The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: blizeH on October 07, 2014, 07:51:28 AM
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I'm just curious really... I'm so close to pulling the trigger, but worry that I'll end up regretting it somewhere down the line (missing the routine, social aspects etc) and possibly almost become unemployable
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Consider becoming a SWAMI if you like your job.
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SWAMI... had to Google that one! Sounds intriguing but really, due to a number of reasons I'm finding my job to be rather soul destroying recently (I have very low confidence which causes issues, and also an abundance of bureaucracy seems to be taking over) - it's just the social side of it that I would miss, and I also quite like a routine (and I guess the regular guaranteed income is nice too!)
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SWAMI: Satisfied Working Advanced Mustachian Individual
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/30/weekend-edition-retire-in-your-mind-even-if-you-love-your-job/
Translation: If you have a financial cushion use that FU money to quit, find something you enjoy more, and get the social side and routine you enjoy.
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I believe the worry of regret is a very natural and common response from those about to RE, yet after a decompression period of 1-6 months, almost no early retiree seems to have any regrets. True, a few go back to work, but they seem to get jobs on their terms with much less corporate BS than their former positions. If you go back to 2008, I am sure there were plenty of retirees second guessing their decision to retire, but for the most part, as long as they did not panic and sell, these folks are doing just fine.
For some strange reason, I keep worrying about missing out on expensive hobby or travel related items as I approach ER. Although I have never really felt like I needed these things, my income would have allowed for them if I had. Once I pull the ER trigger, they will not be an option unless I raid the stache' or go back to work. So really, I guess I am really worried about is being limited once I retire, but the truth is the biggest limit there is (time) is being removed!
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All of these worries can be addressed by volunteering, which carries the additional benefit of a feeling of fulfillment. I don't get why this isn't people's first thought when they retire. The only reason I'm not sure about it is because I DONT like the routine or the social aspect of working!
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I believe the worry of regret is a very natural and common response from those about to RE, yet after a decompression period of 1-6 months, almost no early retiree seems to have any regrets.
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For some strange reason, I keep worrying about missing out on expensive hobby or travel related items as I approach ER. Although I have never really felt like I needed these things, my income would have allowed for them if I had. Once I pull the ER trigger, they will not be an option unless I raid the stache' or go back to work. So really, I guess I am really worried about is being limited once I retire, but the truth is the biggest limit there is (time) is being removed!
I've read articles where something like 73% of people in their 50's say they plan to work until they are 70, but the labor statistics show only something like 27% of 67 year olds have jobs. To your point about "no regrets", it seems like for the old folks, that does indeed seem to be the case: they retire and stay retired, regardless of earlier plans. ER / EER, like people in their 30's and 40's are so much more rare that I suspect there's hardly any good research beyond anecdotal, such as MMM and a few other bloggers who are happy. That could be some confirmation bias though, because somebody who retired early at 40 and isn't happy is not likely to tell anyone that they think they screwed up and are unhappy.
I totally hear you on the issue of money, time, and hobbies. I love to travel, I love flying (used to own an ultralight), and bicycling in new places is also a passion of mine. All of those things cost money and can take a lot of time to do it right. Right now I'm working full time, so I really don't have the time for hobbies. Mathematically, I could reach ER at one given point, say 10 years from now, but then I might have the time for hobbies, but not the money. That seems like torture to have all the time in the world, but no money to actually do anything! At least aside from flying, you can do a lot of travel and bicycling for $5000/year, and if you're saving $50,000/year, you only need to work another few years to secure an extra $5000 of income. As a result, my more pessimistic ER view shows me possibly working 13 years, but with a lot more promise of being able to do money-intensive activities in exchange for that extra 3 years of work.
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Just semi-FIRE'd earlier this year.......since I quit somewhat abruptly and did not entertain FIRE beforehand.....only after I took a closer look at my finances and began reading stuff like MMM.
But, that's the nice thing about it ....... if you regret it, you'll know within 6-12 months and can change your mind.....you're young after all.
After 7 months with no job, I still have not made up my mind. I have not ruled out staying FIRE'd, but am, on a low-stress basis, looking for that SWAMI job. If I find it, great, if not, then I will really need to add more structure to my time.....doing that slowly.
Only issue is that my wife is not convinced on the total finance picture. Have to work on that to show the "need" to work would be working for non-necessities.
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Just keep working for a an extra year or two, but be retired in your mind. I look at work now more as entertainment. Watching all the nutjobs working in thier cubes, sucking up to the management. I like it when my boss gets all huffy and puffy acting like he can tell me what to do (requesting something unreasonable) and when I tell him I'm not going to do it, he doesn't have an answer - just walks away in frustration. Priceless. You can't buy entertainment like this.
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Every morning that I wake up (after yet another incredible night's sleep) and realize that I don't have to go to work, with it's required slog through rush hour traffic etc and it's myriad of other distasteful aspects... and when I get up and check my investments and realize that another couple of hundred bucks of dividends has been magically transferred into my accounts - well, it's an amazing feeling. Even the ability to enjoy a good cup of coffee, instead of guzzling it down on the way out the door at 5:30am is special. Then I have the entire day to pursue whatever exploits I choose.
I basically want to scream with joyous exultation every morning.
So, no... not regretting it. ;)
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Just keep working for a an extra year or two, but be retired in your mind. I look at work now more as entertainment. Watching all the nutjobs working in thier cubes, sucking up to the management. I like it when my boss gets all huffy and puffy acting like he can tell me what to do (requesting something unreasonable) and when I tell him I'm not going to do it, he doesn't have an answer - just walks away in frustration. Priceless. You can't buy entertainment like this.
Beautiful. That is the mindset I will have if I return to a similar job. Fortunately and unfortunately, in my previous job 1/3 to 1/2 of total pay was discretionary, i.e. bonus, so had to maintain a sound relationship with the boss. Low bonus was their tool.
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When I was working on my MBA, I read a Harvard Business Review article that talked about "Go to Hell" money. The idea being that as long as you have enough saved that you could quit abruptly (e.g., Go to hell, I'm out'a here!), then suddenly some of the bureaucratic nonsense we put up with on a daily basis becomes much more tolerable. After all, with the financial cushion in place we are fully in control and can quit at any time.
In short, having the "Go to Hell" money makes it easier to be a SWAMI, even if you're 100% satisfied with the work environment.
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Every morning that I wake up (after yet another incredible night's sleep) and realize that I don't have to go to work, with it's required slog through rush hour traffic etc and it's myriad of other distasteful aspects... and when I get up and check my investments and realize that another couple of hundred bucks of dividends has been magically transferred into my accounts - well, it's an amazing feeling. Even the ability to enjoy a good cup of coffee, instead of guzzling it down on the way out the door at 5:30am is special. Then I have the entire day to pursue whatever exploits I choose.
I basically want to scream with joyous exultation every morning.
So, no... not regretting it. ;)
+1
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Every morning that I wake up (after yet another incredible night's sleep) and realize that I don't have to go to work, with it's required slog through rush hour traffic etc and it's myriad of other distasteful aspects... and when I get up and check my investments and realize that another couple of hundred bucks of dividends has been magically transferred into my accounts - well, it's an amazing feeling. Even the ability to enjoy a good cup of coffee, instead of guzzling it down on the way out the door at 5:30am is special. Then I have the entire day to pursue whatever exploits I choose.
I basically want to scream with joyous exultation every morning.
So, no... not regretting it. ;)
I love your posts lately Jon! :)
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Thanks Eric!
A lot of my posts will be detailing what FIRE'd life can actually look and feel like. Hope it helps to inspire those who follow me in the path to FIRE.
I can tell you that it doesn't suck. ;)
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Just keep working for a an extra year or two, but be retired in your mind. I look at work now more as entertainment. Watching all the nutjobs working in thier cubes, sucking up to the management. I like it when my boss gets all huffy and puffy acting like he can tell me what to do (requesting something unreasonable) and when I tell him I'm not going to do it, he doesn't have an answer - just walks away in frustration. Priceless. You can't buy entertainment like this.
That made me laugh
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Nope - no regrets. Like my Wonder Twin Jon Snow, I also retired at 42 and have appreciated everyday since (over 10 years now). I too wake up with an almost exalted feeling and sense of wonder and joy at having the freedom from work - and have felt that way every single day since I ER'd. Have never felt the need or desire to go back to work at all - as a matter of fact I have become even more stanchly protective of my FIRE status and would probably go to some pretty great lengths to keep it.
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I have to note....not only wake up feeling ready for the day, but having slept well.....not tossing and turning wondering what bob or jim or sally thinks about x, y or z.
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Definitely doesn't suck.. I have 7 months of experience and went back to work for the last 5 weeks.. that doesn't suck either but I certainly won't be sorry to leave it behind again once the work dries up..:)
Frank
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I don't sleep for shit. But my super long breakfasts with good things sizzling in my cast iron while I crank up awesome music? Priceless.
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I believe the worry of regret is a very natural and common response from those about to RE, yet after a decompression period of 1-6 months, almost no early retiree seems to have any regrets. True, a few go back to work, but they seem to get jobs on their terms with much less corporate BS than their former positions. If you go back to 2008, I am sure there were plenty of retirees second guessing their decision to retire, but for the most part, as long as they did not panic and sell, these folks are doing just fine.
For some strange reason, I keep worrying about missing out on expensive hobby or travel related items as I approach ER. Although I have never really felt like I needed these things, my income would have allowed for them if I had. Once I pull the ER trigger, they will not be an option unless I raid the stache' or go back to work. So really, I guess I am really worried about is being limited once I retire, but the truth is the biggest limit there is (time) is being removed!
+1. Extremely well stated.
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Thank you all so much for the replies! Unsurprisingly when I wrote that post I was at a particularly low point with regards my job, but predictably it was promptly followed by a good day so I'm feeling better about things now :) One thing I'm really happy to see is that plenty of people have given up work and loved it! I really think/hope I will be one of these people.
With regards to going back to work, my main problem with that is that this job right now is pretty much perfect for me in a lot of ways - I like the people, I get to play lots of sports (football 3 times a week, badminton twice), it's super close (just 5 minutes on a bike, plus there are showers at work) and whilst the work is challenging at times my boss and team are actually all really supportive/nice... really, I don't think I'd ever want another job after this one.
One thing I like that was mentioned above is to simply carry on mostly as I am, but safe in the knowledge that I don't need this job... my boss is really nice and flexible with things so I'm not sure I'd need the 'FU money' so to speak, but it's nice to be in the position where if it all becomes too much, I have an easy way out.
Another suggestion I liked was to treat myself with the money from the job... if I want a new car, I can easily justify it, if I want a new phone, I can easily justify it... though realistically I'm more than happy with my bike right now, and tempting as the Sony Z3C is, my Galaxy S3 is still going strong! Most of my investments are in boring old index funds, and I want to focus on those, but maybe that can be where I spend my 'treat' money on - picking some stocks and hoping they come good :)
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Thank you all so much for the replies! Unsurprisingly when I wrote that post I was at a particularly low point with regards my job, but predictably it was promptly followed by a good day so I'm feeling better about things now :) One thing I'm really happy to see is that plenty of people have given up work and loved it! I really think/hope I will be one of these people.
With regards to going back to work, my main problem with that is that this job right now is pretty much perfect for me in a lot of ways - I like the people, I get to play lots of sports (football 3 times a week, badminton twice), it's super close (just 5 minutes on a bike, plus there are showers at work) and whilst the work is challenging at times my boss and team are actually all really supportive/nice... really, I don't think I'd ever want another job after this one.
One thing I like that was mentioned above is to simply carry on mostly as I am, but safe in the knowledge that I don't need this job... my boss is really nice and flexible with things so I'm not sure I'd need the 'FU money' so to speak, but it's nice to be in the position where if it all becomes too much, I have an easy way out.
Another suggestion I liked was to treat myself with the money from the job... if I want a new car, I can easily justify it, if I want a new phone, I can easily justify it... though realistically I'm more than happy with my bike right now, and tempting as the Sony Z3C is, my Galaxy S3 is still going strong! Most of my investments are in boring old index funds, and I want to focus on those, but maybe that can be where I spend my 'treat' money on - picking some stocks and hoping they come good :)
This is a really good attitude to have IMHO. You'll have the FU and FI money but can stay working if that's what you want and if it still allows you the free time to do all the other non-work related things in life that you like. I really loved my job but it didn't allow me time to do all the other things I wanted to do in life so I quit. It wasn't that I was running away from my job, but more that I was running to a better life then I could have then if I continued working.
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I had the same question. I am currently FIRE'd, with some more cushions. But I also love my job and I actually get excited to go to work like 60-70% of the days. (The other 30-40% would be when I know there are bureaucratic crap I have to put up with).
But at the same time I'm not sure what I would do once I quit my job. Not doing anything is pretty depressing, imo, and I guess my brain / personality is just wired to have something to look forward to every day.
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Nyold, then its best that you just keep on working.
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Every morning that I wake up (after yet another incredible night's sleep) and realize that I don't have to go to work, with it's required slog through rush hour traffic etc and it's myriad of other distasteful aspects... and when I get up and check my investments and realize that another couple of hundred bucks of dividends has been magically transferred into my accounts - well, it's an amazing feeling. Even the ability to enjoy a good cup of coffee, instead of guzzling it down on the way out the door at 5:30am is special. Then I have the entire day to pursue whatever exploits I choose.
I basically want to scream with joyous exultation every morning.
So, no... not regretting it. ;)
I love your posts lately Jon! :)
+1
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Not doing anything is pretty depressing, imo, and I guess my brain / personality is just wired to have something to look forward to every day.
Just because you aren't working a paying job any longer doesn't mean that you aren't doing anything and don't have something to look forward to everyday. That we aren't active and engaged in life - probably way more active and engaged with "living" then we were when working. It's not like we all shut down once we retire at 40 just sit in a rocking chair on the front porch waiting for death. Why do people always think that? Drives me insane!
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Not doing anything is pretty depressing, imo, and I guess my brain / personality is just wired to have something to look forward to every day.
Just because you aren't working a paying job any longer doesn't mean that you aren't doing anything and don't have something to look forward to everyday. That we aren't active and engaged in life - probably way more active and engaged with "living" then we were when working. It's not like we all shut down once we retire at 40 just sit in a rocking chair on the front porch waiting for death. Why do people always think that? Drives me insane!
+1
All I'll probably end up doing today?
30 pull ups, 60 push ups, 100 sit ups, 50 squats.
Walking my young daughter to pre-school and having a great discussion, as much as one can with a four year older.
Food shopping for our family, via a walk to TJ's.
Long breakfast.
Productive reading spell for about an hour.
Homemade lunch.
Folding laundry that I did late yesterday.
Walking my dog downtown to a different market to buy some boneless pork chops I couldn't find at TJ's.
Making dinner.
Cleaning up dinner.
Being an empathetic ear to my SO, and enabling her to spend more QT with our daughter at the end of the day today -- as in...a couple of hours of QT.
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Is this "not doing anything?" In my book it's pretty damned good.
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Ha Ha - Yep Rapmaster D - not doing anything rocks :-)! But seriously I really don't understand why people just assume people who retire aren't doing anything. Do they come to that conclusion from experience? Is it just what they believe because they can't imagine having anything else but paid work in their lives? Is it just some stereotype that they have seen on TV? I don't get it. On the other thread "What to do when you retire" I got the feeling that some people think that you kind of shrivel up and die once you retire - even if you are in your 40's or younger. I didn't post all the things I do and have done since I retired because I figured the OP on that thread was more expressing a sentiment of "there must be nothing to do in retirement because a couple of people I know who are retired don't do anything and hate it" rather than asking what people actually do, or want to do, once ER'd. Oh well...
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Ha Ha - Yep Rapmaster D - not doing anything rocks :-)! But seriously I really don't understand why people just assume people who retire aren't doing anything. Do they come to that conclusion from experience? Is it just what they believe because they can't imagine having anything else but paid work in their lives? Is it just some stereotype that they have seen on TV? I don't get it. On the other thread "What to do when you retire" I got the feeling that some people think that you kind of shrivel up and die once you retire - even if you are in your 40's or younger. I didn't post all the things I do and have done since I retired because I figured the OP on that thread was more expressing a sentiment of "there must be nothing to do in retirement because a couple of people I know who are retired don't do anything and hate it" rather than asking what people actually do, or want to do, once ER'd. Oh well...
Yup! Here's another one. I have volunteered twice for two hour shifts at GLIDE in SF -- breaking apart frozen sausage until my fingers were numb, breaking apart hot dog buns, chopping carrots, chopping green peppers, chopping sweet potatoes. Mind numbing brainless shit, right? Ummm....how about the fact my efforts contributed in a small way to providing 2,500 meals per day for folks who...trust me....really really need that food. I had previously worked at a company that championed volunteering. I just had no time to do it. Now I do. That's a good 'nothing' to spend a bit of time on.
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I work p.t. at a profession I love & I also volunteer. I also help out friends that are still working f.t. with some tasks that they have no time to do such as taking dogs to the vet, people to doc appts, etc.
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Every morning that I wake up (after yet another incredible night's sleep) and realize that I don't have to go to work, with it's required slog through rush hour traffic etc and it's myriad of other distasteful aspects... and when I get up and check my investments and realize that another couple of hundred bucks of dividends has been magically transferred into my accounts - well, it's an amazing feeling. Even the ability to enjoy a good cup of coffee, instead of guzzling it down on the way out the door at 5:30am is special. Then I have the entire day to pursue whatever exploits I choose.
I basically want to scream with joyous exultation every morning.
So, no... not regretting it. ;)
I love your posts lately Jon! :)
That's funny, because as I was reading Jon's post, I had a notion that the post was written by Eric!! When I got done reading and didn't see the guy in the cubs hat, I was kinda surprised! You guys must be on the same wavelength. I enjoy your posts, btw. Keep up the good attitudes.