Furnace service - should we use home warranty for it?

[jeromedawg]

Hi all,

So we recently had issues with our super old furnace going out. I was able to 'salvage' it by cleaning off the flame sensor and ignitor. Not sure which was causing problems but after using the "dollar bill trick" to wipe and 'clean' off the tips of both, the furnace magically lit back up. That said, I still think we need to do service/maintenance on the furnace. Since we bought the home, we got 1yr of home warranty (enhanced) on it through Fidelity National Warranty as part of the sale contract.  Already, I missed out on a couple opportunities to use it (supply line leak and broken garage door spring the inspector missed), which likely would have saved us hundreds.

Anyway, they do cover service/maintenance of HVAC equipment but you of course have to pay the $75 service fee. We have an HVAC guy who I've gotten a couple free quotes from to replace the system here as well as the last place we fell out of escrow on. He has good reviews and is trustworthy and helpful (as I've had other related questions I've asked him recently). He charges $89. I'm inclined to go with him because I'm familiar but at the same time it feels like a waste not to use home warranty. But I've also heard a lot of *bad* things about home warranty too - I could pay someone from home warranty to come out and not being much better off.


For larger/expensive repairs (like where the furnace is completely dead, etc) I would of course want to try to get home warranty involved but I'm not so sure with things like service calls on a super old unit that's still apparently functional but seems like it might be on it's last legs.

What do you guys think?

EDIT: a lot of guys at HVAC talk seem to have a strong dislike for home warranties - "Having your home warranty company out for tuneups is a joke. They are they just to get in and out, quickly as possible, and collect the money for the tuneup. They are not there to find a bad heat exchanger, which you most probably have."

[sonofsven]

I'd go with the guy you already talked to. Who knows what you'll get through the warranty company, it's a crap shoot.

[moneypitfeeder]

We had a warranty when we bought our current home and put in a claim on the boiler power vent. The person they sent was terrible. I was a mechanic (albeit helicopter) by trade, so I know a little bit about how machines work. Guy wouldn't touch the vent, insisted it was the control module, replaced that (still didn't work), miswired it, which burnt my thermostat upstairs, left and refused to come back. The owner came out after we threatened to call the warranty company and he replaced the dead power vent and bought us a new thermostat. The boiler has worked fine since. Still have the original, expensive control module if I ever need to swap it out. IMHO it is best to get a furnace repairperson you trust and work with them directly.

[lhamo]

Dude. 

You REALLY need to stop wasting your time and energy thinking (much less writing) about this kind of stuff.

It is a $15 difference.   If you have any concerns, go with the guy you know and trust.

You bought a $1mill+ house.  You are not poor.  Stop thinking/acting like it.

[jeromedawg]

Dude. 

You REALLY need to stop wasting your time and energy thinking (much less writing) about this kind of stuff.

It is a $15 difference.   If you have any concerns, go with the guy you know and trust.

You bought a $1mill+ house.  You are not poor.  Stop thinking/acting like it.

It's not about saving $15 - it's about leveraging the home warranty in case there's a bigger problem than just yearly maintenance/service (e.g. something that warrants replacing the furnace). This is an old furnace on the verge of breaking down. It already stopped working on me last week before I 'revived' it.
However, based on what I've been hearing about home warranty, it's highly doubtful (or at least a gamble) as to whether they're going to find [or try to find] anything wrong with it let alone replace it (which was my initial thought or hope vs spending $5k+ on a new furnace once this thing finally breaks down...).

Anyway, I'm planning just to have the guy I've worked with come out at this point.

EDIT: maybe I should have just asked a more general question on feedback and experiences about home warranties... there are other things I've considered using it for but just haven't because I've heard too many bad things about them. It just feels like a waste to *not* use it given that we have the resource. I guess I could ask it another way: "When or for what would you use a home warranty [assuming it was part of a new home purchase]?"

[cchrissyy]

there are other things I've considered using it for but just haven't because I've heard too many bad things about them. It just feels like a waste to *not* use it given that we have the resource. I guess I could ask it another way: "When or for what would you use a home warranty [assuming it was part of a new home purchase]?"

i think you're looking at it backwards. the answer to how to get value out of the warranty and when to use it is, no. stop. the whole thing is a cheap illusion to ease your nerves during the sales process. there is no actual value there. any time spent trying to get value from it now is time wasted. any solution they may provide you, if they somehow did give you service and not weasel out of it, would be a regrettably substandard solution.

sorry but that's my understanding of warranties. tear up the paper. pretend it never existed. and do what LHAMO says and just call whoever you would call if you weren't distracted by the idea of extra value out there.

[Paper Chaser]

Obviously I don't know the specifics of your warranty, but why did you fix the broken HVAC yourself when you have a warranty? I'd think the time to use the home warranty would've been when the HVAC stopped working completely a few days ago. Large expenses (like replacement of an HVAC unit that doesn't work) are worth fighting the home warranty company over. Things under $250 I wouldn't bother.

[stoaX]

Regarding home warranties in general:

I would not buy a home warranty for myself, but it did pay off for me when I brought a house several years ago. The purchase price included a home warranty.  The house developed 2 separate slab leaks the first year I was there. The home warranty paid out in excess of $2k USD.  There were 2 other issues I used the warranty for and the tradesmen that they contracted with were all fine,

The only other house that had a warranty had no problems so I never used it.

[jeromedawg]

Obviously I don't know the specifics of your warranty, but why did you fix the broken HVAC yourself when you have a warranty? I'd think the time to use the home warranty would've been when the HVAC stopped working completely a few days ago. Large expenses (like replacement of an HVAC unit that doesn't work) are worth fighting the home warranty company over. Things under $250 I wouldn't bother.

Mostly because it has been colder and we didn't want to be without heat for who knows who long before home warranty would have sent someone out. I was just researching and someone at Bogleheads suggested to try cleaning off the flame sensor before anything else - I figured that's easy enough to try so I did and it worked. But I see your point too - summon them when it stops working. The thing is, the furnace fan/blower element was working fine - I ran the AC and it engaged so I'm pretty sure whoever they would have sent would have diagnosed it as not completely broken (or not... who knows lol). Per several guys now at HVAC talk, they're saying home warranty programs are terrible and do I really want to risk leaving the furnace in a potentially worse state than it already is? One of them thinks the heat exchanger might be going bad on my unit and it's worth having a tech I trust come look at it versus home warranty (who will want to do the bare minimum)... I don't know, it really feels like "flip a coin" with home warranty based on everything I'm hearing. Anyway, I'm having our *trusted* HVAC guy come out to do a tune-up/service on the unit so will ask him about the potential heat exchanger concern and anything else.

[jeromedawg]

Regarding home warranties in general:

I would not buy a home warranty for myself, but it did pay off for me when I brought a house several years ago. The purchase price included a home warranty.  The house developed 2 separate slab leaks the first year I was there. The home warranty paid out in excess of $2k USD.  There were 2 other issues I used the warranty for and the tradesmen that they contracted with were all fine,

The only other house that had a warranty had no problems so I never used it.

Yes, I do hear these stories - it really sounds like a YMMV thing. Anecdotally, I hear more horror stories than I do success stories.

[affordablehousing]

You know I'm very much in Lhamo's camp and think a condo was more fitting for your situation, but since I've had a bunch of experience with them, I'll add that the only point of home warranty's are to replace REALLY broken things. There is no point to have them do "maintenance" on your furnace, i.e. wear a blue jumpsuit, hem and haw and say it's fine. And you're out some money for the copay. To really make use of it, you have to decide, and read between the lines, that the furance is REALLY broken. Like, somehow a sledgehammer fell inside of it and whacked a hole in the heat exchanger. Then you may convince the home warranty mechanic to put in a new furnace. Then again, they may accuse you of damage. Then again, you may now be sitting with a busted furnace for months while they order a new one. Or, you may want to look for a used broken furnace, put that in yourself, then have them inspect the broken one, and then come and put in a new one, knowing you can put the perfectly fine one back in if they notice your fraud. Then you can have the joy of throwing out two old furnaces. Do note though that for any installations like that, they do charge you directly undiscounted for any things "not to code" which they will invariably find. Also, you will want a modern high efficiency furnace and they will charge you through the nose to "upgrade" to what really costs just a couple hundred more.

Yup, home warranties are a joke. Your furnace honestly, sounds just fine if it is now working. Probably a good time to focus on other projects.

[Sibley]

Unless you're going to be able to get the home warranty to pay for a new furnace and installation, give up on it.

[jeromedawg]

Had our tech out. He said the heat exchanger looks really bad in one spot and it's only a matter of time before it fully cracks and develops leaks. This is bad because it can potentially leak carbon monoxide into the ventilation system. The furnace will still operate but you won't know something is wrong until the carbon monoxide detectors go off (assuming they're functioning). I doubt home warranty will cover this either.

If we replace the furnace, we should replace the AC since it's around the same age (both units are from the 80s lol). And he was saying we should consider replacing the ductwork too since the jacket is tearing off and exposing the insulation (so loss of efficiency). The ducting isn't *as* important but something to keep in mind. All in all, it's going to be a $10k cost + $3k-4k for the ductwork.

[cchrissyy]

i did a very similar replacement last month.
1980s 1-stage furnace and 1940s ductwork, replaced with 2-stage and new ductwork up to code. still 80%, still 1 zone, still no AC. i paid a little more than your quote but it was the best price and speed i could find, and it was from a vendor I'd used before at a different house, who pulls permits and does things right, and we had no heat there for a while so i am entirely glad about how it worked out.

[jeromedawg]

i did a very similar replacement last month.
1980s 1-stage furnace and 1940s ductwork, replaced with 2-stage and new ductwork up to code. still 80%, still 1 zone, still no AC. i paid a little more than your quote but it was the best price and speed i could find, and it was from a vendor I'd used before at a different house, who pulls permits and does things right, and we had no heat there for a while so i am entirely glad about how it worked out.

Thanks for sharing. I'm considering doing this sooner than later as I just saw an article pop up about supply chain problems bumping HVAC prices more than 80% - https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/supply-chain-problems-bump-hvac-prices-80-percent/277-a98b12a2-c120-45d5-b69e-b897e2c92a2d

*sigh*

I'm sure it's no coincidence Google fed that to me hours after the visit from the HVAC tech, where he was discussing the increase in prices....

[affordablehousing]

Perfect, then bang on that one spot til the exchanger cracks and then have the home warranty place at leasat pay for the furnace unit. That should at least save you some bucks.

https://www.alpinehomeair.com/product/furnaces-heaters/forced-air/natural-gas-lp/blueridge/bg952uh070bv12

[jeromedawg]

Quick update but the problems started back up with the furnace and I ended up having the gas company come out to do a safety check. They red-tagged the furnace for not properly venting and also noted that it has "inoperative electrical system" (due to it functioning weirdly with cycling and not consistently turning on) without providing more specifics. In short, the furnace has been 'officially' deemed inoperable per the gas company.

I went ahead and started a claim through home warranty and they just assigned the service provider - I looked them up and most of their recent reviews are 1-star complaints (many of these related to home warranty calls) with a few 4-5 star reviews here and there (https://www.yelp.com/biz/relaxed-heating-and-air-los-angeles). If it sounds like a bad idea I can still cancel before having them dispatched, and should be able to get the service call fee credited back. My intention with this was to at least try to find out who the service provider would be so I could vet/research them ahead of time. Based on the reviews I've read, it still seems quite risky having them come out and expecting that they'll replace the furnace without it being a PITA.