Author Topic: Frustration with Spendthrifts  (Read 30448 times)

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Frustration with Spendthrifts
« on: February 16, 2013, 06:36:51 AM »
Another thread allowed me to vent a bit about my current frustration, so then I thought posting it here might provide me with some ideas, so thank you in advance.

In my life there are a number of people who don't seem to "get" that what they think I can afford and what I can afford are not the same.  I do not make a lot of money ($63K/year), but it's a lot compared to many of my friends and family members.  Ironically, many of these people are frugal because they need to exist on lower incomes.  They are aware of my salary because I am a public sector worker and my salary has been splashed all over the place thanks to political bullshit going on in Ontario right now.

Things I'm frustrated about are: 

My mother assumes that because "you make all that money," I am able to pay $100+ for the buffet for her and my dependents for her birthday celebration.  I had been intending to hold a cheaper celebration at my house where I did the cooking.  When she said she really wanted to go out for buffet, my brother changed the plans and suddenly I was stuck with the bill.  My sister, who also makes about what I do, was similarly frustrated.  No matter how many times I tell my mother that it might seem like I make a lot of money, I have many expenses and want to save so that I can pay off my house and retire in 5.5 years, she doesn't get it. 

My boyfriend is making me a bit nuts because he doesn't see that neither one of us can afford so many dinners out and so many bottles of wine.  His income has taken a big hit this year (decreased by more than half), he seems depressed at times, and doesn't seem to get that he can't afford things like he used to.  While I refuse to pick of the slack, my continual refrain is "I can't afford that.  I can't afford that."  I guess it's just a good thing we don't live together.

My son lost a textbook, the lock to his locker, and two calculators last semester at school.  He has special needs and a lack of organization is part of his problems.  I had to pay for the textbook which meant that I had to put off buying him new athletic shoes until I get paid at the end of February.  He also needs to do chores around the house to make up for the money that was squandered.  I wanted him to understand that when you are careless about things, you have responsibility, and sometimes that means putting off getting new stuff.  He has a pair of athletic shoes that are ending their useful lives but will still be good beyond the end of February, but he's been complaining that he can't do well on "beep tests" because of those shoes.  I told him to suck it up and that I couldn't afford to replace both the textbook and his shoes and he'd have newer shoes if he had been more responsible.

I don't know what he said to his gym teacher (who is a friend of my boyfriend's), but he came home with a pair of used but good condition shoes that the Phys Ed department has for kids who can't afford decent athletic shoes.  Gah!  Gym teacher is a colleague of mine and has a heart of gold.  But Jeez.  My son could have waited until the end of February.

I have explained and explained to the people in my life that I can't afford to do what they want many times.  Why are they not getting it?  Maybe by giving in and paying for that buffet I sent the wrong message.  It meant I had to seriously cut back in other areas to afford it and I really did resent that, but I did give in that time.  I won't next time.  I don't give in the other times, but still people aren't getting it.

And I am so sick of saying "I can't afford it" over and over and over.

How does everyone manage to deal with others who don't get that while it might seem like we can afford it, we either don't want to or can't?

Thanks.


sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2417
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 07:10:48 AM »
Aha ha ha!  That story about your son.  I don't have kids so my advice is probably not relevant, but I think you should explain to the gym teacher that your son wasn't getting new shoes because of a lesson you were teaching him about personal responsibility and so he has to give them back.  Generally people don't want to step on parents' toes if they can help it.  (Or who knows, you might find out that the condition of his old shoes is really dire and the teacher is worried he'll injure himself.)  And your son should understand that he may have deprived someone who really needs those shoes just because he wanted something new and shiny.  But I applaud your son's lack of shame!  If his priorities change, he might become the greatest mustachian in the house!

Hee hee hee, I'm still laughing.  I think you made my morning, thanks, BPA.

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 07:16:38 AM »
:D  I was pretty mortified.  My son's shoes look fine to me, but maybe they aren't any good.   A lot of my colleagues got a good laugh about us getting the shoes.  I was thinking of giving money for the shoes to the Phys Ed department since my son has worn them for about a week now.  His gym teacher knows how tight things have been financially because of my boyfriend's employment situation.  He probably does think that we can't afford the shoes.  My students tell me that I somehow get myself into awkward situations.  This is just the latest one.


KMMK

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
    • Meena Kestirke Insurance
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2013, 07:24:02 AM »
You need to change your verbiage. Try "I don't want to spend money on (blank) right now." You don't have to go any further than that. Even if you were super rich you still have zero obligation to spend money in any of those situations you describe. I think one of the problems with "I can't afford it" is it implies you can't find five bucks to scrape together and you can't get another credit card because yours are already maxed out. The people around you know that is not the case. You do have money. You just chose to spend it on different things. Which is your right. "I can't" always gets people worked up. "I won't" or "I chose not to" works much better in my experience and is more honest.

BlueBeard

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2013, 08:04:16 AM »
You need to change your verbiage. Try "I don't want to spend money on (blank) right now." You don't have to go any further than that. Even if you were super rich you still have zero obligation to spend money in any of those situations you describe. I think one of the problems with "I can't afford it" is it implies you can't find five bucks to scrape together and you can't get another credit card because yours are already maxed out. The people around you know that is not the case. You do have money. You just chose to spend it on different things. Which is your right. "I can't" always gets people worked up. "I won't" or "I chose not to" works much better in my experience and is more honest.
I recently read the same advice in a book.  It is funny how a little verbiage creates entirely different emotions when you hear it.  "I choose to not waste money on eating out and would rather save for my future."
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 08:06:32 AM by BlueBeard »

unplugged

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 136
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2013, 08:04:48 AM »
The buffet situation sounds tuff. What if you just don't attend when they switch plans on you?  They can't make you pay if your not there. Is that too strong? With the boyfriend, can you sort of take over the date planning for a while? For years one of my children had his belongings stolen literally every day. It was like years and years of pranks.  For a while every purchase for him was bought (cheap) with the knowledge that it likely would have been stolen. Man am I glad that's over!

My kids are on board with our financial goals but when others are around I need a catch phrase. Last week I caught myself saying "we prefer to invest/save our $ instead of overpaying for stuff".

« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 08:06:35 AM by unplugged »

fuzzed

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 66
  • Location: SW Ontario Canada
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2013, 08:11:56 AM »
Just out of curiosity, have you ever watched "till debt do us part"?  If you have cable (we do, the previous owner of our home had it "hooked up" some way, but we have yet to receive a bill for it) , or you can watch it online, it is on slice.  If you are not familiar with the show, it is a real couple, from Ontario, which has money problems and the host comes in and tries to fix them.  Maybe, it might work for your family if they watched a few of those shoes.  The people on it are very typical, and maybe they may be able to see themselves in the show, realize their error of thinking, and make some changes.   We watch the show as a check against our progress.   Just a thought...
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 08:13:46 AM by fuzzed »

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2013, 08:25:49 AM »
You need to change your verbiage. Try "I don't want to spend money on (blank) right now." You don't have to go any further than that. Even if you were super rich you still have zero obligation to spend money in any of those situations you describe. I think one of the problems with "I can't afford it" is it implies you can't find five bucks to scrape together and you can't get another credit card because yours are already maxed out. The people around you know that is not the case. You do have money. You just chose to spend it on different things. Which is your right. "I can't" always gets people worked up. "I won't" or "I chose not to" works much better in my experience and is more honest.

That might work with my boyfriend, but I don't think it will work for my son (but too bad for him, I'm his mother :P), and I'm laughing at how passive aggressive my mother would get about that. 

But it might work with my boyfriend.  I think he is in denial about how bad the financial situation for him actually is and I think he needs to tell friends of his that he can't afford to spend money like he has in the past.

Thanks for the tip.

The buffet situation sounds tuff. What if you just don't attend when they switch plans on you?  They can't make you pay if your not there. Is that too strong? With the boyfriend, can you sort of take over the date planning for a while? For years one of my children had his belongings stolen literally every day. It was like years and years of pranks.  For a while every purchase for him was bought (cheap) with the knowledge that it likely would have been stolen. Man am I glad that's over!

My kids are on board with our financial goals but when others are around I need a catch phrase. Last week I caught myself saying "we prefer to invest/save our $ instead of overpaying for stuff".



That's a good line.  Thanks!  I think the thing with the buffet thing is that they don't get that I'm just paying for me and part of my mother, but for the kids too.  But I make "all that money" so my mother probably still wouldn't get it.  I could point out to her that when she was a single mother raising four kids, we didn't do pricey buffets. 

Just out of curiosity, have you ever watched "till debt do us part"?  If you have cable (we do, the previous owner of our home had it "hooked up" some way, but we have yet to receive a bill for it) , or you can watch it online, it is on slice.  If you are not familiar with the show, it is a real couple, from Ontario, which has money problems and the host comes in and tries to fix them.  Maybe, it might work for your family if they watched a few of those shoes.  The people on it are very typical, and maybe they may be able to see themselves in the show, realize their error of thinking, and make some changes.   We watch the show as a check against our progress.   Just a thought...

That might work for some people, but even my hitting them over the head with my forthright honest "I can't afford it" isn't getting through to them, but if I get pizzed enough to get passive aggressive, I would so do it.  :)  Maybe I'll just watch it for the entertainment value.  Thanks for the suggestion.

Deano

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2013, 09:08:38 AM »
It sounds as though you are a teacher ("my students"). I too am a teacher in Ontario and I think your experience, or a variation of it, is quite common. I'm very fortunate in that in my family/social circle, everyone makes as much or more than I do (all private sector workers), but I still get a little of the "well you're a teacher you can afford anything" crap. In particular, my next door neighbour, who, like all people with low sloping brows, hates teachers. The stuff that comes from his mouth when he is inebriated in his backyard would make a sailor blush, all directed towards public sector workers. Awkward. We are very aware that people watch what we drive, where we live and how we spend. There is a target on our backs.

As far as advice, with your boyfriend, you need to make him aware of your situation. At 63k a year, you don't take home an enormous amount of money. At that pay, about 600 goes towards a pension that is being reduced almost yearly (de-indexing now, payout will be reduced in coming years). Explain this to him. You may not want to totally open up the books for him, but letting him have just a little look may be beneficial. Beware your boyfriend taking advantage of you. If he wants to spend let him, just don't let him spend your money.

It may be worth it to factor in a small amount of money in your budget to share your good fortune with your family. Don't let it go beyond that amount (it may take 2 or 3 months to pay for a dinner out for example). If you are a teacher, your income will increase, though we're no longer 100% sure at what rate, many people won't see the kind of increases you will in your lifetime.

If you aren't a teacher, you won't see increases at all, but I think my other advice stands.

secondcor521

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5503
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Boise, Idaho
  • Big cattle, no hat.
    • Age of Eon - Overwatch player videos
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2013, 10:46:17 AM »
Normally I would probably sugarcoat this a bit more, and if I'm off base feel free to tell me to pound sand.

The problem here is that you are behaving in a way that leads others to believe that they are entitled to your money.  In my world, that is unacceptable behavior on their part.  If you decide this is an important enough problem to solve, you can fix it by behaving differently, which probably means changing your belief system about your money.

Perhaps a [modified] famous Eleanor Rooosevelt quote may help:  "No one can make you feel [like your money is theirs] without your consent."

If I had to guess I'd bet there is something in your childhood (probably from your mom, since you mention her in two different ways in your post) where you were taught that your stuff wasn't yours...maybe even that you were not entitled to have your own stuff and/or opinions.

Finally, I'm writing the above rather blunt stuff to try to be helpful.  For what it's worth, I've got similar things where I think my parents are wrong.  Lord love 'em, but they're wrong on some things.  And when they're your parents, and they love you and you love them, and in my case if they're smart and successful and popular, not to mention stubborn and in the declining years of their lives, broaching subjects and breaking patterns takes enormous care, clarity, thought, and purpose.  It's also really really hard, because I still try to make sure that they know that I still love and respect them as I disagree and decide to live my life differently.  I have done it successfully with them in a few very small areas, and I'm really glad I did.  There are other big areas that I'm still pondering over.

If you like to read self help books and don't mind some Christian religious stuff, the classic book here is "Boundaries", by Dr. Townshend.

Regards and good luck,

2Cor521

Self-employed-swami

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1090
  • Location: Canada
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2013, 11:15:49 AM »
Oh BPA, I sympathize with you!

As you know, my husband's family used to look at me, like I was an ATM, but with some careful discussions with them, they no longer ask for us to randomly pay for expensive things.  My MIL still makes comments about how we can afford things that we can't with our current financial goals (like more expensive vacations), but I just shake it off.  She is still spending money like it is going out of style (She recently bought two of my nieces plane tickets from France for the summer), but that's her choice, and she knows that we won't be bailing her out anymore because of it.

Would your BF get something out of a TDDUP marathon?  I think that was a really good suggestion.

Hugs my dear, you'll get it sorted out :)

chicagomeg

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1196
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2013, 11:23:11 AM »
Personally I find the best way to convey to people that I don't want to spend money on something is "it's not in the budget this month". Saying "I'm choosing not spend money on that so I can save" strikes people as sanctimonious and judgey, regardless of how you mean it.

As far as your boyfriend, I think you've hit something by saying he's depressed. Having been in a relationship with a depressed guy with no financial sense whatsoever, I can tell you that's a slippery slope. You might encourage him to seek professional help if you feel his behavior is indicative of a larger issue, which is quite understandable given the circumstances.

I lack good advice on this whole mothers birthday delimma except that I don't think you owe anyone an explanation about your financial circumstances, not even your mom.

unplugged

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 136
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2013, 02:19:38 PM »
Last week I caught myself saying "we prefer to invest/save our $ instead of overpaying for stuff".

I just wanted to clarify and say that I used that while discussing prom with some teens. Prom can get ridiculous around here. Regardless, I need a catch phrase that does not sound sanctimonious and judgey though. Sometimes you gotta rebel against $tuff but I need a nice polite way to do it. Sorry did not mean to highjack this thread.

icefr

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2013, 04:02:19 PM »
I just wanted to clarify and say that I used that while discussing prom with some teens. Prom can get ridiculous around here.

I bought my prom dress in the off-season, i.e. within months after the previous year's prom, so it only cost me about $20 and then $20 in alterations. Not a bad deal! I'm not a big puffy dress person though.

NumberJohnny5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2013, 04:17:14 PM »
I just wanted to clarify and say that I used that while discussing prom with some teens. Prom can get ridiculous around here. Regardless, I need a catch phrase that does not sound sanctimonious and judgey though. Sometimes you gotta rebel against $tuff but I need a nice polite way to do it. Sorry did not mean to highjack this thread.

If you have a teen, give him/her an allowance that is at least enough to cover all the basic necessities (clothing, school trips, whatever). Then let them make their own mistakes. If she wants to dress in overly worn clothing all year so she can afford a nice fancy dress to wear one night...so be it. Those are the kinds of choices we have to make as adults, right? Well let them start making the choices now, and hopefully they'll make "mistakes" early on and learn from them.

I say "mistakes" because if dressing like a slob 364 days of the year, and going all out one night of the year truly makes you happy, I say more power to you. There's no right or wrong answers here.

NumberJohnny5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2013, 04:42:30 PM »
In my life there are a number of people who don't seem to "get" that what they think I can afford and what I can afford are not the same.  I do not make a lot of money ($63K/year), but it's a lot compared to many of my friends and family members.

Somewhat similar situation here. My Aunt (who we love, she's a very nice person) made the comment of "but you can afford that" when I said we weren't going to also go to Sydney with my mom, which means she'd miss out on that, and she SO wanted to do that. I try not to give specifics too much, but I pointed out how much it cost the FOUR of us to fly to New Zealand to meet my mom (flights were cheaper for her to fly to New Zealand and then to Australia), because she SO wanted to see New Zealand. That cost a lot for us, for all of three days! I just wasn't going to do it again; Sydney would still be there and my mom could make sure she makes it there next time.

My mother assumes that because "you make all that money," I am able to pay $100+ for the buffet for her and my dependents for her birthday celebration.  I had been intending to hold a cheaper celebration at my house where I did the cooking.  When she said she really wanted to go out for buffet, my brother changed the plans and suddenly I was stuck with the bill.  My sister, who also makes about what I do, was similarly frustrated.  No matter how many times I tell my mother that it might seem like I make a lot of money, I have many expenses and want to save so that I can pay off my house and retire in 5.5 years, she doesn't get it.

Wife's mom is like that. Bit more subtle though, she'll just take forever to get out her money to pay at a restaurant (so you'll give up and just pay) or not offer to pay for whatever groceries you picked up for her at Walmart. My wife's sister falls for this too often I believe (which can cause resentment that my wife isn't chipping in for "her half"). My wife however will simply wait the 5+ minutes it takes for her to pay a restaurant bill, and will remind her of how much the groceries cost that she needs to be reimbursed for. Might not have gone over that well the first time or two...but guess who doesn't get asked to bring groceries every time they visit?

I don't know what he said to his gym teacher (who is a friend of my boyfriend's), but he came home with a pair of used but good condition shoes that the Phys Ed department has for kids who can't afford decent athletic shoes.  Gah!  Gym teacher is a colleague of mine and has a heart of gold.  But Jeez.  My son could have waited until the end of February.

I can somewhat relate yet again! Our son's school has these fundraiser stores for certain holidays. I.e. for Mother's Day and Father's Day, they can take a $1 or $2 coin and buy some cheap crap to give you as a present. For Mother's Day I explained to his teacher that he would not be participating and why...she said they'd probably send him home with something anyways (which they did). For Father's Day I specifically asked that they not send him with something; we had discussed it with him, told him he could buy something with his allowance if he wanted, but we'd prefer something he had made instead (such as a card); well he'd taken some things he'd made at the hardware store to school (to show), they helped him wrap it up as a present for Father's Day. That was nice of them. I know they meant well when they sent him home with something for Mother's Day...it's not that we couldn't afford it, but that it wasn't in line with our (or his) values.

I have explained and explained to the people in my life that I can't afford to do what they want many times.  Why are they not getting it?  Maybe by giving in and paying for that buffet I sent the wrong message.  It meant I had to seriously cut back in other areas to afford it and I really did resent that, but I did give in that time.  I won't next time.  I don't give in the other times, but still people aren't getting it.

You have to stick to your guns. They've gotten you to pay in the past, so they've been "trained" to act that way. It takes a while to un-train that behaviour.

But do note, this could cause a big issue within your family; some may refuse to speak to you again. You have to decide if it's worth the risk. There are multiple people in our family that no longer speak to us (one probably permanently, the other has been a few months now so I dunno how that'll play out). All related to money.

How does everyone manage to deal with others who don't get that while it might seem like we can afford it, we either don't want to or can't?

Well, we just explain that we have different priorities, that we choose to spend our money on certain things (including saving for retirement). Of course, many people just won't get it, so just roll up a newspaper, smack them on the nose, and say "No! Bad spendthrift, bad!" Wait, no, got my "Dog Discipline Training" book confused with my "Financial Discipline Training" book again.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2417
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2013, 04:59:00 PM »
For some reason I'm thinking you might like the book "Start with No."  It's basically a rejection of the idea of the book "Getting to Yes" and win-win negotiation techniques.  The author points out that, while lots of us like to keep everybody happy and have been taught that that's the best mindset for negotiation techniques, sometimes the best way to keep the other person happy is to say 'no' to them.  That's the start of negotiation, once you both know where you stand.  Whenever I ask someone for something now, I say, 'no is a perfectly acceptable answer' and that cuts through all the bs where people try to pretend that they're giving you what you want or saying that they'll give you what you want and then straight up reneging when the time comes.  Or if I'm the one who has to say 'no' to someone, I can frame it how it's really great for them that I'm being clear about what's on the table and what's not so that we can go on from there.  That might help you with conversations about money where you could shut down the part where you're being asked for money and move on to what's really important to the person and in what other areas you could do things for them.


Looks like somebody uploaded it here:
http://www.columbia.edu/~mwm82/negotiation/StartWithNo.pdf

KimAB

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 79
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2013, 05:22:34 PM »
If anyone is interested you can watch till debt do us part (and maybe Princess...) on the Slice Website.  I just checked to make sure that it is there because they were messing around with the videos last week.  There is only four seasons, but that should be plenty of Gail!

Gail also has a blog.  If you google search Gail Vaz Oxlade blog it will come up.

To the original poster.  I feel your pain.  My oldest boy (20- Asperger's) has been wearing free army cadet shoes and coats out of supply (and is now a volunteer in supply...) for years.  He feels good about wearing clothes that make him feel like he's part of the team.  They feel good that they've done a good deed.  I feel good that people outside the house care about him... even though it might be a little misguided...

Sometimes when you have a special needs kid that is all you can do.  At least he didn't get into trouble, somewhere.  ;-)

About the spendthrift relatives.  :-/  Haven't cracked that nut myself! 

unplugged

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 136
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2013, 01:27:25 AM »
I just wanted to clarify and say that I used that while discussing prom with some teens. Prom can get ridiculous around here. Regardless, I need a catch phrase that does not sound sanctimonious and judgey though. Sometimes you gotta rebel against $tuff but I need a nice polite way to do it. Sorry did not mean to highjack this thread.

If you have a teen, give him/her an allowance that is at least enough to cover all the basic necessities (clothing, school trips, whatever). Then let them make their own mistakes.

My kids do awesome, they even have nest eggs, it's their friends that spend WAY more that's comes up. That's when I need the catch phrase etc.. Girls here spend $250-380 and even more for their dress alone. Then the limo and so on and so forth. My kids like their savings too much to blow it all on one night. They do prom right but it makes for some awkward conversations with their friends. This is when they and myself need  a catch phrase that does not sound judgey LOL. I mean yes we CAN afford that, but we prefer to do other things with our money etc.....

Ozstache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 866
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Oztralia
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2013, 02:50:19 AM »
My mother assumes that because "you make all that money," I am able to pay $100+ for the buffet for her and my dependents for her birthday celebration.  I had been intending to hold a cheaper celebration at my house where I did the cooking.  When she said she really wanted to go out for buffet, my brother changed the plans and suddenly I was stuck with the bill.

My trick is to flush these things out before you get stuck with the bill. eg. in this case when my mother said let's go out for a buffet instead (and you knew damn well she couldn't afford it), I'd say "sure, but how are you going to pay for that?" That should make her say something like "well, I was hoping you were going to pay for us all, what with you being on a good income and all". To which you reply, now that it is flushed out, "um, no. I'm happy to pay my share, and (maybe) you because you're my dear mother and it's your birthday, but the rest of the family can pay for themselves". Fixed!


mustachecat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2013, 07:33:34 AM »
Oof. Lots of tough situations here, BPA.

I agree with others that your money is your business, and no one--not your mom, not your boyfriend--is entitled to tell you how to spend it. But since your relationship with them is at least somewhat enmeshed with their relationship to your money, it'll be tricky to gracefully extricate yourself.

For the buffet situation, were you the only sibling (you mention a brother and a sister) that had to pay? That seems... really weird. In the future, if your mom insists on that kind of outing, I think it would be fine (especially among family) to email everyone an invitation or reminder that says something like, "I know everyone is so excited to celebrate mom's birthday this Saturday at Buffet Town USA! FYI, it'll come out to $X for adults and $X for kids, but please remember to bring a little extra cash to cover the birthday girl's meal." Then bring enough cash for your share and a little extra, but no more.

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8955
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2013, 09:16:11 AM »
In addition to the excellent advice to say, "I choose not to spend my money that way." instead of "I can't afford it.", you can always say, "I choose not to let you spend my money that way." to those who don't listen to the first explanation.   They might get mad about it, but it's only fair, because they've already made you mad about it.  Karma is a bitch.

On a different topic, are you aware that 50% of marriages end in divorce?  And that the major reason they end is money troubles?

Whatever you do, don't marry someone that you KNOW can't handle money.   It's one of the best ways known to man to ensure you either live poor or get divorced.

If the boyfriend doesn't show signs of "getting it" soon, dump him and look for a grown up.  You can do better and you deserve better.

I'm not pulling punches because I've known far to many awesome women that marry overgrown spoiled children instead of men.   They end up wasting five to twenty years of their life before they break free.   That's a longer sentence than most crimes in the USA nowadays.   

galaxie

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2013, 09:41:42 AM »
I have been using a variation of the budget phrase.  "I'd love to, but I spent my clothes budget this month already," or whatever. 

It's hardest with my mom, because shopping together was a mother-daughter fun thing when I was growing up.  We weren't dumb about it -- went during sales, bought things we actually would wear, etc. -- but it still generates social pressure to buy stuff when we see each other now.

I've got a friend who sends the school a check instead of letting her child participate in those fundraisers.  The school gets more money if you just pay them directly, and you don't get more random crap in your house.

It's tough when you and your family disagree about how much claim they should have over how you spend your money.  I don't have any suggestions for that, except to stick to your guns.  People will behave however you let them, so you have to stop letting them.

My in-laws have a much more communal view of family money & property than I am used to.  It's mostly good, because they're pretty frugal people, but they often think we should purchase things that are really not right for us.  We're young and live in a city house without much space, and they're middle-aged and live in the suburbs, so the "buy in bulk and stockpile everything!!  Never give/throw anything away!" impulse is fine for them but really not good for us.  In this case, it's about not just money, but also space and taste -- I often think "it's nice, but I don't want to have that taking up space in my house."  And they think, "you have to take it so I don't have to waste it by throwing it away!"

unplugged

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 136
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2013, 09:50:16 AM »
 In my opinion, Americans do not talk about money enough. If it were a more open topic people could learn from each other. I have seen other ERE's (before MMM was born) talk openly within their families but that's the only people I see talking money, especially growing money.

 I think it's imperative that people scope out potential partners to see the they are financially compatible.

Zaga

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2903
  • Age: 44
  • Location: North of Pittsburgh, PA
    • A Wall of Hats
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2013, 11:33:08 AM »
Have you ever heard the term "thoil"?  This mean roughly 'justify the expense'.  As in, no I can't thoil buying that new car.  You may have the money in the bank and could technically buy the car, but you just can't justify it.

I also like what SwordGuy said: "I choose not to let you spend my money that way."   Another way to phrase it could be "Spend your own money, not mine!" if they need more clarity.

Tyler

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1198
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2013, 11:33:52 AM »
I sympathize with your mother situation.  My mom used to probe relentlessly about my income (which I wouldn't specifically share), and I remember my aunt once proclaiming "well you moved to San Francisco so you're clearly rich" as a personal attack of some sort.  She and my mom grew up poor, and there are clearly some personal issues surrounding money that are larger than me.  I try not to take it personally, and simply avoid discussing income at all with family.  I'm happy to talk about minimizing spending, though. 

That said, boundaries do sometimes require active management.  My one piece of advice is to be cognizant that sometimes the concepts of "gift" and "debt" can get flipped mentally by family.  Be careful not to allow you paying for dinner to be seen as covering an obligation of some sort ("you're doing well right now so you owe the family that much").  Likewise try not to allow legitimate debts to be written off as gifts by the receivers (you can choose to consider it a gift, but that's your choice and not theirs).




BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2013, 05:16:08 AM »
It sounds as though you are a teacher ("my students"). I too am a teacher in Ontario and I think your experience, or a variation of it, is quite common. I'm very fortunate in that in my family/social circle, everyone makes as much or more than I do (all private sector workers), but I still get a little of the "well you're a teacher you can afford anything" crap. In particular, my next door neighbour, who, like all people with low sloping brows, hates teachers. The stuff that comes from his mouth when he is inebriated in his backyard would make a sailor blush, all directed towards public sector workers. Awkward. We are very aware that people watch what we drive, where we live and how we spend. There is a target on our backs.

As far as advice, with your boyfriend, you need to make him aware of your situation. At 63k a year, you don't take home an enormous amount of money. At that pay, about 600 goes towards a pension that is being reduced almost yearly (de-indexing now, payout will be reduced in coming years). Explain this to him. You may not want to totally open up the books for him, but letting him have just a little look may be beneficial. Beware your boyfriend taking advantage of you. If he wants to spend let him, just don't let him spend your money.

It may be worth it to factor in a small amount of money in your budget to share your good fortune with your family. Don't let it go beyond that amount (it may take 2 or 3 months to pay for a dinner out for example). If you are a teacher, your income will increase, though we're no longer 100% sure at what rate, many people won't see the kind of increases you will in your lifetime.

If you aren't a teacher, you won't see increases at all, but I think my other advice stands.

Thanks and yes I am a teacher. I'm at the top of the grid too (so no more decent increases), but manage my crazy life as a single mom raising a special needs child by working 2/3.  My boyfriend is a teacher too albeit one of the unfortunate ones who didn't manage to secure a permanent contract before the employment window closed.  He should get it but seems to be in some sort of denial about his own employment situation.  When we got together (almost 6 years ago), he was really quite frugal, but then got  enough work to spend some and just yesterday when I was at his house, I was thinking, "Look at all of this stuff." 

As far as my family goes, there was a whole lot of enabling of poor behaviour that I participated in 20 years ago that I don't want to return to.  Some members of my family will just take and take and take.  My brother pointed out to me on Friday when I was talking to him about it, that my mother seems to think that my one sister and I are endless sources of money that my mother can take and redistribute to my other siblings who make less.  My brother laughed because, while he makes less than we do, he has no dependents and much lower expenses.  I ended my annoying, smug role of saviour years ago and budgeting some sort of "I can't really/don't even want to afford it" money would probably not be a good idea.  In The Millionaire Next Door, we are warned about providing Economic Outpatient Care for Adult Children.  I already need to save for that (not sure how my son is going to fare if I don't...at least to some extent).  I can't do that for my mother and my one sibling who refuses to do anything to support herself.

Good luck to you.  Sounds like your neighbour is a real peach.  And lately we do seem to have targets painted on us.

And lots of other posts to respond to.  Thanks to everyone for the responses.  Need caffeine and it might take me most of the day to respond, but I do appreciate it.  :)

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2013, 05:41:18 AM »
Normally I would probably sugarcoat this a bit more, and if I'm off base feel free to tell me to pound sand.

The problem here is that you are behaving in a way that leads others to believe that they are entitled to your money.  In my world, that is unacceptable behavior on their part.  If you decide this is an important enough problem to solve, you can fix it by behaving differently, which probably means changing your belief system about your money.

Perhaps a [modified] famous Eleanor Rooosevelt quote may help:  "No one can make you feel [like your money is theirs] without your consent."

If I had to guess I'd bet there is something in your childhood (probably from your mom, since you mention her in two different ways in your post) where you were taught that your stuff wasn't yours...maybe even that you were not entitled to have your own stuff and/or opinions.

Finally, I'm writing the above rather blunt stuff to try to be helpful.  For what it's worth, I've got similar things where I think my parents are wrong.  Lord love 'em, but they're wrong on some things.  And when they're your parents, and they love you and you love them, and in my case if they're smart and successful and popular, not to mention stubborn and in the declining years of their lives, broaching subjects and breaking patterns takes enormous care, clarity, thought, and purpose.  It's also really really hard, because I still try to make sure that they know that I still love and respect them as I disagree and decide to live my life differently.  I have done it successfully with them in a few very small areas, and I'm really glad I did.  There are other big areas that I'm still pondering over.

If you like to read self help books and don't mind some Christian religious stuff, the classic book here is "Boundaries", by Dr. Townshend.

Regards and good luck,

2Cor521

Thanks for your response.  I like the direct approach.  :)

I agree that by not firmly saying no to my mother about the birthday buffet, I communicated that it was okay with me, but I don't think I communicate that it's okay to expect money from me in other situations.  I think she views it as unfair that my sister and I make more money than our siblings and her and so expects us to pick up the slack which neither one of us have done in years (apart from the buffet). 

My boyfriend and I could afford more expensive dates before his employment was cut back a few months ago.  I am adjusting to the new reality and he isn't quite there yet.  Until recently, when we were each paying for two date nights a month, it was working fine.  I guess we are in a transition period.  I spent less money than anyone on our Saturday out with friends. 

Part of parenting is teaching living below my means.  My daughter understands it (but sometimes resents it), but my son seems to forget.  I suppose it doesn't help that he sees his dad and step-mother spend money in more traditional ways. I had to laugh the day my son saw the new to us stove I'd bought and exclaimed, "That stove is so nice that it's almost nice enough to be in Dad's house!"  :) I am actually quite a hardass about money with my son.  And because of his issues with organization, I am teaching him to be a minimalist.  He actually quite likes having his room set up the way we've set it up with less stuff in it.  He can find things! 

So, I don't think that overall I've taught people they are entitled to my money.  My mother wants to redistribute what she views as "the family wealth," my boyfriend's expectations have not yet caught up with our financial reality, and my son is learning, but like many kids (especially ones with his issues), wants what he sees others (who are less frugal) have.  I definitely won't let the buffet situation happen again.

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2013, 05:49:31 AM »
For some reason I'm thinking you might like the book "Start with No."  It's basically a rejection of the idea of the book "Getting to Yes" and win-win negotiation techniques.  The author points out that, while lots of us like to keep everybody happy and have been taught that that's the best mindset for negotiation techniques, sometimes the best way to keep the other person happy is to say 'no' to them.  That's the start of negotiation, once you both know where you stand.  Whenever I ask someone for something now, I say, 'no is a perfectly acceptable answer' and that cuts through all the bs where people try to pretend that they're giving you what you want or saying that they'll give you what you want and then straight up reneging when the time comes.  Or if I'm the one who has to say 'no' to someone, I can frame it how it's really great for them that I'm being clear about what's on the table and what's not so that we can go on from there.  That might help you with conversations about money where you could shut down the part where you're being asked for money and move on to what's really important to the person and in what other areas you could do things for them.


Looks like somebody uploaded it here:
http://www.columbia.edu/~mwm82/negotiation/StartWithNo.pdf

Oooh.  Excellent.  Thanks.  Have this image of someone saying, "We have booked a buffet for Mom's birthday" giving the date and details and me saying just, "No" without an explanation and the idea is making me giggle.  I'll have to read the book, but that image is making me laugh.

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2013, 05:52:52 AM »
Oof. Lots of tough situations here, BPA.

I agree with others that your money is your business, and no one--not your mom, not your boyfriend--is entitled to tell you how to spend it. But since your relationship with them is at least somewhat enmeshed with their relationship to your money, it'll be tricky to gracefully extricate yourself.

For the buffet situation, were you the only sibling (you mention a brother and a sister) that had to pay? That seems... really weird. In the future, if your mom insists on that kind of outing, I think it would be fine (especially among family) to email everyone an invitation or reminder that says something like, "I know everyone is so excited to celebrate mom's birthday this Saturday at Buffet Town USA! FYI, it'll come out to $X for adults and $X for kids, but please remember to bring a little extra cash to cover the birthday girl's meal." Then bring enough cash for your share and a little extra, but no more.

My sister and I paid for my mom.  It was paying for me and my kids that pushed it higher.  Funny thing is that I learned frugality from my mother.  I had no idea she was good at spending other people's money.  ;)

mpbaker22

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2013, 07:04:56 AM »
I skipped a few of the more recent comments to make my point.

Your original post came across as quite negative, but I can understand that as I often have negative thoughts of other's finances as well.  That's just it.  You're talking about other people's finances, but your covering their finances with your money.  I think one way to start changing this is to quit saying "I can't afford this" and tell your family/friends "you can't afford this."  Because actually it seems like you can afford it in the traditional, you have enough money to pay for it.  This may take some time, but you probably really need to increase your family's financial intelligence.

This can be tough, and my family has the same problem, so I can really relate.  Of the adults in my family, I make the least.  But as a percentage of income, I save the most, and I might save the most dollars too.

galaxie

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2013, 07:08:57 AM »
The question needs to be reframed.  It's not whether you can afford to buy things for people.  It's whether they should expect you to do that.  "You can't expect me to pay for ____ all the time" might help point out what they're doing more clearly.

c

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
  • Location: NYC
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2013, 11:54:09 AM »
Most of my friends and family live more extravagant lives than I do. They all assume I make more than them (which is not always the case), so it was a big issue when I pulled back my spending. I got a bit of a hard time from family. I found it helped when I gave a reason, first it was "I can't do x as I"m paying off  credit card debt", then it was "I'm saving for a house". Now it's "well I just bought the apartment, it needs work". People seem to understand those things as they can relate to them and they don't need to know how much I'm saving and how much I'm spending on the excuses I give.

I had a very frank talk with a friend a few weeks ago when she borrowed money for rent then showed me the v. expensive shoes she bought "So these are the reason I couldn't make rent". Urgh! She's always made small comments about how I make so much more than her. I said "I make more money that you and I don't have shoes like that, that's what I had the cash in the bank" (she'd been surprised that I was able to just go to the ATM and draw the money). I think it was an eye-opener for her.

My SiL always made comments about how much money I must have as I bought an apartment where I did. It was quite a shock when she found out that my mortgage is half what hers is and she lives in a lower cost of living city and we have about the same household income.

I hate when people assume what you can and can't "afford".  I don't have a safety net, if I lost my job or got sick I don't have relatives who can help me out.

galaxie

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2013, 01:16:14 PM »
I had a very frank talk with a friend a few weeks ago when she borrowed money for rent then showed me the v. expensive shoes she bought "So these are the reason I couldn't make rent". Urgh! She's always made small comments about how I make so much more than her. I said "I make more money that you and I don't have shoes like that, that's what I had the cash in the bank" (she'd been surprised that I was able to just go to the ATM and draw the money). I think it was an eye-opener for her.

My sister in law does this.  She buys crazy, expensive things that I wouldn't dream of buying, but her income is a quarter of mine.  I think she thinks that right now isn't part of her "real" life -- she's waiting for her grown-up career and household to get started -- so she doesn't need to be responsible with money or plan for the future.

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2013, 03:35:35 PM »
The question needs to be reframed.  It's not whether you can afford to buy things for people.  It's whether they should expect you to do that.  "You can't expect me to pay for ____ all the time" might help point out what they're doing more clearly.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.  I'm thinking this solution will help my relationship dynamics the most.


mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10880
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2013, 05:37:58 PM »
Just out of curiosity, have you ever watched "till debt do us part"?  If you have cable (we do, the previous owner of our home had it "hooked up" some way, but we have yet to receive a bill for it) , or you can watch it online, it is on slice.  If you are not familiar with the show, it is a real couple, from Ontario, which has money problems and the host comes in and tries to fix them.  Maybe, it might work for your family if they watched a few of those shoes.  The people on it are very typical, and maybe they may be able to see themselves in the show, realize their error of thinking, and make some changes.   We watch the show as a check against our progress.   Just a thought...

I LOVE THIS SHOW.  It was on CNBC.  I canceled cable last year and don't get it anymore.  Slice isn't available in the US.

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10880
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2013, 05:46:15 PM »
I feel for you...I don't have this experience, but my friends do.  My friends send her mother a couple hundred dollars every month.  It's expected (she's Chinese.)

When they travel to Malaysia (where her husband is from), the family will take them to a resort and leave them with the bill.  Ugh.


dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9922
  • Registered member
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2013, 07:47:16 PM »
Late to the party but your son reminded me of this:


BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2013, 10:56:14 PM »
Late to the party but your son reminded me of this:



OMG!  My mother has quoted this to me when my kids are acting like they get to spend my money as if it is theirs!  Too funny!

Nords

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3421
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Oahu
    • Military Retirement & Financial Independence blog
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2013, 11:28:09 AM »
I'd say that about three-quarters of our daughter's financial education has been based on Cosby episodes. 

thurston howell iv

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 425
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2013, 12:46:01 PM »
I don't have kids but I do have spendy friends and family and I sometimes hear the same things because I'm a professional... "you're the big muckity muck", "you make all this money" "you can afford it" etc ... (I don't make that much money for the record and I'm still chipping away at past debts- mostly student loans)

I don't ever argue about money- I refuse to. My parents did it all the time and it left an impression on me.  If my friends and family want to spend on extravagant crap I jokingly congratulate them on being big ballers & high rollers and tell them I'm poor and giving all my paychecks to the people I owe (which is mostly true) and that I will have to make due with less...

Many don't understand but that's not my problem.

tmac

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 470
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2013, 07:42:46 AM »
*Sigh*
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 02:23:46 PM by tamara »

babysteps

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 118
  • Location: Southern Tier NY State
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2013, 10:01:01 AM »
5. Her decision to to reward herself for only buying a $300 fountain pen (to add to her collection of ~20), instead of the $500 one she wanted, by spending the other $200 on a new North Face fleece (purchased for the logo only).

*Sigh*

@Tamara, you may appreciate this - Four or so years into a more MMM lifestyle, I still haven't fully divested my clothes (finally started selling some online last month).  Yesterday I noticed I have a few name-brand coats I could probably sell for more than zero$.  Then last night I had a dream that I bought a new coat, it was down & breathable & waterproof and on sale and would let me get rid of all my other coats (remember, this is a dream...).  But then I got it home, and noticed that the coat was $400 (!) and that I paid another $1,700 for the 'optional fur-lined hood'!!  I guess I am grateful that my unspoken fears are now about silly un-needed purchases instead of about scarcity or not fitting in ;)

tmac

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 470
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2013, 02:08:09 PM »
@Tamara, you may appreciate this - Four or so years into a more MMM lifestyle, I still haven't fully divested my clothes (finally started selling some online last month).  Yesterday I noticed I have a few name-brand coats I could probably sell for more than zero$.  Then last night I had a dream that I bought a new coat, it was down & breathable & waterproof and on sale and would let me get rid of all my other coats (remember, this is a dream...).  But then I got it home, and noticed that the coat was $400 (!) and that I paid another $1,700 for the 'optional fur-lined hood'!!  I guess I am grateful that my unspoken fears are now about silly un-needed purchases instead of about scarcity or not fitting in ;)

I got to the bolded part above and I literally gasped. $1700?? For a hood?? I had to remind myself that it was just a dream.

:D

anastrophe

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 560
  • Location: New England
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2013, 02:22:43 PM »

I got to the bolded part above and I literally gasped. $1700?? For a hood?? I had to remind myself that it was just a dream.

:D

I also nearly choked due to poor reading comprehension. But then again, today I was in a consignment store that sells some high-end stuff and picked up a piece of clothing that was just a basic cotton thing, nothing special about it, then I turned over the tag...Marc Jacobs...$500...I put that back pretty quick. And that was real life!

momo

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2013, 06:25:46 PM »
In my life there are a number of people who don't seem to "get" that what they think I can afford and what I can afford are not the same. 

...

I have explained and explained to the people in my life that I can't afford to do what they want many times.  Why are they not getting it?  Maybe by giving in and paying for that buffet I sent the wrong message.  It meant I had to seriously cut back in other areas to afford it and I really did resent that, but I did give in that time.  I won't next time.  I don't give in the other times, but still people aren't getting it.

And I am so sick of saying "I can't afford it" over and over and over.

How does everyone manage to deal with others who don't get that while it might seem like we can afford it, we either don't want to or can't?

Thanks.
@ BPA: My sympathies for dealing with some insanely inconsiderate and hardheaded people around you. I can relate with the significant other situation. It is very hard to convince someone you cannot live a lifestyle that isn’t in your budget. I agree perhaps it helps to let him know a bit about your financial commitments and how this is the reality. Sometimes it helps to show them this is it; deal with it and please do not make matters worse if you cannot help. I know this sounds harsh but this is real. I’ve certainly been where you are with a previous girlfriend. I calmly raised the topic one day and shared my financial concerns. I even showed her my numbers and asked her what do you think? Once she saw the numbers she was silent, she knew the truth was we could not afford to continue what we were doing.

I found it is extremely hard to show others you really do not have the money budgeted to spend, spend, and spend some more! I feel this is partly due to the disconnect they have with you and their own reality. I find some people feel they are entitled, or that you owe them and so they just take without any concern for your well-being. I’d say some of your relatives display this behavior.

Bottomline, you can only control so much in your life. Your time and finite energy is far too valuable to deal with this stress constantly. Have you considered distancing yourself after clearly stating to everyone (perhaps by email) that you cannot afford certain expectations? It is up to them to process and reflect on this information. Their expectations are their problems, do not let it become not your responsibility. I also second the Elenor Roosevelt's quote, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent". So if you truly do not agree with this vicious cycle you find yourself in, try something drastic to break the cyle.

Again, hang in there and let us know how it goes. Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 09:50:55 AM by Stashtastic Momo »

babysteps

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 118
  • Location: Southern Tier NY State
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2013, 12:53:27 PM »
...I had to remind myself that it was just a dream.

:D
maybe I should have said 'nightmare' ;)

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2417
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2013, 04:47:02 PM »
he's been complaining that he can't do well on "beep tests" because of those shoes.

Btw, he understands the commercials are propaganda, right, and that shoes don't actually improve his athletic performance?

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2013, 09:48:12 AM »
In my life there are a number of people who don't seem to "get" that what they think I can afford and what I can afford are not the same. 

...

I have explained and explained to the people in my life that I can't afford to do what they want many times.  Why are they not getting it?  Maybe by giving in and paying for that buffet I sent the wrong message.  It meant I had to seriously cut back in other areas to afford it and I really did resent that, but I did give in that time.  I won't next time.  I don't give in the other times, but still people aren't getting it.

And I am so sick of saying "I can't afford it" over and over and over.

How does everyone manage to deal with others who don't get that while it might seem like we can afford it, we either don't want to or can't?

Thanks.
@ BPA: My sympathies for dealing with some insanely inconsiderate and hardheaded people around you. I can relate with the significant other situation. It is very hard to convince someone you cannot live a lifestyle that isn’t in your budget. I agree perhaps it helps to let him know a bit about your financial commitments and how this is the reality. Sometimes it helps to show them this is it; deal with it and please do not make matters worse if you cannot help. I know this sounds harsh but this is real. I’ve certainly been where you are with a previous girlfriend. I calmly raised the topic one day and shared my financial concerns. I even showed her my numbers and asked her what do you think? Once she saw the numbers she was silent, she knew the truth was we could not afford to continue what we were doing.

I found it is extremely hard to show others you really do not have the money budgeted to spend, spend, and spend some more! I feel this is partly due to the disconnect they have with you and their own reality. I find some people feel they are entitled, or that you owe them and so they just take without any concern for your well-being. I’d say some of your relatives display this behavior.

Bottomline, you can only control so much in your life. Your time and finite energy is far too valuable to deal with this stress constantly. Have you considered distancing yourself after clearly stating to everyone (perhaps by email) that you cannot afford certain expectations? It is up to them to process and reflect on this information. Their expectations are their problems, do not let it become not your responsibility. I also second the Elenor Roosevelt's quote, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent". So if you truly do not agree with this vicious cycle you find yourself in, try something drastic to break the cyle.

Again, hang in there and let us know how it goes. Cheers!

Thanks.  I'm lucky that my boyfriend and I do not live together, I think.  :)  I have put some distance between my mother and me. As for my son, he is the joy of my life, and he just has to suck it up.  Too bad, so sad.  Mom ain't giving you money for stupid shit.

@Tamara:  Yikes.  $300 for a fountain pen?!?!?  WTF?! 

@SES:  DS isn't  quite his sister, but I do know less than he does about some things in his opinion.  ;)  Still not buying uber expensive shoes.

boy_bye

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
Re: Frustration with Spendthrifts
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2013, 10:01:42 AM »
i hear you on the frustration. i have a family member who is preparing to move a good 25 miles away from their job in order to save $200/month in rent. plus they are spending hundreds on paint and carpet cleaning and movers, meanwhile crying poor to another family member, who happens to be destitute, and actually asking for her social security check since she's in a nursing home and "doesn't need it."

the cluelessness and victimization are astonishing to me, and if i think about it too much i will actually go insane. so i just try not to think about it.

luckily, these family members already see me as a selfish uptight bitch, so i know they will never ask me for money, because they already know the answer will be "not a dime."