize the depreciating assets.  Next attack the home equity balance.  All of this needs to be done while on a budget, so you don't re-inflate the debt balloon.

[MDM]

Although selling the house may give you the biggest financial leverage, how will it affect non-financial things?  I'm thinking particularly of kids' schools - will they have to change? 

If you can pull off the house move while keeping peace in the family, by all means go now before the kids get into high school (if the move would put them in a different high school).

But if that would be too much stress (and it easily could be), you can and should do a lot of smaller things that will add up.

You need a plan, and you need to track progress vs. that plan.  It is also good to have alternatives for comparison while you develop your plan.  One alternative is always "do nothing."  Thus you should project (e.g. with www.cfiresim.com) your future if you make no changes.  At least one of you will learn something (this is pretty mush what KaylaEM is also suggesting).

If that exercise persuades DH that changes are needed, other posts have specific suggestions.  Or you could do a Reader Case Study when you have your information assembled.

[NonprofitER]

Moving is very case-specific, but it's not necessarily too extreme.  It depends on how you feel about the house, schools, etc.

The bigger issues, already hit on, is that you have so much debt tied up in depreciating cars/camper. 

You mentioned over $100k of student loan debt.  Do you still have that debt as well?  Or did you and your husband work together to pay that off?  If you've already paid that debt, there would be reason enough to believe you can work together to sell/pay down the debts you have now without necessarily moving.  If you're still carrying student loan debt, then drastic measures may be what you need to really break the cycle. 

[dunhamjr]

unfortunately, you really need to get your husband on board to make anything significant happen.

you can push on a number of things to help bring expenses down.
cooking more, cheap meal planning, calling about various services you pay for (cable, cell, insurance, etc) to see about bringing the monthly costs down.

things like moving will be harder since that's a BIG thing because you would need full husband buy-in PLUS the potential uprooting of 3 kids from their schools/friends.

without hubs buy-in you might even be able to swing getting rid of your Flex for something a little cheaper and more efficient.  shouldnt affect him too much, but could be a way to kill off some debt AND expenses at least on your side of the vehicle equation.

your plan doesnt sound extreme to me.  its more about trimming some major flab.  unfortunately it looks a lot more like your husband is happy working till death, and will rely on his pension and SS to get you two through old age.  without his buy-in, the changes possible are just going to be a small dent.

[AmyByExample]

Thank you all for these great tips which I will definitely get to work on.

From 2007-2012 I did a written budget each month (although it really became more of a tracking of how much was spent for any category not in my complete control) - but, this did work to get rid of our remaining student loan balance and we paid off about 40K in credit card debt.

As far as moving, I've confined the search to our current school district so it wouldn't be too disruptive to the kids.

I'm going to check out those projection sites - maybe that will do the trick.

Amy