Author Topic: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis  (Read 2812 times)

havregryn

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Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« on: January 27, 2022, 01:02:26 PM »
I'd recently gone back to work after a very long period of leave. I had a baby in December 2019 and just as my statutory maternity leave of 4 months was about to end you know what started  and we just didn't see it working out so we made the decision that I stay home on what my employer calls parental leave. It is a form of leave where I am paid about 15% of my actual salary. I get a year of that per kid and I have three so I could have theoretically stayed for one more year. But I got a sudden surge of inspiration to go back to work after most normal school and daycare routines started again so here I am. My first day back was January 15th and I am already wondering if I'd made a terrible mistake.

I have a job that is considered a privilege to have. You could probably guess that already when I said that I had spent two years at home getting paid (very little but still). It is difficult to explain the context of it to people who don't have first hand experience of it but let's just say - my employer doesn't really have the concept of turnover. It's a lifetime career and everything is designed around it. It is possible to change the posting within the organisation, of course, but generally the idea is you thank your lucky stars for passing the 2 year long selection process and live happily ever after knowing you're enjoying unprecedented job security and benefits.There is also nothing inherently terrible about my job. There are some issues that would befall any organization (namely, navigating different egos and different expectations) but there is nothing that would constitute actual abuse. It is an administrative job with limited to non-existent human contact. It is also a job that requires a high degree of specialized skill and advanced fluency in several languages. So it's a good job by any metric, the problem here is most probably not the job, it's me.

I just can't seem to land into it. I spend way too much time overthinking things and I often feel like there is no way to truly develop my competencies as the goalposts are all over the place. I tell myself I don't care, I will just go there, do my best and get paid but I don't really manage to not care as, like any human being, I want to feel like I am developing in some way. Projects I work on change all the time, expectations change all the time, I have the impression that you are mostly just expected to become more assertive and less tolerant of other opinions as a proxy for becoming more of an "expert" and not actually specialize or pursue excellence in one given area. I think I am probably not an ideal fit for this specific job but I don't really have the guts to approach the HR and ask for a transfer, also because I have no guarantees that I would end up somewhere "better". There are most definitely worse jobs out there and those are far more likely to be vacant. So I generally think that attempting to transfer out might backfire and be harder to adapt to than trying to just adapt to my current job better or taking unpaid leave and trying to figure stuff out.

I would be able to take unpaid leave and see if I can try something else, but the problem is, I've grown so discouraged and so cynical that I don't even know what I would do. I am going to be 38 this year and I feel like I wouldn't even know how to tell someone that I want to try some other career without bursting into laughter or tears.

At the same time, I feel just so profoundly disappointed in how miserable I am being through the kind of blessings that are not available to the vast, VAST majority of humanity. Not only do I have this behemoth of a job, we are financially comfortable, our kids are healthy, there is absolutely nothing wrong with any particular aspect of our lives. Except me and my constant frustration with just about everything.

I've tried all kinds of therapy over the years but I don't think anything changes. They don't tell me anything I don't know.  I feel most therapy is designed to bring someone from miserable and dysfunctional into a miserable and functional zone, it's rare that it can somehow magically remove the miserable part as well.

I think I live in a kind of deep rooted bitterness over the fact that I had an unhappy childhood and grew up into a life where I had to focus on avoiding ending up in poverty and not on discovering what makes me happy. And while I intellectually understand that I am not exactly old and that poverty is now mostly off the table, emotionally I am not able to let go of this combination of anxiety and resentment. And obsession with not letting myself end up poor or be seen as a failure.
What is also not helping is the fact that, even if I could somehow tell myself that I want to go do x or y, I am held back by the fact that my husband absolutely enjoys his job here (thus tying us to a specific location) and the fact that I have three kids (so some degree of stability is necessary and I can't go out into the world to "find" myself) . So between those limitations and my own hesitation about even being able to articulate a desire/goal/passion/anything, I am finding it really hard to do anything at all.

But I feel I am really freaking out and I can't live like this. It's been two weeks and my job has been nothing but welcoming and supportive and yet I already caught myself fantasizing about being hit by a bus on my way home.

I don't know what I'm looking for, probably some success stories of people who'd been here and managed to move on to feeling better and how. Facepunches for whining.Book recommendations, blog recommendations, stuff to help me put my experience into some kind of a broader perspective. Anything really, just having said it helps a bit.
This is by far the smartest online community I know. So thanks in advance for all advice.

Dr Kidstache

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2022, 01:19:48 PM »
Please call a suicide hotline right now. Daydreaming about getting hit by a bus is passive suicidality and needs attention right now.
I just checked your past posts and it looks like you're you in Luxembourg? There's a website and call line https://454545.lu/

Sibley

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2022, 01:24:18 PM »
Caviet: I am not a wordsmith. Hopefully one of the actual wordsmiths is going to come and use the prettier words.

If you give someone a cookie and expect them to be happy about it, but they don't like cookies and really wanted a strawberry, that doesn't mean they suck it up and be happy with a cookie. It means they graciously say thank you then go get a strawberry.

Find a new job. Yes, many people are grateful and happy to have it, but you are not many people. You are an individual and you are miserable.

Yes, your childhood may have been shit, you may have struggled with money in the past, but you can't change the past. You CAN control your attitude and how you live life now. You're stuck hanging onto old resentments, and that is not serving you well.

You're tied to that geographic location - ok, but there's other jobs in the area, there's remote work. Plenty of other people get tied to a location due to family. Look around. You have kids - so do plenty of others. These are excuses so that you don't have to face the reality of making a giant change. Change is scary. Change is hard. And it's a lot easier to stay miserable than to do the real work of building a different life.

You don't need to move thousands of miles to find yourself, you don't need to be 20 again to find out what makes you happy. You do need to acknowledge to yourself that you're afraid, and then you need to have the courage to make the changes you need anyway. And you do need to get help with your mental health, because Dr Kidstache is right, you've got some problems.

Your strawberry is out there.

havregryn

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2022, 01:24:38 PM »
Please call a suicide hotline right now. Daydreaming about getting hit by a bus is passive suicidality and needs attention right now.
I just checked your past posts and it looks like you're you in Luxembourg? There's a website and call line https://454545.lu/

Thanks for your concern. I really don't think I'm anywhere near there yet, it is more of something that is half way between a figure of speech and a philosophical exercise, I'd never consider doing anything like that to my kids (hell, I am mostly unable to even ponder leaving my job for something that is less of a firehose of cash because of the perceived benefits it can bring to my kids).

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2022, 01:41:08 PM »
The best benefit you can give your kids is a happy parent. Period. Money doesn't substitute.

Get a different job.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2022, 01:43:46 PM »
Yea, you need to FIRE. This is exactly the story told by dozens of FIRE bloggers who were either burned out by intense jobs or bored to death by dead-end jobs. Your place is where their motivation came from.

I too have a cheese job that pays me decently, has great benefits, and offers extraordinary stability. However, it is a slacker job. I'd quit to pursue higher pay and higher responsibilities, but this job enabled me to become a millionaire in my 40s while casually working a 40-hour week. They even ended my commute when the pandemic started. It's hard to jump from that into the 70-hour-week "advancement" hell that gave the last employee a heart attack. But it's also a bit dull to spend my life in the vocational equivalent of preschool.

Here are some ideas I've pursued over the last several years:

1) If job optimization is not possible, orient your energy toward lifestyle optimization. Find ways to be more frugal and increase your family's savings rate. Find ways to optimize your investments and taxes. How can you insert more exercise into your life? How can you improve your family's diet so you all live longer lives? How many opportunities can you seize to have impactful 5-minute conversations with each of your kids? Can you plan a destination family picnic from work? The stability and predictability of your job could be the asset that allows you to plow energy into the part of your life that matters.

2) Work outside your job description. Most jobs do not come with a built-in advancement plan. Thus advancement occurs when people volunteer for new activities outside their normal role. Analysts become managers by taking a leading role on a committee. Directors become executives by offering to do work for executives. Etc. What kind of work are other people doing that you'd like to try? Just ask them if you can try it. Similarly, be open to people you could mentor to backfill your job.

3) Could you blunt the dullness of work by listening to audiobooks? Maybe just in the downtimes? If you can get engaged with these, then work becomes the place you treat yourself to something you enjoy. If they teach new skills that will allow you to do new things professionally, that may be even better.

4) Play politics. Yes, we left-brained introverts* have a hard time with schmoozing, alliance-building, persuasion, and soliciting credit, but (a) these activities are actually critical to the functioning of any organization of humans, and (b) it could allow us analytical types to broaden our perspectives, increase our social intelligence, and make our task-driven lives more interesting. Maybe spend some time cultivating friendships at work. Even if you never use them to advance your career, it will be more rewarding than sitting and performing isolated tasks all day. Learning the motives and habits of your leaders is interesting in itself. *did I guess it right?

5) Get into Art/Music. Can you doodle a drawing on a piece of paper while someone bloviates on a Zoom call? Can you listen to new music at work? Maybe write a poem in OneNote?

6) Redefine your values. What's important? What must your accomplish in your brief lifetime? These answers change from year to year, and as kids grow, and as things are accomplished. If you've been unable to self-examine for a while, maybe now's the time. There is no shortage of people trying to persuade you to pick the path they think is best, and you could let them persuade you. Some of these suggestions are bunk (e.g. join my cult) and others are good ideas (e.g. help us create X so that benefit Y can be achieved). Ultimately you are accountable for having a meaning, whether you self-invent or buy someone else's meaning off the shelf. If you don't have something to FIRE for, you'll not do what's necessary to FIRE, and your life will continue to consist of meaninglessly shuffling between working and consuming. Your existential crisis is trying to tell you that your life needs this thing.

havregryn

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2022, 01:44:47 PM »
Caviet: I am not a wordsmith. Hopefully one of the actual wordsmiths is going to come and use the prettier words.

If you give someone a cookie and expect them to be happy about it, but they don't like cookies and really wanted a strawberry, that doesn't mean they suck it up and be happy with a cookie. It means they graciously say thank you then go get a strawberry.

Find a new job. Yes, many people are grateful and happy to have it, but you are not many people. You are an individual and you are miserable.

Yes, your childhood may have been shit, you may have struggled with money in the past, but you can't change the past. You CAN control your attitude and how you live life now. You're stuck hanging onto old resentments, and that is not serving you well.

You're tied to that geographic location - ok, but there's other jobs in the area, there's remote work. Plenty of other people get tied to a location due to family. Look around. You have kids - so do plenty of others. These are excuses so that you don't have to face the reality of making a giant change. Change is scary. Change is hard. And it's a lot easier to stay miserable than to do the real work of building a different life.

You don't need to move thousands of miles to find yourself, you don't need to be 20 again to find out what makes you happy. You do need to acknowledge to yourself that you're afraid, and then you need to have the courage to make the changes you need anyway. And you do need to get help with your mental health, because Dr Kidstache is right, you've got some problems.

Your strawberry is out there.

Thank you Sibley.
I like your metaphor. But my problem is, I can't even begin to imagine that strawberry. To me it seems like my choice is roughly between just doing what I've been doing or watching Netflix at home waiting for some insight that will never come. And then I start thinking how in that latter scenario I will just be robbing my kids of opportunities that would come from me actually sucking it up and doing my utopian job.
Oh I can definitely see my mental health has gone to hell but it's a vicious circle, I am nowhere near the position where it is viable to go out and explore alternative careers, especially for someone who is almost 40 (because I think it would take some enthousiasm to actually get myself into something, there is a lot less randomness when it comes to career options for people in my stage of life, or at least that's how I perceive it). I literally wouldn't know how to articulate a single coherent thought about what it is that I might enjoy doing, so I don't really see how to even approach this.

former player

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2022, 01:52:17 PM »
I spent a couple of years on secondment to one of the organisations adjacent to yours (in the other place, though, not Luxembourg).  You are exactly right about the competition to get in and the status and benefits that come with getting in.  You are also right about the impossibility of changing the organisation or the way it works.  Sorry.

If you are someone who gets emotionally involved in work then it is useless to tell you not to be.  As you can't change the big things, find the little things that you can change.  It might be as small as getting pleasure from a pot plant in the office or buying a picture for the wall.  It might be finding a new person to have coffee with each week until you find that you've had coffee with someone who will turn into a new friend.  It might be pride in having the best documentation in the section.  Rather than looking at the big picture that you can't change try looking for a small thing you can change.

One thing you shouldn't do is stay in the job because of the perceived benefits to your kids.  Your kids are not at risk of having a disfunctional or disadvantaged childhood because you have given up on being a fonctionnaire.

Apart from that, if I remember rightly there was some idea of a move to Sweden at some point?  It seems your husband's dedication to his career has kyboshed that.  Have you discussed with him whether there is an end date to his need to be in Luxembourg, whether his career could take him somewhere else or could end in early retirement?  Also I think there was a question of potentially moving to a different property with more space, albeit at some economic cost (some things are worth throwing money at, in my opinion).

I do understand that the limitations of one's childhood stay with one, particularly those relating to poverty.  You are allowed to have regrets that things might have been different, and turned out differently, if those limitations hadn't been there.   Something that helped me on that was to build in my mind a likeness of myself at a point in childhood that was a difficulty and say to that likeness "I see you, I love you".  Sounds weird, but it did have a remarkably freeing effect.

Best of luck.

Sibley

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2022, 02:03:47 PM »
Caviet: I am not a wordsmith. Hopefully one of the actual wordsmiths is going to come and use the prettier words.

If you give someone a cookie and expect them to be happy about it, but they don't like cookies and really wanted a strawberry, that doesn't mean they suck it up and be happy with a cookie. It means they graciously say thank you then go get a strawberry.

Find a new job. Yes, many people are grateful and happy to have it, but you are not many people. You are an individual and you are miserable.

Yes, your childhood may have been shit, you may have struggled with money in the past, but you can't change the past. You CAN control your attitude and how you live life now. You're stuck hanging onto old resentments, and that is not serving you well.

You're tied to that geographic location - ok, but there's other jobs in the area, there's remote work. Plenty of other people get tied to a location due to family. Look around. You have kids - so do plenty of others. These are excuses so that you don't have to face the reality of making a giant change. Change is scary. Change is hard. And it's a lot easier to stay miserable than to do the real work of building a different life.

You don't need to move thousands of miles to find yourself, you don't need to be 20 again to find out what makes you happy. You do need to acknowledge to yourself that you're afraid, and then you need to have the courage to make the changes you need anyway. And you do need to get help with your mental health, because Dr Kidstache is right, you've got some problems.

Your strawberry is out there.

Thank you Sibley.
I like your metaphor. But my problem is, I can't even begin to imagine that strawberry. To me it seems like my choice is roughly between just doing what I've been doing or watching Netflix at home waiting for some insight that will never come. And then I start thinking how in that latter scenario I will just be robbing my kids of opportunities that would come from me actually sucking it up and doing my utopian job.
Oh I can definitely see my mental health has gone to hell but it's a vicious circle, I am nowhere near the position where it is viable to go out and explore alternative careers, especially for someone who is almost 40 (because I think it would take some enthousiasm to actually get myself into something, there is a lot less randomness when it comes to career options for people in my stage of life, or at least that's how I perceive it). I literally wouldn't know how to articulate a single coherent thought about what it is that I might enjoy doing, so I don't really see how to even approach this.

Julia Child wrote her first cookbook at 50. Your age is another excuse, nothing more.

Turn off Netflix. Think of something, anything to do that is outside your norm. FORCE yourself to do it. Go take a pottery class. The goal isn't to be "this is what I want to do", the goal is to break out of the rut you're in. Once you've broken out of the rut, then you can start to make progress.

Your kids also another excuse. You don't need to be wildly wealthy to have a healthy, happy childhood.

havregryn

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2022, 02:16:17 PM »
I spent a couple of years on secondment to one of the organisations adjacent to yours (in the other place, though, not Luxembourg).  You are exactly right about the competition to get in and the status and benefits that come with getting in.  You are also right about the impossibility of changing the organisation or the way it works.  Sorry.

If you are someone who gets emotionally involved in work then it is useless to tell you not to be.  As you can't change the big things, find the little things that you can change.  It might be as small as getting pleasure from a pot plant in the office or buying a picture for the wall.  It might be finding a new person to have coffee with each week until you find that you've had coffee with someone who will turn into a new friend.  It might be pride in having the best documentation in the section.  Rather than looking at the big picture that you can't change try looking for a small thing you can change.

One thing you shouldn't do is stay in the job because of the perceived benefits to your kids.  Your kids are not at risk of having a disfunctional or disadvantaged childhood because you have given up on being a fonctionnaire.

Apart from that, if I remember rightly there was some idea of a move to Sweden at some point?  It seems your husband's dedication to his career has kyboshed that.  Have you discussed with him whether there is an end date to his need to be in Luxembourg, whether his career could take him somewhere else or could end in early retirement?  Also I think there was a question of potentially moving to a different property with more space, albeit at some economic cost (some things are worth throwing money at, in my opinion).

I do understand that the limitations of one's childhood stay with one, particularly those relating to poverty.  You are allowed to have regrets that things might have been different, and turned out differently, if those limitations hadn't been there.   Something that helped me on that was to build in my mind a likeness of myself at a point in childhood that was a difficulty and say to that likeness "I see you, I love you".  Sounds weird, but it did have a remarkably freeing effect.

Best of luck.

Yeah, our plan to move to Sweden was killed by several things. First, my husband and his career, yes, he can see himself making partner and he has zero desire to move back. Second, his family has gone batshit nuts during covid. It's a  major buzzkill to our idea of "wanting to be close to family".
Third, our oldest kid, no way would he ever adapt to changing schools at this point, it's a terrible idea. He might even need to be homeschooled and while that is legal in Luxembourg, it's borderline unthinkable in Sweden.
Fourth, spending two whole summers there really made me see that I have an overly idealized idea of what our life would look like there.  It's a big city, and living somewhere where you can truly just walk everywhere costs just as much as living here.

On the topic of moving somewhere else locally, that's also mostly shelved for now. Ironically (like, really, lol, you'd think lockdowns would've made it worse, wouldn't you), post-covid changes actually made our life here BETTER and EASIER. First, being home a lot made us rethink the way we designed and furnished the place so we changed some things to achieve way more overall efficiency. Second, we are now home a lot but that also gives us time to keep it tidy. So it would appear that the biggest problem we had before was this constant feeling of living buried in crap which disappeared once we built some custom storage and became able to actually keep up with the mess production of our kids. Once we got crap out of the way, it no longer feels so cramped, as we generally enjoy being with our kids. Also our oldest is now old enough to go outside on his own (provided he stays on the property, our building is surrounded by a large private green property). That ironically provides more value than most single family houses would around here, as most of them (especially those that don't cost in the multiple millions) would have a far smaller and less private yard. Between that and local prices, we are mostly in agreement that we will stay here until our oldest is 12 or so, at which point we will want to provide him with his own room.

We were not really able to move anywhere while I was at home because without my salary we would not have qualified for a mortgage for something genuinely better than this, but by now we are really in no rush....as I think we could, as kids become older, consider moving across the border and avoid having to spend a bajillion on a house. But we can't pick a place just yet so it's better to stay put.

mspym

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2022, 04:15:11 PM »
Passive suicidal ideation (which is what is happening) is a real red flag that your life is really not working for you and something needs to change. Where you are is the difficult - easy quadrant (it's hard but familiar) and our risk-averse brains are very very good at talking us into staying in situations that are bad for us. It may also be burn-out or depression that is telling you that there is no point in making changes or that therapy is useless for you.

@ChpBstrd offers some really actionable options for you to try. Some of them might work for you, some won't, the key thing is to start taking action instead of pre-judging all the options. Once you start moving, momentum will help you keep going and you are more likely to find something better.

SquarePeg

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2022, 06:25:55 PM »
...
Turn off Netflix. Think of something, anything to do that is outside your norm. FORCE yourself to do it. Go take a pottery class. The goal isn't to be "this is what I want to do", the goal is to break out of the rut you're in. Once you've broken out of the rut, then you can start to make progress.
...

On this note, I just came across this article and bookmarked it because I could also use some help along these lines. Hope somebody gets some value out of it.
https://rightasrain.uwmedicine.org/well/health/try-something-new
Quote

Want to Break Out of the Blues? Try Something New
  • New experiences are good for our emotional health.
  • Trying new things gives us a hit of dopamine (feel good chemical) and makes us feel rewarded.
  • Fear is often the biggest barrier to doing something new.
  • To get around this, start small, make a plan and prioritize fun.

lhamo

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2022, 07:52:50 PM »
When I was in a particularly awful stage at work one thing I started to do that sounds cheesy but actually helped quite a lot was to ask myself at the end of the day “who did I help today?” It helped me see that even the boring tedious parts of the job actually made a contribution. In the end I still wanted to leave and was able to create a path to doing so. But knowing I was helping others in the meantime helped make it feel like less of a slog.

gooki

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2022, 08:32:07 PM »
And another idea to add to the list, take long lunches and do do some exercise. Long as walks, go swimming, join a gym etc. Improving you physical health can have a dramatic impact on you mental health.

We our second child was born, I used to do 2 x 45 minute walks during my work day. Really helped with my indecision.


havregryn

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2022, 09:42:47 AM »
Yea, you need to FIRE. This is exactly the story told by dozens of FIRE bloggers who were either burned out by intense jobs or bored to death by dead-end jobs. Your place is where their motivation came from.

I too have a cheese job that pays me decently, has great benefits, and offers extraordinary stability. However, it is a slacker job. I'd quit to pursue higher pay and higher responsibilities, but this job enabled me to become a millionaire in my 40s while casually working a 40-hour week. They even ended my commute when the pandemic started. It's hard to jump from that into the 70-hour-week "advancement" hell that gave the last employee a heart attack. But it's also a bit dull to spend my life in the vocational equivalent of preschool.

Here are some ideas I've pursued over the last several years:

1) If job optimization is not possible, orient your energy toward lifestyle optimization. Find ways to be more frugal and increase your family's savings rate. Find ways to optimize your investments and taxes. How can you insert more exercise into your life? How can you improve your family's diet so you all live longer lives? How many opportunities can you seize to have impactful 5-minute conversations with each of your kids? Can you plan a destination family picnic from work? The stability and predictability of your job could be the asset that allows you to plow energy into the part of your life that matters.

2) Work outside your job description. Most jobs do not come with a built-in advancement plan. Thus advancement occurs when people volunteer for new activities outside their normal role. Analysts become managers by taking a leading role on a committee. Directors become executives by offering to do work for executives. Etc. What kind of work are other people doing that you'd like to try? Just ask them if you can try it. Similarly, be open to people you could mentor to backfill your job.

3) Could you blunt the dullness of work by listening to audiobooks? Maybe just in the downtimes? If you can get engaged with these, then work becomes the place you treat yourself to something you enjoy. If they teach new skills that will allow you to do new things professionally, that may be even better.

4) Play politics. Yes, we left-brained introverts* have a hard time with schmoozing, alliance-building, persuasion, and soliciting credit, but (a) these activities are actually critical to the functioning of any organization of humans, and (b) it could allow us analytical types to broaden our perspectives, increase our social intelligence, and make our task-driven lives more interesting. Maybe spend some time cultivating friendships at work. Even if you never use them to advance your career, it will be more rewarding than sitting and performing isolated tasks all day. Learning the motives and habits of your leaders is interesting in itself. *did I guess it right?

5) Get into Art/Music. Can you doodle a drawing on a piece of paper while someone bloviates on a Zoom call? Can you listen to new music at work? Maybe write a poem in OneNote?

6) Redefine your values. What's important? What must your accomplish in your brief lifetime? These answers change from year to year, and as kids grow, and as things are accomplished. If you've been unable to self-examine for a while, maybe now's the time. There is no shortage of people trying to persuade you to pick the path they think is best, and you could let them persuade you. Some of these suggestions are bunk (e.g. join my cult) and others are good ideas (e.g. help us create X so that benefit Y can be achieved). Ultimately you are accountable for having a meaning, whether you self-invent or buy someone else's meaning off the shelf. If you don't have something to FIRE for, you'll not do what's necessary to FIRE, and your life will continue to consist of meaninglessly shuffling between working and consuming. Your existential crisis is trying to tell you that your life needs this thing.

Thanks a lot, these are many concrete things.
Still, I feel like I'd tried most of them at some point and always somehow failed, returning to my usual misery.
I feel I am constantly living in the following loop:
1. Feel vaguely miserable about everything
2. Start feeling a massive amount of self-loathing over feeling so vaguely miserable in what is a very privileged situation
3. Start seeing actual consequences of the fact 90% of my mental capacities is dedicated to this spiral of misery - become tired, underperform, snap at kids, eat too much, sleep too much, sleep to little, whatever
4. Come back to 1 with even more intensity, which leads to an even more extreme episode of 2, leading to more of 3 and so it goes on.

It's like it takes a massive amount of effort to do anything constructive, but it takes very, very little for everything to go into a downward spiral that becomes harder and harder to break out of.

I mean, I am fully aware how ridiculous some of my excuses for not being able to do anything are, but the truth is, my brain always finds a way to ground itself in them and refuse to budge. A therapist I talked to pointed that out, he said that I use an impressive amount of mental gymnastics to make sure I stay miserable and I agree, but I don't see how I could just magically snap out of it. To me, or at least the emotional part of my brain that somehow always manages to sabotage the rational part, these things make some kind of perfect sense.

I blame my childhood for a lot of this because I grew up in a family that was emotionally and financially abusive and I think this attacks from two sides. One is that I was always led to believe that my own happiness was both unachievable and irrelevant. My parents never seemed to see me as a person but rather a prop in their own story, a provider of free labor of sorts. I grew up in a rural area in Eastern Europe and that's how it tends to be there. But at the same time, those same parents were fairly educated people who were quite hung up on their own quest for happiness and the conviction they deserved it, and a lot of the toxic atmosphere I grew up in was coming from their utter selfishness and sole focus on doing what they wanted to do at a given point in time, with constant accusations that my very existence was a hinder in this pursuit. I am pretty sure that this is what ultimately led me to the place where I can't really articulate what could possibly make me feel better than I do now but also make the prospect of even trying rather terrifying, as I can't be entirely certain that I wouldn't suddenly find myself at odds with the interests of my children.

 Rationally I am fully aware that I am far far from the immature, trashy self-indulgence of my father, but somewhere deep inside I feel less sure. I know how ridiculous it is that I would subject myself to 20 years of unhappiness because my employer will very generously pay for the university education of my kids (especially as I live in Europe, that is not something that is otherwise unattainable by any means)  but to me, in my anxiety, this makes some kind of perfect effin sense.

But also, I really don't think the job is at fault here. Sure, it's not a perfect job, but as far as jobs go, mine is really kinda fine. And it's not like I have a clear idea that there is something else I would rather be doing.  I think above all I need an attitude adjustment but for some reason, no matter how much effort I put into it, I can be triggered by something completely menial and instantly spiral into my misery loop.

What kind of medication should I even bring up with a psychiatrist? I remember discussing the possibility of trying some medication with my psychiatrist (I do have a psychiatrist, I'm not naive, I am fully aware that this is insane and my health insurance is in line with all my other spectacular benefits, if there's treatment available in Europe, I can have it) but then I got pregnant and I wasn't feeling *that* bad so we decided against it. Now I am still breastfeeding but I could also stop, the boob sucker is over 2.



Louisville

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2022, 10:20:16 AM »
I am a bit late to this thread, but I must chime in.

GET PSYCHIARTRIC HELP NOW! If you are already in treatment, great, keep it up. It may take time to find something that works for you.


SunnyDays

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2022, 10:24:17 AM »
Former psychologist here.  Yes, you need medication.  Absolutely.  Everything you describe are symptoms of depression - inability to think logically enough to get yourself out of the "loop," lack of motivation, lack of enjoyment, fantasizing about being hit by a bus.  Your childhood was emotionally difficult and set you up for this - you've likely been dysthymic (low-level depressed) all your life, but it seems normal to you so you didn't notice until things got really bad.

SSRI meds are usually the first line of attack (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Cipralex etc).  There are also SNRIs like Effexor.  I'm surprised your psychiatrist hasn't recommended something by now.  They should know which med best suits your particular symptoms, but it's often trial and error, so don't be discouraged if the first 1, or 2 or 3, don't work for you - just keep trying them.  One of them will work and then you'll be in a better place for the therapy to have an effect.  Maybe take some time off work while you do this.  In the meantime, do all of things mentioned in other posts to add pleasure/novelty to your life, because the body and brain each feed back to the other.

I also recommend the workbook Mind Over Mood.  It has a CBT approach that might help you with the mental aspects you're struggling with.  But you have to actually do the exercises, not just read it.  Incorporate it into your life.

Life can get better.  You can do this.

Tester

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2022, 01:06:22 PM »
As others said, get specialized help.

I will only be able to chime on the "I can't do what I want because x " part.
My "advice" is not structured, it is just composed of some thoughts in no particular order...

I am kind of frustrated that I am not hiking/traveling/able to dunk a basketball anymore, because of X.
It took me some time and tries to realize that I am the only one preventing me to do "anything".
The book "Seven habits of highly effective people" and some discussions with a mentor at work made me realize that.
Do not get blocked about "I can't do this because of some external factor", look into what YOU can do to make things happen.

And although I am not hiking yet and not dunking a basketball anymore, I started by just going and playing basketball again.
This slowly led me to also just attack the work systematically and constantly deliver some things, opposed to before when I was dreading work and only doing things in the last minute.

One year after finally feeling I am on the "getting better" slope for some medical condition I decided to exercise - I just bought a bike and rode it to work and back, got to ride 2200 km that year...
It only took 30 minutes each way, the same as with the bus, so I was not loosing time, plus I was finally getting to exercise...

You don't need to have enough time to be the best in the world at whatever you like, find time to just start it.
It is ok to not have "enough" time, just get "some" time.

Get 5 minutes EVERY day to just not think about anything.

I hope this helps.



« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 01:10:19 PM by Tester »

ChpBstrd

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2022, 01:15:19 PM »
Yea, you need to FIRE. This is exactly the story told by dozens of FIRE bloggers who were either burned out by intense jobs or bored to death by dead-end jobs. Your place is where their motivation came from.

I too have a cheese job that pays me decently, has great benefits, and offers extraordinary stability. However, it is a slacker job. I'd quit to pursue higher pay and higher responsibilities, but this job enabled me to become a millionaire in my 40s while casually working a 40-hour week. They even ended my commute when the pandemic started. It's hard to jump from that into the 70-hour-week "advancement" hell that gave the last employee a heart attack. But it's also a bit dull to spend my life in the vocational equivalent of preschool.

Here are some ideas I've pursued over the last several years:

1) If job optimization is not possible, orient your energy toward lifestyle optimization. Find ways to be more frugal and increase your family's savings rate. Find ways to optimize your investments and taxes. How can you insert more exercise into your life? How can you improve your family's diet so you all live longer lives? How many opportunities can you seize to have impactful 5-minute conversations with each of your kids? Can you plan a destination family picnic from work? The stability and predictability of your job could be the asset that allows you to plow energy into the part of your life that matters.

2) Work outside your job description. Most jobs do not come with a built-in advancement plan. Thus advancement occurs when people volunteer for new activities outside their normal role. Analysts become managers by taking a leading role on a committee. Directors become executives by offering to do work for executives. Etc. What kind of work are other people doing that you'd like to try? Just ask them if you can try it. Similarly, be open to people you could mentor to backfill your job.

3) Could you blunt the dullness of work by listening to audiobooks? Maybe just in the downtimes? If you can get engaged with these, then work becomes the place you treat yourself to something you enjoy. If they teach new skills that will allow you to do new things professionally, that may be even better.

4) Play politics. Yes, we left-brained introverts* have a hard time with schmoozing, alliance-building, persuasion, and soliciting credit, but (a) these activities are actually critical to the functioning of any organization of humans, and (b) it could allow us analytical types to broaden our perspectives, increase our social intelligence, and make our task-driven lives more interesting. Maybe spend some time cultivating friendships at work. Even if you never use them to advance your career, it will be more rewarding than sitting and performing isolated tasks all day. Learning the motives and habits of your leaders is interesting in itself. *did I guess it right?

5) Get into Art/Music. Can you doodle a drawing on a piece of paper while someone bloviates on a Zoom call? Can you listen to new music at work? Maybe write a poem in OneNote?

6) Redefine your values. What's important? What must your accomplish in your brief lifetime? These answers change from year to year, and as kids grow, and as things are accomplished. If you've been unable to self-examine for a while, maybe now's the time. There is no shortage of people trying to persuade you to pick the path they think is best, and you could let them persuade you. Some of these suggestions are bunk (e.g. join my cult) and others are good ideas (e.g. help us create X so that benefit Y can be achieved). Ultimately you are accountable for having a meaning, whether you self-invent or buy someone else's meaning off the shelf. If you don't have something to FIRE for, you'll not do what's necessary to FIRE, and your life will continue to consist of meaninglessly shuffling between working and consuming. Your existential crisis is trying to tell you that your life needs this thing.

Thanks a lot, these are many concrete things.
Still, I feel like I'd tried most of them at some point and always somehow failed, returning to my usual misery.
I feel I am constantly living in the following loop:
1. Feel vaguely miserable about everything
2. Start feeling a massive amount of self-loathing over feeling so vaguely miserable in what is a very privileged situation
3. Start seeing actual consequences of the fact 90% of my mental capacities is dedicated to this spiral of misery - become tired, underperform, snap at kids, eat too much, sleep too much, sleep to little, whatever
4. Come back to 1 with even more intensity, which leads to an even more extreme episode of 2, leading to more of 3 and so it goes on.

It's like it takes a massive amount of effort to do anything constructive, but it takes very, very little for everything to go into a downward spiral that becomes harder and harder to break out of.

I mean, I am fully aware how ridiculous some of my excuses for not being able to do anything are, but the truth is, my brain always finds a way to ground itself in them and refuse to budge. A therapist I talked to pointed that out, he said that I use an impressive amount of mental gymnastics to make sure I stay miserable and I agree, but I don't see how I could just magically snap out of it. To me, or at least the emotional part of my brain that somehow always manages to sabotage the rational part, these things make some kind of perfect sense.

I blame my childhood for a lot of this because I grew up in a family that was emotionally and financially abusive and I think this attacks from two sides. One is that I was always led to believe that my own happiness was both unachievable and irrelevant. My parents never seemed to see me as a person but rather a prop in their own story, a provider of free labor of sorts. I grew up in a rural area in Eastern Europe and that's how it tends to be there. But at the same time, those same parents were fairly educated people who were quite hung up on their own quest for happiness and the conviction they deserved it, and a lot of the toxic atmosphere I grew up in was coming from their utter selfishness and sole focus on doing what they wanted to do at a given point in time, with constant accusations that my very existence was a hinder in this pursuit. I am pretty sure that this is what ultimately led me to the place where I can't really articulate what could possibly make me feel better than I do now but also make the prospect of even trying rather terrifying, as I can't be entirely certain that I wouldn't suddenly find myself at odds with the interests of my children.

 Rationally I am fully aware that I am far far from the immature, trashy self-indulgence of my father, but somewhere deep inside I feel less sure. I know how ridiculous it is that I would subject myself to 20 years of unhappiness because my employer will very generously pay for the university education of my kids (especially as I live in Europe, that is not something that is otherwise unattainable by any means)  but to me, in my anxiety, this makes some kind of perfect effin sense.

But also, I really don't think the job is at fault here. Sure, it's not a perfect job, but as far as jobs go, mine is really kinda fine. And it's not like I have a clear idea that there is something else I would rather be doing.  I think above all I need an attitude adjustment but for some reason, no matter how much effort I put into it, I can be triggered by something completely menial and instantly spiral into my misery loop.

What kind of medication should I even bring up with a psychiatrist? I remember discussing the possibility of trying some medication with my psychiatrist (I do have a psychiatrist, I'm not naive, I am fully aware that this is insane and my health insurance is in line with all my other spectacular benefits, if there's treatment available in Europe, I can have it) but then I got pregnant and I wasn't feeling *that* bad so we decided against it. Now I am still breastfeeding but I could also stop, the boob sucker is over 2.

I know I suggested some ideas to make life better, but upon further reading I agree with the others who said you need aggressive treatment for depression, not the life hacks I described earlier. It's not "ridiculous", it's a problem with neurotransmitters. The bad news is that depression is a potentially deadly disease, and should be treated with greater urgency than cancer. Go to an emergency room if it gets severe enough, and accept inpatient treatment if it is recommended. Do not try to be tough and wait it out. Do not buy into any cultural stigma that keeps you away from treatment, because cultural stigmas kill thousands of people every day.

The good news is that you live in an era when depression is successfully treated every day, with well-established medications and therapeutic methods. The path to recovery is clear if you can get on it.

As @SunnyDays points out, your psychiatrist should have prescribed something by now, if you are telling them the same things you are telling us. I'm not sure how it works in your location, but if you feel you are not being listened to, change doctors.   

lhamo

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2022, 01:57:22 PM »
Not sure how easy they are to find in Europe, but given that you recognize  how your    current issues are linked to childhood trauma/neglect I would highly recommend you seek out a trauma-informed therapist.  Straight "mind over matter" CBT approaches can be very detrimental for those with a history of parental guilting like yours.   You realize yourself that this is not something you can just think your way out of.   I suffered for YEARS trying to CBT my way out of my traumatic baggage and it just didn't work, only made things worse in fact.

Internal Family Systems is another approach you might find helpful. Tim Feriss had an interview with the founder where they show a little bit of how it works:

https://tim.blog/2021/01/14/richard-schwartz-internal-family-systems/


Sibley

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2022, 08:05:27 PM »
I really wish there was an easy test that you could take for depression or other mental illnesses. We can do a covid test, or a flu test, or a strep test, but we can't test to figure out for sure who has screwed up brain chemistry.

I agree, this sounds like you have an underlying mental illness that is making everything much more complicated. Get screened, get treated, then go back to the talk therapy to work on untangling the rest.

kei te pai

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2022, 12:47:39 AM »
I agree with others, medication should be sought for immediate situation. I would also add that post partum / hormonal changes can cause significant distress, and although you can identify childhood experiences as affecting you now, there may also be some physical causes.
Have you had a careful assessment, including bloods by your GP?
How are your eating patterns? Exercise?

Frankies Girl

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2022, 01:14:58 AM »
I am not a mental heath professional, but I've experienced long term depression and trauma and have just recently come to grips with the idea (without minimizing) my childhood was filled with abuse and trauma, and I went through things recently that would cripple most people.

I say this with all my heart: please get into counseling and try meds. Try both until you find the right therapist and the right meds. I can't stress this enough.

I spent about a decade in deep, dark depression mostly with bouts of "oh you're just feeling sorry for yourself" type of self-loathing. I had the suicidal idealization. I railed against and resisted therapy/medication for about the same length of time due to the idea that all that would do is make me accept the shitty hand life had dealt me, and what on earth would that accomplish? Nothing would be better, just... hey, your life is shit, your hopes and dreams and plans are impossible, so I chose to stay depressed and clung to the sadness/bitterness as it slowly poisoned everything.

I finally got help. I had a few folks here that were a life line. I got on meds that worked for me. I found a therapist and started working on myself. It was not instant. I had a ton of work to do. I had to recognize that there were other things out there, other paths, reframe my dreams, let go of some of them and find new ones. But meds and a great therapist literally saved my life.

I am so sad looking back now at the years I was so sure nothing would help, trapping myself in that despair and depression. All because I listened to the lies that depression tells you - that you already know what is "wrong" and what's the point of trying to fix things that can't be fixed? But they CAN be, I promise you.

Sometimes one of the hardest things we can do is recognizing that we aren't strong enough to do this stuff on our own, and ask for help. Please seek it out. We are all rooting for you and care about you and I hope you can find the help you need to start feeling better.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2022, 02:02:29 AM »
How was your mental health before you went back to work? Would it be possible to get some more time off work based on your mental health situation, which could allow you some time and energy to focus on yourself and getting better? Staying at home with kids is mostly about them, and you sound like you need time for yourself in the midst of a pretty hectic family life.

havregryn

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2022, 02:32:35 AM »
I think the main reason that I didn't get to medication yet is that I spent most of the past decade breastfeeding and pregnant or trying to become pregnant.

You also must take into consideration that it is one thing to spew out a sheet of text but my real life presentation is not as unequivocally bad. I mean, I'm miserable most of the time, but my kids are well cared for, my job is what it is, our finances are in order, I am miserable over my weight gain and comfort eat all the time but I never managed to make it into obese BMI, because no matter my much I eat I can still obviously stop well before this turns into a medical issue and a bunch of little things like that, for which I don't blame the doctor that he didn't think it would necessarily make sense to start a medication regimen on a pregnant woman. I guess now we could move on to that, as I really don't expect to have any more kids. I had 3 because we always wanted three and were especially motivated by my rather strong desire to have a girl (our first two are boys). Our third is a girl so we're done, lol.And yeah, now that I am reminded of it, actually every time I had a baby I had an almost paradoxical reaction of a kind of postpartum euphoria. The first few months after having a baby are actually the best I ever felt and it happened all three times. I am actually vaguely convinced that "a cure" for my condition is discovering which exact hormonal change of postpartum alters my mood completely and replicate it artificially.

Essentially I can get as much time off work as I'd like. I can be home for 6 months on medical grounds before triggering a medical investigation, but even then that is not a problem if the medical investigation discovers there is in fact something wrong with me. Alternatively I can go back on parental leave. Calling it parental leave doesn't mean I have to keep my kids home, they can remain in their current forms of care. It's just that I have a year left of that and it's better than unpaid leave proper. I also have access to about 12 years total of unpaid leave. Parental leave is paid with a moderate stipend, like, really moderate, for all intents or purposes the only true difference between parental leave and unpaid leave is that during parental leave I keep acquiring pension rights and my health insurance is maintained. If I take unpaid leave, they take me off these things. Health insurance is no issue as I can immediately become a dependent on my husband's plan (it would be slightly more restrictive than the one I have for myself but really, in this part of the world this is completely irrelevant, they all provide absolute coverage for everything, the biggest difference is probably the accident insurance, if I suffer an accidental death while in service my husband never has to think about money again...) , pension rights are maybe more of an issue to miss out on, but I am on MMM, we can all rest assured that I will not starve to death in old age.

So it's not a problem as such to take time away from my job, but I am very seriously lacking any kind of an alternative plan. My alternative plan right now does seem to be watching Netflix so...I am skeptical. It might be fun for a few weeks and then the true existential horror will set in, one that will make this seem like a walk in the park.


Because I think now I am possibly just slightly reacting to the fact I am a little bit more tired than before. It's literally been 2.5 years since I woke up with an alarm clock. And now on my office days I get up at 6:30 in order to put the kids on the school bus at 7:22. It makes me a bit more tired and off my brain goes into its vicious loop.




BikeFanatic

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2022, 03:08:22 AM »
Effexor and the like helped my mother go from constantly in and out of depression to a pretty good life with just bouts of depression. You are obviously depressed and can not think your way out of it. Why don’t you wean the baby and start a med give it a try?

To me you sound very depressed andfor your own sake and the  kids sake get some help please. The passive suicidal thoughts are typical of clinical depression, meaning you project death as a way out but really don’t have a plan just desperate for relief. IMO FI isn’t going to help, the job is not the issue and watching Netflix fixes nothing.

lhamo

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2022, 09:16:29 AM »
I am not you and I am not in the middle of a major depressive episode, but I do struggle mightily with SAD (seasonal affective disorder) and this winter has been particularly hard because until the past couple of weeks it has been the darkest/cloudiest/coldest/most miserable we have had for decades.  I was in a pretty major funk at the turn of the year but the following steps have REALLY helped:

1)  I am trying to spend 1000 hours outside this year.  Most of that will be during gardening season, but I'm aiming for at least an hour a day average for now and mostly hitting it.   There are some fun trackers here:

https://www.1000hoursoutside.com/trackers

2)   I am tracking how many hours a day/week I get walking and gardening.  I have noticed that it encourages me to go out and do even a little bit as long as it isn't pouring rain. And I have even taken a couple of walks in the rain, which I enjoyed more than I anticipated, partly because....

3) I am trying to listen to more music instead of a constant stream of podcasts.   Especially old albums I haven't listened to for years.   

4)  I'm trying to read more.  Mostly doing  this while I take a hot bath.  Pairing habits helps  reinforce them.

5)  I'm trying  to be more deliberate  about my  Netflix/Hulu choices, and tracking what I  watch.

6)  I'm trying to cook at least 12 new recipes.  I'm already up to something like 5-6  and the family has liked most of them, loved a few.

I've  found that the positive effects of even just a few of these areas of more concentrated focus tend to accumulate rapidly. I am sinking into the glum less  often and it is easier  to climb out by deliberately turning to one of the choices.   If I am particularly low I try to make sure my Netflix/youtube/hulu choice pushes me gently toward one of the other areas -- I'll watch some Gardener's  World, or a cooking series, or Marie Kondo or some other organization show.

Again, I am not saying you can  beat   your  current issues by this kind  of thing. But maybe a few areas resonate with you.

jfer_rose

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2022, 10:39:13 AM »
I agree with many others that you should see a doctor and get screened for depression. It doesn’t matter if (to use your language) your “presentation is not as unequivocally bad.” Just because some people may be in worse shape doesn’t mean you don’t need and deserve to feel better.

So I think getting screened for depression is priority number one.

I have personally also experienced unhappiness at my job such that I imagined the relief I would feel if I got hit by a bus. I did get treated for depression and it did help a lot.

Once my depression was under control, another thing that helped me was the book “Designing Your Life” by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. Most helpful for me was a particular exercise the book recommends in which you track how you spend your time and how you feel during different activities. I found, for example, that I felt best when I was working on things with my hands. The book also recommends to try to prototype changes (such as a big career switch) before you make changes that are hard to undo. Based on my work after this book, I made some big changes and I no longer work at the job that got me so down.

One other thing I will mention: it sounds like my job had similarities to yours in that I thought of it as a dream job, almost like I won the lottery to have it. I felt so much guilt that I was unhappy in the “dream” job. I wish I would have let go of that feeling sooner as it was holding me back from finding a life that was a better fit for my reality, rather than my dream.

mspym

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2022, 01:59:22 PM »
Not sure how easy they are to find in Europe, but given that you recognize  how your  current issues are linked to childhood trauma/neglect I would highly recommend you seek out a trauma-informed therapist.  Straight "mind over matter" CBT approaches can be very detrimental for those with a history of parental guilting like yours.   You realize yourself that this is not something you can just think your way out of.   I suffered for YEARS trying to CBT my way out of my traumatic baggage and it just didn't work, only made things worse in fact.
CBT didn't work for me either, it just gave my negative self-talk more 'evidence' that it could use to make me feel bad about myself. I found Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) a better fit for me. This is just to say there are multiple schools out there and just because some don't work for you, it might be because the therapist or the style of therapy is not right for you. I hope you find something that resonates with you.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 02:00:53 PM by mspym »

Scio5

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Re: Help, I'm living in a perpetual existential crisis
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2022, 10:00:19 AM »
I'm not the OP, but so much of this thread was a wake-up call. I was in OP's shoes at my previous job (including passive suicidality) and was able to first downshift to part-time and then leave. I thought that the entire problem was a very long commute, but I'm getting to the same place in my current job and I'm realizing that "wherever you go, there you are." I just started a new therapist that thinks I'm having some SAD, but this thread spurred me to look at my private journal entries and no, this has been my baseline at work for a long time (before COVID added so many things to be depressed and anxious about). I'm going to bring up "dysthymia" at my next session.

Thank you all, and I hope that havregryn is able to get better mental healthcare.