force either i-explorer or firefox to connect with http (no "S")?

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Anyone know how to do this?

Long version: my HOA has a laptop and its only job is to operate the electronic key card system for the pool and tennis courts.  It got used for some web stuff and got completely overwhelmed with aggressive malware.  Only thing that worked was taking it to a shop to completely wipe the HD and put a fresh install of windows 10 on it.  This has caused a legacy system to no longer work. 

Previously, the laptop was able to run in explorer mode and connect via http:// to a static IP via ethernet cable to the "box".  After getting a fresh install of Win10, it connects just long enough to validate and authenticate, then attempts to refresh as https://  The old hardware can't do that so we get a security error.  We did before as well but were able to choose (connect anyway) and force http://.  That option no longer exists.

People smarter than me on networking stuff have tried a zillion settings and tricks with editing log files and such to no avail.  Anyone know the secret sauce to make either explorer or firefox (only browsers supported) to make a legacy unsecured connection? 

[neo von retorch]

Have you tried some of the suggestions listed here? This is from 9 months ago so probably still works.

https://superuser.com/questions/1721511/firefox-allow-http-urls-and-not-force-https

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Have you tried some of the suggestions listed here? This is from 9 months ago so probably still works.

https://superuser.com/questions/1721511/firefox-allow-http-urls-and-not-force-https

Has been tried.  That is the thrust of the problem though.  We start with port 80 and can connect just long enough to validate and authenticate.  Then the software banner comes up for like 1/10th second and (the port switches?) such that we get an insecure page warning.

Previously, we could click on "more" and choose to "proceed anyway (not recommended)".  We no longer get that option.  There "more" button is still there but nothing spawns below it when you click.  It is all blank.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Multiple sources of mine who speak this language are recommending 1) virtual machine running XP as OS 2) legacy install of IE6.  Let the bastards try to force a port other than 80 then!

[ChickenStash]

If you are getting an insecure page warning instead of a connection refused error, it sounds like the app is actually listening on 443 (https) along with 80. Did someone maybe install the (probably) self-signed cert from the app in the browser (or OS) trust store  on the previous install so it would connect?

[Daley]

Do security settings for the user profile allow for the running of portable executables? If so, one kludgy way to work around this would be to download and use an older Firefox ESR build (say one earmarked for continued Windows 7 support through March 2025, like ESR 115, current PA build is v.115.14.0 - scheduled to get updates through v.115.21 on 04 March 2025) specifically from Portable Apps (not the official installer build), where the various about:config settings from the instructions provided from the various links to ensure HTTP support mode should still work. Then, if it works and when ESR 115 stops getting security updates or you don't bother getting them, just treat it like Internet Explorer. It won't update, it'll just sit there unupgraded, forever Firefox ESR 115, so long as you don't install and use the Portable Apps Launcher to update it. You technically don't even need Portable Apps to install it. Just unpack and launch, and dump a shortcut into the appropriate folder for the start menu.

In theory, you should be able to even run regular installed Firefox and portable Firefox ESR in parallel so long as each app uses their own dedicated profile settings, however I can't personally test and confirm this as I no longer run Windows at home again, and the last time I tried doing this, Mozilla hadn't fixed the issue yet, and the two would butt heads and refuse to run if the other was launched.

Of course, the other workaround to conflicting parallel Firefox launching would basically shove all regular and basic internet access off to Edge/Chrome/Vivaldi, and treat the portable Firefox ESR 115 build like the weird, modern bizarro equivalent of IE for Windows 10/11... dedicated to only this one job. Which kinda makes sense, 'cause you're gutting a lot of security measures from running in the browser. You could even theoretically firewall the app down to only be usable for this purpose.

https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox-portable-esr
https://sourceforge.net/projects/portableapps/files/Mozilla%20Firefox%2C%20Portable%20Ed./

But seriously, follow these instruction and also change all of the following about:config settings before even attempting to connect and follow these last instructions, and make sure the location is not in the history before you even start.

browser.urlbar.autoFill false
browser.fixup.fallback-to-https false
browser.fixup.alternate.protocol http
network.stricttransportsecurity.preloadlist false

Hope this helps!

Edited to correct links, I accidentally linked the source code instead of the compiled binaries, and edited for further clarity. Oops, sorry!

Last edit, I promise. Sorry, my brain's not as sharp as it once was, and I keep remembering stuff that I should have included to begin with.

Anyway, you could also in theory install via the official Firefox ESR installer and attempt to disable auto-updates (though it's worth noting that disabling auto updates means some idiot could also accidentally re-enable auto-updates hosing you again after April 2025), but I specifically recommended going with the Portable Apps Firefox ESR build because that guarantees that the update mechanism is thoroughly and completely hosed and broken, forever* preserving the build installed.

*forever, or until the next catastrophic hardware failure, whichever comes first

[ditheca]

Might be as simple as launching firefox or chrome in Privacy or Incognito mode. Both let you waive some security options that aren't available in normal mode.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

If you are getting an insecure page warning instead of a connection refused error, it sounds like the app is actually listening on 443 (https) along with 80. Did someone maybe install the (probably) self-signed cert from the app in the browser (or OS) trust store  on the previous install so it would connect?

That can't be it.  When we went from og XP machine to win7, it worked just fine (the certificate is long 'expired').  We never messed with anything like that on 7.  Or on the 10 machine the first time.  But we can maybe try this.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

@Daley thanks for all that.  We have a guy that might be able to understand better than I.  Will fwd.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Might be as simple as launching firefox or chrome in Privacy or Incognito mode. Both let you waive some security options that aren't available in normal mode.

Will try.  Thanks!

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Hope to try again tonight the suggestions above.

Failing those, plan is to install virtual XP machine and run legacy IE6 in the VM environment.  We have the install executable and can wipe the box and fresh install but that would mean redoing all our data entry (and the legacy hardware is painfully slow).  We forgot to back up the saved data backup file before the laptop wipe!

[Daley]

@Daley thanks for all that.  We have a guy that might be able to understand better than I.  Will fwd.

Apologies if it's not as well organized as I usually try to provide. Hopefully your more technical person will grok what I'm getting at.

Basically, I'm just proposing using an older Portable Apps specific build of Firefox Extended Support that's still getting security updates (specifically build 115) where the documented HTTP settings should still actually work, and use that. This simultaneously provides the older interface/code without the features you need broken/neutered, and provides a Firefox binary that you don't have to worry about accidentally auto-updating to a newer build that will break everything again.

This should, in theory, be magnitudes easier to implement and lighter on the system resources than running an XP VM with IE would.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

@Daley thanks for all that.  We have a guy that might be able to understand better than I.  Will fwd.

Apologies if it's not as well organized as I usually try to provide. Hopefully your more technical person will grok what I'm getting at.

Basically, I'm just proposing using an older Portable Apps specific build of Firefox Extended Support that's still getting security updates (specifically build 115) where the documented HTTP settings should still actually work, and use that. This simultaneously provides the older interface/code without the features you need broken/neutered, and provides a Firefox binary that you don't have to worry about accidentally auto-updating to a newer build that will break everything again.

This should, in theory, be magnitudes easier to implement and lighter on the system resources than running an XP VM with IE would.

Thanks. I grok in concept now. 

Once we get it running, updates should not be a problem.  We are committed to disabling the wifi adapter once no longer needed to get software to get the pool key system running.  It will NEVER get on the internet again and only connect to a pair of offline boxes via ethernet cable.

[Daley]

Thanks. I grok in concept now. 

Once we get it running, updates should not be a problem.  We are committed to disabling the wifi adapter once no longer needed to get software to get the pool key system running.  It will NEVER get on the internet again and only connect to a pair of offline boxes via ethernet cable.

Froopy.

If that's the case? (didn't know it'd be offline, otherwise I'd have just said this): You could probably just ignore the extra step of using the Portable Apps binary, and go straight for the official latest Firefox ESR 115 installer. Just be sure you have a clean user profile with no history when you go to set it up and make the configuration changes. But this should address and roll back whatever broke between 115 (a version from back before the documented changes stopped working) and 129 that is keeping you from making this work.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/115.15.0/releasenotes/

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Thanks. I grok in concept now. 

Once we get it running, updates should not be a problem.  We are committed to disabling the wifi adapter once no longer needed to get software to get the pool key system running.  It will NEVER get on the internet again and only connect to a pair of offline boxes via ethernet cable.

Froopy.

If that's the case? (didn't know it'd be offline, otherwise I'd have just said this): You could probably just ignore the extra step of using the Portable Apps binary, and go straight for the official latest Firefox ESR 115 installer. Just be sure you have a clean user profile with no history when you go to set it up and make the configuration changes. But this should address and roll back whatever broke between 115 (a version from back before the documented changes stopped working) and 129 that is keeping you from making this work.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/115.15.0/releasenotes/

Even easier.  Install is fresh 10 win.  Shop did a hard reformat of HD and installed fresh copy of w10.  We tried the edge/explorer emulation thing native and it wouldn't work no matter how many areas you whitelisted the IP. Only thing that has ever been D/L is current build of FF.  If we can uninstall FF, then install 115 while offline so it can't try to update?  Should do the trick.

[Daley]

Even easier.  Install is fresh 10 win.  Shop did a hard reformat of HD and installed fresh copy of w10.  We tried the edge/explorer emulation thing native and it wouldn't work no matter how many areas you whitelisted the IP. Only thing that has ever been D/L is current build of FF.  If we can uninstall FF, then install 115 while offline so it can't try to update?  Should do the trick.

You don't even need to do that much. Firefox ESR 115 is supported with updates through March 2025. You wouldn't technically need to worry about it updating to a newer ESR build until April of next year if it was online. I'd still disable updates just to be on the safe side, though. The ESR 115 binary download will be listed under/after the ESR 128 build on the download page.

If you do find yourself having to redo this again after April 2025, however, you will absolutely have to go with the Portable Apps build of FF ESR 115 linked above, as it'll be nigh impossible to find clean binaries elsewhere.

[Daley]

One last thought/idea. If the ESR 115 build isn't enough of a rollback (it should be given it's July 2023 code), but in case it isn't? You could still try and go back to the Portable Apps method, and download Firefox ESR 102.13.0 to use instead. That'll push you back to June 2022 code. Or even further back to ESR 91.11.0 (August 2021 code), or further back down the archives (78.13.0, 68.10.0, 60.9.0, 52.8.1,...) until you find a version that actually works. You get the idea.

[ChpBstrd]

This didn't work in Firefox?

Settings > Privacy and Security > HTTPS Only Mode > Don't Enable HTTPS Only Mode

[Financial.Velociraptor]

This didn't work in Firefox?

Settings > Privacy and Security > HTTPS Only Mode > Don't Enable HTTPS Only Mode

Not sure if that was tried.  I did all the Explorer stuff. president tried FF.   Still haven't tried any of the workarounds.   Will add that to list of things to try.

[GilesMM]

Maybe a better long term solution is to upgrade the card key system to something more sustainable.  The HOA owes the members this, no?

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Maybe a better long term solution is to upgrade the card key system to something more sustainable.  The HOA owes the members this, no?

HOA is super budget constrained.  Without any capex item will run a deficit this year (and all contracts have been rebid, we are LEAN).  Assessments are only $300/yr compared to similar neighborhoods over $1,000.  But we need 2/3 super majority vote to raise assesments.  and it keeps failing.  Long term solution is pay to have pool filled in and closed permanently.  They will raise hell but it is effectively their decision.

[GilesMM]

Maybe a better long term solution is to upgrade the card key system to something more sustainable.  The HOA owes the members this, no?

HOA is super budget constrained.  Without any capex item will run a deficit this year (and all contracts have been rebid, we are LEAN).  Assessments are only $300/yr compared to similar neighborhoods over $1,000.  But we need 2/3 super majority vote to raise assesments.  and it keeps failing.  Long term solution is pay to have pool filled in and closed permanently.  They will raise hell but it is effectively their decision.

Low HOA budgets are a good thing as long as no surprises pop up.


I have used pools and courts with the old fashioned manual four digit code box on the door. Works fine and can be changed as needed. I think we changed the code every spring and alerted everyone.