The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: iwanttobelive on August 04, 2013, 09:45:30 PM
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Hello,
Edit: Due to some worrying about someone taking this information and using it wrong, I deleted the original post.
Edit2: I decided to modify all my posts to have just bullet points and less detail.
Back ground was:
-Graduated college with a business degree 6 months ago.
-Used lots of advice from MMM to cut living costs down. Asked for advice on how to find work and what to do for my living situation.
-Lost housing, currently living in a motel and using emergency fund
-Moved across the country to a part of the midwest where I had family
-Family unable to help with housing
-Student loans are currently due, $400 a month
-Can't find work anywhere doing anything! All Rejection!
-Im in my late 20's , clean background and with almost 10 years of job history, except the last few years where I was going to school full time.
-Feeling depressed
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You are 28, no children, no family to support, no financial obligations except your student loan, completely mobile, well educated and relatively healthy. Despite your current situation, I would see these as positive factors. I am sure you will get some good advice here. My own advice, if I were your age and in your situation, would be to get the heck out of North America as fast as you can, and I am not kidding. The American Dream, if it ever existed, is dead. In my case, I would look at options such as teaching English as a Second Language somewhere in Asia. Armed with your undergrad and possibly a short ESL teaching certificate, your chances of finding immediate employment in places like Thailand, China, Taiwan, Japan, etc. are excellent. You won't make a fortune, but you will live much better than most of your fellow Americans living like drones in a Fantasy world where success is measured by the size of your SUV and the square footage of your house. Another option which I did a few years back was to take a PADI Divemaster course. You can become certified in a couple of months and find employment practically immediately. I did that back in 2007 and spent almost a year in Thailand as a divemaster with the resort that trained me. While my salary was mediocre by North American standards, it afforded me the kind of luxury and easy paced lifestyle that money cannot buy, all in an idyllic environment: a very small but comfortable bungalow (really a beach hut with a bed, shower and mini-fridge to store my beer and milk for my morning coffee) on the beach, eating out every single day at local Thai restaurants, going out almost every night with co-workers and students, enough money to buy a small honda scooter, regular trips to nearby countries, all this on about $500 a month, and plenty of money to save (I won't mention spending your days on a dive-boat with women in bikini who think being a divemaster is the coolest job on the planet)...I'm heading back there as soon as the youngest of my four children is independent enough to survive on her own...
These are just examples, and they may not suit your aspirations or interests, nevertheless I am simply suggesting that there are non-conventional options out there that can get you out of a dead-end situation. This is by the way the advice I gave to my own son who is 23 and finds himself stuck in a dilemma: make really big bucks in the tar sands, with all that this implies for himself as much as for the environment, or build himself a lifestyle that will be more in tune with his aspirations and dreams.
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iwanttobelieve,
I just wanted to give you some positive vibes right away. Your situation sucks!! But you are doing all the right things, and you should be commended for your discipline, professionalism, and willingness to do whatever it takes to keep going. It's ok to feel down and frustrated. But as ykphil said, you may be at a crossroads, but you are not yet down and out. You can read many stories on this forum of people in greater debt, with health challenges, and families to support who are making it against all odds. Your turn will come!!
Given your circumstances, I would consider leaving your community, rather than spending another 3-4K on the driving course. As ykphil said, there are other, cheaper, shorter training programs to get you working faster, if that's the way you want to go.
My suggestion would be to immediately contact or find the website for your college's career centre. As a new alum, you should be entitled to help! And the centre may well have postings specifically for students/graduates. Your main focus at the moment needs to be to find work of any kind, but also be willing to go where work takes you, and it sounds like where you are now may be a dead end. Look at internships through your alma mater, or even for jobs posted on college boards where you are now or close by. Could you contact any of your former profs for suggestions/connections? Use any and all contacts that you have, even through facebook, anywhere in the world.
Good luck--we're rooting for you!
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I don't want to be difficult, but I find it hard to believe that:
1. You would move to Ohio in hopes of family being able to help without asking if they could help first.
2. None of your family likes you well enough to let you live in their basement.
3. McDonald's won't hire you unless there's something you're leaving out. It's hideous work but it's work and you need to keep being able to pay the fleabag motel bill.
If the ESL suggested elsewhere isn't good for you for whatever reason, could you do tutoring?
You talked about the military, so I assume aside from the stomach issue you're in fairly good physical shape. You could find out where the day laborers hang out and go try that, I guess.
I think the right trade these days is the skilled blue collar - plumbing especially. People will always need plumbers. Unless you actually want to drive truck, don't spend all that money on truck driving school.
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I think that the problem isn't your "job gap" (employers don't consider getting a degree full time for 4 years a job gap) it's your age combined with the hodgepodge work history you had for 5-6 years prior to attending college.
How's your resume? If I were in your situation and getting desperate I would cut everything out of my resume except schooling and part time jobs during school, lie about my age and say I'm 22.
If your degree/skill set is not in high demand you need to look like the ideal candidate to get selected, as there's a thousand other applicants who are 22 with no baggage and good grades who also want the job.
What I would actually do though, in your situation, is get my butt to North Dakota and get a job in the oil patch as a labourer (to start). If the best job prospect you have is working as a menial paper pusher for 30k/year, and you're even struggling to get that, I would not spend one more cent or brain cell on perusing that line of work. Consider your education in that field a sunken cost and move on.
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I am sorry to hear about your situation. This truly sucks, and I think it stinks that folks won't give you a chance.
Have you thought about temping in an office? Doing so is a good way to make cash, acquire new skills, and network. Even if you have to do grunt office work, temping can provide you with a way to get your bearings while doing something productive.
You mentioned you are depressed. I wonder if that is coming through in the interviews or in your resume somehow? If at all possible, my suggestion is to find a place of joy in all this crap and make sure that is coming through when you meet new people/interview for jobs/submit resumes. People can feel negativity.
Another idea: Could you bartend or be a waiter to make some cash?
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Going through a reputable temp agency (ManPower, etc.), should land you relatively consistent employment. You could do this in your current location, or move where you want, then do temp work while looking for permanent employment.
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I think that the problem isn't your "job gap" (employers don't consider getting a degree full time for 4 years a job gap) it's your age combined with the hodgepodge work history you had for 5-6 years prior to attending college.
How's your resume? If I were in your situation and getting desperate I would cut everything out of my resume except schooling and part time jobs during school, lie about my age and say I'm 22.
If your degree/skill set is not in high demand you need to look like the ideal candidate to get selected, as there's a thousand other applicants who are 22 with no baggage and good grades who also want the job.
What I would actually do though, in your situation, is get my butt to North Dakota and get a job in the oil patch as a labourer (to start). If the best job prospect you have is working as a menial paper pusher for 30k/year, and you're even struggling to get that, I would not spend one more cent or brain cell on perusing that line of work. Consider your education in that field a sunken cost and move on.
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2013/05/06/business/economy/06economix-jobs-chart/06economix-jobs-chart-blog480.jpg)
EDIT: Here is the link to the NYT column on where to find jobs (North Dakota): http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/06/where-the-jobs-for-the-young-are-and-arent/?_r=0
+1 on moving to North Dakota. I moved to what the NYT calls the "upper Midwest" (though not actually North Dakota) myself for a job. North Dakota has a huge shortage of people for the jobs that they have available.
Williston has skipped the recession entirely. Unemployment there is less than 2 percent. The population, the mayor estimates, has grown from 12,000 to 20,000 in the last four years.
"We actually have probably between 2,000 and 3,000 job openings in Williston right now," Koeser says.
From NPR: http://www.npr.org/2011/09/25/140784004/new-boom-reshapes-oil-world-rocks-north-dakota
Anecdotal evidence: My roommate's cousins live in Fargo, ND and when they decided to look for a job as 14-year-olds, they had 2-3 offers each. That was before fracking happened and ND exploded with oil money. If I honestly needed a job, that's where I would go.
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Goals:
1) Find a temp agency and find office jobs through it
2) Consider moving elsewhere (find a job first - employers will probably pay for you to travel to come interview with them, so don't worry about moving first). North Dakota is a very good option...
3) Start developing ties to wherever you find permanent employment.
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It is going to be okay. Really.
I'm sorry your family can't help. This is a situation in which I would do anything to help my kids. That said, it is what it is and you will find something and things will get better.
Of course you are feeling anxious, you are living in a motel with uncertainty about the next month. This is normal. Some depression is normal too. A lot can be crippling. If you can't go on medication, can you make sure you are getting some exercise? Helps with both.
I don't know the US job market well. I can tell you what I would do where I live:
1. I would move to an area with lower unemployment rates asap.
2. I might consider living in my car during this move period to conserve cash. Find a Y or community centre for showering etc and set up for camp-style cooking. Many parks have picnic areas here. Treat it as an adventure while the weather is good. Hang out in the library with their free wifi while you search for jobs.
3. I would make sure my resume is tailored to the job I am applying for. If you need a job right now and you are being turned down because you have a college degree I would consider removing it from my resume for that job application. Sorry to folks who think this is "wrong" - I would say your well-being is worth more right now and its not a terrible thing to do. There is a lot of turnover in lower paying industries for a reason and it is okay if this is not your forever job. You just need to get on your feet.
4. I would think of a good reason to explain the relocation to prospective employers other than you desperately need a job.
5. Apply to temp agencies.
6. See if you can get your loan payments deferred.
7. Keep checking back in here or posting for advice again because US MMM folks know a lot about the job market.
You are going to be okay. Keep moving forward.
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+1 to living in a car.
+1 to ESL in a low-cost Asian country, or enlisting.
I've a friend who has a cross-border family; he grew up here but did high school in Compton, NJ, and he often says "Everyone I knew is either in the military, in prison, or dead." Bloody depressing.
Can I ask what your stomach problems entail? I have IBS and have had good luck with probiotics and herbal remedies; then I ended up on antidepressants and it helped immensely. I'd be able to qualify for enlistment now, if my main trigger food wasn't corn, which every processed food, including rations and a lot of on-base cooking, is pretty much made from.
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Just came back to check on this. Wow! I think you guys have some great ideas.
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If you would genuinely join the military if it could work, talk to a recruiter. Until he tells you your issue is disqualifying, don't believe it.
Since you have a degree, start with an officer recruiter. This is not the same as an enlisted recruiter, though an E recruiter might tell you he can do both. You want an O recruiter. If that won't work, talk to an E recruiter about enlisted.
This isn't going to get you a job and a pay check right away, however, especially not the O route. But it is a longer term solution. Don't take the word of rumors and people who aren't paid to be up to date on the rules as gospel. It cant hurt to talk to a recruiter.
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I agree with some of the others. Head up the oil boom camps in ND, etc. You are a month from living in your car or a homeless shelter, it's time to take bold action.
Go to the library, do some google-fu and find the names/addresses/hiring centers of at least four or five oil camps. Buy yourself a pair of Red Wing workboots and some Carhartt work pants. Sell any of your things that you don't need to live, gas up the car and and head north and west.
If you aren't willing to take decisive action like that, at least register with every single temporary agency in town. Emphasize that you can do administrative work, reception work, filing, physical warehouse work, etc. Any time I've registered with a temp agency I could work 40 hours a week every week. I worked as hard as I could, demonstrated a sparkling, upbeat personality to show I was easy to get along with, and got a couple of offers for full time work.
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Was there an overly good reason for working 5 years before going to college? Anything you could put in a cover letter for a job app? You don't want to be overly dramatic, but if there's a good reason, employers like hiring those types ...
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I agree with altering your resume/ application. You don't have to put everything on it. If you are applying for a job where you think college is a disadvantage, leave it off. Or just put the community college. If asked directly, don't lie. You should be able, with your English speaking ability, citizenship, and a willingness to work very hard, be able to find some kind of minimum wage work. Maybe short term farm employment, fast food, or waiting tables, day labor, etc. I have actually hired people off of craigslist to do things. Try posting an ad saying you will do yard work, moving, chopping wood etc. for $8 an hour. You might get a taker. This is a short term plan.
What I think they meant by you aren't "big box" material might be something that is a problem overall: When the job is dead end, people at least want to work with others who are happy, optimistic, fun, etc. The bosses don't want you to THINK it is a dead end job. So, you have to fake it. When you are desperate and smart, this is hard. But you can do it! Also, to these employers things like being clean, dressing appropriately, enthusiasm, and arriving on time are very important- more important than in higher paid jobs. Get your food handler's card if you don't already.
I understand your family won't "help you out" as much as you thought. Even if you can't live there, could someone serve as your address so when people look it up it's a house instead of a motel? Or serve as a character reference to say you are hard working? Let you use their washer/dryer, iron, and ironing board?
If you do move to ND, be prepared to live in your car. Employment is high, but there isn't enough housing.
Are you involved in any sort of community group? I always think of churches in a situation like this. If you can ask around, you might find someone willing to let you use their appliances, park in their driveway or parking lot, or pay you some cash for some yard work. There might even be some business owners who would take a chance on you that they otherwise wouldn't take. There are, of course, other people who will do these things outside of churches, but Sunday at 11am is a good time to find a large group of them all in one place.
Meanwhile, apply for food stamps and find the food banks. You do not need to be spending money on food if you are going to lose your place to live soon. This will buy you some more time.
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Just wanted to +1 the get your student loan payments deferred. I don't know how the US system works, but here there are a lot of options for students in your situation: interest relief, partial forgiveness, reduced payments, and temporary deferrment. Make a couple of phone calls and see what happens.
If the oil industry doesn't sound appealing, give some serious thought to where you might want to live. You need a city not so big as to be intimidating or overwhelming, but big enough to have solid work with temp agencies, and opportunities to do the side hustles that MMM's recent posts have been about: tutoring, dog-walking, etc. A city with a large enough wealthy population to support you, a desirable university or college, but with a low enough cost of living to not leave you homeless. Think about places with lots of under-30s where you will be in good company, and finding roomates, etc will be easy. Remember that if where you are truly won't work for you, that means the world is your oyster!
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About the student loans -- instead of getting them deferred, get on an income-based repayment (IBR) option. If you have $0 income, you should have $0 repayment. This is better than having them deferred because you only have so many years of deferment available, whereas there is no limit to IBR.
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Lots of practical suggestions for places to look for work - if you're in the Central Ohio area, FedEx and UPS are always hiring this time of year. It won't be lucrative, but you could get a night shift position while they need them for the holidays, and it would keep you from being homeless while freeing up your days for more interviews.
My suggestions below are more general things you can do to help yourself, vs. places to look for jobs:
In general, I think you need to look into public and nonprofit assistance in your area. You probably qualify for foodstamps or another assistance than can help make ends meet. Housing often has a waiting list, but you some places offer rent assistance. You need to get down to Job and Family Services and ask about any benefits they may have.
Also look into nonprofits and public services that may provide job-hunting help. My local library system (central Ohio) offers resume help, job hunting seminars, job fairs, etc. Job and family services often offers job assistance. Some organizations will even help you practice your job interview skills. From what you've written, it sounds like you may be sending red flags in interviews without realizing it. I think you need someone impartial who can help you work through that.
I would also see if there's a free clinic or low-cost clinic that treats depression near you. They're in almost every city I've been to, you just have to ask around for a bit to find them. While your situation is difficult, it isn't hopeless. But you sound like you think it's hopeless. That's red flag for depression and depression can make it a LOT harder to find a job or ace an interview. A clinic might be able to treat you for that and help you work through your job-searching issues at the same time.
I would not lay down more money on job training right now unless you're sure it's a good match for your skills/interests AND you know there's a need for it in the market. Right now, trucking in the Midwest is not a hugely booming industry, so I personally wouldn't spend a lot of money on training to become a trucker. There are manual trades (plumbing, welding, etc.) that could be lucrative if you get skilled enough. They would also likely let you use your business degree to climb up the ladder- my impression is that people who can match trade skills with business knowledge tend to be very successful in those fields.
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I don't have advice as it seems like you have gotten plenty, but I just wanted to wish you luck! My husband and I have both been there with feeling completely desperate in terms on finding a job and I know how it can impact your mental health.
Keep your head up. Eventually you'll get a break.
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+1 on driving to North Dakota. You will be employed virtually instantly. Housing is indeed tight. But if you don't mind living in a "mancamp" for the foreseeable future, you will have better than decent income.
That would give you breathing room to regain your self-confidence, build up emergency funds, and chip at debt.
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Sounds like posting to the MMM boards was an excellent step -- lots of concrete advice has come up. Like a few others, I have little to add but wanted to acknowledge your post, your difficult situation and wish you the best. Keep taking the steps you have been taking. Keep working hard. This too shall pass.
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There have been so many good suggestions! I would only add that the book "60 Seconds and You're Hired" is very very good, and will help you tailor your resume to each job, plus gives a giant list of good answers to the typical interview questions. I can't recommend it highly enough.
On a more personal note, when I was going through a very stressful and difficult time, I also suffered from depression and anxiety. I found that 5HTP (available OTC) was helpful for me. I hesitate to recommend it since everyone reacts differently, but for me it was just enough to take the edge off the really "hopeless" moments. If you aren't able to find a free clinic (which should be your first stop), trying something OTC might be better than going totally unmedicated. YMMV.
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I graduated in May, got and then quit an extremely cushy teaching job. As someone who is only a few things away from being in your situation, let me tell you what has helped me the most:
1. Accept Help: BE WILLING TO ACCEPT HELP. Between all the food banks/resume services/ LIBRARY/offers, you can sort of meagerly keep on. I've learned to not only swallow my pride, but also the key to where I locked up my pride. I outright ask people, strangers, if they know of job openings, and find that a smile and a compliment goes a long way to this end! Also check out churches- many have free dinners once a week, and after many services, at least in my denomination, there is a reception with fruit/cookies. Also ask to join your local Lodges, which are veritable sources of networking and help - Moose, Lion's Club, Masons, etc.
2. DO Volunteer: If you cannot volunteer within biking distance, then live in your car near volunteering. I have received MANY job leads from volunteering people. Because? Volunteering is spectacular and I think it could help mitigate some depressive symptoms: it makes you feel less powerless and trapped to help others (trust me, I've been there)
3. Get CHEAP <1000 training : Don't get into MORE debt for trucker school! Medical billing coursework, for instance, can be had for under $1000. Become a CNA for around $500 and be up to your ears in work, even if it is not comfortable or particularly well-paying.
4. If you will live out of your car, JOIN A CHEAPASS GYM. YOu might think that those $10/month is a waste, but really, access to a shower, and more importantly, exercise endorphins/random people for socialization/possible networking, is important!
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Resumes are tough. They need to stand out but not too much, or weirdly. They need to have broad yet focused appeal. I know this sounds a little off, but would you be willing to "submit" your resume to this forum? I would XXXXX or just change identifying information that could possibly be traced back to you.
I once reviewed a CV/resume for a lawyer who had mistakenly put "10th percentile" for her board scores thinking that was the top ten percent, and the poor thing had been sending it out, without much luck, like that for years, when she was actually 90th percentile! She changed that and her life changed quite a bit not long after. A seemingly simple mistake like that can be disastrous.
When applying to super-competitive grad school, I had dozens of "volunteers" from all walks of life read and (I requested this) viscously critique my personal statement, and then rinsed and repeated the process until I was satisfied, dozens of times.
Anyway, it's just a thought and would not be offended at all if you decide against it, but there are some really smart and broadly experienced people here who would love to help you!!
I feel for you, and I will help as much as I can.
I am not religious, but a quote often comes to mind that rings of it: For the grace of god (whatever), go I. To me it just means that I am 0.5 steps from disaster - always. I have been in your shoes and I wish you all the best.
LER
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When I was in a similar situation, I got a bunch of credit cards with 0% introductory rates and used them for moving/living expenses until I could get back on my feet. I then moved to an area with employment options and rented a room in someone's house that I found over Craigslist (which didn't require a background or credit check). It sucks to run up credit cards, but saving your skin is definitely a good use of credit.
Another option for you is to become a substitute teacher. It's easy work and (at least in my area) pays $100/day. It's not much but it will tide you over until you can get something better.
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Sounds like posting to the MMM boards was an excellent step -- lots of concrete advice has come up. Like a few others, I have little to add but wanted to acknowledge your post, your difficult situation and wish you the best. Keep taking the steps you have been taking. Keep working hard. This too shall pass.
Ditto this. You've gotten a lot of great suggestions and I don't have anything to add, but I wish you the best. Please keep us posted, and if you do post your resume and/or cover letter I'd be happy to take a look. I'm a former copy editor and am happy to help.
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Wow, you are in a tough spot, but you need to stay positive. You have a marketable degree, so the problem might be your resume, cover letter, and/or interviewing skills. Try to get some feedback from someone and/or check out some relevant books from the library.
I'm having trouble understanding that you have no family or friends to stay with. Where are your parents? Do you have any siblings or close friends?
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You are getting lots of good advice here. Keep your chin up! Looking for work is a mental roller coaster.
+1 for renting a room you find on Craigslist. One of my friend's is currently doing this, and the landlord let him go month to month.
If I were in your situation and getting desperate I would cut everything out of my resume except schooling and part time jobs during school, lie about my age and say I'm 22.
I don't think you need to lie about your age; but don't list that pre-college experience at all on your resume, or only list the most recent 1-2 years of it. People will then just assume you are younger, but that's not a problem.
Or, go with what others have suggested and leave the college graduation off the in-store applications if you just need a cashier or stocking job again to pay the bills while you continue to look. You can list being in college to avoid a time gap, but some jobs are more likely to hire you if you didn't graduate. If you get one of these jobs, go ahead and list it on your resume while you continue to look for something else bc ironically it's easier to get a job if you are currently employed somehow (most hiring companies won't contact a current employer unless you expressly give them permission to do so.)
Please remember that you don't HAVE to give the same information to every employer, and I don't consider leaving something off the same as lying. Leave off HS graduation dates if it's on the employment application form; lots of older people do this to avoid age discrimination, but it also avoids you having to explain why you are 28. Most companies will just ignore the blanks. I have a friend with a PhD who worked in the produce department at a Super Target to get through a long unemployment gap. Eventually he got a job for an American contractor in Japan that uses his degree (he loves it!)
I'll come down with the other folks who have said don't go to truck driving school. My Mom was a starving artist who decided to do that out of desperation. Yes, she found a job, but it was dead end, loads of physical labor, etc.
You actually haven't said if you are male or female, which is fine, but I think some of the advice you are getting here is slanted towards you being male.
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Edit:
-Tried some suggestions on here
-Still getting rejected for jobs
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Good for you! I'm glad to see that you've taken action. Best of luck!
Sidenote: If it were easy to find jobs in Florida, I'd move there in a heartbeat. I actually tried to find jobs in Sarasota/Tampa to no avail before settling for where I am now.
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Relocating is your best bet, but in the meantime, there should be some seasonal openings in agriculture now--hand-processing and packaging fruits and vegetables.
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You mentioned the military, and I'm a big fan of this option.
If you are seriously considering it, talk to an officer recruited ASAP. Get the full medical exam - don't assume you won't get in. There are waivers for EVERYTHING.
The benefits:
- amazing job training and education opportunites
- good salary to start, amazing salary four years later
- meet & work with amazing people
- very rare opportunities you might NEVER have in the private sector (ever been a 26 yr old dude invited to an ambassador's house in a foreign country to meet that country's president?)
- lots of opportunity for travel and adventure
- student loan repayment programs
The drawbacks:
- possible deployment to war zones (although the chances are decreasing)
- heirchical organization; can be frustrating
Stay positive!
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My mom lives with my grandmother here and she says I can't stay or sleep on the couch go somewhere else. There's a big everyone needs to be sufficient/no help attitude with my family.
Have you tried pointing out the irony of this situation to your mom. Probably won't but it's always fun exposing hypocrites.
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Sorry to hear you're going through this tough spot, but I know you are going to get through it, and be better for having gone through it.
Lots of great advice already offered above. Here's what I would add, in all seriousness: Pray to God and ask for help. Just trust Him that it's going to work out, and you don't even have to know how it will happen, or worry about it. If you pray and ask for help, something will happen to work it out, I am certain. Keep praying, every day. I'm so certain that it will work I will guarantee you will not end up homeless or hungry. If you reach that point, private message me and I will let you stay at our home and keep you fed with a roof over your head as long as you need. Lots of jobs too where we live (Washington DC). If you're crime and drug-free, then as long as you can get here you'll have a place.
Good luck!
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My mom lives with my grandmother here and she says I can't stay or sleep on the couch go somewhere else. There's a big everyone needs to be sufficient/no help attitude with my family.
Have you tried pointing out the irony of this situation to your mom. Probably won't but it's always fun exposing hypocrites.
I dealt with something similar after college. Honestly, they could have just let me sleep out in the back room on a cot and I would have paid them a little something and provided my own food just to have a roof over my head. Sometimes blood is as thick as water.
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Sorry your family sucks :( but good for you for going to college on your own.
Have you asked any good friends if they can think of some reason why you might not interview well? Appearance issues, eye contact, anything?
AS for your GI issues - try a gluten-free diet if you haven't done so before. Many people with chronic gut issues are just gluten intolerant.
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Sorry to hear you're going through this tough spot, but I know you are going to get through it, and be better for having gone through it.
Lots of great advice already offered above. Here's what I would add, in all seriousness: Pray to God and ask for help. Just trust Him that it's going to work out, and you don't even have to know how it will happen, or worry about it. If you pray and ask for help, something will happen to work it out, I am certain. Keep praying, every day. I'm so certain that it will work I will guarantee you will not end up homeless or hungry. If you reach that point, private message me and I will let you stay at our home and keep you fed with a roof over your head as long as you need. Lots of jobs too where we live (Washington DC). If you're crime and drug-free, then as long as you can get here you'll have a place.
Good luck!
Awesome :)
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MMM just listed 50+ ways to make $50k plus. What have you done to make mney? I don't understand why it matters what your family or friends have done. What have you done?
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Sorry to hear you're going through this tough spot, but I know you are going to get through it, and be better for having gone through it.
Lots of great advice already offered above. Here's what I would add, in all seriousness: Pray to God and ask for help. Just trust Him that it's going to work out, and you don't even have to know how it will happen, or worry about it. If you pray and ask for help, something will happen to work it out, I am certain. Keep praying, every day. I'm so certain that it will work I will guarantee you will not end up homeless or hungry. If you reach that point, private message me and I will let you stay at our home and keep you fed with a roof over your head as long as you need. Lots of jobs too where we live (Washington DC). If you're crime and drug-free, then as long as you can get here you'll have a place.
Good luck!
You are a very good person. God bless you. I second the prayer and belief.
When I hit rough times, my church was always there for me. I would recommend that the OP check with his church for help if he belongs to one. Then, when things improve, he can pay it forward to someone else who needs it. When I had trouble finding a place to stay, my church helped me and I've never forgotten it.
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If you're open to another relocation I would suggest the Lincoln/Omaha area of Nebraska. Unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the country, cost of living is low, and I know of a few good temp agencies out here for business careers; Aureus Group, Hemphill Staffing, Insearch, Accountemps, and Cornerstone Staffing (I only list this last one because you're desparate, I had a bad experience with them but they will get you a job and it will pay decent).
Lincoln is working on becoming bike friendly but since I live 1/2 away I haven't put to test how friendly it actually is.
If you're interested and want some contact info you can send me a message.
Another option is Indianapolis. Unemployment is a bit higher but cost of living is still low. And as long as you don't have a criminal background you can probably get a job at FedEx (best option, better pay and benefits) or UPS working nights so you can still work on getting a full time job during the day
Lincoln is a great city to bike in. Especially if you live in the cheap/"bad" areas of town.
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If you're open to another relocation I would suggest the Lincoln/Omaha area of Nebraska. Unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the country, cost of living is low, and I know of a few good temp agencies out here for business careers; Aureus Group, Hemphill Staffing, Insearch, Accountemps, and Cornerstone Staffing (I only list this last one because you're desparate, I had a bad experience with them but they will get you a job and it will pay decent).
Lincoln is working on becoming bike friendly but since I live 1/2 away I haven't put to test how friendly it actually is.
If you're interested and want some contact info you can send me a message.
Another option is Indianapolis. Unemployment is a bit higher but cost of living is still low. And as long as you don't have a criminal background you can probably get a job at FedEx (best option, better pay and benefits) or UPS working nights so you can still work on getting a full time job during the day
Lincoln is a great city to bike in. Especially if you live in the cheap/"bad" areas of town.
And the awesome thing is that the "bad" areas aren't bad. I walk around them by myself at lunch and I'm a paranoid mofo :)
Yup. I really want to buy one of those cool older homes around Near South or Everett, but the hubs keeps pointing out that my construction skillz are not that advanced.
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Update: Thanks everyone for the support and advice.
Edit:
-Family suggests I try to focus on Dishwasher/Server/Waiter positions.
-Still living in motel in the midwest, apply for jobs all day, going out on foot asking if people are hiring
-Still getting rejection for everything I apply to.
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Just saw this thread.
Got to say, you have a lot more positives than negatives. No criminal history, no bad credit, college education, no terrible debt (student loan isn't great but on the scale of student loan debt it could be much worse).
The only thing that I am curious about is all the rejections, especially the weak ones from pretty low end jobs (how much experience do you need to wash dishes, really?). Are you doing something wrong? Is your resume weak? Or too strong (it was mentioned above but I wouldn't mention any education beyond high school for a starting job like dishwashing)?
I also think there has to be some kind of state / public financial assistance for someone in your situation. Probably not unemployment because of your lack of a job for so long due to school, but some kind of assistance whether through the state or a non-profit. I mean, I'd much rather have my tax money go to someone who is educated and trying instead of a third generation welfare baby factory, IMO, but I don't make the laws.
Consider also an alternative living arrangement. Just because it's not on the interwebs doesn't mean it doesn't exist. For example, some sort of farmhand / onsite caretaker, off the books. I think this is pretty common in many areas, a guy does odd jobs and lives in a trailer or extra room on site. Just a thought. Fliers or CL ads might help here.
The trucking job isn't necessarily bad... but I wince a little bit at taking on more debt if all the other avenues (conventional and unconventional) haven't been tried.
Military / National Guard could be a good option. But they may not want you due to age and ailments. I also wince at this a bit due to the committment.
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The 5 page personality tests that each company wants you take is driving me crazy! As well as having to submit a custom cover letter/resume and then have to fill in the same information several times on their form for each position.
That is very frustrating! I think the best thing to do when each application takes so long is to choose your applications wisely -- apply at the places that best fit your experience first, before wasting time at something that is a long shot. When I was applying for professional jobs, I would tailor all of my cover letters, and once I had 2-4 different resumes, I didn't have to tweak each one.
I know that the last thing you probably want to do is volunteer, but if you can find a rewarding volunteer gig that you could do for a few hours each week, you will probably meet people who will want to help you out and that might get you an interview or even a job.
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I can't explain it ether, why i'm getting so much rejection. Trust me, i've tried going over every possible variable as to why and then tried to fix what ever might be the issue.
I do really appreciate all the advice everyone has given on here.
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The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Based on the ideas that are on this blog, I could earn thousands a month within 30 days spending less than 5 hours a week. I have not heard what you have done besides apply for jobs that apparently are not there.
1) Have you done online surveys for money?
2) Have you sold blood/plasma/semen?
3) Have you volunteered for medical tests?
4) Have you looked at the forum posts that talk about side gigs and income?
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/create-an-income-that-covers-living-costs-in-6-months/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/freelancing/msg64129/#msg64129
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/who-has-a-side-gigjob-that-brings-in-extra-cash-share-with-us!/msg123605/#msg123605
MMM recent posts on making $50k per year without an education: Read all the comments as well.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/07/25/50-jobs-over-50000-without-a-degree-part-1/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/05/50-jobs-over-50000-without-a-degree-part-2/
Read her blog. She gets stuff done. She has made some poor choices, but is actively doing stuff to improve her situation:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/tales-of-a-money-idiot/
Open credit cards bank accounts probably could get you a few hundred if your credit is good. They won't give you much credit, but as a college grad with good credit you should get something. Get an American Express for presale concert ticket offers...
I mentioned this somewhere else, but we easily make $200-$400 buying up tickets to concerts that we are confident will sell out and selling them through Stubhub. Probably could make $2,000++ a month if you took this seriously. We pretty much use it to pay for our tickets and maybe a dinner out. This is all through your computer, only buying tickets in one area vs. around the country, and using Stubhub for connvenience even though they take 15% commission.
Like that materialistic company Nike says, Just Do It!!!! Looking forward to your creative ways to get yourself rocking to financial indepence.
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I can't explain it ether, why i'm getting so much rejection. Trust me, i've tried going over every possible variable as to why and then tried to fix what ever might be the issue.
I do really appreciate all the advice everyone has given on here.
Look on the bright side: at least you're getting rejected! Around here, they don't bother. It's just a wall of deafening silence.
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PM me with your resume and I'll be happy to review it. I'm self-employed now, but previously I worked in BigLaw, Big4, in house and in a high brow consulting firm, all the while heavily involved in recruiting. If your resume sucks, I'll tell you why and how to fix it.
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Open credit cards bank accounts probably could get you a few hundred if your credit is good. They won't give you much credit, but as a college grad with good credit you should get something. Get an American Express for presale concert ticket offers...
I don't recommend this for the OP. These cc rewards require you to spend money to get them, and the last thing the OP should be doing is spending unnecessary $$. Maybe get one card and use it for your hotel bill if it will meet the required minimum to get the bonus ($1,000 over 3 months is the smallest I've seen).
That said, I highly recommend teaching yourself how to program software if you think you might be interested. There are so many resources out there. Python is super easy to learn. Once you have those skills, you can easily get side hustles through elance.
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PM me with your resume and I'll be happy to review it. I'm self-employed now, but previously I worked in BigLaw, Big4, in house and in a high brow consulting firm, all the while heavily involved in recruiting. If your resume sucks, I'll tell you why and how to fix it.
I second this idea. You need someone qualified to review your resume. Send kbb your cover letter(s) too, or post them here. Or just attach your resume to your next post and we'll be able to help you. (change your name and address, obviously)
I also want to add this, and please know that I'm not saying this to be mean. I'm saying this because I want to help. Your grammar is bad. I realize that this is an online forum, and that communication is more lax, but I find that it's hard to turn proper communication on and off.
-If your going to just chime in and call me an idiot please don't
You want you’re, short for you are. Your is possessive and is used to show ownership. (your house, your car, etc.)
I graduated with the two degree's I listed about.
You want degrees, plural, with no apostrophe. The apostrophe either implies ownership (Eric’s car) or a contraction (You’re going to make it!), but not plural.
Thats been my only work experience since going back to college.
You want that’s, with an apostrophe here. That’s is a contraction for that has. “That has been my only work….”
also been flat out told "were looking for people with more experience"
Here again, were should be we’re, as it’s a contraction for we are.
I swear I’m not trying to beat you down over this, but I’m concerned that you’ve been so close to finding jobs and just coming up short that maybe it’s your communication and lack of grammar that’s put you just slightly behind someone else. Maybe there's a small mistake on your resume or your cover letter, just enough to put doubt in the mind of the hiring manager. Please find someone qualified to review all of the communication you're regularly using when applying for jobs.
You’re smart and college educated. You need to make sure that your future employer can trust you to communicate professionally with clients. Using proper grammar and spelling is something that is important to a lot of employers, especially if you will have interaction with their customers.
There's been talk about tailoring your resume to each position, and that is important, but I think the cover letter could be even more important. When applying, talk specifically about what skills you bring that match to what skills are needed. This should change with every position. I just finished a job hunt that lasted about 6 months. I had 5 different cover letter templates that I would pick from, each highlighting different skills or with different degrees of formality. Then, based on the job posting, I'd pick one of them and then further tailor it to match keywords and skills that the employer was looking for. I was told specifically that I got two interviews because they liked my cover letter. And in fact, I landed the job I wanted at one of these places.
I would not worry at all about your supposed job gap. You don't have one. You were in school full time. That's not a gap. That's an accomplishment!
As a final piece of advice, if you only have money for 30 days in a motel, I wouldn't use it for 30 days in a row. I'd live in my car for 3-4 days at a time and then stay one night in order to shower and shave and then move back into my car.
If you do end up living in your car, this website has lots of great practical suggestions to keep you safe, warm, and clean. It also has lots of links to agencies that can help listed on the right side of the site.
http://guide2homelessness.blogspot.com/
Hang in there! This is only temporary. You WILL find something. Really! We're all rooting for you and wish you the best of luck.
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My advice is to contact your college alum office and get a list of all the alums in the area. Spend a day calling through the list, and asking each of them if they would be willing to meet with you as a recent grad of the alma mater and give you some advice based on their experience. Then meet with any of them that are willing to meet with you and ask for their advice on the job hunt, ask for any suggestions of who else you should talk to, etc. Talking in person to people and asking for their help and experience often opens a lot of doors.
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Again, some great ideas everyone. Thank you for the input.
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Wow, damn that sucks that family/relatives don't want to give you a helping hand... I know some people advocate real "tough love" but giving a family member 6mths food/shelter really isn't that tough. As a viet upbringing... we're always taught Famiy first and we would adjust or living to help out any close family in need. My sister and both my brothers had difficulties and each of my family stepped up (I'm the youngest so I was still young a broke back then :)) and got them back on their feet.
That being said, take a look at MMM 2-part blog post about jobs over 50K... that should also give you some ideas if your degree isn't helping you land anything worthwhile.
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Congratulations on being willing to ask for help - not many people are open to advice. I have two pieces.
1. I definitely second taking an English teaching job. I worked at Nova in Japan after my undergraduate, and I often feel that it was the best decision I ever made. I came back with 10 grand in the bank after a year, and I traveled around the country quite a bit too. All they wanted was an undergraduate degree, although TESL etc would earn you a higher salary. I paid for my ticket over there, but they arranged accommodation and even gave me an advance on my salary. The work was tedious, but I got to hang out with a lot of fun, adventurous people from around the world. It was a great time. I checked, and AEON is hiring; all they want is a one year commitment and an undergraduate degree- you don't have anything holding you to the country. Instead of working in some grungy industrial park why not see the world? Your degree could also be useful over there, there are opportunities working as a contractor with businesses to prepare their employees. Someone with business knowledge might be able to parlay that into something more. The only downside I can see is the delay for a work visa, and of course you need a passport too.
2. If you decide you want to stay in the country, then I suggest you pick a company you want to work for. I find that applying for posted jobs is a waste of time - someone's usually beat you to it. Instead, try applying somewhere you can get excited about, and just sending them an application telling them what you can contribute and how excited you'd be to work there. Also, call up and ask the receptionist for the name of the person who'll read it. A cover letter titled 'to whom it may concern' is a real turn off. This is my usual approach to employment and it's served me well.
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If I were in your situation, I'd do two major things.
First and foremost you gotta get out of the hotel. I can't even begin to imagine what that is costing you each month (even a flea bag $40 per day hotel is $1200 a month). That's outrageous.
The second thing I would do is start applying to jobs where you can get tips. Become a server at a restaurant or a pizza delivery driver or something and do it in the evenings.
Then I would start looking around for internships in your area. Sadly today the degree doesn't get you very far. It's your qualifications and internships, networking and who you know that make the biggest difference in getting a job. If you can find a decent internship (even if it's unpaid) and just work your ass off to impress the company so that you can get a good reference, maybe something good will come out of it.
Another option (besides the tips jobs) is to go apply for your insurance license. I used to sell AFLAC insurance and you can make a killing doing that if you're persistent enough.
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Edit:
-Applied to more jobs up in Oil areas in North Dakota hoping to get a job offer, considering heading up there.
-Trying to get a housing situation on craigslist to work out or considering leaving the area
-Applied like crazy to jobs in the area with Americorps. Hearing no reply back or no positions available.
-Applying for everything local, Retail, restaurant, everything, still getting rejection.
-Had an interview with goodwill for a position.
-Can't afford motel anymore. Have some money left over for gas.
-Student loans have come due, $400 a month. Applied for deferment.
-Some problems with depression.
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Yes, you're going to make it. You're working harder right now on this job search than a lot of people work on their actual jobs. Sooner or later someone's going to give you a shot.
In the meantime, I don't think you should hesitate to apply for food stamps or whatever help you can get. Your situation is exactly what those sort of programs are for, to help someone out in the short term until they can get back on their feet.
In terms of how to make things happen sooner rather than later, I have to say I think Eric might have been on to something. Have you had someone proofread your resume and cover letters? When you're up against an HR person in a hurry, don't give them an excuse to toss your application, just because of a grammar mistake. I'd be glad to take a look and I bet a lot of other folks on here would too.
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Thanks for the update and good luck on the Goodwill interview!
I have this follow-up advice: Get out from behind the computer. Seriously, it's really hard to get a job just shooting off e-applications. Print a stack of resumes, clean yourself up, and start walking around. Smile and give out 20 per day.
Also, apply for food stamps immediately. Don't let your pride get in the way. Here's a website to get you started: http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/applicant_recipients/apply.htm
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Thanks for the update and good luck on the Goodwill interview!
I have this follow-up advice: Get out from behind the computer. Seriously, it's really hard to get a job just shooting off e-applications. Print a stack of resumes, clean yourself up, and start walking around. Smile and give out 20 per day.
Also, apply for food stamps immediately. Don't let your pride get in the way. Here's a website to get you started: http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/applicant_recipients/apply.htm
That's not necessarily the best advise. Lots of hiring managers and decision makers are busy and you will come across as out of touch if you just randomly hand out resumes. It will hurt your chances not help it.
If you're putting out that many resumes and not getting interviews there's something wrong with your resume and/or cover letters. Have you visited the website www.askamanager.org? That's a great resource for interviews, cover letters and resumes as well as just general job advise.
Did you take anybody up on their offer to review your resume? If you want to PM me with it, along with a sample cover letter, I'd be happy to look it over. You need to write and edit a specific cover letter/resume for each job you apply for. If you're applying for retail, leave off your college education for example. Tell them you love working in retail. Say what you need to to get a job.
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Rooting for you. Hang in there.
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I think you should post the town where you are. I'm in Canada so I can't help with more info, but there are people here who are where you are and will be willing to do more to help you out - re. info and resources at least. If you do this I will post a topic asking for more assistance with what to do in your town in your circumstances. You are just a step away from a better situation so now is not the time to be shy. Going to be okay.
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There are job opportunities for truck drivers where the company will teach you for free.
http://tbe.taleo.net/CH05/ats/careers/jobSearch.jsp?org=CRST&cws=1[url]] (http://[/url)http://tbe.taleo.net/CH05/ats/careers/jobSearch.jsp?org=CRST&cws=1http://
DA
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http://www.joincrst.com/students.php (http://www.joincrst.com/students.php)
DA
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I waitressed at many different places, most of them chains.
IME, all of them have a training process that you must go thru. For example, at the Olive Garden, there is a 3 day paid training period, and then you follow a server for some shifts, and then a server follows you for a while, (when you follow another or help another server, they keep all the tips, but you will get an hourly wage) and then you are on your own.
I havent been a server for over ten years now, but back when I did, I would earn at least 300$ a week, and at my last job, I worked 4 days a week and usually walked with 600-700$ a week. I did not even work anywhere fancy!
I also met people at work,made friends, found roommates, and even had a good time (comraderie)
So you might try chain restaurants. Lots of guys started as busboys and moved up to servers, but Id shoot for server first because you will make more money.
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I'm sorry you're going through this, I can see how hard you are working at getting a job.
Definitely apply for food stamps and you might qualify for general relief - it's not much, but something. It's meant exactly for circumstances like this so don't be shy about applying.
AS for the whole online applying vs showing up in person thing - the experience my kids had with grocery stores was, there was an online application process, but then you should show up at the store you wanted to work at and touch base with the manager, letting them know you'd put in an application online.
Plus smaller businesses, you should just show up and leave a resume - some don't have a sign up but may be considering hiring, or may remember you next week when someone quits unexpectedly.
Also - this doesn't pay much, but going into winter, you might try applying at ski resorts. They hire seasonal people to work the ski lifts and cafeterias. Lots of young people take these jobs for the free skiing. Mammoth Mountain in California has a pretty long ski season (approx Thanksgiving to Fourth of July) and the weather is lovely. Lake Tahoe is a shorter season but a beautiful location. My brother worked at Big Bear near L.A., that's a much shorter season but also closer to a big city with possible job opportunities.
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Maybe I missed this, OP, but did you send your resume to any of the folks here who offered to review it? If you're barely even getting any interviews, then that's going to be a crucial step for you.
Also, are you living in a place where there's a decent number of sublets available? Doing a sublet can get you around the obstacle of not having a job and thus having a very tough time finding a rental of your own.
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It is seasonal, but the H&R block course is only around $100 and if you pass the tests they will hire you to do returns for the 2013 tax year starting Jan 2014. I took the course just to have more info on our own personal taxes and scored highest in the class :-) I didn't get really what I wanted out of it because I was looking for advanced tips like how to calculate taxes on income from option spreads and some other business and investing situations. For the basics though it was ok and I found quite a few ways to get money from the government that may help us in the future (instant 50% return on your investment via "saver's credit" was one I didn't know about).
Too bad you are not into software though. $120 an hour gets you to FI very fast.
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About the student loans -- instead of getting them deferred, get on an income-based repayment (IBR) option. If you have $0 income, you should have $0 repayment. This is better than having them deferred because you only have so many years of deferment available, whereas there is no limit to IBR.
Agreed. I had $30,000 in federal loans when I graduated and I was only playing $189 a month. I wasn't even doing IBR, I did whatever that one is where they "ramp it up" as you get older. Even after 5 years out of college, I was only required to pay $189 a month. $400 a month for your loans is crazy if you're struggling to make ends meet!
You should be able to call the loan provider and ask them what they can do to help out. My roommate was struggling to make his payments and when he finally called he was super relieved, they really do want you to be able to make your payments.
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Maybe I missed this, OP, but did you send your resume to any of the folks here who offered to review it? If you're barely even getting any interviews, then that's going to be a crucial step for you.
I offered to review the OP's resume and haven't received it. The offer still stands.
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I didn't get really what I wanted out of it because I was looking for advanced tips like how to calculate taxes on income from option spreads and some other business and investing situations.
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but here's how to figure out the tax impact on options. (I'm assuming these are options received through employment.) There is a difference in tax treatment between a statutory (aka qualified) and nonstatutory (aka non-qualified) option.
When you exercise a nonstatutory stock option (i.e., buy the stock), the difference between the fair market value of the shares and the exercise price (the spread) will be included in your wages and subject to federal income tax and employment tax withholding. After exercise, you own the shares. When you sell those shares, any gain you recognize will be capital gain (or loss if you sell them at a loss).
Incentive stock options:
When you exercise an ISO, you do not include the spread in your income. To be able to exclude the spread from your income, you must meet certain holding requirements.
The stock acquired by exercising the option must be held until the later of:
One year following the day the stock was transferred to you on exercise.
Two years after the date the option was granted to you.
If you meet these requirements, when you sell the stock, any gain or loss is taxed as a capital gain or loss rather than ordinary income.
If you later sell the stock but you didn't satisfy the holding-period requirements, the gain will be divided into two pieces: The spread will be ordinary income, and the amount over that will be capital gain (just like NSOs).
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Don't mean to hijack the thread, but here's how to figure out the tax impact on options. (I'm assuming these are options received through employment.) There is a difference in tax treatment between a statutory (aka qualified) and nonstatutory (aka non-qualified) option.
Thanks but I wasn't clear. These were very advanced type option trades where I had purchased a call option, later sold short a call option at a different strike and expiration against that original one, then later sold the orginal option and went naked short the further out of the money option. Tax time rolled around and this happened over a new year so I had to figure out if I owed tax on the fractured spread this year or next year.
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Edit:
-Someone called a family member calming to be me suck down in Mexico and saying to wire money. Decided to delete orignal post incase someone was taking information from this and knew that I was in a bad situation.
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Hi guys,
I went back and removed some information from the original post.
I just got a phone call from a family member i don't talk to often, that they got a phone call from someone, in Mexico claiming to be me down there and stuck in a car accident and to wire a bunch of money immediately and they were using my name and some details about me.
I don't know where they were getting the information, but I am decided to edit the original post for that reason.
I'll keep updating this and letting you guys know how things go.
- I have an interview that I am going to, so thats good. I have an elevator pitch I made, to try to get their attention and get the details of my experience in a few mins, and then some tactics for interviewing behavior questions. Im re-ironing out my clothes right now to make sure they look ok, polishing my shoes, again.
That's a pretty standard scam/spam type of thing. More likely connected to FB or your email address as opposed to the forum. Just my two cents.
Good luck with your interview.
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Edit:
-Interview with Goodwill, I thought it went really good.
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Maybe I missed this, OP, but did you send your resume to any of the folks here who offered to review it? If you're barely even getting any interviews, then that's going to be a crucial step for you.
I offered to review the OP's resume and haven't received it. The offer still stands.
Thank you for the offers. I've had my college review my resume as well as a state unemployment office give me assistance on improving it and then several family members who have looked at it. I have several different versions of it, but I feel its up to date/modern/ok.
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About the student loans -- instead of getting them deferred, get on an income-based repayment (IBR) option. If you have $0 income, you should have $0 repayment. This is better than having them deferred because you only have so many years of deferment available, whereas there is no limit to IBR.
Thanks for the advice, I am thinking of doing at this point, but I think the deferment request is still processing. It's showing I owe $0 right now for the payment. And it just past the 6 month deadline a few days ago.
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Maybe I missed this, OP, but did you send your resume to any of the folks here who offered to review it? If you're barely even getting any interviews, then that's going to be a crucial step for you.
Also, are you living in a place where there's a decent number of sublets available? Doing a sublet can get you around the obstacle of not having a job and thus having a very tough time finding a rental of your own.
I've tried contacting people on craigslist for rent by the month ads, and I couldn't get anyone to respond or got a lot of spam back. But sublets are a good idea.
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Sounds like posting to the MMM boards was an excellent step -- lots of concrete advice has come up. Like a few others, I have little to add but wanted to acknowledge your post, your difficult situation and wish you the best. Keep taking the steps you have been taking. Keep working hard. This too shall pass.
I am glad I posted on here, so much good advice and wisdom imo. I am reading everything, everyone posts and considering it.
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Thanks for the update and good luck on the Goodwill interview!
I have this follow-up advice: Get out from behind the computer. Seriously, it's really hard to get a job just shooting off e-applications. Print a stack of resumes, clean yourself up, and start walking around. Smile and give out 20 per day.
Thanks for the advice. I have been doing that, going out and hitting the pavement. Pretty much everywhere, i'm getting, "Check online if there is an opening and apply online." I've been also following up at places, that mostly how i've been getting interviews. Going back in after I apply of a position and introducing myself and asking for a interview. I've been getting a lot of "Well contact you if we have an opening/Well contact you if were interested, no need to come in again"
But a good idea none the less.
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Edit:
-Getting ready to leave the state for a different state
-Considering the PNW region and North Dakota
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Just want to make sure you considered this offer
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/graduated-college-but-can't-find-workalmost-homeless/msg120463/#msg120463
I think msg 35 where someone offered pace to stay in DC.
I've heard Portland has high unemployment, but a relatively okay place to be unemployed, or to do your own business....
It does rain a lot there.
Very bike friendly, yes.
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Just want to make sure you considered this offer
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/graduated-college-but-can't-find-workalmost-homeless/msg120463/#msg120463
I think msg 35 where someone offered pace to stay in DC.
I've heard Portland has high unemployment, but a relatively okay place to be unemployed, or to do your own business....
It does rain a lot there.
Very bike friendly, yes.
I did see that post, thank you.
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Seattle is great but a tad expensive. Maybe try the outskirts or up toward Everett, WA. We live in the Cascade foothills but it is only a 45 min drive to downtown Seattle.
Issaquah is expensive as I think it got the overflow from microsofties. Snohomish, Monroe, Lake Stevens, Marysville are all cheaper and yet still nice.
If you were in software I could find you a job here in Seattle in about 2 minutes. Business might be harder but should be possible. How were your grades?
As far as biking they just finished a 30 mile paved bike trail that goes from Snohomish to Arlington...and that is one of about 30 in the area.
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Try Pittsburgh. It's incredibly cheap (check out Pittsburgh Craigslist if you don't believe me) and it's as if the recession never happened there, or so say my several friends who live there. I even know a landlord there I could point you to, although at the moment all his houses are full. Also, since there are universities there you'd probably find a lot of sublets, although in college towns this isn't the best time of year for that (summer is). Also, if it's going to take you 34 hours to drive to Portland from wherever you are, Pittsburgh has to be way closer to you! And, did I mention, way cheaper?
Edited to add, I just looked it up and the unemployment rate in Pittsburgh is only 6.5%. And check out the prices for renting rooms:
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/roo/
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I'm a little late to the party here, but I'll second the military option. The National Guard will pay back up to $50,000 of your student loans, you'll get active duty pay while you're in training (15+ weeks), health care for $52/month, security clearance/ other credentials that translate well to the civilian world (depending on what MOS you choose), and more. I know the Guard in my state also has a dedicated staff that helps people find work--short- and long-term. I put a few of my soldiers in touch with them and they got jobs quickly.
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Hi,
I just found a site that may be some help. I was looking for a friend for a different reason (I'll get to that). Anyway the site is:
http://www.boondockerswelcome.com/
Boondocking is apparently an RVer word for sleeping in an RV or car in a spot way out in the boonies with no hookup. The website is a membership thing (about $40 a year?) and people can offer space to sleep in their driveway or whatever.
Also look at couch surfing site. People offer to let you stay on their couch etc.
https://www.couchsurfing.org/
Gee, I don't know why I didn't think to tell you this before (sorry) -- also try helpx.
People usually offer room and board in exchange for labor. It is mostly short term, and often in summer, but it is certainly worth looking. All over the country, short term work.
http://www.helpx.net/index.asp
The reason I found the boondocking site is that my friend has land in Idaho (no house, no electric), and she would like to have someone stay there -- probably in an RV ? So we were looking for a way for her to find someone who needs a place to stay. It's just beautiful land, but like I said no house. If you want to camp there on your way to Portland or whatever send me a PM. There's potentially work in the area (washing dishes etc) but it gets cold there so heat is expensive in the winter.
This listing near Portland seems worth considering?
http://www.helpx.net/host.asp?hostID=11413&network=5
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Sell your plasma. Substitute teach. Work at something like McDonald's. Military. More than once I've gone to businesses and asked if I could work for free, that I wanted to learn. I've always said, if anyone ever did that to me, they'd probably end up owning my business. Surprisingly most said "no", I assume one of the reasons was they probably thought I was trying to do a workman's comp scam. But actually I just wanted to learn.
I moved from the East Coast to Seattle as a kid. Got a job on a seafood processing boat that suffered damage at sea. Paid $6/hr. From there got lucky and got a job in the steel mills. They hired me solely that I was a vet and they would get tax credits.
After working for them for 1 year, saving $5K, I hitchhiked around the country to see where I'd like to live. Been here in SoCal ever since.
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Edit:
-Student loan deferment approved.
-Email inbox flooded with rejection letters from companies and or I call to inquire about a position after interviews and am told I was not hired.
-My dad ended up letting my come stay with him, so I ended up driving across the country.
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-I keep thinking about some stuff I read on Mr. Money Mustache's Blog. He had an article that he wrote about redoing bathrooms and wrote something like "Buy a tile saw, throw it in the back of your truck, and find work doing tile for people at $40 an hour." I've also heard a story about a guy who started a company with just himself, a beat up old pickup truck, a shovel, sledge hammer and now runs demolition company with several employees and makes over $100K a year. That all sounds amazing, but I don't know where or how to start anything like that. Like how do I find the jobs? How can I get experience? How can I start something like this with zero experience and very little money? I've tried applying for entry level apprentice plumber and carpenter programs, but never got past the pay a fee and submit an application process. I can't seem to get in.
I have a SUV, my self and time. How can I turn that into a business that makes money and has the potential to expand? I like the idea of improving homes like MMM does. I also like watching those TV shows like Rental Property where they buy the beat up foreclosed and turn it into an house with an apartment that pays for the mortgage. That looks like fun. But I have no idea how I could even break into something like that. I can't figure out how to start something like this, I am really trying to think of ways to do it, but starting seems to be the hardest part.
What kind of work are you helping your dad do? Are you gaining any new skills there? Is your dad involved in any community or church groups? He could put out the word that you're available for odd jobs and you never know what might crop up. See if your dad knows any contractors who would be willing to let you apprentice for them. Now that you've landed (albeit temporarily) somewhere where you have a small network, ask for support from that network, and grow it!
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I'm glad you found a place to stay for a while. Your situation sounds very unfortunate; I can't imagine what it would be like to be in a tight spot like that and not have family or friends willing to help you out. I was talking to a friend just yesterday about how a friend of hers was staying on her living room floor for a while because she blew through her savings while looking for work and now had a job but couldn't afford an apartment yet. We need that kind of safety net and it seems to me awful to not have one. I'm sorry you're stuck in such a place.
I've been following your thread for a while (since I started reading the forum, actually), and one thing I've noticed is that you seem to have transitioned to the traditional minimum-wage and unskilled job categories. And while I don't think it would hurt to keep applying to those, you do have some skills and experience (I remember something about working at a bank and a business degree?). You took those classes for a reason, you must have learned something that sets you apart. Sit down. Figure out what that is. MMM suggests a lot of handyman work, but if that isn't a skill you developed previously and you don't have at least a little capital to experiment with, and no one to 'tag along' with to show you the ropes, that may not be a good option for you. But something else is. If you can't figure out what it is or where and how you can use it, maybe try sitting down with Craigslist job postings (another MMM suggestion from that same jobs article) and seeing which ones make you say "I can do that!"
After college I faced a situation where no one would want me for an internship if I was honest about going into my PhD (generally they want to hire people they can get back in a year or two as full time employees). And I would have a hard time bending the truth in interviews. So I looked at my other skills. Among other things, I liked working with kids and I loved (and missed) the outdoors and had unofficial experience with outdoors skills. I applied to summer camps. I got some rejections but some interviews, and eventually a fantastic summer job back where I grew up. While I would be open to doing that again if I stalled on my job search after grad school, I might instead try for a tutoring position; something I've done on and off since high school (kind of related to my field/career goals, but not what I would like to do indefinitely).
I feel like the most successful job searches start with "what do I want to do that people will pay me for?" The more specialized a field you pick, the fewer other candidates you have to compete with (in a sense...obviously not everyone actually applies to retail/food jobs but almost anyone can do them, so the potential field of applicants is bigger). The other advantage is if it's genuinely something you want to do and know something about or are willing to learn, you come across way better in interviews, naturally.
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It's good that you will be able to stay with your dad for a few weeks.
I have found for friends who are looking for work that it is hard to get a job if you don't have a local address, so when you start applying for jobs in Phoenix be sure to use the Phoenix address.
I would apply for both jobs related to your degree and any other job I saw while in Phoenix if I were you. My mom has always gone about getting jobs by walking into businesses and asking to speak with the manager. I think this is a better approach than just putting in an application for most restaurant and sales jobs, unless they are larger companies. But in your case trying the smaller businesses where you can speak to the actual owner, or at least a manager who doesn't have to go through a human resources department in order to make a hiring decision will allow you a shot at making a good personal impression. I have another family member who travels frequently and often walks up to construction sites and asks if they need someone. Construction experience definitely helps him land those gigs, but it's worth a try if they need someone to haul stuff. Also have you met with any temp agencies? They might be able to place you in some temp jobs and you could keep applying for other jobs in the meantime.
Regarding Portland - A LOT of people move to Portland from the mid-west and figure they'll sort out the job thing afterward. Most of them seem to ultimately work it out, but it's not an easy road.
I think everyone on this thread is rooting for you. You seem to be persistent and have a good attitude. Try to keep hope, and maybe even look up a few stories of people famous for their successes after periods where they either were or were nearly homeless. The singer Jewel and Mark Cuban, and Chris Gardner are three who come to mind, but I am sure there are many more. Their stories might be a little pick me up for your spirits. Being at a down point doesn't mean you'll be there forever, it just means it's where you're passing through now.
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Thanks so much for continuing to update--we are indeed rooting for you. I think it's great that you've landed in a place where you can at least catch a breath for a few weeks. If your relationship with your Dad is ok, would you consider staying put in Phoenix for even a few months, just to save up a bit of a cushion, even if you don't think you want to stay there?
Phoenix is big enough to have good temp agencies. Take your "freshly graduated from college" optimistic self from months back into all of them with your resume and get yourself some short-term work. Anything at this point will be good for your self-esteem and your pocketbook, and your dad might be ok if you stay for a little longer if he knows you're working and saving for the next leg of your journey.
A note about construction: my DH is a carpenter. The trades often don't work the way students are trained to think about work (ie, take your resume in, show your credentials, interview and get hired). Instead, call or go down to company offices, and tell them you are considering a career in the trades and want to get some experience. You are going to be *labour*; that's the key job you're looking for. Most companies will stick you on a job somewhere to try you out; they expect to train, but they will be looking for attitude, reliability, work ethic, etc. If you're willing and interested, it will go from there. In Canada, the actual trades jobs (carpenter, plumber, etc) are done by apprentice programs that coincide with the school programs, so if you get on with a company you like, they will often sponsor your schooling through the apprenticeship. So don't worry about that step yet.
One way to find a labour job is just to go around the city and look for construction sites; ask to find out who the supervisor/foreman is, go from there.
Good luck!
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Definitely go to the temp agencies.
Also - construction may be difficult in that area, a lot of construction jobs are done by Mexican immigrants and illegals in the southwest. But with all those elderly retirees, a good handyman could make a nice living.
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I am so glad you have found a bit of respite from your stressful situation. At least the student loans are off your plate for awhile, and you have a base from which to regroup. I know you have to do an all-out search for paid work, but in the absence of such work, perhaps some volunteering would help you make some contacts, boost your own confidence in your general usefulness and impress your dad with your work ethic (in case he doubted it). One more thing -- you're in a pretty large city now, so maybe there are temp agencies you can register with? I don't have a whole lot more to offer at this point, except to reiterate that I am pulling for you and was very glad to see your post today.
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Oops, I see a bunch of us had the temp agency idea at the same time!
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What kind of work are you helping your dad do? Are you gaining any new skills there? Is your dad involved in any community or church groups? He could put out the word that you're available for odd jobs and you never know what might crop up. See if your dad knows any contractors who would be willing to let you apprentice for them. Now that you've landed (albeit temporarily) somewhere where you have a small network, ask for support from that network, and grow it!
Just stuff like cleaning the kitchen/house, yard work and help build some cabinets and shelves. It mostly to give me a place to stay temporary versus my previous plan of sleeping in my car somewhere.
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Can you make a flyer with lists of household jobs you can do and out them in the doors if your dad's neighbors with your contact info on it? Think house cleaning, dog walking, dog sitting, house sitting, yard work, etc. That should get you cash until you can get a temp job or assignment. Also consider checking any local colleges campus newspapers. There could be ads for jobs for students (part time, no experience required).
Also, get a LinkedIn profile up and current. Make sure it looks polished and professional. Use it linkedin to network.
We are rooting for you. You can do this!
Also, I recommend you read the book Scratch Beginnings.
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I'm glad you found a place to stay for a while. Your situation sounds very unfortunate; I can't imagine what it would be like to be in a tight spot like that and not have family or friends willing to help you out. I was talking to a friend just yesterday about how a friend of hers was staying on her living room floor for a while because she blew through her savings while looking for work and now had a job but couldn't afford an apartment yet. We need that kind of safety net and it seems to me awful to not have one. I'm sorry you're stuck in such a place.
I've been following your thread for a while (since I started reading the forum, actually), and one thing I've noticed is that you seem to have transitioned to the traditional minimum-wage and unskilled job categories. And while I don't think it would hurt to keep applying to those, you do have some skills and experience (I remember something about working at a bank and a business degree?). You took those classes for a reason, you must have learned something that sets you apart. Sit down. Figure out what that is. MMM suggests a lot of handyman work, but if that isn't a skill you developed previously and you don't have at least a little capital to experiment with, and no one to 'tag along' with to show you the ropes, that may not be a good option for you. But something else is. If you can't figure out what it is or where and how you can use it, maybe try sitting down with Craigslist job postings (another MMM suggestion from that same jobs article) and seeing which ones make you say "I can do that!"
After college I faced a situation where no one would want me for an internship if I was honest about going into my PhD (generally they want to hire people they can get back in a year or two as full time employees). And I would have a hard time bending the truth in interviews. So I looked at my other skills. Among other things, I liked working with kids and I loved (and missed) the outdoors and had unofficial experience with outdoors skills. I applied to summer camps. I got some rejections but some interviews, and eventually a fantastic summer job back where I grew up. While I would be open to doing that again if I stalled on my job search after grad school, I might instead try for a tutoring position; something I've done on and off since high school (kind of related to my field/career goals, but not what I would like to do indefinitely).
I feel like the most successful job searches start with "what do I want to do that people will pay me for?" The more specialized a field you pick, the fewer other candidates you have to compete with (in a sense...obviously not everyone actually applies to retail/food jobs but almost anyone can do them, so the potential field of applicants is bigger). The other advantage is if it's genuinely something you want to do and know something about or are willing to learn, you come across way better in interviews, naturally.
You might be right. I have messed around with carpentry a little bit, just building basic things and basic home repair. But nothing that I could really go out and be like "Hire me to fix something in your house!". My skills aren't that developed. As far as schooling, I got a degree in Business. My past work experience has been in retail as a cashier/forklift driver, fast food, call center customer service and working in a college chemistry lab for a year. I've been applying to banks for any type of position. I want to get out of working at call centers/retail/fast food and into some type of office job. I'd say retail/call center/fast food are jobs that I really don't enjoy working at. But right now, I can't seem to get hired at any type of job.
What do I want to do, play video games. Am I good at it? Yes. But making money at that, I don't know if you can. :)
I get what your saying about the how there are more potential applicants for fast food versus something not everyone can do.
Thats pretty neat about how you ended up working a summer camp and found out you really enjoyed it.
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Definitely go to the temp agencies.
Also - construction may be difficult in that area, a lot of construction jobs are done by Mexican immigrants and illegals in the southwest. But with all those elderly retirees, a good handyman could make a nice living.
Thats one thing that I've seen here, people here pick up immigrants who stand on the corners, most don't speak english, I think they hire them for like $10 an hour to dig ditches or what ever they need help with. After the housing bubble burst, lots of construction jobs here dried up. I know its harder to get into then it was before.
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What happened to the OP here?? It's now impossible to decipher this thread because it looks like the whole background in the first post has been edited out. Why would you do that?
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I am so glad you have found a bit of respite from your stressful situation. At least the student loans are off your plate for awhile, and you have a base from which to regroup. I know you have to do an all-out search for paid work, but in the absence of such work, perhaps some volunteering would help you make some contacts, boost your own confidence in your general usefulness and impress your dad with your work ethic (in case he doubted it). One more thing -- you're in a pretty large city now, so maybe there are temp agencies you can register with? I don't have a whole lot more to offer at this point, except to reiterate that I am pulling for you and was very glad to see your post today.
Edit:
-Applied to temp agencies in the past, no luck.
-Still trying to find work.
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What happened to the OP here?? It's now impossible to decipher this thread because it looks like the whole background in the first post has been edited out. Why would you do that?
Edit:
-Worried about to much personal information in first few posts, so ended up deleting stuff.
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Definitely apply for a hardship forbearance with your loans. Most student loans allow you to submit proof of (lack of) income and further defer your loans without using up your limited non-emergency forbearance/deferment months. There's no reason you should be paying your loans right now if you're not making enough to put a roof over your head.
Are you interviewing cross country? Just out of school with a business degree should allow you to apply anywhere and do some phone interviews, and maybe even find an employer willing to fly you in if they need in-person interviews. Try to do a lot via Skype.
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Definitely apply for a hardship forbearance with your loans. Most student loans allow you to submit proof of (lack of) income and further defer your loans without using up your limited non-emergency forbearance/deferment months. There's no reason you should be paying your loans right now if you're not making enough to put a roof over your head.
Are you interviewing cross country? Just out of school with a business degree should allow you to apply anywhere and do some phone interviews, and maybe even find an employer willing to fly you in if they need in-person interviews. Try to do a lot via Skype.
Thats good advice with the loans. I've tried applying all over the country. I've had a few calls for interviews but they all canceled once they found out I wasn't living there. :/ ... I don't know what else I can do, everything i'm doing isn't working. I'm trying to incorporate everyones suggestions they've given me on here. Hopefully that will get me something somewhere.
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I see you like video games. Yes, I'd say that's a pretty hard thing to make money at, but it is possible. Do you like to write? And can you review games, or give strategies? I have a friend in college that was the same. So he just found whatever job he could. I like the temp agency idea above. A lot will help you with resume, and applying. They get a commission off of your salary, so they will definitely try to help you get hired. But get whatever job you can, and then in your free time, blog about it. (affiliate links to the games for hopefully some income) Reviews to games, features you wish were in games, etc. It doesn't even have to be recent games. review some of the oldies but goodies games too. As long as you can make every article (because you never know which article someone is going to see first) entertaining or funny, and something someone wants to read, AND you keep at it, good things will happen. My friend blogged for probably about 2 years. Constantly promoting his site, and writing good, informative articles. then he was invited to do some guest posting on other blogs with higher readership, and so got his name out there. It took a while, but he now is having the time of his life doing PR and going to gaming conventions for a gaming studio.
I also have another friend that says he wants to be a sports writer, and tried to take the same route, but he blogs so infrequently, about once every 2 months, that people forget about his blog, and stopped reading. Point being, you've got to want it. If you don't enjoy writing, then you're not going to want it. However try it out once (write an article and give it to a friend who also likes video games to read, before posting it, to get some feedback), as I would say I hate writing, but when it's about something I like, I actually really like it.
I have to caution you though, that you're probably going to end up hating video games for a bit. Because in order to not just get caught up in playing the game, you're going to have to be disciplined and only play when you are writing an article for it, because the rest of the time is going to be taken up with writing, and proofreading, and marketing your blog. So if you decide to go down this route, just make sure you don't spend an entire saturday playing video games because you're justifying it as "research," but then you never actually write.
Try the temp agency route, or settle for a crappier job (I know you're not settling, but rather not hearing anything, but maybe if you can go to a taco bell or something, if you haven't already, and just suffer through it for a bit), and just know that if you want it hard enough, you can eventually get it.
Good luck! We're all rooting for you!!
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I think everyone on this thread is rooting for you. You seem to be persistent and have a good attitude. Try to keep hope, and maybe even look up a few stories of people famous for their successes after periods where they either were or were nearly homeless. The singer Jewel and Mark Cuban, and Chris Gardner are three who come to mind, but I am sure there are many more. Their stories might be a little pick me up for your spirits. Being at a down point doesn't mean you'll be there forever, it just means it's where you're passing through now.
I had to look that third person (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Gardner) up.
Very interesting story, thanks for pointing it out.
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Lack of working experience is no reason to reject somebody for entry level positions. Thats what the entry level is for, people who don't have experience yet. Since you've had several interviews, I'd also say that the problem is not your resume, although I can't be sure about this. I'd thus suggest training for job interviews. If your parents or anybody you know have office jobs that you also aspire to do, ask them whether they'd be willing to have a little 'fake' job interview for training purposes. Let them give you feedback and get better at it.
I've done this when I got out of school and college, too, and it helped me a LOT.
You have to come across as an energetic, open-minded, friendly and smart person for most companies to give it a shot. Try to ask yourself why people are hired for and what you would be looking for in an employee if you were a business owner.
The current situation might have gotten to you a little bit and hurt your self esteem, so that potential employers don't get the right vibes from you. Try to change that back again and you'll be able to land your job.
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Video games: I live in Silicon Valley (California). It's insanely expensive here for housing, so I don't recommend it. There are a few jobs testing games, and they want to hire gamers for these. Ideally with testing experience. Pay seems to be around $15 an hour which is VERY LOW compared to other jobs testing software. If you want to know more, post and ask, I can expound. I am not thinking ths is a good bet, but wanted to mention it because it is game related.
There are also some websites with piece-work, usually at fairly low rates. Elance.com is a big one.
Care.com is a site for offering/finding home care help.... Child care, pet care, elder care. I don't know if they have carpentry but I doubt it.
I liked the idea with making a flyer and taking it around the neighborhood.
Window washing - I read some article about how to get started ..... Can be for businesses or homes.
There should be a lot of pool services where you are. Wonder if any would welcome an apprentice?
Renovating houses: I don't see how you can do it without start up cash. You could find some people who flip houses in the area where you are, call them and ask them if they know somebody who wants to do renovations and is investing but doesn't have the skills or time to do the house fix ups. What you need is somebody who has the money but not the time.
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Put an ad on Craigslist offering to transport and assemble IKEA furniture. I think there's always a market for this kind of service. Many people don't have access to a car or get flummoxed when they get the actual boxes home. I'm not sure if this would be relevant in Phoenix, but it's amazing what a cordless screwdriver, a container of nuts and bolts and some muscle can accomplish.
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Task rabbit (website, service) has a category for IKEA furniture setup IIRC.
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/lifestyle/taskrabbit.com-offers-'runners'-to-do-basic-chores-for-you
Btw, I hate the name "task rabbit". Their site is organized for listing tasks, a bit like the Craigslist category for "gigs" rather than "jobs".
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I don't mean to be negative, but I'm having a hard time believing that you, as a normal college graduate, can be having that hard a time finding even an unskilled job -- there's got to be some other factor you haven't told us about. You don't have a facial tattoo or anything, right?
I just got a phone call from a family member i don't talk to often, that they got a phone call from someone, in Mexico claiming to be me down there and stuck in a car accident and to wire a bunch of money immediately and they were using my name and some details about me.
I don't know where they were getting the information, but I am decided to edit the original post for that reason.
I suggest that you run a background check on yourself (not just credit history, but criminal record too). I'm beginning to think you might be getting turned down because some serial killer has the same name and date of birth as you, or somebody stole your identity.
I keep thinking about some stuff I read on Mr. Money Mustache's Blog. He had an article that he wrote about redoing bathrooms and wrote something like "Buy a tile saw, throw it in the back of your truck, and find work doing tile for people at $40 an hour." I've also heard a story about a guy who started a company with just himself, a beat up old pickup truck, a shovel, sledge hammer and now runs demolition company with several employees and makes over $100K a year. That all sounds amazing, but I don't know where or how to start anything like that. Like how do I find the jobs? How can I get experience? How can I start something like this with zero experience and very little money? I've tried applying for entry level apprentice plumber and carpenter programs, but never got past the pay a fee and submit an application process. I can't seem to get in.
I have a SUV, my self and time. How can I turn that into a business that makes money and has the potential to expand? I like the idea of improving homes like MMM does. I also like watching those HGN TV shows like Rental Property where they buy the beat up foreclosed home and turn it into an house with an apartment that pays for the mortgage. That looks like fun. But I have no idea how I could even break into something like that. I can't figure out how to start something like this, I am really trying to think of ways to do it, but starting seems to be the hardest part.
Forgive me if I sound like an asshole for asking, but isn't a business degree is supposed to teach you how to start a business?
Regarding the bit about doing tile work, the only not-completely-specific step was "find work doing tile." I would assume a more specific direction for that would be the following: "Post signs on telephone poles, hand out flyers, and post ads on Craigslist advertising your tiling services. Then diligently return potential customers' phone calls, show up on time and in a presentable manner (i.e., a polo shirt, long pants and closed-toed shoes), don't slack off when you're supposed to be tiling, and clean up after yourself." You could even do your first couple of jobs at $10-$20 an hour (plus materials) instead of $40 on the condition that the customer give you good reviews/word-of-mouth. (Oh yeah, and if you don't know how to tile, it wouldn't hurt to take a free Home Depot class before the first customer hires you.)
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Forgive me if I sound like an asshole for asking, but isn't a business degree is supposed to teach you how to start a business?
In short, no, not at all. Most business degrees teach you how to best manage someone else's business, usually a big one. What you are thinking of is entrepreneurship which is usually taught as a separate track, and the curricula don't cross over very much if at all in most schools.
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Forgive me if I sound like an asshole for asking, but isn't a business degree is supposed to teach you how to start a business?
In short, no, not at all. Most business degrees teach you how to best manage someone else's business, usually a big one. What you are thinking of is entrepreneurship which is usually taught as a separate track, and the curricula don't cross over very much if at all in most schools.
Ah, good to know! I would have considered getting an MBA if I decided to start a business, but now I know better...
Sorry, iwanttobelive.
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Forgive me if I sound like an asshole for asking, but isn't a business degree is supposed to teach you how to start a business?
In short, no, not at all. Most business degrees teach you how to best manage someone else's business, usually a big one. What you are thinking of is entrepreneurship which is usually taught as a separate track, and the curricula don't cross over very much if at all in most schools.
Ah, good to know! I would have considered getting an MBA if I decided to start a business, but now I know better...
Sorry, iwanttobelive.
I would advise that if you want to start a business, don't bother with a big expensive degree - just start a really small one! Gets your feet wet with keeping books, government paperwork, etc, and perhaps you can sell it and start a bigger one if you like it.
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Edit:
-Say I am no longer going to update this thread
-Goodwill decided not to hire me "Chose more qualified candidate"
-Still no job
-Dad asks me to find a different living situation.
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Best wishes.
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I am no longer going to update this thread.
Please don't say that! We want to hear the inspiring story about how you overcome the adversity.
Have you tried out the tile work or Task Rabbit ideas?
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I hope things get better for you.
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Bummer. I wish you well.
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If you are still in Phoenix, apply to Amazon via their contract company. You have forklift experience. The Christmas season starts almost immediately. There are several warehouses and I know people with no background working there. Pay starts at $11/ hour. Overtime as you get closer to Christmas. People camp in RV parks and work there. Give it a shot.
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Edit:
-I say I will update this
-Still no job, lots of rejection
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I'm sorry to hear that. Listen, are you physically fit enough to do something that's not a desk job or a sitting-down-while-driving job? Reason I ask is that any trade you could name will pay better than most desk jobs (post-apprenticeship you're looking at the high 5 figures or over $100k if you really hustle), and on top of that it gives you a skill (plumbing, carpentry, whichever trade you choose) that you can use to start your own business.
Becoming a plumber in Arizona: http://www.ehow.com/how_7731776_become-plumber-arizona.html
Or http://www.azwaca.org/pipefitters.htm
Requires a 4- to 5-year well-paid apprenticeship with a licensed plumber. Basically, you are paid to learn your trade (whereas with everything else, you have to pay some college to train you for a hoped-for future job).
Becoming an electrician in Arizona: http://www.ehow.com/how_6924528_do-become-electrician-arizona_.html
Requires a 4-year paid apprenticeship plus 900 hours of classroom time (which you have to pay for--so, there's a higher barrier to entry than there is in plumbing)
Becoming a carpenter in Arizona: http://www.azwaca.org/carpenters.htm (there's also info on a lot of other trades down the right side of the page)
4-year apprenticeship, during which you're paid 55% of what a journeyman carpenter makes (a Journeyman is a licensed carpenter who is not a "Master Carpenter").
My understanding is that the pay for tradespeople, from lowest to highest, goes like so: painter - carpenter - plumber - electrician. The lower the pay, the easier it is to get into the trade. Also, every plumber I have talked to says there's nobody getting into the trade now--none of their sons or daughters, or their children's friends, wants to get into it. I mention that because there may be greater opportunities there--in other words it may be easier to get yourself an apprenticeship.
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Have you tried registering with a company that hires out temp employees? I know you can get temp jobs for both office work and warehouse work. With the Christmas season coming, there should be more call for temp employees. I'm not saying it's a guarantee, but I filled several jobless periods in my life with temp work. Kelly Services is a famous one. As a bonus, after you've worked there a while, many companies try to hire you on the sly. (It's against the rules, but they're always looking for ways -- or they can hire you aboveboard and pay the temp agency a fee.) I was offered at least four jobs after temping.
Failing that, is there volunteer work that you could do? Many places hire their own volunteers when they have an opening. Even volunteering for a soup kitchen, you'd get free food!
Wishing you the best, and please don't give up.
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I hope you don't take this as nastiness, because it's the last thing in the world I mean-- is there anything about you that you can imagine, in your wildest dreams, might be working against you? Based on all of your reports, it *sounds* like you're taking all the right steps. The only thing I can conclude is that either you are dressing up the amount of work you are doing for our benefit or that there's something missing from this whole equation. The only thing from your writing here I can detect as potentially working against you is a bit of a defeatist attitude. If that's present in meeting people and looking for work, it may come across and harm you whether you intend it to or not.
In no particular order, is there any chance (and none of these are meant to be mean or insult you) that you...
... have any diagnosed mental condition or social awkwardness (Aspergers, etc.)?
... have poor personal hygiene habits? (Body odor, dirty clothing, extremely unfashionable/unprofessional/etc. wardrobe)
... have a speech impediment or difficulty in speaking confidently with others in public?
... you might be exaggerating slightly the scope and number of applications you have made? How many are you making per day? Are you making job applications a full time job (you should be)?
... you use profanity or coarse language in speaking with potential employers, even if you think it makes you seem "at ease?"
Once again, I am not looking to give you a hard time-- I'm just trying to turn over the remaining rocks looking for what could be going wrong for you. Maybe it would help to give us an example conversation (and not just "Hey, are you hiring?" "No.") that shows how you might respond to some of the questions you are getting when you walk in to a business and speak to the manager. Your spelling isn't perfect but it also isn't atrocious, so I can't imagine you come across as unintelligent... but there has to be something going on that we're not touching on here. On effort alone, you should have been able to land part time work just about anywhere. If there's something you feel might be holding you back, please do share-- you might be surprised at what people here have experienced and overcome.
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I was recently thinking about you and your situation because I was doing a lot of reading about the oil boom in North Dakota. You sure you don't want to give it a shot? The main problem up there seems not to be getting a job but finding a place to live. I wouldn't go without a job offer, personally, but people do it. I looked at jobs there. It seems a commercial driver's license gets you a decent job. Even better if you can add some endorsements; I saw "haz mat" listed and "tank." Maybe you could look into what it take to get a CDL where you are and then look for jobs to apply to there. I saved a bunch of links if you're interested.
My other ideas for you: Temp agency for sure. That's what I would try as a college graduate without a job. Even Manpower if you can't get "fancier" places to place you.
Substitute teacher. You only need a degree, not a teaching license, although you probably have to be "certified" by the state to be a substitute, meaning, you fill out a form, pay a fee, and get fingerprinted. There are always jobs in schools, if you didn't want to go the subbing route. Students who are on IEPs often have to have someone with them throughout their school day. These kinds of jobs don't pay a ton but better than fast food and retail like you've looked for. Figure out the names of the districts in the area you're in (or want to be in) and then just look at their websites for postings.
Good luck!
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Also, please don't stop posting.
First, because now we are all worried about you.
Second, because we want to help!
Third, because it'll be a great success story one day. :)
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Substitute teacher. You only need a degree, not a teaching license, although you probably have to be "certified" by the state to be a substitute, meaning, you fill out a form, pay a fee, and get fingerprinted.
This.
In my school district if you have any degree (and can pass the fingerprint test - i.e. aren't a convicted felon), you're in. They're hiring now (desperately need subs). They don't care about your job history or employment gap, interview skills, pretty much anything as long as you aren't a violent sex offender.
It pays $100/day (may be a bit more now, and if you take a "long term" sub position and do the same position every day you make like $25 more/day or something), and there's plenty of positions so you could work every day if you wanted. Cost of living here is cheap (you could find a small apartment for ~400/mo easily, or go with a roommate situation and pay less).
You only work weekdays that there is school, obviously, so the annual pay is fairly low, ~20-25k, but it's something to get you started and put on the resume and you can have it as long as you like until you find something else.
If you're in Phoenix, you're about 4-5 hours away from making it happen.
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Are you comfortable (if you haven't already) posting a sample resume and/or cover letter that you've been submitting for us to see? Feel free to redact personal information. That could help us pinpoint something that employers might take as a red flag. I've seen that there's a lot of really bright folks on this forum, and a lot of people who really want to help.
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- I am broke, no more money.
-$32,000 student loans in deferment building interest. $400 monthly payment currently, will be going up from the interest though.
I don't think you should be in forbearance right now, I think you should enter the repayment period and apply for the Income Based Repayment plan (Also known as IBR: http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-based/calculator). Since you have $0 income, your payment would be $0. You would still accrue interest, but after making the number of qualifying payments (including $0 payments), your loans will be forgiven. Or, if you get a job that qualifies you for the Public Service Student Loan Forgiveness program (http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/charts/public-service), in 10 years your loans could be completely forgiven.
Also, can you try volunteering? It won't make you any money, but it will give you: a) something productive to do with your time for a few hours once or twice a week, b) a sense of accomplishment, c) current references for resumes and such. I recommend this because it's how I recommend people get their foot in the door in my industry (public libraries). It's a horrible catch-22 where people without library experience can't get jobs in libraries, so I often tell people to just volunteer. You meet great people and start creating a network of people who can refer you to jobs or recommend you for jobs, etc. If you're good with technology, and it seems you are, you might be able to volunteer to teach seniors how to use computers. Libraries generally love having people volunteer, but lots of nonprofit organizations rely on volunteers so you could look up nonprofits in the phone book and see what interests you. It may be menial tasks, but like I said, it's some current experience and it's kind of like picking your own internship.
Please do keep updating us. FWIW, you'll be in my prayers. Best of luck!!
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I don't have anything else to add except I'm glad you checked back in and I wish you well.
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Just read through all of this, and wanted to say that I wish you the very best.
I know that you're not comfortable with government assistance, but maybe reconsider that for now. It exists for a reason. You can always pay it forward by volunteering in your community, etc.
The holiday season is coming, and stores are hiring. I'd apply at all of the usual (Macy's, Target, Best Buy, etc.), and if you are turned down, I would ask the hiring manager why you were not appropriate for the position. Be up front with them and tell them that you're having a hard time getting hired, and that you'd like a brutally honest opinion.
I really wish you the best, and hope that you do keep updating.
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I think we are missing something.
Time to be realistic here. Is there anything we don't know about? Care to post a picture of yourself, or an audio recording of your voice?
Maybe it's time to start lying on your resume and in interviews. Come up with a story you need to to get that entry level job. Grocery stoker job doesn't need to know you have a degree, just moved and live in your car, or your work history.
When I got my first job as a sacker at 17, the whole application and interview and hiring process was 8 seconds. I walked up to the floor manager and said, I want to apply for a job. He said, can you work Sundays? I said yes, he said: you're hired.
Seriously, let's get to the bottom of this.
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Here are two adds from my local paper (US):
"Drivers: Now hiring Short Haul CDL drivers, also for SE Regional and OTR Home Weekends. Great Pay. Benefits. 1855 673 2305"
And another one:
"Drivers needed: OTR & Regional, Great pay+401k CDL -A 6 mos. Call 1877 704 3773"
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Edit:
-Update, that I still haven't found work and I am still trying to find work.
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I am sorry but I am having diffulity understanding how you can't find a job when there are so many entry level clerical and IT jobs listed thru Temp agencies nowadays. Economy is picking up and even in Midwest there are bunch of new jobs being created.
I started my career from nothing thru one of those temp jobs after graduation, about 5 years ago, when the economy really sucked. So, I think something is not right here..
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Have you started volunteering? It might help to show that you're using your time in a productive way. Also, you'll have a few decent references from the organization you volunteer with.
Have you tried networking with alums in the area? I'm not sure where you went to school, but it might be worth a try to contact your alumni association to find people in the area.
Have you tried Task Rabbit? You might be able to do virtual tasks.
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Random idea... the Red Cross or similar blood bank? My mom got sick of her sales career a couple years ago and dropped it to work blood drives. They train you for free. I only thought of this because I have a friend/acquaintance who you remind me of... has a BS in chemical engineering (super hard to get and should get you a high-paying job almost anywhere, especially where we are) yet hasn't found a job in his field since he graduated despite huge amounts of input and networking help from friends. In his case the "one mysterious thing he's doing wrong" is that I'm pretty sure he has Asperger's. He is very uncomfortable to hold a conversation with sometimes. Sad but true. Anyway, he has worked for a while driving around delivering blood... weird gig but it works!
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11/1/2013
Just a short update:
Still haven't been able to find work.
Trying to find seasonal work:
I've tried getting with all the local retail/shipping places that are doing seasonal hiring. I've tried going in person and trying to speak with a manger and calling on the phone. I've been told to "Fill an application online" and they will contact me after that. So I've filled out the applications, a week passes I don't hear anything, I've gone back to the business and told them "Hey, I filled out an application I'd really like to work here, my name is xzy and I have a bunch of work experience doing xzy, I'd really like to interview". They act like they are really excited and tell me they have my name and will contact me if they have an opening. After that I never hear from them.
Still trying the regular job search:
Still trying the regular job search beyond seasonal positions. Still getting no where. I think this is what Permeant unemployment feels like. I keep getting farther and farther from when I was in school or I last had a job.
Since my last update on here I haven't been receiving any more rejection letters, i'm just not hearing anything back. I've also haven't been called in for interviews since leaving Ohio. I was getting about on average one interview every two weeks. Since I left I haven't been able to get a single interview.
My family is suggesting I go to Graduate school. I really don't want to take on more student loan debt. So thats likely not going to happen.
If you're not getting the interviews, you might want to try getting feedback on why not. Ask friends/family to be critical. Maybe you aren't zipping up your pants when you drop off your resumes. Maybe you're acting snobby/superior and you don't realize it. Best of all is if you can get a manager to say why. Maybe they just think you're overqualified. But maybe you're rude. You don't know until you ask.
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iwanttobelive, you didn't respond to the couple of us who questioned along these lines (and you're not really responding to any of the other suggestions either)-- But I think it's time to take a hard look at yourself. Why do *you* think you're getting no response? I have to seem harsh, but it's simply not that there are no jobs out there. People are throwing everything in the bag of tricks at you, and you're not mentioning whether you're trying any of them. Assuming your version of your efforts is accurate, there is something else at play here.
I have to ask again, what traits or behaviors do you think you might have which might be working against you? Further, if you think it's odd that nobody will hire you, are you persistently following up until someone tells you "No, sorry," and then are you asking what you might improve to have an opportunity next time? To me, it sounds like you're applying, following up, and letting it drop when you get no traction. If things are as desperate as you make them sound, you should be MUCH more aggressively pursuing each and every opening, until they are practically asking you to leave.
If the only purpose of this thread is for you to periodically come back and tell us that nothing you try is working, then there's not much point to it. Engage with us and we'll try to help.
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Edit:
-I fill in some background about going to a small college in a rural community and not being able to connect with previous grads.
-Still no job.
-Still trying to find work.
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Have you looked into substitute teaching yet? This sounds like your best option at this point.
Another possibility I'll throw in: Referee a sport. Basketball season is starting up soon. Find your local youth recreation league and tell the manager you're interested in training to be a ref. I've never heard of someone getting turned down in recreation refereeing, as they are always looking for more refs (it's not exactly a popular job).
Will you try one if not both of these two options, please?!
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I have a business degree and graduated last May and didn't find a "real" job until the next January. For me, it was really difficult to even get an interview. Most entry level jobs these days can have up to 1000 applicants.
I worked at a restaurant for tips and could make $600-700 a week. Jobs like retail and restaurant service do not always hire college grads because they could leave quickly. A few things to try:
Craigslist gigs section. You could also post an add in the services section. I posted a house cleaning service one and had several responses quickly.
Right of way work: Great for single college grads. Contact Coates Field Services http://www.coatesfieldservice.com/. I worked as a temp with them right out of college until I found my "real" job. Traveling agents can make really good money plus per diem (or free housing).
Also, do not discard public service work. These jobs are posted on individual state sites. I work for the state and many of our entry level (degree required) positions cannot even get filled because there are not enough applicants.
Also, if you do get an interview do your research. Know the company well. Websites like glass door often give the interview questions asked by specific companies. Also try googling interview questions for "administrative assistant job" or whatever job you are applying for. Be prepared to answer the hard questions well, like why haven't you had a job recently.
Good luck on your search
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I think that you're over-thinking the job history and too much/too little experience part. If a manager at Target is telling you that you've got too much or too little experience, it's likely just an excuse because they don't want to tell you the real reason that they're not hiring you.
I say that because as a teenager I was able to get a job at Best Buy with no professional references or previous experience, and I feel fairly confident that if I wanted to be hired for seasonal retail work that I could find a job within a week, even though my Master's would render me over-qualified in some ways. Almost all retail employers are willing to overlook age, experience, and work history.
I'm not trying to be a judgmental a-hole, but you've had quite a few glaring spelling and grammatical errors in your posts. It's the Internet, and we all tend to be more loosey-goosey about things, but you could come across stronger in writing. I mention this in case there are numerous errors on your resume or on the applications that you're turning in.
I also feel that there's likely some social cue that you're missing, or that you've got hygiene issues that offend, or some other thing about your person that is turning people off. Again, not trying to be rude, just trying to help you think this through further than just, "my work history sucks".
I really do wish you well. I think that all of us do. I hope that you take this post in the spirit in which it was meant.
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It's called IBRP. Get on it. http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-based
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Substitute teacher. You only need a degree, not a teaching license, although you probably have to be "certified" by the state to be a substitute, meaning, you fill out a form, pay a fee, and get fingerprinted.
This.
In my school district if you have any degree (and can pass the fingerprint test - i.e. aren't a convicted felon), you're in. They're hiring now (desperately need subs). They don't care about your job history or employment gap, interview skills, pretty much anything as long as you aren't a violent sex offender.
It pays $100/day (may be a bit more now, and if you take a "long term" sub position and do the same position every day you make like $25 more/day or something), and there's plenty of positions so you could work every day if you wanted. Cost of living here is cheap (you could find a small apartment for ~400/mo easily, or go with a roommate situation and pay less).
You only work weekdays that there is school, obviously, so the annual pay is fairly low, ~20-25k, but it's something to get you started and put on the resume and you can have it as long as you like until you find something else.
If you're in Phoenix, you're about 4-5 hours away from making it happen.
Bumping this. They will take anyone without a criminal record.
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Are you still in Arizona, iwanttobelieve?
Requirements for substitute teaching: http://www.azed.gov/educator-certification/files/2011/09/substitute-certificate.pdf
Here's the faq for more questions: http://www.azed.gov/educator-certification/faqs/ and the contact page: http://www.azed.gov/educator-certification/contact-certification/
Hope that helps!
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...
So an employer see's my resume and they see I've been in school the last 4 years moving around the country, one year of working as a student worker, then the rest of the time long bouts of no employment and a few temp positions (Call center cold call sales) that I was only able stay at for a few months. So my job gaps I imagine look bad (my college has told me this so has the state unemployment places), but I can't get a job anywhere to build up a year or longer at some place to build stability. I am not getting the chance.
I keep getting told two things when they actually give me a reason:
1. We don't think you'll stay because you have a college degree and we think you'll leave as soon as a better opportunity comes around.
2. You don't have enough experience for this position/enough related experience.
The rest of the time I get the "We decided to go with more qualified candidates." or no response.
If I leave my college degree off, it looks like I spent the last 4 years working only a few temp jobs and then sitting around doing nothing. I still don't hear anything back from that. All though one place told me I had been out of work to long for them to consider hiring me (this was a retail store).
I really feel at this point a lot of whats going on is the economy and off shoring of jobs. I did make some mistakes as I highlighted above. It really sucks not being able to get hired anywhere. It sucks even more when people tell you you're lazy because you can't find work when you're trying and family members turn their backs to you because your unemployed.
...
The next time I update this I'll update when I have a job and what I did to get it. Its turned into a whining thread "ahhh i don't have a job...", which is stupid and annoying for everyone (sorry).
You've got a lot going on here, and it seems like you're going to stop checking this thread, but I just wanted to touch on a couple things quick. First, you mentioned employment history being odd while you were in school. Unless a job you had is directly related to what you're applying for, don't even put it down. You were a full time student, you don't need to have employment during that period. There is no "job gap" while you're in school.
I don't know what type of work you're applying to, but you need to look for jobs that include "entry level" and "recent college grad" and those kinds of keywords. Don't apply for the job that says "Experience not necessary but preferred". That just means someone with experience is going to come along and get the job ahead of you. Don't apply for jobs where there are hundreds of applicants for one position. Apply to the jobs with multiple positions open. Trust me, as someone getting into law enforcement (hyper competitive in areas with only one or two job openings at a time), the key is to go where the jobs actually are. And no, the economy is not fantastic, but there are still tons of jobs out there.
I'm sorry, but I have to call you out on something. Enough of saying there are no jobs, or jobs are being out sourced or off shored, or the economy is just so bad no one can find work. BZZZZZ terrible attitude buddy. Your post comes off as incredibly negative, and I wonder if that is coming through in your interviews. Like a previous poster said, even if you're applying to a big box retailer, you need to smile and sound positive. You DON'T have to lie and say you intend to spend your life working at Target, but you do want to tell them how much you'd love to work there and how well you would do at the job (replace Target with whatever job you're applying for).
That said, good luck. Let us know what happens.
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Aww, honey - I'm sorry you are going through this, and I'm sorry your family is so useless.
Don't get too discouraged by some of the posts here - I think people are scared by the idea that it REALLY CAN be that hard for young people out there. So they keep looking for a reason why it must just be something you are doing wrong. But everything you are doing would have been enough in any other economy.
Please apply for any pertinent help in the meantime. This is the kind of situation that food stamps and general relief are intended for. Please take them.
I thought of you today, I was listening to TED talks radio on public radio, and there was a talk by the guy who does the tv show, Dirty Jobs. The whole podcast was on success, it's worth listening too. But in particular, the Dirty Jobs guy has started a charity to encourage people to train in needed trades:
http://profoundlydisconnected.com/the-next-big-thing/
Take a listen
http://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio-hour/
Meanwhile, please stay organized, get regular exercise and sunshine, take a multivitamin, keep a journal (there may be a book in all this someday!) and please stay intouch here, we care about you.
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Aww, honey - I'm sorry you are going through this, and I'm sorry your family is so useless.
Don't get too discouraged by some of the posts here - I think people are scared by the idea that it REALLY CAN be that hard for young people out there. So they keep looking for a reason why it must just be something you are doing wrong. But everything you are doing would have been enough in any other economy.
Please apply for any pertinent help in the meantime. This is the kind of situation that food stamps and general relief are intended for. Please take them.
I thought of you today, I was listening to TED talks radio on public radio, and there was a talk by the guy who does the tv show, Dirty Jobs. The whole podcast was on success, it's worth listening too. But in particular, the Dirty Jobs guy has started a charity to encourage people to train in needed trades:
http://profoundlydisconnected.com/the-next-big-thing/
Take a listen
http://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio-hour/
Meanwhile, please stay organized, get regular exercise and sunshine, take a multivitamin, keep a journal (there may be a book in all this someday!) and please stay intouch here, we care about you.
Well said frugaldrummer. This kid really needs a break.
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Don't get too discouraged by some of the posts here - I think people are scared by the idea that it REALLY CAN be that hard for young people out there. So they keep looking for a reason why it must just be something you are doing wrong. But everything you are doing would have been enough in any other economy.
I do appreciate that you're offering your support to the guy, but don't be so quick to dismiss the constructive criticism as fear or ignorance. I have recent and serious unemployment experience, including some serious consequences to my life. In my own advice to the guy, I'm trying to offer the benefit of some of that experience. Assuming all that we're getting is an accurate picture, given his dire straits, it's reasonable to address the "elephants in the room." It's not an indictment of his as a person, it's emergency triage/treatment of his approach to make sure he doesn't keep making the same mistakes.
In as dire a situation as the OP makes it sound, he shouldn't be letting the "no" or no-answer be the end of the story. He should be persistently and aggressively pursuing each position, including soliciting feedback from each and every hiring manager. As a manager of people, I can say that if someone were on the bubble and showed persistence and professionalism, I would at least respect them more, if not give them a second look. This is something the OP isn't currently doing well enough. Further, there have been a number of extremely promising suggestions made (such as substitute teaching) that the OP hasn't addressed. It makes me wonder about the OP that he will come back to update (Update: Still desperate, still screwed) but doesn't appear to be taking some of the most promising suggestions to heart. Some of his perceptions are not right (retail, teaching, etc. jobs are not being offshored) and I can't shake the feeling that the OP is either being selective in the telling of the story, or in his application of the advice.
TL;DR: We're not afraid just because we're pushing into uncomfortable territory-- we're trying to address the issues that might otherwise go unsaid which could be harming him. We care too.
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Don't get too discouraged by some of the posts here - I think people are scared by the idea that it REALLY CAN be that hard for young people out there. So they keep looking for a reason why it must just be something you are doing wrong. But everything you are doing would have been enough in any other economy.
I do appreciate that you're offering your support to the guy, but don't be so quick to dismiss the constructive criticism as fear or ignorance. I have recent and serious unemployment experience, including some serious consequences to my life. In my own advice to the guy, I'm trying to offer the benefit of some of that experience. Assuming all that we're getting is an accurate picture, given his dire straits, it's reasonable to address the "elephants in the room." It's not an indictment of his as a person, it's emergency triage/treatment of his approach to make sure he doesn't keep making the same mistakes.
In as dire a situation as the OP makes it sound, he shouldn't be letting the "no" or no-answer be the end of the story. He should be persistently and aggressively pursuing each position, including soliciting feedback from each and every hiring manager. As a manager of people, I can say that if someone were on the bubble and showed persistence and professionalism, I would at least respect them more, if not give them a second look. This is something the OP isn't currently doing well enough. Further, there have been a number of extremely promising suggestions made (such as substitute teaching) that the OP hasn't addressed. It makes me wonder about the OP that he will come back to update (Update: Still desperate, still screwed) but doesn't appear to be taking some of the most promising suggestions to heart. Some of his perceptions are not right (retail, teaching, etc. jobs are not being offshored) and I can't shake the feeling that the OP is either being selective in the telling of the story, or in his application of the advice.
TL;DR: We're not afraid just because we're pushing into uncomfortable territory-- we're trying to address the issues that might otherwise go unsaid which could be harming him. We care too.
+1
I too, have had unemployment, from 2010-2011, working only part-time during those years, in a different field. I sought to share the benefit of my experience.
I've done mock interviews, with people not my friends, to tell me whether I was displaying anything I didn't mean to be. (All I learned is that sometimes on hard questions, I have a habit of closing my eyes briefly, to answer. But no rudeness, gum chewing, ums/ahs, terrible answers, etc.) It doesn't sound like the OP has done this.
Having graduated twice into recessions, I have beyond substantial interviewing experience. I will go so far as to say I'm very good at it and I've contemplated writing a book on it. In my case, unlike the OP, I made it through numerous first and second round interviews, so the issue wasn't securing the interview, or even doing well in the interview, but rather in closing the deal in a hard market.
It sounds like we're only getting a partial picture. I have a friend who also has a hard time getting the job offer. She won't admit it, but I can tell you her issue: she won't apply in her home town and her resume/experience is not very linear in her desired field (she's been doing adjunct teaching). She's also stuck in that awkward middle spot of too experienced (3 masters) to get entry level, but without the solid direct experience to get further positions.
So, I wonder what else is going on, if he can't get retail. And I want to help. But, being nice and supportive sometimes (often) isn't what is needed as a bit of a reality check.
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Have you considered enlisting in the military? (I don't think anyone has mentioned this before but I can't remember.) That could be a great job and get you good experience...
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Today I saw a businessman in a suit standing on a corner with a big sign saying he was looking for a job as a salesman. The job side of this economy still has not recovered. I've never seen that before.
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Thinking about you today and just wanting to send encouragement. Also, like I said, apply for any benefits you qualify for. This is what they are for.
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I've tried temp agencies in several states the big guys Officeteam/Roberthalf/Accountemps have told me i'm not qualified enough/no enough previous experience to work with any of their clients, I've been told this by their offices is different states. The smaller temp agencies, I've registered on their website and gone and talked to them and I've been told there has to be an open position that i'm qualified for and then they will place me in a job. So far every opening I apply for they tell me i'm not qualified enough or I don't hear back and I never get placed. I have been trying. So "So, I think something is not right here.." I don't know what to tell you, I've been trying to get work through them and so far its not working.
"Have you tried networking with alums in the area? I'm not sure where you went to school, but it might be worth a try to contact your alumni association to find people in the area. " Yes, I went to a very small private college (a mistake imo) and there is not much they can do to help or network. The community college I went to before that was larger and there's not really anything they can do to help ether because that schools in a very rural area in a small town in midwest farm country. Both colleges were in the midwest in a rural area. They don't have the connections of a large university (A mistake in my part when choosing schools, but thats just how it panned out when I was picking schools to go to college at). I also am currently living in the Southwest, no where near the areas where I went to school.
"What about TaskRabbit" I did sign up to that but until recently they haven't been in my area. I got an email yesterday in fact that they are now in Phoenix. I was on the website yesterday but didn't see any local jobs yet. I assume that will take a while before people start using it. I haven't tried virtual jobs on there yet, as of recently it wouldn't let me sign up because it said they weren't in my area.
Volunteering, I went and talked to Red Cross and several libraries and was told they didn't currently need help at the time and I left my information and they never ended up contacting me and I haven't tried going back after that.
I read a couple of comments on here saying "Something not right you should be working by now, your just leading us on", I am not. I've been trying and have not been able to find work. I am not leading you guys on. I take full responsibility for my situation. I've made mistakes as far as picking schools and job histories.
Somethings I made mistakes with the last 4 years:
-Went to a small community college in a rural area in a midwest state, to finish my undergrad I went to a very small private non-profit college that is pretty much unheard of and has very little connections, all though I feel the education was quality and they had the same accreditation as the big universities, they don't have the connections and or the big name.
-I spent the last 4 years in school going full-time, but working very few jobs. I was a student worker for a year at the community college, but once I got to the 4 year school, the only work I found was a few temp positions that lasted 2-3 months each and the rest of the time I was unemployed, but going to school.
-I never did an internship. I kept getting rejected for them. I applied and applied and couldn't get in. My college couldn't do anything to help with that, they told me to keep applying. I never got in one.
-The economy is still really bad.
When I was going to college at first I was picky about the places/hours/wage that I was willing to work. That was a mistake, as I did get job offers but turned them down because I didn't like the wage or hours. This was when my resume still had recent work experience. I was an idiot, I should have kept working to keep my history of constantly working, on my resume. About the halfway point of finishing my degree I started applying for anything and everything and started getting rejected for everything. I ended up getting a few temp positions that didn't last and the work was horrible. One assignment was cold calling people to sell cruises, my sales record on that assignment was bad. I had other equally short lived temp positions. And most recently zero job offers and once I graduated I've been getting less interviews then before I graduated. Applying to higher "college grads wanted apply now" jobs, have resulted in them telling me If I got an interview that I didn't have the previous work experience they wanted and they were not interested.
So an employer see's my resume and they see I've been in school the last 4 years moving around the country, one year of working as a student worker, then the rest of the time long bouts of no employment and a few temp positions (Call center cold call sales) that I was only able stay at for a few months. So my job gaps I imagine look bad (my college has told me this so has the state unemployment places), but I can't get a job anywhere to build up a year or longer at some place to build stability. I am not getting the chance.
I keep getting told two things when they actually give me a reason:
1. We don't think you'll stay because you have a college degree and we think you'll leave as soon as a better opportunity comes around.
2. You don't have enough experience for this position/enough related experience.
The rest of the time I get the "We decided to go with more qualified candidates." or no response.
If I leave my college degree off, it looks like I spent the last 4 years working only a few temp jobs and then sitting around doing nothing. I still don't hear anything back from that. All though one place told me I had been out of work to long for them to consider hiring me (this was a retail store).
As far as the theory on here that maybe I look/talk strange, have a bad body odor or bad breath or look like a freak, that is not the case. I talk fine, I have clean cut hair, no tattoos, I look like a normal person for my age and look like a clean cut white guy. I've been told I interview well, i'm personable and seem like a nice guy but my job history /education is an issue combined with a hyper competitive economy, there are more qualified candidates than me.
I really feel at this point a lot of whats going on is the economy and off shoring of jobs. I did make some mistakes as I highlighted above. It really sucks not being able to get hired anywhere. It sucks even more when people tell you you're lazy because you can't find work when you're trying and family members turn their backs to you because your unemployed.
I did write a long explanation on here that most likely no one will read, but if someone's going through the same thing maybe it will help make them feel they aren't alone. Or if someone is planning to go to college maybe they can see what I've done wrong and not repeat it.
I think everyone that has contributed to this thread has had great ideas and I don't think at this point anyone can really add anything that hasn't been said all ready.
The next time I update this I'll update when I have a job and what I did to get it. Its turned into a whining thread "ahhh i don't have a job...", which is stupid and annoying for everyone (sorry).
Fine. Look, all that shit in your history is irrelevant. You're applying for basic low level jobs. None of that matters.
Stop blaming the economy. It does you no good.
If you're not still not telling us something, then it's time to lie on the resume/application. Just come up with a story that you think will reflect a more "normal," history, and stick with it. It doesn't have to be detailed. They are not going to question every aspect of your life in an interview for a $9/hr job. Have a friend review it. Good luck.
Get to the point. This is part of your problem. Stop talking about the economy. Stop talking about your bad choices.
You worked for the family business XXXX for XXX years, but it was shut down/sold/died because of XXX and now you need a job.
Something like that. Good luck.
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Edit:
-Got hired in a perm. position part-time that pays $12 an hour in a warehouse lifting stuff all day(Enough to live with roommates and buy food and have a little bit of money left over, my degree was not a factor.
-Job also offers insurance, tuition assistance, 401k ect
-Is with a major corporation that is worldwide
-I do have a 60 mile commute with a car that gets 15mpg, so I wonder how to solve that problem.
-I got the job by:
-Having good references they could check that could verify my history
-Having a clean background
-Getting lucky
-Switched loans to income based repayment
-I randomly applied to this company and got called in for an interview and got the position. Was told I was lucky and the recruiter saw my information at the right time.
-I wonder how best to spend the money as far as paying off loans vs living expenses.
Update: 12/3/2013
-Job is going great. I enjoy it. The pay is pretty good and I like the company. I am hoping that it lasts. I am working my butt off for them. I am building lots of muscle due to it being a job consisting of mainly lifting things all day.
-Its nice to have an income finally.
-I am still on the look out for that "entry level" college job that "pays well"
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Congratulations!!!!
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Also guys,
I wanted to apologize for being so negative in my posts. At the time it felt like the world was ending for me. I know this forum and MMM's blog is about being positive. Thank you for the support as well.
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Hey Guys,
I finally found some work. I got hired in a perm. Part-time job for $12.00 an hour + includes health insurance/401k/tuition assistance with pay increase as time goes on. I'm pretty happy about that. The job is a manual labor position at a warehouse (It's not Amazon). Based on the hours I think I can expect to earn $18-20K a year before taxes, maybe more with some overtime they said they occasionally give out. I am hoping having a college degree might help me advance faster along with a good attitude and work ethic.
I've also found some safe housing that I've been staying at thats going to work out for a longer time that thought.
This position didn't require a college degree. Also there was pretty much no interview, I got called in, talked to them and filled out some paperwork. Pretty much they said, if you have reliable transportation, can pass the background checks/drug tests and have a good reference you can get the job. The interview consisted of "Why do you want to work here" and "You know this is a very physically intense position with lots of lifting and moving and you're ok with that?" I was told if you got in you got lucky with the recruiter because they get so many applications, its lucky if they see yours. The entire hiring process from filling out the application online to getting hired and starting my first day of work took about 5 weeks.
I got hired and I've all ready started working.
I work 5 days a week, but I am going to try to get a second job. I am still interested in possibly learning some type of construction trade like tile laying or similar like MMM was talking about in his posts. Try to learn something and then create a business. Still trying to figure out how I can approach this.
I am trying to decided what to do with the pay.
Rent and food, $10 cell phone plan, and some shared utilities are taking a bite out of my pay.
1st Priority is to rebuild my Emergency fund, I've completely drained this.
I have no credit card debt. My car is paid for (all though it gets 17 MPG highway and I have 60 mile commute everyday). Student loans are $35K right now, half at 6.8% interest an the other half at 3.5% interest, currently in deferment (All government student loans).
With the standard repayment plan, its $410 for 10 years. With an income based repayment, I think it will be $30 a month, at this current wage and extends the plan 25 years, it will go up as I get increases in pay.
Wouldn't ideally, after getting an emergency fund reestablished I would want to pay off that student loan as quickly as possible?
Congrats. Don't think about a 2nd job yet. Just concentrate on the first job for now and doing the best you can.
Don't worry too much about the car yet either. If you can trade with a family member for a car with better gas mileage that could be a benefit.
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Yeah! I agree with Okashira - Concentrate on getting yourself stable before looking for a second job. If you can put together a string of paychecks, stable housing and a rebuilt emergency fund, then it will be time to stretch yourself.
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That's awesome.
This is the first step towards a bright future.
Keep pushing hard, we're rooting for you.
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This is great news! We've all been rooting for you. So happy things are looking up.
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I am so happy to see that you are having some good luck!
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Hey Guys,
I finally found some work.
Hooray! Congratulations!
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This is really good news. This experience of finding that first job out of college will pay dividends down the road.
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Just want to give you a big cheer! This is setting up a good foundation for you.
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Oh, this makes my day! Congratulations! And there are benefits to doing physical work. I feel like desk work has been bad for my body & health. I know a guy who took a PT 2nd job at a UPS shipping facility partially to stay in shape without a gym! Keeping fingers crossed for your progress, in and outside the workplace. Keep us posted!
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thats so great!!! i'm so glad you found something.
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Congrats! I know it's hard for a lot of people to get started in this economy, and you've had a rougher time of it than most. Here's hoping things look up for you in the future.
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Very glad to hear that you've found work. It's brutal out here, and it's nice to see you starting to hit your stride.
Before worrying about a second job, I'd consider looking for housing closer to work, if feasible. A 60-mile daily commute represents a sizeable drain on your time and income. That said, I know your housing situation has been somewhat unstable and maybe you're happy just have a roof over your head - take this suggestion for what it's worth to you, but that would be my first priority if I were in your situation.
As far as your dollars, I would say you're on the right track by seeking to establish an emergency fund and then crush debt as rapidly as possible, but I'd suggest first maxing your 401k match if it's available.
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Congratulations! I'm so glad to hear this! I think your plan sound solid-I would definitely try to move closer to your work to cut down on that commute.
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Congratulations! Work a few months and get settled in, with perhaps overtime as others take vacations at the holidays. Keep your ears open to hear about housing options near work. And be careful!
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Yay!!! Congratulations on the job! That's awesome!
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Congrats! Get settled down and look forward to your future
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Yay! That's fantastic! Good benefits, too!
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Congratulations! Today was a good day for me, but it just became a great day, upon hearing (reading) about this! I knew you would do it! It's all up from here!
Don't exhaust yourself, though. Focus on being the best you can be at job #1 and showing them you are a solver of, not a creator of, problems.
I have to second all of the sentiments like this. You have a good idea of getting a second job to increase your income, but since the first is physical, you don't want to be tired, which would lead to injury or termination. Or also a drop in the willpower to lead a mustachian life. Also, if you put all of your effort into this job, with the effort you showed in getting a job, I bet if you're not promoted quickly, you'll at the very least get moved to full-time. That would be better than a second job, because there won't be any further commuting.
Either way, sounds like a great company, if they're offering health insurance, 401k and tuition assistance just on a part-time job. Also 12.00/hr is nothing to sneeze at. There's a lot worse paying part-time jobs, with no benefits and physical labor.
Congrats again!
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So very, very happy to hear this. Yay! :)
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Congratulations!
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Well done, and thank you for giving us the happy news!
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YES! This made my day too :)
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You did it! Congratulations.
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Congratulations!
Regarding the 60 mile commute, as long as you can't move closer to work you might be interested in trying some hypermilig techniques. The easiest (and safest) is going slower. You have definitely shown endurance and the ability to cope with hardship, so 30 minutes longer on the road are rather unlikely to kill you. :-)
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Well isn't that great news!
Take care of yourself. Build a bit of an emergency fund and makes some social connections that you can build on. We were all rooting for you, but some real world people who care and are in your corner would be a very good thing to have too.
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I just found this thread tonight, and first off, congratulations on getting a job! I've been stuck in a terrible job before (and I know how hard that is), but I've never been completely unemployed, nor have I ever been close to homeless at all, so I have no idea how extremely difficult that must have been for you.
Something I noticed in a post somewhere, was a mention of suicidal thoughts. Please, to anyone who is reading this, who is experiencing suicidal thoughts, is that help is out there. I've been through some relatively hard times with mental illness, and help is there, and the hardest part, is the first phonecall. Suicide hotlines are there to help ANYONE who calls them. Every human being is worth it, and someone out there wants to talk to you, and help you. So, if anyone out there is reading this, and experiencing suicidal thoughts, or just needs someone to talk to, please call a suicide hotline. They are anonymous, and they want to help you.
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And another thought that I have, to anyone else out there reading this, is about oil and gas work. I'm in Canada, but I spent the last 1.5 years working north of the boarder in oil and gas, in a similar boom-area in Manitoba, and I have some experience. I work 'on the rigs' as a supervisor, and I've got a university degree (which I am using). I've been doing this for 3 years now, and unfortunately, most of the better paying jobs require specialized training (some people come from a technical school of some sort, some have 20 years of experience, have heavy equipment/trades tickets, or some are lucky enough to have a parent/family connection to get them in).
As for entry-level positions, they are there, but most of the positions will go to people who already know someone working on their rig/plant, unfortunately. There are really good paying jobs for sure, but please don't move there without a place to live in the winter! Housing is at a premium, and some of the hotels won't even have a room you can rent. Jobs are there, but they aren't just 'throwing money at anyone with a pulse' despite the public perception. Many people have just up and driven to the boom-towns (Fort McMurray for example), only to find they are sleeping in their vehicles, or completely homeless, and no one will hire them.
If anyone wants to send me a PM, I should get an alert in my e-mail, and I'll try to answer, but I just don't want to post too much more publicly, since I'm on my work computer at the moment, and I don't seem to get on here nearly as often any more.
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Update: 12/3/2013
-Job is going great. I enjoy it. The pay is pretty good and I like the company. I am hoping that it lasts. I am working my butt off for them. I am building lots of muscle due to it being a job consisting of mainly lifting things all day.
-Its nice to have an income finally.
-I am still on the look out for that "entry level" college job that "pays well"
Awesome!!! I hope you will keep updating this thread!!
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Hi there iwanttobelive, just was thinking about you and hoping your situation continues to go well. Don't forget to check in with us every so often!
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Hello everyone,
It's iwanttobelive, I don't remember my password for the original nickname. I've been continuing to follow MMM's blog since this original post and I've been undecided about if I should post an update or not. I request that this please not be reposted anywhere or picked up by any news stations if someone stumbles upon this. I don't know that anyone will see this update.
So its been about 5 years. I just wanted to post on here that I am doing well now.
Long story short, graduated college in 2013 after starting in 2009 because of the financial/housing crisis, moved back in with my parents as I was unemployed at graduation. I was 28 at the time, Spent several months unable to find a job anywhere. Got into an argument about being to old to be living at home and being unemployed, they told me to move out the next morning.
Ultimately I ended up driving to the other side of the United States and spent several months living in extended stay motels and sleeping in my car a few times, all while trying to find work. After several months I was out of all of my money, my credit card was maxed out, my car had broken down and I was still unemployed.
I ended up becoming extremely lucky in that both of my parents ended up helping me get back on my feet at that point and one of them ended up letting me move back in. Several months later I ended up landing a job during Christmas seasonal hiring loading and unloading semi-trucks at a warehouse and I was able to work enough overtime and get an apartment and get hired on permanently part-time. I don't think I posted all the correct details at the end as I had an issue with someone mining facebook and other social media and calling a family friend and told them I was kidnapped in mexico and that I needed money wired out while I was gone, as I wasn't on speaking terms with my parent when I left they thought it might be real. I ended up delete-ling a bulk of the messages on here when I found out about that, thinking possibly this contributed to that. They knew it was fake because of how the person talked at the time and they were able to figure out I was still in the United States because I was still in contact with my siblings. At the very end of my postings I wasn't posting 100% accurate information because of this. I had my parents to thank for helping me get back on my feet.
My parent and I ended up reconciling our relationship. To this day I've got a very good relationship with both of my parents. In the end my parent told me that they made a mistake kicking me over that stupid argument and have apologized. I have realized I have made career and money mistakes in that past that led me to this situation, the 2008 housing crisis didn't help.
I can say that even though this even happened, I know I am extremely lucky to have parents who stepped in and helped me out in the end.
I'm currently working full-time for a very good company. I don't make that much money, but I make enough to afford a basic studio apartment, food, some entertainment and my car.
The college I got my BS degree ended up shutting down a year later, it was a private non-profit college. I still owe my full student loan balance plus the interest but I'm able to manage it with IBR.
In retrospect I wish I wouldn't have gone to college, even though it provided me with housing during the bulk of the "Great Recession". Or, I wish I would have gone to a State University and studied Computer Science. I'm trying to learn python and quite enjoy it, all though I don't know if I'll ever land a job programming.
I wish I would have know all of the wisdom of the whole early retirement/financial independence movement back when I was 18. I've made some pretty stupid financial moves when I was younger (buying a new expensive car at a young age), not saving enough for a safety fund, not saving for retirement, going to an expensive college for a worthless degree. All the mistakes have led me to where I am today. I guess thats why they say hindsight is 20/20. I have to take full responsibility of where my life is today.
Anyway I wanted to post an update to this, I am doing well and I ended up being extremely lucky that my parents provided the assistance that they have.
Thank you for the advice at the time it was happening.
I wanted to rejoin this forum for the wealth of advice. I thought I would post an update to this.
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That is a great update! Thanks for coming here to post it!
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I've thought of you from time to time and wondered how this story turned out! Glad you're back and hope you'll continue to thrive. Maybe rejoining the MMM community will help you to knock out that student debt!
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Congrats! Keep up the hard work and don't forget these lessons! It's never too late to start, so don't worry about not knowing this info earlier. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second best time is today.
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Welcome back!
I'm glad you have reconciled with your parents and sorry to read about the attempted facebook fraud. Glad they were smart enough to see right through that sham!
Good luck with everything.
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Congratulations on a hard-fought battle! You might experience the temptation to relax for a few years now that things have stabilized.
Don't.
In my case, I also graduated with a worthless degree and started my post-collegiate making $9/hour as a temp (and struggling to keep that from dipping to $8). I've loaded my share of trucks too. After seven years of struggling, I said fuck this and applied to a surprisingly affordable 2-year MBA evening program at the state college. This was convenient because it happened to occur during the great recession, and I was diverting what would have otherwise been stock investment money to pay for education. In hindsight, the ROI on education was astronomical. Six months BEFORE graduation, I was employed making 50% more than before. I graduated debt-free in 2010, having upgraded a worthless B.S. to a graduate degree. Four years later, I was earning 100% more working 37 hours per week. I continue to accumulate credentials in my sub-field and my chronic underemployment is in full remission - recruiters are calling me.
TL;DR - use the current stability / low unemployment economy as a time to lock in some educational gains or promotions that will protect you in the next recession. If in hindsight, you should have studied computers at the State U. then why not start tomorrow? Or why not try freecodecamp.com?
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Glad to hear you're doing so much better and stable. Thanks for the update!
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I'm completely overwhelmed by the support provided to you by the MMM community.
You are not alone, obviously.
Congratulations on finding work. Avoid bars/nightclubs. Don't even think about getting married and starting a family until you have cleared your debts and have 50-100k in your jeans.
Also, keep in mind that in the 21st Century, remaining single and child free is a viable and much more affordable lifestyle choice.
Continue reading, and re-reading MMM's blogs.
Finally, l would not recommend teaching english, etc. overseas. There are just too many possible pitfalls. Cheap alcohol, other drugs, beautiful(but ultimately very expensive) gals, expat con-artists, bad real estate deals, etc.
Good luck, and remember: "Don't buy it!"
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I would fill out job applications to be a server at restaurants. Corporate restaurants will have more steady business. If your family is not helping you out with housing, I would expand my search to other places in the country. I would consider buying a van and living in the van instead of paying for the flea bag motel.
Once you have income for 3-6 months, I would then go back to putting energy into applications for real jobs.
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I would fill out job applications to be a server at restaurants. Corporate restaurants will have more steady business. If your family is not helping you out with housing, I would expand my search to other places in the country. I would consider buying a van and living in the van instead of paying for the flea bag motel.
Once you have income for 3-6 months, I would then go back to putting energy into applications for real jobs.
This is a very old thread and OP just recently updated that they are now doing well!
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Congratulations! It's great to hear a success story. Just wanted to note that people who graduated around 2013 and those years just after the recession maybe did have a harder time getting a job than normal. I was surprised at the forum posters back in 2013 suggesting something could be wrong with you. I had a very similar experience as a 2013 graduate and it was flipping hard not to feel discouraged and worthless in the six months it took me as a bright young engineer to find a job. I had relevant internships under my belt and everything. I managed to even get turned down by an ice cream shop in my hometown because I didn't have prior scooping experience. No joke. I applied everywhere, temp agencies, retailers like Target, etc. I was extremely lucky that my family and boyfriend at the time (now awesome husband) helped me survive, and I lived on my savings from working through college. When I eventually got a job, it's because I literally cold called down a list of a couple hundred small businesses in my field until finally I got one to give me an interview and landed the job. It was a scary time for new grads, as every entry level job was being filled by people who had lost their jobs in the recession and had work experience to give them an edge. I don't mean this to come across as whiny, I worked my butt off and I'm doing well now too. I just wanted to provide some perspective that the OP is so not alone in this story.
TLDR: OP, your story really resonated with me. Congrats on making it out of unemployment hell and I wish you all the best. Thanks for updating the forum on your success!
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E.T. nailed it. You have to hustle, work your butt off, believe in yourself, and don't give up.
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Edit: Congrats OP. I misread the dates on it, but seems like it worked out. I graduated in 2014 and wasn't in a dire situation but did move to a different state where I crashed with my mom for a few months. I took a call center job and applied to jobs like crazy. In the end, I was networked into where I currently work. So far, not a high earner but living decently.
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I don't want to be difficult, but I find it hard to believe that... McDonald's won't hire you unless there's something you're leaving out. It's hideous work but it's work and you need to keep being able to pay the fleabag motel bill.
I have been told, to my face, in job interviews at a game store, "Your qualifications make it obvious that your just in here to tide over the summer, and when the teaching contracts come out in August you'll be gone." I can imagine a McDonald's using the same logic.
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I don't want to be difficult, but I find it hard to believe that... McDonald's won't hire you unless there's something you're leaving out. It's hideous work but it's work and you need to keep being able to pay the fleabag motel bill.
I have been told, to my face, in job interviews at a game store, "Your qualifications make it obvious that your just in here to tide over the summer, and when the teaching contracts come out in August you'll be gone." I can imagine a McDonald's using the same logic.
I wonder if such employers ever back-test their prediction model. Why would a person's best option today not also be their best option six months from now? Does one become more employable as one spends more time underemployed?
Second, is it really a good hiring policy to only hire people who one perceives to have already reached their maximum potential at a relatively low level? That's like the employer saying "we strive to hire only the best mediocre employees!" Even if they stick around 10 years, you've built a company around people who, in the employer's theory, are already "maxed out" and unable to take on additional responsibility. Perhaps the managers are protecting their own jobs from internal competition?
Here's an alternative option: If the learning curve isn't too steep, hire ambitious people you know will move on. Promise them a glowing letter of recommendation if they kick ass at your company. Do a lot of hiring, yes, but get growth potential in return. Mentor your own potential future replacements so you can move up in the organization or expand the business.
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I don't want to be difficult, but I find it hard to believe that... McDonald's won't hire you unless there's something you're leaving out. It's hideous work but it's work and you need to keep being able to pay the fleabag motel bill.
I have been told, to my face, in job interviews at a game store, "Your qualifications make it obvious that your just in here to tide over the summer, and when the teaching contracts come out in August you'll be gone." I can imagine a McDonald's using the same logic.
I wonder if such employers ever back-test their prediction model. Why would a person's best option today not also be their best option six months from now? Does one become more employable as one spends more time underemployed?
Second, is it really a good hiring policy to only hire people who one perceives to have already reached their maximum potential at a relatively low level? That's like the employer saying "we strive to hire only the best mediocre employees!" Even if they stick around 10 years, you've built a company around people who, in the employer's theory, are already "maxed out" and unable to take on additional responsibility. Perhaps the managers are protecting their own jobs from internal competition?
Here's an alternative option: If the learning curve isn't too steep, hire ambitious people you know will move on. Promise them a glowing letter of recommendation if they kick ass at your company. Do a lot of hiring, yes, but get growth potential in return. Mentor your own potential future replacements so you can move up in the organization or expand the business.
Consider that the person doing the hiring is working at the McJob as well.
They probably don't feel great about watching a stream of people with better prospects come in, work for 4 months, and then leave for somewhere nicer while they stay at the McJob.
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I don't want to be difficult, but I find it hard to believe that... McDonald's won't hire you unless there's something you're leaving out. It's hideous work but it's work and you need to keep being able to pay the fleabag motel bill.
I have been told, to my face, in job interviews at a game store, "Your qualifications make it obvious that your just in here to tide over the summer, and when the teaching contracts come out in August you'll be gone." I can imagine a McDonald's using the same logic.
I wonder if such employers ever back-test their prediction model. Why would a person's best option today not also be their best option six months from now? Does one become more employable as one spends more time underemployed?
Second, is it really a good hiring policy to only hire people who one perceives to have already reached their maximum potential at a relatively low level? That's like the employer saying "we strive to hire only the best mediocre employees!" Even if they stick around 10 years, you've built a company around people who, in the employer's theory, are already "maxed out" and unable to take on additional responsibility. Perhaps the managers are protecting their own jobs from internal competition?
Here's an alternative option: If the learning curve isn't too steep, hire ambitious people you know will move on. Promise them a glowing letter of recommendation if they kick ass at your company. Do a lot of hiring, yes, but get growth potential in return. Mentor your own potential future replacements so you can move up in the organization or expand the business.
Consider that the person doing the hiring is working at the McJob as well.
They probably don't feel great about watching a stream of people with better prospects come in, work for 4 months, and then leave for somewhere nicer while they stay at the McJob.
...and maybe their vision of success involves assembling a team of serfs to permanently labor for their benefit. If it comes to managing such a person's emotions, one might have to leave some credentials off the application.