The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: Omy on December 08, 2021, 07:10:27 PM
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I'm not a hoarder in most things. I'm not a shopper. I don't have tons of clothes or shoes or bags or collectibles or home decor. My house doesn't look cluttered - in fact most people would think I'm a minimalist.
But for some reason, I can't let "important" paper go. I have 40 years of tax returns, bank statements, investment statements, pay stubs, etc etc etc. Intellectually I know I don't need to keep it all, but it makes me anxious to let it go.
It's not a health hazard. The paper is somewhat organized. I used to file it diligently, but life got crazy and now it's in boxes and filed by year instead of by type.
What's your best advice on how to let some (most?) of this paper go?
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What about scanning it all (so you have a record, which might help your worry about not having it) and then shredding the stuff that's over 7 years old?
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Okay...but why? What purpose could these papers possibly ever serve?
As has already been said, scan what you really could need and shred the rest. I personally don't keep anything other than what I absolutely have to. But I don't keep paper in my house in general. It's gross and it's what silverfish eat.
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What about scanning it all (so you have a record, which might help your worry about not having it) and then shredding the stuff that's over 7 years old?
+1 on scan it all.
Also, why wait 7 years? I wait about 18 months. Almost all of my material records are scanned. Half the time things like heat-sensitive receipts wouldn't last 7 years anyway, so they're going to have to accept a photocopy/scan in the off chance I get audited anyway.
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You literally need almost none of it. Don't scan it, that's a massive waste of time. Almost everything you have mentioned (bank statements, investment statements, pay stubs) can immediately be shredded. Figure out why you are keeping it and LET IT GO.
What about letting it go makes you anxious? What is the worst thing that will happen if you throw away a record and then you need it? How many things in those boxes could you find another way?
I'd suggest setting up a self-purging filing system and using those guidelines for what to keep. I use Freedom Filer, which is free to set up on your own, or you can buy a kit. https://www.freedomfiler.com/
The trick with Freedom Filer is it has a year's worth of monthly files that you can stash "might needs" in, like receipts. This keeps decisions to a minimum and gives you time to decide if you really need to keep a piece of paper.
I literally have a single filing drawer of paper records, and can always put my hands on any important record in minutes.
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You literally need almost none of it. Don't scan it, that's a massive waste of time. Almost everything you have mentioned (bank statements, investment statements, pay stubs) can immediately be shredded. Figure out why you are keeping it and LET IT GO.
What about letting it go makes you anxious? What is the worst thing that will happen if you throw away a record and then you need it? How many things in those boxes could you find another way?
I'd suggest setting up a self-purging filing system and using those guidelines for what to keep. I use Freedom Filer, which is free to set up on your own, or you can buy a kit. https://www.freedomfiler.com/
The trick with Freedom Filer is it has a year's worth of monthly files that you can stash "might needs" in, like receipts. This keeps decisions to a minimum and gives you time to decide if you really need to keep a piece of paper.
I literally have a single filing drawer of paper records, and can always put my hands on any important record in minutes.
This is very, very true.
When I say scan what you absolutely need, I mean and incredibly small number of documents. All of my tax documents are scanned just because I send them to my accountant, but otherwise, I rarely scan anything, and o shred everything.
The vast majority of "important" documents are not important, and are often easily retrievable from their sources.
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I always refer back to the list in Get a Financial Life by Beth Kobliner. Most papers can be shredded after a year. Taxes, confirmation of final payment on loans (or things like utilities if you move), end of year pay stubs, extended warranties, receipts for big items that you might need if your house burns down with the receipts in it, insurance policies are some of the things to keep for longer. Best to just check out the book, though.
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I haven't seen silverfish...that would cure me instantly.
I will check out freedomfiler.com and Get a Financial Life.
I don't know what's at the root of my compulsion. My grandmother was an actual hoarder who never threw out ANYTHING. She had piles of magazines and newspapers filling up every square foot of living space - so maybe I inherited her hoarding gene (but bought a house big enough to store my paper in a "civilized" way - in lots of boxes on lots of shelves.)
I'm not trying to excuse or justify this behavior. I'm just trying to figure out how to get past the anxiety and actually get it under control. I understand logically that I probably won't ever need 99% of it. And I know a lot of stuff is stored digitally already. And the penalty for not having a piece of paper or receipt I need is probably pretty small. So how do I rally the logical side of my brain to overrule the emotional side?
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You'll get over your anxiety once it's done.
Easiest way to get it done, is pick any one piece of paper and shred/burn it. Then grab the next one, then grab handfuls of paper, and the grab a whole box and go bananas removing the paper burden from your life.
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When is the last time you needed an old pay stub? How old was the pay stub you needed?
When is the last time you needed to refer to an old utility bill, or cancelled check or medical receipt, etc.?
I used to keep old documents like this but finally went through and shredded everything. I now get all statements/bills electronically and do not print copies, unless I have a specific need to do so. For items I must receive by mail, I shred them at year end or when I’m doing taxes early the next year.
I keep house purchase docs and previously owned house docs - mortgage docs, payoff info, deed, etc. I also keep about 10 years of tax returns. All else gets shredded. I have everything, including current & former house docs, car titles, birth certificates, marriage license and tax stuff in a two drawer file cabinet. No other paper.
A question you might ask yourself is “What’s the worst that could happen if I get rid of something I later need?” My guess is it’s nothing too catastrophic.
Would you consider gathering all boxes that are older than one year and moving them to a location such as the garage, and if one more year goes by without you needing to access the records take it all to a place that shreds such material?
Now if I could just sort through, organize & scan decades of photos…definitely a rainy day project.
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Make a fire pit and use it as a starter to roast some marshmallows with it at night.
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Please, for the sake of your loved ones, purge that shit! I had to help my parents purge decades of mail recently. While it royally sucked, it would have been so much worse I had to deal with it should they have died suddenly.
I understand the reluctance to get rid of papers. What if I need this or that? Shredding is tedious. Constantly dealing with paper is a chore. Once you get the current situation in hand, it gets easier to handle going forward once you give yourself rules.
Over the years I have gradually switched all my bills to ebills so I don't have to deal with those each month. Junk mail gets tossed as soon as it comes in the door. I keep a copy of my taxes electronically. That just leaves medical bills/EOBs, some tax documents, car maintenance records, reference documents and miscellaneous receipts. Every year on New Years day I go through the file cabinet to recycle non personal paper and shred personal paper. Tax related docs get shredded at 7years. Car and home purchase docs get kept as long as I own the asset. Receipts (from big purchases) get shredded each year or when the warranty is up. Medical bills and EOBs used to get shredded at the end of the year but after some recent billing issues, I've been keeping those for a few years. Pretty much everything else is disposed of at year end. I could probably eliminate the file cabinet by scanning the few things I keep but I don't have a scanner and that seem like overkill in my situation.
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House fire and it's all gone anyway. Scan it. Trash it. It's liberating. Ask me how I know.
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I haven't seen silverfish...that would cure me instantly.
I will check out freedomfiler.com and Get a Financial Life.
I don't know what's at the root of my compulsion. My grandmother was an actual hoarder who never threw out ANYTHING. She had piles of magazines and newspapers filling up every square foot of living space - so maybe I inherited her hoarding gene (but bought a house big enough to store my paper in a "civilized" way - in lots of boxes on lots of shelves.)
I'm not trying to excuse or justify this behavior. I'm just trying to figure out how to get past the anxiety and actually get it under control. I understand logically that I probably won't ever need 99% of it. And I know a lot of stuff is stored digitally already. And the penalty for not having a piece of paper or receipt I need is probably pretty small. So how do I rally the logical side of my brain to overrule the emotional side?
Like any emotional hangup, tackle it with basic self help techniques first (mindfulness meditation, basic CBT), and if that fails, seek professional help.
This is a basic maladaptive emotional pattern, and all maladaptive emotional patterns can be overcome. It's not who you are, it's just a pattern you've developed. You're not stuck forever having this kind of reaction if you don't want to.
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You'd be forever scanning all of that stuff.
Find somewhere you can burn it and burn everything except the last five years or so.
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You literally need almost none of it. Don't scan it, that's a massive waste of time. Almost everything you have mentioned (bank statements, investment statements, pay stubs) can immediately be shredded. Figure out why you are keeping it and LET IT GO.
What about letting it go makes you anxious? What is the worst thing that will happen if you throw away a record and then you need it? How many things in those boxes could you find another way?
I'd suggest setting up a self-purging filing system and using those guidelines for what to keep. I use Freedom Filer, which is free to set up on your own, or you can buy a kit. https://www.freedomfiler.com/
The trick with Freedom Filer is it has a year's worth of monthly files that you can stash "might needs" in, like receipts. This keeps decisions to a minimum and gives you time to decide if you really need to keep a piece of paper.
I literally have a single filing drawer of paper records, and can always put my hands on any important record in minutes.
I'm looking for a better system and love the look of Freedom Filer. I currently have everything important semi-organized in folders and binders in a smallish firebox; I would much prefer a hanging folder system but worry about safety. Do you have stuff in a fireproof box or no?
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I agree with Malcat that this is an emotional problem, not an organizational one. You're using all this paper as a crutch to fulfill some emotional need, and identifying that need will help you overcome this. Some options (just spitballing here):
- you have some fear of authority figures/IRS and this feels like it will keep you safe
- you worry if your life has meant something and having all this paper feels like a record of accomplishments
- once when you were a kid your parent lost some very important document and it scarred you for life
etc...
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I bought a scansnap and after an hour of setting up some categories in Google Drive, I now scan and/or toss about 95% of paper that comes in immediately.
The other 5% I normally keep as it has an action required, after which it too gets scanned/tossed.
Scansnap does OCR so it means I can search in Google Drive for text on the pages in the off chance I need it.
I found it helpful for me to setup this system and use it for some time. It made me realize how a bunch of the paper we had before just didn't matter. That emotionally released me from hoarding it and let me get rid of it. Some of it we went back and scanned, but most of it just got pitched/shredded after a few months of having the ScanSnap.
Also if you have that much older stuff, I'd consider taking it to a place that takes bins or stuff for shredding. You'll go crazy trying to shred much yourself and it's super cheap normally do get bulk shredding.
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I agree with Malcat that this is an emotional problem, not an organizational one. You're using all this paper as a crutch to fulfill some emotional need, and identifying that need will help you overcome this. Some options (just spitballing here):
- you have some fear of authority figures/IRS and this feels like it will keep you safe
- you worry if your life has meant something and having all this paper feels like a record of accomplishments
- once when you were a kid your parent lost some very important document and it scarred you for life
etc...
It's probably simpler and more vague than that. OP already indicated coming from a family with hoarding tendencies. The general sense of anxiety to let things go would have been present and normal in their childhood.
If it's only presenting as a fear of letting go of "official" documents, then that's pretty good, and probably won't take a ton of work to process and move past.
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If DH outlives me, the boxes will be gone the day after I die.
I assume extended family would just toss, but that's a good point...no need for that burden to be placed on anybody I love. I don't need them cursing me after I'm gone.
I can see how a fire (that only took out my boxes) could be liberating, but I could never light the match. Did you have an actual fire, Mr. Green?
If you close a credit card or bank account, can you still get online access to your past statements? That would give me some peace of mind.
And if you DID have a major insurance claim and no longer had receipts or statements does the insurance company accept estimates for the value of your treasures?
And how long does the IRS look back? I've read 3 years, 5 years, 6 or 7 years, and longer if they suspect shenanigans.
That doesn't feel definitive enough to start tossing returns and receipts since I have rentals and self employment income and dividends and capital gains income - our taxes are more complicated than average...might they need more years of returns if they decided to dig in?
I know this project will feel good when it's over. I love tossing/donating things that I no longer need. I hate clutter. But the scope and mental burden of this is overwhelming. I really appreciate the advice of everyone here. A bunch of strangers confirming that this behaviour of mine is unhealthy and unnecessary is definitely helping to make the paper seem less important.
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You literally need almost none of it. Don't scan it, that's a massive waste of time. Almost everything you have mentioned (bank statements, investment statements, pay stubs) can immediately be shredded. Figure out why you are keeping it and LET IT GO.
What about letting it go makes you anxious? What is the worst thing that will happen if you throw away a record and then you need it? How many things in those boxes could you find another way?
I'd suggest setting up a self-purging filing system and using those guidelines for what to keep. I use Freedom Filer, which is free to set up on your own, or you can buy a kit. https://www.freedomfiler.com/
The trick with Freedom Filer is it has a year's worth of monthly files that you can stash "might needs" in, like receipts. This keeps decisions to a minimum and gives you time to decide if you really need to keep a piece of paper.
I literally have a single filing drawer of paper records, and can always put my hands on any important record in minutes.
I'm looking for a better system and love the look of Freedom Filer. I currently have everything important semi-organized in folders and binders in a smallish firebox; I would much prefer a hanging folder system but worry about safety. Do you have stuff in a fireproof box or no?
I live on the wild side! We do have a fireproof safe, but I only keep our wills and passports in it. The rest is in a regular file drawer. I thought about getting a larger safe that could accommodate the more important hanging files but with a fireproof safe you have to worry about moisture buildup and ain’t nobody got time for that.
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I agree with Malcat that this is an emotional problem, not an organizational one. You're using all this paper as a crutch to fulfill some emotional need, and identifying that need will help you overcome this. Some options (just spitballing here):
- you have some fear of authority figures/IRS and this feels like it will keep you safe
- you worry if your life has meant something and having all this paper feels like a record of accomplishments
- once when you were a kid your parent lost some very important document and it scarred you for life
etc...
It's probably simpler and more vague than that. OP already indicated coming from a family with hoarding tendencies. The general sense of anxiety to let things go would have been present and normal in their childhood.
If it's only presenting as a fear of letting go of "official" documents, then that's pretty good, and probably won't take a ton of work to process and move past.
I definitely have an irrational fear of getting audited by the IRS. I need to check to see if my parents got audited when I was a child since I don't know where that comes from. I purposely avoided some deductions to keep myself "safe". If I were audited now, I joke that the IRS would end up owing me money for all of the deductions I never took.
My parents were not hoarders...in fact they were neat freaks and I don't remember them having more than a couple of file drawers. Probably their reaction to grandma being such a hoarder.
My siblings have too much stuff but aren't hoarders. And I don't think they have my "important paper" issue. I should probably do some digging to see if there was some childhood trauma relating to paper that has scarred me.
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If DH outlives me, the boxes will be gone the day after I die.
I assume extended family would just toss, but that's a good point...no need for that burden to be placed on anybody I love. I don't need them cursing me after I'm gone.
I can see how a fire (that only took out my boxes) could be liberating, but I could never light the match. Did you have an actual fire, Mr. Green?
If you close a credit card or bank account, can you still get online access to your past statements? That would give me some peace of mind.
And if you DID have a major insurance claim and no longer had receipts or statements does the insurance company accept estimates for the value of your treasures?
And how long does the IRS look back? I've read 3 years, 5 years, 6 or 7 years, and longer if they suspect shenanigans.
That doesn't feel definitive enough to start tossing returns and receipts since I have rentals and self employment income and dividends and capital gains income - our taxes are more complicated than average...might they need more years of returns if they decided to dig in?
I know this project will feel good when it's over. I love tossing/donating things that I no longer need. I hate clutter. But the scope and mental burden of this is overwhelming. I really appreciate the advice of everyone here. A bunch of strangers confirming that this behaviour of mine is unhealthy and unnecessary is definitely helping to make the paper seem less important.
Why do you need access to old statements from closed accounts?
What purpose does that serve?
Your insurance company likely doesn't care about your receipts. They have a number they're willing to pay, and your receipts aren't likely to make a difference.
I scan all of my tax documents because I send them digitally to my accountant anyway. I keep the paper copies for 7 years, but I diligently shred them after that.
Tackle this one category at a time. Perhaps tackle the taxes first, because those are the documents you should be keeping. Organize what you need to keep, and get rid of the rest. That should help you get comfortable with actually disposing of the unneeded documents. If you struggle with disposing of documents you truly do not need, then engage in some mental health work, because being unable to follow through on a rational task that you *want* to be able to do is a mental health issue, not just a quirk.
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I agree this isn't just about the paper. My moments of extreme anxiety when I can't immediately put my hands on some "important" paper are not rational and I need to get over it and make some progress.
I think it will be easiest for me to recycle/shred old paper first...from boxes I haven't opened in over a decade. I've committed myself to getting rid of at least 10 pounds of paper a day. It may not sound like much, but at least initially I will feel compelled to touch every piece of paper before tossing.
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I was keeping documents supporting my tax returns far longer than necessary. This is from the official IRS site:
"Keep records for 3 years from the date you filed your original return or 2 years from the date you paid the tax, whichever is later, if you file a claim for credit or refund after you file your return. Keep records for 7 years if you file a claim for a loss from worthless securities or bad debt deduction." Generally the IRS has 3 years to do an audit from the date your tax return was due (usually April 15) or from when you paid the tax. There are exceptions for extreme illegal behavior, like significantly lying about your income or the basis in something you sell.
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Our tax returns have a lot going on. The ambiguity of the IRS direction compels me to keep returns for longer in case we are one of their exceptions.
I realize I'm worrying about the <1% chance I'm going to need tax records some day. The same thing happened before FIREing. I spent A LOT of energy (and 5 extra years working) on the 1% chance that something apocalyptic might happen to derail our retirement.
Clearly I have a very low tolerance for risk. My plan is to start by purging the easy stuff (pretty sure I don't need 40 years of utility bills)...and hope that the momentum inspires me to purge more "important" docs.
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Psychological interpretation - these papers are all money related, so destroying them makes you feel like you're destroying money.
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Interesting. They are a tangible representation of money. I remember wondering on 9/11 what would happen if terrorists managed to destroy the computers of the investment companies that hold our "digital" money.
It's not like my piles of paper statements would help much in that situation...but they give me (irrational) comfort.
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Interesting. They are a tangible representation of money. I remember wondering on 9/11 what would happen if terrorists managed to destroy the computers of the investment companies that hold our "digital" money.
These companies have offsite backups. Also their servers probably weren't in the World Trade Center, just the computers used by the employees. But even if every bit of data and programming a company owned was torched in a fire, that company SHOULD be able to be back up and running within days (if not hours). This type of recovery planning is called business continuity planning or disaster recovery planning.
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In terms of things like tax records, accounting companies (at least here in the UK) usually have a set number of years back that they are legally required to keep the documents for, then further back than that gets shredded. So you could check how many years that is in your area and get rid of every accounting-related paper older than that, potentially.
The only records you might need regardless of age of document that I can think of is things like your birth certificate, marriage certificate, house ownership deed, stuff like that.
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I have some professional expertise in the payment space and can assure you that under no circumstances will your credit card statements ever come in handy.
No business is ever going to go back years and be like you know what this charge from 2017 was a mistake, it should have been $XXX.XX amount instead. The books are long closed and that's that. And if they did, the payment processors would laugh them out of the room.
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I go through binge and purge cycles with paperwork every few years. I wind up saving billing statements, bank statements, etc. for a few years then get mad that I am taking up all that space so I camp out in front of a movie with a shredder for a few days to clear out anything unneeded then start all over again. Not a great system but trying to feed the shredder for a few hours at a time is fun. :)
Realistically, there isn't much that should need to be kept around. I keep a small folder for each tax year with a hardcopy of the forms I e-filed and other forms that were provided to back them up. If there's enough insurance billing to make it deductible, see if you can just get a combined yearly statement with the needed data to save and shred the rest. The source of that info (insurance firms, banks, etc) also hang on to that data for many years (depending on the laws) so it can b accessed that way, too.
My dad used to hoard financial info. He had bundles in boxes with every billing statement he would get going back years. He wouldn't believe that the IRS didn't care that he spent $30 on a cell phone plan 5 years ago when he wasn't even trying to claim a deduction for it. They don't care we spent $50 on groceries with a credit card. No one cares. :)
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One important thing for which having old brokerage records is useful is for finding the cost basis of shares you bought in taxable accounts. As a buy-and-hold investor, I have some some shares that I bought over 25 years ago. But even for that, you don't need individual trading statements - annual statements are usually enough.
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I have the same. I was thinking annual statements should be enough.
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Our tax returns have a lot going on. The ambiguity of the IRS direction compels me to keep returns for longer in case we are one of their exceptions.
I realize I'm worrying about the <1% chance I'm going to need tax records some day. The same thing happened before FIREing. I spent A LOT of energy (and 5 extra years working) on the 1% chance that something apocalyptic might happen to derail our retirement.
Clearly I have a very low tolerance for risk. My plan is to start by purging the easy stuff (pretty sure I don't need 40 years of utility bills)...and hope that the momentum inspires me to purge more "important" docs.
Not necessarily.
You get an irrational comfort from a self soothing mechanism that you know doesn't actually provide a tangible benefit. That's very different from having a legitimately low risk tolerance.
If you retired early, you have a higher risk tolerance than most.
Chances are your risk tolerance is perfectly reasonable, but you irrationally fixate on certain fears, and soothe them with equally irrational coping mechanisms. There's also probably a feedback loop in there as well, where your attachment to the coping mechanisms, like a minor hoarding habit, pushes you to actually inflate your sense of fear in order to justify the behaviour.
Patterns and their causes are never just unidirectional, not over time.
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I also had a large quantity of paper records that were exceedingly unlikely to be useful, and I was also irrationally scared of tossing them out entirely. I scanned much of it and that made me feel comfortable discarding the paper copies. It did take some time, but I broke it up into little chunks (set aside a few minutes each day to do a folder full of paper) and eventually chipped away at it. Now I scan documents as they come in so they don't accumulate, and the stuff I do feel like I need to keep in paper form fits in a small box.
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I have a bad memory, and found I was hanging jon to boxes and boxes of old papers just because I might someday need to look up something to remember it.
I started one summer weekend going through one box of 30 year old financial documents, and just journaled what they reminded me of, adding dates and addresses.
"I worked at this locations... with these people... earned this much money."
After an hour or two of writing about the jobs I once had, it was incredibly easy to toss the old paycheck stubs, employment contracts, etc. There's a reason I don't remember the old jobs I had starting out or the apartments I rented. Incredibly boring. Not worth the space of a box in my storage closet for sure.
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I relived 2003 today. Found old divorce related paperwork and stubs from a part time job I forgot I had. I purged the vast majority of the box without any anxiety.
I don't think I have the patience for scanning. Maybe when I get down to a reasonable amount of paper I'll think about scanning.
Malcat, that definitely resonated with me. I need to dig into this further.
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I have a bad memory, and found I was hanging jon to boxes and boxes of old papers just because I might someday need to look up something to remember it.
I started one summer weekend going through one box of 30 year old financial documents, and just journaled what they reminded me of, adding dates and addresses.
"I worked at this locations... with these people... earned this much money."
After an hour or two of writing about the jobs I once had, it was incredibly easy to toss the old paycheck stubs, employment contracts, etc. There's a reason I don't remember the old jobs I had starting out or the apartments I rented. Incredibly boring. Not worth the space of a box in my storage closet for sure.
I kinda like your journaling idea...not sure why but I think I will try it. And then shred away!
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For accountability, I counted boxes of paper and file drawers. We had a total of 50 when we started this process a few days ago. Over 30 of those boxes are business related. I'm required to keep client paperwork for 5 years (but have client paperwork from 2004). So that's low hanging fruit for purging purposes (but I need to shred sensitive info...I can't just recycle it). I've eliminated 5 boxes of business paper so far. Slow progress.
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For accountability, I counted boxes of paper and file drawers. We had a total of 50 when we started this process a few days ago. Over 30 of those boxes are business related. I'm required to keep client paperwork for 5 years (but have client paperwork from 2004). So that's low hanging fruit for purging purposes (but I need to shred sensitive info...I can't just recycle it). I've eliminated 5 boxes of business paper so far. Slow progress.
Our community has periodic document shredding events, where you can take paper and they'll shred it for free. Do you have something like that in your area?
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Yes...they had it recently so I'm at least six months out from the next one. I will probably pay for shredding rather than wait since I want to get this done sooner rather than later.
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For accountability, I counted boxes of paper and file drawers. We had a total of 50 when we started this process a few days ago. Over 30 of those boxes are business related. I'm required to keep client paperwork for 5 years (but have client paperwork from 2004). So that's low hanging fruit for purging purposes (but I need to shred sensitive info...I can't just recycle it). I've eliminated 5 boxes of business paper so far. Slow progress.
That's 10% in just a couple of days (or almost 20% of the business ones). Great start!
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I suspect it will be a lot harder when I get to the newer boxes...but I appreciate the encouraging words.
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Hire a company to get rid of it for you, leave the house for the day, create a new process going forward.
I’m an ex-paper hoarder, and I just threw it out and switched to paperless living. To be fair, I’ve held on to the important stuff (mostly notebooks and past examples of work I don’t have digitized).
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I used to save a bunch of stuff (not necessarily financial papers but other things) but then I realized that the few times when I've wanted something I knew I had, I could not find it anyway. So it's literally pointless. Now I get rid of a lot of stuff.
Now, digital hoarding is a different matter. There's no physical limit that prevents you from just storing everything, and there's better searchability, but the amount of shit you can store overwhelms every attempt at organization...
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I've made it through 8 boxes so far. My goal is a box a day...or at least an hour a day.
It's been remarkably easy to purge old paper. And nice to have open shelf space. I feel lighter already.
I'm keeping 14 boxes of client paperwork (which will be shredded over the next few years as it ages out). I will keep all of my taxes for now (2 boxes). I realize this is overkill but it's the paper I'm most anxious about tossing. I will shred 10 more boxes of client paperwork. The rest of the boxes will be reduced and organized into 6 file drawers with the intention of eventually skinnying that down to 2 file drawers.
I've given myself until mid January to get to the end of phase 1 where I will have 14 boxes of client paperwork, 2 boxes of tax returns, and 6 well organized file drawers.
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I've made it through 8 boxes so far. My goal is a box a day...or at least an hour a day.
It's been remarkably easy to purge old paper. And nice to have open shelf space. I feel lighter already.
I'm keeping 14 boxes of client paperwork (which will be shredded over the next few years as it ages out). I will keep all of my taxes for now (2 boxes). I realize this is overkill but it's the paper I'm most anxious about tossing. I will shred 10 more boxes of client paperwork. The rest of the boxes will be reduced and organized into 6 file drawers with the intention of eventually skinnying that down to 2 file drawers.
I've given myself until mid January to get to the end of phase 1 where I will have 14 boxes of client paperwork, 2 boxes of tax returns, and 6 well organized file drawers.
You may also feel differently about those remaining papers when this is all done.
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I'm hoping that by starting with the low hanging fruit (maintenance statements for cars I no longer own, health insurance statements from prior to 2010, etc) I will have a lot of momentum going and be emboldened to purge newer, more relevant paper (that can probably be found online anyway.) Fingers crossed. I'd love to be one of those 2 file drawer people.
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I'm hoping that by starting with the low hanging fruit (maintenance statements for cars I no longer own, health insurance statements from prior to 2010, etc) I will have a lot of momentum going and be emboldened to purge newer, more relevant paper (that can probably be found online anyway.) Fingers crossed. I'd love to be one of those 2 file drawer people.
I have one small box.
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Wow, I'm impressed with the progress you've made so far. It sounds like taking the first step was the most difficult.
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Thanks to SimpleCycle for recommending Freedom Filer. It is way more than I need, but it has really motivated me to go through my files so it was worth it. As it turns out, I am shredding 75%. The rest is getting beautifully organized. Having had to clean out my parents' files this past spring, when their house of 60 years was sold, I know am am making my daughter's life easier by doing this.
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I don't have kids, but was talking to my sibs about not wanting to leave a paper mess for them. One joked that it wouldn't bother them...it would make a nice bonfire.
I appreciate all of the encouraging words and the constructive criticism. This thread is helping to hold me accountable. I was whining to DH that the progress felt really slow. He smiled and told me I was "exceeding expectations".
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Yes, congrats on the progress!
As an aside, I've read some powerful and moving blog posts detailing how some people die with tax returns from 40 years ago, which is really sad when you think about it.
Once I really had a system for tax documents down, organizing papers became much easier. I even pushed myself to only keep 7 years electronically. Gasp! This was a really difficult at first, but when you realize how silly it is and take the plunge, you don't regret it.
Honestly, half of the time I think people are just scared of addressing the lack of organization, which is how things add up - it gets to the point you might be afraid you did something wrong by accident. For me, I had to realize that the IRS couldn't give two craps about how accurate my filings were from a part time near minimum wage job 10 years ago. There's just no profit motive going after small fries who otherwise did their due diligence. I think the school system f*cked me up a bit, as to this day I feel bad if I don't remember what I read today in history books, like my subconscious is still afraid there's going to be a pop quiz and I'm going to be proved an idiot. Paperwork is slightly different, but I wonder if the effect is similar.
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From what I've read on the IRS web site, I should keep records on my rental properties to determine basis, depreciation, etc until three years after I no longer have that property (or the properties before that if there's a 1031 exchange involved). Assuming I'm reading that correctly, I should keep my returns from 2004 (which is when I bought my first rental that I still own). I'm planning to do a 1031 exchange on that property so I will need to keep all of those returns from 2004 until 3 years after I eventually sell the next place.
Am I reading that correctly?
If so, I can probably purge one of my 2 tax return boxes (or both boxes if I do the tedious job of scanning everything 2004 and newer.)
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That makes sense. Important tracking documents like that probably make a difference. I might have seen something about businesses wanting to keep tax documents a little bit longer, too, but I didn't need to know for myself :) Several people on these forums own investment properties, so they could weigh in on the specifics there.
For what it's worth, on the subject of tax documents, one thing I do is save electronic versions of all the appropriate forms for each year, using a naming scheme like [Year]_[Document Number]_[Relevant Info], like 2020_W2_MyCompany.pdf, and then going even farther and organizing these into folders named after the year. If you download the document while it's available online, you don't even have to bother scanning a physical copy, but note that some documents are online for less than 3 years. Then you can just back these up on something like a Google or Apple cloud account if you choose.
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When is the last time you needed to refer to an old utility bill, or cancelled check or medical receipt, etc.?
On at least 6 different occasions. I've been amazed about how I've needed to prove past addresses for different things. I'd recommend to always keep the first and last power bill from an address - you never need to know when you're trying to prove residence.
Also, always keep the cover pages and enough pages to indicate agreement and signature dates of a divorce agreement if you have children. As a child of divorced parents, I've needed THAT info ... 3 times if my memory serves correctly.
A question you might ask yourself is “What’s the worst that could happen if I get rid of something I later need?” My guess is it’s nothing too catastrophic.
While not catastrophic, being able to get access to the documents I list above (which are a trivial set of things to scan), it has reduced a LOT of headache and lost assets.
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When is the last time you needed to refer to an old utility bill, or cancelled check or medical receipt, etc.?
On at least 6 different occasions. I've been amazed about how I've needed to prove past addresses for different things. I'd recommend to always keep the first and last power bill from an address - you never need to know when you're trying to prove residence.
Also, always keep the cover pages and enough pages to indicate agreement and signature dates of a divorce agreement if you have children. As a child of divorced parents, I've needed THAT info ... 3 times if my memory serves correctly.
A question you might ask yourself is “What’s the worst that could happen if I get rid of something I later need?” My guess is it’s nothing too catastrophic.
While not catastrophic, being able to get access to the documents I list above (which are a trivial set of things to scan), it has reduced a LOT of headache and lost assets.
We’re 100% in agreement on keeping a divorce decree. I’d absolutely recommend that, along with marriage license, birth & death certificates. I’ve never needed to “prove” an old address and can’t imagine keeping any old utility bills for such purposes. I’ve moved 50+ times in my life and needing to prove an old address has never come up. Now, my ability to remember an old house # or street name when doing those out of wallet credit check questions is an entirely different matter. ;)
Edit: My husband’s first wife passed away and we, of course, have all documents on file related to her death, including her birth & death certs, their marriage license and other pertinent paperwork associated with settling her financial affairs. She’s been gone almost 20 years and we’ll keep that paperwork indefinitely.
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I only have 2 large file boxes and one drawer, so I’m pretty good paper-wise, but I can’t bring myself to throw out old tax returns. I have them from the 90’s, when I first started working. Not because I think I’ll ever need them (though I did refer to them when I got divorced), but because it’s a kind of financial memory bank. I guess I’m willing to leave them in the closet, or drag them with me.
My brother and I had to hire people to help get rid of the construction-debris-container-full quantity of files my dad left behind… It actually made it much harder to figure out all his assets - he still probably owns bits and pieces of things we don’t know about.
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Quick update. I was slowed down by a week of continuing education zoom classes and then a week of goofing off for the holidays.
I still have 10 boxes of personal paper to go through, but I have recycled ALL of the business paper that didn't need to be shredded.
There are 17 boxes of business related paper pulled aside for the next community shred events (to save hundreds of dollars in shredding fees). That will leave 7 client paperwork boxes that will be shredded as they "age out".
Still a lot to do...but it's getting easier to part with.
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yay progress! (and yay that it's getting easier as you go through.) Nice work!
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Quick update. I was slowed down by a week of continuing education zoom classes and then a week of goofing off for the holidays.
I still have 10 boxes of personal paper to go through, but I have recycled ALL of the business paper that didn't need to be shredded.
There are 17 boxes of business related paper pulled aside for the next community shred events (to save hundreds of dollars in shredding fees). That will leave 7 client paperwork boxes that will be shredded as they "age out".
Still a lot to do...but it's getting easier to part with.
I have the same problem with wanting to keep all sorts of paper. I used to even scan the tags when I bought clothes. When I moved out of the country a few years back, I went on a huge scanning mission. I literally spent days in front of the scanner, scanning all my notes (and exams, and homework, and handouts) from university. At some point, I found some things I could throw away without scanning (manuals for products I don't own anymore, old bank statements). But I still compulsively scan most of the paper that enters my life. I mostly don't even both filing it anymore. I just have a folder with the date stuff was scanned. I do occasionally look for stuff in those scans too ...very occasionally.
Just wanted to say hello because I think we might be long lost siblings. :D
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"I've given myself until mid January to get to the end of phase 1...."
Well mid January didn't quite work out...but I should be done in less than a week. DH has jumped in and helped a lot. I took CrustyBadger's advice and created a couple of "history" files on the computer. I now have all my past addresses in one place...and a list of my past jobs.
It's been an interesting trip down memory lane, and I feel happy/relieved to have gotten rid of so much. DH calculated that we've tossed at least 1000 lbs of paper. I can get to the important stuff instantly, and I should able to keep it under control going forward.
Thanks for all of the advice...it has been super helpful.
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That's massive progress. Good work - and don't stop now!
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(https://media3.giphy.com/media/6PopYBwOlKS8o/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47clw98wnshhxqxk9iog8y7a3afhb3nndkg1xuhhpw&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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Posting mostly to follow. This is a weakness of mine too and I see in the OP's experience a potential future me.
For me I think some of the background factors include insecurity about the powers of my memory, family history of multiple relatives with document-heavy interests/professions (I mean, the genealogist alone...), Luddite tendencies, and being comforted by a physical record of things I've done in life.
Best of luck to the OP and maybe in sharing your story you''ll help others too.
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My memory used to be great...but not as good now. In this paper purging process, I found two statements from 1990 for two IRAs totaling $15k. I have zero recollection of what happened to those accounts. Did I roll them over into another account? Did I cash them out and pay penalties? Did they end up as unclaimed property?
I wish I had never come across those statements because I now feel compelled to solve the mystery!
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could be the hidden best reason to do all that work. Maybe you'll find an unexpected $15k!
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I'm thinking the opposite. If I'd purged the statements when I (most likely) rolled over the accounts, I wouldn't be wasting time 30 years later trying to find money that probably doesn't exist.
I also spent 2 days trying to remember living at an address that I couldn't remember at all. Then it hit me...it wasn't an apartment - it was a mailbox rental/forwarding service that we used when we lived on a boat for a few years.
Keeping paper that should have been tossed decades ago has sent me on quite a few detours during this process.
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I think I need this thread.
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I should have this first phase finished up tomorrow. I also found a place 30 minutes from my house that shreds for FREE! That will be huge for the several boxes of very old client paperwork that I need to get rid of (I was not looking forward to shredding all of that with my relatively small shredder).
We're down to 2 file drawers for me (one for business, one for investments), 1 file drawer for DH, and 2 file drawers for joint (one for household and one for our rentals).
Our files could be pared down further, but I'm super happy with our progress.
I had one file that had random junk from credit cards that I'd opened but not used in years. That got me thinking that we should check annualcreditreport.com to run our free credit report to see what accounts we currently had open. It was great because we could see which ones we needed to close, and I was able to get rid of a bunch more paper.
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Now that I've tackled the bulk of my paper problem, I've been digging deeper to purge a lot of my basement storage. I have several boxes of nostalgia (junk) that need to go...including a box of old math and physics college textbooks that I've been lugging around for decades.
What do you do with textbooks? Toss, recycle, sell, giveaway? Is there a market for these? I hate tossing books, but I can't see myself ever opening them again.
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What do you do with textbooks? Toss, recycle, sell, giveaway? Is there a market for these? I hate tossing books, but I can't see myself ever opening them again.
There isn't much of a market if they aren't still current editions. But I gave every one of my old college textbooks away on my own cleanup to homeschool kids. We offered them up through a Buy Nothing group, and they went in a flash! I was amazed how fast.
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That sounds like a better alternative than tossing or recycling...thanks!