Author Topic: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?  (Read 17550 times)

FastStache

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Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« on: May 01, 2014, 06:25:22 AM »
I am moving into a house that has had a new roof put up in 2013.  The front side faces the south and I'm in Florida.

Are there any scenarios where it is worth putting up solar panels?

How are repairs handled and maintenance?

Is it better to rent or buy and how long does it typically take to recoup the initial investment?

nereo

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2014, 06:50:50 AM »
Quote
I am moving into a house that has had a new roof put up in 2013.  The front side faces the south and I'm in Florida.

Are there any scenarios where it is worth putting up solar panels?

How are repairs handled and maintenance?

Is it better to rent or buy and how long does it typically take to recoup the initial investment?

There are lots of arguments both for an against putting up solar panels.  Since you are in Florida, that's already a good sign (much better than those of us up at 50ºN latitude) but not quite as good as in the US southwest
There's the environmental reasons (needing less fossil fuels). 
But I suspect you are asking is this a good economical decision.  A few more things are needed
1) what would the cost of installation on your house, and how much power would it generate (get quotes from an installer)?
2) are there any tax breaks/rebates available - I think the federal one has/will expire in 2015 but there are lots of local (installer should know)
3) what's the cost of electricity in your area, the average energy use for your home and the source for that electricity?
4) does your utility company let you sell-back surplus power to the grid? (this used to be more common than it is now)

From what I've read and broadly speaking, in areas like Florida it can take 8-12 years to recoup the initial cost of installment.  Of course if you know #1 and #3 you can calculate that yourself.
It's not going to be a better 'investment' than putting the same amount of money into an index fund earning 7% - but there are other reasons to do it - two of the biggest being enviornmental and independence (you still have power when there's a blackout, unless it's from a hurricane that ripped your panels off your roof.  Then everyone in the neighborhood is screwed).

A much better ROI is to make your new home as energy efficient as possible.  Insulate the heck out of it, replace all lighting with LEDs, get energy star-rated appliances, a modern tankless water heater and live your life by not wasting energy (no AC set to 62).

Emg03063

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2014, 07:30:14 AM »

Frizhand

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 07:57:23 AM »
We just put solar panels on our house about 6 months ago (in Massachusetts).  The payback period for our system is about 5 to 6 years (there were some very good rebates and incentives available when we bought it).   We were spending about $1800 per year on electricity and now I'm paying 0.  So far, we are very happy. 

The way I looked at it, even if it took 10 years to get our money back that left 15 years (or more) or 'free' electricity (the panels have a 25 year life span, although many last longer).  My simple math went like this...if rates stay the same (they won't, they will rise) that's $1800 x 15 years, or $27,000.00 I'm saving in electrical bills over the next 25 years. So, I'm basically pre-buying my electricity to save $ in the long run.  If the pay back period is 6 years, that number grows to $1800 x 19 years, or $34,200.00.

The biggest cost to maintain the system should come from the inverter.  That may need to be replaced in 10-15 years.  Replacing that will cut into that $27K or $34k.   Even if it does, I'd still take the $17k to 24K is savings.

Time will tell but so far it's been great.

AMustachianMurse

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 08:01:10 AM »
We just put solar panels on our house about 6 months ago (in Massachusetts).  The payback period for our system is about 5 to 6 years (there were some very good rebates and incentives available when we bought it).   We were spending about $1800 per year on electricity and now I'm paying 0.  So far, we are very happy. 

The way I looked at it, even if it took 10 years to get our money back that left 15 years (or more) or 'free' electricity (the panels have a 25 year life span, although many last longer).  My simple math went like this...if rates stay the same (they won't, they will rise) that's $1800 x 15 years, or $27,000.00 I'm saving in electrical bills over the next 25 years. So, I'm basically pre-buying my electricity to save $ in the long run.  If the pay back period is 6 years, that number grows to $1800 x 19 years, or $34,200.00.

The biggest cost to maintain the system should come from the inverter.  That may need to be replaced in 10-15 years.  Replacing that will cut into that $27K or $34k.   Even if it does, I'd still take the $17k to 24K is savings.

Time will tell but so far it's been great.

I've was watching some bloomberg insider show on solar panels (no idea if they are substantiated claims) that there were some chinese companies putting out solar panels that were starting to fail or significantly dropping off in efficiency.  And this was a supplier that was making panels for all of the major solar companies (solar city et. al.).  Who did you buy the solar panels from, and do they have an extended warranty on the panels?  Where did the 25-year life span # come from?

GuitarStv

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 08:08:07 AM »
We bought the solar panels on our house.  With the incentives that Ontario offers, we are much better off in the long run doing this (payback worked out to about 5-6 years).  I was also somewhat concerned with potential problems should we need to sell the house with the roof leased out.

There's virtually no maintenance with solar panels.  Rain washes them off.  Ours were warrantied for 90% original output after 20 years, and our micro-inverters are warrantied for 20 years as well.

greaper007

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 08:29:22 AM »
I'm really considering it.    I stopped using my ac, and I don't tend to use more than about 450kwh for a 2700 sq ft house with 4 people living in it.    I'm in Colorado so that's a real incentive both with days of sunshine and subsidies.    On the buy calculators it looks like I would have to pay about $5000 for panels installed.    I wonder how much cheaper I could do it on my own (pretty accomplished diy-er here, I would probably only need to sub out the grid tie in)?

Frizhand

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 08:36:03 AM »
We just put solar panels on our house about 6 months ago (in Massachusetts).  The payback period for our system is about 5 to 6 years (there were some very good rebates and incentives available when we bought it).   We were spending about $1800 per year on electricity and now I'm paying 0.  So far, we are very happy. 

The way I looked at it, even if it took 10 years to get our money back that left 15 years (or more) or 'free' electricity (the panels have a 25 year life span, although many last longer).  My simple math went like this...if rates stay the same (they won't, they will rise) that's $1800 x 15 years, or $27,000.00 I'm saving in electrical bills over the next 25 years. So, I'm basically pre-buying my electricity to save $ in the long run.  If the pay back period is 6 years, that number grows to $1800 x 19 years, or $34,200.00.

The biggest cost to maintain the system should come from the inverter.  That may need to be replaced in 10-15 years.  Replacing that will cut into that $27K or $34k.   Even if it does, I'd still take the $17k to 24K is savings.

Time will tell but so far it's been great.

I've was watching some bloomberg insider show on solar panels (no idea if they are substantiated claims) that there were some chinese companies putting out solar panels that were starting to fail or significantly dropping off in efficiency.  And this was a supplier that was making panels for all of the major solar companies (solar city et. al.).  Who did you buy the solar panels from, and do they have an extended warranty on the panels?  Where did the 25-year life span # come from?

we have these panels: http://us.sunpower.com/homes/products-services/solar-panels/e-series/

I saw that story as well but I don't think these panels are part of that problem...but I'll admit it didn't look into it too much.

I bought the panels through my installer.  They gave me a couple options that varied by price, output, lifespan and warranty, etc.   

The 25 year life span is the manufacturer's spec but from what I could tell, most panels are expected to last about 25 years. Some manufacturers only warranty them for 15 - 20 years but this manufacturer has a 25 year warranty.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 04:06:57 PM »
As a general rule, remember that warranties are sometimes only worth the paper they are printed on.

deborah

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2014, 01:00:25 AM »
Solar panels have really gone down in price and up in quality over the past few years, so calculations here say they are worth it, even without a subsidy. Although Australia is one of the best places in the world for solar efficiency, where I live is not as good as other parts. I think Florida would be as good as here. Anything imported to Australia tends to be more expensive than it should be, so I expect your solar set-up expenses would be cheaper.

However, our consumer advice people advise that you should get just enough solar panels to cover your smallest usage days - especially if you don't get much rebate selling to the grid. It makes sense - you don't want to waste the electricity you have generated. It is just another form of frugality.

Emg03063

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2014, 10:02:26 AM »
I'm really considering it.    I stopped using my ac, and I don't tend to use more than about 450kwh for a 2700 sq ft house with 4 people living in it.    I'm in Colorado so that's a real incentive both with days of sunshine and subsidies.    On the buy calculators it looks like I would have to pay about $5000 for panels installed.    I wonder how much cheaper I could do it on my own (pretty accomplished diy-er here, I would probably only need to sub out the grid tie in)?

One caveat:  a lot of the rebates and incentives require certified installation, which can make the marginal cost of installation near zero.

greaper007

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2014, 10:49:18 AM »
I'm really considering it.    I stopped using my ac, and I don't tend to use more than about 450kwh for a 2700 sq ft house with 4 people living in it.    I'm in Colorado so that's a real incentive both with days of sunshine and subsidies.    On the buy calculators it looks like I would have to pay about $5000 for panels installed.    I wonder how much cheaper I could do it on my own (pretty accomplished diy-er here, I would probably only need to sub out the grid tie in)?

One caveat:  a lot of the rebates and incentives require certified installation, which can make the marginal cost of installation near zero.

I'll have to check that out.   I can't really see myself spending more than about $3000 for panels so that's where I thought it wold be nice to diy it.   Plus, there's not much to installing solar panels.   I've done vents and patches on shingled roofs before.   It seems like the only difficult thing with solar panels is the grid tie and the fact that they're always hot.

Nords

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2014, 12:31:04 AM »
I'm really considering it.    I stopped using my ac, and I don't tend to use more than about 450kwh for a 2700 sq ft house with 4 people living in it.    I'm in Colorado so that's a real incentive both with days of sunshine and subsidies.    On the buy calculators it looks like I would have to pay about $5000 for panels installed.    I wonder how much cheaper I could do it on my own (pretty accomplished diy-er here, I would probably only need to sub out the grid tie in)?

One caveat:  a lot of the rebates and incentives require certified installation, which can make the marginal cost of installation near zero.

I'll have to check that out.   I can't really see myself spending more than about $3000 for panels so that's where I thought it wold be nice to diy it.   Plus, there's not much to installing solar panels.   I've done vents and patches on shingled roofs before.   It seems like the only difficult thing with solar panels is the grid tie and the fact that they're always hot.
That "certified installation" phrase means you need a permit and a licensed electrician's signature in order to have a net metering agreement.  If you're applying for a rebate from your local govt or utility then you may need a similar signature.  If you're claiming state/federal tax credits then you only need to enter the data onto your tax returns.

If you're comfortable with drilling holes into a perfectly good roof, then you may be able to work with a smaller PV electrician.  They can advise you on the right materials for your local code, and it's fairly straightforward to do the mechanical grunt work.  A PV electrician also probably has a streamlined permit approval process, which is well worth paying a few hundred bucks to eliminate the bureaucratic hassle.  (Our PV contractor actually used to pay a "permit runner" to stand in line before the city permit office finally put the approvals online.)  When you get the rails mounted and the panels are ready to clip on, the electrician can do the final wiring for another $1000-$2000.  They'll sign the net metering agreement, a permit inspector will take a look at the completed system, and you're good to go.

If you're going totally off the grid then technically you need a construction permit and an electrical inspection.  That generally only becomes an issue when you sell your home.

Our system was installed in 2005 using a helpful PV electrician.  Over the next three years we expanded it to triple the size, and we did that work on our own.  A couple of years after that we removed it to upgrade the roof, and then re-installed it with completely new racks-- again all on our own.  If we decide to expand it again (to recharge an electric vehicle) then we're going to just buy the bigger inverter and install it on our own.  If you're safe (and comfortable) working with high currents then you can do it on your own.  You can also cover the panels with cardboard or work before dawn or after sunset...

BFGirl

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2014, 05:51:58 AM »
We just put solar panels on our house about 6 months ago (in Massachusetts).  The payback period for our system is about 5 to 6 years (there were some very good rebates and incentives available when we bought it).   We were spending about $1800 per year on electricity and now I'm paying 0.  So far, we are very happy. 

The way I looked at it, even if it took 10 years to get our money back that left 15 years (or more) or 'free' electricity (the panels have a 25 year life span, although many last longer).  My simple math went like this...if rates stay the same (they won't, they will rise) that's $1800 x 15 years, or $27,000.00 I'm saving in electrical bills over the next 25 years. So, I'm basically pre-buying my electricity to save $ in the long run.  If the pay back period is 6 years, that number grows to $1800 x 19 years, or $34,200.00.

The biggest cost to maintain the system should come from the inverter.  That may need to be replaced in 10-15 years.  Replacing that will cut into that $27K or $34k.   Even if it does, I'd still take the $17k to 24K is savings.

Time will tell but so far it's been great.

Are you using a battery bank for your power at night or on cloudy days?

electriceagle

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2014, 11:52:16 AM »
Dont forget that the benefits of solar panels accrue tax free; there is no tax on not having a bill to pay.

For this reason, a 7% return on solar panels is more like a 7% return on tax free muni bonds than a 7% return on an index fund.

As for buy vs. lease, the only reason I know of for a company to lease these to you is that they want to extract some value from the deal. You want the value to accrue to you rather than to them.

The value of a warranty is likely to become an issue with Chinese made no-brand panels. Some companies having their warranties underwritten by an insurance company. I would only buy from one if these or from the major US or Japanese manufacturers (Sunpower, Sharp, etc)

Frizhand

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2014, 10:44:24 AM »
We just put solar panels on our house about 6 months ago (in Massachusetts).  The payback period for our system is about 5 to 6 years (there were some very good rebates and incentives available when we bought it).   We were spending about $1800 per year on electricity and now I'm paying 0.  So far, we are very happy. 

The way I looked at it, even if it took 10 years to get our money back that left 15 years (or more) or 'free' electricity (the panels have a 25 year life span, although many last longer).  My simple math went like this...if rates stay the same (they won't, they will rise) that's $1800 x 15 years, or $27,000.00 I'm saving in electrical bills over the next 25 years. So, I'm basically pre-buying my electricity to save $ in the long run.  If the pay back period is 6 years, that number grows to $1800 x 19 years, or $34,200.00.

The biggest cost to maintain the system should come from the inverter.  That may need to be replaced in 10-15 years.  Replacing that will cut into that $27K or $34k.   Even if it does, I'd still take the $17k to 24K is savings.

Time will tell but so far it's been great.

Are you using a battery bank for your power at night or on cloudy days?

No, we do not have battery back-up.  Battery back-up is very expensive and best if you want to go off the grid entirely. 

Our system is tied into the grid.  During the day, our power comes from the panels and any excess is fed back onto the grid (net metering). At night, we take power back from the grid.  If the power goes out, we lose power as well.  I'll admit I've never fully understood why we can't run on the panels if we lose power, but in 10 years we've lost power about 5 times..so I didn't worry about it.  With the money we are saving on electric bills I can buy a generator for the few days we might lose power.

Our panels have made more electricity than we have used since we installed them.  So, we have a credit with the power company right now.  Once winter comes and the days are shorter, we tap into that credit to cover the power we need/use.

dragoncar

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2014, 11:28:50 AM »
See above but I'll say I would never lease something like that.  I'm guessing it's a very hands-off approach, but yeah, would you lease your hot water heater? (some people do).

FastStache

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2014, 12:08:18 PM »
Does anyone have some numbers on power capacity and full installation costs with incentives?

Mr. Frugalwoods

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2014, 12:21:40 PM »
I've been thinking about this for a while.

In Massachusetts it makes financial sense (if you have the available capital) to buy your own panels vs. leasing from a company.  I'm all about medium term investments that also help the planet!

But in some states the utility companies are changing the net-metering rules so that homeowners get less credit on their bill than they used to.  With this sort of regulatory uncertainty in the air there does seem to be a risk in owning the panels.

Anyone with a solar lease have information about how the deal handles changes in net-metering rates?  I'm guessing the homeowner also gets screwed in this situation but I haven't found much online referencing it.

Frizhand

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2014, 12:27:26 PM »
See above but I'll say I would never lease something like that.  I'm guessing it's a very hands-off approach, but yeah, would you lease your hot water heater? (some people do).

I'm not sure if you're referring to me specifically, but for the record I bought my system....not a lease.

Frizhand

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2014, 12:42:20 PM »
Does anyone have some numbers on power capacity and full installation costs with incentives?

Ours is a 5.8 kW system.  It cost 28k (gross cost).  I paid 24k out of pocket when it was installed (there were 4k in rebates from the state).  30% of that 24K was refunded by the federal govt when I filed my tax return, plus about $1000 more by the state (I got a 7k federal tax refund check this year).  After tax refunds is it cost my just under  16k to install.

plantingourpennies

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2014, 01:17:18 PM »
Just a thought - I'd check with your homeowners insurance agent/provider to make sure that any installation wouldn't negate any wind mitigation discounts you currently have on your homeowners policy, or require additional premiums.  It would suck to go to the trouble of getting the panels only to have an associated insurance increase eat up much of the economic benefits. 

homeymomma

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2014, 02:17:05 PM »
Would you be able to "sell" power back to the grid? If you were, and your own electricity needs we're low, it would reduce the time it would take to recoup the cost. If you aren't able to sell back, then your profit in terms of savings would be limited by your electricity consumption if your consumption is low.

gillstone

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2014, 02:32:35 PM »
I'm also eyeballing solar for when we replace our roof in a couple years.  This issue is that our roof is aligned east to west.  Does that nix solar completely or if I do it will it be panels tilted to face south?

deborah

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2014, 04:20:02 PM »
I'm also eyeballing solar for when we replace our roof in a couple years.  This issue is that our roof is aligned east to west.  Does that nix solar completely or if I do it will it be panels tilted to face south?
Solar panels are most efficient when they are at 90 degrees to the sun. As the sun's angle to your roof changes during the day and the season, fixed panels (as they are on the roof of a house) become more or less efficient. Where I live, in the southern hemisphere, the best angle for the roof is facing north at 35 degrees tilt. At this angle I would get 100% of what I could get. If I was still giving it a 35 degree angle, and placed it:

Due East 83%.
Due South 62%.
Due West 82%.

And if you place it at completely the wrong angle and direction, you still get 27%.

Emg03063

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2014, 08:04:29 PM »
My 5kw system cost me $28,500, less $2,500 in utility rebate, 65% combined state and federal tax credits leaves a net cost of $7,500, or about a 6.5 year payback.

Nords

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2014, 12:01:09 AM »
Just a thought - I'd check with your homeowners insurance agent/provider to make sure that any installation wouldn't negate any wind mitigation discounts you currently have on your homeowners policy, or require additional premiums.  It would suck to go to the trouble of getting the panels only to have an associated insurance increase eat up much of the economic benefits.
Have you seen any examples of this, or any links?

The reason I'm asking is because the installation tends to make a roof stronger by shielding the shingles and bracing the rails across the trusses.  The panels themselves are frequently rated for higher winds (and harder impacts) than conventional shingle roofs.

I'd insure the PV system itself like comprehensive/collision insurance on a vehicle:  after five years I'd drop it.  Our installation was so cheap (used panels, largely DIY labor) that we didn't bother insuring it at all.

Sydneystache

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2014, 06:12:06 AM »
Recently placed 14 solar panels for a 3.8kwH system. The panels were angled facing west because of shadowing issues. Just paid under AUD$7k - our govt rebates were just under $3k. As we are entering the winter season, the most I could get out so far has been around 2.4kwh. Currently the govt is paying around 6c/kwh for power exported back to the grid, down from 60c and I believe this will be phased out in 2016 unless they extend it.

My insurance covers it, overall pretty satisfied with having it. Also bought a Bosch li-ion battery lawnmower as one of the many outcomes - 'free' electricity from the sun, reducing petrol dependence and all that. Electric car is on the want list 10 years from now powered by the panels. Intangible value and feelgoodness = priceless.




fallstoclimb

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2014, 07:30:26 AM »
A company recently contacted us about putting on solar panels for free.  It sounded too good to be true but I have been wondering about it.  They only do it if your roof has enough sun exposure to generate a decent amount of power, and they recoup their costs by somehow taking/benefitting from the power your house is generating.  Given how much people have paid to have solar panels installed I still feel like there must be a scam here somewhere though....

Frizhand

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2014, 09:16:27 AM »
A company recently contacted us about putting on solar panels for free.  It sounded too good to be true but I have been wondering about it.  They only do it if your roof has enough sun exposure to generate a decent amount of power, and they recoup their costs by somehow taking/benefitting from the power your house is generating.  Given how much people have paid to have solar panels installed I still feel like there must be a scam here somewhere though....

It's probably not a scam...but probably is a lease. In other words, they put the panels on your house for free but you pay them for the electricity the panels generate.  So, (depending on the contact) it may lower your electric bill and  it may keep the cost of your electricity from rising in the future but you don't own the panels.  The good news is if there is a problem, you don't own the panels.

I don't know a lot about leasing systems so I'm sure there are other positives and negatives.

Nords

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2014, 10:51:27 AM »
Given how much people have paid to have solar panels installed I still feel like there must be a scam here somewhere though....
The "scam" is that you supply the roof space and the easy access to the utility's electrical grid, the leasing company takes all of the risk, and they get at least 65% of the net. 

As others have mentioned, you're generally insulated against energy inflation while earning a little money every month.  It's the photovoltaic version of running ads on a blog or joining a blogger affiliate program. 

If you want to maximize your ROI then you have to cough up your own capital (or borrow it) to own your system.  However most homeowners don't have the capital to do that, so the leasing companies are making money off those who don't have their own.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 10:53:12 AM by Nords »

Emg03063

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2014, 10:52:03 AM »
My insurance premium increase to cover the panels was ~$30/yr.

FastStache

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2014, 08:31:59 AM »
My insurance premium increase to cover the panels was ~$30/yr.

If you have say a 15 year warranty on your roof, does putting solar panels cause any issues there?

Erica/NWEdible

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2014, 10:06:18 AM »
We just put panels on the roof. Today's post on my site talks about the details, including the financials of our installation. Post here if you are interested: http://www.nwedible.com/2014/05/solar-in-seattle.html

GuitarStv

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2014, 10:10:23 AM »
My insurance premium increase to cover the panels was ~$30/yr.

If you have say a 15 year warranty on your roof, does putting solar panels cause any issues there?

With our roofing warranty damages caused by the panel installation are not covered, but other than that the warranty is still in effect.  The solar panels block UV light and some of the winds, so if anything they're protecting the roof.

Our insurance came to about 50$ a year.

plantingourpennies

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2014, 10:48:11 AM »
Just a thought - I'd check with your homeowners insurance agent/provider to make sure that any installation wouldn't negate any wind mitigation discounts you currently have on your homeowners policy, or require additional premiums.  It would suck to go to the trouble of getting the panels only to have an associated insurance increase eat up much of the economic benefits.
Have you seen any examples of this, or any links?

No examples, it was just a genuine question/suggestion to check before jumping in since that's what we would do.  OP mentioned they were in FL, and we have some of the most stringent roofing guidelines and crazy insurance requirements you need to jump through in the country, with occasional large holes in coverage that many people don't realize until it's too late. 

Nords

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2014, 10:51:16 AM »
Just a thought - I'd check with your homeowners insurance agent/provider to make sure that any installation wouldn't negate any wind mitigation discounts you currently have on your homeowners policy, or require additional premiums.  It would suck to go to the trouble of getting the panels only to have an associated insurance increase eat up much of the economic benefits.
Have you seen any examples of this, or any links?

No examples, it was just a genuine question/suggestion to check before jumping in since that's what we would do.  OP mentioned they were in FL, and we have some of the most stringent roofing guidelines and crazy insurance requirements you need to jump through in the country, with occasional large holes in coverage that many people don't realize until it's too late.
Thanks.  I get a lot of questions on solar projects and I'd hate to see the insurance companies discourage people.

Frizhand

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2014, 03:01:37 PM »
My homeowners insurance went up about $36 after the panels were installed.

I would check with your local town assessor's office to see if the panels would cause your RE taxes to go up.  The figures I heard were that solar panels can cause your home value to rise about 30K (I don't have a citation for that number, I saw a study when we bought the panels but I don't remember where it was from).

Where I am (MA) the town is not allowed to factor the panels into the assessed value of the house for something like 25-30 years.  If you live in an area that doesn't have this law, you could see you RE taxes go up once they are on. 

mustachianteacher

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Re: Solar Panels - lease, buy or plain no?
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2014, 03:21:20 PM »
A company recently contacted us about putting on solar panels for free.  It sounded too good to be true but I have been wondering about it.  They only do it if your roof has enough sun exposure to generate a decent amount of power, and they recoup their costs by somehow taking/benefitting from the power your house is generating.  Given how much people have paid to have solar panels installed I still feel like there must be a scam here somewhere though....

It's probably not a scam...but probably is a lease. In other words, they put the panels on your house for free but you pay them for the electricity the panels generate.  So, (depending on the contact) it may lower your electric bill and  it may keep the cost of your electricity from rising in the future but you don't own the panels.  The good news is if there is a problem, you don't own the panels.

I don't know a lot about leasing systems so I'm sure there are other positives and negatives.

This is basically what we're doing: a 20-year lease from Solar City. Granted, I'm no expert, but I'm surprised by the negative response to leasing. In our case, it has worked out quite well, we've been saving money from the get-go, and I think leasing is a good option when you don't have the money to pay to own your own system.

We had our system turned on at the start of December, and although I was warned that we would only break even in the winter months, we've come out ahead every month. I have a feeling that might be due to an exceptionally sunny December this year, but that's fine; I'll take it! We didn't have to pay Solar City anything up front, so it felt like the installation and inspections were basically free, and now we pay them $57/month. Based on our average usage of 15 kw/day for months we don't use the A/C (because A/C seems to be the only thing that really jacks up our electric usage), we're paying Solar City $0.127/kw, which is still cheaper than $0.14/kw we'd otherwise pay to the utility. Since December, we have generated almost exactly what we use, so our utility bill has been WAY lower, and even you add in the $57/month to the solar company, we're coming out ahead. Even better, as the days get longer, we're generating more than we use as long as we don't use the A/C, which we haven't had to yet. Once the heat kicks in (I live in Southern California), we'll use everything we generate and then draw from the utility as well, but again, out net cost will still be lower than if we were only using the utility. Finally, that $57/month is fixed for 20 years. Given that I fully expect the utility's rates to rise over the next two decades, I feel like we've got a pretty good deal.

Sure, we don't get the tax breaks, and yes, we probably could have saved more in the long run by buying our own, but we didn't have the case on hand to buy solar panels, and honestly, this is just so easy that, for us, this was the best possible option. If we had wanted to, we could have paid Solar City $8600 upfront for the cost of the whole 20 years and THAT would have been an awesome deal. We chose to direct our money to paying down debt and investing for retirement, though, and we didn't have $8600 lying around that wasn't earmarked for something.

Not saying this is the ultimate best choice ever, but it works for us, and I'm happy with it. I was leery of leasing for many of the same reasons people have expressed here, and the more I looked into it, the more comfortable I felt. The Solar City rep I worked with admitted he had never been grilled on the nitty gritty as much as I grilled him, but all of that digging and research was what it took for me to feel like, "OK, this isn't a rip-off or a bad deal at all."