"Ironically, jobs are actually easier to enjoy than free time, because like flow activities they have built-in goals, feedback, rules, and challenges, all of which encourage one to become involved in one’s work, to concentrate, and lose oneself in it. Free time, on the other hand, is unstructured, and requires much greater effort to be shaped into something that can be enjoyed."
I've considered myself a mustachian for a couple years now, but after reading Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, I'm now considering if I'd actually be happier working a normal career. He makes a compelling argument that most people are actually happier and more often in a state a flow at work than on leisure, they just don't realize it. Or they refuse to realize it because there's cultural stigma where we are supposed to hate the 9-5 grind.
It's really got me thinking. While I'm sure I could certainly recreate flow experiences in retirement, would it not be easier just to enjoy the work I'm currently doing where the flow state is just kind of built in?
Bonus: I'm an ENTJ, so my core values are ambition, influence, persistence and logic. My ideal work roles are as a dynamic leader, analytical visionary, powerful influencer and creative innovator. Once again, while all of this might be achievable in retirement, is it not easier just to achieve all this by continuing to work?
I think the more and more I get into my career and begin to enjoy it, the less I want to retire at 30, which has been my goal for a couple of years now. I don't even really have a question per say. I just would appreciate thoughts and feedback on this line of thinking.
Thanks everybody.
I read the book like 15 years ago... it has some interesting concepts. Finding the right balance in order to be motivated but not overwhelmed.
The problem is that jobs do not always allow for this optimal situation. This is because the work place is typically designed with its primary objective being accomplishing a certain goal (make money, get the boss a promotion, etc...) rather than keeping the employee in a constant state of flow. It's often beneficial to the primary goal to have the employee in a flow state, but this would likely only be a secondary goal, or lower.
This is the big reason people here are looking to retire. They want it 'flow' (or whatever they want) to be their primary objective, not their secondary.
If you can make the stars align such that your primary objective at work is optimizing your own life goals, then you've hit the jack pot. Alternatively, you might shift your constraints so that your primary goal overlaps enough with the workplaces primary goals, without too much personal sacrifice. But often this is not possible, and this is why people are looking to GTFO.
Now, a separate topic is that it is important to keep a 'job' of sorts; a project, a set of goals, etc... This is the idea that in order to be optimally happy, people need structure in their life, to be constantly improving or achieving things, etc...
This is actually a fascinating concept... whether it is truly necessary. Dr Doom (the blogger; one of the very view FIRE bloggers that I like) writes about this concept. He found that he needed a lengthy decompression period after retiring. Immediately after retiring he always felt pressured to accomplish things. After some time, he was able to let this go, and tried to experience life without a need to be 'productive'. And then at some point he mysteriously dropped off the face of the Earth (stopped blogging).
So a critical question is whether people need to be constantly productive, in a 'flow' state, to be optimally happy. I think that there is research to support this; that productivity and 'flow' can lead to happiness. But on the other hand, I have not seen anything that proves that it is necessary; that there is mutual exclusivity.
In short, I think it is worth questioning the central premise of 'Flow', and approaching with an open mind. And the beauty of becoming financially independent is that it allows you to pursue that sort of self-exploration, without risk of disaster.
Based on your description of yourself and discussion of your personality types, it sounds like you're the type of person that's really into 'workplace bullshit'. Sorry if that sounds rude, I am not trying to be, it's just the simplest way for me to explain. I may simply be exposing my own ignorance in stating that. But, it reminds me of a friend of mine who described herself as being 'energized' by her corporate job. It totally made me role my eyes... but if that type stuff really drives you, than more power to you. To me, I cant take it seriously. To me, there is the hope that there MUST be more to life than the often mundane existence that standard careers bring. If I found out not, well, I think I'd dip into depression.
I have a career in science and technology... if I described my job in detail you might it's really cool (and technology wise it is), but really we're just trying to make more widgets to enable society to grow further to make money because... why? Is the primary objective to make people happy... e.g. to truly improve society? The answer is almost always no.
Now, there certainly are some jobs out that do this, but I think mostly this is not the case.
The world around us some many things, but it also has a whole of inane babble. Why do we need all of this stuff/shit that the world/economy is producing? How much of the product brings true value to life? Certainly this forum is largely anti-materialism. So if we dismiss that idea, what is the productivity of society for? Growth. But does the world really need to grow to be happy? Do we need to continually increase our population? We are a large ant colony building more widgits and bigger nests, growing, to what end? Eventually the ant colony gets too large. The world can only sustain so much life. But look deeper than simply survival. What world is worth living in? When the population gets so large that green spaces are gradually all eliminated, where people live so jam packed that you never have peace and quiet... is it a world worth living in?
I've rambled and gone on some tangents. I hope the thing you think about is what makes you happy any why. For me, most modern work places do not have overlapping primary goals with me. Not only that, they and society are taking the world on a trajectory which is unaligned with what I believe makes life worth living. If I were to keep one of these regular jobs, I would look back on my life on my deathbed and say 'what a waste!'.
There is more than one way to achieve 'flow'.