On respecting family members who deserve non-stop facepunches

[RootofGood]

You can always mention gentle suggestions to tighten up the finances.  The cell expense might be a good one to start with. 

And long term, you better hide your assets and any wealth you accumulate since it sounds like everyone else in your family might want some of your lucky money that you totally lucked into and didn't have to work hard to accumulate.  Maybe hit them up for a loan every once in a while to reiterate how destitute you are.  :)

[Adventine]

Yes I'm sorry Nikki but the only way not to get hurt is to not play the game.

You know, you just said what I said . . . but you said it better, and in only one sentence.

Yeah, that's a really good way to sum it up. It's just so hard to put into practice...

[willn]

But now I'm thinking that all of these planned gifts might be inappropriate because I'm probably better off distancing myself from their financial irresponsibility altogether. Giving a gift like that is my way of showing that I care about their financial well-being, but I can already guess that the gifts will go unused and unread. It's probably better to just not even go there and not give them gifts at all.

Sigh.

I think that's the mature and best decision. I chose wrongly many years ago; I tried to do something similar with a family member and to them, it came across as presumptuous and not in the spirit of thinking "what they would want to be given as a gift".

I'd like to think that you could become a leader for them by example, which is hard when you are younger and far away.  Maybe you can influence younger family members by talking about goals you've reached by saving.  "You can do it too". 

Sometimes people need a dream to save for.  When they've exercised the savings muscle and see it isn't that hard to do, they can replace the original goal of "visit my cousin in Korea" or "pay cash for a new truck" with "save more for retirement or a house".

[Lentils5eva]

I think that's the mature and best decision. I chose wrongly many years ago; I tried to do something similar with a family member and to them, it came across as presumptuous and not in the spirit of thinking "what they would want to be given as a gift".

I'd like to think that you could become a leader for them by example, which is hard when you are younger and far away.  Maybe you can influence younger family members by talking about goals you've reached by saving.  "You can do it too". 

Sometimes people need a dream to save for.  When they've exercised the savings muscle and see it isn't that hard to do, they can replace the original goal of "visit my cousin in Korea" or "pay cash for a new truck" with "save more for retirement or a house".

Yes!  This is great advice.  Having had a rather nasty relative who used to buy things too small when I was a kid so that could work to be "slimmer" (I was 10), gifts that imply someone needs help with something as personal as money are often not particularly kind, even if you think your own intentions are nothing but good.  As much as I often want to help family members who I see make terrible financial decisions, I try to remember how it felt to be told, in gift form, that a person who was supposed to love me was taking a gift and turning it into a way to tell me she found me lacking.  I agree with Willn and applaud you for your restraint.  I'm sure it's hard.

[nikki]

 Having had a rather nasty relative who used to buy things too small when I was a kid so that could work to be "slimmer" (I was 10), gifts that imply someone needs help with something as personal as money are often not particularly kind, even if you think your own intentions are nothing but good. 

Wow... just wow. That's pretty hurtful. I hadn't thought about the cute cash books are being potentially hurtful, but it certainly could come across that way. I'm not nearly as sensitive as the rest of my family.

If any family members or anyone ever hits you up for money, you should probably have a loan limit over a set period of time. Whether it's $1,000 or $10,000. And loan can mean "gift", money you are not too uncomfortable parting with, and you have no high expectation of it being returned.

So when you max out that limit and you get hit up again, "Sorry, I've already loaned out this much money" "I won't have anymore to loan out until I get some of it back" "I need to save" etc.

Pretty sure my response would just be "no." ;-)

[Exflyboy]

Pretty sure my response would just be "no." ;-)


Waahahahah... My thought exactly!...:)

I have an "interesting Mother in Law".. similar thing. This woman was an absolute bear, pushy, lazy, demanding terrible with money (lost two houses during my Wife growing up) and had to keep up with the Joneses.

Anyway one evening my lovely wife (who learned to be a doormat growing up under this piece of work)  is on the phone with her...

"Oh really Mon.. The car put a rod thru the block?, how terrible".. I pass a note to Wife saying "she has her greedy hand out!".. Wifey is shaking her head like she doesn't believe me.

Sure enough the conversation goes "well you have plenty of money and we don't (cus you freaking spent it!) ... blah blah"

I pass another note "ask her if she ever checked the oil?"

So Mom you checked the oil I assume?... "Oh no the dealer does all that"... Well there is your answer!!!!... HELL NO!

When she looks after her stuff then she can ask .. said the 3rd note (answer would still be no of course).

But it gets better.. We live in Oregon, with no sales tax.

Two days after the call we get a letter addressed to HER at out address.. Which I mistakenly (cough) open.

"Dear Mrs xxxx Thankyou for your purchase of a blah blah, new car on credit... etc".. from a dealer in Colorado

So I call the dealer up and ask him what the F is going on (as if I didn't know).

"Oh she told us thats where she lived".. did she now?.. well guess what she doesn't (and never will).

"This doesn't look good" says the dealer.. It looks like SALES TAX FRAUD (using my house to do it) says I.. He decides to call her... Good idea.

of course I was the bad guy... "How could a loving Son in law do that to his Wife's mother"?

Of course what I didn't tell her was I turned her into the Oregon DMV as well.. I had no choice.... it could have cost me my house!

Needless to say boundaries have been re-drawn and my Wife no longer acts like a doormat..:)

Frank

[daverobev]

Two thoughts:

Thich Nnat Hanh said something along the lines of "if you think you're enlightened - try spending a weekend with your parents" - ie, everyone bickers with their family to some degree

And, I forget where on The Internet I read it, but something like:

"I used to have a house between two subdivisions, and people thought the edge of the yard was a path between one division and the other. They used to walk across it, and it bothered me. I sold the house - people are, I'm sure, still walking across that yard, but now it doesn't bother me at all" - meaning - there are plenty of (sub optimal?) things in the world - your family doing their utmost to trash the planet being one - and I know it's personal because they are *your* family - and if they were someone else's family you'd still care but just in the general mess of how we're all fucking up the place...

Sucks, but the best you can do is just be a positive role model. If you're perfect (you aren't! See Thich Nhat Hanh) you'll just be able to respond with a smile, and gentle advice when asked.

Good luck - hope it works out for you this time - my friends and family are thousands of miles away too and it makes me quite sad :-/ Thankfully, Skype and email!

[nikki]

Thich Nnat Hanh said something along the lines of "if you think you're enlightened - try spending a weekend with your parents" - ie, everyone bickers with their family to some degree

I love it. I've seen a lot of people posting this on Facebook: "Santa Claus has the right idea - visit people only once a year!"

Oh, family...

And @frank: I think you handled the MIL situation just as I would have. Delightfully harshly ;-D

[Melody]

I would just distance yourself from that stuff...
Pick some free/cheap activities you would all enjoy and lead by example. What things did you enjoy doing when you lived in Texas? For example you might say "I really miss going or walks by the river, we don't have places like that in Korea, I'd love for us to go together." They really aren't your problem any more, so just enjoy their company (in a way that doesn't compromise your own values) and leave their problems be. If they think they have a problem they will talk about it in their own time.
Good Luck!

[golfer44]

Also, the judging can go both ways. You are into personal finance, so you are judging them on how they do not prioritize that. There are probably aspects of your life that they may frown upon in a similar way.

I think this is a very, very important point and should be taken to heart.

It's easy to get caught up in one particular aspect of life and throw shade to anyone not on your wavelength, but remember, there's much more to life than financial discipline, weight loss, fashion, etc.

Everybody has "that friend" who decides to lose weight and is instantly a harsh critic of everyone around them for not aggressively dieting... don't be that friend...

[anastrophe]

Just wondering how your visit went? Are you back safely in SK?

[nikki]

Just wondering how your visit went? Are you back safely in SK?

I haven't gone yet! I leave in a couple weeks.

Still pumping myself up for it.

[babysteps]

I would just distance yourself from that stuff...
Pick some free/cheap activities you would all enjoy and lead by example. What things did you enjoy doing when you lived in Texas? For example you might say "I really miss going or walks by the river, we don't have places like that in Korea, I'd love for us to go together." They really aren't your problem any more, so just enjoy their company (in a way that doesn't compromise your own values) and leave their problems be. If they think they have a problem they will talk about it in their own time.
Good Luck!

I love this idea!  For me I would tweak the phrasing to something like "I really miss going or walks by the river, we don't have places like that in Korea, who wants to come with me?".  My family is actually pretty supportive and all but "I'd love for us to go together" would get a response somewhere in the lovingly-razzing to unintended-rejection range ;)

[nikki]

I'm back from the trip! It was just as awful as I anticipated.

But I already wrote about it on my journal, so https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/nikki%27s-journal/msg212722/#msg212722 if you'd like to know about it all.

I do feel like my trip wasn't as bad as it could have been had I not implemented a lot of your suggestions, so thank you to everyone who chimed in. I looked at many things anthropologically and without judgment; steered my grandmother to talking about her past rather than her health, eating, or spending habits (unfortunately she likes talking about those things, and I have opinions...); and drank plenty of alcohol.

I feel very comfortable not returning for AT LEAST two more years.

[sheepstache]

Every time they do or say something that is highly antimustachian, laugh at them to their faces and then say through your laughter..."My God, you people are so repulsive, like the most repulsive people ever. They need to make a t.v. show about you like they did with Jersey Shore, because you are just like them. I am soooo much better than you, and I can't quite get over the fact of how I could be related to you. Please tell me I was adopted, or in your case, you bought me to be a cleaning slave, but were too drunk to remember the transaction, and just ended up believing over time I was an actual member of this ridiculous familial unit." Then leave the room still laughing before they can respond.

I also like the cell phone jammer idea.

Although this is highly illegal, you very well could drug them with peyote or LSD or something, and then pull a large spoof of A Christmas Carol. I'm just saying, drastic times call for drastic measures.

He comes.  He suggests someone drug their entire family.  He leaves.