The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: jeromedawg on November 10, 2014, 12:03:36 PM
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Hey guys,
So after much deliberation with my wife, and likely at the disapproval of my parents (who I co-own my condo with and expressed to me that they wouldn't want pets there - since they're not living there though, and it's my wife and I, I think we have the right to make this decision though), I decided that I'd like to get a dog. Have wanted one my whole life but always held back by parents (when a kid) or circumstances. Even though my wife tries to dissuade me by reminding me that we are open to having kids soon, and that having a pet would just complicate priorities, etc I still think it would add to quality of life and also force me to get off my lazy butt and get outside for some walks and other exercise (I know this is true because we did some dog-sitting for my wife's cousin on several occasions and every time I felt the innate responsibility to care for the dog by taking it on walks and to relieve itself every morning and evening. It was a good thing).
In any case, we live in a smallish condo so I'd probably be looking for a relatively active and small dog in the 10-20lb range max. As someone who has never owned a dog before, and who would likely be going to a shelter/rescue, I'm kind of clueless as to what to expect or how the process really goes. Just want to prepare myself ahead of time to know what to expect and how to go about the process. I've read that at my local shelter, they really scrutinize and do intensive interviewing to ensure that you'll be a great owner. This is intimidating for someone who has never owned a dog before though. There's also several adoption events at a local Petsmart that I'll hopefully check-out this weekend. Other than that, I've sort of just been researching dog breeds best for our lifestyle and Petfinder to look at various dogs up for adoption in my area. Not sure how up-to-date Petfinder is either.
Any tips and advice for someone who has little experience and has always wanted a dog (but has never owned one)? For one, I'd like to avoid raising a pup if I can just due to our current situation where we're not home all the time. When we dog-sat, we were able to leave Stella at home for the day and she'd be OK but that's because she was fully grown and house-trained.
TIA!
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My advice is for you to volunteer as a dog walker at the local shelter. While you're at it, read a couple of basic dog training books and try out some tactics on the shelter dogs. Together, these should familiarize you with managing dogs and also introduce you to a variety of dog temperaments and sizes. And ultimately, any of the dogs you like will be adoptable.
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We own a small ark of rescue pets. Be SURE that you aren't going to get tired of this animal and "re home" it when you have kids, or your wife throws a fit, or it becomes inconvenient. Just as with kids, your staying out all night days will be over, you will need to be home to walk and feed them. Also, vacations get much more complicated and expensive with dog boarding. Be prepared, even an adult dog has accidents, especially when they are new. And BOY, when they get sick, you'd be amazed at how much bodily fluids that tiny body can hold (seriously my dog ate a corn muffin this weekend that he stole out of the trash, he's got a corn allergy, and I went through 3 rolls of paper towels with the vomit). In MANY aspects they are just like children so be prepared and don't adopt if you can't with 100% certainty say that you are going to be that animals forever home.
To us though, all the trouble, and the expense, are worth it. My husband is gone a lot so they are my family, they keep me company at night, protect me when we are out, and provide a reason for me to get out of the house.
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Thanks! For a first-time dog owner, would you advise *against* going to a shelter/rescue then? Is it better to contact a breeder or find a new puppy via Craigslist or something vs dealing with a potentially traumatized dog from a shelter and having to re-home it? Especially if there are certain preferences for the dog (e.g. smaller dog that sheds very little, etc)
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Thanks! For a first-time dog owner, would you advise *against* going to a shelter/rescue then? Is it better to contact a breeder or find a new puppy via Craigslist or something vs dealing with a potentially traumatized dog from a shelter and having to re-home it? Especially if there are certain preferences for the dog (e.g. smaller dog that sheds very little, etc)
No way! A good shelter or rescue knows the animals and will steer a first time dog owner away from a dog exhibiting signs of being a more challenging pet. Both of my dogs are from rescues and they are really easy dogs. A few accidents in the house as they learned our routine & how to tell us when they need to go out, but all in all miraculously well behaved. Shelter dog does not have to mean tramautized. A puppy from a breeder, on the other hand, is always going to be a lot of work (and money!). I guess Craiglist could be ok, but I think most shelters really care about finding the right dog for you and you would benefit from their expertise.
First though, I think you need to do a LOT more research. The biggest reason I say that is because you think that a small dog is the best choice for an apartment which is not a good general rule. Many small dogs are terriers which have endless energy. They were bred for hunting rodents & can be lovable and smart, but also get bored VERY easily. A Great Dane, on the other hand, is one of the best dogs for an apartment because they have very low energy & do not require the same kind of mental stimulation. Keep reading!
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Do NOT get a dog from Craigslist. Craigslist is filled with back yard breeders, stolen high value animals, and people that want to get rid of animals with health or behavior issues but don't want to take them to the shelter. The best way to find out what you really want is to do what CPA Cat suggests. Volunteer to walk or otherwise exercise the dogs at your local shelter. If it's too much emotionally to volunteer at the municipal shelter, look for a no kill shelter or a rescue group. This will help rid you of a lot of misconceptions and focus on what you really want in a dog. For example, if you want a laid back couch potato that you can walk and hang around with, you might like a greyhound. Yep, they are a larger breed, but they are easy to care for and cause very few problems. Invest a fair amount of time in getting to know the breeds so you have a solid idea what you want before contacting rescues.
As a long time shelter volunteer and rescue person, I would NEVER adopt from a breeder. You are asking for health issues from inbreeding, and the quality of the animals is quite variable, depending on the ethics of the breeder. There are plenty of wonderful dogs at your local shelter, often left behind for stupid reasons that are no fault of the dog's, that would make great pets for you.
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Thanks! For a first-time dog owner, would you advise *against* going to a shelter/rescue then? Is it better to contact a breeder or find a new puppy via Craigslist or something vs dealing with a potentially traumatized dog from a shelter and having to re-home it? Especially if there are certain preferences for the dog (e.g. smaller dog that sheds very little, etc)
I'd say no to this, although shelter/rescue dogs will often come with a little emotional baggage from having been given up (and sometimes lots of baggage if they were mistreated before that). But that doesn't mean they are necessarily all going to be difficult for a first time owner. On the contrary, some of them will already have basic training that would just need to be reinforced rather than starting from scratch. But do make sure you are very honest with the shelter/rescue about your situation and abilities when they are screening you. They aren't looking to be harsh and eliminate you as a candidate, they just want to find the best possible fit so the dogs will find a wonderful forever home, and they can't do that without knowing what kind of home you can honestly provide, and what you really want your dog to be like.
My parents have had several rescues, some of whom do have some challenges. But they have all been basically good dogs, most common issue across all of them is they did get a little more anxious the first time my parents went on vacation, since they probably thought they were being given away again. My sister also has a rescue she got as a puppy, pretty much the most awesome dog ever. (My family also had pure-breds in the past and they were also great again assuming you do your research on what breed is the best fit for you, but with so many dogs out there in need of good homes, I tend to lean that way now.)
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Thanks! For a first-time dog owner, would you advise *against* going to a shelter/rescue then? Is it better to contact a breeder or find a new puppy via Craigslist or something vs dealing with a potentially traumatized dog from a shelter and having to re-home it? Especially if there are certain preferences for the dog (e.g. smaller dog that sheds very little, etc)
No way! A good shelter or rescue knows the animals and will steer a first time dog owner away from a dog exhibiting signs of being a more challenging pet. Both of my dogs are from rescues and they are really easy dogs. A few accidents in the house as they learned our routine & how to tell us when they need to go out, but all in all miraculously well behaved. Shelter dog does not have to mean tramautized. A puppy from a breeder, on the other hand, is always going to be a lot of work (and money!). I guess Craiglist could be ok, but I think most shelters really care about finding the right dog for you and you would benefit from their expertise.
First though, I think you need to do a LOT more research. The biggest reason I say that is because you think that a small dog is the best choice for an apartment which is not a good general rule. Many small dogs are terriers which have endless energy. They were bred for hunting rodents & can be lovable and smart, but also get bored VERY easily. A Great Dane, on the other hand, is one of the best dogs for an apartment because they have very low energy & do not require the same kind of mental stimulation. Keep reading!
Thanks for the insight! I'll keep reading up. I've been watching some of the Dogs 101 series (Animal Planet and on Youtube) and that helps. Also been taking various 'surveys' out there that seek to give you an idea of what the best dog breed might be for you. I saw that daschunds and beagles might also be a good option too. Although, daschunds like to burrow which could result in torn up carpet if not trained well haha.
The dog we dog-sat was such a *great* dog - Stella is a yorkie chihuahua (chorkie) mix and was the most mild-mannered and obedient dog ever. She would be classified as a small dog (at 10-15 lbs). My wife's cousin obviously trained her well but she is extremely smart and playful. She did perfectly fine in our place though. It's not a tiny apartment by any means (around 1300sq ft condo) so there was ample room for her to play and run around. And I would take her outside at least a couple times a day for a short walk and to relieve herself. I took her to the local dog park one day too and she loved it, chasing and playing with the other dogs. At first she was a little timid but quickly grew out of it.
Her cousin actually asked if we wanted to take Stella in (since he moved to Chicago and didn't think he could commit to her) but we had to decline since at the time my wife had a rocky and strained relationship with her cousin and she didn't want to do him another favor or cut him slack with taking in his dog. Otherwise, I would have scooped her up that very second. And I still would if he ever asks again (assuming the relationship gets better with him and my wife).
I've seen some really large Great Danes in my neighborhood, and I just can't imagine one roaming around in my place! LOL
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There's definitely a lot of variance in personalities within breeds. My Corgi/Jack Russell mix is a huge couch potato, and not even smart enough to figure out fetch...He's a little special (but lovable, and the easiest dog ever!) I just didn't want you to rule out medium or large dogs on the assumption they aren't fit for apartments, or take on a challenging small breed dog assuming just because they're tiny they would be easy to train & live with.
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Do NOT get a dog from Craigslist. Craigslist is filled with back yard breeders, stolen high value animals, and people that want to get rid of animals with health or behavior issues but don't want to take them to the shelter. The best way to find out what you really want is to do what CPA Cat suggests. Volunteer to walk or otherwise exercise the dogs at your local shelter. If it's too much emotionally to volunteer at the municipal shelter, look for a no kill shelter or a rescue group. This will help rid you of a lot of misconceptions and focus on what you really want in a dog. For example, if you want a laid back couch potato that you can walk and hang around with, you might like a greyhound. Yep, they are a larger breed, but they are easy to care for and cause very few problems. Invest a fair amount of time in getting to know the breeds so you have a solid idea what you want before contacting rescues.
As a long time shelter volunteer and rescue person, I would NEVER adopt from a breeder. You are asking for health issues from inbreeding, and the quality of the animals is quite variable, depending on the ethics of the breeder. There are plenty of wonderful dogs at your local shelter, often left behind for stupid reasons that are no fault of the dog's, that would make great pets for you.
Funny you bring up greyhounds. My aunt/uncle in Texas have/had at least two Italian Greyhounds that they rescued. Joe passed away within the past several years, and I think that was super-sad for them. I think Bones is still living though. They also took in a Golden Lab (Sweetie) and all are/were crate-trained. Sweetie mostly stayed outside but Joe and Bones were indoor dogs. They did have to put shock-collars on them to prevent them from bolting off (I've read the stories about the dangers of not putting a leash on a greyhound while walking it hahaha). They were super-fun dogs and I would consider one. Really intelligent and obedient dogs. My wife really doesn't like how greyhounds look but I know it's much more than just looks too hahaha :)
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Understanding that everyone feels differently about stuff like this, I'll never own another dog once the one we have is gone. Don't get me wrong, our little dog leads a charmed life, and she's kind of funny to have around. But - dogs are expensive. Not so much food, toys, beds, etc., but vet bills, boarding them EVERY SINGLE TIME you want to go out of town somewhere, cleaning and/or replacing stuff they tear up or pee all over, you name it. Dogs also limit what you can do and in that regard are kind of like having another child. Want to go out after work? Cant, have to go home and let the dog out. Want to go out of town with the Mrs. for the weekend, kind of spur of the moment? Can't, nobody to watch the dog, too late to get them boarded. See what I mean? And a lot of people who have pets are absolutely, totally ok with these things, and that's great. But just understand what you're getting into before you do it. If you're not OK with these things, don't get a pet, as the only thing that's worse is someone who does get a pet and mistreats it because they didn't understand how much of a commitment it was. Good luck.
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There's definitely a lot of variance in personalities within breeds. My Corgi/Jack Russell mix is a huge couch potato, and not even smart enough to figure out fetch...He's a little special (but lovable, and the easiest dog ever!) I just didn't want you to rule out medium or large dogs on the assumption they aren't fit for apartments, or take on a challenging small breed dog assuming just because they're tiny they would be easy to train & live with.
Oh don't get me wrong, I definitely don't think all small dogs are easy to train or live with. Take for example my cousin's poodle/terrier mix, Turbo, man that dog is the most stubborn dog ever and has a CRAZY Napoleon complex. My cousin brought him over because we were potentially going to dog-sit him while Stella was with us. He was SO super aggressive as a 5lb toy-sized dog. He had to jump up on the chair or sofa and look down at Stella to show some authority, and was constantly barking and on the defense when she would try to initiate playing with him. Stella is the most timid dog ever but Turbo had major issues with her. He also went through every room in our condo and marked while she followed him - BAD DOG!! hahaha... anyway, I think we prefer smaller dogs like Stella's size because we admittedly like to "baby" them and hold them and keep them in our laps - not sure that can be done with a much larger dog; or it would be a different kind of cuddling LOL. That's just a preference though, I think if we meet some larger dogs we might be more open to it. Oh, and I'm assuming the cleanup isn't as easy for larger dogs. My wife's parents have a brother and sister beagle/rottweiler mix who are very sweet but they don't get much regular exercise and weren't raised or trained well at all. They are outside dogs as well. Cleaning up after them seems like such a pain compared to when we cleaned up after Stella. Sorry I keep going back to Stella, she was really the only dog I've ever known hahaha.
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Shelter dogs can be great. I got my 20 pound beagle/terrier mix from a shelter 5.5 years ago. One note on beagles - purebreds may enjoy howling... in a condo situation that may not be a good thing. My brother's beagle is very vocal.
Once you do get a dog, sign up for a dog training class. Most of the differences between a well behaved dog and a poorly behaved dog start with the owner. The class will teach you good habits and how to be consistent. You also learn tricks, practicing then provides an awesome outlet for a dog's energy.
Having a dog is a change in your lifestyle. Like other posters said, you now need to go home frequently to let your furry family member out. Boarding can get expensive pretty quickly and vet bills can be a surprise.
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Understanding that everyone feels differently about stuff like this, I'll never own another dog once the one we have is gone. Don't get me wrong, our little dog leads a charmed life, and she's kind of funny to have around. But - dogs are expensive. Not so much food, toys, beds, etc., but vet bills, boarding them EVERY SINGLE TIME you want to go out of town somewhere, cleaning and/or replacing stuff they tear up or pee all over, you name it. Dogs also limit what you can do and in that regard are kind of like having another child. Want to go out after work? Cant, have to go home and let the dog out. Want to go out of town with the Mrs. for the weekend, kind of spur of the moment? Can't, nobody to watch the dog, too late to get them boarded. See what I mean? And a lot of people who have pets are absolutely, totally ok with these things, and that's great. But just understand what you're getting into before you do it. If you're not OK with these things, don't get a pet, as the only thing that's worse is someone who does get a pet and mistreats it because they didn't understand how much of a commitment it was. Good luck.
Understood, my wife and I live a pretty low-key/low-profile life. "Going out" means running errands or grabbing dinner hahaha. And vacations? Well, those are usually planned out well in advance and hardly ever spur of the moment. So I think having a dog wouldn't necessarily impede on our lifestyle as is. Of course, things change but the only big thing we may expect to change is having a kid, in which case I think we'd be home more than ever. But this would also impact the kind of dog we might want (e.g. one that is good around babies/kids and one that doesn't have crazy-high energy that is more inclined to bite and nip at things - I wouldn't want a dog that's like that even if we didn't have kids though). As far as the expenses, that's also something I'm preparing myself for - just reading around and looking at checklists and 'budgets' of items that cost.
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likely at the disapproval of my parents (who I co-own my condo with and expressed to me that they wouldn't want pets there - since they're not living there though, and it's my wife and I, I think we have the right to make this decision though)
Are you paying them rent or just using their assets without reimbursing them? In either case, you don't get to make unilateral decisions. Pets mess shit up, getting a pet will decrease the value of their home. Either get their approval or don't co-own a condo with them.
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We have a retired racing greyhound and I cannot recommend this breed highly enough. Greyhounds are calm, quiet, don't need a lot of exercise, and need good homes. We did extensive research before adopting our little frugal hound and discovered that greyhounds are a very frugal breed! They're fine staying home alone all day while you're at work (ours sleeps all day--we've put a web cam on her), they don't need dog walkers, grooming (short fur!), expensive food (we get grain-free from Costco), or obedience training. They're adopted off the track as rescues, so they're adult dogs already housebroken, etc. We live in the city and we needed a dog that would adapt well and she absolutely has.
Dogs are indeed expensive, but, we've frugalized ownership (we spend about $950/year on her). We have friends watch her when we go out of town and we've never paid to board her. We bathe her ourselves, clip her nails, brush her teeth, etc. We take her to the vet every year for a check-up and we buy preventative medications, but otherwise, she's pretty cheap! Dogs are definitely a time and money commitment, and I don't want to make light of that, but, it is possible to not spend tons of money.
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likely at the disapproval of my parents (who I co-own my condo with and expressed to me that they wouldn't want pets there - since they're not living there though, and it's my wife and I, I think we have the right to make this decision though)
Are you paying them rent or just using their assets without reimbursing them? In either case, you don't get to make unilateral decisions. Pets mess shit up, getting a pet will decrease the value of their home. Either get their approval or don't co-own a condo with them.
We're technically paying them "rent" but it goes back into the house as equity anyway. Essentially, we're paying them mortgage if you will (and at a very low rate). Except, we have to figure stuff out with their will, as they've stated they want to split the value of the property between my brothers and I, which doesn't make much sense if my family will be the primary residents and if we plan to live there the rest of our lives...but that's a completely different topic all together.
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My advice is for you to volunteer as a dog walker at the local shelter. While you're at it, read a couple of basic dog training books and try out some tactics on the shelter dogs. Together, these should familiarize you with managing dogs and also introduce you to a variety of dog temperaments and sizes. And ultimately, any of the dogs you like will be adoptable.
Thanks! For a first-time dog owner, would you advise *against* going to a shelter/rescue then? Is it better to contact a breeder or find a new puppy via Craigslist or something vs dealing with a potentially traumatized dog from a shelter and having to re-home it? Especially if there are certain preferences for the dog (e.g. smaller dog that sheds very little, etc)
No way! A good shelter or rescue knows the animals and will steer a first time dog owner away from a dog exhibiting signs of being a more challenging pet. Both of my dogs are from rescues and they are really easy dogs. A few accidents in the house as they learned our routine & how to tell us when they need to go out, but all in all miraculously well behaved. Shelter dog does not have to mean tramautized. A puppy from a breeder, on the other hand, is always going to be a lot of work (and money!). I guess Craiglist could be ok, but I think most shelters really care about finding the right dog for you and you would benefit from their expertise.
First though, I think you need to do a LOT more research. The biggest reason I say that is because you think that a small dog is the best choice for an apartment which is not a good general rule. Many small dogs are terriers which have endless energy. They were bred for hunting rodents & can be lovable and smart, but also get bored VERY easily. A Great Dane, on the other hand, is one of the best dogs for an apartment because they have very low energy & do not require the same kind of mental stimulation. Keep reading!
I think both of these are amazing suggestions!
Also good to see your response to Kansas Beachbum because they are right on about some of the harder parts of dog ownership. The travel/boarding thing is a big one... we have a friend who dogsits for us, but we still pay her and we still have to plan in advance. Re. the tearing up and peeing on stuff, definitely a problem with a puppy but I will say, after raising a puppy this year (she's 6 months old now) for the first time in my life, I was more relieved than ever that being mustachian meant we don't have a lot of clothes/shoes/furniture that are very expensive or irreplaceable :)
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Thanks all!
One other thing I was a bit confused about and wanted to clarify is the adoption fees. I know many places ask for a "donation" or fee but it seems like this fee often varies. I've seen anywhere as low as $90 to upwards of $400 or so.
Why would there be such a disparity in fees? I understand the fee paid goes toward covering the initial care including vaccinations and medications - I suppose it depends on the condition of the animal itself? But I've also seen where some shelters charge "flat fees" for dogs, cats, etc.
Can someone explain or breakdown what these fees really are? Also, I noticed some shelters ask for a donation rather than a fee. For instance, there's one shelter who I inquired with and on their adoption form it asks if the adopter is willing to make a $250 donation to adopt but not making the donation does not disqualify them (but likely will put you below someone else who IS willing to pay for the same dog, I'd guess). Is there any 'etiquette' in navigating these kinds of "donations" that shelters/rescues ask for? I'm assuming most people would want to donate but is it usually what the shelter is asking?
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At our local shelter, the shelter will charge a sliding scale with more in-demand dogs demanding a higher fee, and lower demand dogs (usually pitbull mixes or senior dogs) often commanding a low fee (or sometimes even no fee).
The optional donation thing is probably just a test. If you aren't willing to lay out $250 for the dog to adopt it, then are you going to be willing to take it to regular vet visits or pay for medical care? On the other hand, if it's a kill shelter and the dog you're wanting to adopt is on the short list, then maybe they'll take the chance.
Also, they may be just trying to make your "fee" into a tax-deductible donation.
It is very unlikely that the fee you pay (whatever it is) will actually cover the shelter's costs for the dog. Running a shelter is a money-losing proposition and the shelter is only running because it receives money from donors and often the city/county.
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At our local shelter, the shelter will charge a sliding scale with more in-demand dogs demanding a higher fee, and lower demand dogs (usually pitbull mixes or senior dogs) often commanding a low fee (or sometimes even no fee).
Yup this is what my shelter does. Supply and demand, basically! Specialty breeds and puppies command a higher price than pitties and senior dogs. $150-450 is our range. Same for cats. My shelter doesn't do any of that vague donation BS so I can't comment on that.
Be patient when searching for a dog from a rescue org. Often times people want a dog and they want it NOW, and when the right animal isn't available, they either get the wrong dog for their household, or turn to a breeder. So, be patient! It will happen, just may take a while. The animal you choose has quite the lifespan. Some live into their 20s, ESPECIALLY the smaller mixed breed dogs. Mine is 14 years old, and showing no signs of slowing down.
(Also, cats are super cool. I love dogs, but I was surprised at how much I love cats too! My cats are far more interesting than my 15 lb dog. :) Just sayin')
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Thanks all!
Well, I have an opportunity to meet Mindy (a doxie-pin) for starters this weekend - stumbled across her on Petfinder and sent an email out last night not expecting a reply but got one really fast. She's 11mos old in foster care right now and is mostly house-broken but still has some issues (with gnawing on things). I don't think we'll have issues with that. The foster parent gave me an idea of her temperament and there's also some videos of her running around on Petfinder. Probably not the *best* way to indoctrinate myself into the adoption scene right off the bat like this (versus visiting several shelters and observing a bunch of dogs) so I'm trying to not to get myself too invested, knowing it will probably not work out (or guarding myself from committing right away without really understanding the commitment). It's kind of a long drive too, so we'll see. I'm hoping to also stop by for another adoption event for a rescue that's hosted at a Petsmart just to see some the dogs they have up for adoption there.
I have a test that morning so I need to focus on that of course - hopefully I pass it so I'm not in an upset mood for the rest of the day!
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All of our pets are shelter animals, and outside of the standard behavior modifications that all dogs need, they are WONDERFUL pets. My chow/collie mix is actually a therapy dog, we were leary towards him since he was part chow, but man he has the BEST personality, he's aloof like a chow but has the patience and tolerance of a collie. The neighborhood children routinely try to ride him, one actually took a running dive onto him on Halloween and outside of a slight growl, no reaction at all (which trust me my husband and I were like Noooooooo in slow motion when we saw that kid coming, he landed HARD and the poor dog got a sharp toddler elbow to the ribs) Our husky mix is a little more destructive, but doesn't have any issues so long as we keep her exercised, when she gets bored she chews...a lot. All of our other pets are shelter animals as well (outside of one cat that we stole before we moved from her highly abusive owner), and we have NO issues.
The important thing about dogs is in the training. You see lots of yippy bitey small dogs because people don't train them, they think they are small, and can't do much damage, so why invest the time? Just meet the dog, play with it, see how it reacts to you touching it's ears, paws etc. Walk it around the shelter and see how it reacts to other dogs etc, that's how you are going to find the dog for you.
They are wonders to have around, especially after a bad day, they've helped me through a number of deployments and family losses...They've helped my husband cope after deployments, and the therapy dog has aided a number of PTSD soldiers (even if he's been a health wreck since day one, I could buy a new to me car with what we've spent in vet bills on that dog) To me, no amount of money in the world would be worth me giving them up.
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Kudos for looking to save a life. We have two shelter cats who are the most loving animals and can't imagine our house without them.
But please, please, please get things straight (explicitly) with your parents before adopting. It would be horrible for the dog (and you) to have them disapprove to the extent that you can't keep the dog. And shelters/adoption agencies will ask about your living situation, and may require written permission from the record owner of the house.
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We chose our Beagle last summer from the shelter, and it was a great option. I don't think I'd ever consider getting a pet anywhere except from the shelter in the future. First, we were saving an animal who otherwise would've been killed. Second, it was a great bargain: We paid $75 for him, which included his rabies and puppy shots, and we were given a certificate to take him to the spay/neuter clinic within 30 days and have him "fixed" for free. (Definitely spay /neuter your dog -- it's simply the responsible thing to do.)
Another option: Look into fostering dogs. This gives you a chance to "try before you buy".
I'll second what another poster said: Don't hurry. Adopting a dog is a commitment, and you want the right dog -- not a right now dog.
One health comment: I told the kids that we were taking him THAT DAY to the vet to make sure he didn't have heartworms. Heartworms are extremely expensive to treat, and the dog doesn't always survive. If I were already attached to the dog, I would pay for his treatment . . . but I wasn't willing to take on a brand-new dog that already had the problem. If you choose a young dog, your chance of heartworms is smaller.
From a frugal point of view, I've been very happy having chosen a Beagle: He's 20 lbs, which is a nice size for an indoor dog; a small dog doesn't eat much and his collar, bed, medicines, etc. are cheaper. One small negative: His stomach is a little delicate, and he can't eat cheap food; I'm paying about $15/month for his food. His short hair is easy to wash at home, and he doesn't require grooming (except trimming his nails). I set out looking for a Dauschund, but quickly ran into Beagles and haven't been disappointed in the least. We had a Cairn Terrier when I was a kid, and that was also high on my list of possibilities. I think I would like a Yorkie or a Shih Tzu, but I wouldn't like keeping up with the brushing and grooming.
I'll echo someone else's comment: Obedience classes were well worth the cost. He's my first indoor dog since childhood, and both he and I learned in the class.
As for boarding, I suggest you find a friend with a similar-sized dog and agree to "trade" boarding when one of you goes out of town. FREE, except that you might give the friend a box of chocolates or another small gift as a thank you.
Finally, I would be a bit concerned about getting a dog while you're planning for a baby. A baby is such a huge time commitment and a lifestyle change. You can always adopt a dog later. A dog with a newborn may not be such a big deal . . . but a toddler is going to pester a dog, pull his tail, get into his food dish, and so forth. Choose your breed with toddlers in mind. If you wait, I think children are really ready for a dog around the time they start school.
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I wouldn't count on swapping boarding. My pup loves other dogs on the street, but if she realizes they live in our apartment building, instantly hates them. She's very territorial despite being otherwise friendly. I can't imagine what would happen if we tried to bring another dog in. I think she only accepted our new dog because we had just moved to our apartment & she didn't feel as possessive. I think it's a great idea, but don't bet the budget on that one!
And in other advice, I think you're crazy to go "look at" at a dog this weekend. Keep reading & learning. There will always be great dogs out there in need of a home.
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Thanks again for the advice everyone! I am holding off on the one-on-one visit but will try to make it to the adoption event at a Petsmart not too far away. Fostering sounds like a great idea as well - how does one get started with that process though?
BTW: when you guys say to research and read more, do you have other suggestions in terms of good websites to visit? I feel like I've done a fair amount of research in terms of what kind of dog I'd want. And have researched various breeds that interest me and that seem to fit best with our lifestyle. I understand there are all sorts of fees to cough up with vet bills, vaccinations, food, etc
About the commitment part, I think I kind of get it but will anybody ever really be ready if it's their first time with anything?
Anyway I just don't want to research myself into a pigeonhole but I think the commitment part is still important. But I feel like there will be tons of surprises regardless. In any case, I think fostering sounds like a good way to start out perhaps.
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BTW: the person I was going to setup an appointment through is a volunteer at this particular rescue, and she pointed out the is distinctly different from the shelter. She made the point that rescues work with dogs that are taken from shelters and help "transition" them for re-homing. I'm guessing you're paying more going through a rescue vs a shelter but sounds like it could be an easier transition and better way to match a dog to potential owners (especially new ones).
What are your guys' take on adopting via a rescue vs a shelter?
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It's not necessarily always easier, most "rescues" are breed specific, and specialize if pure breeds, you pay almost as much as getting them from a breeder. And the "transition" isn't always easier. My parents adopted a cocker spaniel from one of the rescue groups in their area, it was a puppy mill dog for 3 years before the rescue got ahold of it. That dog is a NUT CASE, it took them 2 years to potty train it, and since it had little socialization in it's early years it snaps at anyone but my mother...and barks. non. stop. She's gotten better but if there is so much as a drop of rain outside she secret poops in the house when no one is looking still (5 years later).
In terms of fostering just call your local animal shelter and tell them you are interested in fostering. Realize however that you will be fostering a variety of dogs (or cats) and probably puppies as well. Also, if you have SUCKER written across your forehead, like my husband and I do, you end up adopting more of them then you should. We had to stop fostering after the last dog.
There is only so much research and reading you can do, I never had a dog growing up, my husband and I adopted our first one 6 years ago, and it was a learning lesson for us both, mainly because he was so ill when we adopted him but you get through it, you invest in a good carpet steamer, and you move on. I'm really not sure how much more you can read on the topic if you are already prepped for the commitment and cost since those are the top two reasons people give up their pets.
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We got our beagle from Toronto Animal Services (basically the pound). I've had dogs most of my life, so I knew the kind of personality I was looking for in a dog. Our beagle was pretty quiet (unusual for beagles) and low key, but not overly timid (being afraid of everything can lead to a lot of problems). Breeds tend to have particular traits, but there's a big variation in personality from one dog to another. Figure out a few breeds that have traits you like, and figure out the kind of doggie personality you are interested in. If you can, bring someone you know who has a lot of experience with dogs along when you're looking at animals in the shelter. A dog becomes a pretty important part of the family, so it really helps to find one that will mesh well with your daily life.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5507/11553020964_a0043914b3.jpg)
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The important thing about dogs is in the training. You see lots of yippy bitey small dogs because people don't train them, they think they are small, and can't do much damage, so why invest the time? Just meet the dog, play with it, see how it reacts to you touching it's ears, paws etc. Walk it around the shelter and see how it reacts to other dogs etc, that's how you are going to find the dog for you.
+1000
Honestly it sounds like you are good on the internet/book research front. Just meet some dogs. Between the housing situation and a baby in the future, I agree with others' suggestion that fostering would be an awesome way to test the waters (and do a good deed) without the commitment right away.
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It's not necessarily always easier, most "rescues" are breed specific, and specialize if pure breeds, you pay almost as much as getting them from a breeder. And the "transition" isn't always easier. My parents adopted a cocker spaniel from one of the rescue groups in their area, it was a puppy mill dog for 3 years before the rescue got ahold of it. That dog is a NUT CASE, it took them 2 years to potty train it, and since it had little socialization in it's early years it snaps at anyone but my mother...and barks. non. stop. She's gotten better but if there is so much as a drop of rain outside she secret poops in the house when no one is looking still (5 years later).
In terms of fostering just call your local animal shelter and tell them you are interested in fostering. Realize however that you will be fostering a variety of dogs (or cats) and probably puppies as well. Also, if you have SUCKER written across your forehead, like my husband and I do, you end up adopting more of them then you should. We had to stop fostering after the last dog.
There is only so much research and reading you can do, I never had a dog growing up, my husband and I adopted our first one 6 years ago, and it was a learning lesson for us both, mainly because he was so ill when we adopted him but you get through it, you invest in a good carpet steamer, and you move on. I'm really not sure how much more you can read on the topic if you are already prepped for the commitment and cost since those are the top two reasons people give up their pets.
I think it also varies by region. There are a lot of rescues on the East Coast that pull dogs out of high kill shelters in the South & move them up to major cities so they can be adopted. Our rescue came from a rescue in KY that drove the dogs to MD every other weekend for adoption events. Insane. They had reduced the local shelter kill rate from 99% to less than 10%. Her adoption fee was $200 and our other pup's was $250 from a different rescue, as best as I remember. There are also breed specific rescues, and yes, those dogs can be expensive, especially if they are young.
There's no guarantees no matter what that you know what you're getting, but I do think OP is on the right track with finding a dog that has been fostered already. I'm not sure a rescue would accept someone as a foster home who has no experience with dogs though, but you could certainly try.
Finally, I guess what I think you should learn about now is more dog behavior/training information. When my parents & I got dogs for the first time when I was in high school, we just checked out a bunch of books from the library & read the ones that seemed most helpful (and most sane...looking at you Cesar Milan). But, we couldn't afford to take our dogs to a training class as others have suggested doing, so if that's in your budget then maybe that step isn't as important.
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I love our beagle/hound mix, such a great dog. The only challenge with most hounds is they must be leashed or in a fenced yard. Their nose takes control and aren't the dog that would stay next to you unleashed.
Consider adopting an adult dog, you'll already know their personality. Go walk dogs for a few weeks at a shelter first too
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OP, I wish you well in your quest to get a dog.
Personally, as someone who does dog rescue and who places dogs in home, I look for The Mom of the house to be into the dog. It worries me greatly when The Mom isn't fully on board, as in your case. Because my breed is one that's popular with men (Bulldogs) I am less interested in adopters when the man of the house is the one most into the dog. The Mom will be the one cleaning up messes, most likely.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't adopt to you, I'm just saying that personally, this situation would worry me for placement of a dog into your home. Babies on the horizon and a lukewarm reception by the woman of the house is a situation that doesn't give me confidence for the placement of a dog.
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OMG, GuitarStv, your dog in the Santa hat is sooo adorable!!
I have thought about getting a dog off and on (ultimately, my husband and I are probably not going to ever get one) because I love dogs, but I also never had one growing up or have cared for one for a significant period of time. I live two blocks from a dog park and so love watching the dogs and always think ... maybe? Ultimately, I don't think I can handle being responsible for another creature for such a long period of time. And it wouldn't be fair to take in a dog in this situation.
I would strongly suggest volunteering at an animal shelter, or fostering for shorter periods. I went through training at the shelter by me, and while I ultimately decided not to volunteer, I can see that doing so would really enable you to learn how to care for and train dogs, get more familiar with them, and build a relationship with the shelter that would enable you to eventually adopt a dog that fits with your lifestyle. If you foster dogs, you and your wife can get a sense for how having a dog would fit in to your life and how you can share the responsibilities.
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I deliberated a loooong time before getting my dog ten years ago, but when you just can't stop thinking about something for months and months, you should probably just go ahead and do it. I had dogs growing up, so I knew what I was getting into (one reason for the hesitation), but pets can be so life enriching--I don't regret it at all. If you just keep coming back to this question of whether to get a dog, just go ahead and do it! It means you really want to and maybe need to on some level.
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I deliberated a loooong time before getting my dog ten years ago, but when you just can't stop thinking about something for months and months, you should probably just go ahead and do it. I had dogs growing up, so I knew what I was getting into (one reason for the hesitation), but pets can be so life enriching--I don't regret it at all. If you just keep coming back to this question of whether to get a dog, just go ahead and do it! It means you really want to and maybe need to on some level.
I mean, I had a taste of this on various stunts of dog-sitting but we of course dog-sat the same dog on several different occasions and she's such a good dog so maybe I created some kind of bias. Outside of her being a good dog though, I felt like I absolutely *had* to be responsible for her health and it forced me to get outside to take her on walks and stuff, and I really enjoyed it. I don't know, maybe I felt a stronger sense of obligation since it was someone else's pet. So I guess what's concerning is if I won't feel the same way if I'm the owner. It's hard to believe I'd ever feel that way though considering how much I've wanted a dog my entire life and also dog-sitting (we would dog-sit for up to a month on a few different occasions).
Fostering still sounds like a great non-committal way to "get your feet wet" so maybe I'll give that a go initially. But when you foster, do you really have an option as to what kinds of dogs you are willing to care for? Is it more like the shelter sending out an email with a bunch of dogs in need of fostering, and you respond back choosing one to foster?
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Outside of her being a good dog though, I felt like I absolutely *had* to be responsible for her health and it forced me to get outside to take her on walks and stuff, and I really enjoyed it.
I love this too. My boyfriend and I were just talking about it while walking our dogs last night. We realized that even excluding other forms of exercise (which we do get regularly since we're both runners and enjoy hiking too), we at least go for a 30 minute walk pretty much EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. I kinda just forget about it and take it for granted. I feel super sedentary and lazy when I go a few days without running, but I'm still walking every day! It makes me realize just how sedentary it is possible to be in the average American lifestyle. Just, wow!
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OP, I wish you well in your quest to get a dog.
Personally, as someone who does dog rescue and who places dogs in home, I look for The Mom of the house to be into the dog. It worries me greatly when The Mom isn't fully on board, as in your case. Because my breed is one that's popular with men (Bulldogs) I am less interested in adopters when the man of the house is the one most into the dog. The Mom will be the one cleaning up messes, most likely.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't adopt to you, I'm just saying that personally, this situation would worry me for placement of a dog into your home. Babies on the horizon and a lukewarm reception by the woman of the house is a situation that doesn't give me confidence for the placement of a dog.
That's a great point. My wife doesn't fully agree with me on this but says she will support my decision. She actually really loves dogs and would be willing to help out but more as a secondary rather than primary. The onus of this is really on me since I want it most. Part of her apprehension comes from the fact that she decided to get two dogs (beagle/rottweilers) while she was in college and not at home very often. This was slightly at the disapproval of her parents, who let her take them in anyway, but set a bunch of ridiculous rules like "They can never be in the house. They are OUTSIDE dogs" and "I don't want you walking the dogs" (I am super ???? on this one) and now the dogs are quite unruly and not really house-trained at all. Giving them a bath (since they get super smelly) usually results in them darting over to the dirt patches and rolling themselves in it right away. They do know to pee/poo on the grass and not the cement. They also understand simple commands like "sit" and "paw" but are mostly unruly especially when you go out there to greet them - they jump all over you out of unbridled excitement (and each one weighs probably more than 50lbs). Trying to walk them on their leashes is a form of INTENSE exercise too. And her parents are away for up to 14-16 hours a day at times, leaving the dogs in the yard. Her dad just fills up a bowl of kibble every day, which is way more than they should have, because he knows he won't be home later. So the dogs are overweight and really not in the best physical shape at all. I think all of this weighs a burden on her because she knows she's the one who decided to take them in and these are the consequences now. The other thing is that they absolutely cannot be separated or they'll go crazy. It's a really tough situation, and I told her that if we had a bigger house with a larger yard, we would take them in. As it is though, I just don't think it would be suitable or fair (to me) to bring them into our current living situation. And I don't think she would want to bring them in as well.
I still wonder though - is the behavior described something that could be fixed with dog training/obedience? These dogs are probably coming up on 10years or so, so I don't know how 'fixable' the behavior is. If it is, then perhaps it's something we should consider (except for the yard part - these dogs have been used to living outside for 10 years now and we don't have a yard big enough to support them so they'd have to be inside most of the time, and I have no idea where we'd even house them for 8 hours a day). Any thoughts on this?
So ultimately, part of this decision is somewhat held up on my end because I'll feel bad if we get a dog while my wife is still living with the regret of her past dog-owning decision. Even though she says she's OK, she probably won't be fully OK about it. Not to mention the guilt she has told me she'd feel with giving love to a new dog when she knows how the others are somewhat neglected (and it's her fault mostly because she decided to bring them in). I think she obviously learned a big lesson and also wants to prevent me from making the same mistakes. I don't know, the more I think about it the more it makes me think it's not a great idea to adopt right now.
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I think house training would be the hard part with dogs that old, but definitely not impossible. The rest of it (poor leash behavior, excitement) sounds like pure loneliness/boredom. They also might be destructive inside if they've never been trained on what they can and cannot chew on, but they could have grown out of it by now. Do they chew on things around the yard? That would be my biggest concern personally.
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I think house training would be the hard part with dogs that old, but definitely not impossible. The rest of it (poor leash behavior, excitement) sounds like pure loneliness/boredom. They also might be destructive inside if they've never been trained on what they can and cannot chew on, but they could have grown out of it by now. Do they chew on things around the yard? That would be my biggest concern personally.
I see. I think it would be very burdensome trying to 'reverse' a lot of their bad behavior. I really don't know where we'd keep them inside our place either as they're not crate-trained and because the bathroom where we'd normally keep just one dog is probably *way* too small for them. About the separation anxiety, I don't know how bad it would be but if you try to walk them without each other they refuse to walk and go crazy sniffing for each others' scent.
They've absolutely never lived inside the house before so I think it would be a huge change for them. Not sure how big on chewing they are but I don't think there are a lot of toys in my in-laws' yard. Not sure what, if anything, they are chewing on these days. My father-in-law does plant a lot of stuff though (cacti and rose bushes, among other things) and I don't think he's had any issues with them digging stuff up or chewing on plants or other random things in the yard. They're relatively lazy dogs until someone comes around - then they get crazy excited and they also bark quite a bit too.
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I volunteer with a rescue.
We charge about $240 per dog, up and down a little depending on age. We get most of the dogs from high kill shelters in the south, and many are the by product of puppy mills. We transport them hundreds of miles. They are spayed or neutered if old enough, and they are given shots and often other vet care. We aren't making money on the adoptions, in fact, we are constantly running fundraisers to help pay the bills. We get a small discount from a few local vets, but vet care is very expensive. We also sometimes have to pay for boarding if we don't have enough fosters.
First, you need to make absolutely sure that you are allowed to have a dog, as many condos have HOAs that prohibit them, and you have to get the whole thing squared away with the parents. You also have to make sure that your wife is on board with this and that the dog will remain a member of the family if you do have kids down the pike. It is not fair to the dog to do otherwise.
I would recommend that you not focus so much on breed as on temper. Small dogs are often more difficult on a number of levels. As a pp mentioned, often they aren't well trained because people think they are too small to be much of a threat. They also have a much higher incidence of housebreaking issues than larger dogs.
I would also recommend an adult dog over a puppy. Puppies are a whole hell of a lot of work. I've had both and I'd never do a puppy again. If you volunteer with a shelter or a foster, you would be able to get to know a bunch of dogs, and as an added benefit you'll have an inside advantage when the perfect dog arrives.
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OMG those poor dogs. I totally understand your wife's hesitation/guilt!!
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My family had dogs all through growing up, but I would *NEVER* own a dog without also owning a place with a yard big enough to keep said dog in. Indoor dogs destroy your stuff! Shoot, we had a dog that even ate our fence and several bushes outdoors. Small dogs, from what I hear, are almost worse than big dogs - you don't expect them to be as destructive as they are so aren't as prepared for it.
I would also not get a dog if you're actively planning on having a baby soon. It's not fair to the baby, the dog, or you - you will not have sufficient time for everything. Baby's crying, dog wants a walk, it's time for breakfast, and you haven't slept in a week? Too bad, you need to do it all. And never expect any animal to behave around your child.
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My family had dogs all through growing up, but I would *NEVER* own a dog without also owning a place with a yard big enough to keep said dog in. Indoor dogs destroy your stuff! Shoot, we had a dog that even ate our fence and several bushes outdoors. Small dogs, from what I hear, are almost worse than big dogs - you don't expect them to be as destructive as they are so aren't as prepared for it.
I would also not get a dog if you're actively planning on having a baby soon. It's not fair to the baby, the dog, or you - you will not have sufficient time for everything. Baby's crying, dog wants a walk, it's time for breakfast, and you haven't slept in a week? Too bad, you need to do it all. And never expect any animal to behave around your child.
Neither of my dogs have ever destroyed anything...Definitely not true that they "destroy everything". Your dog probably destroyed those things because he or she was bored. You just need to be prepared for the level of mental stimulation that different dogs require and keep them occupied.
Agree though that, unless the dog is being fostered by someone with a baby, there are no guarantees about the dog/baby mix. I would give the dog at least a year with a family to settle in & learned how to behave before adding a baby in the mix.
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My family had dogs all through growing up, but I would *NEVER* own a dog without also owning a place with a yard big enough to keep said dog in. Indoor dogs destroy your stuff! Shoot, we had a dog that even ate our fence and several bushes outdoors. Small dogs, from what I hear, are almost worse than big dogs - you don't expect them to be as destructive as they are so aren't as prepared for it.
I think this is a YMMV/"what is the dog used to" thing. I've had indoor dogs my whole life and would never even CONSIDER making a dog an "outdoor dog." To me the whole point of having dogs is that you want to hang out with them, so why would you get a dog just to make it live outside?!? We have 80 lbs worth of indoor dog in my 1100 sf house (a 50 lb husky/GSD mix and a 30 lb mystery mutt that may be some kind of Jack Russell/blue heeler/pit mix), and the destruction only started when we got the 30 lb dog earlier this year as an 8-week-old puppy, and has dramatically decreased over time as she gets older.
That being said, it definitely makes your life easier if you have a yard to let them out in, especially small puppies that have to go out in the middle of the night. Also I agree completely on your baby/dog comments.
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I would not have a dog if my co-owner did not agree to have one. It sounds like you're a tenant rather than co-owner anyway.
The arrangement with your parents seems like a rental agreement rather than an ownership one. They want to retain ownership and divide the property value between all children upon death. (I don't think there's anything wrong with this on their part.)
I understand you want a dog, but your landlords (parents) don't want to permit it. You might want to look for a different rental if you're not happy with pet restrictions or with their plans on how to handle property disposal in their will.
If you move somewhere where pets are okay, I'd still think long and hard especially if your wife is reluctant and you may be expecting a new baby soon.
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In our community, I'm pretty sure pets are OK as I've seen numerous residents walking their dogs and such. I think the main point is that they keep their animals under control especially in terms of barking and what not.
As far as with my parents, I know they don't want it but there's a chance they'll still be OK with it. This part hasn't been clarified yet but we did mention to them we wanted to dog-sit before and they didn't say NO. This is why I'm leaning towards fostering now, since it's not really a permanent thing. I think they'd probably have more issues if it were a permanent thing for us.
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You should clear that up the question with your parents in advance and find out your community rules. Many shelters/rescues contact landlords of adopters to check before allowing adoption. For good reason--taking in animals where they're not allowed is a common way for pets to end up homeless (turned in to shelters, abandoned, etc) when they're found out.
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We have 80 lbs worth of indoor dog in my 1100 sf house (a 50 lb husky/GSD mix and a 30 lb mystery mutt that may be some kind of Jack Russell/blue heeler/pit mix), and the destruction only started when we got the 30 lb dog earlier this year as an 8-week-old puppy, and has dramatically decreased over time as she gets older.
I suppose I should have mentioned, the real destruction was when our 80# shepherd mutt was an adolescent. But boy, was there ever destruction! She had a huge yard and went on walks and everything, didn't matter - fences got eaten.
I think this is a YMMV/"what is the dog used to" thing. I've had indoor dogs my whole life and would never even CONSIDER making a dog an "outdoor dog." To me the whole point of having dogs is that you want to hang out with them, so why would you get a dog just to make it live outside?!?
Why not hang out with the dog outside? To me, dogs are animals, and animals live outside. Especially animals as messy as dogs. Every indoor-dog house I've been in has been disgusting by comparison to my outdoor-dog house or no-dog houses I've been to.
For the situation at hand, if you must negotiate with your parents on this, ask if putting $5,000 into a partially-refundable (They keep whatever it costs to do any cleaning & repairs; refund the rest) pet deposit will dissuade them. That should cover most of the possible costs, as long as you don't have hardwood/laminate flooring and the dog isn't especially destructive to the building.
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Dogs to make the house hairy. But if I was that worried about it, I wouldn't get a dog to banish outside, I'd just skip the dog altogether.
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The OP lives in a condo. How can he keep the dog "outside?"
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The OP lives in a condo. How can he keep the dog "outside?"
Well, we do have a small yard but I would never put my dog out there. Also, I hear it's unsafe to keep dogs outside in our area. At least, my local shelter will not allow anyone to adopt who cannot keep a dog indoors. This is because there are quite a few coyotes in our area and there have been plenty of incidents.
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This is a timely question for me, as this month we just adopted our second shelter dog (we had the first for 14 years before he passed away).
We adopted a 40 lb, 10 month old, black lab mix. She is very sweet to us and strangers out of the house, but we discovered after bringing her home that she has some fear-based territorial aggression (ie., she barked nonstop, snarled, growled, etc at people entering our house or yard, even after trying to quiet her, letting visitors into the house for awhile, etc). She shows none of this to strangers outside of our property and no forms of aggression towards us, but we don't want to have a dog we can't have around people in our home. We brought in a behavioral specialist right away, have been working with her, the dog has made great strides already (using all positive counter conditioning and desensitization if anyone's curious), and it seems like she'll be able to get over this issue. My point is that one should plan on unexpected issues with any new dog (shelter or not)and be prepared to spend the money in the beginning in order to deal with issues upfront to ensure everyone in the family a great next 10-15 yrs.
So far, we've spent on her:
adoption fee $150
initial vet visit $100
crate, haltie training head halter, collar, leashes, brush, toys (esp chew toys to keep her from chewing up our house), dog tag, etc $250
house visit of animal behaviorist $100
dog training class (very needed for socialization) $150
So, $750 upfront. And while it might not seem mustachian, if one if going to have a dog , IME, spending similar upfront on proper training and training equipment will save in the long term. We are also spending about $50 a month on her food, treats, and maintenance items (tractor supply 50 lb bag, cheap treats, small pieces of cheese for training, flea/tick meds, etc). We will be boarding her over thanksgiving and xmas (total of about $180) because we don't feel that she's ready for large crowds and people coming and going yet. But, hopefully, after that we can take her to visit family, etc and just board her once a yr or so.
So, after upfront costs, I'm thinking she'll cost about $600 a year for food/maintenance, another $100 or so for boarding, and $200ish a year for vet bills (expected average over her life). So, about $900 a year, or $75 a mo after the startup. To me, a dog is totally worth $750 upfront and $75 a mo, but one getting a dog should mentally plan for spending around this and avoid the temptation to go cheap in ways that could wind up resulting in longer term expenses, unhappiness, or even devastation (eg., the dog bites, gets hit by a car, seriously hurts another dog, completely destroys a room when left alone, etc) that could be avoided through spending adequately on proper training, equipment, and boarding/care when needed.
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The OP lives in a condo. How can he keep the dog "outside?"
My family had dogs all through growing up, but I would *NEVER* own a dog without also owning a place with a yard big enough to keep said dog in.
I'm saying the OP should reconsider owning a dog without also occupying a place for the dog to be outside.
Well, we do have a small yard but I would never put my dog out there. Also, I hear it's unsafe to keep dogs outside in our area. At least, my local shelter will not allow anyone to adopt who cannot keep a dog indoors. This is because there are quite a few coyotes in our area and there have been plenty of incidents.
In my neighborhood we had wild animals, but we had dogs big enough to hang without problems.
Man, very different views here - I consider it borderline inhumane to keep dogs indoors (and feel that it'll wreck your living environment), most here seem to find in inhumane to keep the dog outdoors.
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Man, very different views here - I consider it borderline inhumane to keep dogs indoors (and feel that it'll wreck your living environment), most here seem to find in inhumane to keep the dog outdoors.
ha, I do think it's interesting. my views may have started from growing up with a toy poodle--definitely not big enough to hang with the wild animals, LOL--but also I think my opinion on outdoor dogs softens if you have more than one dog and they are buddies. until this year I've never had more than one, and it just seems super lonely and boring to me to be a dog in the yard all by yourself. I mean, I think we spend more time outside (grilling, hanging out on the porch, etc.) than a lot of people and I STILL think the vast majority of our time is spent inside, at least on weekday evenings. I mean, ya gotta cook dinner and fold laundry sometime. plus for part of the year it's just uncomfortable outside (for us to hang out, I know people put together really nice insulated doghouses and stuff). our dogs already don't get that much time with us since we work 40 hrs a week, it would be super sad if it was just one dog and it only got to hang out with us for, like, an hour a day.
also I don't feel my living environment is wrecked, but it IS covered in dog hair much of the time, and I am very glad we have hardwood floors or I think I would be way more grossed out. before I met my boyfriend (the owner of the husky/shepherd mix), I was sure I NEVER wanted a dog that sheds. well, I got over it. haha.
anyway, sorry to derail your thread OP! :)
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Man, very different views here - I consider it borderline inhumane to keep dogs indoors (and feel that it'll wreck your living environment), most here seem to find in inhumane to keep the dog outdoors.
ha, I do think it's interesting. my views may have started from growing up with a toy poodle--definitely not big enough to hang with the wild animals, LOL--but also I think my opinion on outdoor dogs softens if you have more than one dog and they are buddies. until this year I've never had more than one, and it just seems super lonely and boring to me to be a dog in the yard all by yourself. I mean, I think we spend more time outside (grilling, hanging out on the porch, etc.) than a lot of people and I STILL think the vast majority of our time is spent inside, at least on weekday evenings. I mean, ya gotta cook dinner and fold laundry sometime. plus for part of the year it's just uncomfortable outside (for us to hang out, I know people put together really nice insulated doghouses and stuff). our dogs already don't get that much time with us since we work 40 hrs a week, it would be super sad if it was just one dog and it only got to hang out with us for, like, an hour a day.
also I don't feel my living environment is wrecked, but it IS covered in dog hair much of the time, and I am very glad we have hardwood floors or I think I would be way more grossed out. before I met my boyfriend (the owner of the husky/shepherd mix), I was sure I NEVER wanted a dog that sheds. well, I got over it. haha.
anyway, sorry to derail your thread OP! :)
lol, no worries. It's really great getting varied perspectives of people who are current or previous dog owners and those who are simply against the idea of it (obviously, it's not the most "Mustachian" way to go but it is more of a quality of life thing). I feel conflicted because I do want to focus on saving and we are quite comfortable where we are now. It may just take some continued negotiation and coaxing of my parents before they actually come around. Right now, their whole response to me pleading my case is to hole up and avoid talking about it.
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Edit: I just read the post about your wife's dogs. Gosh, that is really hard. Your wife needs to be on board. Do her parents live nearby. If you would consider taking those dogs in, maybe talk to a good trainer to see what the chances are of them adjusting to indoor life would be. Older dogs are trainable. You would have to crate train them. But likely at 10+ years old, they will spend most of the day sleeping anyway. And if you walked them daily it sounds like they would get more exercise than they are now. That is a tough situation.
Yea I think it's hard for my wife whenever she thinks about it. Unfortunately, her parents live over an hour away (not including LA traffic). If we were closer, we would probably consider helping out much more. I'll have to ask one of my acquaintances, who happens to be a vet (or is finishing up at vet school) to see how it could work out. Yes, the walking part would be huge for them. My wife says her dad has been taking them out on walks more frequently so I should ask how that's been going and if he still has been doing it. Her parents run a restaurant and totally overwork themselves (without realizing it). They're close to 70 and have entertained the thought of retiring but I always take that with a grain of salt, knowing that they consider the restaurant as their child, pretty much. So in terms of dogs, there's little to no time for them. I was kind of urging my wife to try to find a good rescue that could re-home these dogs because I really don't think it's fair for the dogs right now. But if there's any hope that they could potentially be re-homed to us, I might consider it. I don't want to get myself into something that I'd really resent, however. Her parents seem to take on the same perspective as "The Architect" does where dogs are animals and belong outdoors haha. But due to all the time constraints and obligations they have with the restaurant, they don't really seem to be doing a very good job caring for the dogs.
Actually, I just checked through my emails and saw that I asked the acquaintance vet a question but he never replied back. I'll see if I can follow up with him on it to get some advice. However, even if it is possible to re-train them and such, I think I'd still be at odds with my parents.
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I'm saying the OP should reconsider owning a dog without also occupying a place for the dog to be outside.
To be fair, the OP was originally considering dogs that were under 15 lbs. Condo living is certainly fine for tiny dogs. I've also met shepherd mixes that are not destructive/toy-driven AT ALL and just want to hang out on the floor at your feet. YMMV certainly. I also know a door-chewer. :)
OP, you sound like a prime candidate for volunteering at your local shelter, rather than adopting. With condo owners AND your wife not being on board, I'd probably wait rather than force the issue. Volunteering would satisfy your canine needs for now, plus you would gain valuable experience working with the different kinds of dogs (not just breed, but temperament too.) And as a volunteer, you would probably be able to foster the occasional dog if you wanted.
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Thanks! For a first-time dog owner, would you advise *against* going to a shelter/rescue then? Is it better to contact a breeder or find a new puppy via Craigslist or something vs dealing with a potentially traumatized dog from a shelter and having to re-home it? Especially if there are certain preferences for the dog (e.g. smaller dog that sheds very little, etc)
Rescue/ shelter dogs make wonderful pets. Over the years, I've adopted so many rescue dogs that I've lost track and I'd never do it any other way. Of them all, three had been abused and yes, it took a little time to work through some issues but it is so incredibly rewarding and dogs bounce back pretty quickly with a little love, consistency, and patience.
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Understanding that everyone feels differently about stuff like this, I'll never own another dog once the one we have is gone. Don't get me wrong, our little dog leads a charmed life, and she's kind of funny to have around. But - dogs are expensive. Not so much food, toys, beds, etc., but vet bills, boarding them EVERY SINGLE TIME you want to go out of town somewhere, cleaning and/or replacing stuff they tear up or pee all over, you name it. Dogs also limit what you can do and in that regard are kind of like having another child. Want to go out after work? Cant, have to go home and let the dog out. Want to go out of town with the Mrs. for the weekend, kind of spur of the moment? Can't, nobody to watch the dog, too late to get them boarded. See what I mean? And a lot of people who have pets are absolutely, totally ok with these things, and that's great. But just understand what you're getting into before you do it. If you're not OK with these things, don't get a pet, as the only thing that's worse is someone who does get a pet and mistreats it because they didn't understand how much of a commitment it was. Good luck.
I do agree that travel and a spur-of-the-moment lifestyle changes once you get a dog. However, there are crafty ways around it. Camping with your dog--easy. Most state parks allow dogs. Also, having an animal sharing system with fellow dog owning friends is great. You take care of their pets when they're out of town, they do the same for you. Maybe a few bucks gets passed in the process, but nothing like boarding. Also, a good number of casual restaurants have dog-friendly patios these days, so you can go out after work--just take him or her with you! The biggest question I ask friends when they want to hang out, "can it be a walk? Can my dog come?" in this way, my little nugget SAVES me money!
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I'm saying the OP should reconsider owning a dog without also occupying a place for the dog to be outside.
To be fair, the OP was originally considering dogs that were under 15 lbs. Condo living is certainly fine for tiny dogs. I've also met shepherd mixes that are not destructive/toy-driven AT ALL and just want to hang out on the floor at your feet. YMMV certainly. I also know a door-chewer. :)
OP, you sound like a prime candidate for volunteering at your local shelter, rather than adopting. With condo owners AND your wife not being on board, I'd probably wait rather than force the issue. Volunteering would satisfy your canine needs for now, plus you would gain valuable experience working with the different kinds of dogs (not just breed, but temperament too.) And as a volunteer, you would probably be able to foster the occasional dog if you wanted.
Yes, I am now considering just volunteering instead as that sounds like something I could get into. Unfortunately, my local shelter down the street is in the process of restructuring their volunteer program and told me to check back in a few months :(
In the meantime, I'll have to look around and see if there are other nearby shelters I could volunteer at.
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Sorry, I didn't read all the replies before this posting but -
Please get a rescue dog - there are so many wonderful pets needing a home.
I have a real problem in general with the pet breeding market and many of the practices (and costs).
You can research some breeds, and if there are some breeds you are specifically interested in, check out petfinder.com which is an aggregate site for several breed specific rescue groups. Most of these groups take in breed mixes as well that are close to the focus breed, and many rescues don't come with their full history. Most of these groups also have foster programs, so you could test this out by fostering.
Good luck, and I want a picture when you get your new dog!
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I am 58 and have always had dogs. We have had outside and inside dogs. I will always have indoor dogs from now on, the relationship is just so much better. We have the luxury of a fenced yard, so the dog can go out if he wants... but he only wants to go out if you go with him. This dog is now 10 years old. My suggestions are to okay it with your parents (agree to pay for any damages). I also recommend that you get a shelter dog that is 2 - 3 years old. There are so many fantastic dogs available whose owners either choose to give them up or circumstances force them to. That is past the puppy chewing stage and a dog at that age is able to wait 8 hours to get out to potty. Raising a new puppy is every bit as much work as a new baby. You have to get up in the middle of the night to potty. They chew on EVERYTHING, and it is hard to housebreak if you aren't there. A puppy is physically not able to go more than 5 hours or so between potty breaks. Good luck and I hope you find a great match.
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How do you do with plants? I ask because with all of the important people in your life trying to dissuade you from this decision, could there be a reason?
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How do you do with plants? I ask because with all of the important people in your life trying to dissuade you from this decision, could there be a reason?
If there were a more particular reason, involving something specifically wrong with me, I think it would be pretty clear.
My parents never have and never will like pets that are not caged and my wife is semi-traumatized from taking on a couple of dogs who she wasn't able to care for and had to leave with her parents to care for. Not sure what other reason(s) there are...
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I would bet that there are rescues near you looking for volunteers and most are chronically short of fosters. Go on Petfinder and you'll probably find some.
Keep in mind that rescues are generally staffed entirely by volunteers. That means these are people who probably have full time jobs, kids, activities, etc., so they may not respond instantly. I will also be the first to admit that some of the people who volunteer with rescues are a little over the top, and often a bit burnt out from dealing with crappy people who do stupid things to animals. Most rescues I've encountered have at least one of these people, and they can be off-putting. But they are trying to do the best they can for the animals, and they need new people to foster.
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We have an English setter and have gone from spending a load on her to being much more frugal.
My no 1 tip is to raw feed. It saves so many health problems in the long run, helps keep teeth clean, reduces allergies, and is much cheaper than a good-quality kibble. My dog is 55 lb and it costs me under $1 a day to feed her. Would have to run math to say exactly how little. Also, I give her all the veg and fruit scraps (broccoli stems, apple cores, half-eaten bananas and sweet potatoes the kids leave), which is less wasteful and makes me feel happy!
I bought the dog as a puppy, but next time we will get a rescue. Probably another setter, though I wouldn't recommend them for a first-time dog as they are hard to train and need a lot of activity when young.
Go for a retriever, Labrador or a greyhound if you want an easy family-friendly dog.
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I would bet that there are rescues near you looking for volunteers and most are chronically short of fosters. Go on Petfinder and you'll probably find some.
Keep in mind that rescues are generally staffed entirely by volunteers. That means these are people who probably have full time jobs, kids, activities, etc., so they may not respond instantly. I will also be the first to admit that some of the people who volunteer with rescues are a little over the top, and often a bit burnt out from dealing with crappy people who do stupid things to animals. Most rescues I've encountered have at least one of these people, and they can be off-putting. But they are trying to do the best they can for the animals, and they need new people to foster.
I'll start looking around for volunteer opportunities. Fostering may still be up in the air depending on how my parents feel about having a dog in the house. What you say about the burn-out and "over-the-top" attitude is exactly the kinds of things I've read on Yelp reviews of my closest local shelter which is currently undergoing a restructure for the volunteer program... and that might be one of the reasons why too! A lot of reviewers spoke of terrible experiences with the some of the people at the shelter who were just plain rude when they tried to view some of the animals.
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We have an English setter and have gone from spending a load on her to being much more frugal.
My no 1 tip is to raw feed. It saves so many health problems in the long run, helps keep teeth clean, reduces allergies, and is much cheaper than a good-quality kibble. My dog is 55 lb and it costs me under $1 a day to feed her. Would have to run math to say exactly how little. Also, I give her all the veg and fruit scraps (broccoli stems, apple cores, half-eaten bananas and sweet potatoes the kids leave), which is less wasteful and makes me feel happy!
I bought the dog as a puppy, but next time we will get a rescue. Probably another setter, though I wouldn't recommend them for a first-time dog as they are hard to train and need a lot of activity when young.
Go for a retriever, Labrador or a greyhound if you want an easy family-friendly dog.
Interesting perspective on raw feeding. What else besides veggie and fruit scraps would you give a dog if "raw feeding" though? Don't they need protein as well? So would you feed them bones and other meat scraps too?
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I would bet that there are rescues near you looking for volunteers and most are chronically short of fosters. Go on Petfinder and you'll probably find some.
Keep in mind that rescues are generally staffed entirely by volunteers. That means these are people who probably have full time jobs, kids, activities, etc., so they may not respond instantly. I will also be the first to admit that some of the people who volunteer with rescues are a little over the top, and often a bit burnt out from dealing with crappy people who do stupid things to animals. Most rescues I've encountered have at least one of these people, and they can be off-putting. But they are trying to do the best they can for the animals, and they need new people to foster.
I'll start looking around for volunteer opportunities. Fostering may still be up in the air depending on how my parents feel about having a dog in the house. What you say about the burn-out and "over-the-top" attitude is exactly the kinds of things I've read on Yelp reviews of my closest local shelter which is currently undergoing a restructure for the volunteer program... and that might be one of the reasons why too! A lot of reviewers spoke of terrible experiences with the some of the people at the shelter who were just plain rude when they tried to view some of the animals.
Many folks approach the shelters and the rescues with the attitude that they are doing the rescues a huge favor and that the rescues should be thrilled at the opportunity to offload the dogs onto anybody who waltzes in. I'll admit, that was sort of my feeling the first time we went to adopt a dog from a rescue.
Volunteering, you see the other side. Many of these animals have been in lousy situations, and the rescues want to see that they don't end up in another one. The rescues/shelters have rules of varying strictness. Some won't adopt to people who don't own their own home or have a fenced yard or who are gone all day long or who don't make enough money or whatever other rule they might have. Sounds ridiculous on the face of it, but they develop the rules generally based on situations that cause a lot of returns. Being returned is very hard on a dog, and can make them far less adoptable.
You get a lot of people who come in who clearly are not in a good position to take the kind of dog they want. We've had people in their late 80s insist that they want very high energy, high strength young dogs. We have people who clearly want to use the dogs for dog fights or breed them. We have people who have no-pets clauses in their leases, but want to adopt anyway, and they can be very nasty when their applications aren't approved.
My rescue doesn't adopt puppies to homes where no one is home for more than four hours at a time. That's because they were getting lots of puppies returned for mostly housebreaking reasons. The puppy comes back as not such a cute puppy any more, and it's going to be tougher to housebreak and thus to place. If that's your situation, you can adopt an adult dog from them.
They wouldn't adopt to you, quite honestly, if your parents weren't on board and the condo association (if you have one) doesn't allow it.
I don't make the rules for our rescue and I try to stay out of the politics. I just work at clinics. We have one slightly crazy lady who is an officer, who freely admits she hates people after all she's seen. I think she's burnt out, but she does work very hard.
The role of the rescue is to find good, permanent, loving homes for the dogs. it's not to make people happy by giving them puppies. I think some of the rescue staff gets a little hung up on finding perfect homes though, and that's probably what you see with the Yelp reviews. Nobody likes to think that their situation is being judged as not good enough.
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Thanks for the insight! Definitely a good perspective into the other side of how things work.
I checked the HOA regulations and they do allow pets but within limit (I think no more than two animals is what it says). As far as my parents are concerned, they stay fairly silent about matters like these. When we dog-sat on several occasions, they never really said anything. I think they may have asked where the dog stays and we told them in the 2nd bathroom. They were kind of just like "oh okay" and probably something along the lines of "make sure it doesn't make a mess or whatever"
Still, that was under the premise that it was temporary anyway. So it would be good to clarify with them the idea of fostering at least. As far as puppies vs adults, I've been inclined to go with an adult (or younger dog even) with that in mind. A puppy would be nice, since you can see/track their growth, but I already know that would be too much work starting out of the gates. I'd rather start out owning a more behaved adult/young dog, and if it's something I really love then would consider puppies after. But never from the beginning - that was something I've always been pretty resolved on.
I would bet that there are rescues near you looking for volunteers and most are chronically short of fosters. Go on Petfinder and you'll probably find some.
Keep in mind that rescues are generally staffed entirely by volunteers. That means these are people who probably have full time jobs, kids, activities, etc., so they may not respond instantly. I will also be the first to admit that some of the people who volunteer with rescues are a little over the top, and often a bit burnt out from dealing with crappy people who do stupid things to animals. Most rescues I've encountered have at least one of these people, and they can be off-putting. But they are trying to do the best they can for the animals, and they need new people to foster.
I'll start looking around for volunteer opportunities. Fostering may still be up in the air depending on how my parents feel about having a dog in the house. What you say about the burn-out and "over-the-top" attitude is exactly the kinds of things I've read on Yelp reviews of my closest local shelter which is currently undergoing a restructure for the volunteer program... and that might be one of the reasons why too! A lot of reviewers spoke of terrible experiences with the some of the people at the shelter who were just plain rude when they tried to view some of the animals.
Many folks approach the shelters and the rescues with the attitude that they are doing the rescues a huge favor and that the rescues should be thrilled at the opportunity to offload the dogs onto anybody who waltzes in. I'll admit, that was sort of my feeling the first time we went to adopt a dog from a rescue.
Volunteering, you see the other side. Many of these animals have been in lousy situations, and the rescues want to see that they don't end up in another one. The rescues/shelters have rules of varying strictness. Some won't adopt to people who don't own their own home or have a fenced yard or who are gone all day long or who don't make enough money or whatever other rule they might have. Sounds ridiculous on the face of it, but they develop the rules generally based on situations that cause a lot of returns. Being returned is very hard on a dog, and can make them far less adoptable.
You get a lot of people who come in who clearly are not in a good position to take the kind of dog they want. We've had people in their late 80s insist that they want very high energy, high strength young dogs. We have people who clearly want to use the dogs for dog fights or breed them. We have people who have no-pets clauses in their leases, but want to adopt anyway, and they can be very nasty when their applications aren't approved.
My rescue doesn't adopt puppies to homes where no one is home for more than four hours at a time. That's because they were getting lots of puppies returned for mostly housebreaking reasons. The puppy comes back as not such a cute puppy any more, and it's going to be tougher to housebreak and thus to place. If that's your situation, you can adopt an adult dog from them.
They wouldn't adopt to you, quite honestly, if your parents weren't on board and the condo association (if you have one) doesn't allow it.
I don't make the rules for our rescue and I try to stay out of the politics. I just work at clinics. We have one slightly crazy lady who is an officer, who freely admits she hates people after all she's seen. I think she's burnt out, but she does work very hard.
The role of the rescue is to find good, permanent, loving homes for the dogs. it's not to make people happy by giving them puppies. I think some of the rescue staff gets a little hung up on finding perfect homes though, and that's probably what you see with the Yelp reviews. Nobody likes to think that their situation is being judged as not good enough.
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Re: raw feeding. Yes, they need lots and lots of protein. Dogs are not designed to digest carbohydrates or grains, or cooked meat, which is basically what kibble and canned foods are made of. I feed chicken wings, chicken backs, turkey necks, minced turkey, tinned salmon and sardines on occasion, livers and other offal. Also large weight-bearing bones (like knuckle bones) just for a fun pastime for the dog. All raw and whole, unless it is a tiny dog, in which case you could break it up a bit. You can buy in bulk from butcher/ wholesaler and freeze. I add a few supplements like fish oil and glucosamine as my dog has a hip defect. You save on vet bills big time, as chronic diseases are reduced, and your dog will never need to have its teeth professionally cleaned, which is a huge money spinner. Even makes the dog less smelly and scratchy! Loads of great books and websites out there on raw feeding.
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Re: raw feeding. Yes, they need lots and lots of protein. Dogs are not designed to digest carbohydrates or grains, or cooked meat, which is basically what kibble and canned foods are made of. I feed chicken wings, chicken backs, turkey necks, minced turkey, tinned salmon and sardines on occasion, livers and other offal. Also large weight-bearing bones (like knuckle bones) just for a fun pastime for the dog. All raw and whole, unless it is a tiny dog, in which case you could break it up a bit. You can buy in bulk from butcher/ wholesaler and freeze. I add a few supplements like fish oil and glucosamine as my dog has a hip defect. You save on vet bills big time, as chronic diseases are reduced, and your dog will never need to have its teeth professionally cleaned, which is a huge money spinner. Even makes the dog less smelly and scratchy! Loads of great books and websites out there on raw feeding.
What about the bacteria and potential of salmonella ?
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I love animals and I am wholeheartedly in support of anybody who wants to have pets. However, it is with regret that I will echo all the other commenters who have said to square it with your parents first. If you have some ability to make those home repairs yourself, that might help. 2 major areas are carpets and door frames -- my dogs that I had growing up never went for the door frames, but some dogs do and a lot of cats do. Carpets are kind of a no-brainer, they will absorb the smell, the dog might dig in them, and the dog will almost certainly pee/poop/vomit.
Honestly, fostering sounds nice but I don't recommend it at all for people who haven't ever had a pet before. It might sound like a low-commitment way to have a dog, but a) fosters are often rehabilitating the animals, and that can be difficult and require advanced dog knowledge; and b) you'll get attached to it and then have to give it up.
Also, in my experience hardwood or laminate flooring is much better for pets than carpet. It's not as destructible. Just keep their claws clipped and make sure to care for the finish.
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I still think it would add to quality of life and also force me to get off my lazy butt and get outside for some walks and other exercise.
Couldn't you get these same benefits by just volunteering at a shelter? Or by starting a dog walking business?
Every dollar you spend on a dog is a dollar not working for you, which means more time to retirement.
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Six years ago, I started volunteering with two rescues groups--one for cats and the other for dogs. I started hankering for a pet but had never had one before so I thought volunteering would be a good intro. After about 3 months, I adopted a pair of cats. I still volunteer with both rescue groups.
OP, sort out your condo situation with your parents before you adopt a dog. If you adopt from a private rescue group like mine--they will need confirmation that your condo building and owner(s) accepts dogs. So poo-pooing your parents' concerns or objections may seem the easy way out now, but don't be surprised if you're turned down by a rescue group. The dog rescue group I volunteer with pretty much is the poster child for the dog rescue nazi stereotype. It annoys me at times but most of it stems from the intention of protecting the dogs.
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I still think it would add to quality of life and also force me to get off my lazy butt and get outside for some walks and other exercise.
Couldn't you get these same benefits by just volunteering at a shelter? Or by starting a dog walking business?
Every dollar you spend on a dog is a dollar not working for you, which means more time to retirement.
True - that is a good point. I'll be looking into volunteering at least. Not sure about the dog walking business but I'll have to look into that too, especially since there's the added benefit of making money on the side :) Although with dog-walking, I've often wondered how one gets into the business, no less starts one themselves... I'd probably need to volunteer first and gain much more experience, or at least do stuff for free before charging people haha
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Re: raw feeding. Yes, they need lots and lots of protein. Dogs are not designed to digest carbohydrates or grains, or cooked meat, which is basically what kibble and canned foods are made of. I feed chicken wings, chicken backs, turkey necks, minced turkey, tinned salmon and sardines on occasion, livers and other offal. Also large weight-bearing bones (like knuckle bones) just for a fun pastime for the dog. All raw and whole, unless it is a tiny dog, in which case you could break it up a bit. You can buy in bulk from butcher/ wholesaler and freeze. I add a few supplements like fish oil and glucosamine as my dog has a hip defect. You save on vet bills big time, as chronic diseases are reduced, and your dog will never need to have its teeth professionally cleaned, which is a huge money spinner. Even makes the dog less smelly and scratchy! Loads of great books and websites out there on raw feeding.
What about the bacteria and potential of salmonella ?
Dogs evolved as scavengers. They've got very tough tummies with regards to germs and stuff that would be harmful to people. Wild dogs often have a surprisingly large portion of their diet made up of various types of animal poop. :P
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Just a couple comments (wife is head of a rescue for bully breeds):
(1) You will find that many rescues / shelters come off as very unfriendly. I find this is for two reasons: (1) many animal people are not people-people, and (2) they have experienced so many morons and liars if they have been doing it long enough, that they are jaded and protective. Try to have a thick skin if you go this direction, most of them truly care about the animals, and that's what counts.
(2) If you or the family are a little tentative on adopting, you might try fostering, or foster-to-adopt. You may find you are not as into ownership as you thought you were; conversely, your family may relax and be a little less uptight about it. If you get attached to the dog, generally you can adopt the foster. The rescues call that a 'failed foster' but that's not really a derogative term, and again the point is to save a dog. One less in their network means one more that can be saved.
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Few things to say/reiterate:
(1) Different adoption fees are usually the result of different charitable financial backing. The rescue we got our dog from recently raised adoption fees, as they lost a big supporter. Shelters backed with govt. money typically have lower fees. In most cases, the money spent to rescue and rehabilitate the dog is much higher than the adoption fee.
(2) Old dogs are amazing and under-appreciated! You most certainly can teach an old dog new tricks. We adopted our dog as a senior, and he is an angel (mostly...). When we got him, he knew how to sit, and was potty trained. That was several months ago, and now he can "leave it," "shake," "lie down," and "stay" like a pro. He can also play the "shell game," which is adorable. I highly recommend adopting an adult dog, because puppies are super energetic and needy, and I'd push you to consider an older dog as well. Our dog is still active, just not "needs at least two hours of high-impact exercise" active. He's also more chill at home - never had him chew something up that wasn't his toy (excepting food that's left in his reach unattended), for example. Only time there was an indoor accident was when he had diarrhea and we didn't realize it. :-/
(3) Dogs can be very expensive, and you need to think about what you would do in case of an emergency. Case in point: My dog just got bloat and we had to decide in 5-10 minutes at the vet whether to put him to sleep or pay $5000 (included hospitalization for a couple days immediately following surgery). You might want to get *reputable* pet insurance if that might be an issue. Not only is it costly, but if you don't proceed with treatment, you may not be a considered a good candidate for adoption in the future. (And since I mentioned old dogs above, age is not a factor for something like bloat, except perhaps in recovery as advanced age may mean increased risk of other conditions that decrease survival rate). Now, getting a healthier breed can help in cases like this, but never eliminates the possibility of emergency veterinary care. This is definitely a talk to have with the spouse, if you're already not quite on the same page now.
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Every dollar you spend on a dog is a dollar not working for you, which means more time to retirement.
That's true, but if you can fit the dog expense into a budget where you still save 75% of what you earn, then why not?
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I deliberated a loooong time before getting my dog ten years ago, but when you just can't stop thinking about something for months and months, you should probably just go ahead and do it. I had dogs growing up, so I knew what I was getting into (one reason for the hesitation), but pets can be so life enriching--I don't regret it at all. If you just keep coming back to this question of whether to get a dog, just go ahead and do it! It means you really want to and maybe need to on some level.
I had to stop reading just to second and third this.
I've always had dogs, so this wasn't my experience - I always just knew I'd have a dog, and after my SO and I moved in together, we did get one. But google this blog piece called Barnheart (I'm a victim of that). I'm pretty sure you can have Dogheart. :)
As for tips. We adopted actually *before* moving in together. The woman at the shelter was actually glad she could keep this puppy for a bit longer and spread out the withdrawal of them from the mommy. He was my SO's first dog, and we got him as a 55 day old puppy (totally mixed mutt, the bitch gave birth at the shelter so he never got a bad experience of abuse or anything). We chose him out of 10 siblings. I was looking for a female, large breed (mother was, and the puppies had huge paws), calm disposition. My SO fell in love with this one, male, largest of the litter, really calm, but pushy. He would kick his siblings out of his mother's teats, and would sleep after when everyone played. He wasn't aggressive with pushing, and it turned into a sort of lazy stubborness as a young adult (he's 2.5yo now). He is calm and pushy to this day. Still steps on my feet and bumps into me, but we did train him so it wouldn't be too much. We did take about 3 months of training classes, of me and my hubby together. He kind of wanted to leave it all to me and I didn't let him, which was great, because he turned out better at some stuff I'm not (plus also had a blast). That said, the puppy does chew and gets bored often up to 2 years old. Hubby now says he doesn't care to have another puppy, he likes the grown dog best. I love developing puppies so we'll see about the next dog... the one we get when our little human is a bit older.
I also agree with all the tips about going to shelters once a week for maybe a month to walk/play with the dogs there. This way you get a bit more experience about reading dog personalities and finding out what kind of dog you get along with (plus you get to have a great time! even better if you can convince your wife to join - her not being on board is also a bit worrying, unless you're a different kind of guy and doesn't end up leaving things on her hands out of habit).
Edit: Now that I've read through the wife's reasons and more discussion (I'm so sorry the closest rescue will take months to be able to get new volunteers!), I think you pretty much have an action plan... I'll just add: do for those two dogs at your in-laws whatever you can. I live 1.5h from my parents but every time I go visit I try to give extra attention and a bit of training to their dogs. I also walk them when I have the time. I even took their old lab/golden mix to class with my puppy when we got him in 2012. My mom's dog was already old (9yo) but loved the classes. It also helped to teach the puppy his name, and how not to obey just any command said on his vicinity. :)
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I wouldn't count on swapping boarding. My pup loves other dogs on the street, but if she realizes they live in our apartment building, instantly hates them. She's very territorial despite being otherwise friendly. I can't imagine what would happen if we tried to bring another dog in. I think she only accepted our new dog because we had just moved to our apartment & she didn't feel as possessive. I think it's a great idea, but don't bet the budget on that one!
Yeah, it'd be smart to do a trial run -- like a practice overnight -- first and be SURE that the two dogs will get along. And it's possible that your boarding-buddy could move away or decide to sever your dog-swapping deal. But it's definitely worth a shot. What are your guys' take on adopting via a rescue vs a shelter?
No difference. The two work hand-in-hand.
People who surrender dogs tend to take them to a shelter, and the rescue people work with the shelter. The rescue people advertise more and work harder to make people aware of the dogs. When we found our pup last summer, we became aware of him through a rescue online . . . and we went to the shelter to see him. Consider adopting an adult dog, you'll already know their personality. Go walk dogs for a few weeks at a shelter first too
My retired neighbor has decided he doesn't want the commitment of a dog any more . . . but he walks dogs at the shelter as a way to get his "dog fix". I think this'd be a great way for a potential dog owner to get the feel for how different breeds behave. While dogs do have individual personalities, the breed makes a huge difference; for example, we have a beagle -- and last weekend I saw someone else's beagle, and I was surprised that she plays EXACTLY the same way our pup does.
I would recommend that you not focus so much on breed as on temper. Small dogs are often more difficult on a number of levels. As a pp mentioned, often they aren't well trained because people think they are too small to be much of a threat. They also have a much higher incidence of housebreaking issues than larger dogs.
I would also recommend an adult dog over a puppy. Puppies are a whole hell of a lot of work. I've had both and I'd never do a puppy again. If you volunteer with a shelter or a foster, you would be able to get to know a bunch of dogs, and as an added benefit you'll have an inside advantage when the perfect dog arrives.
The thing about small dogs is that people begin to accept bad behavior when they're puppies: Oh, look at him jumping on grandma and playing rough with the kids! You wouldn't allow a big German Shepherd to jump on grandma -- why would you allow that behavior in a poodle? Yet people often DO allow their small dogs to misbehave, and by the time they become sick of that behavior . . . it's already engrained in the animal! Start out right. Take obedience classes. Be consistant.
I've always preferred adopting a young dog so I can train it in my own way -- and not have to UNdo any negative training -- but I do understand why some people want to get an older, calmer dog.
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Just a couple comments (wife is head of a rescue for bully breeds):
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Hey! I do rescue for English bulldogs and have done some Frenchie rescue as well (I took in 6 French bulldogs in one day. That's a long story!)
If your wife is doing pitbull rescue, that's god's work. bless her. That world is tough.
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Please, please get a rescue - they're wonderful dogs in need of homes. Watch the Dog Whisperer (episodes are free online - great info on how to walk your dog, set boundaries, intorduce a dog to its new home, etc.) Be sure to research dog breeds. Consider fostering a dog - that way you can see how it goes for you and your wife. At minimum, volunteer for a few months as a shelter dog walker so you have a chance to meet different breeds, personalities. Also, if the shelter gets to know you they'll get a sense of what dog might be a good match for you. Good luck!
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I just wanted to say 'thanks' to the people in this thread recommending retired greyhounds. They completely had not been on my radar at all as family pets, but since looking into them, I think we've found our future dog!
We're about a year away from adopting one, given that we'll have a new baby in the house in the new year and the backyard is completely unfenced, and the usual pace at which we tackle such home improvements, but it sure is nice to know what the plan is :)
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I just wanted to say 'thanks' to the people in this thread recommending retired greyhounds. They completely had not been on my radar at all as family pets, but since looking into them, I think we've found our future dog!
We're about a year away from adopting one, given that we'll have a new baby in the house in the new year and the backyard is completely unfenced, and the usual pace at which we tackle such home improvements, but it sure is nice to know what the plan is :)
Oh! That makes me so happy! They are such wonderful pets and just gentle, loving creatures in general. Plus, they are so in need of good homes. We love our grey!
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I just wanted to say 'thanks' to the people in this thread recommending retired greyhounds. They completely had not been on my radar at all as family pets, but since looking into them, I think we've found our future dog!
We're about a year away from adopting one, given that we'll have a new baby in the house in the new year and the backyard is completely unfenced, and the usual pace at which we tackle such home improvements, but it sure is nice to know what the plan is :)
Oh! That makes me so happy! They are such wonderful pets and just gentle, loving creatures in general. Plus, they are so in need of good homes. We love our grey!
What's your take on Italian Greys? Those have always been appealing to me since my aunt and uncle in TX adopted a couple over the past decades.
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I just wanted to say 'thanks' to the people in this thread recommending retired greyhounds. They completely had not been on my radar at all as family pets, but since looking into them, I think we've found our future dog!
We're about a year away from adopting one, given that we'll have a new baby in the house in the new year and the backyard is completely unfenced, and the usual pace at which we tackle such home improvements, but it sure is nice to know what the plan is :)
Oh! That makes me so happy! They are such wonderful pets and just gentle, loving creatures in general. Plus, they are so in need of good homes. We love our grey!
What's your take on Italian Greys? Those have always been appealing to me since my aunt and uncle in TX adopted a couple over the past decades.
That's a great question--I actually don't know much about them. We have a retired racing greyhound and I'm not familiar with Italian Greys. I believe Italian Greys need to be purchased from a breeder and I honestly don't know much about their temperament. It is my understanding that they're a very different dog than the full-size greyhounds. Hopefully someone else here knows more about them!
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I just wanted to say 'thanks' to the people in this thread recommending retired greyhounds. They completely had not been on my radar at all as family pets, but since looking into them, I think we've found our future dog!
We're about a year away from adopting one, given that we'll have a new baby in the house in the new year and the backyard is completely unfenced, and the usual pace at which we tackle such home improvements, but it sure is nice to know what the plan is :)
Oh! That makes me so happy! They are such wonderful pets and just gentle, loving creatures in general. Plus, they are so in need of good homes. We love our grey!
What's your take on Italian Greys? Those have always been appealing to me since my aunt and uncle in TX adopted a couple over the past decades.
That's a great question--I actually don't know much about them. We have a retired racing greyhound and I'm not familiar with Italian Greys. I believe Italian Greys need to be purchased from a breeder and I honestly don't know much about their temperament. It is my understanding that they're a very different dog than the full-size greyhounds. Hopefully someone else here knows more about them!
I suppose I could always ask my uncle, since he's adopted twice now haha. I *think* he mentioned he adopted them from an Italian Grey rescue though, and that Joe, the first one (who passed) was actually a retired race dog. I thought they mentioned something about his legs too - either they were slightly injured or maybe it was just that they were more prone to injury since the legs are brittle. My wife really dislikes the "skin and bone" look of greyhounds lol but I think they're awesome dogs. I'd just be scared to have one bolt as soon as I open the door. For this reason, my uncle had shock collars on his Italian Greys *just* in case.
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Just a couple comments (wife is head of a rescue for bully breeds):
...
Hey! I do rescue for English bulldogs and have done some Frenchie rescue as well (I took in 6 French bulldogs in one day. That's a long story!)
If your wife is doing pitbull rescue, that's god's work. bless her. That world is tough.
That's awesome, I can only imagine the story behind that. As far as your comment, I agree. I admit I stay on the fringes (I provide the money and the tissues for her breakdowns) but it's been very revealing how people operate, their perceptions, and oh yeah, something about the dogs too.