Minivan purchase recommendations - Is the Volkswagen Routan a good buy?

[Midwestern Mustachio]

Hey all,

My wife and I have been looking for a minivan for a few months, and it looks like used car prices in our area are finally beginning to drop after the COVID surge.

The van would be not be driven day-to-day. It would be used for:

• cross country road-trips to visit family multiple times per year
• visits to Grandma in a nearby city 1-2 times per month (160 miles round trip)
  
• camping
• occasional craiglist furniture/home improvement hauling

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Anticipated annual mileage would be <4000. Our budget is $5500 (including registration and expected repairs). We already have a Nissan Leaf bought in Oct. 2020 for $4500, and it's important to me to keep the family fleet's value under $10k.

My area has a few Volkswagen Routans that appear to be decent deals. The one I'm looking at right now is a 2009 with 155,000 miles and leather seats for $3800 (private seller). A comparable Odyssey would go for north of $6000.

Anyone had bad luck with VWs? Any other strategies or makes/models you'd recommend?

[therethere]

I would never buy a VW that wasn't under warranty. Been there, done that. Bought a VW brand new and had so many random issues that are hard to troubleshoot because of German engineering. I sold it before it ran out of the warranty so I wouldn't be saddled with repair bills my entire life. I would buy nearly anything else before a VW.

[norajean]

I think it ranks dead last among minivans for reliability. VW are generally poorly made and prone to breakdown. Ask me how I know!

[WhiteTrashCash]

I’m pretty sure the VW Routan is a rebadged Chrysler Town & Country with all of Chrysler’s poor reliability problems.

[KYFIRE]

I can't imagine ever buying a Chrysler product and these are just rebadged Chryslers/Dodge Caravans with some extra fancy bits that as mentioned if came from VW were probably electronics which are not the most reliable.

I'd imagine you could find the Dodge/Chrysler equivalents for a little less money too. 

[Midwestern Mustachio]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll add this to my growing collection of "forum posts that have have saved me thousands of dollars".

So what's everyone's consensus on more reliable makes/models -- Toyota? Honda? Nissan?

[Papa bear]

Correct that the VW is just a caravan/T&C. BUT it does not keep the best feature. Full 2nd and 3rd row stow n go seating. 

That being said, I am 100% behind the caravan and T&C and now the pacifica.  For me, the number one thing in a minivan is flexibility of seating.  The full 2nd and 3rd row stow and go is an absolute 100% feature I want in a can.  My van gets used for a LOT of construction work.  Hauling material, tools, etc.  it also has to transport people.  And sometimes needs to do it on the same trip.  No place to take seats in and out.

While they may have more issues in the aggregate, i haven’t had any major negative problems with them.  I would, and do, recommend them all the time.  If the full 2nd and 3rd row stow n go wasn’t a deal breaker, I would absolutely look at the Honda. 

I have no experience with the other brands, but any of the Honda’s that are owned by friends, they all love them and have 0 issues.  I rarely see other brands outside of chrysler or Honda minivans in my area.  Toyota being a distant 3rd. 


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[Roots&Wings]

I went through this exercise late last year and my target models were Kia Sedona, Honda Odyssey (2007-2010) and Toyota Sienna. Test drove all of them and landed on a Sienna.

Would have loved the Odyssey or Sedona if I'd found one that didn't smell (that actually was a big problem!). Car smells are nearly impossible to change, have family that's a car dealer.

CarFax used car listings were especially helpful (several private party listings advertised as "well-maintained" had basically nothing done per CarFax reports). Good luck!

[chemistk]

Another hearty 'AVOID' for the Routan - they have been in circulation long enough now that most will have over 100k miles, and Chrysler vans are laughably bad for long term reliability (note, I'm mostly sure about this, I don't have any handy statistics I care to look up, but with the 4 or 5 Chrysler vans I've experienced significant amounts of time in [including the two my parents owned], there gets to be a point where it's just easier to scrap the thing).

Now that being said, I think the 2019-2020 Caravans with <50k miles are a good buy. Nearly all are former rentals (look for the GT or R/T trim levels), are well-equipped, and at your expected driving rate, they should last you with relatively few problems - at least until you hit your first big problem.

Wife an I were in agreement against the Sedona - interior is cramped, not as much flexibility, and seemed 'meh'.

Go with a few years old Sienna if you want the fewest problems. Wife and I didn't like the Sienna's interior or driving dynamics (although, it is a minivan), but generally the Sienna's of the last few years will net the fewest problems (chalk that up to the generation seeing few changes for a decade).

Wife and I liked the Ody the most. There are a few things you really need to watch out for (trans, VCM, timing belt @105k) but we thought the interior was the best of the vans and I really like how well-built it feels. If you get one, get a 3rd gen (look for 08-10 especially) or a 4th gen (specifically 14-17, with the 6spd trans.).

[Spiffy]

You can pry my Dodge Grand Caravan out of my cold dead fingers. I love mine. I held on to my Volvo wagon until my kid's legs were all so long that we had a hard time getting all three into the back seat. I like the Dodge more that the Honda and Toyota vans because it doesn't pretend to be a car. It wants to be a van! And you cannot beat the stow and go seats.

[Paper Chaser]

Another hearty 'AVOID' for the Routan - they have been in circulation long enough now that most will have over 100k miles, and Chrysler vans are laughably bad for long term reliability (note, I'm mostly sure about this, I don't have any handy statistics I care to look up, but with the 4 or 5 Chrysler vans I've experienced significant amounts of time in [including the two my parents owned], there gets to be a point where it's just easier to scrap the thing).

Now that being said, I think the 2019-2020 Caravans with <50k miles are a good buy. Nearly all are former rentals (look for the GT or R/T trim levels), are well-equipped, and at your expected driving rate, they should last you with relatively few problems - at least until you hit your first big problem.

Wife an I were in agreement against the Sedona - interior is cramped, not as much flexibility, and seemed 'meh'.

Go with a few years old Sienna if you want the fewest problems. Wife and I didn't like the Sienna's interior or driving dynamics (although, it is a minivan), but generally the Sienna's of the last few years will net the fewest problems (chalk that up to the generation seeing few changes for a decade).

Wife and I liked the Ody the most. There are a few things you really need to watch out for (trans, VCM, timing belt @105k) but we thought the interior was the best of the vans and I really like how well-built it feels. If you get one, get a 3rd gen (look for 08-10 especially) or a 4th gen (specifically 14-17, with the 6spd trans.).

OP's budget is $5500. They're not getting a van that's less than 10 years old. At that point, anything in budget will have the potential for costly maintenance or repairs, so you're just trying to dodge the ones that will cost the most. Chryslers are super flexible and cheap, but the quality issues have been noted. Odysseys from the early 2000s have known transmission issues at higher mileage. I might lean towards a Sienna given the criteria, but it's really going to be a case by case determination.

[Dave1442397]

I'd also look for a Sienna or Odyssey, and watch out for the Odysseys with possible transmission issues. Having said that, my sister had the trans replaced in her late '90s Odyssey and ran it to just over 200k miles. It died on the way home from the Toyota dealership, where she had just bought a new RAV-4. Her mechanic said it wasn't worth fixing, but I'd say she got her money's worth, considering she had it for twenty years plus.

[chemistk]

Another hearty 'AVOID' for the Routan - they have been in circulation long enough now that most will have over 100k miles, and Chrysler vans are laughably bad for long term reliability (note, I'm mostly sure about this, I don't have any handy statistics I care to look up, but with the 4 or 5 Chrysler vans I've experienced significant amounts of time in [including the two my parents owned], there gets to be a point where it's just easier to scrap the thing).

Now that being said, I think the 2019-2020 Caravans with <50k miles are a good buy. Nearly all are former rentals (look for the GT or R/T trim levels), are well-equipped, and at your expected driving rate, they should last you with relatively few problems - at least until you hit your first big problem.

Wife an I were in agreement against the Sedona - interior is cramped, not as much flexibility, and seemed 'meh'.

Go with a few years old Sienna if you want the fewest problems. Wife and I didn't like the Sienna's interior or driving dynamics (although, it is a minivan), but generally the Sienna's of the last few years will net the fewest problems (chalk that up to the generation seeing few changes for a decade).

Wife and I liked the Ody the most. There are a few things you really need to watch out for (trans, VCM, timing belt @105k) but we thought the interior was the best of the vans and I really like how well-built it feels. If you get one, get a 3rd gen (look for 08-10 especially) or a 4th gen (specifically 14-17, with the 6spd trans.).

OP's budget is $5500. They're not getting a van that's less than 10 years old. At that point, anything in budget will have the potential for costly maintenance or repairs, so you're just trying to dodge the ones that will cost the most. Chryslers are super flexible and cheap, but the quality issues have been noted. Odysseys from the early 2000s have known transmission issues at higher mileage. I might lean towards a Sienna given the criteria, but it's really going to be a case by case determination.

Oof I completely missed the budget in the OP, thanks for catching me.

(no longer addressing you specifically, Paper Chaser)

I'll double down on my 'avoid Chrysler' advice on the maintenance grounds. Everything >10 years and >100k miles is going to need maintenance, but watching Chrysler vans over the years, there's a huge difference between routine high mileage maintenance and systemic quality issues that develop into a million one-off issues.

There's a reason you see Ody's and Sienna's with 200k miles still floating around, but relative to the production volumes, you don't see nearly as many Chrysler vans (although this could be a regional thing, I will admit).

Tailoring my recommendation, I would look specifically for a 2008-2010 Odyssey with under 150k miles and a documented service history - most importantly 1) that the 105k mile timing belt change occurred, and 2) whether the van was in the shop for piston rings/fouled spark plugs/motor mounts. I was able to find at least 10 examples within 200 miles of my zip code.

Over on the Ody forums, many of the members wax poetic over the 3rd Gen Ody (2005-2010), many claiming that it was "the best Ody generation ever". I'd contend 4th Gen is better but that's splitting hairs.

If the van had its 105k service, doesn't have bad motor mounts from VCM (muzzle [look up VCM muzzler] that ASAP on any V6 Honda), and shifting is relatively smooth, then I would bet a good chunk of change that van would go to 300k with regular trans fluid swaps and another timing belt change at 210k.

[Tester]

Regarding old Oddysseys.
Bought a 2009 Oddyssey in 2018, it had 140k miles.
Basic trim, no electric doors...
Had a lot of service records and interior looked better maintained than other oddyseys at half the mileage, oess years and double the price.
Payed 9200 out of the door.

Changed since then:
- timing belt, water pump, rollers - did not find ser ice re ord for this and did not want to risk it - 1300 usd if I remember correctly.
- engine mounts - two of them I think- don't remeber jow much and I am too lazy to find the invoices.
- new tires - 800.
- some electronic board in the engine compartment, 1500 usd...
- rear shocks, they were the original factory installed ones - or all shocks? If not all I need to change front one soon.
- front brake disks - 400 usd.
- driver door actuator - did it myself, 40 usd.
- spark plugs and wires, forgot how much.
- flushed the transmission.
- changed two things for the front suspension/transmission cv joint and some other thing???

Now it has 184k miles, still going strong.
Will have to replace the power mirrors switch as the plastic holding it broke - easy to do, part is 40 usd.

I would say all money spent, including buying it, around 15k usd.
Might be a lot, but the other minivans I was looking at were 15k before tax so I think I still came on top as theh would have needed at least tires and other "small repairs".

The mechanic who verified it (after I bought it...) said it is good and that the price was good
He also told me to look after the transmission and if I do it will last a long time.
There was/is a small noise from the transmissikn, which appeared 3 days after I bought it... Mechanic said it is small and to make sure I take care of the transmission.

I hope this helps you decide.

If you find an oddyssey with low mileage you mhight be fine.


All said, I would kill for stow and go, but I tested a t&c with all the bells and whistles and with half mileage and it was smelling like melting wiring, driving like a tractor... My wife was almost crying as she thought I will buy it.... :-)

Edit: sorry for typos, posting from phone and now I am too lazy to correct them all.

[joemandadman189]

The van would be not be driven day-to-day. It would be used for:

• cross country road-trips to visit family multiple times per year
• visits to Grandma in a nearby city 1-2 times per month (160 miles round trip)
  
• camping
• occasional craiglist furniture/home improvement hauling
  
  Anyone had bad luck with VWs? Any other strategies or makes/models you'd recommend?
  

not to be the party pooper but most of those use cases would be quite problematic if you had a breakdown and at ~$5500 budget you are not going to get much of a van. My mom just had a "breakdown" where she got a flat in the the middle of nowhere then the power steering went out, about 2.5 hours into a 12 hour trip. it took an extra day to get things fixed along with a hotel and meals in BFE. just something to consider if you are taking a old vehicle camping or across country

we have a newer honda odyessy and its great[/list]

[MayDay]

We have a 2005 Sienna with 220k miles and use it for similar things. It's never had a really big maintenance problem- the most expensive has been fixing AC which isn't going to leave you stranded. However at that age/mileage it certainly seems inevitable. We are thinking about replacement but more likely we'll continue to use it for the shorter trips (hauling in town, boy scout camp an hour away) where worst case you can call someone if you get stranded. And just rent a vehicle for the longer road trips.

[acepedro45]

The Stow and Go seats are desirable, but the downside is they are attached to vans with Chrysler engines and transmissions. At the OP's price point and implied age and mileage, I would avoid any Chryslers. 

The dashboard-light.com data suggest that the Toyota Sienna is the big standout in the used minivan segment. That was a big factor in my family's decision to buy a used one for a bit less than the OP's $5,500 budget a few years back.

http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Minivan.html

Ours was a 13-year-old specimen (at time of purchase) with 175k miles. I have no hesitation about taking it on long road trips and doing some hauling around of stuff. Admittedly it's a pain to remove the second row of seats.

If you're really interested, watch these two videos and try not to get overwhelmed. He says a million items of concern but these are really well-built vans that will last forever with good maintenance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaGmRqy7C_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1_uLFCJ6c

ETA: The only real chronic areas of problems on these vans are the power sliding doors and the rack and pinion steering.