Florida House: Living my best life or Face punch?

[Jon Bon]

So I just returned from a week in Florida and I wonder why I spend my winters in the cold, dark, and gray every year.  As a result I am investigating properties in the sunshine state as an investment/second home. I don't care about making money, I just don't want to lose (lots of) it.


Background: I have rental properties so I am well versed in dealing with things breaking in rental properties. I am also a licensed general contractor, however they do stuff very different in Florida, not that it would be hard to learn, just different. My net worth its somewhere in the 2 million range so I would like to think that I can afford it. I am semi-fired now so in theory I would have time to actually use it.


I really had a blast with the kids jumping waves and looking for dolphins, so making memories with my kids and spouse would be the goal here. If the goal was making money I would buy more similar rental properties to the ones I have. Ones that I know how to run and profit from. I also want to move south, maybe not today, but maybe in the medium term. As I get older the world seams smaller, and more attainable. Lastly  I have contacts/friends in the area.

So is this something worth looking into, or should I just go and burn a pile of money now to save myself the trouble?

[dcheesi]

/subscribe

How far away are you? Seems like DIYing repairs would be difficult from several hours away (and Florida is a loooong state; unless it's the panhandle, it's several hours away from anywhere)?

[Jon Bon]

Far! >500 miles

Its one of those big concerns. I mean I was managing my guys from Florida to fix my houses back home so it can be done I guess? Because of course all the stuff broke when I was on vacation.

I was thinking  maybe rent out a few peak weeks, and then let it sit? I was thinking this might be a cash purchase and then we will all pretend that opptunity cost is not a thing?

[reeshau]

Sounds like you already have an area in mind?  Make sure you understand the homeowners' insurance situation in that area, and for that neighborhood.  My Dad lives in North Fort Myers, and in addition to all the mess he had to deal with after hurricane Ian, he also had to line up insurance starting Jan 1, 2023 as his carrier called it quits on Florida.

Insurance at any price is something, and needs to be considered if you are looking to rent it out.  And for heaven's sake, make sure you have flood insurance, no matter you are in Florida!  Ian went right across the middle of the state, but the only affected county that had higher than 50% coverage of flood insurance was Collier County.  (Home to Naples, and $$$$)

[uniwelder]

I really had a blast with the kids jumping waves and looking for dolphins, so making memories with my kids and spouse would be the goal here...
...I also want to move south, maybe not today, but maybe in the medium term...

How old do you think your kids will be when you actually make the move?  It sounds to me like these experiences are best done with some vacation time, rather than buying a house there.  Florida is definitely not the location I would buy in--- lack of insurance coverage, saltwater infiltration, public school system, flooding, politics?, rain and humidity, etc.  Just visit Florida when the weather is nice and buy a house somewhere else that stays warm.

[Laura33]

Your idea is not in itself face punch-worthy; I mean, if you're planning to move farther south anyway on day, why not buy one when you have a giant firehose of cash coming in and then have a tenant pay the mortgage off for you?  That's what we did, at least, and while it hasn't been a great investment from a purely financial basis, it hasn't been terrible, and now we are literally something like $400 from owning a second condo free and clear.

But I'd recommend doing a lot more investigation into all the ancillary stuff before diving in, including:

- Florida weather can be hard on properties; I would absolutely not want to leave one sitting for months at a time without someone checking it regularly.  What about finding a place that you use for short-term rentals in the peak months, and then you can just remove it from the listings when you want to use it?  Added bonus that you get some help with the mortgage/upkeep.  And also budget for much higher maintenance/upkeep -- and the closer you are to the ocean, the higher that budget needs to be.

- Check out insurance pricing and availability, ASAP.  My mom inherited a house in FL and gets a huge break on home insurance because she visits at least once a month -- but the rates for second homes are ridiculous.  You will want hurricane insurance, flood insurance, liability insurance, you name it.  Those things can be crazy expensive now, so do your due diligence on the $$ before you fall in love with the idea.

- What's the going rate for property management companies?  If you buy in a resort area, they'll manage the rental pool but then take half the $$.  The company we use gets I think 8%-10 of the rental income + 1 month's rent for each lease renewal (though that's for an annual lease; I imagine someone dealing with a ton of turnover is going to want a higher percentage of the rental income, but won't have a lease to renew and charge you for).  Established tourist areas have established norms and expectations for how things are handled and how much they cost, so figure out what those are in your area.

[Sibley]

There are other locations that have beach and nice weather that don't have all of Florida's problems. You might look into some of those.

[Jon Bon]

There are other locations that have beach and nice weather that don't have all of Florida's problems. You might look into some of those.

What did you have in mind? I want to be able to drive, it feels too expensive and wasteful to fly all the time. I've looked at NC/SC but they are still pretty cold 1/2 the year.

Hurricanes, maintenance, and admin for sure would be issues. But there are what 22 million people in Florida, so it cant be all bad. I mean I would rather live in Florida with florida-man as my neighbor than for instance, the city of Chicago.

I was in Ft. Pierce I have some family connections in the area. I can also find a beachfront condo for $300k which blows my mind. I mean its VERY possible they are complex's that have huge issues and the infamous "special assessment" is on its way. But they cant all be bad, there is a massive amount and selection of every shape and color.

I guess I am ok with the risk of natural disasters, what I am more concerned about is man made. The  HOA/city/state decides short tern rentals are illegal, or whatever a nutty politician decides needs regulating regardless of externalities type thing.






 

[LD_TAndK]

I have relatives who live in the great white north and choose somewhere to rent long term for a month or two each winter. They've rented in Panama City several times and have enjoyed it, and say it's relatively cheap.

I've found that even if I think I love a place, I grow tired of it after a few visits. I would want to keep the flexibility of going wherever I want rather than being tied down to a single location.

I also have family that has a vacation house only 2.5 hours drive away. It's a massive time sink, requires constant upkeep, and it isn't in as harsh of an environment as florida.

[clarkfan1979]

We live in southern Colorado with plenty of sunshine, but we still manage to spend 4-6 weeks in Florida each year. We have 3 sets of parents that are retired and have second homes in Florida. I don't have the housing expense, but I wanted to say that we really enjoy ourselves.

Two sets of parents are in North Fort Myers, FL. The other set is in the Tampa area (Reddington Shores).

I have self-managed a long-term rental long distance in Florida since 2015. If it was a problem, I would have sold it. Short-term rentals are different. I do not have direct experience with those. Some HOA's do require 30-day minimum stays for visitors.

I personally would buy in a community with a heated pool to maximize your winter vacations. The gulf is pretty cold during the winter months. If you are not in a flood zone, you don't need to buy flood insurance. New building codes in the Fort Myers area are higher elevation. My dad's house in North Fort Myers got flooded during hurricane Ian. He lives in the River Bend neighborhood. His house is older and lower elevation. The newer homes in the area are 3-5 ft. higher and did not get any water. My long term rental in San Carlos Park wasn't close to getting flooded because it's 3 miles away from any water.

My wife's parents recently bought in Brightwater in North Fort Myers, FL. The planned community is building a 6 acre pool. It's a salt water lagoon. They are far from the gulf but kind of close to the river. No flooding in that community either. 

I would personally make sure that I vacationed in the community first before I bought. Good luck.

[GilesMM]

Why not just move there, lock, stock and barrel in a couple years when the recession really gets going and knocks down housing prices?


Second homes are normally a hair-on-fire waste of money and effort (ask me how I know).  You are locked into a vacation destination and spend your time beautifying or doing repairs when you get there. The kids will quickly tire of it. When you are not there you worry about the place falling down or the renters demolishing it.  For all the money you lose on it, you can take fabulous vacations anywhere you like with no worries during or otherwise about property management.

[reeshau]

Coverage with flood insurance is so bad in Florida, that the state legislature has mandated that anyone holding property insurance through Citizens Insurance (the state insurer of last resort) must get flood insurance.

https://www.eenews.net/articles/fla-lawmakers-force-homeowners-to-buy-flood-insurance/

While part of the point is to get people away from Citizens and back into the private insurance market, it's a remarkable intervention for a republican legislature and governor.

Other aspects of the new property insurance law:
https://www.roofingcontractor.com/articles/97786-what-you-should-know-about-floridas-new-property-insurance-law

[clarkfan1979]

Why not just move there, lock, stock and barrel in a couple years when the recession really gets going and knocks down housing prices?


Second homes are normally a hair-on-fire waste of money and effort (ask me how I know).  You are locked into a vacation destination and spend your time beautifying or doing repairs when you get there. The kids will quickly tire of it. When you are not there you worry about the place falling down or the renters demolishing it.  For all the money you lose on it, you can take fabulous vacations anywhere you like with no worries during or otherwise about property management.

I lived in Fort Myers, FL full-time for 4 years. The 7 months of summer (April - October) are really hot and humid. The 5 months of winter are amazing, but not nice enough to justify the 7 months of summer. As a result, we eventually moved. Imagine a really hot and humid heat wave in the Midwest in which you need to be in the pool almost every day to survive. Now imagine that for 7 months straight. You don't get any breaks in the weather during the summer, which makes it very difficult. If you had random cold fronts that made it that far south, it would be easier to handle. However, it rarely happens. The only time it dries out in the late summer is after a hurricane, which lasts 3 days max.

Prices dropped in Florida during the last recession because they over-built. I don't know the entire Florida market, but I keep an eye on the Fort Myers market. From November 2021 to November 2022 sales prices is up 30% and inventory is at 1.6 months. My step-sister owns her own brokerage firm. Two weeks ago she got a house under contract in 1 day. This is also only two months post-hurricane. 

[bacchi]

Rent. Rent enough for your family one year and then rent enough for family and friends the next. When your kids are busy, rent a condo for just the two of you. Rent on the west and then rent on the east. Rent in the Keys and then rent in the panhandle. Rent.

[Jon Bon]

Why not just move there, lock, stock and barrel in a couple years when the recession really gets going and knocks down housing prices?


Second homes are normally a hair-on-fire waste of money and effort (ask me how I know).  You are locked into a vacation destination and spend your time beautifying or doing repairs when you get there. The kids will quickly tire of it. When you are not there you worry about the place falling down or the renters demolishing it.  For all the money you lose on it, you can take fabulous vacations anywhere you like with no worries during or otherwise about property management.

How do you know?!

What problems did you run into? What mistakes did you make? What would you do differently?

[LifeHappens]

I live in Florida, so obviously I don't think you are crazy for looking at real estate here :)

I will caution you to be very clear about the flood zone of any property you look at and get an actual insurance quote before buying. I don't have flood insurance on my home because the location makes it pretty safe from that aspect of storms. I would advise everyone to carry wind insurance.

Fort Pierce is a nice area, and it is quite affordable for the east coast. I can't tell you owning a vacation home is the best financial idea, but I would be comfortable buying property in that area.

[ender]

Second homes are normally a hair-on-fire waste of money and effort (ask me how I know).  You are locked into a vacation destination and spend your time beautifying or doing repairs when you get there. The kids will quickly tire of it. When you are not there you worry about the place falling down or the renters demolishing it.  For all the money you lose on it, you can take fabulous vacations anywhere you like with no worries during or otherwise about property management.

This is not at all my experience as one of the kids involved as well as watching my inlaws.

They LOVE having a place in Florida and spend 2-3 months a year there, even if it's additional work. There's a reason tons of places in FL are in HOAs to take care of things while you are gone because so many people do this type of thing.

We'll probably visit for 2 weeks a year, just like the other siblings.

The flipside is my parents moved to a place which we have no interest in visiting and likely won't go to anywhere near as often even though it's much closer. Why? Because it's a place we don't want to go to.

So yeah, if you buy a place in a non-desirable location and/or aren't enjoyable to be around? Then no one will want to visit. But it comes down a lot more to family and personality dynamics imo than anything else.

[Fomerly known as something]

Why not just move there, lock, stock and barrel in a couple years when the recession really gets going and knocks down housing prices?


Second homes are normally a hair-on-fire waste of money and effort (ask me how I know).  You are locked into a vacation destination and spend your time beautifying or doing repairs when you get there. The kids will quickly tire of it. When you are not there you worry about the place falling down or the renters demolishing it.  For all the money you lose on it, you can take fabulous vacations anywhere you like with no worries during or otherwise about property management.

I lived in Fort Myers, FL full-time for 4 years. The 7 months of summer (April - October) are really hot and humid. The 5 months of winter are amazing, but not nice enough to justify the 7 months of summer. As a result, we eventually moved. Imagine a really hot and humid heat wave in the Midwest in which you need to be in the pool almost every day to survive. Now imagine that for 7 months straight. You don't get any breaks in the weather during the summer, which makes it very difficult. If you had random cold fronts that made it that far south, it would be easier to handle. However, it rarely happens. The only time it dries out in the late summer is after a hurricane, which lasts 3 days max.

Prices dropped in Florida during the last recession because they over-built. I don't know the entire Florida market, but I keep an eye on the Fort Myers market. From November 2021 to November 2022 sales prices is up 30% and inventory is at 1.6 months. My step-sister owns her own brokerage firm. Two weeks ago she got a house under contract in 1 day. This is also only two months post-hurricane.

And this is why I live in the SW and not the SE.  I lived in SE GA for 5 years due to work.  I discovered if I want warmer I’ll go west.  One summer day work flew me from GA to Palm Springs,  I seriously thought the 106* in the parking lot was a pleasant tempature. 

[Jon Bon]

Why not just move there, lock, stock and barrel in a couple years when the recession really gets going and knocks down housing prices?


Second homes are normally a hair-on-fire waste of money and effort (ask me how I know).  You are locked into a vacation destination and spend your time beautifying or doing repairs when you get there. The kids will quickly tire of it. When you are not there you worry about the place falling down or the renters demolishing it.  For all the money you lose on it, you can take fabulous vacations anywhere you like with no worries during or otherwise about property management.

I lived in Fort Myers, FL full-time for 4 years. The 7 months of summer (April - October) are really hot and humid. The 5 months of winter are amazing, but not nice enough to justify the 7 months of summer. As a result, we eventually moved. Imagine a really hot and humid heat wave in the Midwest in which you need to be in the pool almost every day to survive. Now imagine that for 7 months straight. You don't get any breaks in the weather during the summer, which makes it very difficult. If you had random cold fronts that made it that far south, it would be easier to handle. However, it rarely happens. The only time it dries out in the late summer is after a hurricane, which lasts 3 days max.

Prices dropped in Florida during the last recession because they over-built. I don't know the entire Florida market, but I keep an eye on the Fort Myers market. From November 2021 to November 2022 sales prices is up 30% and inventory is at 1.6 months. My step-sister owns her own brokerage firm. Two weeks ago she got a house under contract in 1 day. This is also only two months post-hurricane.

And this is why I live in the SW and not the SE.  I lived in SE GA for 5 years due to work.  I discovered if I want warmer I’ll go west.  One summer day work flew me from GA to Palm Springs,  I seriously thought the 106* in the parking lot was a pleasant temperature.

I agree the weather is for sure better out there, the housing prices however, less so.......

*edit I was not planning on spending my summers in Florida either. I am too young to be called a snow bird, but that is basically what I want I think.

[ChickenStash]

My only caution is to make sure you are sure you actually want to live there (even snow-birding) as that is a lot different than vacationing. The newness of all the sights and amenities will eventually wear off and be replaced by the day-to-day drudgery of life.

As a kid, my parents picked up and moved to a new area we used to vacation in frequently so we could have wooded acreage, a house on a lake, a quiet life, and all that kind of thing. It was nice, but much of the things that drew them there just faded away as they still had to deal with work, I had to go to school, and the usual time-consuming activities of life took over.

I'm not saying that to be a Debbie-downer. We had a great time living there, but it wasn't the same as when we vacationed there and we weren't really prepared for it.

[FLBiker]

Two and a half years ago, we moved from Florida (Tampa Bay area) to Nova Scotia after living there for ~12 years.  For us, Florida wasn't a desirable location, but I'll try not to let my personal preferences color this too much.

The insurance concerns people have raised are real.  When we first bought our house (well inland, 50 years old, no history of flooding) we couldn't get insurance and had Citizen's.  After a couple of years, we were able to switch to another provider.  It was expensive.  Some folks in our neighborhood had issues with sinkholes, and we tried to get sinkhole insurance but we weren't able to.  We weren't technically in a flood zone (even though a river ran 3 houses down) but we carried flood insurance.  It wasn't expensive because we weren't in a flood zone.

Always run your AC in the summer, even if you feel comfortable without it, to avoid mold issues.  A whole-house dehumidifier could presumably work for this as well.

If you have school-aged children, choose your location carefully as there are lots of lousy schools (at least in the Tampa area).

Weather-wise, in Tampa, I felt that May to October was pretty unpleasant outside for the most part.  First thing in the morning was decent, but I'd be done hiking or whatever by ~10AM in the summer.  The rest of the year is good.  That said, I thought that weather would be the big negative with our move to Nova Scotia and I've been surprised that I honestly prefer the weather here.  I like the newness that comes with having distinct seasons.  Plus, I work from home (and have a garage) so I don't have to scrape ice off my car first thing in the morning to go to work. :)

Gardening in Florida (at least in Tampa) was lousy as the soil is just sand.  Raised beds and / or containers are the way to go.

I've never owned a second home, but we've talked about it off and on over the years.  For me, I'd rather be able to spend my vacations in different places, and not be an absentee landlord.  At the same time, you're comfortable being a landlord so that wouldn't be a concern for you.

[Jon Bon]

Thanks for the prospective FLBiker and Chickenstash!

I might be better to look at SC beach houses instead and rent a place in Florida come the dead of winter. I have a better handle on that market and it would be more investment less vacation home.

We are definitely going to be going to back next year, it might be our new xmas tradition.  Maybe by then I can snag something even cheaper.

Re Insurance: I wonder if I could have some sort of insane deductible. Like 50k? Like I am a general contractor, if I have to replace the roof or 1/3 of the windows that is just a Tuesday for me. If the entire house blows over, well then I'd like to have some sort of insurance on it? Basically like umbrella insurance for a house?

IMO I almost feel that could get something cheap enough that I would be pissed if it was destroyed but be willing to roll the dice if insurance was like 10k a year. I mean losing 200k would SUCK, but its not the end of the world. *Edit I am in no way going to do this, just thinking out loud online.....

[FLBiker]

Re Insurance: I wonder if I could have some sort of insane deductible. Like 50k? Like I am a general contractor, if I have to replace the roof or 1/3 of the windows that is just a Tuesday for me. If the entire house blows over, well then I'd like to have some sort of insurance on it? Basically like umbrella insurance for a house?

IMO I almost feel that could get something cheap enough that I would be pissed if it was destroyed but be willing to roll the dice if insurance was like 10k a year. I mean losing 200k would SUCK, but its not the end of the world. *Edit I am in no way going to do this, just thinking out loud online.....

We had a mortgage, so we were limited in terms of the deductible we could have, but I totally agree with you and we did talk about not having insurance at all once we paid it off.

[ldigz]

I've lived in Florida the past 5 years. I absolutely wish we had rented before buying.

As far as insurance, go through an agent, they can help you with advice on deductibles and what to look for in a home. Concrete block is far better than wood frame homes. Wind mitigation on your roof helps. The hurricane deductible separate from a regular deductible. You have to have a special inspection to get sink hole coverage.

I would look at the flood factor score for any property, not just the zone, because the fema zone maps are old and don't take newer data into account. I live inland, and many parts of this county had severe flooding after Ian, even places not in a flood zone.

Expect to need regular pest control and a termite bond. Property taxes are higher if it's not your primary residence; watch out for that when looking at what a current owner pays. My county's tax assessor will show estimated property taxes without 'homestead exemption' for any property.

[zygote]

My parents bought a second home in the Naples/Fort Myers area this summer. They got really lucky and didn't end up with any damage from Ian - they were just far enough inland.

It's a very expensive prospect. They had to spend over $1 million to buy into the location they wanted, and have to pay for HOA fees, insurance, a pool service, and weekly check-ins when they're up north. But they've been retired for almost 10 years now and their net worth is still high enough that they can afford it.

Even still, they took their time to make sure it was the right move. They've been visiting Florida during spring break time for decades, and started spending longer periods there before considering buying. The reason they finally made the commitment was more about community than location. My grandmother and uncle both have properties there now, and several of their friends up north also decided to make the move in the last few years. They plan to spend January - May there every year, and possibly parts of the fall too. Ultimately it's worth it for them.

Wherever you end up considering, I definitely recommend renting for longer periods first to try it out. You'll get a better sense for the pace of life, the community, and what neighborhoods you'd want to be in.

[Metalcat]

I 100% agree with everyone saying to rent before buying.

Now, I say this as someone who impulse bought a second home, sight unseen in a remote island I had never been to, which is a 31 hour drive away, so I'm not saying this from the perspective of someone who is overly conservative when it comes to things like this.

That said, I bought it for very little and happened to have a pile of cash lying around at the time.

If you are looking at spending substantial sums to buy and maintain a property, and it's going to substantially alter your savings/retirement goals, then yeah, do this in a step-wise fashion and absolutely go and rent for awhile to get to know the specific region.

When it comes to buying, just a few blocks one way or the other can make a major difference. You want to know those location nuances before committing.

I didn't, I just happened to luck out. After having lived there for some time, the house I bought is precisely located exactly where I would want to own, but I only know that from living there, seeing a few seasons, and talking extensively with my neighbours to better understand the ins and outs of the region.

I initially bought it as an AirBnB investment property, but after living there for half a year, fell totally in love with the location and the house, and now I want to build an extension and move there permanently in a few years.

My original thought had been that if I fell in love with the general area, I would get to know the place while living there and renovating the little house, and I would consider buying another home once I was familiar enough with the region.

It's just a coincidence that the place I bought is in the perfect location.

Incidentally, my neighbours there bought about a year before we did, also sight unseen from 30+ hours away. Their home is perfect for them, but within 6 months, they realized that the location really isn't. They're trying to sell their home now. Thankfully for me, it's very difficult to sell there,

So if you can afford to gamble and *maybe* get it right the first time, then go ahead and buy. But as someone who has lived in A LOT of locations, you can't beat living somewhere first to figure out where you fit best.

[FLBiker]

Concrete block is far better than wood frame homes.

...

Expect to need regular pest control and a termite bond.

+1 on both of these.  We had a block home (which is good in FL for hurricanes, and also for staying cooler in the summer) and even then had termite control.  Our neighborhood would get swarms every summer, and there were routinely tents on our street.  Pest control wasn't particularly expensive, though.

[jim555]

Try it in the summer.  Hot, humid, bug infested with snakes and alligators.  Swamp gas (smells like farts) is the cherry on top.

[lutorm]

If I was buying a house to retire to now I would pay a lot of attention to how that house will fare with a meter of sea level rise and the anticipated increase in huge rainfall events, and I would not put a lot of faith into existing flood maps. Right now people might be able to offload the risk onto the flood insurance program, but that's going to have to end at some point and you don't want to end up with a stranded (or more literally, a sunken) asset...

[MrGreen]

I lived in Maryland for the first 34 years of my life. A good 4 months out of the year are cold and January/February are truly cold. Since we moved to coastal North Carolina 6 years ago, I can't imagine ever going back. The climates are extremely similar in the summer but in the winter most days here in Wilmington you can get outside mid-day without being all bundled up. The improvement in our quality of life in the winter months has been priceless. If you have the ability to do something like this that significantly improves your quality of life, why not?

[uniwelder]

I lived in Maryland for the first 34 years of my life. A good 4 months out of the year are cold and January/February are truly cold. Since we moved to coastal North Carolina 6 years ago, I can't imagine ever going back. The climates are extremely similar in the summer but in the winter most days here in Wilmington you can get outside mid-day without being all bundled up. The improvement in our quality of life in the winter months has been priceless. If you have the ability to do something like this that significantly improves your quality of life, why not?

I'm confused.  Are you suggesting OP move to North Carolina or Florida?  I'm not sure Maryland->North Carolina is the equivalent of Midwest->Florida. 

[dcheesi]

I lived in Maryland for the first 34 years of my life. A good 4 months out of the year are cold and January/February are truly cold. Since we moved to coastal North Carolina 6 years ago, I can't imagine ever going back. The climates are extremely similar in the summer but in the winter most days here in Wilmington you can get outside mid-day without being all bundled up. The improvement in our quality of life in the winter months has been priceless. If you have the ability to do something like this that significantly improves your quality of life, why not?

I'm confused.  Are you suggesting OP move to North Carolina or Florida?  I'm not sure Maryland->North Carolina is the equivalent of Midwest->Florida.

Good point, although OP has recently expressed interest in SC (which is a bit more like NC) as an alternative to FL.

In any case, I think the larger point is that moving to a climate you find more enjoyable year-round¹ can be quite rewarding.

¹ whether that's FL's 2-seasons (summer/summer++), or NC/SC's 4 seasons w/ mild winters,  that's for OP to figure out for themself

[Jon Bon]

Try it in the summer.  Hot, humid, bug infested with snakes and alligators.  Swamp gas (smells like farts) is the cherry on top.

For sure, I would not.

Hopefully during the summer I can rent it out to stupid people spending 1 godgillian dollars at Disney.

[MrGreen]

I lived in Maryland for the first 34 years of my life. A good 4 months out of the year are cold and January/February are truly cold. Since we moved to coastal North Carolina 6 years ago, I can't imagine ever going back. The climates are extremely similar in the summer but in the winter most days here in Wilmington you can get outside mid-day without being all bundled up. The improvement in our quality of life in the winter months has been priceless. If you have the ability to do something like this that significantly improves your quality of life, why not?

I'm confused.  Are you suggesting OP move to North Carolina or Florida?  I'm not sure Maryland->North Carolina is the equivalent of Midwest->Florida.

I was merely suggesting that moving to a place where climate increases ones overall happiness and quality of life is well worth it if one has the means to do so. That has been my experience anyway.

[Jon Bon]

I lived in Maryland for the first 34 years of my life. A good 4 months out of the year are cold and January/February are truly cold. Since we moved to coastal North Carolina 6 years ago, I can't imagine ever going back. The climates are extremely similar in the summer but in the winter most days here in Wilmington you can get outside mid-day without being all bundled up. The improvement in our quality of life in the winter months has been priceless. If you have the ability to do something like this that significantly improves your quality of life, why not?

I'm confused.  Are you suggesting OP move to North Carolina or Florida?  I'm not sure Maryland->North Carolina is the equivalent of Midwest->Florida.

I was merely suggesting that moving to a place where climate increases ones overall happiness and quality of life is well worth it if one has the means to do so. That has been my experience anyway.

Thanks for the perspective. Yes I agree to live in Florida full time likely would not make me all that much happier. I would trade a miserable winter for a miserable summer.

Personally I would like to move to the "upper south" full time. But I don't think I can get the family on board. So a Florida second home would be the next best thing?

[MrGreen]

I lived in Maryland for the first 34 years of my life. A good 4 months out of the year are cold and January/February are truly cold. Since we moved to coastal North Carolina 6 years ago, I can't imagine ever going back. The climates are extremely similar in the summer but in the winter most days here in Wilmington you can get outside mid-day without being all bundled up. The improvement in our quality of life in the winter months has been priceless. If you have the ability to do something like this that significantly improves your quality of life, why not?

There's always a multi-minth Airbnb as a first step if you're not comfortable committing to a specific location. Shoot you might find you enjoy wintering in different locations, depending on how well your family tolerates change.

I'm confused.  Are you suggesting OP move to North Carolina or Florida?  I'm not sure Maryland->North Carolina is the equivalent of Midwest->Florida.

I was merely suggesting that moving to a place where climate increases ones overall happiness and quality of life is well worth it if one has the means to do so. That has been my experience anyway.

Thanks for the perspective. Yes I agree to live in Florida full time likely would not make me all that much happier. I would trade a miserable winter for a miserable summer.

Personally I would like to move to the "upper south" full time. But I don't think I can get the family on board. So a Florida second home would be the next best thing?

[dcheesi]

Try it in the summer.  Hot, humid, bug infested with snakes and alligators.  Swamp gas (smells like farts) is the cherry on top.

For sure, I would not.

Hopefully during the summer I can rent it out to stupid people spending 1 godgillian dollars at Disney.

Keep in mind that in most of Florida, winter is "in-season", while summer is "off-season" (the reverse of beach towns farther north). Mouseketeers may be an exception, but people just looking for nicer weather already know that it's better to be there in the winter.