Author Topic: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?  (Read 1183 times)

boyerbt

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Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« on: July 10, 2019, 09:50:00 AM »
Roughly a month ago I gave my notice of resignation at work with the intention of an extended work period to help the transition during the hiring process through August 15th. After leaving, my wife and I will be traveling the world (Europe, Africa, SE Asia, and Australia) for 7-9 months before going back to the “real world”. When I gave the notice to the CEO, I was informed that we had started the process of selling our company of which I own a small percentage through RSAs. He asked me if my departure date was set in stone as the process would most likely not finalize by my current departure time and I would be forfeiting a large amount of money (≈$100,000) if I left before the deal is complete. I was aware of the money that I was leaving on the table as I was preparing to give my notice but was ultimately okay with this as we are in a good place financially and had no previous information that the company had started the process of selling. Our CEO told me yesterday that we have two competing companies that are very interested in purchasing the business. However, when asked about the timing, he said that there is a 70% chance that either company will go through with the entire process and that if so, the purchase wouldn’t be completed until the end of September or mid-October. Because we were unaware of this, we have already sold our house and will have to be out by August 1st so this puts us in a bit of a predicament due to the increased cost in short-term living expenses while also eating away at our travel time. We have certain areas that we want to travel to at specific times of the year so we cannot continue to work

What does everyone think? How long would you be willing to stay? I’d also like to hear if anyone has been through this before but I do understand that each sale is completely different. I am concerned that we will be stuck waiting if the process is delayed for any number of reasons for one to several weeks at a time and thus eating away at our total travel time. I keep thinking that we will get caught in “what’s one more week?” scenarios and before we know it, it will already be 2020.

Villanelle

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2019, 09:57:54 AM »
Hard to say without knowing the details of your finances (lean FIRE, fat FIRE, somewhere in between? Planned withdraw rate?  Health insurance? Etc.).

When do you have to give a firm answer?  Do you think the sale will be fairly secure (or likely dead) by that point?  it would be hard for me to give up six figures for an additional month or two of work, and you can always get a cheap airbnb locally for that time.  And you mention specific areas at specific times; would staying through mid-October cause you to miss something specific and that you can't do later?

I'd likely hedge my bets for as long as possible and then when the drop-dead date for a decision came, if the sale still looked likely, I'd bit the bullet and stay through October but if the sale fell through, that would be it for me. So I'd have a hard deadline. 

One more thing... would a nice boss be willing to grant you some sort of remote work so you could perhaps commit to staying through mid-September if he promises to keep you on remotely (so you could start your travel) until the completion of the sale (or the end of 2019, perhaps; whichever is later)?  It sounds like he really wants you to stay so you could negotiate to see if you can give a little (staying another month) if he gives (keeping you on remotely for 1-3 months).

Syonyk

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2019, 10:00:37 AM »
Quote
I was aware of the money that I was leaving on the table as I was preparing to give my notice but was ultimately okay with this as we are in a good place financially...

Then you've answered your question.

I would definitely not delay travel plans for a sale that may or may not happen, under some terms that may or may not be what's currently expected.

"End of September or mid-October" is highly likely to slip to November, December... etc.

Quote
We have certain areas that we want to travel to at specific times of the year so we cannot continue to work

You know the right answer, you've decided it for yourself, and you're second guessing for what would be a nice chunk of change, but if you're walking away from a job to go travel the world for most of a year, you presumably don't need that money, weren't counting on it, and have your plans worked out assuming it wouldn't show up.  I don't get the impression you're fresh out of college and traveling the world on a "Well, this sounds interesting..." sort of thing.

Go travel.  There will be other opportunities to make money.

Rdy2Fire

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2019, 10:06:37 AM »
Why do you need to resign?

If your CEO is ok with you leaving but is suggesting you stay in order to not leave the money on the table then why not ask for an unpaid leave which means you would still maintain your position in the company and still be entitled to the pay out. Or maybe maintaining your position on a limited PT basis while you travel just in order to keep you on the books. Those are just some thoughts but I am sure, if he's looking out for your best interest, there are other ways you could maintain your position while not being there.


erutio

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2019, 10:28:33 AM »
Do you feel the reason you posted was to ask for 'forum' permission to stay at work a bit longer, or permission to leave work as planned?

By your wording, sounds like the former.  You already have a lot of inertia taking you towards resignation (gave notice, solid travel plans, sold
the house(!), financial security).  I'd say go for it, BREAK THE HANDCUFFS AND BE FREE! 


honeybbq

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2019, 10:35:42 AM »
How much time is 100k worth to you?

Personally, if it's less than 6 months or something, I'd do it. If it would be a year or more... no.

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2019, 11:10:03 AM »
Hard to say without knowing the details of your finances (lean FIRE, fat FIRE, somewhere in between? Planned withdraw rate?  Health insurance? Etc.).

When do you have to give a firm answer?  Do you think the sale will be fairly secure (or likely dead) by that point?  it would be hard for me to give up six figures for an additional month or two of work, and you can always get a cheap airbnb locally for that time.  And you mention specific areas at specific times; would staying through mid-October cause you to miss something specific and that you can't do later?

I'd likely hedge my bets for as long as possible and then when the drop-dead date for a decision came, if the sale still looked likely, I'd bit the bullet and stay through October but if the sale fell through, that would be it for me. So I'd have a hard deadline. 

One more thing... would a nice boss be willing to grant you some sort of remote work so you could perhaps commit to staying through mid-September if he promises to keep you on remotely (so you could start your travel) until the completion of the sale (or the end of 2019, perhaps; whichever is later)?  It sounds like he really wants you to stay so you could negotiate to see if you can give a little (staying another month) if he gives (keeping you on remotely for 1-3 months).

- We are currently in the accumulation stages but plan to FIRE when I hit 55 in 23 years. We (me-32, DW-26) have $185k in retirement accounts. We will be receiving roughly $50k from the sale of the house once it is finalized and have enough money saved to have 6-12 months of expenses once we return even though I will be working for my father once we come back from the trip.
- There is no firm date on their end for me to provide a date. Multiple members of the company have spoken with me about my shares after giving my notice so that I am fully aware of the situation and they are open to me staying as long as necessary.
- We are searching on airBNB and the like but our area of Ohio doesn't really have a lot in the way of these rentals so we haven't found any options yet for an extended rental.
- Timing of events, yes, these are specific locations and events that we would not be able to do unless we extend our travels or delay them until this time next year which isn't feasible.

- For hedging - this is where I continue to have issues. I feel as though I/we would be stuck if we get all the way through October and are told that the deal is only two weeks away. Then rather/rinse/repeat and it continues is a possibility.

- Remoting - I posed this question to our majority shareholders (PE guys) and they were firmly against it stating that it is unfair to the other shareholders which I agree. Our trip is purely for pleasure and I don't want to give any notion that I would be working remotely.

- Caveat - one thing that I haven't addressed yet as I just found out while reviewing the employee handbook is that we have an extended leave policy that allows an employee to leave for unpaid leave for up to six weeks. I do not believe that this will work as I have given my notice and they understand that I have no intention to return but thought that it will be something to discuss. The CEO said that more information would be available by the end of this week to early next and he will provide me more clarity on timing so I thought then would be a good time to address this.

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2019, 11:13:52 AM »

Then you've answered your question.

I would definitely not delay travel plans for a sale that may or may not happen, under some terms that may or may not be what's currently expected.

"End of September or mid-October" is highly likely to slip to November, December... etc.

You know the right answer, you've decided it for yourself, and you're second guessing for what would be a nice chunk of change, but if you're walking away from a job to go travel the world for most of a year, you presumably don't need that money, weren't counting on it, and have your plans worked out assuming it wouldn't show up.  I don't get the impression you're fresh out of college and traveling the world on a "Well, this sounds interesting..." sort of thing.

Go travel.  There will be other opportunities to make money.

Yes, I agree 100% with what you're saying. Had we of know that the company was looking to sell we would have delayed selling our house and this would have helped more in some respect. I have come to terms (about 99%) with all of this but my Wife doesn't want to walk away from the money so quickly.

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2019, 11:14:55 AM »
Why do you need to resign?

If your CEO is ok with you leaving but is suggesting you stay in order to not leave the money on the table then why not ask for an unpaid leave which means you would still maintain your position in the company and still be entitled to the pay out. Or maybe maintaining your position on a limited PT basis while you travel just in order to keep you on the books. Those are just some thoughts but I am sure, if he's looking out for your best interest, there are other ways you could maintain your position while not being there.

I did ask this but was told that it is an "all or none scenario".

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2019, 11:17:04 AM »
Do you feel the reason you posted was to ask for 'forum' permission to stay at work a bit longer, or permission to leave work as planned?

By your wording, sounds like the former.  You already have a lot of inertia taking you towards resignation (gave notice, solid travel plans, sold
the house(!), financial security).  I'd say go for it, BREAK THE HANDCUFFS AND BE FREE!

I actually feel it is more of the latter, or at least that way for my wife. I was hoping that someone else in the group has gone through something similar and could give advice.

partdopy

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2019, 11:20:04 AM »
I don't think the scenario nor the amount qualifies as 'golden handcuffs', if you're really financially ready to retire with a lifestyle that affords traveling the world for 9 months that sum shouldn't be nearly enough to make you stay, especially with an unknown time frame dependent upon chance.

Golden handcuffs would imply that you only get a generous pension if you stay until X time, or that you get a large bonus for staying X time.

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2019, 11:24:03 AM »
How much time is 100k worth to you? Personally, if it's less than 6 months or something, I'd do it. If it would be a year or more... no.

The problem is that I don't see it as a 100k question. This money was and is earmarked for FatFIRE retirement funding as we have always calculated our financial retirement needs without these funds. So when I review the calculations now at what it will be worth in 23 years for both scenarios it ends up being a difference of $640k when keeping everything else constant.

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2019, 11:33:26 AM »
I don't think the scenario nor the amount qualifies as 'golden handcuffs', if you're really financially ready to retire with a lifestyle that affords traveling the world for 9 months that sum shouldn't be nearly enough to make you stay, especially with an unknown time frame dependent upon chance.

Golden handcuffs would imply that you only get a generous pension if you stay until X time, or that you get a large bonus for staying X time.

I feel that you're making some false assumptions about me as well as the overall definition which I've copied below. We are not yet ready to retire and will be joining the workforce again once we return. Traveling the world does not need to be overly expensive unless you let it be as the link shows.https://alittleadrift.com/rtw-budget-travel-around-the-world/ Our plan for the trip is $30k for the duration which includes all travel and insurance while traveling. So if you consider that we can potentially be giving up three years worth of this type of travel it has us on the fence a bit.

- common definition: Golden handcuffs, a phrase first recorded in 1976, refers to financial allurements and benefits that have the objective to encourage highly compensated employees to remain within a company or organization


JGS1980

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2019, 11:43:49 AM »
This early in the accumulation stage, I believe it would be foolhardy to resign.

As per your calculations above, this will be worth >600K by the time you retire.  It's silly NOT to hang on for 3-6 months (and even up to a year) until the deal closes.

You can always take a shorter trip (only 6 months instead of 9) and do MOST of the things you wanted to do. Alternatively, you could still do the same trip and just get back to work a few months later.

Think about all the things we do that are Mustachian to save a couple grand every year, and you are willing to give up the amount above?

JGS

P.S. -I agree with the other poster you said if you were ready to fully FIRE, this would not hold me up at all.

erutio

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2019, 11:51:16 AM »
Oh, I thought you were retiring. 
Instead, you are in your (early) accumulation phase and taking a sabbatical.  I would now change my advice to staying the 3-5 months.  You can and should still go through with your travels plans, just either make it a little shorter or shift it later by a few months.

Villanelle

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2019, 11:52:41 AM »
I initially didn't understand that this would be your forever retirement.  In that case, I'd have to weigh the particular events you'd me missing, but it would be really tough to turn down a $100k infusion of cash fairly early in the accumulation phase. 

Also, if you are intending to return to work, is there some reason you wouldn't do that with this company?  If so, why not do the extended leave, with your return in a year?  The sale might complicate that, but perhaps not.  It sounds like you are a respected and valued employee (or no one would be trying to help you maximize this situation) so having you back in about a year might be better than nothing. 

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2019, 11:57:26 AM »
I initially didn't understand that this would be your forever retirement.  In that case, I'd have to weigh the particular events you'd me missing, but it would be really tough to turn down a $100k infusion of cash fairly early in the accumulation phase. 

Also, if you are intending to return to work, is there some reason you wouldn't do that with this company?  If so, why not do the extended leave, with your return in a year?  The sale might complicate that, but perhaps not.  It sounds like you are a respected and valued employee (or no one would be trying to help you maximize this situation) so having you back in about a year might be better than nothing.

I am leaving the company and moving away from the area and closer to our families as we're planning to start a family in the next few years. Once returning I will be working with my father as we've discussed this over the last several years as a planned succession for his retirement in the next 5-7 years.

Rdy2Fire

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2019, 12:03:47 PM »
Why do you need to resign?

If your CEO is ok with you leaving but is suggesting you stay in order to not leave the money on the table then why not ask for an unpaid leave which means you would still maintain your position in the company and still be entitled to the pay out. Or maybe maintaining your position on a limited PT basis while you travel just in order to keep you on the books. Those are just some thoughts but I am sure, if he's looking out for your best interest, there are other ways you could maintain your position while not being there.

I did ask this but was told that it is an "all or none scenario".

Well if you are ready to FIRE, are happy with your travel plans and never counted on this moneyI'd stick with the plan.

However, when you go in to see you CEO and let him know, and are prepared to walk away, I'd still have some kind of plan to present him where you stay on in some capacity to "allow you to capitalize on the sale given you've been such valued employee for so long." Maybe he will have a change of heart and if not then you just resign.

I know nothing about your situation at your company outside of what you said but a friend had a similar situation where he was going to leave (not to retire) and his boss was trying to get him to stay. He couldn't understand given the sale but he came to find out that he and some other key people being employed there at the time of the sale was a prerequisite for the buyer.

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2019, 12:07:22 PM »
Why do you need to resign?

If your CEO is ok with you leaving but is suggesting you stay in order to not leave the money on the table then why not ask for an unpaid leave which means you would still maintain your position in the company and still be entitled to the pay out. Or maybe maintaining your position on a limited PT basis while you travel just in order to keep you on the books. Those are just some thoughts but I am sure, if he's looking out for your best interest, there are other ways you could maintain your position while not being there.

I did ask this but was told that it is an "all or none scenario".

Well if you are ready to FIRE, are happy with your travel plans and never counted on this moneyI'd stick with the plan.

However, when you go in to see you CEO and let him know, and are prepared to walk away, I'd still have some kind of plan to present him where you stay on in some capacity to "allow you to capitalize on the sale given you've been such valued employee for so long." Maybe he will have a change of heart and if not then you just resign.

I know nothing about your situation at your company outside of what you said but a friend had a similar situation where he was going to leave (not to retire) and his boss was trying to get him to stay. He couldn't understand given the sale but he came to find out that he and some other key people being employed there at the time of the sale was a prerequisite for the buyer.

I plan to address it again but have already been told that it was in absolute terms that I either need to be an employee physically in the office to retain my shares throughout the sale process or sell my shares back to the company at the time of my resignation. But hey, it never hurts to ask again right?

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2019, 12:13:33 PM »
This early in the accumulation stage, I believe it would be foolhardy to resign.

As per your calculations above, this will be worth >600K by the time you retire.  It's silly NOT to hang on for 3-6 months (and even up to a year) until the deal closes.

You can always take a shorter trip (only 6 months instead of 9) and do MOST of the things you wanted to do. Alternatively, you could still do the same trip and just get back to work a few months later.

Think about all the things we do that are Mustachian to save a couple grand every year, and you are willing to give up the amount above?

JGS

P.S. -I agree with the other poster you said if you were ready to fully FIRE, this would not hold me up at all.

My start date is semi-set as there are some industry changes that will be going into effect and I will need to begin working beforehand so sticking around for an extended period of time would drastically offset our trip or eliminate it entirely.

You are also going off of the premise that the best case scenario happens which is the sale. What if I stick around until the end of the year due to the company being strung along by the future buyers only for the purchase to fall through? I am back where I started but have spent a lot of money living in an area I no longer want to be and working at a job I no longer want to work at all the while being able to travel but not doing it.

Your last sentence surprises me regarding what other Mustachians do to save a few grand and I'm potentially willing to give up the future value equivalent of $600,000+. Isn't this the core concept of FI? Being in a place financially to be able to walk away from things you don't want to do or choose to do something else all the while the overall decision doesn't dramatically change our financial picture?

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2019, 12:26:30 PM »
I'd like to apologize as I feel that I may be coming off harsh with each reply. I created the thread to ask for everyone's opinions and I do appreciate and value you all taking the time to let me know your thoughts.

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2019, 12:34:07 PM »
OP, I think the responses were not as helpful because your first post was easy to interpret as meaning you were getting ready to FIRE. Instead, you are getting ready to take a time-limited sabbatical to travel before relocating and starting a new career. Two very different scenarios.

Since you are time-limited and plan to make more money in the future, I don't see delaying your sabbatical for a sale that maybe-might-could possibly happen sometime. I suspect your boss is dangling that in front of you to keep you around a while longer, not because they're worried about you suffering a financial loss.

Fuzz

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2019, 02:36:02 PM »
Why can't you just postpone the end date of the sabbatical/travels? I don't understand why there is a fixed return date. Since you're in the accumulation stage, it seems like a no-brainer to stick it out for another 2 months. Where else are you going to make 50K a month?

That said, I would imagine that the closing date of any deal would be likely to be pushed out. If they say 2 months, that could mean 4 months or never. Is there meaningful due diligence happening? When they say two weeks, the money may change hands 6 weeks later. Just sayin'

Also, you have more agency in these negotiations than you think. Can you sell your RSUs for 50% of face value to a co-worker or back to the company? Presumably, either the buyer will save or the other owners will keep 100K if you walk. What can you do to bring that savings forward now.

Rdy2Fire

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2019, 02:51:09 PM »
OP, I think the responses were not as helpful because your first post was easy to interpret as meaning you were getting ready to FIRE. Instead, you are getting ready to take a time-limited sabbatical to travel before relocating and starting a new career. Two very different scenarios.

Since you are time-limited and plan to make more money in the future, I don't see delaying your sabbatical for a sale that maybe-might-could possibly happen sometime. I suspect your boss is dangling that in front of you to keep you around a while longer, not because they're worried about you suffering a financial loss.

Similar to my point.. If the deal is happening and the CEO is trying to look out for him then he could allow a leave of absence. However I tend to agree it's just a carrot being dangled

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2019, 05:53:58 PM »
Why can't you just postpone the end date of the sabbatical/travels? I don't understand why there is a fixed return date. Since you're in the accumulation stage, it seems like a no-brainer to stick it out for another 2 months. Where else are you going to make 50K a month?

That said, I would imagine that the closing date of any deal would be likely to be pushed out. If they say 2 months, that could mean 4 months or never. Is there meaningful due diligence happening? When they say two weeks, the money may change hands 6 weeks later. Just sayin'

Also, you have more agency in these negotiations than you think. Can you sell your RSUs for 50% of face value to a co-worker or back to the company? Presumably, either the buyer will save or the other owners will keep 100K if you walk. What can you do to bring that savings forward now.

The semi-fixed end date is due to regulations changing and I need to start before a certain date.

The companies looking to purchase have begun due diligence and we expect to receive updated letters of intent this week with updated values. Our CEO said that a decision on which company, if any, will be chosen this or next week. Following this, the selected company would bring people in for a deeper review.

I will have to double-check the policies on the RSUs but I do not believe that they can be resold nor do I believe that the other employees who currently retain any can afford the purchase price. The RSUs were distributed at an extreme discount.

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2019, 05:57:18 PM »
OP, I think the responses were not as helpful because your first post was easy to interpret as meaning you were getting ready to FIRE. Instead, you are getting ready to take a time-limited sabbatical to travel before relocating and starting a new career. Two very different scenarios.

Since you are time-limited and plan to make more money in the future, I don't see delaying your sabbatical for a sale that maybe-might-could possibly happen sometime. I suspect your boss is dangling that in front of you to keep you around a while longer, not because they're worried about you suffering a financial loss.

Similar to my point.. If the deal is happening and the CEO is trying to look out for him then he could allow a leave of absence. However I tend to agree it's just a carrot being dangled

Again, I will check with the CEO as well as other members of the team when more information is provided on the possibility of an extended absence option. I discussed this initially with the CEO and my Boss at the time of my notice and both seemed that it could be a possibility. However, when discussing with the majority shareholders, outside PE, I was told that this was unequivocally not possible as it would be unfair to the other shareholders. I do not believe that they are aware of the extended leave of absence policy that we have but I don't think it will apply as I have given my notice and have no intention of returning. 

JGS1980

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2019, 06:56:04 PM »
Think about all the things we do that are Mustachian to save a couple grand every year, and you are willing to give up the amount above?

JGS
[/quote]

My start date is semi-set as there are some industry changes that will be going into effect and I will need to begin working beforehand so sticking around for an extended period of time would drastically offset our trip or eliminate it entirely.

You are also going off of the premise that the best case scenario happens which is the sale. What if I stick around until the end of the year due to the company being strung along by the future buyers only for the purchase to fall through? I am back where I started but have spent a lot of money living in an area I no longer want to be and working at a job I no longer want to work at all the while being able to travel but not doing it.

Your last sentence surprises me regarding what other Mustachians do to save a few grand and I'm potentially willing to give up the future value equivalent of $600,000+. Isn't this the core concept of FI? Being in a place financially to be able to walk away from things you don't want to do or choose to do something else all the while the overall decision doesn't dramatically change our financial picture?
[/quote]

Yes, I was considering your best case scenario, like you asked. Life is a gamble, and you were asking if the potential gains of staying outweighed the gains of leaving and traveling.

Yes, being able to "walk away" is, in fact, a core concept of being FI. You, however, are not FI.  You may have some FU money, but this is a different animal altogether.

Is a 9 month once in a lifetime trip while young worth potentially 3 more years of working to achieve FIRE while older? Good luck on your decision and keep us posted!

lhamo

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2019, 07:00:01 PM »
I personally think it is not smart to walk away from that much money at this stage of your FIRE journey, especially since you know you have a job waiting for you when you are done travelling.  Assuming that offer is open-ended, it would be relatively easy to rearrange your travel plans to fit the revised schedule.  You don't necessarily have to do a one way RTW trip -- you could do Asia first, then pop back to see family for awhile, then do another out and back to Europe or Africa.  If you have an extra $100k in the bank a little more on flights isn't going to hurt, though often if you can travel off- or shoulder-season you can get good sale fares they can be cheaper combined than a single RTW would be anyway.

I would give it to near the end of the year.  If you are lucky, the sale will close in early January 2020 and you will take a smaller tax hit since you won't have much other income next year while traveling.

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2019, 07:23:03 PM »

Yes, I was considering your best case scenario, like you asked. Life is a gamble, and you were asking if the potential gains of staying outweighed the gains of leaving and traveling.

Yes, being able to "walk away" is, in fact, a core concept of being FI. You, however, are not FI.  You may have some FU money, but this is a different animal altogether.

Is a 9 month once in a lifetime trip while young worth potentially 3 more years of working to achieve FIRE while older? Good luck on your decision and keep us posted!

- That is somewhat true, I am asking what everyone else would do in this scenario and it seems that nearly everyone is considering a 70% chance of the company selling based on my CEOs opinion is a foregone conclusion. If everyone was in my shoes, how would you feel if the polar opposite scenario happened and you extended the waiting period and the deals falls through? Another sale opportunity won't be occurring for another year so you'll be leaving with the same amount that you would have several (2-4) months sooner but you would have spent an exceeding amount on short term living expenses while you waited and may not take the trip at all now or a very abbreviated one?

- Yes, we definitely have FU money and didn't mean to state that we are FI but that the same principals of FIRE apply to this situation.

- This entire scenario doesn't change our FIRE date as this windfall isn't used in those calculations. It certainly changes our FatFIRE date but that is not how I review the numbers or our plan and that is why I think that I have such a hard time weighing the options. With that info, I would certainly say yes, that nine months for what I consider to be a one a lifetime trip to be worth a lot and that even considers a substantial lump sum when factoring the future value but we are still waiting.

My wife and I were chatting tonight while walking the neighborhood and we obviously won't be making any decisions until we receive additional information and clarity on the timing but will report back when we can.

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2019, 07:26:49 PM »
I personally think it is not smart to walk away from that much money at this stage of your FIRE journey, especially since you know you have a job waiting for you when you are done travelling.  Assuming that offer is open-ended, it would be relatively easy to rearrange your travel plans to fit the revised schedule.  You don't necessarily have to do a one way RTW trip -- you could do Asia first, then pop back to see family for awhile, then do another out and back to Europe or Africa.  If you have an extra $100k in the bank a little more on flights isn't going to hurt, though often if you can travel off- or shoulder-season you can get good sale fares they can be cheaper combined than a single RTW would be anyway.

I would give it to near the end of the year.  If you are lucky, the sale will close in early January 2020 and you will take a smaller tax hit since you won't have much other income next year while traveling.

I have stated this a few times above that the start date is net definitively stated but it is not wide open and I need to begin in May. There are several events that we want to attend overseas during 2019 that we would not be able to in 2020 if we waited until after the new year to go do.

No tax hit regardless due to the structure and timing of the stock so that is moot.

Buffalo Chip

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2019, 07:39:18 PM »

Then you've answered your question.

I would definitely not delay travel plans for a sale that may or may not happen, under some terms that may or may not be what's currently expected.

"End of September or mid-October" is highly likely to slip to November, December... etc.

You know the right answer, you've decided it for yourself, and you're second guessing for what would be a nice chunk of change, but if you're walking away from a job to go travel the world for most of a year, you presumably don't need that money, weren't counting on it, and have your plans worked out assuming it wouldn't show up.  I don't get the impression you're fresh out of college and traveling the world on a "Well, this sounds interesting..." sort of thing.

Go travel.  There will be other opportunities to make money.

Yes, I agree 100% with what you're saying. Had we of know that the company was looking to sell we would have delayed selling our house and this would have helped more in some respect. I have come to terms (about 99%) with all of this but my Wife doesn't want to walk away from the money so quickly.

I agree with your wife. 100k for a few months?  Let’s say that’s 3 extra months. That’s roughly a new car a month.  It’s worth sitting tight. If a few months starts being several, you can bail.

Villanelle

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2019, 08:01:43 PM »
I personally think it is not smart to walk away from that much money at this stage of your FIRE journey, especially since you know you have a job waiting for you when you are done travelling.  Assuming that offer is open-ended, it would be relatively easy to rearrange your travel plans to fit the revised schedule.  You don't necessarily have to do a one way RTW trip -- you could do Asia first, then pop back to see family for awhile, then do another out and back to Europe or Africa.  If you have an extra $100k in the bank a little more on flights isn't going to hurt, though often if you can travel off- or shoulder-season you can get good sale fares they can be cheaper combined than a single RTW would be anyway.

I would give it to near the end of the year.  If you are lucky, the sale will close in early January 2020 and you will take a smaller tax hit since you won't have much other income next year while traveling.

I have stated this a few times above that the start date is net definitively stated but it is not wide open and I need to begin in May. There are several events that we want to attend overseas during 2019 that we would not be able to in 2020 if we waited until after the new year to go do.

No tax hit regardless due to the structure and timing of the stock so that is moot.

Your posts are a bit vague, but if you have to be started by May for regulatory reasons, could you not then take a month of vacation in September to attend these events (assuming they are annual)?  Assuming this all comes to fruition, you could easily afford a second set of plane tickets. 

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2019, 05:21:55 AM »

Your posts are a bit vague, but if you have to be started by May for regulatory reasons, could you not then take a month of vacation in September to attend these events (assuming they are annual)?  Assuming this all comes to fruition, you could easily afford a second set of plane tickets.

I apologize for the vagueness, let me know if there is additional information needed. My future employer will not allow an extended leave of absence in the first year of employment and the different events are spread out over several months in different countries making it difficult to hit all in an abbreviated trip.

Tester

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2019, 08:38:07 AM »
It is ultimately your decision, based on your values.
I started very late to save, at 36 - for me giving up 50% of my current net worth woul be hard.
In the meantime I can also say that I regret not doing some things while I was younger...
If you have another job lined up that's perfect.
If you can also get that 100000 how many years will it delete from future work?

nyfireguy

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2019, 10:23:01 AM »

I plan to address it again but have already been told that it was in absolute terms that I either need to be an employee physically in the office to retain my shares throughout the sale process or sell my shares back to the company at the time of my resignation. But hey, it never hurts to ask again right?

Right.. It never hurts to ask again and I don't recall if you said your age or when you plan to FIRE after the new job but in the last year I've had 4 people that passed away for health reasons (not accidents) age 50-51 and another that has very little time left. It gave me a lot of perspective on the old "YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE" so if the trip is something you want more then the 100K then GO FOR IT!! 

You can always make more money!!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 10:24:39 AM by nyfireguy »

boyerbt

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2019, 10:44:36 AM »

Right.. It never hurts to ask again and I don't recall if you said your age or when you plan to FIRE after the new job but in the last year I've had 4 people that passed away for health reasons (not accidents) age 50-51 and another that has very little time left. It gave me a lot of perspective on the old "YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE" so if the trip is something you want more then the 100K then GO FOR IT!! 

You can always make more money!!

I'm 32 and plan to FIRE at 55. My CEO said that the board is having a call tonight to select one of the two companies to move forward but we still have to wait on a more defined timetable.

mistymoney

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Re: Golden Handcuffs - stay or leave?
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2019, 10:57:34 AM »
get an efficiency apartment, stay for another year so you can hit the places you want to hit at the time of the year you want to hit them.

100k into the kitty is going to be important for you eventually. Plus invest as much of your salary as you can for later. You could also extend your globe trotting to an entire year with extra salary savings to reward yourself.

If you already had 2m, not so much importance. but as you don't, and expect to come back and work for another 30+ years? this is a very meaningful chunk of money, at a very meaningful time in your investment timeline.