Vacations and rate of saving

[moustacheverte]

Hi,

We are currently saving about 50% of our income per month. If everything else stays the same, we are on track to retire in 8-9 years.

But we almost never go anywhere for vacations.

We are not from here and all our family leaves in different countries in Europe. A plane ticket to Europe is around 600-1200$ (depending on the season). Going anywhere else also costs around 1000$ for airfare only because one of us can't get a tourist visa to the US so we have to take direct flights.

After accommodation, flights and food, going away for a week would cost 2-3k for the both of us. We have a hard time justifying the cost but as a result, we never go anywhere.

Canada is a big country, we'd like to visit Vancouver but after our calculations it would cost about 1500$ for both of us for a week. It's less than international vacations but it's still a lot of money for a week away.

We visited the next largest town several times and don't want to go there again.

Whenever we are looking at going somewhere it's either too far to be done on a weekend or more than we'd like to pay for a week. We don't own a car so anywhere we want to go we have to rent one, fly or buy train/bus tickets.

It feels odd that even though we are saving so much we feel uncomfortable spending for vacations. What is wrong with us? How do you all do it? What is your budget for a week of vacations relative to the amount you save monthly?

Thanks,

[Bucksandreds]

If its just a few days don't spend a lot and do things close by.  You live in nearly the extreme NE of North America so distance (therefore flight cost) will be a lot.  We try to do one less expensive decent trip (Maybe 5-7 days) in a driving distance or short (cheap) flight location per year. (Maybe $800-$1000 for entire trip).  An example for you would be Boston or NYC or DC or Toronto. Then another week or longer trip in a more exotic locale such as the Caribbean or Europe or Mexico. (maybe $2000-$3000 for entire trip)  We also use airline points to cut deep into those stated costs.  2 years ago we did a 9 day Caribbean cruise that went to the Northern tip of South America as well as well as a week in Florida during the winter and spent maybe $2500 total.  We got flights to Florida on points and paying for the cruise gets you room, food and transportation included.  As for hotels we'd stay in places like Hilton Garden or Ramadas or Sheratons and not places like the Ritz, etc.  Playing the points for flights game and never splurging for luxury accommodation make for reasonable world travel.

[jorjor]

We like to travel. We've built vacation expenses into future needs for retirement, and are aiming for a number that allows for those type of discretionary expenses. Will that take longer? Yes, it will. Retiring early wouldn't be nearly as fulfilling for us if we weren't able to do those types of things, within reason (as defined by us, and no one else).

[Endersmom]

If you took a trip to Vancouver and spent $1500 how much does this reduce your savings by for the year % wise? Is it a small enough amount that you would be ok saving that % less. How much longer would you have to work if you spent $3000 a year or every other year on holidays.

[Gone Fishing]

We've gotten mostly into a pattern where we alternate lower budget camping vacations with fancier vacations that may include air travel every other year.  To me, visiting family is about as important as it comes.  If I moved to Europe, I'd probably consider a trip back to the US to visit friends and family just part of the cost of living and working abroad.

I love hunting and fishing for which Canada would seem ideal.   

[icemodeled]

Sometimes you can justify an expense, in this case a trip to see family and since you never take vacations, it's not like it's an all the time thing. We save extra money in a vacation fund. I love to travel, it's a passion of mine. My husband enjoys it to, but not as much as me. If we could, we would travel full time.

Can you cut out eating out costs? Or limit it to once or twice at a affordable restaurant? Try to stick with meals that you can make in the hotel like sandwiches. Eating out is a big cost on vacation. The flight and hotel stay is almost unavoidable though. That can add up fast.

We took 4 vacations this year! Normally we budget for just 2. Next year we plan not to take any, except day trips or maybe one overnight trip. We flew twice(got a bargain!) and drove twice. Driving certainly helps to cut costs as we didn't have to rent a car or fly. One trip was a weekend thing for our anniversary. It cost only $150 total with meals. Another 1 week trip we flew to the Grand Canyon which cost total of $1500 with meals/hotel/flight and car. 1 week trip was to FL, house hunting, and it was around $1000 total. Also a week. We usually check tripadvisor for good ratings but most affordable hotels. Sometimes our cash back rewards we get for our credit cards helps out with vacations. For the FL trip we only ate out a couple times and tried to stay low budget. Again, this isn't normal year for us, we certainly did more then we should of but its something I love.

Really, if it doesn't put a dent in your savings drastically and you can do all you can to keep costs cheap, I'd say to do it. Plan a nice week vacation and visit family if you wish. Or even 5 days. It is good to get away and enjoy.

[SilveradoBojangles]

I think you should be able to swing the odd vacation if you want them. Remember, the whole mustachian ethos is about putting your money where it makes you happiest. We have travel as a line item in our monthly budget. Only you know your particular circumstances, but would setting aside $200 or $250 a month for vacations drastically impact your FI time? You don't have to take a major vacation every year, meaning that in some years you do something low key/less expensive (road trip, camping, cabin in a nice spot), and in other years you have the funds available to go big (whatever that means to you).

Also, there are ways to reduce your travel expenses. After a couple of years of using a credit card with a good mileage card you should have enough miles for at least one round trip to Europe. Since 2008 we have put every possible expense on our credit card (and pay it off each month), and have gotten 2 mileage tickets to Brazil, 2 to Vietnam, and 5 tickets to Europe (though some of our miles were earned from flying). You could consider visiting family during off peak times when flights cost less, or keeping an eye on flight prices so you can jump on deals when they are available. Can you stay with family or friends for part of the time? Can you stay in a place with kitchen access so you can cook some meals? We have found airbnb to have much more competitive rates than hotels, and we usually rent a place with a kitchen.

[pachnik]

I'm in my early 50's and a recent experience has changed my view on travel. 

My closest friend became very mentally ill about 1 1/2 years ago and hasn't been responding to treatment.  She may never be the same again and is in and out of the hospital psych ward (mostly in).   Obviously, the older you get, the more can go wrong with your health.  I don't want to wait to take a big trip anymore.  In 2014, my husband and I went to Montreal to visit his mom and in 2016, we are going to London and Paris.  But in the year between, we stay local. 

I think putting it off is okay if you are young because you probably have decades of health ahead of you.   When you are in your 50's and 60's, maybe not.  Also, travel may not be important to you.   So there's that to consider too.   

I currently save 35-40% of my income.

[moustacheverte]

You all make good points, thank you for your answers.

It helped me realize we might need to review our budget. We have a very low COL thanks to never eating out and still living on a student's budget not too long ago. But our circumstances have changed and we now earn considerably more than what we used to so we might need to make some adjustments.

We'll have a talk tonight to see how we can change the budget and make vacations a monthly line item, saved to a separate account (i.e. not invested).

Spending 3k a year on vacations would let us have a nice holiday and only cost less than 5% of our current yearly net income. It would have been insane not too long ago but not so much anymore when you put it into perspective like that. I guess we're still stuck with the old numbers in our head.

[redcedar]

We budget about 2% of our after tax income towards vacations.  We fit 3-4 vacations into that budget. However, we benefit from three things:

We are very very lucky that we live a handful of hours from the beach and the mountains so the vast majority or vacations avoid any airfare.

We also benefit from both of our parents having access to beach places so we don't often pay for housing for an annual beach trip.

I travel about 5-7 times a year for work so we can get a free flight every now and then and 2-3 free hotel nights each year.


I am researching some flight and hotel point credit card bonuses for 2016. Far from churning so maybe novice churning light. I am hopeful the I can double my free flight and hotel nights. Not a huge goal but hey every little bit helps, right?

[Albert]

On average I spend about 10% of after tax income on vacation travel. I like traveling a lot and all my family lives far away. It's just a cost living and I save/invest 40-50% anyway.  Delayed gratification is fine, but I also want to live a good life right now.

[arebelspy]

How do you all do it?

Recently: Travel hacking.  IDK how much of that is available to you in Canada though, but it's gotten us about 20 free flights over the past year 1/2 or so.

Before that: Just finding cheap flights and accommodations.

[RFAAOATB]

I plan on putting $400 a month aside for a $6000 trip in 2017.  ($100*2 people*2 paychecks for month for 15 months)  I want to spend the money on first class flights and train tickets which is about half the budget.  If some cash flow problems come up next year I might have to settle for economy air.

Plan your vacation and put aside money for it.  Once the money is in that account feel free to spend it.  I'm trying to get up to a yearly vacation plan and hope I can keep that budget going.

[JLR]

We plan our holidays based around opportunities that come up. We might go years without a decent holiday then do something like 5 week through the Middle East and Europe, like we did this year. Next year we are thinking about taking the kids to visit my Dad in another state, but may not manage a holiday at all, depending on my husband's work schedule.

Do you need a visa to the US if you are just transiting through? Are you able to arrange a flight where you don't need to leave the airport, just change planes, perhaps?

[okits]

Travel is allocated $6k a year, but we honestly go as necessity dictates (elder care) or as a good opportunity comes up.  There's always a limiting factor (vacation time, kid, health) so I don't think we actually spend $6k/year, but I'd have no problem if we did.  The kind of enjoyment vacations bring us (anticipation, experience, memories) is worth the cost, to us.

Though flying together would be ideal, would you consider flying separately (so one could connect via the U.S.?) If the savings are there it may be worth doing.  Even when flying with a companion so much time on the flight is kind of solitary (sleeping, reading, watching movies) being solo might not feel lonely.

For the one of you needing a visa for the U.S., can you start the process to get it?  I know it's a slog, not free, and approval is not guaranteed, but if granted it's good for several years and would open the door to nearby, inexpensive holidays (road trip across the border) and enable you to both fly via the U.S. (possibly less-expensive flights.)

[moustacheverte]

Re US visa: They require you get a visa even to connect flights because US airports are made in such a way that even for a connecting flight you could walk out the airport and stay in the US. There is no "international" zone like in the rest of the world. Why is beyond me. We tried to get a visa twice (250$ a pop) and were denied after a 3 minutes interview and 2 questions. We still have no idea why they said no and it's likely they will keep saying no since they denied twice already. This is infuriating but there isn't much we can do and so holidays in the US are out of question.

[pbkmaine]

Do you need a visa to drive into the US? There are some great places driving distance from Montreal - New York City can be reached in a day, and the drive through the Adirondacks is lovely. Then there's all of New England.


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[boarder42]

Re US visa: They require you get a visa even to connect flights because US airports are made in such a way that even for a connecting flight you could walk out the airport and stay in the US. There is no "international" zone like in the rest of the world. Why is beyond me. We tried to get a visa twice (250$ a pop) and were denied after a 3 minutes interview and 2 questions. We still have no idea why they said no and it's likely they will keep saying no since they denied twice already. This is infuriating but there isn't much we can do and so holidays in the US are out of question.

there are international zones just not for flights to and from canada.  when you fly in from europe you go thru customs before getting on a domestic plane.

[okits]

Re US visa: They require you get a visa even to connect flights because US airports are made in such a way that even for a connecting flight you could walk out the airport and stay in the US. There is no "international" zone like in the rest of the world. Why is beyond me. We tried to get a visa twice (250$ a pop) and were denied after a 3 minutes interview and 2 questions. We still have no idea why they said no and it's likely they will keep saying no since they denied twice already. This is infuriating but there isn't much we can do and so holidays in the US are out of question.

Wow, that super sucks, I am sorry.  :(  Montreal should still be a decent gateway to Europe and the Caribbean, and the Maritimes are a close option (and in $CAD, too.)

[Altons Bobs]

You definitely want to have a balance in your life, it's no fun living in deprivation. Vacation is our getaway, regardless of how little or how much we make.

[Midcenturymater]

We are in a similar situation.
We have not been back to the UK for 6 years. We can't justify the 5_7 k cost. We don't have that spare each year.


So

We have family visit us...cheaper as they are not a family of 4 and they can visit outside school holidays so access more economical flights.

We plan on a trip two years from now when we will spend at least a month in the UK. We will try and find an airline credit card to get air miles.

We will then rent our home on airbnb to fund the rental we will have to pay for in the UK.

I'm the meantime we budget $1300 a year for our family vacation and cheap meals out. So we usually try not to spend too much on accommodation and we always drive and self cater. We have had amazing holidays and seen so much of our state and neighbouring g states within 5 hours drive.
Now we bought a house that budget has been cut to $500 for the year. So we will camp for $25 a night or do a homeswap. If we can't drive there we don't go there. Not been on a plane in 6 years. But we live in a compact state with lots to see in it so that makes it easier to be excited about seeing and getting to new,places quickly.

[flyingaway]

Do you want to have vacations in retirement? If not, I don't see any problem of saving money and not spending in on vacations. Different people like to do different things.

For us, we like to spend money on vacations before retirement and do not want to postpone the good time to retirement.

[LAGuy]

One thing you should consider is the credit card reward sign up game. Plenty of guides on the Internet. And if you only want to travel like once a year, it's pretty easy to get by with only opening one or two cards a year to get free plane tickets at the least. Some people go all in and get free hotel rooms too, but I don't usually bother beyond the free plane tickets and otherwise just get inexpensive accomodations. You can easily travel for two weeks for less than $1k a person total.

[JJNL]

I would say it all depends on your priorities. I LOVE to travel, and am willing to work quite a few extra years until FIRE if that means I can travel a lot in the mean time. It's basically what makes me happy. Also, travelling would be my go-to FIRE activity. So for me, it makes very little sense to cut vacations to zero, as it would make me deeply unhappy. Not worth it. I am trying to keep costs down by doing the following:
- only taking an expensive vacation (e.g. South Africa, USA, Canada, New Zealand) once every few years
- going camping whenever possible
- cooking a lot of my own meals while I travel
- guiding trips for friends and for a volunteer organisation, for which I don't have to pay my own travelling costs. I.e. do scut work organising and guiding in exchange for a free holiday.

Other things you could do to keep costs down:
- go house-sitting for somebody or do a home exchange;
- go WWOOF-ing (i.e. work on an organic farm for room and board)
- a lot of hostels allow you to work a few hours a day for room and board as well
- use services like AirBNB - much cheaper than a hotel and you get to stay with a local
- for car rentals: try to find a deal on a car that needs driving back in the opposite direction you're travelling in. E.g. across Canada. Or from Southern Island to Northern Island on New Zealand.
- hitchhike together instead of driving - as a couple it's not actually that dangerous. I've done it loads of times in Canada (I used to have a Canadian boyfriend).