Should we move?

[pnw_guy]

This is related to my post a couple of weeks ago. My wife and I live in Seattle and recently bought a single family home in the past 2 years. We don't love it here and there are things we definitely don't like (traffic).

My question is whether we should move somewhere else. I know that's a vague question, but the context is we think we could live somewhere we're equally happy with and own a $400k house instead of an $800k house. Since we're pursuing FIRE, we're kind of leaning towards selling and moving to somewhere cheaper. However, we're hesitating somewhat because no place is perfect, right? We might just eventually find new complaints about wherever we move. And we'd probably reach FIRE even if don't move. Last point is we can both keep our jobs even if we move.

So has anybody made some similar choices about staying in vs leaving a HCOL area? What did you decide?

[lhamo]

I'm happy in Seattle but wouldn't mind trying some other places out eventually. Why not pick a few cities, line up furnished rentals, rent your place out and hit the road for a bit? If you don't find a place you like better you can come back.

[travel2020]

We are in the Seattle area as well. We like it here generally but think about moving at some point to cash in the home equity and jump start our FIRE. For us, weather is a big consideration in addition to the COL, and so far we haven’t come up with good options that works for both of us.

Between DW and I, we’ve lived in several places and traveled extensively so we have a good idea of what we do or don’t want in the next place. Even then, when we are ready and agree on some place, we will probably try a temporary move for several months and see whether we like it enough to move long term. Or maybe rent the house out for a while and check out several places over a year, and only then pull the trigger on selling the house.

So my suggestion is to make a list of what you want in a place and not just the LCOL, then try those places out to see how things look once you’ve been there for longer than a quick getaway.

[FINate]

As you point out, there is no perfect place. Which is another way of saying there's no "best" place to live in the general sense. Those "10 Best Places to Live" lists are mostly BS and largely reflect the values of the authors/editors.

My recommendation: Make a list of what you value and prioritize it. Relocating involves many trade-offs, so be very clear on deal breakers vs nice to haves. More non-negotiables means less flexibility, so choose carefully.

Cost of living is just another thing to prioritize. If LCOL means you can FIRE in the near future then this may be a must have, even if this means giving on lower priority things.

After you prioritize your list, you may find candidate cities/places that are potentially a better fit. Go exploring and see for yourself. Have fun with it.

Alternatively, you may discover that where you already live is the "best" fit for you. Nothing wrong with that, and better to find this out before making a big move that's likely to fail.

[Weisass]

I’m sitting here wondering about the time period. You bought a house two years ago, and you have already decided you don’t like it. I’m not gonna argue that point, but from a purely financial perspective, I wonder whether you will get back what you put in. From an emotional perspective, I wonder if it would make sense to slow down and resist reacting so quickly. Two years isn’t that long. It took at least that long for me to start making lasting connections in my neighborhood. I would encourage you to give yourself the space to really think about it, try a few options, and then, if you feel like you really need to move, go for it with zero reservations.

[lhamo]

I’m not gonna argue that point, but from a purely financial perspective, I wonder whether you will get back what you put in.

They are in the Seattle area.  Property values have gone insane here -- unless they paid way too much they will get back not only what they put in but a decent return on top of that.   I am guessing part of this is the "should we cash in now" factor at work.

[pnw_guy]

I’m not gonna argue that point, but from a purely financial perspective, I wonder whether you will get back what you put in.

They are in the Seattle area.  Property values have gone insane here -- unless they paid way too much they will get back not only what they put in but a decent return on top of that.   I am guessing part of this is the "should we cash in now" factor at work.

This. We have already - by pure luck of course - have gained substantial equity. We could walk away ahead right now and come out ahead.

Again, I acknowledge this was complete luck.

[pnw_guy]

I’m sitting here wondering about the time period. You bought a house two years ago, and you have already decided you don’t like it. I’m not gonna argue that point, but from a purely financial perspective, I wonder whether you will get back what you put in. From an emotional perspective, I wonder if it would make sense to slow down and resist reacting so quickly. Two years isn’t that long. It took at least that long for me to start making lasting connections in my neighborhood. I would encourage you to give yourself the space to really think about it, try a few options, and then, if you feel like you really need to move, go for it with zero reservations.

I generally like the "slow down" approach but I feel like we're just treading water right now. For example, we bought our house with plans of making a lot of improvements. I don't want to derail this thread, but one example is we really wanted to put AC in our house. But the uncertainty of what we want to do in the future means that we're not doing any of these things because we don't know if we'll get the money back if we sell.

Hope this example illustrates why we implicitly feel like we need to make a decision.

[dougules]

I'm going to be one more vote for finding a short term place to rent in whatever location sounds like the best candidate.  Stay there for a month-ish and see what you think.  Then the decision will probably be clearer.   

[nessness]

Well, you don't list any reasons to stay in Seattle other than that some other place could potentially be worse, so sure, why not?

Make a list of priorities in a city - weather, culture, proximity to loved ones, outdoor recreation opportunities, COL, etc. Then try to find a city that meets your criteria and go visit!

[lhamo]

If you can get a reasonable quote/installation time at the moment I would go ahead and put in the AC.  It is only going to become more and more of a selling point as time (and climate change) goes on.

We're probably only staying in our house a couple more years but I am thinking about getting a quote just because having it will make life much more pleasant.  And our furnace is really old and it might be worth it to just go ahead and put a heat pump in now.

[pnw_guy]

If you can get a reasonable quote/installation time at the moment I would go ahead and put in the AC.  It is only going to become more and more of a selling point as time (and climate change) goes on.

We're probably only staying in our house a couple more years but I am thinking about getting a quote just because having it will make life much more pleasant.  And our furnace is really old and it might be worth it to just go ahead and put a heat pump in now.

That's our current thinking at the moment. It will only become more necessary moving forward.

Will probably wait until October is so to avoid peak season prices.

[clarkfan1979]

Like others have said, no place is perfect. Except for San Diego. That place is actually perfect.

[pnw_guy]

Like others have said, no place is perfect. Except for San Diego. That place is actually perfect.

Except for also being expensive 😉

[legalstache]

What brought you to Seattle in the first place? Do those reasons still hold up?

My wife and I lived in Seattle for ~6 years. We eventually decided to relocate and created a shortlist of other cities in the PNW that we would consider. Both of our families are in the Seattle area, so we wanted to stay relatively close by.

If not for family and friends in Seattle, I'm sure we would have cast a broader net, as I can think of other parts of the country that I'd be okay with that are half the price.

[Glenstache]

I would condense it to deciding what you are running towards more than what you are running from (slowly, in Seattle traffic). I'm also in Seattle and have been burning out on it a bit. My personal love is more for region than the city. I would look for a smaller college town with a lower cost of living and good access to outdoor recreation. What would you run towards?

[lhamo]

What would you run towards?

Are we all going to trample each other on the way to Bellingham? ;)

[RunningintoFI]

I won't help you make the decision but I will say that flyover country is great! You can get a great house for 1/3 of your current value while also forgetting that traffic is even a thing and getting through airport security in 2 minutes or less!

That being said, I like not having traffic so please don't move here.  Seattle is great and has everything you could ever want ;) 

[jac941]

I would love to move to a lower cost of living area, so in a lot of ways I’m in the move camp. But, if you’re still on the path to fire and moving won’t get you that last bit of money you need to get over the top, I would recommend at least considering staying in the HCOLA for a bit longer, especially if you can take advantage of the job market.

We spend outlandish amounts of money compared to many of the case studies here, but we still have a phenomenal savings rate because we make an outlandish amount of money living in our HCOLA. Moving would not allow us the same opportunity for income. It’s getting better with remote opportunities, but we’re still not seeing those as competitive with the local salaries here. So just consider if you’re in the accumulation phase that you might be able to accumulate more rapidly if you stay.

But if that doesn’t apply to your situation, suck the equity out of the house and move someplace you like better!

[dougules]

We spend outlandish amounts of money compared to many of the case studies here, but we still have a phenomenal savings rate because we make an outlandish amount of money living in our HCOLA. Moving would not allow us the same opportunity for income. It’s getting better with remote opportunities, but we’re still not seeing those as competitive with the local salaries here. So just consider if you’re in the accumulation phase that you might be able to accumulate more rapidly if you stay.

COL is really relative to earning potential.  A lot of LCOL areas are actually HCOL when you adjust for income.  Of course remote work and FIRE change that, but while you're still working in a location specific job it applies. 

[ChpBstrd]

I'd be happy to trade my 3/2 house on a quarter acre in a great neighborhood within a 15 minute commute of my downtown and more natural trails than you can hike within 15 miles. No significant forest fires either!

The only catch is my state government just banned schools from mandating mask wearing in the middle of the pandemic, and now I have to send my unvaccinated kid into the middle of that. If we end up going $500k into medical debt trying to treat Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome I'll regret not buying an $800k house in the middle of a traffic jam where it always rains.

[pnw_guy]

What brought you to Seattle in the first place? Do those reasons still hold up?

My wife and I lived in Seattle for ~6 years. We eventually decided to relocate and created a shortlist of other cities in the PNW that we would consider. Both of our families are in the Seattle area, so we wanted to stay relatively close by.

If not for family and friends in Seattle, I'm sure we would have cast a broader net, as I can think of other parts of the country that I'd be okay with that are half the price.

We came to Seattle for work. And because we've been reclassified as remote workers, we're no longer tethered to the city like we were.

And not to sound old and grouchy, but Seattle has gotten worse as we've lived here (been here quite a while but only bought in the last 2 years).

We also have family in the broader area, so I can't imagine that we'll leave Washington.

[pnw_guy]

What would you run towards?

Are we all going to trample each other on the way to Bellingham? ;)

Exactly. Bellingham feels like the place to go, but it seems everyone else feels that way too!

Looking at home prices there, I'd say we've already missed the rush.

[pnw_guy]

I would love to move to a lower cost of living area, so in a lot of ways I’m in the move camp. But, if you’re still on the path to fire and moving won’t get you that last bit of money you need to get over the top, I would recommend at least considering staying in the HCOLA for a bit longer, especially if you can take advantage of the job market.

We spend outlandish amounts of money compared to many of the case studies here, but we still have a phenomenal savings rate because we make an outlandish amount of money living in our HCOLA. Moving would not allow us the same opportunity for income. It’s getting better with remote opportunities, but we’re still not seeing those as competitive with the local salaries here. So just consider if you’re in the accumulation phase that you might be able to accumulate more rapidly if you stay.

But if that doesn’t apply to your situation, suck the equity out of the house and move someplace you like better!

Yeah, we're speeding towards fire pretty quickly. We fortunately have good jobs and invest about $140K per year in index funds currently.

Fortunately, we can keep our high paying jobs even if we move since we've been permanently reclassified as remote workers.

[pnw_guy]

I'd be happy to trade my 3/2 house on a quarter acre in a great neighborhood within a 15 minute commute of my downtown and more natural trails than you can hike within 15 miles. No significant forest fires either!

The only catch is my state government just banned schools from mandating mask wearing in the middle of the pandemic, and now I have to send my unvaccinated kid into the middle of that. If we end up going $500k into medical debt trying to treat Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome I'll regret not buying an $800k house in the middle of a traffic jam where it always rains.

Your place sounds exactly like what we're dreaming of, though you make some good points about the downsides. For this exact reason, if we relocate we'll try and end up in Washington state and in a town that's smaller but still liberal.

I don't know if anyone has been or heard of Northampton, Massachusetts, but the Washington state version of that town sounds like paradise.

[pnw_guy]

What would you run towards?

Are we all going to trample each other on the way to Bellingham? ;)

I will be bringing all the Californians - the Southern Californians (we are the worst) ;-)!

I do love Bellingham and most of western washington state but I've found that, for me (and now for SO) it has been hard to break from family, long term friends, and activities to move elsewhere even when hitting FIRE. So that's something for the OP to consider if they plan to move far away. Im still looking myself (and BF and I recently sold our respective places so free to wander) but seem to keep coming back here. Mainly Im posting to follow.

Oh no! The dreaded Californians!

We have no plans of leaving Washington state so we don't plan on getting too far from family.

[iris lily]

Like others have said, no place is perfect. Except for San Diego. That place is actually perfect.

unfortunately, it is in California.

I was pretty impressed with my own neighborhood when someone who was a mover and shaker in the 70’s here and who later moved to .San Diego’,  moved back here to retire. Good choice.

[Jenny Wren]

What would you run towards?

Are we all going to trample each other on the way to Bellingham? ;)

Nooooo! We're out of room!!!! ;)

[pnw_guy]

What would you run towards?

Are we all going to trample each other on the way to Bellingham? ;)

Nooooo! We're out of room!!!! ;)

I hope not! If I had to pack up and sell our house tomorrow, that's where I'd head to :)

[pnw_guy]

OP here.

We've recently learned that we could rent out our Seattle house and fully cover the PIMI. While we'd still need to pay for maintenance out of pocket, if we rented it we could try out some new locations via renting while still having the flexibility of returning to our Seattle house in case we realize that leaving was a mistake.