Author Topic: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise  (Read 8621 times)

dsmexpat

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First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« on: April 03, 2015, 01:28:25 PM »
I am a British citizen who, through a long strong of unlikely events, have found myself married to an American and living in New Mexico. I gained my right to work last year but had absolutely no luck finding a job in New Mexico, literally nobody would hire me, not Walmart, not McDonalds, nobody. I suspect a combination of factors such as a lack of US work history and references, a lack of credit and an increasing length of unemployment (it took around 6 months just to get the right to work in the US) caused this. In January I was able to finally find work doing general admin and at the time I made no mention of salary requirements because I just wanted a job, any job, I felt I had absolutely no negotiating power.

The job was a 13 week temp to hire position and I have been repeatedly assured by my boss and their boss, both of whom I work with fairly closely, that I am absolutely amazing and they fully intend to keep me. In about two weeks we'll be meeting to discuss the job offer. It is at this time that I want to suggest they up my salary.

I worked through university in the United Kingdom, graduated with a good degree from a good university, worked for a year after graduating and then came to the US in early 2014. My job did not previously require a degree, experience in the field (which I had from the UK) and any IT computer skills (which I have) and the pay was based around the minimal requirements of the job. Since I've been here I have been aggressively expanding the responsibilities of the job using my IT skills to replace and update antiquated systems, both within my department and as favours to other departments on the behalf of the CEO. I've learned the job very quickly at a time of great transition for our business and become so efficient at it that I've been able to take about 30 hours a week of workload off of the rest of my team, both due to better practices and greater computer literacy. My department is billing twice what it was last year and rather than admin being a bottleneck we're leading the charge.

I think the pay they offered me when they hired me was fine as a speculative move on their part. At the time I was an unknown, a foreigner with no US work history or references who just interviewed well for the job. I don't especially resent them for it, they gave me a job when nobody else would and I am very grateful for that, giving them 3 months of underpaid work isn't a huge price to pay for that. However now I'm looking at staying here for a few years I want to make the case that they bump my salary to at least 150% of the current amount which is still lower than my experience ought to demand but is also probably more than the previous occupant of my position (who absolutely sucked) made. I feel I can make a case for it based upon my demonstrated commitment to the job, the amount of use they're getting out of a skillset they are not currently compensating me for, the increased workload of my job now vs the job they initially hired me for and how well our department is billing vs how well it was before. I'm fine with the low hiring pay as a speculative rate but I feel I now represent proven value and can justify a higher rate. However equally I'm three months in, I owe them and I'm asking for a huge bump.

Any advice regarding salary negotiations would be appreciated. I'm on good terms with my boss, great terms with his boss and the team adore me but I also don't have much in the way of other options.

Gone Fishing

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2015, 01:42:44 PM »
Sounds like you will do fine!

I would say what you just said, and ask for the raise.  They may offer some now and more at the 12-18-24 month mark.  3 months on the job is a little early to play hardball IMO, but if you get 18-24 months of experience under your belt, you can probably get some other job offers to either take or support additional requests for raises.  Good luck! 

 

pbkmaine

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2015, 01:46:00 PM »
What about asking for something like a 20% increase now, to be reviewed in six months? Three months is not a long time to prove yourself.


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jda1984

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2015, 01:50:20 PM »
Is it temp to hire directly for the end user/company?  If not, the middle man (recruiting agency/headhunter/etc) is probably taking a pretty big cut.  I could see a direct offer being at least 20% above what you currently gross if there's a middle man involved with no additional outlay by the company.

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2015, 01:56:34 PM »
Much depends on the size of the company - more to the point, how much bureaucracy exists.  Which of the situations below is closer to yours?

If it is a small company with little to no formal HR department then your negotiations will be pretty much between you, your boss and maybe the boss's boss.  You will be more or less making things up as you go along.

If it is a larger company with a formal HR department then it becomes very important to define exactly what role you would be hired into.  Specific roles come with specific pay ranges and your boss will have little room for negotiation within that role.  Your biggest leverage will be getting your role defined as one of the higher paying ones.


Doulos

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2015, 01:57:11 PM »
Forget what you want.  Do not even consider it.  Look at what they want.

I would ask questions.
How much money are you making them?
- being the admin, you might be able to produce that document yourself.
How much overhead cost are you?
- ie, your salary is not your cost.  You have officespace, the internet, a computer, utilities, benefits, etc.

Look at yourself as an investment.
Look at yourself as a profit center for that company.

Put together a presentation for them to explain
- How much you are making them in the short term.
- How much cost saving your IT changes are providing the company.
- Estimate how much additional changes you can implement if allowed to continue throughout the company as a whole.

Then once you figure out your worth to the company, turn that around and figure out how much salary that justifies.
If you are as awesome as they say you are, you might be able to justify a much higher salary than you are even looking for right now.

dsmexpat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 02:01:05 PM »
My fixation on the three month mark is that at present I'm not technically employed by the company I work for as they source all their hiring through a third party who have a three month minimum contract before they let the company I'm placed with buy me out. I approached the company that I work for directly, interviewed with them and then they sent me to the temp agency who typically just provide temporary office staff asking them to screen me, employ me and then place me as a temp with the company I work for. It's as convoluted as it sounds but hopefully it makes sense.

What this means is that I am starting over with regards to employment, they're looking to employ me directly, and I now represent a proven value. I feel like I won't ever get a better opportunity than this to establish a base number and if all future raises are a proportion of whatever number I get this time then a lower number now will be a ridiculously lower number in 5 years time.


On an unrelated note, nobody at the company knows how to do the job I was employed to do, let alone the job I actually do. The previous occupant left without notes and took all her knowledge with her. I had to rebuild the job from scratch, which is why it's all being done so much better now, but I am somewhat irreplaceable. I have no intention of walking away in the short term, I like it here, I like the people and I owe them, but they would be absolutely lost without me. All the processes, all the spreadsheets, hell, all the payroll calculations (the team work on commission and I automated the calculations) are implemented and looked after by me. I'm negotiating, in the words of the late Sir Terry Pratchett, without an axe in my hand, but the axe I'm not holding is very big and very sharp.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 02:31:07 PM »
Likely they owe the agency a commission on your starting salary. So they might be more receptive to giving you a big boost a month in depending on contract language. No reason to be cagey about this, you can just say you feel you're worth well more than your current pay, and is there a way you and them can meet somewhere within the next six months.

REAL WORLD EXPAT

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 02:31:49 PM »
I am a British citizen who, through a long strong of unlikely events, have found myself married to an American and living in New Mexico. I gained my right to work last year but had absolutely no luck finding a job in New Mexico, literally nobody would hire me, not Walmart, not McDonalds, nobody. I suspect a combination of factors such as a lack of US work history and references, a lack of credit and an increasing length of unemployment (it took around 6 months just to get the right to work in the US) caused this. In January I was able to finally find work doing general admin and at the time I made no mention of salary requirements because I just wanted a job, any job, I felt I had absolutely no negotiating power.

The job was a 13 week temp to hire position and I have been repeatedly assured by my boss and their boss, both of whom I work with fairly closely, that I am absolutely amazing and they fully intend to keep me. In about two weeks we'll be meeting to discuss the job offer. It is at this time that I want to suggest they up my salary.

I worked through university in the United Kingdom, graduated with a good degree from a good university, worked for a year after graduating and then came to the US in early 2014. My job did not previously require a degree, experience in the field (which I had from the UK) and any IT computer skills (which I have) and the pay was based around the minimal requirements of the job. Since I've been here I have been aggressively expanding the responsibilities of the job using my IT skills to replace and update antiquated systems, both within my department and as favours to other departments on the behalf of the CEO. I've learned the job very quickly at a time of great transition for our business and become so efficient at it that I've been able to take about 30 hours a week of workload off of the rest of my team, both due to better practices and greater computer literacy. My department is billing twice what it was last year and rather than admin being a bottleneck we're leading the charge.

I think the pay they offered me when they hired me was fine as a speculative move on their part. At the time I was an unknown, a foreigner with no US work history or references who just interviewed well for the job. I don't especially resent them for it, they gave me a job when nobody else would and I am very grateful for that, giving them 3 months of underpaid work isn't a huge price to pay for that. However now I'm looking at staying here for a few years I want to make the case that they bump my salary to at least 150% of the current amount which is still lower than my experience ought to demand but is also probably more than the previous occupant of my position (who absolutely sucked) made. I feel I can make a case for it based upon my demonstrated commitment to the job, the amount of use they're getting out of a skillset they are not currently compensating me for, the increased workload of my job now vs the job they initially hired me for and how well our department is billing vs how well it was before. I'm fine with the low hiring pay as a speculative rate but I feel I now represent proven value and can justify a higher rate. However equally I'm three months in, I owe them and I'm asking for a huge bump.

Any advice regarding salary negotiations would be appreciated. I'm on good terms with my boss, great terms with his boss and the team adore me but I also don't have much in the way of other options.

This was basically me 12 years ago. From the UK, graduate, got married to an Ohio lass and moved over here. Once I got my paperwork to work legally (they lost it for some time so that took forever but not really relevant to the questions you asked) I could not for the life of me find anyone to hire me for a proper job, I found temp work for minimum wage (that really was hard to do and I nearly packed my shit and went home a couple of times) until I finally got an engineering job with a company who's chief engineer happened to be Italian (a real one!). All was going well there and they got bought out and I was offered a job in Chicago. For me it was a lot easier to get better jobs in Chicago than Ohio, larger immigrant population (so HR is familiar with hiring laws) and more industry (which is what I work in). Long story short I am now a director in a manufacturing company and doing well but I feel your pain having been there.

My advice having been in your position and as someone who makes wages increase decision is do some research. What is the market paying in your area? List your achievements, write them down and be ready to negotiate. If they are not willing to go right to 50% how about 25% now and a review in 6 months with some clear goals you need to achieve by then.

Good luck and location is everything I think when your an immigrant looking for work in the US when you first start out. Reading your post bought back some memories for me, but I'm glad I stuck it out as there is no way I'd be able to FIRE at 46 if I'd gone back to the UK.

Let us know how you for on, at the end of the day talent is hard to find so if your are good and as valuable as you think you are you should be fine.

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 02:34:25 PM »
Sounds like you've done a good job for them and now they want to hire you

At this point, however, I suspect you are more replaceable than you think.  Obviously negotiate, buy you need the work experience at least as much if not more than they need you.  I hope they take care of you, but I'd use the job to build my resume and negotiate (or leave) once you've done that.

Good luck.

MW

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 02:45:44 PM »
Never come to the table unless you're willing to walk away.

Where you may have some room to negotiate is in the margin your temp agency is making. For example, you might be making $10/hour, but your agency is charging the company $40/h. If this were the case, your company would be ecstatic to give you $15/h and cut out the middle man. Be frank with your employer about what you're actually being paid, and you might be able to negotiate a nice raise.

In most cases, you're much better off finding another job when you want a raise. It is fairly typical in the US to offer raises in the 2-3% range (ie, at or around inflation levels). So it's important to negotiate your starting salary as high as possible. Good luck!


dsmexpat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 02:51:33 PM »
Sounds like you've done a good job for them and now they want to hire you

At this point, however, I suspect you are more replaceable than you think.  Obviously negotiate, buy you need the work experience at least as much if not more than they need you.  I hope they take care of you, but I'd use the job to build my resume and negotiate (or leave) once you've done that.

Good luck.

MW
I absolutely need them at least as much as they need me. That's part of my problem. If I'm valued according to what I could get elsewhere then any amount is a good deal for me to take because nobody else would give me a chance. On the other hand if I'm valued according to what it would cost to replace me with someone like me then I'm very underpaid.

It's compounded somewhat by the difference between the job I was hired to do and the job I actually do which is pretty wide at this point. I was pretty much just meant to be doing data entry and answering the phone but I was so bored with the lack of work that I redesigned our antiquated payroll system in the first week and pitched it to my boss who gave me permission to implement it immediately. Since then things have scaled somewhat. The question is the degree to which they're happy to replace me with someone who just answers the phones and does a little data entry if it means that's all they have to pay for.

REAL WORLD EXPAT

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 03:30:20 PM »
So it's important to negotiate your starting salary as high as possible. Good luck!

Totally agree and in my opinion you have a better chance of earning more money in your career if you move every 5 years or so. I've negotiated anywhere between 20% and 50% increases when I've moved to a new company and I would never have got that if I had stayed where I was. That being said I'm set where I am now until I FIRE.

mxt0133

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2015, 03:42:53 PM »
Definitely ask for what you think you are worth and then back it up.  If you don't get what you want, continue to do a kick ass job as best as you can stomach, because you are building your resume and getting paid at the same time.  Then job hunt as aggressively as possible and get your market rate.

Josiecat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2015, 07:58:40 PM »
Use www.glassdoor.com to research salaries in your area and determine what is an appropriate compensation level.

mozar

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2015, 08:44:58 PM »
How about taking some computer science classes and getting a career related job? I think you are overblowing how much you owe the company. I was born in the USA and my first job was temping. You probably couldn't get a job at McDonalds because they could tell you are overqualified.

dsmexpat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2015, 01:29:55 PM »
Meeting did not take place as such. They prepared an offer of exactly what I'm paid right now and I dismissed it out of hand. HR are now meeting with my boss and my bosses boss to discuss my terms. I went with a 57% requested increased with room to negotiate down if they come back.

dsmexpat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2015, 08:08:28 PM »
We're gonna try again from scratch where this time we actually have the meeting where we discuss salary expectations, evaluation criteria, incentives and all that bullshit before they write up a job offer and throw it at me. For some reason the boss thought that he was allowed to negotiate for both sides and then I would just sign it. He's a bit pissed that his plans went awry, not because he planned to take advantage of me but just because he gets mad whenever anyone does anything not in his plan, but he'll get over it. I'm hoping with a night's sleep he'll realize that he hijacked my meeting to discuss all the issues that derailed today.

RexualChocolate

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2015, 08:33:54 PM »
I'd take less of a hard nosed approach. You have 3 months of experience, if they cut you youre back at square one as no ones going to think very favorably of all that unemployment and then a break afterwards.

I'd see what they come to the table with and probably take it, and then start interviewing elsewhere if its not what you think you can get. Your original salary is a massive anchor at any company that they will not shake unless you're a superstar (you are not, no one is).

Your best bet is soft negotiating now, then hard negotiating when you have an offer elsewhere. Its like a car dealership, if you aren't willing to walk, they have all the power.

The middle man cut is typically equal to benefits/additional costs and taxes from a full time employee(IE, costs to company are the same), so that's not a great argument for more money.

dsmexpat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2015, 08:39:26 PM »
At present I'm just continuing the status quo as a temp indefinitely. Rejecting the offer didn't terminate my position, it simply meant that I wasn't willing to make the jump from a temp being placed with them to one of their employees for the offer they made. I'm no worse off tonight than I was this morning, I'm still working the same job for the same pay as I was. I'm gonna start looking elsewhere for work now though if they're not prepared to offer enough to keep me long term.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 08:41:44 PM by dsmexpat »

zurich78

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2015, 08:41:32 AM »
No one is going to give you a 50% raise unless you were initially severely underpaid relative to the going market rate for your position.

Unless you're talking about including benefits then I could see that.  Paid Time Off, Benefits, 401K (and any matching), Bonuses -- are all of those things being included in your 50% ask?

Or, are you asking for all of those things PLUS a 50% increase in your base salary compensation. 

If it's the latter, frankly, I find it a bit laughable to ask for nearly a 100% increase in total compensation.  If it's the former, well, that might be fair.

Plus, one typically makes more money from a base salary perspective as a non-employee and so usually you're pretty lucky if you can get the same amount of money plus all the bennies.

BlueHouse

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2015, 09:09:29 AM »
I have no doubt that you are worth more than a temp's salary, however, I doubt everyone at your new employer sees it that way.  If they were willing to go through a temporary agency to find labor, then my guess is that they didn't value the work itself very highly and they assume anyone can get the job done.  Now the fact that you can get it done more elegantly and faster may change their minds, but I wouldn't count on it too much.

Don't make the mistake of thinking you're irreplaceable.  No one is. 

I'm in a [somewhat] similar situation in that many people I work with do not place high value on the work that I do because I use arithmetic and they use advanced mathematics.  The prevailing attitude is that anyone can add, so they want to hire the cheapest possible labor to do it.  Fortunately for me, there are a lot of regulatory requirements that must be understood and there is a lot of analysis that comes only with experience.  Otherwise, regardless of how much they love my work, they'd get rid of me in a second and replace me with a spreadsheet if they could. 

Definitely work more on defining the role that you want to fill, rather than asking for a raise for the position they hired for.  In my opinion, that's the way to gain large salary increases (and also job hop after 18-24 months). 

CommonCents

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2015, 09:15:30 AM »
At present I'm just continuing the status quo as a temp indefinitely. Rejecting the offer didn't terminate my position, it simply meant that I wasn't willing to make the jump from a temp being placed with them to one of their employees for the offer they made. I'm no worse off tonight than I was this morning, I'm still working the same job for the same pay as I was. I'm gonna start looking elsewhere for work now though if they're not prepared to offer enough to keep me long term.

You may be worse off if they decide to terminate your temp position due to asking for what they likely saw as an unreasonable sum.

It's great you're doing more than you were initially asked to do but:
1) You figured out the prior system, someone can likely figure out yours and thus you are replaceable.
2) They need the data entry/phones.  Everything else is gravy.  And they might not have gravy in the budget.  Or if they do, they might want to hire someone with different experience for that job.  Just because you are doing more doesn't mean they'll see it as worthwhile to pay for the more if it wasn't what they were initially seeking.
3) They likely have to pay a portion of your initial salary to the temp company (e.g. a month or two) for finding you.  A higher starting salary likely costs them a lot more than a lower one with later bumps.
4) Anyone might be shocked and mad that you asked for such a substantial amount and see you as being unreasonable - and thus not worth trying to keep around.  Sometimes gradual increases are better so the crab doesn't hop out of the pot before being boiled.  If a landlord raised my rent substantially I'd walk, but if they did so gradually each time, I'd likely stay.
5) You forget you need them.  You might still have a hard time being hired like you did before with only a short low paid temp gig to add to your resume.

Cpa Cat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2015, 09:41:54 AM »
It sounds like you're already looking for a new job, which is good. Because the offer they made is a bit insulting.

They just put an offer on the table that said, "You are worth to us exactly what you were worth when you were some anonymous temp that we knew nothing about."

Actually, you're worth even less than that, since they're saving the middle-man commission now. They -could- have offered you the salary+commission price and made it look like a raise at no cost to themselves, but they chose not to.

Good luck!

dsmexpat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2015, 10:12:11 AM »
That's my view. Applying to jobs on their time now. They've agreed to be flexible if I need time to go to interviews and I, in turn, have agreed to come in on Saturday's at time and a half to fix whatever the replacement fucks up when they have one lined up. I've made the job sufficiently complicated that he'll either need to rebuild it from scratch or need a number of lessons and that is fine by me.

I asked for what they're currently paying the temp agency for me at the moment with room to negotiate down but their view was that all they ever wanted was the job done badly and they see no reason to pay for it to be done well. My requested increase could be justified a dozen different ways (I'm currently shouldering so much of the workload of other team members (having me do all their paperwork for them is currently used as an incentive by our manager) that the time I save them, if multiplied by their hourly rate, would more than cover what I asked for) but if their hands really are tied then I was on the way out anyway.


dsmexpat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2015, 10:47:46 AM »
At present I'm just continuing the status quo as a temp indefinitely. Rejecting the offer didn't terminate my position, it simply meant that I wasn't willing to make the jump from a temp being placed with them to one of their employees for the offer they made. I'm no worse off tonight than I was this morning, I'm still working the same job for the same pay as I was. I'm gonna start looking elsewhere for work now though if they're not prepared to offer enough to keep me long term.

You may be worse off if they decide to terminate your temp position due to asking for what they likely saw as an unreasonable sum.

It's great you're doing more than you were initially asked to do but:
1) You figured out the prior system, someone can likely figure out yours and thus you are replaceable.
2) They need the data entry/phones.  Everything else is gravy.  And they might not have gravy in the budget.  Or if they do, they might want to hire someone with different experience for that job.  Just because you are doing more doesn't mean they'll see it as worthwhile to pay for the more if it wasn't what they were initially seeking.
3) They likely have to pay a portion of your initial salary to the temp company (e.g. a month or two) for finding you.  A higher starting salary likely costs them a lot more than a lower one with later bumps.
4) Anyone might be shocked and mad that you asked for such a substantial amount and see you as being unreasonable - and thus not worth trying to keep around.  Sometimes gradual increases are better so the crab doesn't hop out of the pot before being boiled.  If a landlord raised my rent substantially I'd walk, but if they did so gradually each time, I'd likely stay.
5) You forget you need them.  You might still have a hard time being hired like you did before with only a short low paid temp gig to add to your resume.
In response to 1) the previous system was built by someone computer illiterate to be largely paper based and non functional so that someone without any training could do it, if you didn't mind sometimes overpaying or underpaying the staff, many of whom have been here since before the invention of the PC. The system I built works but you do need to understand that excel is more than a word document with lines in it.
In response to 2) yeah, they tell me that while they love what I've done they really can't offer me anything more than about 60% of what they're currently paying a temp agency for me. And that's fine, what I want and what they can offer are incompatible, we're having a mutual breakup without hard feelings.
In response to 4) they tell me that if I'd asked for a fifty cent increase they still couldn't have given it, they're not angry, just sad.
In response to 5) I'm still on very good terms with them. My boss's boss cried. I feel I'm certainly in a much stronger position than I was three months ago, especially given that I'm applying while working. I'll post an update if it turns out I've made a horrible, horrible mistake.

partgypsy

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2015, 10:51:16 AM »
It is amazing how short-sighted some managers are. I had a job, where they were paying me I can't remember either 21 or 23K a year. My only official job responsibility was to coordinate a research study of theirs. However as it was my first job out of college and I was an eager beaver, I helped on a number of other research studies, helping them modernize the entry of old data that could be used for research that was previously only on paper records, helped in writing and layout of their newsletter, as well as assisting the secretary on paperwork (she didn't even know how to format a letter). I was told not to let the company know I was using my time for any of these things.

When the trial was going multi-site, I was flown to meet the larger team, and informed that they were paying each site x (twice what they were paying me) soley for our salary, and to let them know if we weren't receiving it.  Sure enough I go to talk to the manager regarding this - discrepancy, he puts me off 6 months for when they usually discuss salary terms. I wait patiently for the official review. He offers 5%. I bring up what the company told me, and basically suggests I'm lying or crazy,  take it or leave it. I guess I was so offended by the fact that not only were these people stealing from the company with my time (that I was working on things other than my assigned job to help them with their workloads) they were pocketing 10's of thousands of dollars of designated salary, and the intended recipient was supposed to be OK with it. I ended up resigning and it bit them in the butt (the company found out what had happened). Did it make sense for them to alienate me? For them it did. They were the head and manager of that (small) company and they saw me as a young replaceable person so they acted based on that. I also believe that no one is irreplaceable. In both this situation, and in another situation where I lost my job, I heard through the grapevine how certain things fell apart (2nd incidence I heard they lost the grant). But it didn't cause the company to go under or anything.   

RexualChocolate

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2015, 01:10:02 PM »
In response to 5) I'm still on very good terms with them. My boss's boss cried. I feel I'm certainly in a much stronger position than I was three months ago, especially given that I'm applying while working. I'll post an update if it turns out I've made a horrible, horrible mistake.

I've never worked in a place so poorly run that anyone 2 levels up from the bottom would ever cry over something as benign as employment negotiations.

You seem like you believe you know what you're doing and you're in an office run by children, so I don't really know why you're asking for advice.

dsmexpat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2015, 01:45:08 PM »
In response to 5) I'm still on very good terms with them. My boss's boss cried. I feel I'm certainly in a much stronger position than I was three months ago, especially given that I'm applying while working. I'll post an update if it turns out I've made a horrible, horrible mistake.

I've never worked in a place so poorly run that anyone 2 levels up from the bottom would ever cry over something as benign as employment negotiations.
It's because we won't be able to hang out anymore. I will actually miss working here.

dsmexpat

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2015, 09:24:53 AM »
New problem, too many job interviews. There are four jobs that I applied to which if any of them offered me the position I'd do it for half my current pay but I've not yet heard back from any of those four (I will be following up). There are three jobs which I've been invited to interview for already which I don't really want, although I'd certainly do if I was told not to come in tomorrow here. All three of them have better advancement prospects than my current job but are a little outside my comfort zone because my current job really is a cushy relax and wait for death desk job. I'm torn between accepting the first job that gives me an offer and waiting for something ideal.

Exflyboy

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2015, 12:36:24 PM »
Fellow EX pat from the UK here.

First off I know this is tough, but there is far more money available here so eventually when you become established will be able to FIRE much earlier.

For now though, I would estimate you have very little bargaining power with just 3 months work experience. So while asking for a raise might be a valid request I certainly would not try to play hardball. Outsourcing agencies likely have a number of people that can call on and if they suspect your unhappy could simply fire you in a heartbeat.

In six months I'd be asking for more, then again at 12 months.

Typically you'll want 2 years service before you have something you can bargain with.

Certainly apply for different jobs.. As an engineering manager for a fortune 500 company I can tell you that new graduates easily end up being paid more (sometimes 20% more) than the employees that have been there for 4 years.

Reason being is the market for engineering graduates goes up by 5 to 10% each year, but the folks that are already there get 1% per year "merit" raise.

Its not fair but I saw it over and over.

So a good rule of thumb is 2 years max in each role then apply for another job, even if you have no intention of taking it, you can go back to your current employer and with offer in hand play hardball.

Good luck!

Mother Fussbudget

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Re: First job, want to ask for a 50+% pay increase, pls advise
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2015, 12:52:19 PM »
In general, someone going from contract to FTE (Full Time Employee) will make less than what they're contracted at - not more.  Knowing your 'bill rate' is good, and using THAT as a bargaining chip is a way you *could* actually be paid more in the contract-to-hire conversion, but the company you work for would have to agree that you're ridiculously underpaid for the work you're doing.  Convincing them is best done with RESULTS, not a PowerPoint presentation.

IMHO, your best bet would be to ask your recruiting firm if they have another contract job that meets with your current experience at your current company, but pays more $$.  In general, job / company switching is the best way to get an increase - the people that know you aren't usually the ones who will pay you more because they've gotten accustomed to getting your services for less.