Author Topic: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money  (Read 10309 times)

Chesleygirl

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Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« on: August 15, 2017, 02:14:15 PM »
Have you ever had someone try to make you feel bad for something you do to save money, OR something you don't do because you can't afford it?  And how did you respond to them?

PoutineLover

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2017, 02:27:00 PM »
Yup it happens often. I don't like to buy too much stuff, or go out all the time. For me a cheap picnic in the park is more fun than a restaurant dinner. By now most of my friends have accepted that I don't always feel like spending the money on going out or that I will find a cheaper alternative like walking instead of taking a taxi, but I've also been called stingy for it. I am secure in the idea that I will retire early and have the money to go on trips while they complain that they can't afford to travel.. My money goes to my own priorities, not theirs, and it doesn't mean that I can't have fun, just that I choose my expenditures carefully. Just don't take it personally and if it really affects your friendship maybe they aren't a friend you need to keep in your life.

JLee

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2017, 02:29:13 PM »
Yeah, a good friend always gives me a hard time when he suggests I buy x/y/z and I say I don't want to spend that much (e.g. $40k car). He's like 'what else are you going to spend it on?'  Well, I could just not spend it, haha.  It doesn't bother me though, we each have our priorities.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2017, 02:38:45 PM »
I've had people over the years make negative comments. They often spend large amounts of money that I wouldn't although I don't say anything about it.

I went on a ski trip with a friend one year. I borrowed an old ski suit to wear, to save money. This ski suit was about ten years old, so not very fashionable anymore but it fit and so I wore it. My friend said "OMG, you are going to wear that??" And kind of snickered. Now, this comment is coming not from a teenager, but a grown woman in her 30s. 

I've also had people make fun of me for shopping at Wal Mart, and weirdly enough, having a YMCA membership.

I am just tired of it. Me and my husband are getting older and no longer care about impressing anyone.

Mrs SimplestHappiness

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2017, 03:00:55 PM »
I don't like spas, manicures, pedicures stuff like that. We do girls get-togethers every year or few years and always something like this comes up. Even when free I'm not into it that much and I just get to hear "why don't you indulge yourself in once in a while ..." Sometimes it's the saving money part and other times it's assumed that everybody likes the same things. I'd rather pay to go to a museum or rock climbing instead. Social norms get frustrating sometimes...on top of wasting money.

wordnerd

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2017, 03:52:03 PM »
Mostly, I get it from my family. The things that we do to save money that are scorn-worthy:
  • Staying at Motel 6
    Having an old phone that didn't receive group texts
    Once I got a new phone, not having an iPhone
    Not going out to eat enough
    Eating leftovers
    Driving an old car

There are others that I'm forgetting right now. They've stopped commenting since us being frugal weirdos is just old-hat now.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2017, 05:07:21 PM »
Mostly, I get it from my family. The things that we do to save money that are scorn-worthy:
  • Staying at Motel 6
    Having an old phone that didn't receive group texts
    Once I got a new phone, not having an iPhone
    Not going out to eat enough
    Eating leftovers
    Driving an old car

There are others that I'm forgetting right now. They've stopped commenting since us being frugal weirdos is just old-hat now.

Same here, no I phone.

And Motel 6 is great. I don't care where I stay as long as I have a roof over my head and a bed to sleep in.

Zikoris

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2017, 07:47:32 PM »
Sometimes people give us shit about living in a housing co-op. As in, "You're taking affordable housing away from people who need it more!". Apparently co-ops don't actually function by having market-paying members subsidize the rents of lower income members, but instead have magical money trees and don't actually need a balance of income levels to function.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2017, 09:47:07 PM »
Sometimes people give us shit about living in a housing co-op. As in, "You're taking affordable housing away from people who need it more!". Apparently co-ops don't actually function by having market-paying members subsidize the rents of lower income members, but instead have magical money trees and don't actually need a balance of income levels to function.

That sounds like they are trying to shame you about living in a co-op using some kind of moral angle. How do they even know who needs something more than someone else?

mxt0133

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2017, 11:39:47 PM »
My beloved wife used to say, "you just want to die with all your money."

To which my response used to be, I just don't see the need to spend all of as I choose to enjoy doing things that don't cost money. 

Lately she hasn't said it as much, but my next reply would be, "You know it will either be you or the kids that will get the money right, so what are you complaining about?"


gggggg

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2017, 11:42:11 PM »
At least once a week someone is picking on my lack of spending. I generally don't buy things unless I actually need, and will definitely use them; and only replace things once they are dead, or on the brink. People tell me that I may pass away tomorrow and not have enjoyed my money. These same people fret about credit card interest rates, and making loan payments on everything they have.

K-ice

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2017, 11:48:38 PM »
Been made to feel guilty for not splitting a dinner bill evenly when I didn't drink.

mandy_2002

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2017, 01:47:10 AM »
Been made to feel guilty for not splitting a dinner bill evenly when I didn't drink.

Yep.  I was with people the other night who took a 48 Lari bill (Georgian currency) and planned to split it evenly.  Each of them had 2 beers, and I brought my own water.  I very quietly said "but I didn't have beer," put a ten in, and left it.  We did split some appetizers and things pretty evenly, and 2 lari is less than a dollar, but I can't get past the principle.  I think the person who suggested this legitimately forgot that I didn't drink, since he kept saying "four beers?" each time the waitress came and I corrected it to three, but I still get a bit embarrassed having to correct that.  Whenever I dine with a large group, I do everything I can to pay separately, since I know I've spent 50% - 90% less than the rest of the table.  In Georgia I've learned that there are just some people I cannot go out with on a tab. 

Linea_Norway

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2017, 05:00:58 AM »
Some time ago I told my colleagues that I had blacked my leather rucksack-handbag that had turned grey over the years. Recently I also repaired a shoulder strap that had loosened. One of my younger colleagues, a spendypants girl in her 20s told me to dash the handbag and buy a new one instead.

Quite a few of my colleagues have been commenting on me bringing my own lunch. I just tell them that I prefer to bring my own to limit how much I eat. I tend to overeat in a fixed-price cafeteria. My body weight has gone down since I started bringing my own lunch. :-)

BookValue

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2017, 05:36:28 AM »
Been made to feel guilty for not splitting a dinner bill evenly when I didn't drink.

Yep.  I was with people the other night who took a 48 Lari bill (Georgian currency) and planned to split it evenly.  Each of them had 2 beers, and I brought my own water.  I very quietly said "but I didn't have beer," put a ten in, and left it.  We did split some appetizers and things pretty evenly, and 2 lari is less than a dollar, but I can't get past the principle.  I think the person who suggested this legitimately forgot that I didn't drink, since he kept saying "four beers?" each time the waitress came and I corrected it to three, but I still get a bit embarrassed having to correct that.  Whenever I dine with a large group, I do everything I can to pay separately, since I know I've spent 50% - 90% less than the rest of the table.  In Georgia I've learned that there are just some people I cannot go out with on a tab.

I've had similar happen with my SIL. After driving a total of 7 hours to get there a group went out to eat. My wife and I ordered the cheapest things on the menu without drinks, and our bill+tip was still $25. Everyone wanted to split the bill evenly which would have made our share $45. They didn't understand when I said no way.
Same SIL also has a tradition that on birthdays the group goes out and pays for dinner for the birthday person. The one time I went along she ordered surf&turf and didn't even bother finishing it, then also had multiple cocktails. My $20 bill turned into $55.

zing12

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2017, 12:46:53 PM »
Certain family members always want to tell me how i NEED a new car and I really don't know what's wrong with my car, I see way older cars than my '08 on the road. They also seem to think that the 160k miles is some kind of death sentence.

dcozad999

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2017, 01:43:13 PM »
Been made to feel guilty for not splitting a dinner bill evenly when I didn't drink.

Yep.  I was with people the other night who took a 48 Lari bill (Georgian currency) and planned to split it evenly.  Each of them had 2 beers, and I brought my own water.  I very quietly said "but I didn't have beer," put a ten in, and left it.  We did split some appetizers and things pretty evenly, and 2 lari is less than a dollar, but I can't get past the principle.  I think the person who suggested this legitimately forgot that I didn't drink, since he kept saying "four beers?" each time the waitress came and I corrected it to three, but I still get a bit embarrassed having to correct that.  Whenever I dine with a large group, I do everything I can to pay separately, since I know I've spent 50% - 90% less than the rest of the table.  In Georgia I've learned that there are just some people I cannot go out with on a tab.

I've had similar happen with my SIL. After driving a total of 7 hours to get there a group went out to eat. My wife and I ordered the cheapest things on the menu without drinks, and our bill+tip was still $25. Everyone wanted to split the bill evenly which would have made our share $45. They didn't understand when I said no way.
Same SIL also has a tradition that on birthdays the group goes out and pays for dinner for the birthday person. The one time I went along she ordered surf&turf and didn't even bother finishing it, then also had multiple cocktails. My $20 bill turned into $55.


Is splitting the bill evenly a cultural or geographic thing? Because here in the midwest I've never been in a group that wanted to split the bill evenly. Everyone has always paid for themselves.

zing12

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2017, 01:54:02 PM »
Could just be that American restaurants are more service-oriented than in most places and will be happy to split the check for you.

MgoSam

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2017, 02:09:26 PM »
Could just be that American restaurants are more service-oriented than in most places and will be happy to split the check for you.

There's that, but I think it is also because it helps facilitate tips. Prior to check splitting becoming commonplace, I know servers that hated medium sized groups because they couldn't auto-include gratuity and so everyone would pool cash and oftentimes they were left with a small tip. Now that everyone has their own check I'm guessing servers' tips have increased as well.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2017, 03:09:32 PM »
Yea, I usually get comments from the people that are the worst with money, so it's really hard to not throw a snide comment back.  For some reason it's ok to make fun of someone for being stingy, but not for being spendy.  Kind of like how I've been skinny my whole life and people comment on it all the time (in a negative way), but I can't say anything to them about being overweight (and the commenters are always overweight).

My go-to's when someone tells me I need something are 'are you the one buying?' or my favorite when people kept telling me I had to have a smart phone, 'why?  what will happen if I don't get one?'.  Never did get an answer to that one.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2017, 03:52:34 PM »
Oh hell yes. Comments like

"we must get you out of that little cave" (perfectly adequate but tiny and cheap rental house in great area)
"I didn't realise that you needed to do this. I could help you get a new job?" (shopping for second hand clothing, a process I actually really enjoy)
"just spend some money! You don't have to buy other people's nasty cast offs!" (purchase of a vintage velvet sofa online)
"you spend more on the cat than you do on yourself" (nope, cat has second hand blankets and bowls also! He doesn't care)

My favourite comment at the moment, although not really about me saving money, was by friend who was saying he had no money. When I pointed out that he'd just spent $20,000 (!) updating his kitchen, he told me that I obviously understood nothing about investment.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2017, 04:16:32 PM »
My favourite comment at the moment, although not really about me saving money, was by friend who was saying he had no money. When I pointed out that he'd just spent $20,000 (!) updating his kitchen, he told me that I obviously understood nothing about investment.

I'd have asked him what his expected rate of return is on that investment :-)

Teachstache

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2017, 04:18:59 PM »
Yep. All the time. Usually from my spendy family members. We can't tell anyone that we're $2,800 away from paying off our mortgage, which we took on in August 2012. They just wouldn't get it, or would say that we were being foolish by not investing that amount. Meanwhile, we're spending 39% of our gross income (including spending for childcare and health insurance premiums, as well as health costs).

le-weekend

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2017, 06:19:45 PM »
This is a really interesting phenomenon. I think it's part jealousy, and part people honestly not comprehending the advantages of saving. I had money problems for years and was blinded by my "need" for various lifestyle trappings, as well as zero ability to appreciate that vague concept called The Future.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Chesleygirl

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2017, 07:13:30 PM »
Been made to feel guilty for not splitting a dinner bill evenly when I didn't drink.

Yep.  I was with people the other night who took a 48 Lari bill (Georgian currency) and planned to split it evenly.  Each of them had 2 beers, and I brought my own water.  I very quietly said "but I didn't have beer," put a ten in, and left it.  We did split some appetizers and things pretty evenly, and 2 lari is less than a dollar, but I can't get past the principle.  I think the person who suggested this legitimately forgot that I didn't drink, since he kept saying "four beers?" each time the waitress came and I corrected it to three, but I still get a bit embarrassed having to correct that.  Whenever I dine with a large group, I do everything I can to pay separately, since I know I've spent 50% - 90% less than the rest of the table.  In Georgia I've learned that there are just some people I cannot go out with on a tab.

I had to start asking for a separate check when I dined out with a certain person. She'd conveniently "forget" about things that she ordered and think I should pay for. She claimed I ordered a shrimp appetizer one time and I had to remind her I was a vegetarian. She also didn't like to tip the waitstaff. So I started insisting on a separate check, then eventually quit dining out with her altogether.

I don't know if splitting checks evenly is a regional thing or not. For me, it became necessary because of certain people I was dining out with.

GardenBaker

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2017, 12:34:31 PM »

Quite a few of my colleagues have been commenting on me bringing my own lunch. I just tell them that I prefer to bring my own to limit how much I eat. I tend to overeat in a fixed-price cafeteria.

Yes, this!! I've had co-workers complaining that I never go eat lunch with them. I just say either (1) I'm trying to eat less calories, and I can't seem to order healthy at a restaurant or (2) I'm tired of our limited dining choices in town.  They've finally taken the hint and stopped asking me to lunch.

marty998

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2017, 03:46:01 PM »

Quite a few of my colleagues have been commenting on me bringing my own lunch. I just tell them that I prefer to bring my own to limit how much I eat. I tend to overeat in a fixed-price cafeteria.

Yes, this!! I've had co-workers complaining that I never go eat lunch with them. I just say either (1) I'm trying to eat less calories, and I can't seem to order healthy at a restaurant or (2) I'm tired of our limited dining choices in town.  They've finally taken the hint and stopped asking me to lunch.

My colleagues know I don't eat anything but vegemite sandwiches..  >_<

They still ask me out to lunch out of politeness, but they know what the answer will be. It's a bit of a joke now.

Cranky

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2017, 04:22:24 PM »
No, not exactly - I'm frugal but generous. I don't go out to eat often, for instance, but if it's a celebration I am happy to pay more than "my share".

But I've found that people can be terribly offended by what seem to me to be very mild remarks. I recently commented that I didn't think that financing a 10 yo SUV was a great plan, and you'd a thought I suggested the ritual sacrifice of puppies.

wordnerd

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2017, 07:02:38 PM »
Thought of another: not having cable. Apparently, this is a fate worse than death!

Zikoris

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2017, 07:20:40 PM »
But I've found that people can be terribly offended by what seem to me to be very mild remarks. I recently commented that I didn't think that financing a 10 yo SUV was a great plan, and you'd a thought I suggested the ritual sacrifice of puppies.

My last boss was stunned when I said that in my opinion if you can't afford to pay cash for a car, you can't afford it. I think it can make sense to finance for other reasons, but you should still have enough money to pay for it in full. A couple years later he ended up getting fired for stealing furniture, alcohol, cash, and dinnerware. Possibly other things. It was a bizarre situation. I don't know how a person could think people in an office wouldn't notice a missing couch, but hey.

sequoia

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2017, 08:25:40 PM »
Yeah, a good friend always gives me a hard time when he suggests I buy x/y/z and I say I don't want to spend that much (e.g. $40k car). He's like 'what else are you going to spend it on?'  Well, I could just not spend it, haha.  It doesn't bother me though, we each have our priorities.

Totally agree. Different priorities.

One of my buddy used to say "Its just money" when I do not buy the $100 sneakers or whatever that I like to have but I do not need it, so I did not buy it. Fast forward to now. He make more $ and a dual income family. I make less $ from my salary and wife does not work. But we have saved and over the years manage to own several properties. I am not worried about retirement, he is somewhat worried. Last time we spoke, he sounded like he is still working on some big loans, my guess is cars and student loans. 

EDIT: we were having dinner, and he almost fell out of his chair when he asked how we can get loan to buy properties when our house still has mortgage. I said I paid cash :)  I swear I was not trying to brag about it.

My last boss was stunned when I said that in my opinion if you can't afford to pay cash for a car, you can't afford it. I think it can make sense to finance for other reasons, but you should still have enough money to pay for it in full. A couple years later he ended up getting fired for stealing furniture, alcohol, cash, and dinnerware. Possibly other things. It was a bizarre situation. I don't know how a person could think people in an office wouldn't notice a missing couch, but hey.
Whoa.... I have heard of people who got fired for stealing office supplies or other small items, but stealing a couch. That is pretty bold.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 08:36:24 PM by sequoia »

nouveauRiche

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2017, 08:37:41 PM »
EDIT: we were having dinner, and he almost fell out of his chair when he asked how we can get loan to buy properties when our house still has mortgage. I said I paid cash :)  I swear I was not trying to brag about it.

That'll shut him up!


Bones81

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2017, 09:21:02 PM »
I work with co-workers who have high incomes and my increased frugality and savings unnerves them in a way.  They know they should be smarter with their money, they just aren't because they make so much of it.  That's not to say they don't have decent savings rates, but they could be saving much more and they know it.  They give me a hard time about all the things I do to try and save money, but deep down, I think they do this in part because they know it's smart and it makes them feel a bit guilty for not doing it themselves.  We work in finance, so they know they spend way more than they should. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 09:23:16 PM by Bones81 »

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2017, 09:25:09 PM »

Quite a few of my colleagues have been commenting on me bringing my own lunch. I just tell them that I prefer to bring my own to limit how much I eat. I tend to overeat in a fixed-price cafeteria.

Yes, this!! I've had co-workers complaining that I never go eat lunch with them. I just say either (1) I'm trying to eat less calories, and I can't seem to order healthy at a restaurant or (2) I'm tired of our limited dining choices in town.  They've finally taken the hint and stopped asking me to lunch.

My colleagues know I don't eat anything but vegemite sandwiches..  >_<

They still ask me out to lunch out of politeness, but they know what the answer will be. It's a bit of a joke now.

But you do have the rare work lunch where the company pays and you get to go and be social. I think that helps.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2017, 09:33:24 PM »
I sometimes get some comments about my thrifty ways, but the comments usually stop when people stop by my house and see how I live. Because I buy quality used stuff and fix it up, my house is pretty damn great. And then I cook for people in my fully stocked and equipped kitchen and it blows their minds, because they live under the impression that food can only be good if it's made by a trained expert and served to you in a public place.

Also, nobody knows the difference between brand new clothes from the mall and stuff I buy for $2 a piece at Goodwill. They are completely clueless about it.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2017, 09:42:46 PM »
Sometimes people give us shit about living in a housing co-op. As in, "You're taking affordable housing away from people who need it more!". Apparently co-ops don't actually function by having market-paying members subsidize the rents of lower income members, but instead have magical money trees and don't actually need a balance of income levels to function.

I think they're referring to something else, though.

While BC's co-op units have varying rates, many "market units" aren't actually at market rent rates. Many co-op builds were heavily subsidized (e.g., by the federal government, via reduced land cost or interest-free mortgages) at the point of development, resulting in lower than market rates for all residents, ongoing.

People are asking that the higher-cost units, too, (still below market rent rates) be offered to people with tricky circumstances, or at least shared amongst more people via time-limits (like second-stage housing and family housing are).

Zikoris

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2017, 10:48:03 PM »
Sometimes people give us shit about living in a housing co-op. As in, "You're taking affordable housing away from people who need it more!". Apparently co-ops don't actually function by having market-paying members subsidize the rents of lower income members, but instead have magical money trees and don't actually need a balance of income levels to function.

I think they're referring to something else, though.

While BC's co-op units have varying rates, many "market units" aren't actually at market rent rates. Many co-op builds were heavily subsidized (e.g., by the federal government, via reduced land cost or interest-free mortgages) at the point of development, resulting in lower than market rates for all residents, ongoing.

People are asking that the higher-cost units, too, (still below market rent rates) be offered to people with tricky circumstances, or at least shared amongst more people via time-limits (like second-stage housing and family housing are).

But that's the thing - a co-op can't function if everyone has tricky circumstances. Tricky circumstances mean sometimes rent doesn't get paid, and people need payment plans to get caught up. Tricky circumstances mean a certain lack of stability that causes people to need to move on short notice, leading to vacancy loss or other issues. Co-ops don't get to not pay their mortgage or hydro bill if a bunch of members need to delay rent one month. There needs to be a base of members with stable incomes and lives in order to carry the people who need it.

I don't think a co-op would ever have time limits, as that's contrary to the entire concept of building stable, long term communities where everyone knows each other well. Ours is at the point now of being multi-generational, with many of the original members now having their grown kids and extended families as neighbours. A co-op where all the leadership was constantly rotating with people brand new to co-operative housing would have a very hard time functioning, and quite likely either go bankrupt or run into very serious maintenance issues due to lack of knowledge and experience.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2017, 11:03:08 PM »
I agree with much of that (a project's bills must be paid, stability for residents is optimal, etc).

But I think we can also acknowledge what the others are saying too: It's due to the original financial support of the federal government that no one in a co-op has been having to pay actual market rents, and are getting a skookum deal.*

There are heaps of people with tricky circumstances who are able to pay rent reliably, help out, stay long term, etc...on the highest ("market"-that's-not-market) rent charged at a co-op. Just not at true market rates.

It seems strange to many of us that there are a certain number of units in BC -made cheap by the original subsidies of the federal govt- available to people who are able to achieve moderate to high incomes, able to afford true market rates, live anywhere, etc- while thousands in more challenging circumstances remain unable to access the same.

It's additionally intriguing when the other non-profit housing models do implement time-limits and don't offer stability.

It's just a very strange and arbitrary mix of models, with a relative handful benefiting with the optimal situation, and others with higher need not.

Ideally, we would perhaps see co-ops for everyone who prefers that model. But short of that, I'm one that would propose the government/non-profit units go first to those in greater need (while still able to pay a rent sufficient to the project's needs).


*To be clear, I fully support people pursuing skookum deals. That's how I've gotten by so far, but by hodge-podging my way through the private market.

Zikoris

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2017, 11:18:11 PM »
I agree with much of that (a project's bills must be paid, stability for residents is optimal, etc).

But I think we can also acknowledge what the others are saying too: It's due to the original financial support of the federal government that no one in a co-op has been having to pay actual market rents, and are getting a skookum deal.*

There are heaps of people with tricky circumstances who are able to pay rent reliably, help out, stay long term, etc...on the highest ("market"-that's-not-market) rent charged at a co-op. Just not at true market rates.

It seems strange to many of us that there are a certain number of units in BC -made cheap by the original subsidies of the federal govt- available to people who are able to achieve moderate to high incomes, able to afford true market rates, live anywhere, etc- while thousands in more challenging circumstances remain unable to access the same.

It's additionally intriguing when the other non-profit housing models do implement time-limits and don't offer stability.

It's just a very strange and arbitrary mix of models, with a relative handful benefiting with the optimal situation, and others with higher need not.

Ideally, we would perhaps see co-ops for everyone who prefers that model. But short of that, I'm one that would propose the government/non-profit units go first to those in greater need (while still able to pay a rent sufficient to the project's needs).


*To be clear, I fully support people pursuing skookum deals. That's how I've gotten by so far, but by hodge-podging my way through the private market.

I think the big difference between co-ops and other non-profit housing is who's running them - you can have time limits for sure if the project is being run by an outside agency which provides the expertise and experience in things like building maintenance/structure, legal knowledge, screening of potential members, and all of that. The reality is, co-ops need to provide that from within the membership, and the people with those types of skills are generally going to be higher income. Backgrounds in things like engineering, finance, law, real estate, and project management are EXTREMELY useful to a co-op, and will get someone to the front of the line for a spot pretty much anywhere due to simple necessity. Someone has to do the work, ultimately, and within the co-op structure, most of it needs to come from within.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2017, 11:18:53 PM »
To participate in the original topic here...

Yep!

I find it comes out of one of two places:

1. They're experiencing a place of dependence (financial, emotional, etc) and I'm not meeting that. e.g., They want to stay in a nice hotel, and I'm opting to sleep in my car. My not staying in the hotel means THEY don't get a cost break (split costs), so they try to make an issue of my choice to not spend. Or they want company for a meal out, and I'm not being it.

2. They feel guilty or ashamed about not saving. I had one person become irate with me because I was saving up for my kid's orthodontic care. Ultimately, he said that by my saving up for that, I was judging his ongoing spending and debt, and his not saving for his kid's dental work. Oh!

People who spend any which way and feel comfy with their spending choices don't try to make me feel bad about saving. So, in my experience, it's not about a difference in spending choices, but a difference in things like dependence, personal guilt, etc.

I really appreciate that most people in my life DON'T try to make me feel bad about saving. Most express acceptance, admiration, and respect. And I really appreciate it because I value their spending! While I'm focused on saving, they're buying at the farmer's market, etc, which is what I have great respect for.

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2017, 11:23:03 PM »
My favourite comment at the moment, although not really about me saving money, was by friend who was saying he had no money. When I pointed out that he'd just spent $20,000 (!) updating his kitchen, he told me that I obviously understood nothing about investment.

I'd have asked him what his expected rate of return is on that investment :-)

I hate that "investment" has come to mean "spending lots of money." It's the advertising industry's coup de grāce of American financial literacy.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2017, 11:36:53 PM »
Quote
Backgrounds in things like engineering, finance, law, real estate, and project management are EXTREMELY useful to a co-op, and will get someone to the front of the line for a spot pretty much anywhere due to simple necessity. Someone has to do the work, ultimately, and within the co-op structure, most of it needs to come from within.

Yep.

Though there are plenty of people paying market-rent-that's-not-actually-market-rent in co-ops who have none of those skills, and there are plenty of people with such background and skills whose personal circumstances require that they step out of market work conditions for a time (e.g., lawyer caring for a disabled child or parent).

In my imaginary world, non-profit spaces would be provided to those with highest need and skill (unfortunately, in BC today that's a very large number of people) and then a number of suites to those with highest need without specific professional skills to contribute (but other great qualities, like hosting, social grace, etc).

Generally, those with great circumstances and high skill (or low/no skill) can access cohousing, a private model accessing people with the skills to keep costs lower and the cash to pay true market rates.

Zikoris

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2017, 09:45:45 AM »
Quote
Backgrounds in things like engineering, finance, law, real estate, and project management are EXTREMELY useful to a co-op, and will get someone to the front of the line for a spot pretty much anywhere due to simple necessity. Someone has to do the work, ultimately, and within the co-op structure, most of it needs to come from within.

Yep.

Though there are plenty of people paying market-rent-that's-not-actually-market-rent in co-ops who have none of those skills, and there are plenty of people with such background and skills whose personal circumstances require that they step out of market work conditions for a time (e.g., lawyer caring for a disabled child or parent).

In my imaginary world, non-profit spaces would be provided to those with highest need and skill (unfortunately, in BC today that's a very large number of people) and then a number of suites to those with highest need without specific professional skills to contribute (but other great qualities, like hosting, social grace, etc).

Generally, those with great circumstances and high skill (or low/no skill) can access cohousing, a private model accessing people with the skills to keep costs lower and the cash to pay true market rates.

Keep in mind that co-ops are limited by the constraints of reality to select from who applies - while a lawyer caring for a disabled child could be a great applicant (though possibly not - in my experience people caring for disabled children or parents often have very little extra time to volunteer, so those skills would likely not get utilized), the reality is that we need to take what we can get as far as skills go. You might think it's common, but I don't remember ever seeing a single application for someone who had the professional background that's useful for a co-op, but had stepped down for personal reasons and still had the interest time to volunteer - a person who fit that mold who also applied at the exact co-op that needed those skills would be a unicorn indeed. As a business, we can't afford to hold units vacant while waiting for the perfect applicant to apply.

Also keep in mind that every co-op is a separate, private entity with entry criteria based on the type of community it's looking to create, which is decided by the founders. There are co-ops that are purely for French speakers, or a specific religion, or artists, or people with physical disabilities, or any number of things. There's no central agency that people apply to and wait for a spot. Personal need is generally not much of a factor, except for the subsidized units - the needs of the co-op are the priority, because if those aren't met the whole thing collapses.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2017, 10:14:00 AM »
I'm one of those unicorns :)
And being one, I'm aware of countless others.
Sadly, there's no longer much of a correlation between high need and low skill.
Now in BC, lots of people are high skill and high need.

I appreciate that you're willing to hear the "other side" re: the concern over units in govt-subsidized, non-profit projects going to folks able to afford true market rates.

Hopefully one day the federal govt will simply choose to create more low-cost housing...for everyone that needs it. That will also kill the criticism of "regular" people getting the rare subsidized deals.

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2017, 10:40:48 AM »
I'm one of those unicorns :)
And being one, I'm aware of countless others.
Sadly, there's no longer much of a correlation between high need and low skill.
Now in BC, lots of people are high skill and high need.

There may well be unicorns out there, but as someone who's been involved in the membership process for almost eight years, they don't seem to be applying to co-ops a whole lot. They should, because they'd get in pretty easily, but they're not. And of course, if they're now low income, they might only qualify for the very limited subsidy units, which have an extremely long wait list. So co-ops can really only make do with what we get.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2017, 11:11:33 AM »
Hmmm... I think my effort to communicate the stuff I was trying to communicate was unsuccessful :(
No worries!

sisto

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2017, 05:16:30 PM »
I get it often, usually from my family. The biggest one that sticks out is my mom roasting me in front of my family at a big family gathering. She gave me a hard time over making xxx/yr and being too cheap to spring for call waiting, this was years ago when everyone still had home phones. I was like why do I need to spend that extra money it's not like I can talk to 2 people at the same time. Sometimes it's annoying, but I gloat internally at the fact that I'll retire early while others will still be complaining and working.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Has anyone ever tried to make you feel bad about saving money
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2017, 02:28:38 AM »
I get it often, usually from my family. The biggest one that sticks out is my mom roasting me in front of my family at a big family gathering. She gave me a hard time over making xxx/yr and being too cheap to spring for call waiting, this was years ago when everyone still had home phones. I was like why do I need to spend that extra money it's not like I can talk to 2 people at the same time. Sometimes it's annoying, but I gloat internally at the fact that I'll retire early while others will still be complaining and working.

My mum has some years ago been telling me off for not wanting to buy a funeral insurance. And has threatened me to not pay for my funeral! I asked my brother who was also present at that time and still living at home with mum in his late 20ies. He said he had bought such an insurance just to shut her up. For you information, my mum has 90.000 euros in the bank and a paid off or almost paid of house. I could easily have paid ahead for her funeral and just have drawn it from the inheritance. I would even have paid for a funeral if she wouldn't have had any money left. That would have been such a natural thing to do.

My mother can often be so convinced of herself being right about things. And every person doing something else is per definition doing it wrong.