Author Topic: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?  (Read 66203 times)

rocksinmyhead

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #100 on: July 11, 2014, 07:20:06 AM »
I also live in NJ and was in a similar situation.

My SO and I have been together for 5 years. Around our 2nd year, he lost his job. He was on unemployment for almost a year before getting his job back. During his unemployment, I paid for everything. As soon as he got his job back, I required him to pay half of rent and utilities even though what he made a year was half of what I make.

Until we are married, he will continue to pay half of living expenses. The only thing I don't make him pay half of is groceries unless he buys ridiculous stuff.

"Required him"
"He will continue"
"Only thing I don't make him pay"

You sound like a fun person to date.

Haha. I sound harsh, but I was screwed over by my ex and then my current SO isn't very good with money so we've made sure to make things clear so that we don't end up fighting about these topics in the future.

FWIW I don't think you sound harsh and you are definitely doing the smart thing :)

soccerluvof4

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #101 on: July 11, 2014, 09:28:41 AM »
50/50. If you guys are planning on having any future together the fact that he doesn't want any equity in the place is mute and comforting only him. For now you each have a checking account. Any bills or expenditures you each pay half of.  If he doesn't like it and wants to move out ....well than maybe the future isn't so bright! If you lost your job would he go over and beyond to cover costs till you got back on your feet?

RetireAbroadAt35

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2014, 09:59:58 AM »
If you charge him market rent, are you going to give him his own room with a lock on the door that you will only enter under the same circumstances that a landlord would?  That seems kinda odd to me.

I'd give him a deal, considering that he's not just a roommate.  He's going to be expected to contribute to the household in other ways than just financial.

I think?

dragoncar

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #103 on: July 11, 2014, 11:10:24 AM »

Not sure if trolling, but I'll answer anyway: yes, it can go quite well. Since I'm currently out of a job, this is exactly what we're doing. If we talked and agreed I could stop looking for a stable job and just do freelance for 10k a year, then, well, we'd be working this out. If he thought I should look for something better while I just wanted to stay home scratching my ass, then we'd probably talk this over, he'd ask me why is it so important to scratch my ass, I'd say it makes me happy, he'd try to get me to go to the doctor, and when I refused we might argue and eventually end things, unless he understood the importance of ass scratching at his cost.

We're a couple, and we try not to make one-sided decisions.

Nope, this is my situation.  With made up numbers lets say I make $200k and have a $500k stache, which throws off around $10k in dividends per year.  My new wife makes $100k and has no stache.

While I'm working, I make 2x, so I pay 2/3 of the expenses.  Then, since my stache covers half our expenses, I retire.  Now I make 1/10 my wife.  Does that mean she should pay 9/10 the expenses?  If not, then there is a significant disconnect between pre-RE and post-RE scenarios.

To me, it would be fair for me to pay 50% pre RE (when I make 2x) and 50% post RE (when I make 1/10).  But I'm open to reasonable discussion on that front.

Not sure the point of your talk about scratching your ass.  Aren't most of us here to retire early?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 11:12:29 AM by dragoncar »

bikebum

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #104 on: July 11, 2014, 01:38:16 PM »
Different strokes for different folks. Our split is kinda funky right now because she is still in school. Once she's done, we probably won't base the split in proportion to income because it seems arbitrary for us. I may downshift to part-time work or work full-time, she may work at a school and have short days and summer off, or she may work full-time all year and have income from a side business too. We'll probably look at our shared expenses and figure out what is fair for who to pay how much. Then we can both do whatever we want job wise as long as we cover our fair share. If either of us has a problem paying our share we'll help each other out.

For those who split based on proportion of income, what counts as income? Gross, net, do you count income which is invested for retirement? I hope it's OK for me to ask as the thread has taken off and OP has not been back for a while.

tepster

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #105 on: July 12, 2014, 06:00:18 PM »
Wow, I cannot believe how much attention this post received! I'm thankful for so many helpful opinions, even those whose red flags were raised.

We haven't had the official talk yet, per se, but I did learn today he owes a bit of money from being in school and jobless (he was looking for work, which one poster questioned, and was close to joining the reserves, which he did not want to do): $1500 to parents and $2500 to credit card. Guess that's how he bought his mouthwash. He did indicate that once he's on his feet and pays back the cash loan, he plans to help me pay off my student loans and household bills and "I can have all the money I need." That's fine and would amount to even more than 50% of bills (maybe his thank-you for a free nine months?), but I'd prefer something more structured than "all I need," so I will revisit in Aug. as planned. He prefers an informal and uncomplicated arrangement and thus wonders why this is stressing me out. We will split groceries this month; I bought the first round and if we run out, he can either starve or buy more.

As promised, I will keep you updated on our eventual decision. He will pick up a few extra shifts at work to pay parents back faster.

I appreciate all the advice, even the relationship advice. We're not talking marriage (maybe waaaay into the future, but I am divorced and not ready for that again) but are committed for the time being. Neither of us want kids, so all I have to protect is my assets. I will seriously take into consideration a written, binding agreement re: house, much to his certain chagrin.

P.S. Hmm, I never wondered about my dad's feelings. I'm certain no one is good enough for me in his eyes! Dad is my contractor so there's not much house-fixin' for the BF to do. He should do the lawn though, and I haven't given in about it. Sadly, the lawn hasn't been cut, either. Plan to withhold, um, my non monetary goodies until it's cut....

EDIT: Oops, but I did ask for my dad's advice last weekend. He said "50%, certainly."
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 06:35:00 PM by tepster »

DMoney

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #106 on: July 12, 2014, 07:38:05 PM »
Tepster,
Thanks for the update.  I have no advice to give as I haven't been in this situation, but I've been thinking about you.  Hope it all works out for the best! 

And your "withholding goodies" comment made me chuckle out loud!


2unwind

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #107 on: July 12, 2014, 07:56:23 PM »
I'd give him a deal, considering that he's not just a roommate.  He's going to be expected to contribute to the household in other ways than just financial.

BullS#!T.  Everyone need s to carry there fair share.

Melody

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #108 on: July 13, 2014, 12:34:07 AM »
Half of the bills he would have as a renter (e.g. internet, power etc, but not garbage collection or property taxes) plus whatever the fair market value for 50% of the rent of an equivalent house in your neighborhood. In exchange any house related costs (property taxes, fixing the broken plumbing etc) are your problem and he should not be expected to contribute. In other words, treat him as a renter.
This is fair, as "shoe on the other foot" he doesn't want to gain equity so he shouldn't be paying your mortgage and mortgage + additional costs of home ownership over renting is generally > rent.  So this is a fair outcome for him too.

farmstache

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2014, 09:07:55 AM »
Nope, this is my situation.  With made up numbers lets say I make $200k and have a $500k stache, which throws off around $10k in dividends per year.  My new wife makes $100k and has no stache.

While I'm working, I make 2x, so I pay 2/3 of the expenses.  Then, since my stache covers half our expenses, I retire.  Now I make 1/10 my wife.  Does that mean she should pay 9/10 the expenses?  If not, then there is a significant disconnect between pre-RE and post-RE scenarios.

To me, it would be fair for me to pay 50% pre RE (when I make 2x) and 50% post RE (when I make 1/10).  But I'm open to reasonable discussion on that front.

Not sure the point of your talk about scratching your ass.  Aren't most of us here to retire early?

Oh, that's actually pretty cool!

The ass scratching is because I'm pretty sure we could work things out much better if I actually had plans and motivation to quit working right now and leave him with the majority of the burden (say, having kids, or starting my own business). If I just wanted to sit at home all day... the negotiation would be harder and probably wouldn't fit with our partnership.

I think it depends on what you're negotiating with her. I personally wouldn't think it fair. Say you spend 60k a year just so my math is easier (100k is so absurd I'm not going there). You pay for 40k and she pays for 20k. You're saving 160k a year, and she's saving 80k. This is fair, to a certain point, but I would still tweak it. If you paid 50/50, you'd be paying 30k each. Your savings would increase a little and hers would decrease in 12.5% (a lot!). And say you retire right now and start contributing only 10k. She'll need to pay 50k, right, and only be able to save 50k. So basically you'll delay her own retirement funds in several years, because you wanted to retire early *at her cost*. That's unfair to me, but it's up to you guys. Now if you managed to lower expenses so you pay 10k and she still pays like 20k, I'd be fine with that.

On the other hand, you're right: I never considered different rates of retirement for separate finances.

CommonCents

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #110 on: July 14, 2014, 09:40:17 AM »
Nope, this is my situation.  With made up numbers lets say I make $200k and have a $500k stache, which throws off around $10k in dividends per year.  My new wife makes $100k and has no stache.

While I'm working, I make 2x, so I pay 2/3 of the expenses.  Then, since my stache covers half our expenses, I retire.  Now I make 1/10 my wife.  Does that mean she should pay 9/10 the expenses?  If not, then there is a significant disconnect between pre-RE and post-RE scenarios.

To me, it would be fair for me to pay 50% pre RE (when I make 2x) and 50% post RE (when I make 1/10).  But I'm open to reasonable discussion on that front.

Not sure the point of your talk about scratching your ass.  Aren't most of us here to retire early?

Oh, that's actually pretty cool!

The ass scratching is because I'm pretty sure we could work things out much better if I actually had plans and motivation to quit working right now and leave him with the majority of the burden (say, having kids, or starting my own business). If I just wanted to sit at home all day... the negotiation would be harder and probably wouldn't fit with our partnership.

I think it depends on what you're negotiating with her. I personally wouldn't think it fair. Say you spend 60k a year just so my math is easier (100k is so absurd I'm not going there). You pay for 40k and she pays for 20k. You're saving 160k a year, and she's saving 80k. This is fair, to a certain point, but I would still tweak it. If you paid 50/50, you'd be paying 30k each. Your savings would increase a little and hers would decrease in 12.5% (a lot!). And say you retire right now and start contributing only 10k. She'll need to pay 50k, right, and only be able to save 50k. So basically you'll delay her own retirement funds in several years, because you wanted to retire early *at her cost*. That's unfair to me, but it's up to you guys. Now if you managed to lower expenses so you pay 10k and she still pays like 20k, I'd be fine with that.

On the other hand, you're right: I never considered different rates of retirement for separate finances.

Yeah, retiring early when you have separate finances and very disparate incomes is quite tricky and apt to not pass the "fairness" smell test.  I can't say what feels right in all circumstances (and of course, people would have their own individual takes on this and it's only the couple's perspective that matters), but I'd venture to say that as a guideline consider perhaps consider retiring only if you can pay no less than 50% of the expenses.  That way you don't retire at your partner's expense, per farmstache's point.

dragoncar

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #111 on: July 14, 2014, 10:31:56 AM »
Nope, this is my situation.  With made up numbers lets say I make $200k and have a $500k stache, which throws off around $10k in dividends per year.  My new wife makes $100k and has no stache.

While I'm working, I make 2x, so I pay 2/3 of the expenses.  Then, since my stache covers half our expenses, I retire.  Now I make 1/10 my wife.  Does that mean she should pay 9/10 the expenses?  If not, then there is a significant disconnect between pre-RE and post-RE scenarios.

To me, it would be fair for me to pay 50% pre RE (when I make 2x) and 50% post RE (when I make 1/10).  But I'm open to reasonable discussion on that front.

Not sure the point of your talk about scratching your ass.  Aren't most of us here to retire early?

Oh, that's actually pretty cool!

The ass scratching is because I'm pretty sure we could work things out much better if I actually had plans and motivation to quit working right now and leave him with the majority of the burden (say, having kids, or starting my own business). If I just wanted to sit at home all day... the negotiation would be harder and probably wouldn't fit with our partnership.

I think it depends on what you're negotiating with her. I personally wouldn't think it fair. Say you spend 60k a year just so my math is easier (100k is so absurd I'm not going there). You pay for 40k and she pays for 20k. You're saving 160k a year, and she's saving 80k. This is fair, to a certain point, but I would still tweak it. If you paid 50/50, you'd be paying 30k each. Your savings would increase a little and hers would decrease in 12.5% (a lot!). And say you retire right now and start contributing only 10k. She'll need to pay 50k, right, and only be able to save 50k. So basically you'll delay her own retirement funds in several years, because you wanted to retire early *at her cost*. That's unfair to me, but it's up to you guys. Now if you managed to lower expenses so you pay 10k and she still pays like 20k, I'd be fine with that.

On the other hand, you're right: I never considered different rates of retirement for separate finances.

Yeah, retiring early when you have separate finances and very disparate incomes is quite tricky and apt to not pass the "fairness" smell test.  I can't say what feels right in all circumstances (and of course, people would have their own individual takes on this and it's only the couple's perspective that matters), but I'd venture to say that as a guideline consider perhaps consider retiring only if you can pay no less than 50% of the expenses.  That way you don't retire at your partner's expense, per farmstache's point.

Uh, no shit?  That's what I'm saying.  I'll retire with the ability to pay 50% of expenses.  But then it wouldn't be fair to split expenses by income, "per farmstache's point."  If our expenses are $40k, I $20k income in retirement to pay my 50%.  But wait, my spouse is not RE and earns $100k.  So should she pay 83% expenses and I pay 17%?  No, that's dumb.

But then flip it around.  I'm not retired yet.  I earn 200k and my spouse earns 100k.  Now should I pay 66%?  Many here would argue yes.  But then it's not consistent with the feeling above, that I should pay at least 50% in retirement, but my spouse should not pay at least 50% pre-retirement.

... ok I edited this multiple times and I still have no idea what farmstache is talking about... my whole point is that it's not fair for me to contribute only 10%.  But that's how the "split according to income" approach would work out once I retire and only make a small amount of interest and dividends.  Unfair... better to go 50/50.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 10:39:17 AM by dragoncar »

CommonCents

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #112 on: July 14, 2014, 10:45:43 AM »
... ok I edited this multiple times and I still have no idea what farmstache is talking about... my whole point is that it's not fair for me to contribute only 10%. 

It's all good.  We're all agreeing.  While an income split may work for many in many instances, it's problematic in this situation.

dragoncar

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #113 on: July 14, 2014, 11:02:23 AM »
... ok I edited this multiple times and I still have no idea what farmstache is talking about... my whole point is that it's not fair for me to contribute only 10%. 

It's all good.  We're all agreeing.  While an income split may work for many in many instances, it's problematic in this situation.

I hate it when that happens... make it so hard to have a nice argument like regular people.

RetireAbroadAt35

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #114 on: July 14, 2014, 02:57:20 PM »
BullS#!T.  Everyone need s to carry there fair share.

Hey now, I'm not calling for anybody to get a free ride there buddy.  I'm pointing out a potential discrepancy on the value of the BF renting from the OP as opposed to renting from a stranger.  From a purely financial perspective, if the BF were to rent a room in a house he'd get more square footage (private room, etc) at a market rate that would probably be paying less than 50%.

Many folks have suggested paying "market rate".  But what is market rate for a live-in BF sharing a room and a bed with the owner?  I don't think market rate means anything here.  I don't know that 50% makes sense either given that finances are kept separate and OP gets the equity.

I suspect the answer is somewhere in the middle and depends on more than just financial considerations.


Quote
Tepster:
We haven't had the official talk yet, per se, but I did learn today he owes a bit of money from being in school and jobless
This strikes me as a potential big red flag.  Your BF/roommate sounds like he could really use some facepunches.  It's no wonder he wants to keep it "informal" (i.e. so he doesn't have to get his act together).  I may be reading too much into your posts but I think you're right to be concerned about finances.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 03:01:02 PM by RetireAbroadAt35 »

Melody

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #115 on: July 14, 2014, 04:01:58 PM »
Another way of thinking about market rate: if op.and bf rented an equivalent house and paid half each what we he pay. Why should he pay less than this (or more than this) just because she owns the house.

The exception to this scenario is if partner A is quite happy to rent the $200 a week house but partner b insists on the $300 a week house, then there could be an argument to split the rent $100/$200 so partner a is not disadvantaged by partner b's spendy ways.

farmstache

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #116 on: July 14, 2014, 04:09:59 PM »
It's all good.  We're all agreeing.  While an income split may work for many in many instances, it's problematic in this situation.

I hate it when that happens... make it so hard to have a nice argument like regular people.

Hahaha yes.

Anyway, yes, we're agreeing. Basically every situation should be assessed individually. :)

scrubbyfish

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #117 on: July 14, 2014, 11:06:38 PM »
He prefers an informal and uncomplicated arrangement and thus wonders why this is stressing me out.

Hopefully this does not apply in your case, but this worried me a bit...only because when I moved in with my last partner, he required everything to be casual, informal, uncomplicated...with nothing in writing, and nothing discussed. After a year, he was still holding that position, I was about to start losing $5000/yr due to the intersection of tax and "family" laws, he was voluntarily -and without my knowledge- gifting his ex-wife with $20,000, and he refused to discuss a cohabitation agreement which would allow me to protect my assets in various scenarios. And I still had no idea what he earned, etc. That's when I moved out.

Almost two years later, I just finished reading the book Living With the Passive-Aggressive Man (Wetzler), which presented this kind of issue in some cases as part of a bigger pattern.

Melody

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #118 on: July 15, 2014, 05:30:18 PM »
Wow! This sucks...
Glad you left and are ok now.
I will keep this in mind if BF and I move in together.

farmstache

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #119 on: July 15, 2014, 06:35:48 PM »
For those who split based on proportion of income, what counts as income? Gross, net, do you count income which is invested for retirement? I hope it's OK for me to ask as the thread has taken off and OP has not been back for a while.

Oh, yeah.

Well, here the retirement fund works a little differently (no options, no rolling, no loans from it, etc), and it's always a set percentage of gross depending on income level, so we just do net income. I got my paycheck, calculated 60%, transferred to our joint account. But as I said, we started this with pretty similar income ranges. If things changed (as they are right now) we would revisit.

Right now, we are joining 100% of our income minus $125 per month for personal expenses. Next year this might change again if I get a new stable job.

puglogic

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #120 on: July 15, 2014, 10:16:58 PM »
When I warned him the conversation was coming, he made the comment: "I have a feeling you're going to ask for some crazy high amount since I lived here free all this time..."

"Crazy high amount" ?   Manipulative.  Hm. 

Half of the mortgage + utilities.  That's fair in EVERY sense, regardless of what you've already covered for him.



scrubbyfish

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #121 on: July 15, 2014, 11:01:50 PM »
Wow! This sucks...
Glad you left and are ok now.
I will keep this in mind if BF and I move in together.

Thanks, Melody. Yes, I'm so glad I moved to protect my son (not his child) and I, and we are doing well! In that scenario/process, I learned so much about family law, tax law, etc, that I simply hadn't had a clue about before moving in with him. Luckily, my accountant "woke me up" in time (and a family law lawyer said something to the effect of "run, run away!"). If my experience helps even a few other people check the laws, etc, before cohabitating, I'll be so happy!

pipercat

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2014, 07:23:58 AM »
He prefers an informal and uncomplicated arrangement and thus wonders why this is stressing me out.

In my opinion, "informal" does not equal "uncomplicated".  I think "informal" in this case can mean unstructured, undefined, and loose.  That can actually end up being quite "complicated" in the end!  Good luck with the talk!

CommonCents

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #123 on: July 16, 2014, 08:47:01 AM »
Wow! This sucks...
Glad you left and are ok now.
I will keep this in mind if BF and I move in together.

Thanks, Melody. Yes, I'm so glad I moved to protect my son (not his child) and I, and we are doing well! In that scenario/process, I learned so much about family law, tax law, etc, that I simply hadn't had a clue about before moving in with him. Luckily, my accountant "woke me up" in time (and a family law lawyer said something to the effect of "run, run away!"). If my experience helps even a few other people check the laws, etc, before cohabitating, I'll be so happy!

Just a note, but I think scrubbyfish lives in Canada, where there are laws regarding common law marriage after two years I think.

For those in the US, there are very few states that have common law marriage anymore, and some of those that do, impose dates on when it needed to occur by to be valid, or NH for example only allows it for inheritance purposes (so there's no divorce required to separate).  In PA, for example, I recall it ended while I was living there, in 2006 I think, maybe 2007.

Also, in the US, it generally requires more than just cohabitation, but also holding yourself out as a married couple.  (Now, of course, you can still get into issues such as whether you've created a landlord/tenant situation that creates obligations...this is just to reassure people regarding family law.)

farmstache

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #124 on: July 16, 2014, 09:12:11 AM »
I know I'm making this even more off-topic, but where I live the common law marriage is regarded as a safety net, not as a liability. Some people don't even bother getting married, because legally everything is sorted out.

What's the advantage of not having common law marriage?

clarkfan1979

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #125 on: July 16, 2014, 09:16:09 AM »
I think 50/50 would be taking advantage of him because you would be gaining equity in the house. I would vote for a 33/66 or 40/60 split.

CommonCents

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2014, 09:38:16 AM »
I know I'm making this even more off-topic, but where I live the common law marriage is regarded as a safety net, not as a liability. Some people don't even bother getting married, because legally everything is sorted out.

What's the advantage of not having common law marriage?

You live in a totally different country so I can't speak to anything there.

My imperfect and general understanding is that common law marriages are actually a holdover from a time when there were not enough priests around to marry folks.  They'd have traveling priests, who might swing by once a year (or less) to marry people.  But in that time, kids are born, etc., and maybe someone would die resulting in inheritance issues etc.  So folks entered into an unofficial form of marriage that was considered legally binding.  They held themselves out as married (e.g. called themselves married and they acted like they were married), and they lived together. 

Now, inability to find someone to marry you isn't a problem.  So there no longer is a necessity for this form of marriage, as anyone can pretty much go and get married with a trip to get a license/town hall etc.

/end digression

allergic2average

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #127 on: July 16, 2014, 06:48:56 PM »
I'll be quick about it. My boyfriend needed a career change and quit his job to move to my state (just 90 miles away) and into my home. Therefore, he had been jobless and going to school for 9 months. I asked for no money during that time, not even groceries, which is why we never previously discussed shared finances. Last month he found a good-paying job ($20+/hr). Next month I will bring up the subject about his financial share.

What is fair to ask of him? The facts: He does not want equity in my house ($1500 monthly mortgage). Utilities are a sparse $450 per month. I make $85k+. He was previously paying $900 total rent/utilities. I live in NJ, very high cost of living. Apartments here do not go for under $1k/month.

Do I suggest a proportion of total monthly household costs (say, 33% and 66%?) His previous rent? Half his previous rent? Half of utilities?

Thank you in advance!

I believe that before you start having a conversation about what he will contribute from his financial share, you should first have a conversation as to how money is used in your relationship from this point forward, not just in rent or utilities, but in all facets of your life.  Will you be the couple that pools all of your money together regardless of who makes more?  That means that all costs of living whether it be utilities, mortgage, food, toilet paper, gas money, haircuts, clothes, entertainment, hobbies, vacation, etc. would come from that pool. Your money is his money and his money is your money.  Or will you be the couple that pools only certain costs of living: mortgage, utilities, food, (insert your example here), and then what is left over is your own personal money.  So in this case there would be three monies: your money, his money, and us money.  This is a very important conversation to have especially since he's already been there more than 9 months.  Is this relationship heading towards marriage?  If you don't know then now is the time to discuss that because it will affect you financially and the decisions you make with your money. 

Goldielocks

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2014, 10:00:55 PM »
I know I'm making this even more off-topic, but where I live the common law marriage is regarded as a safety net, not as a liability. Some people don't even bother getting married, because legally everything is sorted out.

What's the advantage of not having common law marriage?

You live in a totally different country so I can't speak to anything there.

My imperfect and general understanding is that common law marriages are actually a holdover from a time when there were not enough priests around to marry folks.  They'd have traveling priests, who might swing by once a year (or less) to marry people.  But in that time, kids are born, etc., and maybe someone would die resulting in inheritance issues etc.  So folks entered into an unofficial form of marriage that was considered legally binding.  They held themselves out as married (e.g. called themselves married and they acted like they were married), and they lived together. 

Now, inability to find someone to marry you isn't a problem.  So there no longer is a necessity for this form of marriage, as anyone can pretty much go and get married with a trip to get a license/town hall etc.

/end digression
. I believe in Canada it started as a need to protect children in such a relationship, followed by rights to share medical and other benefits and inheritance.  Eg homes went to a distant relative instead of common law partner.

SummerLovin

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2014, 10:27:14 PM »
50/50 on utilities and food and market rate for 1 BR apt. When and if you get married, he'll get whatever equity you have so don't stress too much.  Good luck getting him to start paying for something he has been getting for free.  Get a rental contract written up now.  Since he's lived there so long, even if he decided to pay nothing, you'd have to go through standard landlord / tenant eviction process.
Just remember. if you're dreading this conversation now, image what it will be like if you decide to get married and/or combine finances.

scrubbyfish

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #130 on: July 17, 2014, 12:47:35 PM »
Just a note, but I think scrubbyfish lives in Canada, where there are laws regarding common law marriage after two years I think.

Two years, one year, or a few months, depending on which set(s) of laws apply in one's situation, as well as which province they live in, etc.

Also, in the US, it generally requires more than just cohabitation, but also holding yourself out as a married couple.

The "presenting oneself as married" factors in somewhat here, too, but the various government departments can make a very loose case around this. My big, scary wake-up call was cemented for me when I read federal income tax court cases (details available online, free). It was mind-blowing what relationships the government was managing to reframe so as to reduce benefits or impose higher taxes. All totally well and good if people know what they're getting into when they become "roommates" or "landlord/tenant" or "friends living together".

Same sex, opposite sex, no sex, past sex, future sex...presenting selves as roommates, presenting selves as friends, presenting selves as tenant/landlord...sharing finances, not sharing finances...all these nuances have been addressed. The Canadian government, at least, is now also onto the "Living Alone Together" (LAT) approach. If the government believes two people are merged in even the loosest variation of "marriage-like", it can dictate financial rules accordingly. This can quite dramatically impact a person's finances.

In at least one case, two people lived in a big house with a bunch of others, eventually became a couple and moved into their own place, and declared themselves common law (reducing their tax benefits) upon a year of living together in a marriage-like relationship, as required by the relevant law. The government sued them for past tax liabilities on the presentation that they were really common law the years they had both been in a shared house -despite their protestations that they hadn't been a couple during those years.

Reading the cases made clear for me that the government is serious about increasing a tax liability for couples, and will get very, er, stretchy in interpreting two people's relationship in order to be able to do so. That is to say, it's not just how we see or present ourselves, or what relationship we negotiate privately with a partner. In some regions, there's a third character in the cohabitation/finances picture, whether we want there to be or not.

And then, all the same cautions apply if we're establishing a landlord/tenant relationship! We can become responsible for things we may not want to be responsible for, required to give a person oodles of notice if we want to take the space back to ourselves or be penalized heftily, etc.

A primary criteria for me now in living with someone is that they are willing to know the laws that apply in any potential scenario, rather than just wing it, assume laws don't apply or ignore them, etc. Just too risky in my case, and I think for at least a few others, too.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 03:08:16 AM by scrubbyfish »

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #131 on: July 18, 2014, 09:11:17 AM »
For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.

If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.

viper155

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #132 on: July 18, 2014, 03:25:45 PM »
For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.

If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.

When you are married EVERYTHING is 50/50 except effort. That's 100%

solon

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #133 on: July 18, 2014, 03:36:04 PM »
For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.

If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.

When you are married EVERYTHING is 50/50 except effort. That's 100%

No, when you're married, everything is 100/100. There is no "his" and "hers", it's all "ours".

dragoncar

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #134 on: July 18, 2014, 06:00:56 PM »
For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.

If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.

When you are married EVERYTHING is 50/50 except effort. That's 100%

No, when you're married, everything is 100/100. There is no "his" and "hers", it's all "ours".

False.  My towel is clearly monogrammed "his"

JoyBlogette

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #135 on: July 20, 2014, 07:30:06 AM »
For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.

If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.

When you are married EVERYTHING is 50/50 except effort. That's 100%

While I agree that effort is 100% when married, for finances 50/50 doesn't always work out.  I made 2x my DH salary.  To expect him to pay half of everything is unfair.

samburger

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #136 on: July 20, 2014, 08:36:57 AM »
He did indicate that once he's on his feet and pays back the cash loan, he plans to help me pay off my student loans and household bills and "I can have all the money I need." That's fine and would amount to even more than 50% of bills (maybe his thank-you for a free nine months?), but I'd prefer something more structured than "all I need," so I will revisit in Aug. as planned. He prefers an informal and uncomplicated arrangement and thus wonders why this is stressing me out. We will split groceries this month; I bought the first round and if we run out, he can either starve or buy more.

Stand your ground, tepster! Your dude sounds like he's a total manbaby when it comes to money. He gets to pay off all his debt in full before he has to think about contributing to your household? Hah!

You're too generous. If you want to be generous, that's fine, but know that you're cutting him a ton of slack and you can reel it in at any time. I'm guessing that "all the money you need" is the sort of wishy-washy bullshit financial planning that makes him feel good but never quite pans out as expected--if he doesn't have a number in mind, how will he know how to allocate his money? Definitely keep him accountable.

Let us know how it goes!

tepster

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #137 on: August 02, 2014, 12:36:16 PM »
Hello again, and thanks for the advice. We talked about the financial situation moving forward and it went better than I expected. As you have surmised, communicating this after living together for so many months was weird and his communication skills are not excellent. But he actually brought up the subject by indicating he needed my bank account to transfer some money to me: 30% of an actual cash loan I lent him. Fine, and I didn't even need to say it, he admitted himself: "I shouldn't be eating out or buying anything if I owe you money." I replied: I'm glad we agree about that. (I can, however, understand the feeling of finally having money after being unemployed for nine months. That deserves a take-out or two.) I didn't voice this last thought :)

I presented to him a list of options moving forward. If you're interested in the options (compiled 100% from all your suggestions, thanks!) I listed them below. He chose a 60/40 household bill split, which I feel good about. He won't start contributing immediately; he is still on work probation for 1-2 more months, at which point his job is secure and he'll get a $5 raise. As someone in this thread mentioned, this was a big step for us both, so simply discussing and coming to an agreement has made me feel better and more appreciated as a partner: I can wait two more months for his money. I told him that I'm sure he feels I don't need the money since I can comfortable pay all of the bills by myself, but he interrupted and said of course you need the money, and it's only fair. I want to contribute. Plus, two years ago he was there for me financially in a big way when all my cash assets were frozen during a legal dispute.

Here are the options:
Option 1: Split all household bills 50/50 based on hourly income (this sucks, because he can work tons of overtime at my regular hourly rate, but I am salaried. Also the cheapest option)
Option 2: 50/50 split of household bills
Option 3: 60/40 split of household bills
Option 4: 1/2 utilities and market rate apt
Option 5: 1/2 utilities, house ins, property tax, and "price for a bed" (the non-equity option)
Option 6: His old rent and 1/2 our utilities (most expensive option)

I also showed him the average $ for all of those options to show the middle ground. The 60/40 split (option 3) is only $30 under the average.

Thanks again for all of the great discussions and suggestions. MMM rocks!

P.S. I had to break down and hire mowers. He is paying half.

okashira

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #138 on: August 02, 2014, 12:52:29 PM »
Hello again, and thanks for the advice. We talked about the financial situation moving forward and it went better than I expected. As you have surmised, communicating this after living together for so many months was weird and his communication skills are not excellent. But he actually brought up the subject by indicating he needed my bank account to transfer some money to me: 30% of an actual cash loan I lent him. Fine, and I didn't even need to say it, he admitted himself: "I shouldn't be eating out or buying anything if I owe you money." I replied: I'm glad we agree about that. (I can, however, understand the feeling of finally having money after being unemployed for nine months. That deserves a take-out or two.) I didn't voice this last thought :)

I presented to him a list of options moving forward. If you're interested in the options (compiled 100% from all your suggestions, thanks!) I listed them below. He chose a 60/40 household bill split, which I feel good about. He won't start contributing immediately; he is still on work probation for 1-2 more months, at which point his job is secure and he'll get a $5 raise. As someone in this thread mentioned, this was a big step for us both, so simply discussing and coming to an agreement has made me feel better and more appreciated as a partner: I can wait two more months for his money. I told him that I'm sure he feels I don't need the money since I can comfortable pay all of the bills by myself, but he interrupted and said of course you need the money, and it's only fair. I want to contribute. Plus, two years ago he was there for me financially in a big way when all my cash assets were frozen during a legal dispute.

Here are the options:
Option 1: Split all household bills 50/50 based on hourly income (this sucks, because he can work tons of overtime at my regular hourly rate, but I am salaried. Also the cheapest option)
Option 2: 50/50 split of household bills
Option 3: 60/40 split of household bills
Option 4: 1/2 utilities and market rate apt
Option 5: 1/2 utilities, house ins, property tax, and "price for a bed" (the non-equity option)
Option 6: His old rent and 1/2 our utilities (most expensive option)

I also showed him the average $ for all of those options to show the middle ground. The 60/40 split (option 3) is only $30 under the average.

Thanks again for all of the great discussions and suggestions. MMM rocks!

P.S. I had to break down and hire mowers. He is paying half.

Mow it yourself. Then we will find out what kind of man he is. :-D
Make sure you do it when he is home.

DarinC

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #139 on: August 02, 2014, 02:16:32 PM »
IF you were married, your student debt would be his and vice versa, so go ahead --  add in all your debt repayment schedule to the mix of household expenses, then divy it up at 85k/125K 68% for you, and 40k/125K  32% for him.  (assuming $20/hr is roughly 40k per year)

Oh yeah,  look to see when you can claim the "married filing jointly" tax return and see if that helps you too!
Her debt should remain with her even if they did marry. The impact of income on student loan repayment includes his income only if they file jointly. Currently, the tax system seems to be set up to slightly reward married filing separately, which is what my wife and I do given her student loan debts. After inflation, it's cheaper for her to make the IBR minimum and save enough to make the lump sum payment on income tax to the IRS when they're "forgiven".

In terms of the expenses, I'm with everyone else. 50/50 or income based. The only exception I can think of is if he wants to step in a do some stuff himself. If he's handy, and can fix something that someone would charge Y for, then he should have Y deducted from his costs.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 02:19:28 PM by DarinC »

defenestrate

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #140 on: August 02, 2014, 09:47:38 PM »
Viper is right. You should charge market rate period. If you think market rate is too high, then be generous with the money in other areas--buy more groceries, purchase the bee and wine, etc..

You will be glad you are charging market rate if something ever goes wrong in the relationship--it lowers his switching cost to another apartment. You can always choose what to do with his money, and if you choose to share it, then that is yours (not his) choice.

CommonCents

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #141 on: August 04, 2014, 09:59:29 AM »
After they've had a nice open discussion and reached agreement, it seems rather wrong to me to turn around and whip the rug out from under him and say hey, never mind, I really want 50/50 even though I presented many options I claimed I'd be willing to do.  I think they've reached an agreement that works for them, and we should all probably back out now and not tell her to back out on her promise and change their agreement.  Hopefully(!) they've either agreed to discuss at a natural point (e.g. one year, or when job changes, etc.), or she feels comfortable bringing it up at those times later anyways.

Goldielocks

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #142 on: August 06, 2014, 12:18:20 AM »
IF you were married, your student debt would be his and vice versa, so go ahead --  add in all your debt repayment schedule to the mix of household expenses, then divy it up at 85k/125K 68% for you, and 40k/125K  32% for him.  (assuming $20/hr is roughly 40k per year)

Oh yeah,  look to see when you can claim the "married filing jointly" tax return and see if that helps you too!
Her debt should remain with her even if they did marry. The impact of income on student loan repayment includes his income only if they file jointly. Currently, the tax system seems to be set up to slightly reward married filing separately, which is what my wife and I do given her student loan debts. After inflation, it's cheaper for her to make the IBR minimum and save enough to make the lump sum payment on income tax to the IRS when they're "forgiven".


I do realize that- logically and to protect oneself,- there is a place in modern messy relationship structures to consider legal  prenups, separate accounts before official marriage, keeping debts separately accounted for, but truly, " logic" did not seem to be the underlying tone in OP posting..  So my response is highly focused on the fundamental relationship tennents about why someone would willingly choose to put herself in this scenario.  I definitely read a tone of wanting a long committed relationship.

So...

Who cares what the legal answer is...  If you are living as married, morally it does not really matter when you die at age 90 after a life together.  Somewhere along the way, you have paid debts (or not ) together out of household monies. And did so making mutual decisions.

Now if I am wrong, and OP is living with bf and paying everything and not intending a long relationship.... Then maybe just enjoy the sugar daddy aspect and not ask for repayment?   

Note "sugar daddy is not MMM and is worthy of financial censure from this board"

rmendpara

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #143 on: August 06, 2014, 03:19:21 AM »
Here are the options:
Option 1: Split all household bills 50/50 based on hourly income (this sucks, because he can work tons of overtime at my regular hourly rate, but I am salaried. Also the cheapest option)
Option 2: 50/50 split of household bills
Option 3: 60/40 split of household bills
Option 4: 1/2 utilities and market rate apt
Option 5: 1/2 utilities, house ins, property tax, and "price for a bed" (the non-equity option)
Option 6: His old rent and 1/2 our utilities (most expensive option)

I also showed him the average $ for all of those options to show the middle ground. The 60/40 split (option 3) is only $30 under the average.

Thanks again for all of the great discussions and suggestions. MMM rocks!

P.S. I had to break down and hire mowers. He is paying half.

I suppose the important thing is you two talked and have a solution that makes you both happy with one another. That's the only important thing.

Things like money shouldn't come in between a relationship. Keep it that way.

scrubbyfish

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #144 on: August 06, 2014, 10:38:44 AM »
I just wanted to say how grateful I am for this forum, including for this thread.

I've learned so much on this thread about how different couples/families treat finances together. I had learned all my "relationship money" lessons the very hard way, because I had absolutely no information or knowledge about how money is handled in healthy relationships. Every time we talk about this anywhere on the forum, I am listening in with great interest, intrigue, and care. I am fascinated by the positive experiences, awesome communication, and resulting trust that several couples have experienced/are experiencing. It's beautiful!

I love hearing how successful relationships deal with money, so thanks everyone who is in one of those for sharing that!

couponvan

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #145 on: October 28, 2014, 04:18:17 PM »
I hope things have worked out now that the probation period has ended and the new expense agreement is starting.

JGR

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Re: How much to "charge" live-in boyfriend?
« Reply #146 on: October 28, 2014, 07:27:24 PM »
What really bothers me is that HE HAS NOT STEPPED UP and offered to pay his share now that he is employed.  This should have been one of the first things that he said to you after, "Honey, I just got a job.  Now, I can pull my weight around here."  Sad that this is on you to bring up and feel uncomfortable about.  I think you should suggest a number that YOU feel comfortable with and discuss it with him.  You should set some financial boundaries.  I am also a big fan of automatic debits in this situation.  You don't want to be chasing him for money.  It's demeaning and annoying.