Author Topic: For those living @ home after college...  (Read 5369 times)

jrwang93

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For those living @ home after college...
« on: April 19, 2015, 04:28:48 PM »
Either by choice or due to economic factors, what has the experience been like? Does it feel like high school again? How has it impacted your social life (if it has)?

I'm personally doing it because it doesn't make sense to throw away $1k a month if I'm going to be traveling monday-thursday. What has y'all experiences been like?

Doulos

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2015, 04:36:30 PM »
Traditionally, it is normal.
This idea that kids move out before they have established themselves in business is new and crazy.

I am not saying everyone should move into their parent's basement now.
But if you stay living at home, finish collage, save up for stache, etc.  While you work your way into a great paying job or start your own business, Then you are doing you, and your parents a favor.

They want to see you successful.  They also want you not to be a mooch and live on their couch until you are in your 40s.

So I would start with... If you live in your parents house...
1) You get a job.  Which I am sure you are.
2) You discuss with your parents, your exit plan.  And you honestly, humbly consider their advice.  They are paying for you right now; show some respect.
3) Pay them some kind of rent, grocery money, etc.  Even if they dont want you to, especially if they dont want you to, just do it.

Edit: If you get married.  It is time to move out.  For sure.  Just to clarify.

jrwang93

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 04:41:59 PM »
Traditionally, it is normal.
This idea that kids move out before they have established themselves in business is new and crazy.

I am not saying everyone should move into their parent's basement now.
But if you stay living at home, finish collage, save up for stache, etc.  While you work your way into a great paying job or start your own business, Then you are doing you, and your parents a favor.

They want to see you successful.  They also want you not to be a mooch and live on their couch until you are in your 40s.

So I would start with... If you live in your parents house...
1) You get a job.  Which I am sure you are.
2) You discuss with your parents, your exit plan.  And you honestly, humbly consider their advice.  They are paying for you right now; show some respect.
3) Pay them some kind of rent, grocery money, etc.  Even if they dont want you to, especially if they dont want you to, just do it.

Edit: If you get married.  It is time to move out.  For sure.  Just to clarify.

Fortunately, I signed last october and the job pays well enough that it lets me save for the first year out of undergrad 45k after maxing 401k and roth. And since I won't have any fixed expenses and variable expenses are covered by per diem, I'll get to keep most of that!

Do you think a exit plan being "I'm pledging to save 95% of my take-home pay and I'll leave once I have enough to buy a home in cash" a good plan? I was thinking about doing that and showing them exactly where my cash flow goes.

rubybeth

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 04:52:22 PM »
I did this and it was a little weird but mostly fine, and saved me thousands. I kept offering to pay rent, and while my mom would have taken the money, my dad refused every time and said he loved having me there. ;) My parents have a bi-level so I was able to mostly be in my room or the family room and have a pretty separate living space, plus my work hours were weird and I mostly ate by myself or on the go. After only about a year of moving back in, I decided to start grad school so then I spent even less time at home since then I had class and homework. I only moved out when I got married at 27.

The things I'd be cautious about are having good boundaries (just because you live there, you don't have a curfew, friends may sometimes stay over but there won't be loud partying, etc.) and discuss parents expectations of contributions (like making dinner for everyone once a week, keeping your space up to the standard of cleanliness, offering to pay rent or some portion of utilities, etc.).

My mom went through terrible empty nest syndrome after my sister moved out, I think she would have been happy to have us both live at home forever if I never got married and my sister hadn't gone to grad school in another state. :)

Doulos

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2015, 04:53:32 PM »
I would seek more advice.
For example, there are plenty of people here that would say you are crazy to buy a house outright when you have a 3-4% 30 mortgage available.  Put your 20% down and invest that other 80%.
I would say, houses at all are a bad plan.  Rent a cheap apartment and Invest 100% of that with zero debt.

I really cannot speak to your particular situation.  Your parents can.  But maybe they are the typical American spenders.  Blowing 95% of their income on stuff they neither need, nor really want to keep up with the Joneses.  So maybe they are bad to ask financial advice from.

Does that sounds like a good "Get out of my basement" plan?  Sure.  Saving up for your 1st house does.  But I would say explore your options.
Do you like the idea of being a landlord?  Maybe instead you save up for your 1st property that is not a house for just you, but an income property where you rent out most of it to tenants?

Dream bigger.

jrwang93

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2015, 05:09:29 PM »
I would seek more advice.
For example, there are plenty of people here that would say you are crazy to buy a house outright when you have a 3-4% 30 mortgage available.  Put your 20% down and invest that other 80%.
I would say, houses at all are a bad plan.  Rent a cheap apartment and Invest 100% of that with zero debt.

I really cannot speak to your particular situation.  Your parents can.  But maybe they are the typical American spenders.  Blowing 95% of their income on stuff they neither need, nor really want to keep up with the Joneses.  So maybe they are bad to ask financial advice from.

Does that sounds like a good "Get out of my basement" plan?  Sure.  Saving up for your 1st house does.  But I would say explore your options.
Do you like the idea of being a landlord?  Maybe instead you save up for your 1st property that is not a house for just you, but an income property where you rent out most of it to tenants?

Dream bigger.

I was directed to a thread that showed how I would be basically shooting myself in the foot to not get a mortgage in my first thread here: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/last-semester-in-college-looking-for-advice!/msg606838/#msg606838

However, I still want to stick with my gut that the borrower really is a slave to the lender. Management consulting is not necessarily a very stable job. If you underperform, you get cut. Period. Or you get shoved into grunt work that nobody wants to do, with very limited upward mobility that forces you to quit. The last thing I would want is to be stuck with a house payment that HAS to be paid while god-forbid I screw up on a client job and get let go. I've never revolved a single cent of debt, and honestly don't plan to do it ever.

I was more curious as to the social aspect of living at home. Since I'll be living in the suburbs, which is a good 25 minute drive from the downtown/where the cool places are, I feel like I'll just say "Nah, I'm staying in tonight" way too often. Does any moustachian have experience with this in particular?

jrwang93

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2015, 05:11:52 PM »
I did this and it was a little weird but mostly fine, and saved me thousands. I kept offering to pay rent, and while my mom would have taken the money, my dad refused every time and said he loved having me there. ;) My parents have a bi-level so I was able to mostly be in my room or the family room and have a pretty separate living space, plus my work hours were weird and I mostly ate by myself or on the go. After only about a year of moving back in, I decided to start grad school so then I spent even less time at home since then I had class and homework. I only moved out when I got married at 27.

The things I'd be cautious about are having good boundaries (just because you live there, you don't have a curfew, friends may sometimes stay over but there won't be loud partying, etc.) and discuss parents expectations of contributions (like making dinner for everyone once a week, keeping your space up to the standard of cleanliness, offering to pay rent or some portion of utilities, etc.).

My mom went through terrible empty nest syndrome after my sister moved out, I think she would have been happy to have us both live at home forever if I never got married and my sister hadn't gone to grad school in another state. :)

Were you dating while you lived at home? How was that experience for you?


jrwang93

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2015, 05:46:40 PM »
If you have a decent enough job, why not move out and start to stand on your own two feet?

Because thats what everyone does, and I want to be WEIRD!

In all seriousness, I have a goal to have a FULLY paid-off home (200-250k) and a ~500k portfolio value by age 30 (9 years from now). Its a super ambitious goal, but its a goal I'm willing to sacrifice for. Throwing away money for rent will not help me reach that goal in the timeframe that I want it to.

VanTran

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2015, 07:29:56 PM »
I'm 25 and live at home. I don't think it's weird at all; it's smart. I kind of understand the stigma, but we ain't birds, we human. Back in the days, we thrived mainly on communal efforts.

It's common in my extended family because of low income and spending habits, though most of my cousins moved out when they married. My goal is to build wealth, and I can't build shit on my salary if I moved out; SF Bay Area is expensive. I'm really cautious about big decisions like this because I have several married cousins who live in packed homes because of foreclosure, job loss, and spending habits.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 07:36:01 PM by JoJoK »

ethereality

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2015, 07:44:51 PM »
I'm almost 24, and I lived at home right after school, then moved out for 6 months, and moved back in. I wanted to move out just for the experience, but then it seemed silly not to live at home. I contribute $200 and change to rent, clean the house weekly, and cook and grocery shop. My mom is too busy, so I do a lot of that work. Plus, she has a house that's largely empty. It seems unpractical to rent another space. In the meantime, I'm working on learning repair skills and gardening by practicing on her house (: We have a solid relationship, so it's been fine.

Jakejake

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2015, 08:10:11 PM »
I can't speak to the social aspects; I left home at 16. But I married a guy who lived at home through college and a bit of work life. He was in his mid/late 20s when he moved out. Speaking as the wife, it was a great deal for me. I was a single mom before that and did own a small house on my own, but it was nice to marry someone who on his own had enough savings to cover a large down payment on a house.

Just to be clear - I earned more than him when we got married; I didn't marry him for the money. Just saying that it's nicer that he came with a few years of savings, vs. having spent tens of thousands of dollars on an apartment those extra years just to be able to say "I don't live with my parents."

astvilla

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2015, 09:22:45 PM »
Socially yes it can hurt a little. Though I'm such an introvert that living on my own with housemates and at home, there isn't much difference. I guess my social needs are a lot lower than most others.

As for the finances, it's huge. I've only worked for 7 months and have accumulated $45K as a per diem worker and grad student. If I was working full time, it could easily be $60-70K in savings right now, a huge amount. Right now I'm near $65K hoping to hit 80-90K end of this year and the dream is $200K coming out of grad school (later 20s).

Technically if I stayed at home and kept my expenses low by freeloading off parents (who are okay with me not paying them anything because they have a pretty nice retirement) then I could retire by 36-38, assuming no big events like marriage, kids, etc. If I delayed all those things, I could retire early, return to working part time, per diem and raise a family and spend time with kids or other activities. Am I willing to sacrifice that much for FIRE? Probably not. We live life once and I'd like to enjoy some aspects of it, which means I'm not going to stay at home forever. In fact I'll probably move out this summer. Living at home for 1 year working full time really helps build a nice cushion and platform. But once you're on your own, it's a cold world and your savings rate dramatically decreases. I would say my savings rate is around 85-90% right now.

I do feel I lose some independence but the savings is huge. I often argue in my head, "move out, get independence" or "stay home and accumulate $15000 more?" I want to move out and have that pressure but the same time I really like the money. But in the end the need to move out is kind of overpowering so I tell myself to hit my financial goal first before moving out. So $75K then I'll move out. Hopefully I don't keep changing that goal!

It depends on your goals whether you want to stay at home or not. If you want to FIRE, then yes staying at home for a bit is a good idea. As you build up your stash, it also teaches you the value of saving and when you move out, you'll be less likely to spend as you have developed those habits as opposed to moving out first thing and not having those habits. If social life is more important, than staying home might not be worth it. It depends on you as a person, how much you need to "live", and what are your goals.

There's definitely stigma but it's becoming more and more acceptable I find to stay at home with your parents for a bit. I guess 26 is sort of the limit but some go out further, even to their 30s. I personally think people should do what they want and what they need to do to survive and reach their goals, even if it might be stigmatizing, it's better than drowning in debt. On these forums especially, it's more acceptable as we all try to build our stashes.

SuperSaver

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2015, 07:11:22 AM »
So I graduated Dec 2012 and was told I was allowed to move in as long as I needed/wanted. My parents thought if I lived mostly rent free I would be able to stash money for relocating/moving out if a full time job required it. It is prohibitively expensive to move out on your own where I live unless you make a professional salary (nearby military base jacked up the prices since housing was scarce) $800+ month for a tiny efficiency in the country/boonies. $750 to rent a room in someone's house. $~1,500 no utilities included for a 2-3 bedroom apartment.

I moved back to my parents place a week after graduating and got a job in February as a server. I paid for cellphone, car insurance and gas (no car payment) and groceries for myself (we shared food but I bought my favorite foods since at 22 they shouldn't have to pay for my snacks or treats). I also pitched in on dog supplies and paid my dogs vet bills as well as did chores. I also paid my student loans by myself and socked away money for my eventual move.

It did not impact my social life since by living at home I lived near all of my best high school friends who had just graduated or were graduating (of the 7 of us who went to college we all moved home 2012-2013ish) so I was even more sociable then in college when I had my own place. My boyfriend at the time (he's my fiance now) was my high school sweetheart so he was constantly at my house since we were young teenagers. I did not have a curfew but I had to be quiet when getting into the house late at night so I didn't disturb my family or pets who worked different hours than I did.

The main reason I stayed until Spring 2014 was my mom got diagnosed terminal, stage 4 cancer June 2013. So less than 6 months of living at home and I had to stop applying for full time jobs so I could stay and help my father and sister take care of her. So in addition to what my family and I originally agreed to- I took on a lot more chores and all of the cooking and errands and basically waited on my mom hand and foot trying to make her comfortable her last few months (that wound up being 10 months instead of the 3 the doctors had given her). Also seeing friends got a bit harder but after 8-10 years of friendship by living near them I had a very strong support network. So my situation was pretty unique.

A couple months before she passed I had gotten an interview from a job I didn't remember applying to so I went to the city and got called in March with an awesome offer for a great company. I wasn't too familiar with the city and my mom's days were limited so I negotiated 3 weeks so I could spend more time with her and figure out the city. When I moved I had saved almost $8,000. It doesn't seem impressive until people realize I was literally making $1,200 a month as a server and had fairly large student loan minimums that ate up ~ fourth of my income. The money I saved paid for some necessary furniture, stocking my new places pantry, household supplies like trashbags, etc, a new work wardrobe for me, paid off my 13% student loan within a month of moving up here and still left me with an emergency fund.

tl;dr I saved about half of my tiny income while living at home so when I got a full time job I could move 90 minutes away and walk to work in an awesome downtown city. If your old friends live nearby it  helps keep you sociable. Hopefully your parents liked your old friends. It helps if you communicate with parents why you want to move back home and what they can expect from you. NObody likes a mooch.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2015, 07:24:23 AM »
My wife and I lived in a garage apartment on my parents' property when we were first married. Totally separate entrance, kitchen, everything. They offered because I was going to grad school nearby, and my wife was able to carpool with my dad to her job. We saved up a ton of money during that time and when I started my real job after I got my degree. My parents are fairly good at boundaries and there were only a couple of times that things were awkward. I mowed their enormous lawn by way of rent.

That said, we were excited to move to our own place.

This is really a case-by-case thing. What point are you at socially? Do you have the self-discipline not to be the guy with a BMW who pays no rent? What are your parents like? These are all questions you need to ask yourself first.

Guizmo

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2015, 07:54:12 AM »
financially, it has been great. I lived out of state for a job for one year and then came back partly because I missed my family too much. I have been living at home now for 2.5 years and I am 25 right now, will soon turn 26. I must have saved somewhere between 60k to 70k. since then on a salary that has gone from around 40k to 50k. I was able to buy a rental condo, which is now paid off now and the rent is great. Right now I am in the process of buying a home that I will move into and I'll rent out the rooms as well to bring down my housing costs once I am out.

My parents don't charge me rent. I think that is okay since they see that I am being responsible with my money. If I had kids, I would do the same, unless they were blowing all their money on crap.

socially, it did hurt a little. My folks give me shit all the time if I come back home after a few beers. The nagging is annoying. It is also difficult romantically. My room is right in front of my parents', so I am not bringing someone back when my parents are right there. They travel often, so those are my chances.

Overall, I think staying at home is going to set me up real nice for FIRE. 

zurich78

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2015, 08:25:06 AM »
I dunno.  I totally get why people would want to stay home after college.

And obviously, there is a big financial benefit in the short term by doing so.  I'm not 100% sure on whether there is a long term benefit though.

There is value in being independent, and struggling, and not having a crutch to lean on.  In learning how to manage your finances not for the goal of accumulating wealth, but, making it and surviving on your own.  There is great value, IMO, in the experience of having only yourself to rely on.

I think for a lot of people, moving back home can cause complacence.  Entitlements are a double-edged sword.


mtn

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2015, 08:43:20 AM »
Graduated college in May 2012, lived with my parents for 3 weeks before my job started, which was in a different location. I think I slept at a friends for 2 days before my sublease started, then alternatively lived at friends houses, subleases, and finally living with my fiance with a face-punch worthy commute (although I was carpooling, and she only had a 2 mile commute).

Then, this January, I got a new job near my folks and have been living with them ever since, at age 25. I honestly love it. There are a few things that annoy me, and it is a weird dynamic where they don't have any say in my behavior and activities anymore, but they own the house and feed me and refuse to accept rent--so they do get to voice opinions and I usually respect and carry out on those wishes--curfew can get a little hard, but it is because they won't sleep if I'm not home. But I get along great with my parents, so it works out for us. Once my fiance gets a job up here, I'm moving out--probably within a week. I have the security deposit and first month rent waiting. But that is mostly because she would probably end up kiling her mother if they lived together again.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 08:46:12 AM by mtn »

rubybeth

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2015, 09:36:17 AM »
Were you dating while you lived at home? How was that experience for you?

Yes, sort of. I didn't go out on a lot of dates and hook up with guys; that's neither my style nor would it have jived with me living at home. But DH and I started seriously dating while I was living at home (we'd been friends for a while). He was also living with relatives at the time, so it wasn't weird. I was 24 and he was 23 and we were both underpaid when we started dating, and then he left for 6 months to do AmeriCorps, and I had just started grad school. When he got back, he also started school. Eventually we discussed moving in together, but decided to just get married instead. ;)

RexualChocolate

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2015, 02:34:18 PM »
If you have a decent enough job, why not move out and start to stand on your own two feet?

Because thats what everyone does, and I want to be WEIRD!

In all seriousness, I have a goal to have a FULLY paid-off home (200-250k) and a ~500k portfolio value by age 30 (9 years from now). Its a super ambitious goal, but its a goal I'm willing to sacrifice for. Throwing away money for rent will not help me reach that goal in the timeframe that I want it to.

I think I get what you mean with "throwing away money on rent" since you have an alternative and it would be superfluous spending, but buying a house is not an investment.

I lived with my parents for a bit after I started working, but moved out as soon as it was reasonable to eliminate the commute and for social reasons. It depends on what type of person you are, where you're working and where your parents live, and what type of people they are.

It worked great for me, but only since it had a definite end date. I paid rent as well, so it was actually cheaper to move to an area with my peer group instead of commuting when factoring in gas costs. Even if it was more expensive to live alone, I hated the car commute and was way too socially isolated out in the suburbs.

I will also say there is a lot less stigma for females to live at home than males.

ambimammular

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Re: For those living @ home after college...
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2015, 05:03:23 PM »
I think a lot depends on your relationship with your parents. Would it be a burden on them to have your extra mouth to feed? Would you be cramping their style? Are they mustachians with a paid off house, urging you to save your dollars instead of wasting them on rent?

Do you get along with them generally? Will they care who you have over or what time of night you breeze in? Will they be trying to control/manipulate/undermine you or the person you date? Will they come to think of your pile of savings as their spending money?

My folks were pretty awesome when I was still trying to get a game plan after college. They made it clear I was welcome anytime. I also had new appreciations for them having had some time and distance. (Thanks for all the clean clothes and dishes over the years! A room to myself, wow! You guys are great!) I didn't pay rent (they would rather it go to my student loans,) but I did cook dinners and keep the house clean. I was employed and putting my money into the bank.

But my parents are the original mustachians, so I wasn't worried about being a burden on them. They didn't want me wasting money on rent. Many people have  financial train wrecks for parents, ones who aren't saving for retirement etc. I wouldn't want to impose myself on parents like that.

As a side note, my brothers are messier than me and I think they needed their time in an apartment to get an appreciation for cooked meals, a stocked fridge, clean clothes...all the things they had taken for granted. As a girl I think those housey things were impressed upon me a bit more, for better or worse. The lower expectations of domestic skill in my brothers has come to bite them in the ass.

Also, Rexual Chocolate had a great point about the social stigma of living at home seeming less strong for ladies. I agree.