Food delivery as a side hustle?

[caracarn]

I wonder if gigs like this allow folks who live in dense areas to confine their delivery area such that delivering via bike were possible.  I'll have to look into it - I could get paid to get some cardio in!

I deliver for Instacart on a bike. The good thing about Instacart is that you get to choose the batches you want to do.  So I only pick small batches from small stores such as pharmacy.  A pharmacy is small enough to shop quickly and people usually get 3 or 4 items, and the items are usually small so it's really easy to carry them on a bike. Works for me.  I only do it when I have a bit of time to spare in between other things. Got $130 this week for an exercise.

This is great.  If I lived in a city (and was younger) I would certainly look at this method over a car.  Lots of density and several apps let you deliver via bike.  In addition to Instacart check out Postmates.

[Dicey]

I wonder if gigs like this allow folks who live in dense areas to confine their delivery area such that delivering via bike were possible.  I'll have to look into it - I could get paid to get some cardio in!

I deliver for Instacart on a bike. The good thing about Instacart is that you get to choose the batches you want to do.  So I only pick small batches from small stores such as pharmacy.  A pharmacy is small enough to shop quickly and people usually get 3 or 4 items, and the items are usually small so it's really easy to carry them on a bike. Works for me.  I only do it when I have a bit of time to spare in between other things. Got $130 this week for an exercise.

If Pete, Mr. Money mustache, gave out gold stars he would give you one!

Why wait for Pete? I can do this! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Good job, @Catica!

[caracarn]

So posting here briefly to share some further detail nearly 3 more months in so now past the 6 months mark of this side hustle.

I will post in the next week or two about my current numbers, but I will say things have gone down a lot, partially by choice and partially not.

If I had to guess, I think the loss of the extra unemployment for people impacted this sector a lot because about a week after 7/31 when that extra amount ended and the last check would have arrived, it became harder to get orders in Grubhub or Doordash for me.   I noticed more time between orders and as the weeks went by it got so bad that in the last month I turn on my phone and wait to get an order before I even leave my house.  It has taken an hour sometimes for an order to appear.  Some days I just shut down the app after 20 minutes knowing that even if one appears it likely means that I can run that one and then would be waiting 30 minutes or more for another.  That is the non-choice side.

On the choice side, as I said when I started, my target was $100 per week to improve my saving rate.  Because of that I determined that I am not going to press things just to try to get some money because I think it shifts the results into the negatives that others have raised on this thread of just burning gas and not making any money.  As the days are shorter it is back to the point when I started in late February that it is dark by around 7 PM and that makes it hard to see the addresses on homes.  I am mulling about if I will buy a handheld spotlight to help over the winter but have not pulled the trigger on that yet.  I had one of these before, for a fun purpose as we did road rallies in Chicago nearly two decades ago, but I had gotten rid of the spotlight a while back as it is not something you need unless you need to read signs and numbers in the dark.  If I do that I may find that working into the night can be less frustrating but for now, given the  dearth of orders I have not done it because I am fine coming back as it gets dark having done two orders.  Right now I target Tuesday and Thursday as the only weeknights I try because my wife works until about 8:30 on those nights anyway so it just makes sense to try then, but as I said some days I do not go at all because no orders appear.  The stranger thing is that Instacart also is now drying up as of the last month.  I used to spend Saturday morning doing Instacart.  I could always find orders, though they may have been less profitable than pre-7/31, but they were there if I wanted to go.  I had since lowered my target to $20 from $30 as it was hard to find anything over $30 as the pandemic has dragged on.  In the last month however there have been two Saturdays with no orders at all at 9 AM when they are released.  This has never happened since I started.  I am hoping it does not get worse.  This past Saturday I got $62 from two orders, which was excellent.  This was after 2 weeks with nothing.  I have not hit $100 in a given week for five weeks now.  I believe my lowest week was $23 when I got Grubhub orders one night and then nothing the rest of the week.  Some weeks I would get one IC order on Saturday morning and then when done nothing to choose from and no other income that week.  Since this is a side hustle it is just a disappointment and not a real problem.  If I relied on this income it would be very stressful.

I will compile the numbers since the last report and provide that soon for those following along.  Obviously miles on the car are much less at this point too.

[robartsd]

Interesting information here. I haven't tried it, but I have a sibling who does this as a side hustle from whom I've heard a bit about how it works and how California's current relevant ballot proposition (22) would affect the landscape (if the proposition fails California will likely see most if not all of these services stop operating here). The proposition provides a minimum earning floor (based on engaged time, not accounting for indirect vehicle expenses, averaged over two week earning period), medical insurances subsidies if meeting engaged time threshold over a calendar quarter, disability insurance for online time, and automotive liability insurance for engaged time.

[caracarn]

OK, so I got everything in through today.

$8,358.11 income
$5,323.72 mileage deductions
Net $3,034.39 taxable so a little under $1,000 in tax right now

[researcher1]

OK, so I got everything in through today.

$8,358.11 income
$5,323.72 mileage deductions
Net $3,034.39 taxable so a little under $1,000 in tax right now

What do you mean by "mileage deductions"?  How did you calculate that?

Mileage deduction is not writing off that expense.  It is not a tax credit.
It only lowers the amount of GROSS INCOME that you are taxed on.

Also, do you have more than $24,000 worth of itemized tax deductions?
If not, then you would be better off taking the standard deduction, which means you would get zero "mileage deductions" benefit.

Lastly, you still haven't outlined your expenses.
Fuel, maintenance, wear/tear, ect.

[Paul der Krake]

What do you mean by "mileage deductions"?  How did you calculate that?

Mileage deduction is not writing off that expense.  It is not a tax credit.
It only lowers the amount of GROSS INCOME that you are taxed on.

Also, do you have more than $24,000 worth of itemized tax deductions?
If not, then you would be better off taking the standard deduction, which means you would get zero "mileage deductions" benefit.

That's not how this works. Business deductions incurred during the course of self-employment, which is what OP is engaging in, go on Schedule C and are completely separate from personal deductions (itemized vs standard).

[MoseyingAlong]

OK, so I got everything in through today.

$8,358.11 income
$5,323.72 mileage deductions
Net $3,034.39 taxable so a little under $1,000 in tax right now

What do you mean by "mileage deductions"?  How did you calculate that?
........
Lastly, you still haven't outlined your expenses.
Fuel, maintenance, wear/tear, ect.

Car expenses for a business are calculated one of two ways.
Standard mileage rate which is set annually by the IRS. Sounds like this is what the OP is using.
Or...Actual expenses (fuel, maintenance, etc. as you list)

You use one or the other, not both. Over years as a tax preparer, it was almost always better for my clients to use the standard mileage deduction. Not least, due to the easier record-keeping. As a guess, the OP's actual expenses are probably less than the standard mileage deduction. But maybe not if they are doing a lot of idling, waiting around. They'd have to figure that for their situation.

[jamesbond007]

OK, so I got everything in through today.

$8,358.11 income
$5,323.72 mileage deductions
Net $3,034.39 taxable so a little under $1,000 in tax right now

I am curious, how much did you spend on gas and additional insurance? Did you add it all up? Curious to find out.

[researcher1]

That's not how this works. Business deductions incurred during the course of self-employment, which is what OP is engaging in, go on Schedule C and are completely separate from personal deductions (itemized vs standard).

Got it.

So after taxes, his income was ~$7300.
If the OP calculated his "mileage deductions" using the IRS rate of 57.5 cents/mile, that means he drove ~9,300 miles.

He needs to subtract his costs for fuel, oil changes, tire rotations, pro-rated tires/brakes/filters/fluids, additional insurance, ect.
Then estimate how much of the life of his car he used up (based on how long he typically keeps his vehicles).

After all of that, he would have his net income.
I would be interested in what that number is.

[robartsd]

That's not how this works. Business deductions incurred during the course of self-employment, which is what OP is engaging in, go on Schedule C and are completely separate from personal deductions (itemized vs standard).

Got it.

So after taxes, his income was ~$7300.
If the OP calculated his "mileage deductions" using the IRS rate of 57.5 cents/mile, that means he drove ~9,300 miles.

He needs to subtract his costs for fuel, oil changes, tire rotations, pro-rated tires/brakes/filters/fluids, additional insurance, ect.
Then estimate how much of the life of his car he used up (based on how long he typically keeps his vehicles).

After all of that, he would have his net income.
I would be interested in what that number is.

OP has stated a few times about fuel, oil change, and insurance. Insurance on the car being used was changed to a separate carrier than the rest of the family cars with only the OP and his wife as drivers. Delivery use is covered and overall insurance went down (excluded teenage drivers from this car). I imagine that the direct costs for the driving have been close to $1000 and that the overall cost including wear & tear/depreciation is probably closer to half the standard mileage rate. After total vehicle expenses this is still at least $5000 income (about $2000 tax free due to costs below standard mileage rate). Overall the compensation is probably still about minimum wage (but could be well below minimum wage in an anti-mustachian car).

[researcher1]

Overall the compensation is probably still about minimum wage.

This is the point I'm getting at.

The OP has stated a few contradictory things about fuel/maintenance/repairs/ect.
He's clearly fixated on the gross income, but is nonchalant about all of the many costs incurred to earn this income.

I agree his net income / total hours is probably about minimum wage.
Which doesn't seem like the greatest use of his nights and weekends.
Spending time with friends/family, hobbies, work/chores around the house, exercise is hopefully worth more than a minimum wage job (on top of his full-time job).

It appears he has racked up nearly 10K miles of driving in just the few months he's been doing this.
This means he'll be replacing vehicles about twice as often as he would otherwise.  This is a huge factor the OP is not accounting for.

[trollwithamustache]

OK, so I got everything in through today.

$8,358.11 income
$5,323.72 mileage deductions
Net $3,034.39 taxable so a little under $1,000 in tax right now

What do you mean by "mileage deductions"?  How did you calculate that?

Mileage deduction is not writing off that expense.  It is not a tax credit.
It only lowers the amount of GROSS INCOME that you are taxed on.

Also, do you have more than $24,000 worth of itemized tax deductions?
If not, then you would be better off taking the standard deduction, which means you would get zero "mileage deductions" benefit.

Lastly, you still haven't outlined your expenses.
Fuel, maintenance, wear/tear, ect.

Researcher, A lot of your tax advice is misleading to make the Side hustle look bad.
 
OP is paid on a 1099, so he should be deducting expenses on a schedule C and this has no bearing on his "deductions" on other parts of the  tax return.

[researcher1]

OP is paid on a 1099, so he should be deducting expenses on a schedule C and this has no bearing on his "deductions" on other parts of the  tax return.

Agreed.
This was pointed out a few posts ago by Paul.

[caracarn]

So rather than respond to each individual post, just jumping in here.

So yes, Paul, troll and others are right.

This is self employment income and is reported on Schedule C along with deductions, at the IRS rate, which is a direct removal of taxable income, i.e you take income subtract expenses and you are taxed only on the remainder, in this case $3,000.  The IRS deduction is meant to compensate for the wear/tear, fuel etc as you cannot remove those expense in addition to the deduction and also means there is little value in calculating those separately, though I had gone through and done that earlier on.  In short you are getting more back at 57.5 cents than you typically spend, which is why many people, including me have used their personal car for along road trip for an employer as you get much more back in your reimbursement.  Yes there is wear/tear on the car, but in this case I am getting paid to use the car not just wearing it out. 

Look at this another way.  Most of the services are paying you on average 0.60/mile for the delivery (they pay other items but the mileage calculation for GrubHub is that for example) AND you can deduct the expense at 57.5 along with that, basically washing out that income and "getting it back" so to speak. 

On the insurance side, yes it was cheaper to insure for delivery with another insurer than I was paying without and that insurance is not marked up for delivery, meaning it would not be cheaper to be insured with them even if I did not deliver, so again, this is almost like getting that insurance or free, because I am.  It is included in the coverage and happens to cost me less.  Add in that the monthly cost dropped from $69/month to $56 because of good driving for six months and the low mileage given that right now I drive very little for anything else and this has gotten even less expensive.

On the personal time side, it is true I could lose time with family.   So I choose to do this when my wife is working late into the night on Tuesdays and Thursdays with students and when she works on Saturday morning until noon.  So I would be sitting around by myself waiting for her to be done.  Instead I have turned that time into an income opportunity as well.  If you look at the last three months versus the first four months you will see that the income is much less, that is because I spend much less time doing it, because I am choosing to not let it eat into time I would rather do something else.  The lower order volume I spoke of also makes it a bit of a necessity because some nights there are just no orders.

The $24,000 deduction has nothing to do with the income here are others have said.  Schedule C is self contained for the most part and these expenses are 100% deductible as it is the most basic IRS mileage and therefore does not raise any red flags if I tried to claim other expense, but I am not, because I cannot.  The mileage deduction is all you can take for a car.  We do the same thing with my wife as a self-employed teacher.  All those miles getting to schools etc. is deductible in the same way though she has other expense such as training and supplies, which I do not in this case.

So researcher, I did absolutely shows all my expenses above for the 4 months time frame.  The expenses have tracked the same.  At this point it is one extra tank of gas for the whole month for the lower hours.  Insurance is free as we talked about.  Yes, I have to replace the car earlier, but I have already made about what the cost of a replacement used car would be in the course of a single year.  That accounts for all my expenses.  I wouild argue in that case that once I get to $10K (the cost of a replacement car) everything I make after that is pure profit as I have covered all my expenses. 

[researcher1]

So researcher, I did absolutely shows all my expenses above for the 4 months time frame. 

Just for everyone to see what your total costs were, could you summarize the key information here?

Gross Income - $8,358.11
Taxes - ~ $1,000
Commissions/Fees - ?
Miles Driven - ?
Average MPG - ?
Fuel Costs - ?
Oil Changes/Tire Rotations - ?
Other Maintenance - ?
Estimated Pro-Rated Costs (tires/brakes/filters/fluids/ect) - ?

[Arbitrage]

I wonder if gigs like this allow folks who live in dense areas to confine their delivery area such that delivering via bike were possible.  I'll have to look into it - I could get paid to get some cardio in!

I deliver for Instacart on a bike. The good thing about Instacart is that you get to choose the batches you want to do.  So I only pick small batches from small stores such as pharmacy.  A pharmacy is small enough to shop quickly and people usually get 3 or 4 items, and the items are usually small so it's really easy to carry them on a bike. Works for me.  I only do it when I have a bit of time to spare in between other things. Got $130 this week for an exercise.

This is great.  If I lived in a city (and was younger) I would certainly look at this method over a car.  Lots of density and several apps let you deliver via bike.  In addition to Instacart check out Postmates.

Yeah, I've considered doing this, but only by (e-)bike.  Likely after FIRE.  No real desire to do it by car. 

[secondcor521]

It's interesting to see the back and forth on the tax side of things.

One thing that should enter into the calculus is self-employment taxes.  I don't recall all the details offhand, but basically you get to pay both sides of Social Security and Medicare taxes, which is 15.3% of net income - see Schedule SE.  You do get a deduction for 1/2 of the SE taxes, but the value of that I think would depend on the OP's tax bracket (which I'm guessing is in the 12% bracket range - so I think it would be 7.65% x ~12% or less than 1% of net income).  See Schedule 1 line 14.  The OP has probably racked up about a 14.4% self-employment tax bill, or $432 in taxes.

OP might also check into deducting health insurance as a self-employed person if they qualify.  See Schedule 1 line 16.  The value of this deduction would depend on the OP's health insurance costs.  I'm fairly certain that these would have to be after-tax health care premiums, so if they get health insurance through their day job this would not apply.

OP might also qualify for the QBI deduction, which is generally 20% of net income, but there are limitations and rules.  See Form 1040 line 10.  This would be a deduction of $600, which assuming a 12% tax rate would be about $72 less in taxes owed.

[trollwithamustache]

Now that we've flushed the Schd C out in the open, OP is Dramatically under reporting his costs. Gloriously and Horrendously so in fact!

I don't see any costs for his cell phone or phone bill, which is required for the job. is 25% or 75% of it deductible on the sch C? only OP, his accountant and his pastor can make that judgment as to what percentage is it used for the business.

OP presumably has a small home office that he uses for planning this venture, and posting things like this journal where he tracks and evaluates his business.

OP may have had other necessary IT costs to support the business. Does he use his home internet service 15-20% for the business?  I bet by the time he's done, OP will have hardly made anything.

For a poor guy with almost no profits, he might find himself with a confusing amount of cash.  As others have noted, he will have to pay self employment taxes on the small accounting profit, but not the cash pile.

[Paul der Krake]

Right, deducting costs that are kinda-sorta-fixed is the name of the game when you run a small business. Anything you can deduct just disappears from the revenue line, never to be taxed.

A good example is home internet service. Whether I use the internet solely for pleasure or 50/50 for work/pleasure, I still have to pay $49.99 to the internet mafia beloved ISP every month. There is no increased cost because there is no way in hell I'd live without internet at home. I didn't get a faster package for business purposes, there is no increased wear and tear on my router and modem.

Same thing for the phone line. I'm already at the cheapest plan possible that has all the features I want for pleasure. But you bet I'm deducting some of that for business use.

We also chose to pay for dental insurance even though it's basically the same price as paying cash. Insurance is a deductible expense, cash visits are not.

The list of micro-optimizations goes on and on and on...

[caracarn]

So researcher, I did absolutely shows all my expenses above for the 4 months time frame. 

Just for everyone to see what your total costs were, could you summarize the key information here?

Gross Income - $8,358.11
Taxes - ~ $1,000
Commissions/Fees - $0
Miles Driven - 9,258
Average MPG - 27
Fuel Costs - $617.40
Oil Changes/Tire Rotations - $186(use the car for regular driving to so these costs are all not comparable)
Other Maintenance - None
Estimated Pro-Rated Costs (tires/brakes/filters/fluids/ect) - No idea how you'd like me to answer this

So the general agreement is this by anyone who does this "The standard mileage rate is pretty generous unless you drive a gas guzzler.  It far exceeds the costs per mile you incur".  Quote taken from the tax tracking app I use for my income and expenses.  What this means is that what I spend on gas and tires and oil is really irrelevant because that is what the mileage deduction helps cover.  The tires I have in the car lasted 90K miles for the first set and I am on that pace for the second set as I am about at 5 to 7 on the wear measure at nearly 130K on the car and the set installed is $317 for 4 or 0.3 cents per mile.  If I had a beater or bought stupidly expensive parts this would be a losing gig.  As I am a Mustachian I optimize everything including my car costs.  Oil and tire rotations are 1.6 cents per mile.  Gas is 7 cents per mile.  Again, getting 57.5 cents per mile is extravagantly generous to cover my 8.9 cents per mile costs and help save for the wear and tear that gets me to a replacement car. 

[secondcor521]

Again, getting 57.5 cents per mile is extravagantly generous to cover my 8.9 cents per mile costs and help save for the wear and tear that gets me to a replacement car.

To be clear, the 57.5 cents per mile the IRS uses is a deduction against your business income, so you'd have to multiply it by your marginal rate to determine your actual economic benefit.  Assuming a 12% marginal rate, that's about 7 cents a mile.

I think elsewhere you said that one of the services you work for pays you a mileage rate of 60 cents a mile or something.  If that's on top of the delivery fee, that's helpful, and would be different and separate from the tax benefit.

Just don't think that you're getting 57.5 cents from the IRS for every mile you drive.  You're not.

...

Also, even if you don't know how to calculate it, the overall depletion / depreciation / whatever you want to call it is probably one of your bigger costs, and it's a real cost.  You could do some rough estimates by figuring out how much you pay for a new car, what it's worth when you sell it, how many years you keep it, how many miles you drive, and then what percentage of those miles are business miles to get a rough figure.

[StashingAway]

Again, getting 57.5 cents per mile is extravagantly generous to cover my 8.9 cents per mile costs and help save for the wear and tear that gets me to a replacement car.

You don't "get" anything, you just aren't taxed on expenses that you deduct. Including mileage. It's the whole "spend $500 to save $50" argument. It is worth something for sure- and anyone who runs a business will gladly deduct any business expenses. But you aren't earning anything soley by driving around at a lower cost than IRS standard mileage.

Also, even if you don't know how to calculate it, the overall depletion / depreciation / whatever you want to call it is probably one of your bigger costs, and it's a real cost.  You could do some rough estimates by figuring out how much you pay for a new car, what it's worth when you sell it, how many years you keep it, how many miles you drive, and then what percentage of those miles are business miles to get a rough figure.

+1

[researcher1]

What this means is that what I spend on gas and tires and oil is really irrelevant because that is what the mileage deduction helps cover.
Again, getting 57.5 cents per mile is extravagantly generous to cover my 8.9 cents per mile costs and help save for the wear and tear that gets me to a replacement car.

As others have repeatedly pointed out, your thinking here is completely wrong.

StashingAway -
"Mmmmm, no, that's not quite how it works. The deduction in taxes doesn't make up for cost of ownership. You are making the same common mistake that people do when donating to charity. If you donate $7k in charity, that doesn't reduce your tax bill by $7k.
You don't "get" anything, you just aren't taxed on expenses that you deduct. Including mileage. It's the whole "spend $500 to save $50" argument.  But you aren't earning anything soley by driving around at a lower cost than IRS standard mileage. "

Secondcor -
"To be clear, the 57.5 cents per mile the IRS uses is a deduction against your business income, so you'd have to multiply it by your marginal rate to determine your actual economic benefit.  Assuming a 12% marginal rate, that's about 7 cents a mile.  Just don't think that you're getting 57.5 cents from the IRS for every mile you drive.  You're not.
Also, even if you don't know how to calculate it, the overall depletion / depreciation / whatever you want to call it is probably one of your bigger costs, and it's a real cost." 

Your real earnings are dramatically lower than you are stating here, because you're not accounting for your costs.

[robartsd]

Secondcor -
"To be clear, the 57.5 cents per mile the IRS uses is a deduction against your business income, so you'd have to multiply it by your marginal rate to determine your actual economic benefit.  Assuming a 12% marginal rate, that's about 7 cents a mile.  Just don't think that you're getting 57.5 cents from the IRS for every mile you drive.  You're not.
Also, even if you don't know how to calculate it, the overall depletion / depreciation / whatever you want to call it is probably one of your bigger costs, and it's a real cost." 

Don't forget that the 57.5 cents per mile is also reducing the income subject to self employment tax (15.3%). That makes the total value about 15.6 cents per mile reduction of tax liability if in the 12% marginal income tax bracket (not to mention state taxes). Of course reduced self employment tax comes with reduced social security earnings to base benefits off of.

[BTDretire]

I've read most of this and would calculate all this in a slightly different way.
I have thrown in numbers to fill the spot, I don't expect they are correct.
Gas $0,10
Maintenance .05
Insurance $?
Auto depreciation $?
and other costs $?
Say this totals $0.30 per mile. Call this Costs
Earnings average $12 per hour (peak means nothing, it's total $/hrs worked)
(Earnings minus Costs). $11.70
Hours worked x ( Earnings minus Costs) = Net earnings
Net earnings minus ($0.57 x miles) = taxable earnings before taxes
Taxable earning minus taxes + SS taxes = after tax earnings
After tax earnings divided by hours = pay per hour.
 I may have missed or added something not needed.
Any care to guestimate numbers for this?

[jamesbond007]

I've read most of this and would calculate all this in a slightly different way.
I have thrown in numbers to fill the spot, I don't expect they are correct.
Gas $0,10
Maintenance .05
Insurance $?
Auto depreciation $?
and other costs $?
Say this totals $0.30 per mile. Call this Costs
Earnings average $12 per hour (peak means nothing, it's total $/hrs worked)
(Earnings minus Costs). $11.70
Hours worked x ( Earnings minus Costs) = Net earnings
Net earnings minus ($0.57 x miles) = taxable earnings before taxes
Taxable earning minus taxes + SS taxes = after tax earnings
After tax earnings divided by hours = pay per hour.
 I may have missed or added something not needed.
Any care to guestimate numbers for this?

It looks like you are assuming 1 mile per hour driven. In reality it is more $1/mile for DoorDash income (Based on my experience). So if you are assumign $12/hr, then it must be about 12 miles driven. So costs per hour is $3.60 (Assuming your calculation of $0.30). So earnings minus costs in your calculation is $8.40 and not $11.70

[robartsd]

I think $0.30/mile is a pretty good estimate of total cost for a reasonable car. Going with revenue estimate of $1/mile driven, you get $0.70/mile earned ($0.425/mile taxable earnings). $15/hour earned would require about 21.5 miles driven each hour which seems plausible  if everything is going smoothly.

[BTDretire]

It looks like you are assuming 1 mile per hour driven.

As I said, " I don't expect they are correct." I didn't assume anything , if you see an error, change what I wrote, I don't see where what you say should change what I wrote. You mat be correct, I just don't understand what you want changed.
 

[caracarn]

Again, getting 57.5 cents per mile is extravagantly generous to cover my 8.9 cents per mile costs and help save for the wear and tear that gets me to a replacement car.

You don't "get" anything, you just aren't taxed on expenses that you deduct. Including mileage. It's the whole "spend $500 to save $50" argument. It is worth something for sure- and anyone who runs a business will gladly deduct any business expenses. But you aren't earning anything soley by driving around at a lower cost than IRS standard mileage.

Also, even if you don't know how to calculate it, the overall depletion / depreciation / whatever you want to call it is probably one of your bigger costs, and it's a real cost.  You could do some rough estimates by figuring out how much you pay for a new car, what it's worth when you sell it, how many years you keep it, how many miles you drive, and then what percentage of those miles are business miles to get a rough figure.

+1

OK, so my response was a bit cavalier, I admit, because I felt this has been asked and answered at least three times.

What it was getting it is that is is pretty commonly accepted that the IRS deduction of expenses more than fairly compensates for the business use of a private vehicle.  Going through the exercise to prove what most commonly accept is not an exercise I want to waste time one because I fall into that category.  It is similar to someone asking me to prove that humans breathe oxygen.  Sure I could go through the effort, but most people accept this as common fact, so why bother?

There are very few points where this is not true.  In my market, I have all the clear positives that show that I am not in a position where things go poorly for me. I do not live in a congested area, so I am not sitting around in traffic literally ever.  In NYC or LA these jobs tend to be losers but here in fly over country where we move along at 50+ miles per hour almost everywhere I get between stops very efficiently.  This also means I avoid the worst wear and tear on a car:  stop and go traffic.  I also have a fairly fuel efficient car and use my speed sensitive cruise 90%+ of the time even on city street because my car will go all the way to a full stop if needed.  That also helps increase my MPG, as I have run sessions with and without using it and find I average about 2 MPG better using the cruise. 

I believe I have responded to most, if not all, of the other, "yeah, but" options asked about saying that does not apply. 

In short, I believe the lens most view these services through is large metro areas that are densely populated as this is where these services tend to be in more popular use, but for all intents and purposes one needs to look at my situation are doing this in farm country in Iowa and Nebraska with long stretches of clear road between the restaurant and the house I am going to which allows me to feel this is a worthwhile enterprise for now.  I enjoy the activity.  Am I going to get rich off it?  Of course not, nor is that my goal.  I am looking to make a few thousand dollars a year more money, and this clearly does that. 

This has started to feel like an exercise in futility (convincing reasarcher1 I am not an idiot).  No matter what I present, I will get a "yeah, but" and I just am not willing to keep engaging there.  My point was to share with other my experience of food delivery as a side hustle.  There is honestly very little that would not make me recommend this to someone in my circumstances:  Looking for an easy gig to make some extra cash with some extra time is you enjoy driving and you enjoy people and enjoy the gamification of this particular type of service.  To me I make more than I would make in retail or food service, which are the other common alternatives for easy gigs to get and make a little cash on, and I enjoy it a whole lot more because of the flexibility of doing in whenever I want and not having to be an employee in the fast food or retail industry, which I have done in my teens, so I understand that gig.  This, in my opinion, is like working on a luxury yacht compared to the slog that is those similar paying jobs.

[robartsd]

I never would have thought this would pay well in farm country. I understand the reduction in cost per mile, but I would also expect to have lower revenue per mile driven due to more miles between dropping off an order and picking up the next one.

[researcher1]

OK, so my response was a bit cavalier, I admit, because I felt this has been asked and answered at least three times.
What it was getting it is that is is pretty commonly accepted that the IRS deduction of expenses more than fairly compensates for the business use of a private vehicle. 
I believe I have responded to most, if not all, of the other, "yeah, but" options asked about saying that does not apply. 
This has started to feel like an exercise in futility (convincing reasarcher1 I am not an idiot).  No matter what I present, I will get a "yeah, but" and I just am not willing to keep engaging there. 

It is not just me who has attempted to point out the major flaw in your line of thinking, which you are still failing to acknowledge.

You've said the following in this thread...
- fuel costs, wear/tear ect ... can be ignored.
- what I spend on gas and tires and oil is really irrelevant 
- getting 57.5 cents per mile is extravagantly generous.
- IRS deduction of expenses more than fairly compensates for the business use of a private vehicle

All of these costs ARE relevant and can NOT be ignored. You are NOT "getting" 57.5 cents per mile from the IRS.

I'll point out again what other people have tried to tell you...
- Mmmmm, no, that's not quite how it works. The deduction in taxes doesn't make up for cost of ownership. You are making the same common mistake that people do when donating to charity. If you donate $7k in charity, that doesn't reduce your tax bill by $7k.
- You don't "get" anything, you just aren't taxed on expenses that you deduct. Including mileage. It's the whole "spend $500 to save $50" argument.  But you aren't earning anything soley by driving around at a lower cost than IRS standard mileage.
- To be clear, the 57.5 cents per mile the IRS uses is a deduction against your business income, so you'd have to multiply it by your marginal rate to determine your actual economic benefit.  Assuming a 12% marginal rate, that's about 7 cents a mile.  Just don't think that you're getting 57.5 cents from the IRS for every mile you drive.  You're not.
- Also, even if you don't know how to calculate it, the overall depletion / depreciation / whatever you want to call it is probably one of your bigger costs, and it's a real cost.

You can't just dismiss these costs.
Especially considering you're running your car into the ground with 15K+ miles/year in around town delivery miles.

[Runrooster]

having used my car to drive for work (many times at an office job we had we took advantage of not renting a car and instead driving our own on a business trip and claiming the mileage because we felt the pay far outpaced the maintenance and gas). 

Right, when you work an office job or when I worked for the federal government, you would actually be reimbursed at the going rate, around 57.5 cents/mile.  This is worth doing because your actual expense is probably less than that.

But DoorDash and GrubHub don't reimburse.  According to google, only grubhub reimburses anything, and even with them they only reimburse maybe 1/4 of the mileage.  First they only pay from restaurant to customer, not to the next restaurant or back home, cutting mileage in half.  Second, they don't pay navigational miles, but "as the crow flies" miles, cutting it in half again.

The IRS, in contrast, doesn't reimburse you anything.  They simply dont tax you or charge you self-employment for those miles. If your actual expense is 30 cents, then you save paying taxes on 27.5 cents.  In the 25% bracket you save 7.7 cents/mile, or $715 for 9300 miles.  But you still had $3000 in car expenses.

[Arbitrage]

Agreed with those who have noted that while the IRS reimbursement rate is fine (as long as you don't have a car that was either an expensive purchase or is expensive to maintain) when you're getting fully reimbursed for that cost, a tax deduction at that rate is far smaller and is not nearly enough to compensate you for the cost of operating a car. 

[caracarn]

OK, so let me ask it another way.

Saturday happened to be quite good this week.

I made $150 Saturday and drove about 100 miles so did not buy any gas.  Are those of you saying I am missing something in this estimation saying that somehow it cost be over $150 to operate my car that day? 

[researcher1]

I made $150 Saturday and drove about 100 miles so did not buy any gas.  Are those of you saying I am missing something in this estimation saying that somehow it cost be over $150 to operate my car that day?

No one is saying your costs exceed your $150 income.
Instead, we are saying there are costs you blindly ignore, which significantly reduces that $150 income.

In your example above, you said you drove 100 miles and "did not buy any gas".
But that doesn't mean you didn't use fuel and incur costs over those 100 miles!!!

Your costs for that trip...about 4 gallons of fuel and pro-rated costs for oil changes/tire rotations/tires/brakes/filters/fluids/reduced vehicle life/ect.

There have been two more posters pointing out your flawed interpretation of the IRS mileage.  We're up to about six separate people who have outlined why you are wrong on this.  The new comments...
- "Right, when you work an office job or when I worked for the federal government, you would actually be reimbursed at the going rate, around 57.5 cents/mile.  This is worth doing because your actual expense is probably less than that.  The IRS, in contrast, doesn't reimburse you anything...In the 25% bracket you save 7.7 cents/mile, or $715 for 9300 miles.  But you still had $3000 in car expenses."
- "Agreed with those who have noted that while the IRS reimbursement rate is fine when you're getting fully reimbursed for that cost, a tax deduction at that rate is far smaller and is not nearly enough to compensate you for the cost of operating a car."

[StashingAway]

OK, so let me ask it another way.

Saturday happened to be quite good this week.

I made $150 Saturday and drove about 100 miles so did not buy any gas.  Are those of you saying I am missing something in this estimation saying that somehow it cost be over $150 to operate my car that day?

That's not what anyone is saying, but this is a good exercise to figure out how much was made.

$150 cash is brought in. Let me see if I can work through this right.

Deduct actual cost-to-run vehicle expenses (including gas). Let's go with the 8.9c per mile that is being suggested here. Round to 9c for easier math.

-$9 actual running expenses.

Ok, now let's take out taxes. 15% self employment tax on earnings. But you can deduct mileage from your earnings. Federal tax rate on mileage is 57.5 c per mile. So in the Fed's eyes, you made 150 - (57.5c/mile)100miles = 150 - $57.5 = $92.5. This number could be reduced further if you include deducting other expenses- cell phone, etc. But that's difficult to do in this scenario because you need to pro-rate it at contractor use vs personal use. For now we'll say 15% of that $92.5 is $13.89 ~ $14.

$150 earnings - $9 (running costs) -$14 (taxes) = $127 net gain for the weekend.. This number will go lower as your actual running costs go up. I suspect running costs are quite a bit higher for most people, but those are the numbers that are being suggested in this thread. The Fed thinks that 57.5c is fair, so even if you are at half that you are at 27c/mile. (which would make the net gain at $114). My personal opinion is that this is the easiest part to underestimate. One ball joint replacement or one new fuel pump or whatever can significantly change the numbers. Plus there are unseen costs; more likely to get in an accident (insurance rates go up), the opportunity cost of other work or interesting hobbies, etc.

How many hours were you working? From when you decided to jump in the car to when you were pulling back in the drive? What do the numbers look like on an "average day" vs a good day? Essentially you'd have to do this exercise for a few months to really know. These variable rate earnings are a little like gambling, where you remember the "wins" disproportional from the "losses"

[researcher1]

That's not what anyone is saying, but this is a good exercise to figure out how much was made.

Deduct actual cost-to-run vehicle expenses (including gas). Let's go with the 8.9c per mile that is being suggested here. Round to 9c for easier math.
$150 earnings - $9 (running costs) -$14 (taxes) = $127 net gain for the weekend..

This number will go lower as your actual running costs go up. I suspect running costs are quite a bit higher for most people, but those are the numbers that are being suggested in this thread.

These variable rate earnings are a little like gambling, where you remember the "wins" disproportional from the "losses"

As you gently suggested, the OP is grossly underestimating his expenses with the laughable $0.09/mile.

This trip likely incurred costs of $0.09/mile in just fuel alone! (~100 miles, 27 MPG, $2.25/gal).

Then you have to add all of the other costs associated with operating a vehicle.
A huge part of the equation the OP has completely ignored is the vehicle life being used up with this side job.
He is adding 15K-20K miles/year just in delivery miles, yet assuming there is no cost associated with this!

[Runrooster]

Think of the numbers you originally offered:
earned gross: 8400
tax: $1000
gas, oil: $800
net: $6600 earned

What we're suggesting is that real earnings is mayb4e $2000 less than that, accounting for full wear and tear on the car.
That means your net earnings are $4600, almost a 33%reduction.

You didn't mention how many hours it took you to earn that money.

[trollwithamustache]

All you guys need to stop arguing about the mileage deduction and get yourselves a halfway decent accountant.

Good side hustles produce more cashflow than taxable income.

OP what is your marginal tax rate? This is really important to value the costs that are written off.

[caracarn]

That's not what anyone is saying, but this is a good exercise to figure out how much was made.

Deduct actual cost-to-run vehicle expenses (including gas). Let's go with the 8.9c per mile that is being suggested here. Round to 9c for easier math.
$150 earnings - $9 (running costs) -$14 (taxes) = $127 net gain for the weekend..

This number will go lower as your actual running costs go up. I suspect running costs are quite a bit higher for most people, but those are the numbers that are being suggested in this thread.

These variable rate earnings are a little like gambling, where you remember the "wins" disproportional from the "losses"

As you gently suggested, the OP is grossly underestimating his expenses with the laughable $0.09/mile.

This trip likely incurred costs of $0.09/mile in just fuel alone! (~100 miles, 27 MPG, $2.25/gal).

Then you have to add all of the other costs associated with operating a vehicle.
A huge part of the equation the OP has completely ignored is the vehicle life being used up with this side job.
He is adding 15K-20K miles/year just in delivery miles, yet assuming there is no cost associated with this!

I am not ignoring them.  I know they are there.

My point was, I will assume that the life of my car drops from 10 years to 5, so I am replacing the car every 5 years.  Is it then not fair for the question to be, did I make enough money to replace the car and then make some as well? 

I will likely end up with at least $10K made this year, so that would mean $50K earned over 5 years.  If I purchase a replacement car for $15-20K to avoid any concern that I cannot get a decent, reliable vehicle that can repeat the cycle, then the other $30-$35K is there to cover all the other costs (fuel, tax) etc. 

The challenge here is the rabbit hole this can go down to try to figure out the costs is always prone to now being accurate.  I use the car outside of food delivery.  When my water pump fails was it really because of the delivery, or would it have failed anyway just owning the car and making no money with it?  If I only deliver on sunny days does that mean i can ignore wiper costs because those only happen on the personal time?  You can see what I am getting at about how this seem to me to be an exercise in minutiae.  If i make even 1 cent of profit does that not mean that this is a money making effort?  I do not think anyone who had posted thus far will argue that I am losing money here.  The rub seems to be am I making as much as what?  I claim?  i have never claimed to be making any amount, I have just been sharing the details of what I am doing so that others can learn from them and make their own decision. 

I also struggle to equate being concerned about all the expenses when those things are not considered in a "real" job.  If I was to work fast food would everyone be worried about the wear and tear on my car?  Of course not, because driving to work is assumed to be part of having a job.  Taxes would also not matter because we all understand income is taxed.  No one tells a fast food worker do not work at McDonald's because your tax rate it too high.  I understand self employment tax quite well.  Either my wife or I have had some for of self employment income for the better part of two decades.  The goal of that game is to lower the taxable wages as much as possible by offsetting expenses.  Mileage is one that I am not paying to receive, versus say advertising or inventory, where I would have $1 in expense for every $1 I claimed.  Here I have some fraction of 57.5 cents of expense for every mile.  We can again get into minutiae about how much that really is.  Is it  9 cents of 20?  So when I say I "get" something here, I do mean that in a somewhat literal sense.  I am spending a fraction of that expense but get to claim 100% of the mileage expense, so I view it as a better "deal" that the other business expenses I get to deduct.  So why is the calculus here need to me any more complicated than am I spending less over all than what I am being paid?

I understand we are trying to make it clear to someone examining this as a side hustle what the situation would be using my experience as a model.  I am happy to provide any numbers anyone wants that I can provide.  At this point almost all $8,000 I have made have gone into the stock market in my index funds.  In this case that has also made me money as the market is up over that time.   I understand that can change tomorrow, but there are shares I own that I can make even more money with that I would not have owned because my overall income would have been $8K less. 

My foray into this at this time was to determine if this is a legitimate side hustle when I RE and have a bad stock year and need to find a way to make $5-10K to make up the difference.  At this point it would seem to be.  It appears others see it differently, though my question is still if you are not seeing it as a losing proposition why is it a bad idea?  Is it because it does not reach some percent return threshold?  I look at the last article the MMM posted where one of the sets of numbers was $2,800 in rent against $2,250 in expenses for a $550 profit.  I understand that real estate appreciates and the asset itself is able to be sold unlike a car that eventually is worth $0, but I seem to be missing the point of how making $1,000/month and spending about $300 at best is not viewed with a similar positive viewpoint?

[caracarn]

All you guys need to stop arguing about the mileage deduction and get yourselves a halfway decent accountant.

Good side hustles produce more cashflow than taxable income.

OP what is your marginal tax rate? This is really important to value the costs that are written off.

This year will likely again hit 35%

[caracarn]

Think of the numbers you originally offered:
earned gross: 8400
tax: $1000
gas, oil: $800
net: $6600 earned

What we're suggesting is that real earnings is mayb4e $2000 less than that, accounting for full wear and tear on the car.
That means your net earnings are $4600, almost a 33%reduction.

You didn't mention how many hours it took you to earn that money

Ok but that is $4,600 I made even after all the costs right?  So how is that a bad thing?

I do not track all the hours, as I am not paid hourly, but when I calculated my earnings for months to figure out my hourly rate as I said it is at least $15/hour and more accurately between $18-$22 so I guess that means I worked between 560 and 382 hours.

[StashingAway]

That's not what anyone is saying, but this is a good exercise to figure out how much was made.

Deduct actual cost-to-run vehicle expenses (including gas). Let's go with the 8.9c per mile that is being suggested here. Round to 9c for easier math.
$150 earnings - $9 (running costs) -$14 (taxes) = $127 net gain for the weekend..

This number will go lower as your actual running costs go up. I suspect running costs are quite a bit higher for most people, but those are the numbers that are being suggested in this thread.

These variable rate earnings are a little like gambling, where you remember the "wins" disproportional from the "losses"

As you gently suggested, the OP is grossly underestimating his expenses with the laughable $0.09/mile.

This trip likely incurred costs of $0.09/mile in just fuel alone! (~100 miles, 27 MPG, $2.25/gal).

Then you have to add all of the other costs associated with operating a vehicle.
A huge part of the equation the OP has completely ignored is the vehicle life being used up with this side job.
He is adding 15K-20K miles/year just in delivery miles, yet assuming there is no cost associated with this!

It's also the one I have the least ability to contest because of variance and luck. Someone could go out an buy a $3000 Hyundai Elantra with 150k miles on it, drive it for 100K miles doing minimal maintenance and sell it for $1000 while getting 35mpgs. In that type of scenario it's feasible to get under the 10c/mile scenario. Plenty of people have done it, but it's a roll of the dice on whether or not a person can do it predictably. One faulty transmission or one botched brake job or one physically impairing accident and you've thrown it all down the drain. You can skew the odds by driving safely or buying reliable brands or doing your own maintenance, but the fact is that there are real costs there, and they are more than gas and oil, and most people probably significantly underestimate them.

I think this is one of those things where anecdotal experience is hard to judge because it is better measured by aggregate data. Insurance companies would probably do really well at this exercise, lol

[StashingAway]

My point was, I will assume that the life of my car drops from 10 years to 5, so I am replacing the car every 5 years.  Is it then not fair for the question to be, did I make enough money to replace the car and then make some as well? 

Yes, that' a fair question (also assuming that you are counting the running/maintenance costs as well a replacement cost in that equation). For instance, if I buy a car for $5K and sell it for $2K, but spend 3K on maintenance over that lifespan, then I've really spend 6K on that car (where at first glance it looks like I've spent 3K on that car).

When my water pump fails was it really because of the delivery, or would it have failed anyway just owning the car and making no money with it?

You can fairly confidently assume that it's mileage, so an emphatic "yes" it was because of delivery, at the % rate that your miles are from delivery vs personal. There is no real deep rabbit hole here. Some wear items are more based on age, but we don't seem to be in those timespans (10 year for a set of tires, etc).

The rub seems to be am I making as much as what?  I claim?  i have never claimed to be making any amount, I have just been sharing the details of what I am doing so that others can learn from them and make their own decision. 

So, if you don't have a final $/hr rate that you are earning, what is the point of this exercize?

If I was to work fast food would everyone be worried about the wear and tear on my car?  Of course not, because driving to work is assumed to be part of having a job. 

Nope, this is the mmm forum, mate! I specifically bought a house that is biking distance from my job. That assumption is a big one that pushes this "tough love" analysis that you're getting here (and being a great sport about, may I add!). Driving to work is in the same category of what we are looking at here. And for the people who live in big cities, owning a car is a laughable proposal.

Taxes would also not matter because we all understand income is taxed. 

I somewhat agree here, the only real reason taxes are brought in is because the deduction on mileage seems to be contested. But it's definitely not an 'apples to apples' comparison of a McDonalds job. If we were comparing it to McD's we would add the income tax difference between your income and your adjusted income (which is about $8.50) back into your earnings. In this example it would be $136 apples to apples comparison to your $150 at a job with no driving costs, again with the caveat that 9c a mile is pretty optimistic.

My foray into this at this time was to determine if this is a legitimate side hustle when I RE and have a bad stock year and need to find a way to make $5-10K to make up the difference.

It really depends on if it takes 20 hours or 200 hours to make that money. Hence the questioning of the final "hourly" rate.

[StashingAway]

All you guys need to stop arguing about the mileage deduction and get yourselves a halfway decent accountant.

Good side hustles produce more cashflow than taxable income.

OP what is your marginal tax rate? This is really important to value the costs that are written off.

If we are working under the assumption that this is a side job to get a little cash in retirement (in the US), can we say that 15% is a reasonable assumption? Granted, this isn't an assumption that I can make for OP currently, but the hypothetical scenario is that if you are looking for a little more $ after you retire (or at least the one that I was running under).

And if we work that, can you play accountant and work the numbers if you are seeing us(me) making mistakes here?

[researcher1]

Is it then not fair for the question to be, did I make enough money to replace the car and then make some as well? 
So why is the calculus here need to me any more complicated than am I spending less over all than what I am being paid?
I seem to be missing the point of how making $1,000/month and spending about $300 at best is not viewed with a similar positive viewpoint?
If i make even 1 cent of profit does that not mean that this is a money making effort? 
It appears others see it differently, though my question is still if you are not seeing it as a losing proposition why is it a bad idea?

You are the ideal candidate for a food delivery job.
You ignore both the costs incurred AND how many hours you spent to earn the money.
All you care about is generating enough revenue to exceed your (unknown) costs, regardless of how many hours it takes to do so.

Just because something isn't a "losing proposition" doesn't make it a good idea.
If you kept an accurate accounting of all your expenses and hours worked, and found you were making minimum wage with this side hustle, would you think this was a good idea or a bad idea?

If I was to work fast food would everyone be worried about the wear and tear on my car?  Of course not, because driving to work is assumed to be part of having a job. 

A car isn't a requirement for working at a fast food restaurant.  They can walk, ride a bike/bus, catch a ride, or drive a short distance.
They aren't required rack up 20K unreimbursed miles in their own vehicle as a condition of their employment.

The average fast food worker (if they even have their own car) is likely only driving a few miles to work.  Say 1.5K miles/year, not 20K miles/year.
If someone gets a job at a fast food restaurant 80 miles away from their house, then yes you would absolutely be worried about the wear and tear on the car.

Here I have some fraction of 57.5 cents of expense for every mile.  We can again get into minutiae about how much that really is.  Is it  9 cents of 20?   I am spending a fraction of that expense but get to claim 100% of the mileage expense. 

You still aren't getting it, even though it's been pointed out by multiple people.
You may be spending a fraction of the 57.5 cents/mile, but you are also getting only a fraction of that 57.5 cents as an actual financial benefit on your taxes.

The challenge here is the rabbit hole this can go down to try to figure out the costs is always prone to now being accurate.  I use the car outside of food delivery.  When my water pump fails was it really because of the delivery, or would it have failed anyway just owning the car and making no money with it?  If I only deliver on sunny days does that mean i can ignore wiper costs because those only happen on the personal time?  You can see what I am getting at about how this seem to me to be an exercise in minutiae.   

You know it is not this complicated. 
All you need to do is allocate vehicle expenses based on the proportion of total miles spent on delivery.  For examples...
Total Miles - 30,000
Personal Miles - 10,000 (33%)
Delivery Miles - 20,000 (67%)

Take all of your expenses during this time, say $1500 for oil changes, tires, brakes, battery, ect.
That means $1000 of this cost is allocated as delivery expenses.

[trollwithamustache]

All you guys need to stop arguing about the mileage deduction and get yourselves a halfway decent accountant.

Good side hustles produce more cashflow than taxable income.

OP what is your marginal tax rate? This is really important to value the costs that are written off.

This year will likely again hit 35%

 For every extra 1.55 dollars you earned W-2 (approx) OP get a spendable dollar.

This means, for every 1 of 1099 earnings that goes against a legitimate biz expense OP that he would have had anyways, OP gets a spendable dollar.

Lets also note, OP, if you do this a lot and at the end of the year wrack up your schedule C, see too many thousands of dollars profit... you can open a SEP IRA and disappear a lot of that income.

now, as a FI Side hustle, the value starts to go down with the drop in marginal tax rate.  I'm also 95% on the same page as you on car costs, but its boring arguing with third rate trolls like researcher.  He will always be a wage slave.

[researcher1]

I'm also 95% on the same page as you on car costs, but its boring arguing with third rate trolls like researcher.  He will always be a wage slave.

So you agree with the OP that the 20,000 miles spent driving around making food deliveries, and all of the vehicle costs associated with this mileage, should be ignored?

That is the OP's position...
- fuel costs, wear/tear ect ... can be ignored.
- what I spend on gas and tires and oil is really irrelevant.

Why am I a "third rate troll"? 
Are StashingAway, Runrooster, Arbitrage, secondcor521 also trolls?

[robartsd]

Ok but that is $4,600 I made even after all the costs right?  So how is that a bad thing?

I do not track all the hours, as I am not paid hourly, but when I calculated my earnings for months to figure out my hourly rate as I said it is at least $15/hour and more accurately between $18-$22.

I have a sister who is doing app based driving who also reports similar earnings (also ignoring indirect costs). If your earnings after direct costs are $18-22/hour, you're probably close to $15/hour after indirect costs like depreciation. For many workers in service industries this would be considered reasonable pay (it seems to be the rate all the labor organizations are clamoring for as a minimum); but only you can decided if your time is worth this rate to you (many on this forum would not be willing to trade their time for money at $15/hour). I'm pretty sure if you're in a 35% marginal tax rate, this activity is not close to your pay rate at your regular job (or your have a high earning spouse).