Author Topic: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!  (Read 2652 times)

darkskys

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Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« on: March 06, 2021, 07:28:48 AM »
Hey good friends of MMM, long time lurker here and looking for a bit of advice if you would be so kind. I'm a first generation college and my parents had me at a VERY young age, so I've had a few (AHM lots) of hard knocks over the years figuring this all out on my own. Back when I started graduate school and my eventual career this site had a great deal of influence on my current success. As for financial background, we aren't FI but we have FU money and we plan on slowly downshifting over the course of this decade. I also live in a prosperous city in the US and there are plenty of jobs available, although I work for a company in a different state.

I've been a working professional at the same company for 5 years. I'm a high performer and have received multiple promotions and make over a 100k a year now. For purposes of this post, let's define my current role and manager as A) and future role as B). As I've progressed through the years I've learned what I'm passionate about and good at and while working have taught myself a skillset for a career shift. There was a internal position over a year ago I applied for and ended up settling on doing that 50/50 with role A and role B while I trained into role B and got a feel for it. It's initially been great, but learning an entirely new career while executing the demands of role A has been rough recently. Role B transition was supposed to occur on April 1st provided the financial details were approved at B), and team at Role A) has known this for 6 months and has had time to plan. I will add that I'm doing very well at Role B and have even introduced a number of innovations that the team has been thrilled about.

So fast forward to yesterday (Friday). On Monday, I'm supposed to meet with manager A and B and discuss the transition plan. Manager A so far has been supportive and kept me on shorter duration projects so the transition can go smoothly. Manager A contacts me yesterday, the very business day before we discuss this transition, and changes the tune and says they might not be able to let me go since apparently a big business critical (ahm project that will make them look good) has popped up and now they need 'technical resources' and can't afford to lose me until they find a replacement. Which will likely take up to 6 months at least, but she kept the end date undefined. Needless to say I was quite furious but kept my composure but didn't hide the fact I was incredibly disappointed.

Now I have no idea what Manager B is going to say. Manager B might very well try to be complicit with her to keep the peace, and if that's the case, I think I have less pull here. However either way, I think it's too much to ask someone to keep doing two jobs for longer than the 6 months agreement with no end date in sight. To add to the picture the team at Role A can be toxic and the work is very difficult and stressful - and I hate the type of work they have me do. I just don't know the best option here. Obviously I can't agree to an undefined date for a backfill as that's just messy and they will be taking advantage of me for a good chunk of 2021. At best I think I was going to offer an extension to the original agreement of May 1st, but that feels bad too because it's an awful idea to start a major project that will go well into 2022 on Role A if I'm just going to leave in another month. I could easily see this leading to I can't transition at all. I think at a minimum I'm going to say that this is the date agreed upon and I cannot continue to do two roles for any longer, and it's not fair to ask me to do so.

To top it off, role B is quite a shift and job code change so I might actually take a pay hit. Which is fine, it actually has more $$ potential, and I'd like what I'm doing more and will have more marketable skills for the future. I'm a little concerned that with half a years experience in the new role it would be rough to find something equivalent around here if I left . If they decide to change the job code in the fiscal year AND continue doing the old role I might as well just quit right there, which I'm still thinking of doing if they don't give a defined end date. I imagine manager B isn't going to be for a long transition. If for some reason they can't come to an agreement and I have go back to role A full time I'd start looking for a job immediately. This isn't the first time I've been jerked around at this company, and I'm about at wits end. Any tips going into this meeting? It's hard to plan because I have no idea what manager B is thinking. I do have walk away power here and with my wife working and our stash we could be quite fine for some time, although I'd hate to just sit around my house pumping out applications and starting a new job in the covid era.

maizefolk

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2021, 07:44:58 AM »
How frequently do people change employers in your field? The dynamics are very different in, say, software development in San Francisco where moving around is common and expected to get promotions and move into new roles vs the USDA where many people are lifers and career advancement is by promotion or transfer.

How easily do you think you could find another job? From your manager's perspective it doesn't matter whether that new job is in field A or in field B, the question is whether if they are making you unhappy/treating you poorly, how easily do they imagine you could walk out the door and find something else? Managers generally don't believe anyone has or is willing to use FU money, but in some fields they recognize top performers could go elsewhere quite easily.

If you are worried six months of half time work in field B isn't enough for you to get jobs in field B, would another few months in your current 50/50 split be enough to make you qualified for field B positions at other employers? Or would you be in the same position with regard to getting a job in field B whether you quit today, or waited out a chunk of 2021, gaining a longer track record in field B at 50% and then quit to find a full time position in field B if your transfer doesn't go through?

I'm sorry for the situation manager A has placed you in. Realizing how much power people can have to arbitrarily mess with the goals we are pursuing in our work lives is always unsettling, particularly when it is someone you have known and worked with a long time and thought you had a good working relationship with. I'd have been furious too.

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2021, 07:53:19 AM »
Probably should have clarified that in my first post.

Role A - is a quasi mechanical engineering, but this role unfortunately turned into a ton of messy paperwork and has gotten worse has people have rapidly changed all the requirements lately with complicated forms and training since they have NOTHING to do at home apparently. It's more now on the compliance/regulatory side of things.

Role B - actually is software engineering. So yes, people change often. I do have some professional training I did in the off hours so I have that to back it up to. I could produce some projects for my github in short order to show people what I can do. I'm at the point where I'm progressing pass the beginner phase and it's no issue to whip up a basic ui and backend with a database for a production really quickly.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2021, 08:11:30 AM »
I work for a major company that has clearly defined rules for internal transfers. Are there any guidelines for internal transfers in your company? Do you have an HR counterpart that you could talk to? I'd position it as looking to get more info on how to best support the transfer, not finger pointing or complaining.

MayDay

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2021, 08:21:10 AM »
If you are willing to potentially get yourself in trouble, I'd go to Manager B and say "to be honest I'm going to quit if I don't get moved 100% to job B at a firm date".

This seems like a great time to use F U money.

Tester

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2021, 08:24:04 AM »
Linkedin.com now. Or after you have the official meeting telling you no. Which still means now.

maizefolk

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2021, 08:25:20 AM »
Getting some nice projects on github would probably be a good idea either way. If you have some paid leave built up could you take a week or two off and focus on putting together some open source skill demonstration projects?

People procrastinate at stuff they don't want to do. And making a new hire and then training that hire is a lot of work, and it can sometimes go very wrong. So it is understandable why manager A would want to push the need to do that back into the future. The trick is to communicate clearly (without explicitly saying it) that the decision actually being made isn't about whether to delay the extra work and mess of bringing on your replacement by telling you you cannot leave, but instead is a decision about whether you transfer to role B or leave the company to get similar work elsewhere, neither of which allows manager A to procrastinate.

If you time it right, taking a chunk of time off to work on other projects could also help emphasis to manager A that they really do have to start putting in the work of getting a replacement lined up for you because either they're eventually going to have to approve your transfer to job B or they don't approve your transfer to job B, you'll quit, and find a job in field B at another employer and either way manager A has to hire your replacement.

Raenia

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2021, 08:52:32 AM »
Remember that "That's not going to work for me" is a complete sentence.  Go into that meeting knowing what you want (to transfer to job B as scheduled) and what you're willing to take as a worst case (a set end date of your choosing, that you've decided ahead of time.)  If manager A pushes for anything beyond that, "I'm sorry, that's not going to work for me."  Hopefully manager B will back you up, but if not, you must be willing to resign and seek a better opportunity elsewhere.

Generally, the manager will be able to tell that you're both serious and confident in getting the outcome you want (a change of job to field B, whether at this company or elsewhere), and will respond to that confidence by working within your boundaries.

Mr. Green

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2021, 09:04:13 AM »
Yeah if you've been training into software engineering and are good enough that you've introduced innovations to the new team and they're thrilled with your performance then I suspect you would have no issues finding a job elsewhere. If you have FU money this is the perfect time to use it. The company would be stupid not to yield to you insisting the transition happen as originally planned but I've seen companies make stupid decisions and allow a good employee to leave. I don't know if you have any idea which way that conversation would go, but do not be afraid to stand up for yourself. If you bend now, there's nothing stopping them from throwing another roadblock up six months down the road because you've already shown that you'll yield to their demands.

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2021, 09:17:59 AM »
I've a ton of vacation - over 5 weeks worth. So I could use a good chunk of that now, if needed. I do have a potential opportunity in June that is very good (in my own city) that has strict boundaries with work life balance. I'm not sure I can get it, because I turned down an offer from them in the past. I did have a good excuse at the time since I needed to maintain my remote position to take care of a sick family member. I think that company all wors remote now due to covid. So if this goes south I don't want to miss out on that option either.

Unfortunately this company does this often and gets away with it because their main base of operations is a city that is remote and most people are just grateful to have a good paying job. So they throw their weight around and abuse their power as managers because they know people won't quit. I don't think they understand yet I'm in a city where high paying jobs are plentiful and that the same doesn't apply to me.

maizefolk

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2021, 10:04:17 AM »
I think Raenia's advice is good. It conveys how serious you are about this without explicitly making a threat to quit (which tend to be counter productive for lots of reasons).

It's also worth noting that it is better to have this meeting sooner rather than later. Right now if manager A backs down and pushes forward with hiring and training your replacement they have near two months to get the new person in place and up to speed. They also benefit from your experience and ability in field A for another two months, which they will lose if they push you to turn in your two weeks notice, are left without your expertise, and a hole on their team until they can recruit and train someone new. So giving you what you want gives manager a much better set of outcomes for then than you quitting.

However, every day that passes, the difference between the impact of you transferring on manager A and the impact of you quitting on manager A shrinks. If you have the same discussion only a few days before you are supposed to transfer, from manager A's perspective either way you're going to be gone in a few days and either way they have a hole on their team that's going to be a mess to fill. So manager A has no real self-interest based motivation to have you transfer rather than quit.

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2021, 10:12:25 AM »
I think Raenia's advice is good. It conveys how serious you are about this without explicitly making a threat to quit (which tend to be counter productive for lots of reasons).

However, every day that passes, the difference between the impact of you transferring on manager A and the impact of you quitting on manager A shrinks. If you have the same discussion only a few days before you are supposed to transfer, from manager A's perspective either way you're going to be gone in a few days and either way they have a hole on their team that's going to be a mess to fill. So manager A has no real self-interest based motivation to have you transfer rather than quit.

Not sure I fully understand this statement - can you clarify?

I will be having this conversation on Monday. Which is why I was so furious that out of the blue manager A contacts me after we had a conversation the previous week that it's OK to transfer at the agreed upon date of April 1st. There was no mention of needing to backfill until yesterday.

maizefolk

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2021, 10:40:37 AM »
Not sure which of the two ideas you are asking about:

1) Raenia's advice that "That doesn't work for me." is a full sentence is a really good way to make it clear to Manager A that you feel strongly about this and will probably quit rather than continue to work in Role A for six months or more. It is much more effective at conveying that same message than actually saying "Transfer me or I quit." Does that make sense? If not, can explain more.

2) Right now Manager A is deciding between you leaving for a new role in 2 months (as previously discussed) or in 6+ months (what she said to you most recently). Assuming you are good at your job, clearly manager A would prefer 6+ months of work from you rather than 2. If you convey-without-explicitly-saying that you feel strongly enough about the transfer that you'd rather leave right now than stay in her department, her choice is now between you leaving in 0.5 months (you give two weeks notice) or 2 months (you transfer as previously discussed).

If Manager A would prefer you to keep working for her for 6 months (no transfer) over 2 months (transfer), she should also prefer 2 months (transfer) to 0.5 months (you quit).*

However, two weeks from now the same trade off is 1.5 months (transfer) vs 0.5 months (you quit). Then in another two weeks, 1 month (transfer) vs 0.5 months (quit). Then 0.5 months (transfer) vs 0.5 months (quit).

So if the discussion is delayed or dragged out and you don't get to the point where Manager A has to make a decision until mid-April, then whether she agrees to the transfer or you resign, you are leaving in 0.5 months either way. At that point there is no particular reason she should agree to the transfer**, particularly if she thinks there is a chance you aren't serious and won't actually give notice. 

*Assuming perfect rationality and no unknown incentives, both dangerous assumptions but we have to start somewhere.

**There is also no reason she should NOT agree to the transfer, but people are messy and stubborn sometimes, so it really helps if you can align their self interest with your own.

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2021, 10:50:16 AM »
Ok thanks for clarifying, the help here is much appreciated. I love that ďit doesnít work for meĒ is a complete sentence, although I worry a bit that it will look unfavorably upon me since the meeting is both with manager A and B. Luckily I also have an mentor advocate who will be there also that thinks her last minute roadblock is ridiculous. I also donít think the new team will let her roll over us and keep me for an undefined period of time. Although if manager A and B for some reason are on the same page Iím going to have more difficulty with this.

So for now, when she proposes that I stay for an undefined length of time and to pick up her major project I will use the statement ďthat will not work for meĒ.

I will clarify my previous statement that April 1st is the agreed upon date, and I was considering offering may 1st as the absolute last date I would work for her to show Iím willing to flex a little.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 10:53:57 AM by darkskys »

maizefolk

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2021, 11:05:04 AM »
The concern about appearing like a calm and reasonable person to manager B is a real one. The nice thing about the phrasing is that you can say it in a very non-confrontational way:

"Unfortunately, that doesn't work for me. What are our other options/what are the alternatives?"

Approach it working together as a team to solve a problem. And it is a solvable problem. Clearly it does not take six months to be able to prepare for a position becoming vacant. What happens if someone takes another job? Or gets hit by a bus? The company clearly does not shut down every time an employee leaves without giving six months notice. So there are solutions out there.

And feel secure in the knowledge that you know what you're willing to give away (an extra month on position A) and what you're not (staying on in position A indefinitely). And you know you have FU money, an employable set of skills, and you really can leave if you choose to do so.

reeshau

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2021, 11:44:15 AM »
This is a classic job trap for high performers:  "you're too valuable to let you go."  Even worse if it's done in a passive-agressive way, stringing you along.  I agree that @Raenia 's advice is sound.  Unfortunately, this is now a dangerous situation--for anyone who doesn't have FU money.  Even with it, it messes with your plans, perhaps big time.  If you pushed back, didn't succeed, but stayed, you could face any number of issues:  being labelled "difficult," passed over for opportunities, slightly less merit than others, etc.  Or maybe your current manager really is in a bad situation, and it just came up.  But that's not your worry.

You are entering a negotiation.  The only thing you control is your reaction to what happens.  It is very good to understand, outside of the heat of the moment, what you want and what you would be willing to do to get there.  (i.e. what you would settle for)  In particular, try to understand under what conditions you would leave.  When it comes time to talk, keep your tone as level as you can, be professional (rather than making it personal) and lay out your parameters.  Not to put ideas in your head, but maybe you would help train your replacement?  help out 25%, as long as you moved to Manager B's headcount?  (being in their headcount will motivate them to get you 100%)  Or maybe it's been long enough, and needs to happen, or not.  All the more important to be crystal clear with yourself and your communication, since it will be a remote meeting and you won't be able to rely on catching all the body language.

Is there anyone else that has been involved in these discussions?  HR (sometimes helpful)?  Do these groups report to a common boss, who might be aware of the situation and could arbitrate it?  Has it been written into your annual review or work plan?  Any broader exposure / formalization could bring complications for Manager A to mess with it.  You said Manager B might go along with it, but if they are mad too by the interruption, they could be a good ally in pushing it forward.

Sorry to hear it's happened.  Take it as a back-handed compliment!  And good luck on Monday.

Sandi_k

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2021, 01:17:52 PM »
The concern about appearing like a calm and reasonable person to manager B is a real one. The nice thing about the phrasing is that you can say it in a very non-confrontational way:

"Unfortunately, that doesn't work for me. What are our other options/what are the alternatives?"

Approach it working together as a team to solve a problem. And it is a solvable problem. Clearly it does not take six months to be able to prepare for a position becoming vacant. What happens if someone takes another job? Or gets hit by a bus? The company clearly does not shut down every time an employee leaves without giving six months notice. So there are solutions out there.

This is excellent advice.

After you let Boss A answer that question and explore it a bit, you can also offer to sit on the hiring committee for your replacement, and to assist with assessing technical skills sufficient to do the job well. That should also be seen as a "team" player who wants the company to succeed...

[/quote]

Zamboni

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2021, 02:40:33 PM »
Manager A is being unprofessional. Full stop. Unfortunately, what you are experiencing is pretty common.

You need to stay relentlessly pleasant, be non-committal if you must, but you don't have to agree to any of this new plan for a delayed transfer. Remember: Manager A can't make you do anything. You won't be able to do a really good job in role B while you continue trying to do two different jobs. You need to be able to focus on role B. Therefore, delaying the transition date won't work for you. It just won't work for you. Keep repeating that over and over, and keep smiling about it.

In my opinion, you absolutely should not offer to change the date to May 1st. That won't solve the problem for you (the problem being that Manager A doesn't want to let you go. . . near the end of April they will absolutely try to delay again.)  Think about it this way: if you were retiring, would manager A be able to make you stay another month? No? Then don't stay another month in this current situation. They can't make you stay. You only stay in role A if you want to stay in it . . . which you don't.

So tell them that you don't agree to this new plan. End of story. You can be pleasant in your firm stance, but don't be agreeable or cooperative about their idea that the new plan is your transition is delayed. People who are too agreeable and cooperative get walked all over by people like Manager A, who isn't a good manager if you want my opinion about it.

If you go along with this idiocy and don't stand politely firm in your boundary that the transition has to happen fully by the agreed upon date, then you are actually hurting yourself permanently with both managers because they will learn that they can take advantage of you and you won't fully stick up for yourself. You can remain pleasant and professional and still stick up for yourself. Good luck!

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2021, 05:21:46 PM »
Ok last detail - I still donít know what the new manager is thinking. Maybe he will be complicit with the old one. If thatís the case, still stick to the guns right?

At the end of the day I canít do two jobs anymore. Stretched too thin.

maizefolk

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2021, 05:32:37 PM »
Well game is out. If manager B says he doesnít want you to transfer anymore (at least four the next six months), what would your preferred outcome be?

Quit and look for work in field B? Go back to working job A full time while looking for a new job in field B? Continue on doing both A and B for another six months? Something else?

Iíd avoid thinking in words like ďcomplicitĒ. It is easy to take these things personally, but itíll make it harder to maintain the calm but resolved attitude youíll need for you meeting.

Zamboni

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2021, 06:40:51 PM »
So you talk to manager B separately . . . catch manager B early in the morning on Monday if you can. Stay calm and tell them how excited and happy you are in your new position at how much you've already learned and contributed, and be sure to let him/her know that you really, really want to be able to give 100% of your effort to team B. You have heard a concerning plan that manager A wants to hang on to you for longer than agreed, but you are not on board with their plan at all. Let Manager B know without any doubt that keeping any of the responsibilities from Manager A's team even one day past the originally agreed upon date is just not going to work for you. Period. You want to be fully invested in B moving forward.

Make it clear to manager B that you feel that by agreeing to the previous transition time that has already happened, you already did manager A a favor. Manager B needs to go to bat for both you and team B now if Manager A tries to hang on to you longer for any reason. Thank them for hearing you out.

And then see what Manager B does. If they stick up for you, then you're good to go. If they go along with Manager A at all instead of insisting that you 100% transfer at the originally agreed upon date, then you know Manager B is a poor manager, and you might as well look for a new job now. Because, honestly, you don't want to work for people who don't care what you want to do. You're too smart and too capable for that. I think the first scenario will happen as you hope, and B will have your back and you can stop worrying. If they don't, and you get pressured into continuing to do things for group A, then call in sick for the next few days, then go on vacation while you put in applications at every other good sounding job. Get a haircut and get ready for some Zoom interviews. Seriously. Only play nice if Manager B has your back.

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2021, 10:13:20 AM »
Well looks like manager A is being noncommittal and apparently needs more information from higher up about these projects by the end of the week. She said this process could go well into august at worst case I did say the longer transition doesnít work for me I though so hopefully they take it seriously. According to her she felt as though the process would begin on April 1st, not fully transition. I did say I needed to hear commitment on the date by the end of the week to help my decision making process, which hinted I might look elsewhere. Manager B got a bit upset at me and asked me to trust my current manager A that the process would go well and didnít understand why I was putting pressure on the issue. They did say they want to make it happen as quickly as possible. Call me cynical, but I donít believe it.

Manager B was fighting for me but unfortunately these movements at my company are largely on the goodwill of the the current manger, so are hands are a bit tied.

I am on quite good terms with manager Aís manager,, so Iím going to talk to them. Iím calling this one C. As confusing as it sounds, manager C is a bit more hands off but I guess I report to her as well. So I think I have 3 managers.. ugh! On a good note, I was informed my compensation wonít change even though Iím less experienced in the new area so my salary is going to be about 40% higher than a junior developer in my city, so I have some golden handcuffs going on.

Sadly I see this being a messy, drawn out, and exhausting process. Iím sure probably being overly negative but thatís where my head is right now. I feel icky coming out of this process because at my company itís not appropriate to speak up and you literally have no control. Aside from walking away.

I have a couple years expenses saved (liquid not including other pretax accounts) and my wife works so Iím ok. Not looking forward to going back into an office and taking a pay cut though, but maybe itís less fucking hassle.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 10:36:50 AM by darkskys »

Tester

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2021, 11:30:37 AM »
Again, linkedin.com today.
I am not saying leave, I am saying get some.interviews and some offers and go from there.
Worst case you don't get any interviews, but this still gives you more information on your options.
If they just start the transition process on April 1st it will take more than 6 months to finish it?

partgypsy

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2021, 11:43:20 AM »
I don't make as much money as you, situation was not quite the same, but I was making an internal change from one boss to another. The transition was supposed to be June 1st, plenty of advance notice. And my old boss continued to act like I was still working 100% for him, and my new boss started giving me work that was a full time role. I talked to both bosses (I suggested they talk to each other in case they wanted to shift start/end dates). But each refused to talk or even acknowledge the other. I ended up.talking to admin, they had a similar experience (they would not play nice). So admin offered that I keep track of what I was doing for old boss, and they would pay me additional for that. However I didn't want to get into that situation. So I made an internal deadline (sep 1) to stop working for old boss let them know, reminding them, cc'ing admin with, have any questions, please talk to admin. And handled it that way. Anyways, neither boss acted very professionally. And since I was with old boss more of that fiscal year he had to do my annual review. He didn't read my self review, made small talk about his personal life, and then gave me "met expectations" though honestly I should have been rated higher.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 12:59:47 PM by partgypsy »

maizefolk

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2021, 12:06:05 PM »
Since you've given manager A a deadline (end of this week), I would hold off on approaching manager C until at least next Monday. Doing things that can be perceived as going over someone's head are extremely tricky and delicate.

But if you have to do it you'll be in a stronger position if you can talk to Manager C because Manager A was supposed to get back to you with info by date X and didn't than if you talk to Manager C just because you don't trust Manager A to deliver on what was promised.

If misery loves company: I have four different bosses I report to. Three of whom seem to like my work. And the fourth is the one who signs off on my annual evaluations. Ugh. Anyway, random digression.

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2021, 01:00:54 PM »
Unfortunately I couldnít be very pleasant but I kept a poker face. Made em squirm a bit. They definitely got grumpy about the pressure though. Manager A is a smiley babbler.

Yeah reporting to multiple people is ridiculous. Our company has vastly more leaders than there are doers, so itís not uncommon for people to be beholden to multiple people.

This is just another kick in the pants to keep pursuing FI.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 01:02:45 PM by darkskys »

use2betrix

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2021, 04:55:24 PM »
As mentioned elsewhere, what is the harm in looking? Unless you have dang near a ďdream job,Ē then always be on the lookout. If you truly arenít happy, then itís 100x more important to be on the lookout.

Best case scenario, you find some killer job for more money, more flexibility, less hours, that appreciates you more.

Worst case scenario, you throw some feelers out for a couple months and donít get crap for bites. In turn, you appreciate the job you currently have (despite some unhappiness) which is still a win.

Beings you are currently working, you have 10x more leverage on negotiations as well. I got hit up on LinkedIn randomly last fall (wasnít looking at all, loved my job). I entertained their discussions, went through 3 interviews, etc. By the time we went through all that, I had mega leverage already being in a job I loved with amazing pay. With that negotiating power, I was able to get $20/hr more than the top of their expected pay range, and probably $40-$50/hr more than I would have accepted had I been unemployed 4-5 months.

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2021, 05:46:50 PM »
Doesnít hurt at all. Iíve got the LinkedIn updated and putting feelers out there.

I will have a lot more leverage in a year or two in the new role. I get hit almost daily in the career Iím moving from.

fuzzy math

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2021, 05:51:09 PM »
Yuck! That is disappointing that manager B is not supportive of you wanting to have the transfer proceed as stated. Its perfectly appropriate to tell manager B that you've been trying to pull double duty physically and mentally and that you are excited to be able to fully focus on B. If B has an allegiance to A that is going to compromise your future position, that is something you need to deeply evaluate going forward.

Villanelle

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2021, 01:01:01 PM »
I agree with not going to C until the deadline you've given A and B has passed.  You told them they had until Friday, so give them to Friday. On Thursday if they haven't yet set a meeting, contact them to ask what time tomorrow you will be meeting to follow up on the last conversation.   If Friday's answer isn't acceptable to you, then leave them with something vague after the conversation has hit a wall.  (Well, it seems that [whatever they are proposing] is the only answer we are going to get, so I appreciate your time today.  I made it clear where I stood, and you've made it clear where you stand.   You've given me a lot to think about and I'll get back to you by the end of next week.)  That sort of thing, unless you are prepared to give them a hard no at that point (in which case you need to be prepared to quit.)  Then go to C immediately and talk it out with them. 

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2021, 04:43:57 PM »
Well deadline passed and only response is A made a job posting for my backfill. Iíd like to stay because new job had really exciting work.

Ugh. Oh well. Wait it out and talk to recruiters.

Dicey

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2021, 05:43:00 PM »
Well deadline passed and only response is A made a job posting for my backfill. Iíd like to stay because new job had really exciting work.

Ugh. Oh well. Wait it out and talk to recruiters.
I think I've been FIRE too long to understand this. Does this mean according to A you're out?

maizefolk

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2021, 05:50:25 PM »
I think Manager A is trying to hire a new person to do darkskys' old job. Manager A made finding and training a replacement a precondition of darkskys transferring to manager B.

scottish

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2021, 11:35:09 AM »
I know this is coming a bit late, but have you considered taking a passive-aggressive approach with manager A?    If you can focus on your work with manager B and let manager A's tasks gradually slide, this will increase her incentive to find a replacement for you and effectively move you into your new role.     The 'agreed' transition dates are obviously not firm milestones in anyone's minds, so why should the 'agreed' work assignments be any more firm?

It's definitely walking a fine line, and it may not work at your company.   My experience, most managers are too disorganized to prevent this approach from working.   And the fact that you guys have more chiefs than workers is a favourable sign...

Zamboni

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2021, 03:48:20 PM »
^I fully agree with this. Put all of the Job A tasks at the bottom of your list. Prioritize tasks for Job B. If there is some part of Job A you absolutely MUST do to avoid completely screwing uninvolved people (like sign time cards for other people or something), then do it. Otherwise, all energy on Job B tasks, limited to 40 hours a week, with really no time on Job A. Let the uncompleted tasks pile up, avoid meetings as much as possible, and take sick days and use up your vacation days if you must.

Once someone is hired in Job A, then give them a couple of days of your full attention to get them up to speed. Then wipe your hands of it entirely.

darkskys

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Re: Help! Manager blocking internal move at 11th hour!
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2021, 10:48:17 AM »
^I fully agree with this. Put all of the Job A tasks at the bottom of your list. Prioritize tasks for Job B. If there is some part of Job A you absolutely MUST do to avoid completely screwing uninvolved people (like sign time cards for other people or something), then do it. Otherwise, all energy on Job B tasks, limited to 40 hours a week, with really no time on Job A. Let the uncompleted tasks pile up, avoid meetings as much as possible, and take sick days and use up your vacation days if you must.

Once someone is hired in Job A, then give them a couple of days of your full attention to get them up to speed. Then wipe your hands of it entirely.

This approach is exactly what manager B and I agreed on this week. Iím going to do the absolute minimum to get by. I really like the new team and thereís tons of opportunities so this is 100% the best option. Manager A was on vacation last week so will see what trouble they cause when they get back. Iím just going to follow this approach and move on and hope they donít pull any crazy power moves. If they do, I will say we have to meet with the other manager to discuss it, which will further delay any assignments to ridiculous projects.