Author Topic: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans  (Read 25058 times)

PizzaSteve

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #150 on: August 24, 2018, 02:41:10 PM »
When I was pursuing my undergrad degrees I took a graduate level class in Human Sexuality as an elective.  One of the best modules of the class was a section focused on different loving styles, similar to how Myers-Briggs outlines behavioral decision making preferences.

One big 'take away' for me was that the criteria for love and a successful relationship varies dramatically by person, and it is important to both parners in a relationship understand their own 'loving style/needs' and those of their partner.  For some people love has nothing to do with material matters, they are romantics.  For others, marriage is about financial, religious, or lifestyle compatability, they are pragmatic.  For others still, friendship is what matters most, they dont need flowers or money, just a best friend and time together.  Other couples socialize separately with their boy or girl friends, and they dont particularly pal around with their partner (this is very common in Japan).

I would recommend considering what is needed by each of you from your relationship and whether your needs can be met by the other, without judging based in your own preferences.  It is not intrinsically wrong for a partner to seek financial security and love their partner for it, in fact it is common.  It is also not uncommon for a partner to seek specific criteria, such as a religious match above romance, or vice versa.  Knowing what you need and communicating that to your partner, transparently, is the key.

Good luck learning more about yourself and using that insight to be happier.  Dont let others judge you, and try to make sure your life partner understands your loving needs so they can meet them.

[edit:  I will add that one of the most common relationship mistakes, including on advice giving, is assuming others feel love the same way we do.  For example, several have posted ideas like, `you either lover her or you don't'.  That is the romantic loving relationship style.  However, a significant percentage of people do not pick partners that way, and for them something like a large debt impacting the ability to be successful or raise children could impact their feelings.  It is fascinating stuff to study.  When couples have different styles, misscommunication about love and the relationship is often the result.]
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 08:58:09 AM by PizzaSteve »

patchyfacialhair

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
  • Age: 30
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #151 on: August 24, 2018, 03:07:17 PM »
OP, assuming the "facts" you've presented are true, you deserve a face punch for even considering marrying someone who gives you a deadline to break up like she did.

The ONLY person you should consider marrying is someone that will absolutely fight for you and gets excited at the thought of you, even after a long period of dating.

My wife and I dated for 4 years, then had a year long engagement. We are vastly different in many ways, but, to this day, despite problems here and there (we all have them), we continue to love and support and fight for one another through the ups and downs.

SHE caused a problem, SHE needs to be the one in charge of the solution. Instead, her response is to let her know if you want to break up? That tells me she doesn't value you as a person, she values your earning capacity and your ability to rescue her. She's telling you, plainly, that she will absolutely look for someone else if her situation is a dealbreaker. If she was truly in love with you (hint: she isnt'), she would do anything and everything to get back into your good graces.

Shoot, I gained a ton of weight since my wife and I first met. I got literally obese. She told me it was not ok, in very nice words. You know what I did? I took it upon myself to correct that situation, and I'm well on my way. Yes, I'm doing it for me, but call me old fashioned, her and I are one unit, so I'm also doing that for us. Your significant other isn't even close to that, from what it seems.

Watchmaker

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 518
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #152 on: August 24, 2018, 04:11:20 PM »
I'll weigh in that, based on what you've said, I don't think she has acted badly towards you. Now, obviously we all bring our preconceptions and biases to this, and none of us posting has the full story. I probably wouldn't have posted at all, but it seemed like the bulk of the posts were "dump her" so I wanted to provide a counterpoint.

Timing the reveal of information like this is difficult, particularly when there is shame attached to it. It's certainly not something you bring up on the first date, and definitely needs to be disclosed before marriage. It sounds like she met those criteria. Now, taking on that much debt was almost certainly a mistake on her part, and she may or may not be dealing with it in a healthy way (I don't have enough information to say). But none of that had much to do with you (until now).

I would never break up with someone that I otherwise wanted to marry over this. But you are asking on and internet forum if you should marry her;  that sounds like doubts. I'm left wondering whether you truly do want to marry her in the first place? The suggestion above of slowing things down and exploring the relationship sounds good to me, but you need to first decide if you can move past this. If not--end it, for both your sakes. 

hdatontodo

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Balto Co, MD
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #153 on: August 24, 2018, 06:28:55 PM »
I would not marry someone with such debt. I was in a situation with someone with debt, and I had to foot the bill for vacations  food, and more. She could never contribute to the future, and she was a drain on my doing so.

Oh, and if you divorce, plan on paying alimony and child support for many years. Only marry someone with equal financial footing.

Also, if she becomes a stay at home mom, she won't be paying off the loan.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 08:48:38 PM by hdatontodo »

limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4497
  • Location: Australasia
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #154 on: August 24, 2018, 06:46:58 PM »
person you should consider marrying is someone that will absolutely fight for you and gets excited at the thought of you, even after a long period of dating.

SHE caused a problem, SHE needs to be the one in charge of the solution. Instead, her response is to let her know if you want to break up? That tells me she doesn't value you as a person, she values your earning capacity and your ability to rescue her. She's telling you, plainly, that she will absolutely look for someone else if her situation is a dealbreaker. If she was truly in love with you (hint: she isnt'), she would do anything and everything to get back into your good graces.

I am tending to agree with this.

So, about the following story...

I am going to give this to you from your girlfriends perspective, because, I WAS your girlfriend (slightly less debt though).  I met DH in grad school.  I was a poor college student with "six figures in debt" He was a more successful guy going back for degree completion (joined the military early in his life, 2 years older). 

I told him on our second date I had six figures in student loans (not an exact number). He didn't really seem to care.  The relationship progressed for about 2 years when it came do or die time, I was graduating, he was deploying, marriage was in the talks.  We had a "coming to Jesus" I told him my total loans, he told me his total net worth and offered to pay my loans off.

I. said. no.

We came up with a plan TOGETHER to pay my loans off.  This consisted of me staying in a HOLE of an apartment while he was deployed for 15 months, where I slept on a Craigslist futon and used my yard sale pots to cook (which i still own, Revere Ware for the win).  Every spare dime of my salary went to 1. ER fund and 2. Loan repayment.  In fairness he did pay my internet bill and give me his spare computer because I refused to pay for either because it wasn't in my budget. 

I worked 3 jobs those 15 months and paid off 60% of the debt, and saved a decent ER fund that I put into our downpayment on our first house to prove I was "all in".

If the OP's girlfriend is more like you, it would be quite a different thing. Is the OP's girlfriend willing to suck it up for a while and take responsibility for the loans? At this point, rather than a strong indication that she is fiercely determined to fight for the relationship and work hard to pay off the loans by herself, what's coming from her sounds more like a resigned "if you're going to break up with me let me know ASAP, need to find someone willing to make babies with me".

Peachtea

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 193
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #155 on: August 24, 2018, 07:05:06 PM »
Iím kind of annoyed at how you wrote this post because all your questions are maths related, I.e. whatís the best way for your GF to get rid of her loans. But all the background info is completely unnecessary if that was your actual question. Which is why most people seemed to have focused on your implied question of should I break up with my GF. Iíll addresss both questions.

Iím biased because I have $240k in student loans, which wasnít ever (as far as I know) a potential deal breaker in my relationship. My now DH then boyfriend watched me take on loans for grad school so he wasnít exactly shocked at the end when I tallied it all up for loan consolidation. While I can see how you might be shocked, I think youíre over reacting. I frequently describe my loans to others as ďover 100k.Ē Because itís essentially a simple way to say theyíre six figure. And I donít think you had any right to know the exact balance until after you started discussing marriage with your GF. While Iím open and unashamed about mine, many people are more private due to cultural norms about their finances. So I feel like ďhidĒ is an unfair description even if she kept it on the DL until now. If you said my DW just told me she has 210k in SL, well that would be a different matter. She told you exactly when she needed to.

I think the deadline to break up is a little weird, but understandable given her past experiences. Sheís probably resigned to losing yet another SO due to her loans and wants the band-aid ripped off rather than suffering in the unknown state. Either way it sounds like youíre unsure and feel betrayed now, so why donít you just hold off on the engagement part for now while you sort through mutual financial decisions?

The original post doesnít say and I skimmed the rest, so sorry if Iím asking questions already answered. If you want the maths questions answered I think you need to provide more detail about your joint financial situation. And it would probably be best to start a new thread, maybe under case studies with the financial details minus all the drama. How much do you make? Are you living together yet? How have you handled joint expenses so far?

Something to note is that in most states debts premarriage do not become joint debts as long as the spouse doesnít sign on to the account. If the accounts go in default creditors could come after joint property though. Youíll probably find this article insteresting and reassuring: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/debt-marriage-owe-spouse-debts-29572.html Do some research into your state specific laws.

One strategy Iíve seen couples take, particularly where the lower earning spouse has the debt and wants to pay off their own debt, is for the higher earning spouse to pay for all the joint household expenses so the other spouse can use the vast majority of their income to throw at the debt. Is this a possibility for you guys? If you currently donít live together, would moving in lower expenses enough that you could pay joint expenses without decreasing your savings rate too much? If so, she could knock out the loans in 5-6 years on her current income. If sheís successfully doing this for your say year pre-engagement and then maybe 1-2 year engagement, seems like you would probably be more comfortable with your future joint financial situation by the time you tied the knot. If she is not as mustachian as you outside of the loans, hearing that she could pay them off in that time frame might motivate her to become more focused on being frugal. Itís very easy to get hopeless about that level of debt when you know it will always follow you unlike someone elseís bad choices with cc debt. If you feel hopeless and that youíll never get rid of them, then you start to think it doesnít matter how you spend your money after meeting the minimums.

Re PSLF the most important factor isnít really financial. Does your GF like this field of work, not just this job? She might feel horribly locked in if bosses change etc. And being on PSLF makes your balance grow so the longer youíre  on it the more stuck you get. Is she reasonably certain she can maintain 10 years of public service employment elsewhere if something happens to this job? If she canít answer yes to those questions then PSLF is not the way to go even if itís maths speaking the best solution.

In terms of whether seeking a higher income in the private sector would be better, thereís two main considerations that you canít really calculate. 1) In some fields the public interest sector is the only way to have any semblance of a work-life balance. If thatís the case for hers, would she be able to last long enough in high pressure, long hour settings to make the higher pay worthwhile? 2) Some fields donít earn a whole lot in either the public or private sector. Whatís the likelihood that she could find much higher paying private sector jobs with her degrees or skill set? Be realistic about this because $60k is a good salary. Not ideal compared to 210k in loans, but overall itís certainly above average.

PSLF done right can be great for FIRE. Because if you start investing the difference between minimum income based payments and what your standard payment otherwise would be, it has ten years to grow. Meaning once the loans are gone you can have a nice stache. It also encourages you to put as much as possible into a 401k to lower income and thus the minimum payments. If you make a lot you would probably once married want to figure out if it makes more sense to file taxes separately to avoid your income being counted in your GFís income calculations (there are tax consequences to this that you have to calculate).

In terms of how to calculate if PLSF makes sense, use the payment calculator on sudentaid.ed.gov to see what the estimated total amount your GF would pay after ten years. Decide how you guys would otherwise attack her loans and calculate how much you would pay (balance plus interest) that way. Compare the difference and see if itís significant enough to have your GF commit to ten years of public service. The same goes for the 20-25 year forgiveness although for that you have to add in how much you would pay in taxes at forgiveness. Iím not sure if it that program ever works out as a huge benefit except for the most extreme cases.

Read up all you can about the PSLF program, studentaid.ed.gov and white coat investor are good places to start. It doesnít sound like you really understand it, because you donít get accepted into the program. You can ask for advisory opinions on if certain jobs qualify, but in general someone could work at a nonprofit for 10 years and then apply for forgiveness without ever having filed specific PSLF paperwork before then. Which leads to the next question. Does your GF have 6 months towards the program because sheís only ever worked nonprofit full time for last six months? Or are you basing it off when she submitted her first employment certification form saying sheís interested in PSLF? The months qualified isnít calculated from when you submit the paperwork asking if your current job qualifies. If she had other nonprofit work and has been on a qualifying income based payment program she should see if she can get credit for those months as well. Iím guessing sheís been on the correct payment plan because with that high of loans and that level income, most people would naturally choose the income based plan.

If sheís decides to do PSLF for all the loans, she should try only consolidating the non qualifying loans so that the clock only starts over for those. Iím not sure if this is possible, but something to look into. Definitely have her do any consolidations before marriage if youíre in a community property state. That way the debt doesnít become yours after consolidation.

Jaayse

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Somewhere on the Ocean
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #156 on: August 24, 2018, 07:43:30 PM »
I've read through the whole thread and I think most perspectives have been covered.  IMO OP is the only one with the information to determine if the relationship is worth keeping or not.  My 2 cents are more to help facilitate the process, not make the decisions. 

Determine what decisions must be made, and who has control of them.  There are some decisions that are entirely in your control (to stay with her or not/ or request a longer engagement), some entirely in her control (to make debt her priority or not) and some that you both must decide if your relationship continues (to have kids or not).  These don't all have to be made immediately, in my profession, we make timelines with decision points which could be useful to you, focus on the most immediate decisions to be made.  Also, not all decisions are binary, you can set reasonable conditions.

Determine what your fears and priorities are and what her fears and priorities are, have a discussion.  Sometimes misinformation leads to fear, and on that note I will leave you with an interesting video to address common misinformation that I saw earlier in this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9ryP0UyO5U

frugaliknowit

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #157 on: August 25, 2018, 09:23:03 AM »
I think it boils down to:

1.  Do you perceive you were consciously/intentionally deceived by your GF, as opposed to the relationship not being serious enough early on for her to disclose her debt to you (very understandable), then the whole situation "organically snowballing" to where it was up to the point where you guys had "the talk"?

2.  Assuming it was the latter, do you think you want to spend a very long time committed (theoretically till death) to your GF.  If the former, I'd bail.

a-scho

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 97
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #158 on: August 25, 2018, 05:00:30 PM »
Well, she finally, after two years of dating, told you her situation and then said, "I need to know within a week whether you are going to take it or leave it."

So, how about you tell her YOUR situation:
1. at what age you would like to be married.
2. What age is your limit for bringing kids into the mix. She told you she wants them in her early thirties, but she is not in a financial position to decide that.
3. Are you okay with the debt still existing after getting married, how much? (I personally would not marry her until the debt is gone or very close to gone, like less than a year away. And definitely no kids until it's gone) And after mathing the shit up, maybe she won't clear the debt until she's closer to forty......
4. you want a better plan in place to clear the debt. Can she adhere to that plan? for example, looking for a better paying job, her moving in with you and most of her income going to the debt, taking on side hustles, spending less on non-essentials, etc. She might say yes to these things, but how is she in action? I know she made a huge sacrifice by getting rid of her car, but she's going to need to do years of sacrifices to pay off this amount. If she truly wants to be with you and have kids with you, she will put in the work to meet your demands. And if she would rather break up so she can have kids as soon as possible with someone else, consider it dodging a bullet.

Basically, tell her what YOU want. Then SHE can decide whether to take it or leave it.

nkt0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #159 on: August 26, 2018, 09:32:31 AM »
I'm fascinated by how much attention this thread has drawn. People are really opinionated about this topic! :D

Kathryn K.

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #160 on: August 26, 2018, 11:54:03 AM »
Outside of looking at the student loan issue specifically, I would say that with THREE pretty important things the OP has concerns about with his GF - the student loans, weight, and mismatch in housekeeping expectations - that is a sign to me that the OP really needs to think about if this is a relationship that will work for both him and his GF for the long-term.

As someone coming up on ten years of marriage, there are so many unforeseen issues and difficulties that can come up after the wedding, that having so many issues already beforehand would make it very, very difficult. My husband and I had ONE major mismatch we knew about before marriage (housekeeping expectations, and contrary to stereotypes I am also the slobbier one) which continually rears its head and been a major source of friction, so I can't imagine adding two more large issues on top of that.

I have a feeling the OP has a mix of inertia (hence the GF's deadline) and not wanting to be shallow or judgmental of his GF that has prevented him from ripping off the band-aid off ending the relationship despite his major concerns.  I had similar ideas of not being judgmental or shallow in some of my earlier relationships, but bottom line is that liking what you like doesn't make you a bad person.  Would you want someone to be with you if they had major reservations about you? Now of course, no one is perfect and most of us aren't going to be marrying someone who's a combination of a supermodel and Martha Stewart but you have to like and be excited enough about most aspects of the person that you can deal with the couple small things you aren't crazy about.

And considering that the OP and his GF are both 30 and have been dating for two years, they've had plenty of time and perspective to know if they want to move forward and, while the OP is the only one who can know for sure, his lack of enthusiasm is a pretty clear 'no' to me.  If it is a no, it would be kindest to both the GF and himself to end things sooner rather than later.

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4608
  • Age: 11
  • Location: USA
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #161 on: August 26, 2018, 12:50:38 PM »
I'm fascinated by how much attention this thread has drawn. People are really opinionated about this topic! :D
- wealth inequality
- poor decision making
- student loans
- relationship advice
- general deception drama

You've hit the MMM forums jackpot. Do you have a different opinion than your girlfriend on gun control too? Because that's all you need for this thread to make the forums implode.

snapperdude

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 107
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #162 on: August 26, 2018, 07:57:18 PM »
Someone said: ďThis thread has trained me that--when I see a beautiful woman, and am shocked to realize there is no wedding ring on her ring finger--I will say to myself, "That woman must have blown through $230,000 in student  debt." Because how would she not be married otherwise?ď

I am not ugly and wear no wedding ring, but thatís because if I married my life partner, weíd get hit by the ďmarriage penaltyĒ and have 2 primary residences and my crazy relatives would give us more stupid toasters and glassware than they already do. (We prefer mason jars as glasses.) also I work in a lab so Iíd probably lose the ring. I wish guys checking out my hands wouldnít assume I am single. I get rude when they hit on me.
Totally off-topic at this point, but a couple I know of (online) both work in a place where things go "boom", and thus have major restrictions on what jewelry etc. they can wear on-site. They wound up getting their "rings" tattooed on their ring-fingers, in the form of elvish script from LoTR (the One Ring inscription, I believe :).  Of course, I've also seen cheap silicone rings for sale that are meant to stand in for the real thing in such environments.

That sounds like a mystery, Agatha.

worms

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #163 on: August 26, 2018, 11:52:39 PM »
I haven't read the responses, hell I didn't even read all of your OP.  But c'mon.  This is the woman you love and want to spend the rest of your life with?  $200k is nothing compared to that.  Unless you're looking for an "out", this would be a terrible reason to shut her out.

Money isn't everything in life.

This!  Itís either love or it isnít. If it is, clear the debt on Day 1 after marriage (Yes, from your own hard-earned stash!) and never look back.  I suspect, though, that if it was love, the OP would never have even thought about not paying up and would certainly never have posted on here about it!

TheExplorer

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #164 on: August 27, 2018, 12:12:18 AM »
I haven't read the responses, hell I didn't even read all of your OP.  But c'mon.  This is the woman you love and want to spend the rest of your life with?  $200k is nothing compared to that.  Unless you're looking for an "out", this would be a terrible reason to shut her out.

Money isn't everything in life.

This!  It’s either love or it isn’t. If it is, clear the debt on Day 1 after marriage (Yes, from your own hard-earned stash!) and never look back.  I suspect, though, that if it was love, the OP would never have even thought about not paying up and would certainly never have posted on here about it!

Funny. I wanted to but didn't say anything initially on that comment, but given its now been endorsed I'm going to wade in.

To me the first quote epitomises one of the key issues in society today - that people talk and give opinions without listening first. Results in half baked ideas and makes it impossible and a waste of time having discussions generally.

You may have missed out on some key context, but it's great you feel good about sharing your opinion with us all...

Now I'm off to take my chill pill... ;-)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 12:22:13 AM by TheExplorer »

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10845
  • Age: 61
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #165 on: August 27, 2018, 08:03:08 AM »
Interesting discussion. I found it odd that OP hasn't been back in a while. I checked out his post history and found this:

As much as I want a life partner, I hate the idea of working 40 hours a week for another ~40 years. If its hard to sell someone you are already close to on the idea of FIRE, imagine how difficult it is to assess how likely a stranger is going to be open to such a lifestyle and then talk to them about it as the relationship gets more serious over and over again.

Based on his minimal participation here since he joined in 2014, and the fact that the SO's deadline has passed, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to hear his decision.

ak907

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 64
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #166 on: August 27, 2018, 09:12:48 AM »
Sorry for not posting for a bit folks. I appreciate all the opinions. I will get back with more data as I get time. As you may imagine this weekend was tough with long conversations, emotions and strategizing.
  In short she has been just getting by for such a long time making required payments that she basically forgot she needed to something more than that. She did not intentionally conceal the loans from me a any sort of scheme and is deeply embarrassed and upset. She also has $6,000 in credit card debt she was hoping to pay off with savings from not having a car. She had been investing into her 401k and IRA on my guidance (in ignorance of the fact that the debt repayment situation was not in fact under control), in growing excitement and hope of heading down the FIRE path with me. She will be cutting these back to nothing more than getting matching and redirecting to debt. She is currently aggressively job hunting and I am as well.

  The most urgent (this thing is adding on ~$37.6 per day) issue (aside from higher earnings) is the problem of finding out which path is best, of the two available, Public Service Lone Forgiveness over 10 years or trying to pay down the loans after rolling them into private ones to reduce APR. Data needs to be gathered on these to scenarios (possible salary, private loan APR rate) and a spreadsheet to game out estimated net worth at the end of each scenario and how much can be invested at the same time.
  One other path the I have found is that some federal government agencies have loan repayment plans that will pay up to $10,000 per year for up to 6 years which are able to be applied as qualifying PSLF payments. which would mean no payments on loans for 6 years plus loan forgiveness at end of 10 years. The catch is getting a government job at an agency that runs such a program.

  Some here are underestimating the load these loans present. Using a mortgage calculator I was able to estimate that to pay them off in 5 years (before kids) at current APR would require ~50,000 per year every year. This would take a minimum salary by my calculations after state, federal, social security taxes and 401k match (off the top of my head it still makes sense to double your money plus save ~20% from not paying taxes and get average stock market returns vs pay a bit more to loan) and healthcare of at least 80,000. Basically on my own I would currently barely be able to do more than address these loans on my salary let alone hers. One way or another paying these loans off directly would mean not saving any real money for 1/2 a decade for one of us.

PizzaSteve

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #167 on: August 27, 2018, 09:19:30 AM »
Thanks for the update.  It is great you were able to talk about this challenge with her and also the important elements of your relationship for each of you prior to a marriage committment.

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4593
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #168 on: August 27, 2018, 09:23:07 AM »
Sounds like you have had good conversations, which is a definite plus in any close relationship.

Regarding the potential 10 year pay-off, how does having kids factor into that?  Because the next 10 years is the exact timetable for getting pregnant, giving birth, breastfeeding and raising babies, so that's a significant hurdle to cross.

patchyfacialhair

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
  • Age: 30
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #169 on: August 27, 2018, 09:24:23 AM »
Thanks for the additional detail and I'm glad you're not perceiving it as deception.

What about her ultimatum? Some of us were more concerned by that than the debt. What were your overall feelings on that?

iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3331
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #170 on: August 27, 2018, 09:45:24 AM »
It is great that she seems onboard with mustachian principles.

I disagree with those who say If you are thinking of leaving her, you dont luuuuuuurv her. That is bullshit. Love is easy. The rest of itónot so much.

Yeah and be careful about factoring in ten years servitide to gubmnt agency for loan forgiveness.if she has babies at home, she may abandon work.

oP I would lie to know: how important is it to you to have children? If you definitely want children, be sure to factor in her qualifications as mother. The choice of mother is the most important parenting decision you will make.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 10:58:57 AM by iris lily »

Psychstache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #171 on: August 27, 2018, 10:13:28 AM »
Sorry for not posting for a bit folks. I appreciate all the opinions. I will get back with more data as I get time. As you may imagine this weekend was tough with long conversations, emotions and strategizing.
  In short she has been just getting by for such a long time making required payments that she basically forgot she needed to something more than that. She did not intentionally conceal the loans from me a any sort of scheme and is deeply embarrassed and upset. She also has $6,000 in credit card debt she was hoping to pay off with savings from not having a car. She had been investing into her 401k and IRA on my guidance (in ignorance of the fact that the debt repayment situation was not in fact under control), in growing excitement and hope of heading down the FIRE path with me. She will be cutting these back to nothing more than getting matching and redirecting to debt. She is currently aggressively job hunting and I am as well.

  The most urgent (this thing is adding on ~$37.6 per day) issue (aside from higher earnings) is the problem of finding out which path is best, of the two available, Public Service Lone Forgiveness over 10 years or trying to pay down the loans after rolling them into private ones to reduce APR. Data needs to be gathered on these to scenarios (possible salary, private loan APR rate) and a spreadsheet to game out estimated net worth at the end of each scenario and how much can be invested at the same time.
  One other path the I have found is that some federal government agencies have loan repayment plans that will pay up to $10,000 per year for up to 6 years which are able to be applied as qualifying PSLF payments. which would mean no payments on loans for 6 years plus loan forgiveness at end of 10 years. The catch is getting a government job at an agency that runs such a program.

  Some here are underestimating the load these loans present. Using a mortgage calculator I was able to estimate that to pay them off in 5 years (before kids) at current APR would require ~50,000 per year every year. This would take a minimum salary by my calculations after state, federal, social security taxes and 401k match (off the top of my head it still makes sense to double your money plus save ~20% from not paying taxes and get average stock market returns vs pay a bit more to loan) and healthcare of at least 80,000. Basically on my own I would currently barely be able to do more than address these loans on my salary let alone hers. One way or another paying these loans off directly would mean not saving any real money for 1/2 a decade for one of us.

Sounds like some good conversation was had and that you two have found some effective methods of communicating. That is like 80% of the challenge in a relationship, so kudos to you both.

On the finance side, please don't miss part re PSLF: if you two are married your combined income is used in the calculation for your Income Driven Repayment plan, so you have to consider what your combined incomes would be over the time frame. The good news is that the payment is based on a modified AGI, so the more you save the lower your payment (as an extreme example, there was a year where my wife and I made a little over 6 figures gross, but my IBR payment was $10 a month bc of how much pre-tax investment we made).

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3395
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #172 on: August 27, 2018, 10:57:06 AM »
A lot to digest. Like others said, you have to decide, yourself whether this is a dealbreaker. You have already said if you knew this before getting serious, you would have not gotten serious. But now you are serious and have been together for 2 years. Do you feel like her, your relationship with her is worth it despite this new information? Like others say, everyone brings slightly different things to the table in a relationship only you can decide if this is a situation you want to commit yourself fully to.

2), if it is not a dealbreaker, like what others said, it doesn't have to be a decision between a) breaking up and b) getting married and merging everything 100%. It can be some shade in-between.

3) However you decide to merge finances and help her pay down debts, make sure she feels the responsibility. As an example of what NOT to do, a couple I know divorced, because she was cheating. Both the husband and wife came into the marriage with student loans. Her student loans were higher and higher interest. He was the primary breadwinner. To make the financially right decision he paid down hers at the expense of paying down his. When they got divorced, she walked away with no student loans. He still has his student loans to pay off.
If you stay with her, yes help her. Help her in researching the best ways to pay them off. Help her in finding ways to increase her income/reduce expenses. Even help her by chipping in, or having her pay less in household expenses. But I advise AGAINST paying down her loans at the sacrifice of your own savings or your future dreams. It may take longer, it may cost more, but she will have the satisfaction of taking care of her own financial obligations.


I think magnet 18 had some good overall advice

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6752
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #173 on: August 27, 2018, 11:11:15 AM »
3) However you decide to merge finances and help her pay down debts, make sure she feels the responsibility. As an example of what NOT to do, a couple I know divorced, because she was cheating. Both the husband and wife came into the marriage with student loans. Her student loans were higher and higher interest. He was the primary breadwinner. To make the financially right decision he paid down hers at the expense of paying down his. When they got divorced, she walked away with no student loans. He still has his student loans to pay off.
If you stay with her, yes help her. Help her in researching the best ways to pay them off. Help her in finding ways to increase her income/reduce expenses. Even help her by chipping in, or having her pay less in household expenses. But I advise AGAINST paying down her loans at the sacrifice of your own savings or your future dreams. It may take longer, it may cost more, but she will have the satisfaction of taking care of her own financial obligations.

Good points.

Until/unless you get married don't merge finances or pay down her loans for her. Help her in other ways pay down her loans as best as she can and save/invest your own money. If you do get married she'll benefit from your huge war chest and if something goes sideways and you don't get married you keep your own wealth and she keeps her debt.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2562
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #174 on: August 27, 2018, 02:14:12 PM »
Someone said: ďThis thread has trained me that--when I see a beautiful woman, and am shocked to realize there is no wedding ring on her ring finger--I will say to myself, "That woman must have blown through $230,000 in student  debt." Because how would she not be married otherwise?ď

I am not ugly and wear no wedding ring, but thatís because if I married my life partner, weíd get hit by the ďmarriage penaltyĒ and have 2 primary residences and my crazy relatives would give us more stupid toasters and glassware than they already do. (We prefer mason jars as glasses.) also I work in a lab so Iíd probably lose the ring. I wish guys checking out my hands wouldnít assume I am single. I get rude when they hit on me.

It sounds as though you have decided marriage is not for you, but you also have entered into the kind of relationship that involves mustachian forethought and commitment. Congrats!

My imaginations that spring into my mind when I see people biking on the side of the road--or wonder if they are available for a romantic relationship--are only instantaneous thoughts, which I do not allow to turn into any kind of ungracious act.

J Boogie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1031
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #175 on: August 27, 2018, 02:53:08 PM »
She sounds like a good and caring person, but it also sounds like she hasn't been either willing or able to take responsibility until the 11th hour.  It sounds more like she's had a general sense that she won't have to or doesn't want to think about it because it's depressing and ignorance is bliss - incurring consumer debt and spending that much on a vehicle with her balance sheet bear it out.

In addition to the financial irresponsibility, the lack of tidiness and personal fitness sound like they get under your skin. No judgment on you or her - these are traits that are good for people to match up with. It sounds like you might be happier and less likely to be resentful in a relationship if you were with someone who was equally responsible.

It doesn't seem like you're a match from a personal responsibility perspective. There are probably dudes out there who would be stoked to be with her, and there are probably plenty of women out there just as responsible as you who would be stoked to be with you.

Your update about her being on board with saving and paying down debt honestly sounds like it'll fizzle out soon when the frugal fatigue sets in.








Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5739
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #176 on: August 27, 2018, 06:04:58 PM »
What bothers me the most is that her weight bothers him. Things happen beyond our control and she could develop some type of illness that causes her to be overweight. Are going to dump her then?  I would do the loan forgiveness program with the understanding she canít be a SAHM until her loans are paid off.

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3183
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Texas
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #177 on: August 27, 2018, 06:10:23 PM »
This is probably the most intriguing thread I've read with wildly different views...

I think you, as the significant other, have to decide if she is maturing into an adult and going to have the level of personal discipline needed for a relationship and marriage.  You too have to make that decision.

The negatives:
She has $200k in debt.   She was embarrassed and hid this.  You two likely fought with a crazy deadline (people say stupid shit when they're fighting)
She doesn't view this debt as a complete and total emergency
She is 30 with two degrees and her skill set has only afforded her a $60,000 job
She struggles with the personal discipline to work out and eat well (ironically, this would probably be my deal-killer just because I couldn't stay disciplined on those two things without a supportive partner in the house)

The positives:
She is bought in enough to FI to ride a god damn electric bike to work vs. a car
She is certainty, you've been together long enough to know what you're going to get.   


I have some random advice in no particular order:

To answer your original question about how big of deal the debt is, that much is enough to pay for professional advice.  There's a guy in the FI community that owns Student Loan Planner dot com.  He's legit.  Pay for the professional advice.  If you and her get married, this is something you both deal with in your future.

My wife also racked up near six figures in student loan debt for a similar level job, which she ended up not loving.  She also delayed earning income for three years and it held my career back because I working in a small college town.  Any resentment I held about that was destructive to our relationship and I got over it fast.  Do I feel it every once in a while?  Sure.  Then I kick its ass back into the closet and forget about it, because we're a partnership and we make some good decisions and some bad decisions.  She's been wonderful to me.

Cleanliness?  You're getting a wife, not a maid.  Most people aren't tidy, factor in the cost of a maid or plan on doing 90% of the work.  Folks at 30 don't change that. 

Marriage is about compromise, I know plenty of perpetually single people with a long list of deal-killers.



remizidae

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 219
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #178 on: August 27, 2018, 06:18:10 PM »

Yeah and be careful about factoring in ten years servitide to gubmnt agency for loan forgiveness.if she has babies at home, she may abandon work.

Absolutely they should discuss this, but let's not assume that every woman is just dying to drop out of the workplace. You'd have to be pretty damn irresponsible to get into that much debt for a career and then throw the career in the trash because BABIES.

remizidae

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 219
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #179 on: August 27, 2018, 06:27:41 PM »
One other path the I have found is that some federal government agencies have loan repayment plans that will pay up to $10,000 per year for up to 6 years which are able to be applied as qualifying PSLF payments. which would mean no payments on loans for 6 years plus loan forgiveness at end of 10 years. The catch is getting a government job at an agency that runs such a program.

I have some experience with this. A few things to keep in mind:
  • The loan repayment is not guaranteed. Some agencies give it out routinely; for others it is a theoretical benefit that no one actually gets. Even if you work for the former, the policy could change at any time. So, this should not be your main reason for choosing a job. And if you are eligible for repayment assistance, it'll only be paid some time after you start the job--at least one year plus however long it takes them to process the paperwork (5 months for me).
  • The repayment is taxable income. That means that if you get approved for $10k, you will not get $10k towards the loan. The amount you get is dependent on your tax rate, but $6k is a fair estimate.
  • The increase in taxable income also means that your minimum payments will go up. On the margin, this program makes PSLF less valuable because you have to pay more before getting forgiveness.

Overall, still a good thing to have!

OtherJen

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1580
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #180 on: August 27, 2018, 06:55:06 PM »
What bothers me the most is that her weight bothers him. Things happen beyond our control and she could develop some type of illness that causes her to be overweight. Are going to dump her then?  I would do the loan forgiveness program with the understanding she canít be a SAHM until her loans are paid off.

This was the biggest red flag for me, as well. Bodies and health change with age, and womenís bodies change significantly with pregnancy and childbirth.

Kathryn K.

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #181 on: August 27, 2018, 07:46:37 PM »
What bothers me the most is that her weight bothers him. Things happen beyond our control and she could develop some type of illness that causes her to be overweight. Are going to dump her then?  I would do the loan forgiveness program with the understanding she canít be a SAHM until her loans are paid off.

This was the biggest red flag for me, as well. Bodies and health change with age, and womenís bodies change significantly with pregnancy and childbirth.

IMO there's a big difference with discovering you're not crazy about someone's weight before you married and made a commitment to them versus being a jerk who expects his wife to never gain a pound after marriage, and I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt that he's in the first category. 

OtherJen

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1580
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #182 on: August 27, 2018, 07:50:01 PM »
What bothers me the most is that her weight bothers him. Things happen beyond our control and she could develop some type of illness that causes her to be overweight. Are going to dump her then?  I would do the loan forgiveness program with the understanding she canít be a SAHM until her loans are paid off.

This was the biggest red flag for me, as well. Bodies and health change with age, and womenís bodies change significantly with pregnancy and childbirth.

IMO there's a big difference with discovering you're not crazy about someone's weight before you married and made a commitment to them versus being a jerk who expects his wife to never gain a pound after marriage, and I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt that he's in the first category.

I hope youíre right. My attitude is probably colored by memories of an emotionally abusive college boyfriend who included negging about my weight/appearance among his tactics. It seems like itís something that should be addressed and dealt with BEFORE marriage, though, given that the OP brought it up as a significant concern.

Stupendous

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #183 on: August 27, 2018, 08:13:39 PM »
I'd move on. She intentionally hid it from you. IMO if you have monster sized loans, that is something you should disclose within 6 months or when it gets serious. That's, rightfully, a deal breaker for some. Also, don't be surprised if she bails after you help her zero out those loans.

middo

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
  • Location: Country Western Australia
  • Learning.
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #184 on: August 27, 2018, 09:59:57 PM »
Sorry for not posting for a bit folks. I appreciate all the opinions. I will get back with more data as I get time. As you may imagine this weekend was tough with long conversations, emotions and strategizing.
  In short she has been just getting by for such a long time making required payments that she basically forgot she needed to something more than that. She did not intentionally conceal the loans from me a any sort of scheme and is deeply embarrassed and upset. She also has $6,000 in credit card debt she was hoping to pay off with savings from not having a car. She had been investing into her 401k and IRA on my guidance (in ignorance of the fact that the debt repayment situation was not in fact under control), in growing excitement and hope of heading down the FIRE path with me. She will be cutting these back to nothing more than getting matching and redirecting to debt. She is currently aggressively job hunting and I am as well.

  The most urgent (this thing is adding on ~$37.6 per day) issue (aside from higher earnings) is the problem of finding out which path is best, of the two available, Public Service Lone Forgiveness over 10 years or trying to pay down the loans after rolling them into private ones to reduce APR. Data needs to be gathered on these to scenarios (possible salary, private loan APR rate) and a spreadsheet to game out estimated net worth at the end of each scenario and how much can be invested at the same time.
  One other path the I have found is that some federal government agencies have loan repayment plans that will pay up to $10,000 per year for up to 6 years which are able to be applied as qualifying PSLF payments. which would mean no payments on loans for 6 years plus loan forgiveness at end of 10 years. The catch is getting a government job at an agency that runs such a program.

  Some here are underestimating the load these loans present. Using a mortgage calculator I was able to estimate that to pay them off in 5 years (before kids) at current APR would require ~50,000 per year every year. This would take a minimum salary by my calculations after state, federal, social security taxes and 401k match (off the top of my head it still makes sense to double your money plus save ~20% from not paying taxes and get average stock market returns vs pay a bit more to loan) and healthcare of at least 80,000. Basically on my own I would currently barely be able to do more than address these loans on my salary let alone hers. One way or another paying these loans off directly would mean not saving any real money for 1/2 a decade for one of us.

I haven't chimed in until now, but thought it might be a good time to do so. 

Firstly, if you are planning on getting married and having kids, stop thinking about your income, your stash, her income, her debts.  They are yours - plural.  The families.  Once you get married, or at least make a solid commitment to each other that you expect to live together forever, and raise your children together, I would suggest you pool everything.  There is never true equity in relationships.  One will always bring more into a relationship than the other.  Inheritances will also affect what each partner brings and when. 

Secondly, I would be looking at how you can pay off the loans without using any of your stash.  It should be a combined effort.  if you can both throw a significant portion of your income you could snowball them, starting with the highest interest one first.  Then it becomes a team effort, just like raising kids is a team effort.  Is this the best financial decision?  I don't know.  It would be good for your relationship though if you do things together.

Lastly, If she is worried that you may walk out on her, and is looking to have kids, you need to let her know that you won't do that.  There will be hard times, and good times.  If you are prepared to work together on the debt, on your relationship, on your family, and towards your retirement, then you can achieve anything you set your sights on.

limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4497
  • Location: Australasia
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #185 on: August 27, 2018, 10:26:28 PM »
What bothers me the most is that her weight bothers him. Things happen beyond our control and she could develop some type of illness that causes her to be overweight. Are going to dump her then?  I would do the loan forgiveness program with the understanding she canít be a SAHM until her loans are paid off.

This was the biggest red flag for me, as well. Bodies and health change with age, and womenís bodies change significantly with pregnancy and childbirth.

IMO there's a big difference with discovering you're not crazy about someone's weight before you married and made a commitment to them versus being a jerk who expects his wife to never gain a pound after marriage, and I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt that he's in the first category.

In addition to that, I think there's a difference between someone who's quite capable of losing weight and doesn't, vs. someone who has genuine medical reasons for having difficulty losing weight. I have a friend for example who can clearly maintain a good level of health and fitness when he really wants to, eating well and hitting the gym when he's single, but once he's in a relationship he lets it slide, presumably because he doesn't feel the need to make the effort anymore. Based on my observations, most people get more complacent about these things when they're in a long-term relationship or get married, so my advice for this to the OP is, to avoid disappointment, don't expect that to improve, and be prepared for it to magnify. Occasionally you'll see the exceptions, but even in those cases it seems that it's often because they've been triggered by a major health scare and suddenly woke up to how serious the situation is. It's just human nature I guess.

One

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 222
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #186 on: August 27, 2018, 10:46:44 PM »
Don't get married! Keep finances separate. Keep dating and enjoy life.

K-ice

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 931
  • Location: Canada
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #187 on: August 28, 2018, 08:22:18 AM »
The best thing you can do for her, regardless if you are together long term or not, is help her with a plan so she can get her debt under control.

She needs to get serious about her debt & tackle it with hair on fire urgency.

If you stay together, Iíd help her out a bit by paying more expenses, but otherwise keep your finances separate.

Weíve been together 18y, our incomes have flip flopped with SO making more than double me the first 10y. Now we are very equal in income but obviously not in investments. In hindsight we maybe should have split expenses proportional to our incomes, but instead we just lived a frugal life the poorest one could afford.

My point is we have each paid our own way & kept things separate even though we have no financial red flags.

I am very concerned someone with $60K income has $6K credit card debt.

I would not comingal money with her anytime soon.


Wishing you both the best.

J Boogie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1031
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #188 on: August 28, 2018, 08:29:36 AM »
I am skeptical of the response to those who are bothered that his SO's weight (which, based on his words, seem to be related to a lack of effort and not medical/genetic issues) and tidiness are an issue for OP.

They're dating - these are legitimate things for any man or woman to consider when thinking about marriage. It's a compatibility issue. Fitness, tidiness, financial responsibility - these habits often go together. Someone who is low in these areas will probably be happier with someone else who is low in these areas and vice versa.

I'm not saying don't be giving and understanding in a relationship. I'm saying set yourself up to be giving and understanding without burning out and exhausting your reserves. You have a much better chance of being a good husband or wife if you choose someone that you have complete confidence in their willingness and ability to work just as hard as you toward a shared vision.

That way, when the bumps in the road inevitably come, you'll be able to work through them. Together. If the whole road is bumpy, your chances aren't great. You'll start to wonder why you're putting so much into the relationship.




unleashthemind

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #189 on: August 28, 2018, 08:39:02 AM »
You could honestly be making the worst decision of your life by marrying her. Don't let the sunk cost fallacy ruin your life; you need to get out.

Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3486
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #190 on: August 28, 2018, 09:54:19 AM »
I am skeptical of the response to those who are bothered that his SO's weight (which, based on his words, seem to be related to a lack of effort and not medical/genetic issues) and tidiness are an issue for OP.

They're dating - these are legitimate things for any man or woman to consider when thinking about marriage. It's a compatibility issue. Fitness, tidiness, financial responsibility - these habits often go together. Someone who is low in these areas will probably be happier with someone else who is low in these areas and vice versa.

I suspect a lot of these people and larger-sized and untidy themselves, so of course it's outrageous to suggest those things make a person undesirable :)

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3183
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Texas
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #191 on: August 28, 2018, 10:32:09 AM »
I am skeptical of the response to those who are bothered that his SO's weight (which, based on his words, seem to be related to a lack of effort and not medical/genetic issues) and tidiness are an issue for OP.

They're dating - these are legitimate things for any man or woman to consider when thinking about marriage. It's a compatibility issue. Fitness, tidiness, financial responsibility - these habits often go together. Someone who is low in these areas will probably be happier with someone else who is low in these areas and vice versa.

I'm not saying don't be giving and understanding in a relationship. I'm saying set yourself up to be giving and understanding without burning out and exhausting your reserves. You have a much better chance of being a good husband or wife if you choose someone that you have complete confidence in their willingness and ability to work just as hard as you toward a shared vision.

That way, when the bumps in the road inevitably come, you'll be able to work through them. Together. If the whole road is bumpy, your chances aren't great. You'll start to wonder why you're putting so much into the relationship.

I kind of agree with all of this

MDfive21

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 202
  • Location: HTX
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #192 on: August 28, 2018, 11:07:03 AM »
just a couple things to add, as pretty much all the bases have been covered.

1. how fat is the OP?  and/or what flaws of yours is GF overlooking in order to stay with you?  more of a rhetorical to get you thinking.

2.  if weight is a problem, 'calories in, calories out' has been pretty much debunked in favor or controlling macro-nutrients, with a 'high fat, low carb' intake being preferable in most humans.  stop eating bread, rice, sugar, potatoes and ramp up the steak, bacon and MCT oil.  check out the keto thread on here or google keto gains.  start here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDFxdkck354

3.  honestly it sounds like OP and GF have the makings of a good relationship, and should continue to date, get engaged and set a wedding date at least one year out.  this gives you both time to adjust to the new normal and get back into a groove.  OP keep working your spreadsheets.  keep in mind, the wedding is not the end game.  it's just the beginning.

4.  obviously you're a bit of a nerd and i'm sure you can build up a spreadsheet to project income/debt/savings/net worth for the next 10+ years.  building my spreadsheets was key to keeping a clear head in my non-perfect marriage.

good luck!

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3395
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #193 on: August 28, 2018, 11:31:09 AM »
just a couple things to add, as pretty much all the bases have been covered.

1. how fat is the OP?  and/or what flaws of yours is GF overlooking in order to stay with you?  more of a rhetorical to get you thinking.

2.  if weight is a problem, 'calories in, calories out' has been pretty much debunked in favor or controlling macro-nutrients, with a 'high fat, low carb' intake being preferable in most humans.  stop eating bread, rice, sugar, potatoes and ramp up the steak, bacon and MCT oil.  check out the keto thread on here or google keto gains.  start here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDFxdkck354

3.  honestly it sounds like OP and GF have the makings of a good relationship, and should continue to date, get engaged and set a wedding date at least one year out.  this gives you both time to adjust to the new normal and get back into a groove.  OP keep working your spreadsheets.  keep in mind, the wedding is not the end game.  it's just the beginning.

4.  obviously you're a bit of a nerd and i'm sure you can build up a spreadsheet to project income/debt/savings/net worth for the next 10+ years.  building my spreadsheets was key to keeping a clear head in my non-perfect marriage.

good luck!

Nothing to do with relationships, but everyone is different and a diet that works for one person might be hell/unpleasant/not work for another person. What are good guidelines: reduce empty calories (sugar/sweeteners, alcohol, junk and fast food), increase produce and whole grains, watch your overall caloric intake AND making sure you include physical activity most days. There is no such thing as a perfect diet, just more or less optimal diets.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2562
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #194 on: August 28, 2018, 02:43:38 PM »
Did the deadline come, yet, OP? Tell us what you concluded?

One of my girlfriends told me that her grandfather sat down, and wrote a two-column list about whether he should marry her grandmother. There were enough things on the plus-side that he decided to do it. Ironically, I broke up with her soon after, but that made me single at a time when I could begin a relationship with Mrs. TallTexan. Best of luck!

OtherJen

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1580
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #195 on: August 28, 2018, 03:21:12 PM »
just a couple things to add, as pretty much all the bases have been covered.

1. how fat is the OP?  and/or what flaws of yours is GF overlooking in order to stay with you?  more of a rhetorical to get you thinking.

2.  if weight is a problem, 'calories in, calories out' has been pretty much debunked in favor or controlling macro-nutrients, with a 'high fat, low carb' intake being preferable in most humans.  stop eating bread, rice, sugar, potatoes and ramp up the steak, bacon and MCT oil.  check out the keto thread on here or google keto gains.  start here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDFxdkck354

3.  honestly it sounds like OP and GF have the makings of a good relationship, and should continue to date, get engaged and set a wedding date at least one year out.  this gives you both time to adjust to the new normal and get back into a groove.  OP keep working your spreadsheets.  keep in mind, the wedding is not the end game.  it's just the beginning.

4.  obviously you're a bit of a nerd and i'm sure you can build up a spreadsheet to project income/debt/savings/net worth for the next 10+ years.  building my spreadsheets was key to keeping a clear head in my non-perfect marriage.

good luck!

Nothing to do with relationships, but everyone is different and a diet that works for one person might be hell/unpleasant/not work for another person. What are good guidelines: reduce empty calories (sugar/sweeteners, alcohol, junk and fast food), increase produce and whole grains, watch your overall caloric intake AND making sure you include physical activity most days. There is no such thing as a perfect diet, just more or less optimal diets.

This. Iíve lost 14 lbs in the last 3 months (from 130 to 116 lbs at 5 feet tall, with a goal of 110 lbs) with strict calorie counting and no other restrictions. Todayís menu, which is fairly normal for me, includes 2 corn tortillas, a half-cup of brown rice, and a glass of wine. For me, I found keto to be expensive and unsustainable. Someone elseís mileage may vary.

albireo13

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
  • Location: New England
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #196 on: August 29, 2018, 05:09:25 AM »
Just a few thoughts ...

1. has she been making an honest effort at paying down the debt over time, or just ignoring it?
   If ignoring it .... red flag!

2. Her putting a 1 week deadline on you to make a decision is a bit manipulative and passive-aggressive, IMO.      Red flag!
  Shouldering that much debt is a life-altering decision and one you need time to wrap your head around.
  What's the rush??

3. Not being honest about the debt for 2 years is not "a mistake"   ... it's a mistake made every day for 2 years ... 730 mistakes!
  Hiding it from you is a character flaw, IMO.   Red flag!

  I would think long and hard before tying the knot.   After 5+ years of marriage, after the blush is off the rose, such debt will loom large and be the "white elephant" in the room.
Could your relationship handle that?

   Before tying the knot you should get together and figure out how you can both pay down the debt.  What's the strategy?   If you come up with something that is doable, and you both agree on, then that's a huge step forward.   Don't make any marriage plans until you do so.

Just my $0.02  ....

   

Cranky

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1753
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #197 on: August 29, 2018, 05:40:04 AM »
I am skeptical of the response to those who are bothered that his SO's weight (which, based on his words, seem to be related to a lack of effort and not medical/genetic issues) and tidiness are an issue for OP.

They're dating - these are legitimate things for any man or woman to consider when thinking about marriage. It's a compatibility issue. Fitness, tidiness, financial responsibility - these habits often go together. Someone who is low in these areas will probably be happier with someone else who is low in these areas and vice versa.

I suspect a lot of these people and larger-sized and untidy themselves, so of course it's outrageous to suggest those things make a person undesirable :)

I think the issue isn't whether she's really fat or not - I know quite a number of people who are really fat and happily married to people who love how they look. Being really fat may be a long term health issue, but it's no barrier to a happy marriage or a great life, in terms of your looks.

What *is* an issue is that a mere two years into the relationship, the OP is critical of how she looks and evidently believes that she should just try harder to look the way he prefers. That bodes poorly for the future, IMO.

(I am a small and tidy person, myself.)

Pigeon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1199
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #198 on: August 29, 2018, 06:37:41 AM »
It doesn't sound to me like OP is really crazy in love with this woman, to the point where he'd want to spend the rest of his life with her, with all the ups and downs that inevitably entails.  If I were the woman, I'd want to know that and move on.

Cpa Cat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
Re: Discovered dear GF has $211,000 in student loans
« Reply #199 on: August 29, 2018, 06:46:37 AM »
Here's what I would offer:

You do not get married right now.

She seeks out a new, higher paying job (not in public service - ditch that idea). You two try to live on only your income during that two years and ALL of her after tax income goes to her debt.

After two years, get married and have kids if you want to. Debt is probably still high but lots of progress is made. She needs to keep working when you have kids so that debt is paid off in a reasonable time frame.


If the answer is no, that the ultimatum stands: she wants to be married now and having kids now, despite the giant debt, then my advice is to walk away.  Postponing two years is not unreasonable given the size of the debt and the lack of transparency. Living off your income alone is a "we're in this together" kind of move that benefits her and moves your relationship forward. If she can't accept that, then it's not a good foundation for a marriage.