Author Topic: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents  (Read 36519 times)

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2016, 01:32:36 PM »
$900/month in social services bills sounds like less than what you might be paying to keep them off social services because they'll find ways to fritter away some of what you give them on nonessentials.

totoro

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2016, 01:48:30 PM »
OP I think it will be fine. Even the worst case scenario is not too bad and your brother can help out later.  Best case which seems likely is that they will find jobs, bring their money over and buy a place and everything will settle down for you all.  There are some significant cultural differences between mmm philosophy and what works in Zimbabwe and your parents will adapt.

mozar

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2016, 01:51:30 PM »
Here's what I would  do. I would cancel their BnB and offer to let them live with you for a small amount. As long as its OK with your landlord I would do that. Since you are legally responsible for them for 20 years you just might have to live with them for 20 years. Based on your description of them I doubt they will will be able to pay for housing on their own. This is the cheapest option.
You can get a room divider and a bed for them. And don't offer them any more money. They won't like being in a one bedroom apartment with 2 other people so that might motivate them to get out on their own.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2016, 02:01:45 PM »
No, this is Canada and we have universal healthcare.  As stated above Canada does not charge permanent residents for medical care other than the small monthly premium.   What you are on "the hook" for is if they go on social assistance ie. public welfare assistance perhaps known as SA in the US. 

The sponsor must undertake to provide the sponsored family members with:

•Food, clothing, shelter and other basic requirements of everyday living; and
•Dental and eye care and other health needs not covered by public health services available to all Canadian citizens and permanent residents.
The obligation to provide for the essential needs of the sponsored person(s) will only arise if the sponsored person(s) are unable to provide for these needs on their own.

The welfare/SA rate in British Columbia for a family of two under 65 is about $900/month.   This is the likely worst case scenario the OP is facing should they have no funds or ability to support themselves - along with necessary dental and eye care.  I don't think it needs to go there ever given their asset base back home.

Thanks for clarifying this.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2016, 02:08:52 PM »
I would suggest that you cancel the B and B: booking it 1) creates the suggestion that you might be willing to take on financial responsibility for their accommodation, 2) potentially gives them overinflated ideas about the lifestyle and accommodation they will be able to afford (someone else to provide breakfast for them for a month!) 3) prevents them from having an immediate realisation of their future financial position and lifestyle in Canada.

You need to reset your parent's expectations, before and on arrival, to what is realistic.  Tell them now what their options for housing are and what they will cost, and that you will be happy to book something for them for their first month as soon as they have sent the money to cover it.

The tickets are already bought and paid for.  They are, as I understand from the OP's post, coming.  Unless she wants them staying in their one bedroom with them the $1300/month bnb option is pretty good and very affordable for Victoria for short-term accommodation.  She has sponsored them and is already legally obligated to provide shelter for them if they cannot do so themselves.  They have permanent residency and are legally allowed to enter Canada and reside here.

In the OPs shoes I would keep the BnB unless she is prepared to have them in her house.  I would be looking for jobs for them now.  In Victoria there is always a need for infant/childcare and there are a lot of office assistant jobs here that can be a place to start from.

Yes, the tickets are booked and paid for, so I can't cancel them, otherwise I lose $3,000.  I prefer them staying elsewhere to be honest, hence why I told them from the get-go that they would need to find their own place and I booked the BnB in advance so they can have somewhere to live while they find a more permanent home. They agreed that $1,300 would be reasonable for the first couple of months. My mum has started looking into home support jobs, but I 'm not sure if my dad has started looking into what job options he has. Mum has a master of public policy degree and dad has a trades certificate. I am aware though, that entering the job market as an immigrant with no Canadian work experience is challenging. They know that too, but my mum is willing to start from the bottom.

Miss Piggy

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2016, 02:14:35 PM »
Often, even with already purchased tickets, tickets can be changed.

Honestly, I think you would be wise to insist that they come to Canada only AFTER they sell their Zimbabwe house. Otherwise, as you said, they have very little cash flow. They are taking a huge risk with this renter...what if that falls through, or the renter doesn't pay rent, etc.?

Captain FIRE

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2016, 02:19:19 PM »
Here's what I would  do. I would cancel their BnB and offer to let them live with you for a small amount. As long as its OK with your landlord I would do that. Since you are legally responsible for them for 20 years you just might have to live with them for 20 years. Based on your description of them I doubt they will will be able to pay for housing on their own. This is the cheapest option.
You can get a room divider and a bed for them. And don't offer them any more money. They won't like being in a one bedroom apartment with 2 other people so that might motivate them to get out on their own.

You may want to consider this.  Yes, it's not fun but this would reinforce how urgent it is that they find jobs and support themselves.  This makes it uncomfortable for them and puts pressure on them, in a way saying "I can't keep paying for your BnB" doesn't.

Question: You plan to FIRE in your 40s/at age 40?  What do you think your parents will expect from you then?  Given your culture, it seems to me they'll expect you have plenty of money to support them and they won't need to work further.  They likely may get mad as well that you were hoarding this money instead of helping them over the past 15 years as well.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2016, 02:19:46 PM »
Here's what I would  do. I would cancel their BnB and offer to let them live with you for a small amount. As long as its OK with your landlord I would do that. Since you are legally responsible for them for 20 years you just might have to live with them for 20 years. Based on your description of them I doubt they will will be able to pay for housing on their own. This is the cheapest option.
You can get a room divider and a bed for them. And don't offer them any more money. They won't like being in a one bedroom apartment with 2 other people so that might motivate them to get out on their own.

I'm thinking that if they arrive without the cash to pay for the BnB, I'll cancel it then and they will come to my place and have to sleep in my living room (They/I would have to pay for the first night only, in the case of a last minute cancellation). I'll leave the reservation open just in case they do keep their word and arrive with the required funds. It's difficult to get such good deals on short term accommodation here, so I'd prefer I kept that option option. Thanks for the advice!

AlanStache

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2016, 02:22:21 PM »
I suspect OP's parents could come up with 2k for plane tickets even if the OP canceled the travel accommodation, the reward for getting to Canada is to great and it sounds like there is no way to keep them out.  Canceling the tickets will only upset them, they will still get to Canada and OP will still be responsible.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2016, 02:26:30 PM »
Here's what I would  do. I would cancel their BnB and offer to let them live with you for a small amount. As long as its OK with your landlord I would do that. Since you are legally responsible for them for 20 years you just might have to live with them for 20 years. Based on your description of them I doubt they will will be able to pay for housing on their own. This is the cheapest option.
You can get a room divider and a bed for them. And don't offer them any more money. They won't like being in a one bedroom apartment with 2 other people so that might motivate them to get out on their own.

You may want to consider this.  Yes, it's not fun but this would reinforce how urgent it is that they find jobs and support themselves.  This makes it uncomfortable for them and puts pressure on them, in a way saying "I can't keep paying for your BnB" doesn't.

Question: You plan to FIRE in your 40s/at age 40?  What do you think your parents will expect from you then?  Given your culture, it seems to me they'll expect you have plenty of money to support them and they won't need to work further.  They likely may get mad as well that you were hoarding this money instead of helping them over the past 15 years as well.

I agree. If they don't have the funds, they will sleep on my living room floor. But I will wait to cancel the BnB until their arrival.

I don't know what my parents expect from me in the future to be honest. I am happy to care of them in my home once they are old (75 years plus), but at the moment I prefer that they live their lives independently of me. I will talk to them to ask what expectations they have of me now that you have mentioned it.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2016, 02:34:31 PM »
Often, even with already purchased tickets, tickets can be changed.

Honestly, I think you would be wise to insist that they come to Canada only AFTER they sell their Zimbabwe house. Otherwise, as you said, they have very little cash flow. They are taking a huge risk with this renter...what if that falls through, or the renter doesn't pay rent, etc.?

Yes, the tenant poses quite a big risk. But it is unlikely that the house will sell with the current market conditions. It's been on the market for 2 years and only one offer was made (which my dad should have accepted, but he was too proud), and one other family viewed the house half a year ago but never followed up.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2016, 02:45:10 PM »
OP I think it will be fine. Even the worst case scenario is not too bad and your brother can help out later.  Best case which seems likely is that they will find jobs, bring their money over and buy a place and everything will settle down for you all.  There are some significant cultural differences between mmm philosophy and what works in Zimbabwe and your parents will adapt.

Thank you for  the reassurance and positivity regarding the whole situation. I really want my parents to live a better life here and be successful. And yes, it's so hard reconciling MMM ideas with my cultural background. As much as I love my parents, I can't see myself working for decades just to take care of them, but at the same time, I feel greatly responsible for them and their well-being.

marion10

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2016, 06:19:15 AM »
I want to offer some perspective as a 50 something- I know I would find it very stressful to move to a new culture and adapt. I think it unrealistic to expect them to be self supporting in a month and be able to work for decades-until they are in their 70s. I do not know if your parents are deliberately lying to you or just having difficulty accepting the new reality of their situation. I want to think the former.  I do not know their skill set- is your mother used to working outside the home? But it will take a while to find employment, I am sure.  This is not the situation they planned for either.  For me, making  sure my parents had a decent standard of living would take precedence over FIRE at40.

TOgirl

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2016, 06:48:45 AM »
If I can add something to the conversation that might be helpful:

I'm not in the same province as the OP, but I do work in Social Services in another large province with widespread immigration, sponsorship, and sponsorship default issues. I actually work beside the people who collect the sponsorship default debt. It's not horrible. It happens all the time. You have a long time to pay it back, even as it accumulates, and payment plans are often worked out with sponsors who are repaying voluntarily. The worst part of it is that you are not allowed to sponsor any other individuals until the debt is repaid in full.

In my province, there are different clauses for sponsorship default - if you can't support them and they live independently from you - they get full social assistance rates, if you can't pay for them but they DO live with you - they are entitled to basic living costs only, NOT accommodation costs...so your debt owed in the end would be less.

Not sure if this helps, but I wish you the best.

h2ogal

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2016, 08:55:47 AM »
I really feel for you in this situation.  Family is all we really have in the end, and I can tell you are a kind and responsible person and you may not be able to live with yourself if you turn your back on your parents.   

I agree with Marion10:
Quote
I want to offer some perspective as a 50 something- I know I would find it very stressful to move to a new culture and adapt. I think it unrealistic to expect them to be self supporting in a month and be able to work for decades-until they are in their 70s.

I also wonder how easy it will be for them to find a rental apartment if they have no income or credit history.

I think you need a contingency plan for the worst-case scenario:
- Assume they never sell/successfully rent the old house
- Assume your parents are unable to find/keep full-time work
- Assume they are unable to get credit or rent/lease a home on their own without a co-signer.

If the worst case came to pass what would you be willing to do?   Where would you draw the line?   Thinking about that ahead of time, instead of in the urgency of the moment will help.

I have a sibling who has MS and has no family besides me.  Although at this time she still is earning income from work, if/when her disease progresses, she may need support.   If my sister needed help I would move her right in with me, add a room on to the house, etc.  I would make sure she always had food, shelter, medical care, and some fun times and companionship.  However, I would not incur any credit/liability for example co-sign for a lease on an apartment or co-sign a loan.

I have a general rule to NEVER loan money to Family or Friends.   I will GIVE them what I can afford to give at the moment, with no expectation of repayment.   

When I am asked for a loan (usually by my sons), I always say something like, "no, I cant loan you money for an apartment deposit...but you can crash here while you save up for it."   or "sorry, I cant commit to co-signing for your house - I need my credit to be perfect for a business loan I am applying for soon.   But I can give your some cash as a gift towards the down payment."  or "no, you cant charge that motorcycle part you saw online on my credit card...I have a low limit and need it to cover travel expenses. But if you have the cash now, I can help you put it on a debit card in your name that you can use online."         



MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2016, 09:19:17 AM »
I want to offer some perspective as a 50 something- I know I would find it very stressful to move to a new culture and adapt. I think it unrealistic to expect them to be self supporting in a month and be able to work for decades-until they are in their 70s. I do not know if your parents are deliberately lying to you or just having difficulty accepting the new reality of their situation. I want to think the former.  I do not know their skill set- is your mother used to working outside the home? But it will take a while to find employment, I am sure.  This is not the situation they planned for either.  For me, making  sure my parents had a decent standard of living would take precedence over FIRE at40.

Thank you for your response. I agree with you about adapting to a new country/country. I'm young and I still struggled adapting to life here. It is tough and I expect it to be even tougher for them. I don't expect them to be self-supporting within a month. The BnB I reserved for them is for two months, and I'm going to help them find an apartment during that time. The plan is for them to have enough funds for at least the first 6 months here, and within that time period find a place to live, get jobs, and settle down. And I'm more than willing to help them settle by taking time off from work and driving them around, etc.

My mum does have some work experience. She worked for the government many years (decades) ago and in the last two years she worked for a non-profit org as a project officer. Other than that, she has mostly been a stay at home mom.

I also want the best for them and would never want to see them struggle. I'm just worried that I'll end up sacrificing my plans/life for other people. My DH and I have already given up on the idea of having kids because of our financially irresponsible parents. We know for sure that at some point we'll have to take care of both sets of parents because of their lack of financial planning/forward thinking, and involving kids in all of this would be unaffordable/unrealistic. What else do I have to sacrifice just so that my family is "comfortable"? FIRE at 40 is not something I'm willing to give up.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2016, 09:22:20 AM »
If I can add something to the conversation that might be helpful:

I'm not in the same province as the OP, but I do work in Social Services in another large province with widespread immigration, sponsorship, and sponsorship default issues. I actually work beside the people who collect the sponsorship default debt. It's not horrible. It happens all the time. You have a long time to pay it back, even as it accumulates, and payment plans are often worked out with sponsors who are repaying voluntarily. The worst part of it is that you are not allowed to sponsor any other individuals until the debt is repaid in full.

In my province, there are different clauses for sponsorship default - if you can't support them and they live independently from you - they get full social assistance rates, if you can't pay for them but they DO live with you - they are entitled to basic living costs only, NOT accommodation costs...so your debt owed in the end would be less.

Not sure if this helps, but I wish you the best.

Thank you for your detailed response. This makes me feel better, but at the same time I don't like the idea of owing debts to the province. I would prefer to help them financially than have them access any services to begin with. But this is good to know in case they do access these services in the future without telling me. Thanks for your well wishes!

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2016, 09:32:17 AM »
I really feel for you in this situation.  Family is all we really have in the end, and I can tell you are a kind and responsible person and you may not be able to live with yourself if you turn your back on your parents.   

I agree with Marion10:
Quote
I want to offer some perspective as a 50 something- I know I would find it very stressful to move to a new culture and adapt. I think it unrealistic to expect them to be self supporting in a month and be able to work for decades-until they are in their 70s.

I also wonder how easy it will be for them to find a rental apartment if they have no income or credit history.

I think you need a contingency plan for the worst-case scenario:
- Assume they never sell/successfully rent the old house
- Assume your parents are unable to find/keep full-time work
- Assume they are unable to get credit or rent/lease a home on their own without a co-signer.

If the worst case came to pass what would you be willing to do?   Where would you draw the line?   Thinking about that ahead of time, instead of in the urgency of the moment will help.

I have a sibling who has MS and has no family besides me.  Although at this time she still is earning income from work, if/when her disease progresses, she may need support.   If my sister needed help I would move her right in with me, add a room on to the house, etc.  I would make sure she always had food, shelter, medical care, and some fun times and companionship.  However, I would not incur any credit/liability for example co-sign for a lease on an apartment or co-sign a loan.

I have a general rule to NEVER loan money to Family or Friends.   I will GIVE them what I can afford to give at the moment, with no expectation of repayment.   

When I am asked for a loan (usually by my sons), I always say something like, "no, I cant loan you money for an apartment deposit...but you can crash here while you save up for it."   or "sorry, I cant commit to co-signing for your house - I need my credit to be perfect for a business loan I am applying for soon.   But I can give your some cash as a gift towards the down payment."  or "no, you cant charge that motorcycle part you saw online on my credit card...I have a low limit and need it to cover travel expenses. But if you have the cash now, I can help you put it on a debit card in your name that you can use online."       

I think I may have to co-sign an apartment lease with them since they won't have any credit history. Unfortunate, but it is what it is. I really appreciate all the advice about not loaning money to family and strategies for responding to requests for money. It's been a real learning curve for me. My contingency for plan for if things don't go according to plan is to take them in. We have limited space but we'll just have to make it work somehow. I've learned my lesson, and I will not be loaning them any money from now on.

Goldielocks

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2016, 09:34:14 AM »
I think this will work out.

One of the biggest helps you can give now, is to line up entry level jobs for them, starting two weeks after they arrive. I say entry as it will be hard to get your contacts to pay more than minimum wage, but it is a huge boost-- and they can make their own alternatives after arrival.


Even lining up interviews to get them started would be a 1000x more help than just money.

Get the SIN or work permit number setup the day after they arrive, too.

You don't need to co sign, secondary suites don't all need that here.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2016, 09:36:56 AM »
Thank you for your response. I agree with you about adapting to a new country/country. I'm young and I still struggled adapting to life here. It is tough and I expect it to be even tougher for them. I don't expect them to be self-supporting within a month. The BnB I reserved for them is for two months, and I'm going to help them find an apartment during that time. The plan is for them to have enough funds for at least the first 6 months here, and within that time period find a place to live, get jobs, and settle down. And I'm more than willing to help them settle by taking time off from work and driving them around, etc.

My mum does have some work experience. She worked for the government many years (decades) ago and in the last two years she worked for a non-profit org as a project officer. Other than that, she has mostly been a stay at home mom.

I also want the best for them and would never want to see them struggle. I'm just worried that I'll end up sacrificing my plans/life for other people. My DH and I have already given up on the idea of having kids because of our financially irresponsible parents. We know for sure that at some point we'll have to take care of both sets of parents because of their lack of financial planning/forward thinking, and involving kids in all of this would be unaffordable/unrealistic. What else do I have to sacrifice just so that my family is "comfortable"? FIRE at 40 is not something I'm willing to give up.
Two thoughts come to mind, in reference to the bolded sections above:
1) If past history is any indicator, your parents will arrive with no money.  I think it would be wise to ensure they sell the home before making the trip, to make sure they actually *have* money to support themselves for those first few months.
2) I want the best for my children, so I *do* want to see them struggle.  I don't mean to imply that your parents are immature, but that human nature is such that without discomfort, there is no motivation to change.

One of the biggest helps you can give now, is to line up entry level jobs for them, starting two weeks after they arrive. I say entry as it will be hard to get your contacts to pay more than minimum wage, but it is a huge boost-- and they can make their own alternatives after arrival.

Even lining up interviews to get them started would be a 1000x more help than just money.

Get the SIN or work permit number setup the day after they arrive, too.
I like this advice.  Get them started on the right foot right away!

Captain FIRE

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2016, 09:39:57 AM »
What else do I have to sacrifice just so that my family is "comfortable"? FIRE at 40 is not something I'm willing to give up.

This is entirely up to you.  All I can do is repeat what said earlier, that I am VERY skeptical that based on the cultural customs you've described, your family will take FIRE well.  Normal people find it hard, without cultural expectation of supporting their family.  As long as you are prepared for that shit storm (and worst case scenarios that they stop speaking to you and utilize Canada supports to the fullest extent to get back at you), then go full steam ahead.

Have you told your parents you are not having kids because of your concerns about needing to support them, as evidenced by (insert full history of things you've paid for and they haven't paid back).  This might get them to understand in a way they haven't yet.

Once your brother is on his feet, would he agree to help them?  As in, would he split any Canada tax bill you get with you?

Finally - nurture your relationship.  Make sure that even though he's ok with it now, he continues to remain ok.  Taking on this financial responsibility by sponsoring your parents is huge.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2016, 09:40:39 AM »
I think this will work out.

One of the biggest helps you can give now, is to line up entry level jobs for them, starting two weeks after they arrive. I say entry as it will be hard to get your contacts to pay more than minimum wage, but it is a huge boost-- and they can make their own alternatives after arrival.


Even lining up interviews to get them started would be a 1000x more help than just money.

Get the SIN or work permit number setup the day after they arrive, too.

You don't need to co sign, secondary suites don't all need that here.

Thanks for this. Yes, we'll get their SIN numbers asap, and they don't need work permits as they're arriving as permanent residents. In terms of lining up interviews for them, I'm not sure how to go about that. I don't have any contacts to be honest. I work for a relatively small company and I've never been good at networking (I'm very introverted and struggled for years adapting to Canadian culture). But the plan is to go to immigrant service providers and employment agencies to get them started.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2016, 09:52:36 AM »
Thank you for your response. I agree with you about adapting to a new country/country. I'm young and I still struggled adapting to life here. It is tough and I expect it to be even tougher for them. I don't expect them to be self-supporting within a month. The BnB I reserved for them is for two months, and I'm going to help them find an apartment during that time. The plan is for them to have enough funds for at least the first 6 months here, and within that time period find a place to live, get jobs, and settle down. And I'm more than willing to help them settle by taking time off from work and driving them around, etc.

My mum does have some work experience. She worked for the government many years (decades) ago and in the last two years she worked for a non-profit org as a project officer. Other than that, she has mostly been a stay at home mom.

I also want the best for them and would never want to see them struggle. I'm just worried that I'll end up sacrificing my plans/life for other people. My DH and I have already given up on the idea of having kids because of our financially irresponsible parents. We know for sure that at some point we'll have to take care of both sets of parents because of their lack of financial planning/forward thinking, and involving kids in all of this would be unaffordable/unrealistic. What else do I have to sacrifice just so that my family is "comfortable"? FIRE at 40 is not something I'm willing to give up.
Two thoughts come to mind, in reference to the bolded sections above:
1) If past history is any indicator, your parents will arrive with no money.  I think it would be wise to ensure they sell the home before making the trip, to make sure they actually *have* money to support themselves for those first few months.
2) I want the best for my children, so I *do* want to see them struggle.  I don't mean to imply that your parents are immature, but that human nature is such that without discomfort, there is no motivation to change.

One of the biggest helps you can give now, is to line up entry level jobs for them, starting two weeks after they arrive. I say entry as it will be hard to get your contacts to pay more than minimum wage, but it is a huge boost-- and they can make their own alternatives after arrival.

Even lining up interviews to get them started would be a 1000x more help than just money.

Get the SIN or work permit number setup the day after they arrive, too.
I like this advice.  Get them started on the right foot right away!

This is some pretty tough advice. There is no way for me to ensure they sell the house. I (they) have no control over the market and like I said, it's been up for sale for two years. I'm not sure I'm okay with having them struggle. Living in Zimbabwe alone is a major "discomfort". I don't want to go into detail about what life is like there, but to have them struggle in Canada would be very hard for me to deal with. But I do acknowledge that I need to stop being a pushover and draw a line somewhere. I've honestly taken in all the advice I've been given, and I will not loan them any more money. Rather, I will help them in non-financial ways as advised.  Thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate it!

tonysemail

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #73 on: September 22, 2016, 10:01:39 AM »
I have a general rule to NEVER loan money to Family or Friends.   I will GIVE them what I can afford to give at the moment, with no expectation of repayment.   

agreed.  this was a hard lesson for me too.  it's twisted, but at least for my parents, loans to non-family were more important to pay back compared to loans to family.  SMH.
The irony finally hit me a few years back.
For them, they like borrowing from kids because they can always default on a loan and we'll still talk to them.
Whereas I think of myself more as the lender of last resort ... after all other options were exhausted.


My DH and I have already given up on the idea of having kids because of our financially irresponsible parents. We know for sure that at some point we'll have to take care of both sets of parents because of their lack of financial planning/forward thinking, and involving kids in all of this would be unaffordable/unrealistic.

I'm sorry to hear that you guys are so impacted by financial worries.  The only thing I would say is stay optimistic!
You're still quite young at 26 and if you're working in private sector, then you might be earning big raises in the next decade.
When I was 26, I had NO clue how much I'd be making at 36. 
Plenty of people have kids at the ages of 30-36, so see how things go the next few years and it may go a lot better than what your plan to FIRE says!

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #74 on: September 22, 2016, 10:03:02 AM »
What else do I have to sacrifice just so that my family is "comfortable"? FIRE at 40 is not something I'm willing to give up.

This is entirely up to you.  All I can do is repeat what said earlier, that I am VERY skeptical that based on the cultural customs you've described, your family will take FIRE well.  Normal people find it hard, without cultural expectation of supporting their family.  As long as you are prepared for that shit storm (and worst case scenarios that they stop speaking to you and utilize Canada supports to the fullest extent to get back at you), then go full steam ahead.

Have you told your parents you are not having kids because of your concerns about needing to support them, as evidenced by (insert full history of things you've paid for and they haven't paid back).  This might get them to understand in a way they haven't yet.

Once your brother is on his feet, would he agree to help them?  As in, would he split any Canada tax bill you get with you?

Finally - nurture your relationship.  Make sure that even though he's ok with it now, he continues to remain ok.  Taking on this financial responsibility by sponsoring your parents is huge.

I haven't told my parents (or his parents) that we aren't having kids because of them. That seems like a very mean/malicious thing to say. Both sets of parents want grandkids, and it would be awful to tell them that. I've thought about it, though.

My brother would definitely help with taking care of our parents. He's kind hearted and not as selfish as I am. I'm sure he would work til he's 65 for our parents. He is, however, jaded by the sums of money he lent them in the past while earning very little back home and never got back. But like me, he's grateful (feels guilty) that they paid for his undergrad degree and feels he owes a debt to them.

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #75 on: September 22, 2016, 10:10:42 AM »
Maybe you can ask them to send you the plane ticket money to put it towards BnB. You can tell them you don't have money to reserve it. At least that would ensure 1-2 months rent. Don't be afraid of white lies to get their money. You can hold on to the money to make sure it doesn't get spent on unnecessary things. Since they have sold a lot of their stuff, they should have money to send you for the tickets.

SKL-HOU

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #76 on: September 22, 2016, 10:12:49 AM »

I haven't told my parents (or his parents) that we aren't having kids because of them. That seems like a very mean/malicious thing to say. Both sets of parents want grandkids, and it would be awful to tell them that. I've thought about it, though.


You don't have to tell them in those words. You can tell them you aren't having kids because you cannot afford it. Maybe that will get them thinking about not being an extra burden on you.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #77 on: September 22, 2016, 10:17:34 AM »
Maybe you can ask them to send you the plane ticket money to put it towards BnB. You can tell them you don't have money to reserve it. At least that would ensure 1-2 months rent. Don't be afraid of white lies to get their money. You can hold on to the money to make sure it doesn't get spent on unnecessary things. Since they have sold a lot of their stuff, they should have money to send you for the tickets.

Yes, this is true. When I last spoke to my mum she told me that they had sold quite a bit of stuff and that someone else was going to buy their cars and other stuff for $10k.  So they should have the money to pay me back for the tickets. I know this sounds silly, but I haven't spoken to them since then because I'm waiting for my mum to contact me first. I feel that if I casually talk to her like we usually do, she will think I'm okay with the fact that they haven't paid me back. When I made the BnB reservation, I told them that I only made the reservation on their behalf and that they will pay cash when they arrive. I haven't been charged for the BnB at all.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #78 on: September 22, 2016, 10:24:27 AM »
I have a general rule to NEVER loan money to Family or Friends.   I will GIVE them what I can afford to give at the moment, with no expectation of repayment.   

agreed.  this was a hard lesson for me too.  it's twisted, but at least for my parents, loans to non-family were more important to pay back compared to loans to family.  SMH.
The irony finally hit me a few years back.
For them, they like borrowing from kids because they can always default on a loan and we'll still talk to them.
Whereas I think of myself more as the lender of last resort ... after all other options were exhausted.


My DH and I have already given up on the idea of having kids because of our financially irresponsible parents. We know for sure that at some point we'll have to take care of both sets of parents because of their lack of financial planning/forward thinking, and involving kids in all of this would be unaffordable/unrealistic.

I'm sorry to hear that you guys are so impacted by financial worries.  The only thing I would say is stay optimistic!
You're still quite young at 26 and if you're working in private sector, then you might be earning big raises in the next decade.
When I was 26, I had NO clue how much I'd be making at 36. 
Plenty of people have kids at the ages of 30-36, so see how things go the next few years and it may go a lot better than what your plan to FIRE says!

Maybe we are being a bit dramatic about the kids thing. I just never want to be the type of parent that's not present for my child because I'm at work for 50 hours of the week. But yes, I'm optimistic about pay raises in the future as I've already received a promotion and I plan on steadily working my way up. And yes, when I'm 30 I'll probably have a different outlook on things and may even consider having children. I'm just trying to deal with my present reality and plan accordingly with what I have/know now. Thanks for the optimism!!!

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #79 on: September 22, 2016, 10:25:32 AM »

I haven't told my parents (or his parents) that we aren't having kids because of them. That seems like a very mean/malicious thing to say. Both sets of parents want grandkids, and it would be awful to tell them that. I've thought about it, though.


You don't have to tell them in those words. You can tell them you aren't having kids because you cannot afford it. Maybe that will get them thinking about not being an extra burden on you.

This seems like a better approach. I'll tell them the next time they inquire about grandkids :-)

K-ice

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #80 on: September 22, 2016, 10:27:46 AM »
But like me, he's grateful (feels guilty) that they paid for his undergrad degree and feels he owes a debt to them.


This undergrad debt guilt has come up again.  Not just you but also your bro.

When your parents arrive why don't you have a frank discussion and say your are very grateful for their past support for your degree.

You would like to slowly pay back the $40,000 they "gave" to you over time.  Check this plan with DH too. It sounds like you are going to basically pay them back anyway. You might as well budget for it yourself and with them.

It begins with the bills you have recently accumulated, totaling xx, & probably a security deposit on their permanent rental etc.  (over $7,000 I think).


You would then be able to support them with an allowance of, IDK lets say, $500 a month until they get on their feet.

You do not have access to any more funds at this time, but if an emergency arises you would try to come up with money.

Once the $40K is gone they are on their own.  (Sure you are still tied to them due to the sponsorship but try not to focus on that.) 

It is great that your mom is looking for work. Your dad should look into ways for his trade to be accepted here. There are courses for immigrants to "upgrade". Would your Dad be good at Homedepot or something where his trade knowledge is an asset but no further Canadian training is required?   

If they are doing so well that they want to stop the "support/debt repayment" payments from you great.  Just keep what is left of your $40K debt in the back of your mind & share the value with the. Let them know you have always mentally put it aside to help in the future.

Let them know the entire situation has changed without the sale of their property and that you CANNOT FULLY SUPPORT them. They must find reasonably priced accommodation and BOTH find work.

But having family close is priceless. So I am wishing you all the best.



Miss Piggy

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2016, 10:39:04 AM »
Out of curiosity, not related to your actual question: The older brother who earned a degree in South Africa...is that the same brother who now wants to earn a degree in Canada? Is is original degree not marketable at all? How disappointing if that's the case. Or does he simply want to change direction and study/do something else? If he's thinking his degree is not marketable, what makes him think that? I mean, we have doctors in the U.S. who have bachelor's degrees from places all over the world, and those degrees were perfectly acceptable. (Granted, they then went on to more schooling.)  Large corporations in the U.S. are "all over" the diversity thing and many would be excited to interview an educated person from South Africa. Is the same not true in Canada? Like I said, I'm just curious.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2016, 10:49:52 AM »
Out of curiosity, not related to your actual question: The older brother who earned a degree in South Africa...is that the same brother who now wants to earn a degree in Canada? Is is original degree not marketable at all? How disappointing if that's the case. Or does he simply want to change direction and study/do something else? If he's thinking his degree is not marketable, what makes him think that? I mean, we have doctors in the U.S. who have bachelor's degrees from places all over the world, and those degrees were perfectly acceptable. (Granted, they then went on to more schooling.)  Large corporations in the U.S. are "all over" the diversity thing and many would be excited to interview an educated person from South Africa. Is the same not true in Canada? Like I said, I'm just curious.

Yes, this is the same brother. He has an undergrad degree in accounting, and is taking a post-grad diploma in accounting. This course meets the pre-requisites to become a CPA, which is his ultimate goal. The reason he's studying again is because it's easier to get permanent residency after being a student and gaining work experience here. As it stands, he doesn't have enough points (or funds) to immigrate to Canada directly. We have a points-based immigration system that is determined by skills, qualifications, years of experience, proof of adequate funds, etc. He presently doesn't meet the minimum criteria for economic immigration. It's also much harder for foreigners to get jobs while outside of Canada due to strict government rules regarding hiring foreigners over Canadians.  It's very hard to get a work permit if one is not in a very specialized industry. I hope that makes sense.

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #83 on: September 22, 2016, 10:51:40 AM »
Yes, this is the same brother. He has an undergrad degree in accounting, and is taking a post-grad diploma in accounting. This course meets the pre-requisites to become a CPA, which is his ultimate goal. The reason he's studying again is because it's easier to get permanent residency after being a student and gaining work experience here. As it stands, he doesn't have enough points (or funds) to immigrate to Canada directly. We have a points-based immigration system that is determined by skills, qualifications, years of experience, proof of adequate funds, etc. He presently doesn't meet the minimum criteria for economic immigration. It's also much harder for foreigners to get jobs while outside of Canada due to strict government rules regarding hiring foreigners over Canadians.  It's very hard to get a work permit if one is not in a very specialized industry. I hope that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense. Thank you for the explanation!

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #84 on: September 22, 2016, 10:54:41 AM »
But like me, he's grateful (feels guilty) that they paid for his undergrad degree and feels he owes a debt to them.


This undergrad debt guilt has come up again.  Not just you but also your bro.

When your parents arrive why don't you have a frank discussion and say your are very grateful for their past support for your degree.

You would like to slowly pay back the $40,000 they "gave" to you over time.  Check this plan with DH too. It sounds like you are going to basically pay them back anyway. You might as well budget for it yourself and with them.

It begins with the bills you have recently accumulated, totaling xx, & probably a security deposit on their permanent rental etc.  (over $7,000 I think).


You would then be able to support them with an allowance of, IDK lets say, $500 a month until they get on their feet.

You do not have access to any more funds at this time, but if an emergency arises you would try to come up with money.

Once the $40K is gone they are on their own.  (Sure you are still tied to them due to the sponsorship but try not to focus on that.) 

It is great that your mom is looking for work. Your dad should look into ways for his trade to be accepted here. There are courses for immigrants to "upgrade". Would your Dad be good at Homedepot or something where his trade knowledge is an asset but no further Canadian training is required?   

If they are doing so well that they want to stop the "support/debt repayment" payments from you great.  Just keep what is left of your $40K debt in the back of your mind & share the value with the. Let them know you have always mentally put it aside to help in the future.

Let them know the entire situation has changed without the sale of their property and that you CANNOT FULLY SUPPORT them. They must find reasonably priced accommodation and BOTH find work.

But having family close is priceless. So I am wishing you all the best.

This is very interesting advice. Very different from what others have said about not giving my parents any more money. I need to mull over this option a bit.

markstache

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2016, 11:07:27 AM »
Plenty of good advice. I'd like to help you get out of a psychological trap. The house is not worth $800k. The house is worth precisely what someone is willing to pay for it. Last year, that might have been something in the $600k range. This year, it might be less than that. If you hold on to the house with the idea that you could get $800k for it at some point in the future, you are speculating.[\b] Would your parents buy the house today for even $500k? If not, sell it for $500k. Hope this helps.

dougules

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #86 on: September 22, 2016, 11:14:42 AM »
Sorry, it sounds like you're in a tough spot.  It's awesome that you're trying to help your parents out. 

I'm assuming the country your parents are coming from is way lower cost of living than Canada, right?   How much would it cost to support them completely on a modest budget if they weren't in Canada?  An idea is to figure up that amount, and if you can swing it, tell them that you can give them that much every month forever.  Tell them Canada's expensive, and that's all you can do.  I also completely agree with letting them know how expensive it to have grandkids in Canada.

The point is if they don't find a way to support themselves in Canada, they would have to go back home where supporting them is less expensive.  (I'm assuming that wouldn't just mean a big bill from the government for support).  And it would be harder for them to get up in your business. 
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 11:16:13 AM by dougules »

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #87 on: September 22, 2016, 11:15:55 AM »
Plenty of good advice. I'd like to help you get out of a psychological trap. The house is not worth $800k. The house is worth precisely what someone is willing to pay for it. Last year, that might have been something in the $600k range. This year, it might be less than that. If you hold on to the house with the idea that you could get $800k for it at some point in the future, you are speculating.[\b] Would your parents buy the house today for even $500k? If not, sell it for $500k. Hope this helps.

I know; hence why I initially put the statement in quotation marks. I've been trying to tell them that for the longest time but they have their own ideas. To be honest, with the current economic situation, that house should really sell for $400k. I don't know how else to convey this to them... Sigh.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #88 on: September 22, 2016, 11:25:00 AM »
Sorry, it sounds like you're in a tough spot.  It's awesome that you're trying to help your parents out. 

I'm assuming the country your parents are coming from is way lower cost of living than Canada, right?   How much would it cost to support them completely on a modest budget if they weren't in Canada?  An idea is to figure up that amount, and if you can swing it, tell them that you can give them that much every month forever.  Tell them Canada's expensive, and that's all you can do.  I also completely agree with letting them know how expensive it to have grandkids in Canada.

The point is if they don't find a way to support themselves in Canada, they would have to go back home where supporting them is less expensive.  (I'm assuming that wouldn't just mean a big bill from the government for support).  And it would be harder for them to get up in your business.

I have considered this. Staying in Zimbabwe would be much more affordable than Canada. $500 per month should be more than enough. The reason why I want them to come to Canada is so that I don't have to give them that money every month. I want them to be independent and not have to rely on monthly handouts (they want this too, despite them not paying me back). Here they can theoretically work and support themselves, whereas back home, that is not an option due to the economy. If they can't be self-supporting after some years here, I agree that the best option would be for them to go back home. However, Zimbabwe isn't a good place to live if you aren't well off, and it would also be much harder to care for them in their old age if they are so far away. The overall idea is to have my family close, in a country where they can have a decent quality of life. I was just hoping that it wouldn't involve me footing the bill.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #89 on: September 22, 2016, 03:25:31 PM »
Quote
This is some pretty tough advice. There is no way for me to ensure they sell the house. I (they) have no control over the market and like I said, it's been up for sale for two years.
Yes, we know it's a tough situation.  And it's emotionally difficult to take a loss when selling a property.  But markstache is right--if they're unwilling to sell the house for $685k (or whatever it's worth now), then they're expecting it to appreciate dramatically, i.e. they're speculating.  Or, in other words, they are choosing to invest several hundred thousand dollars in a non-liquid asset.

Yes, there is a way for you to ensure that they encourage them to sell the house before immigrating:  cancel the plane tickets.  I know this sounds really harsh and mean and all sorts of nasty things, but keep in mind that you are doing them a huge service in sponsoring their immigration.  You are also putting yourself at great risk in the process.  I don't think it's unreasonable, given the risk you're taking and the benefit you're providing, that you place conditions on this enormous gift you're giving, simply to protect yourself.

Of course, your parents could buy their own plane tickets and show up on your doorstep, but again, given the history, that situation seems unlikely.

totoro

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #90 on: September 22, 2016, 06:12:07 PM »
Well, to be contrary and having experience with relatives in third world countries, helping your parents in this situation is different than the typical NA scenario, particularly where they have helped you out with school and provided you with a lot of opportunity in the past.  And the failure of business and loss of RE value in Zimbabwe is largely due to external forces if I understand the situation correctly.  Your parents unmet promises are not good but perhaps understandable from a cultural perspective where they still view themselves as undergoing a temporary setback.  If it was your kids you'd be moving heaven and earth to get them to Canada and putting all your resources into trying for a successful launch.  I don't think delaying ER is unreasonable if the purpose is to create a successful transition for your parents if possible.  Unless there is serious dysfunction and lack of caring on the part of the parents I'd tend to view this as a family systems/taking care of each other issue that does not fit the lens of pure financial analysis and loss of advantage/taking advantage of others.

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #91 on: September 22, 2016, 06:35:31 PM »
I think this will work out.

One of the biggest helps you can give now, is to line up entry level jobs for them, starting two weeks after they arrive. I say entry as it will be hard to get your contacts to pay more than minimum wage, but it is a huge boost-- and they can make their own alternatives after arrival.


Even lining up interviews to get them started would be a 1000x more help than just money.

Get the SIN or work permit number setup the day after they arrive, too.

You don't need to co sign, secondary suites don't all need that here.

Thanks for this. Yes, we'll get their SIN numbers asap, and they don't need work permits as they're arriving as permanent residents. In terms of lining up interviews for them, I'm not sure how to go about that. I don't have any contacts to be honest. I work for a relatively small company and I've never been good at networking (I'm very introverted and struggled for years adapting to Canadian culture). But the plan is to go to immigrant service providers and employment agencies to get them started.

Go to those employment assistance places now and ask questions, then. Find out the consistent employers looking for entry workers, then make an appointment at those employers to describe your situation and ask them for advice or to hold an interview slot.

I would also reach out to security guard firms, office cleaning ( large maintenance companies), and others that you see near you that hire new immigrants above board. Ask to meet with HR in person, and just ask everyone you meet. Put a note on your apartment bulletin board. 'New immigrant with PR seeks Work, call...".etc.

It is a LOT of legwork, that your parents will want to put off after they arrive, so if you can start it now, before, do so.



Bicycle_B

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #92 on: September 22, 2016, 08:48:48 PM »

The social benefits do not include healthcare. They are entitled to healthcare just like any other Canadian citizen or permanent resident. Canada is meant to be a better option for them as they are still young (mid 50s) and the country would provide them with an opportunity to work for a few decades and be independent again. Back home there is 90% unemployment and the economy contracts every year and the government is sketchy, so it's hard to run a business.

I realize I'm taking a huge gamble by expecting them to actually sell the house, invest the money wisely, and find work here in Canada.

I see your logic.  Not covering health care reduces the risk.  And you are giving them an opportunity. 

Good luck with your gamble.  Glad to see in other posts that you are figuring out what to do if doesn't happen.

dess1313

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #93 on: September 22, 2016, 11:27:26 PM »
This is a great book to consider reading.  she's also canadian as well!
http://www.gailvazoxlade.com/
The book is called "Money Talks" - When to Say Yes and How to Say No.

Primm

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #94 on: September 23, 2016, 04:37:34 AM »
With regard to the house, are you sure that your parents will be able to get the money out even if they sell?

My sister was married to a Zimbabwean. They moved to the UK before they sold their property at Vic Falls. Once it sold the money went into their Zim bank account, no problems.

Except, they can't withdraw it. They have been back a couple of times and get the maximum amount out each time, but that's pretty minimal (maybe $1000 USD?. I can't exactly remember).

So yeah, just maybe look into whether the money can leave the country even if they do manage to sell, without them having to wait until El Presidento finally bites the dust (and assuming there isn't someone equally as corrupt and money-hungry waiting in the wings, which is a pretty big assumption.

ooeei

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #95 on: September 23, 2016, 08:46:27 AM »
I think your solution is simple, but not easy.  You have to have tough conversations with your parents, and not roll over to prevent them from experiencing any discomfort. 

You're the one helping them here, it's not unreasonable for you to set a few ground rules.  "My house, my rules" except it's more like "My money, my rules."  It's very reasonable for you to expect them to sell the house before moving, as once they move they lose control of it.  If the country is in as bad of shape as you say it is, I wouldn't be surprised if the tenant just quit paying them, or squatters moved in.  What would they do then?

They think the house is worth $800k or whatever because that's what it was worth a few years ago.  You're going to have to tell them that it's NON NEGOTIABLE to sell the house before they move over here, despite what they think it's worth.  If someone pays $300k for it, that's what they get for it.  If they want to wait for some future price increase, they can wait there, but not in Canada with no money.

You have to be able to put your foot down, unless you want them making your financial decisions for you for the rest of their lives.  What are you going to do when they ask you for food money, but just leased a new car or ate at fancy restaurants the first 2 weeks of the month?

Fishindude

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #96 on: September 23, 2016, 09:09:58 AM »
It doesn't require a psychic to see that this situation has a very high probability of turning out badly for you.
Kudos for taking care of your folks, but you are at significant risk here, so keep them on a short leash.

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2016, 09:15:11 AM »
Well, to be contrary and having experience with relatives in third world countries, helping your parents in this situation is different than the typical NA scenario, particularly where they have helped you out with school and provided you with a lot of opportunity in the past.  And the failure of business and loss of RE value in Zimbabwe is largely due to external forces if I understand the situation correctly.  Your parents unmet promises are not good but perhaps understandable from a cultural perspective where they still view themselves as undergoing a temporary setback.  If it was your kids you'd be moving heaven and earth to get them to Canada and putting all your resources into trying for a successful launch.  I don't think delaying ER is unreasonable if the purpose is to create a successful transition for your parents if possible.  Unless there is serious dysfunction and lack of caring on the part of the parents I'd tend to view this as a family systems/taking care of each other issue that does not fit the lens of pure financial analysis and loss of advantage/taking advantage of others.

+1. I understand that this is more of a cultural/personal issue. I was just hoping to get advice from a mustachian point of view because while I do have a different cultural background, I am still a mustachian and I value FIRE principles (the immigrant dilemma of being too foreign for here and too foreign for home at the same time). Just trying to strike a balance here. I really appreciate your ability to view things from a "third world" perspective as well. Makes me feel a little less crazy!

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #98 on: September 23, 2016, 09:18:23 AM »
I think this will work out.

One of the biggest helps you can give now, is to line up entry level jobs for them, starting two weeks after they arrive. I say entry as it will be hard to get your contacts to pay more than minimum wage, but it is a huge boost-- and they can make their own alternatives after arrival.


Even lining up interviews to get them started would be a 1000x more help than just money.

Get the SIN or work permit number setup the day after they arrive, too.

You don't need to co sign, secondary suites don't all need that here.

Thanks for this. Yes, we'll get their SIN numbers asap, and they don't need work permits as they're arriving as permanent residents. In terms of lining up interviews for them, I'm not sure how to go about that. I don't have any contacts to be honest. I work for a relatively small company and I've never been good at networking (I'm very introverted and struggled for years adapting to Canadian culture). But the plan is to go to immigrant service providers and employment agencies to get them started.

Go to those employment assistance places now and ask questions, then. Find out the consistent employers looking for entry workers, then make an appointment at those employers to describe your situation and ask them for advice or to hold an interview slot.

I would also reach out to security guard firms, office cleaning ( large maintenance companies), and others that you see near you that hire new immigrants above board. Ask to meet with HR in person, and just ask everyone you meet. Put a note on your apartment bulletin board. 'New immigrant with PR seeks Work, call...".etc.

It is a LOT of legwork, that your parents will want to put off after they arrive, so if you can start it now, before, do so.

Thanks very much!

MrsPotato

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Re: HELP!!! Dealing with Financially Irresponsible/Dependent Parents
« Reply #99 on: September 23, 2016, 09:19:14 AM »
This is a great book to consider reading.  she's also canadian as well!
http://www.gailvazoxlade.com/
The book is called "Money Talks" - When to Say Yes and How to Say No.

Thanks! Much appreciated!