Good time to buy a used Chevy Bolt?

[Greystache]

I've been wanting to buy an electric car, but one of the concerns I have is battery degradation over time since I tend to hold onto my cars for more than 10 years. Chevy has announced a recall to replace defective battery packs on all Bolts fro 2017 to present. Do you think it makes sense to get a high mileage 2017 Bolt with the knowledge that I can get a new battery pack in the future? Or am I just rationalizing buying a defective product? Would I be better off just getting a reliable electric car without the prospect of a free replacement battery pack? There is also the small, but not zero possibility that a Bolt will burst into flames before the battery is replaced :)

[RWD]

Battery degradation has been shown to basically be a non-issue with EVs that have proper battery thermal management (basically everything but the original LEAF).
https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
https://www.myev.com/research/ev-101/how-long-should-an-electric-cars-battery-last
https://electrek.co/2021/08/12/tesla-claims-battery-packs-lose-only-capacity-200000-miles/

As far as the Bolt goes the bursting into flames thing is definitely more of a concern for me than some battery degradation. Presumably that issue will be sorted eventually as well. Just a matter of whether the current used prices are offering enough of a discount to consider.

[Paper Chaser]

I know that fires are scary, especially lithium fires, but the chances of your Bolt going up in flames are really low:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/gm-s-2-billion-chevy-bolt-fire-recall-casts-shadow-n1277460

They've sold about 143k Bolts. They're recalling all of them because 7 have caught fire. That's 0.006%.

212k ICE vehicles caught fire on American roads in 2018, which is about 0.07%.

[Greystache]

Thanks for the information. I may have been weighting battery life too much in my selection criteria.

[ChpBstrd]

I haven't researched prices, but this really could be one of those deals like the old Pontiac Vibe, which could be had for less money used than its mechanically identical sibling, the Toyota Matrix, simply because of the brand reputation. People didn't do their homework and realize they were built in the same factory. A certain number of people will panic sell because of this recall.

That said, GM cars have been known to have electrical problems for at least the last 3 decades. In a GM vehicle, all sorts of things from power window switches to engine sensors will go kaput during your term of ownership. This reputation, and the observation that fixing such weaknesses seems not to be a priority in any way, leads me to be reluctant about GM vehicles in general, but especially EVs.

[yachi]

I know that fires are scary, especially lithium fires, but the chances of your Bolt going up in flames are really low:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/gm-s-2-billion-chevy-bolt-fire-recall-casts-shadow-n1277460

They've sold about 143k Bolts. They're recalling all of them because 7 have caught fire. That's 0.006%.

212k ICE vehicles caught fire on American roads in 2018, which is about 0.07%.

Those numbers are more comparable than they seem at first:

In 2017, only about 7.5% of highway vehicle fires were attributed to mechanical or electrical failure in vehicles less than 4 years old.  Applying this correction to the 2018 total brings the percentage of ICE cars less than 4 years old that caught to fire from non-collision reasons to 0.00525%.  That's comparable, and not the "bolts are catching fire 10X less frequently than ICE cars" that it seems at first.

Why the lead auto analyst quoted by NBC didn't correct for the age of cars and cause of fire, I don't know.  The average car on an American highway is 12 years old.


Edit: Actually this whole NFPA document on vehicle fires is pretty fascinating: https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-statistics-and-reports/US-Fire-Problem/osvehiclefires.pdf  there's a graph on page 7 that shows a model year comparison and cause of fire of either 'Collision' or essentially 'mechanical/electrical failure'.

Should we be willing to accept spontaneous combustion while it's charging in exchange for a lower propensity to catch fire from collision, even of the overall combustion rate stays low?

[PDXTabs]

I think that the difference is that Bolts have been catching on fire while charging, potentially in your garage while you are asleep. That's very different than an ICE which tends to catch on fire during operation.

Chevy is telling people:
1. Not to let their battery discharge
2. Not to let their battery fully charge
3. Not to park the car in your garage immediately after charging
4. Not to charge overnight

Those are some pretty inconvenient limitations for your $25K EV.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/chevrolet-bolt-recalled-again-due-to-fire-concerns-a3566085147/

[AccidentialMustache]

Two things had me thinking the bolt wasn't going to meet our needs, but we hadn't dismissed it completely (planned to go look at / test drive one 90 minutes away that was a good price).

One was they're slow to charge -- the pull 50kw max, where a lot of the other/newer EVs are pulling 100kw+. More power = shorter charge time on road trips. Of course, smaller/lighter bolt is higher miles/kwh, so that helps some.

Two, we didn't like the cabin. The center arm rest was way too high and uncomfortable. I had to tuck my arm in against my side if I'm semi-casually holding the bottom of the wheel. The EV is getting used by both DW and I, so we'd constantly be resetting seat position (manual, with height, so slow to adjust) and mirrors.

If you are serious about one, make sure it'll fit your use case outside of the fire issue. We couldn't get it to. The fire issue was just the last straw about, "no it isn't worth trying to make it work."

I personally think the fire thing is way overblown, but I have easy at-home charging and we don't drive much, so our usual charge would be 75->80% which seems safe as all(?) the fires have been after a big charge (20->80). If we did road trip it, I'd just charge 20->35%, then 30->45% the next day, ... until back to 80 then resume "normal" pattern.

[PDXTabs]

Today I noticed that GM Tells Bolt Owners to Park 50 Feet Away From Other Cars.

[Tester]

I almost bought a Bolt in June.
I just did not like the steering wheel so I ended up with an used golf GTI.
It seems the unmustachian decision was right this time :-).
I am sad to see the Bolt it having these problems, I loved the fact that it is a hatchback and loved the price tag.
Now  it seems Tesla will get a hatchback out which might mean less competition in the market.

I am still enjoying the fact that more companies are getring into the cleaner transportation solutions, competition should bring us better solutions.

And I can only hope the nuclear energy part takes off so we can call it an era on the petrol.

Disclaimer: I would still go for a track day in petrol cars, I hope those will still exist.

[gooki]

Because there's a factory recall, dealers can't sell and new or traded in bolts, so that removes a lot of the supply from the market. So if you're dead kenos one, your best bet is to find someone who's taking the recall seriously and is desperate to get rid of theirs.

[GodlessCommie]

Looking at Carvana as a convenient proxy for used car prices, 2017 Bolts go for ~20K. Doesn't look like a big enough discount to me.

I do not even so much worry about fire itself, I just resent the need to babysit the damn thing. Plenty enough stuff to occupy my mental space to add yet another one.

[RWD]

https://electrek.co/2021/09/20/gm-says-chevy-bolt-ev-battery-production-has-resumed-defect-leading-fire-risk-fixed/