Financial infidelity ... SOS

[pdxvandal]

I feel a bit stuck and conflicted in my marriage of 15+ years. (I know most of y'all aren't trained counselors, but I've always appreciated MMM's forum wisdom. So bear with me ... and I am talking individually with a counselor next week.)

Anyway, we've had our ups and downs like any marriage. But upon applying for a mortgage a few years ago, some of my SO's financial skeletons were revealed -- to the tune of about $50,000 in credit-card debt she had hidden from me, basically admitting to a shopping addiction/problem. Luckily, we had funds from a house sale to pay it off, but had to have the "Come to Jesus" talk. At that moment, I was considering just moving on, but both of us coming from divorced parents, we wanted to make it work. She got some counseling which she claimed that it helped. I forgave her with the caveat that I have to control all the finances and credit cards, as well with the declaration that "this can't happen again." Not like I really wanted this role by any means, but felt like it needed to be done to save the marriage.

Weeellllll, fast forward a few years later, and last night I discovered some credit cards hidden in her dresser (our 10-year-old daughter did actually and flashed them to me). One of them was a Chase Sapphire Reserved, which many of you know carries a $550 yearly fee. I grew instantly suspicious. I asked her about them a few minutes later, and she said "I'm just keeping those open to help my credit score." Later that night, I called the number on the back and quickly found out there was about $12k of debt on that one. I really don't even know what the heck she could spend it on in a 2-year period. We drive old cars and 95% of our furniture is second-hand.

I'm not a vindictive, or resentful person by nature ... I'd say more practical, reasonable and forgiving. But this one is hard to swallow and I simply feel like I can't fully trust her ... like ever again. Maybe that feeling will subside somewhat as it did a few years ago, but this time feels way different. I haven't confronted her yet about it as we have two houseguests this weekend, but thinking about talking (not yelling or brow-beating, but certainly calling her out) to her next week to get her explanation.

As she's the (secret) spender, and I'm the investor who doesn't really buy anything for himself, she would get a sizable chunk of money in a divorce settlement, which would probably increase my FIRE date for another 5-6 years, which sucks but willing to consider for long-term happiness. I'm just not sure I can trust her, or even respect her to some degree, ever again. Maybe because this is too fresh and I need to give it time. But I also don't want to put in the time and effort again to "fix" things, when ultimately, they could easily go to $hit again based on past performance.

She has a full time job and makes about $55k, whereas I'm closer to $75k. Our net worth is roughly $1M, so paying off this new "surprise!" debt isn't really that hard. But at this point, money's not the big issue ... it's trust and mutual respect because I do feel like my SO has disrespected me and our daughter with continuing to be selfish with hidden purchases, which I'm thinking are more along the lines of clothing and jewelry. If she had admitted this debt to me without me accidentally discovering it, I might not be writing this post at all and just try to work it out (although still be disappointed.

We're in our mid-40s and I feel like I have at least a solid 30 years ahead of me not to deal with this, and live my own life, as emotionally/financially painful divorce can be for all parties. She's a good mother, and nice person, but has made a lot of impulsive, bad decisions several times in her adult life, even before she met me (I'm not perfect either). We generally get along, but some of these financial infidelities may have allowed me to slowly drift further apart from her.

For any of you who have been in this position before, do I just cut my losses and run? Am I being too harsh over $12k that we can easily afford and possibly move on from? Dual marriage counseling? I must say, I'm feeling 70/30 at the moment to move on from the relationship, and like MMM, as amicably as possible with focusing on our one child's well-being. Part of me just feels like I've been played enough times, even if that wasn't her true intention. It just feels like $hit and I don't want it to happen again.

Ugh, forgive me for throwing up all over this page. It's therapeutic for me to write it out. Time for a glass of wine. Thank you for reading this far.

[seemsright]

Okay. Lets look at this from a bigger picture. What else is going on? Your wife is working full time, making some money, dealing with all that life deals with her. You know her coping skill is spending. She clearly has a issue with this. You would not turn your back on her if she had cancer, or some other health issue. You are mad that she did not tell you and hid credit cards from you. Why are you as a team not running credit reports once a year? Then you could find this kind of thing.

I do not think you running from this is fair. Marriage counseling STAT. There is other issues under the surface that you must uncover. Money is the number one thing that breaks up family's. But your networth it is all working.

Note I have a 10 year old and I FIRED when she was born. Hubby and I are both savers. I buy wine, and whiskey. He buys electronics. And we both flat out do not care. If my wine is  $12.99 a month or if his electronics are $500.

The problem is the hiding in my opinion. There is something else going on figure that out before you jump to divorce.

[englishteacheralex]

I listen to Dave Ramsey every day. I took his FPU class ten years ago and led the class with my husband four years ago. I disagree with Dave Ramsey on a lot of things, but after hearing calls exactly like this one about once a week for a decade, I can tell you what his advice would be:

1. Divorce is expensive and tragic. It's a last resort. Seems like this infraction might not be final-straw worthy. But hey, that's just me.

2. It sounds like when you took over the money, you didn't ever let her get on board with you and work together on creating a budget and communicating about how money should be allocated. If that's the case, you may have continuously created a situation where she didn't feel like she could tell you about the little things she wanted and so she resorted to buying stuff and hiding it. Which is definitely bad behavior, but if you never eased off the whole "you're horrible with money so now I do everything with our money and you just have to live with it" track after the first big breach, that might have made conditions ripe for guilty, hidden spending.

$12k isn't much...it's just a couple of hundred dollars a month on girly things that husbands don't always think are necessary, like haircuts and make up and new shoes. It's a thousand cuts of...I work too, and I want a lipstick/fancy coffee/a pair of earrings and she doesn't feel like she can tell you about that stuff. Or maybe she's buying stuff for the kid. Or who knows. But there's something about her spending desires that she doesn't feel like she can tell you about for some reason, and dialing into that reason is going to be really important.

2. The whole Dave Ramsey thing for couples is that they HAVE to communicate about money. There's no legit reason for one spouse to "take over" the finances for a prolonged period of time. The one thing I will go to the mat for as far as Dave Ramsey goes is the shared money/shared budget/monthly budget meetings communication for couples aspect of his plan. I mean, sure, plenty of couples split money up and whatever if it works for them, but for couples who are having troubles because their values are not in alignment when it comes to money--you HAVE to talk about this stuff and get on the same page. You should be sharing all credit reports, all accounts, everything. $12k over a few years really isn't that much money. It's a slight misalignment of values that could have been headed off if there were some kind of monthly "blow money" category in a mutually agreed-upon budget.

I mean, you could easily read all this and fire back "BUT SHE HAD MONTHLY BLOW MONEY" etc, and maybe y'all do have a shared budget and do regular meetings about money, and this still happened because she's shifty and shady and has a sad character flaw. And in that case man I don't know what to tell you. But if you're not way beyond all those clear and tangible solutions, I'd strongly, strongly recommend taking Dave Ramsey's FPU and getting the Every Dollar budget app and the whole shebang. AND get counseling, too, because the whole betrayal thing is brutal and I'm so sorry.

[Letj]

With your net worth this is really not a lot of money. She may have a spending problem or she may not. It’s not hard to rack up $12K of credit card debt. Do you know what she is spending it on - helping family, your daughter, hair/make-up/clothes? Does she already have an allowance? Given your moderate income and the fact that you now have $1 million net worth after 15 years of marriage tells me that she isn’t that much of a reckless spender. I can’t see throwing away an otherwise good marriage for this reason. Divorce is difficult on everyone and would be especially so for your 10 year old daughter. The guilt and regret after divorce can be terrible. You question yourself on whether it was all worth it. There are clearly bad circumstances that warrant divorce but in my opinion, not this one. Your post gives me the impression that you want out of the marriage period and might be using this as a way to justify/feel better about a divorce.

[Mrs Brightside]

It sounds like you're keeping your emotional distance from your wife already. I didn't see anything in your post about how you love her or what her great qualities are or why you married her in the first place. The strongest positive thing you said was that she's a nice person. I realize that might not be top of mind when you feel betrayed a second time. I think there's great advice here about being really open and getting her on board with finances rather than being "in charge" or giving her an "allowance" (cringe). But on the interpersonal side, maybe you can find a way to take a vacation together or in some way get in touch with whether or why you want to share a life with this person (other than the kid). Sorry if this is way off base but that's just how your post struck me.

[pdxvandal]

Thank you for all the feedback so far, much appreciated. I certainly need to go through some counseling before making any knee-jerk or rash decisions (which includes asking the no-fee MMM counselors). That's why I'm trying to talk this out on the interwebs as well as a few close confidants to help guide me on the best approach. I can't do it alone.

For @Mrs Brightside, you're right, I was only focused on the negative. Although we have some divergent interests, we also are generally aligned politically, musically, culinarily and travel-wise. Certainly some shared common interests here. No marriage is perfect and we have to recognize our successes (stable household, raising a good kid, we get along by and large). It's far from a complete marital failure.

To answer @Letj, yes she has had a monthly allowance to spend on whatever she wants. It's not much, but much more than I would spend monthly on non-essentials. As said in my original post, I don't even love that arrangement and would prefer to just let her do her thing without worry. I'm sure our current approach can be tweaked through better communication and/or professional help. I must say this seems to work better than previously which was separate finances (she had big student loans, which was another "surprise" in our relationship ... my fault for not investigating that further). Clearly, she has money challenges and I want to help, if it can be helped. 

I'm really trying not to be a dick about it all, but it's still very frustrating. I'm a little apprehensive of finding out there's more than the $12k, but hope that's not the case.

[iluvzbeach]

Between the $50K a few years ago and now $12K in new, hidden debt, I’d be out of there. More than the money, it’s the dishonesty and betrayal that would make me walk. I grew up in a financially insecure family and have watched one particular family member destroy their life and their spouse’s life over finances. It’s simply something I would not tolerate. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

You have every right to be upset. I wish you the best in whatever you decide.

[Tass]

I forgave her with the caveat that I have to control all the finances and credit cards

I am not diminishing the seriousness of your wife's deception, but this is a big red flag to me. It says that none of the causes of the original problem was ever addressed; that no effort was made to develop or repair communication and trust; and that shame and control were the only tools applied. If a friend told me that her husband laid down these conditions, I would be alarmed, no matter the size of her mistake.

That doesn't really tell you how to move forward. But this does not sound like a healthy solution to me - even besides the fact that it hasn't worked.

[MilesTeg]

The people telling you to blow up your marriage and your child's life over this are off their nut, IMO. No one is perfect, and the financial impact here is very small compared to your overall prosperity.

She's made mistakes and hasn't been a good partner in this respect no doubt, but you've also made mistakes and not been a good partner either by giving ultimatums, being controlling and comparing secret spending to infidelity.

The real issue here us that BOTH of you have terrible communication skills. That's what needs to be worked on.

[lollylegs]

I'd talk to her about doing some marriage counselling together about this, its about much more than money. Marriage counselling can help you decide wether you want to stay or go. Find someone who is Gottman trained and experienced.

[six-car-habit]

She's made mistakes and hasn't been a good partner in this respect no doubt, but you've also made mistakes and not been a good partner either by giving ultimatums, being controlling and comparing secret spending to infidelity.

If my partner and i agree to go a certain diet, say a no "added sugar"  diet , because we'll win a prize as well as losing pounds   ---  and the partner is losing weight, but i am not    --- I am eating well at home in front of them, but they find out i am cramming ice cream and milk chocolate down my throat, in secret behind the minimart   ---- causing us to lose out on the prize.   Am i not participating in Diet infidelity ?
   
 Thats why the OP called it " financial infidelity".... OP didn't imply any other sort of infidelity.

[Metalcat]

Wow...normally forum members jump straight to divorce the moment a spouse shows any financial weakness. This really is a first here in my experience.

Um, I'm actually going to go against the very emotionally generous grain of most of the members who have responded so far and COMPLETELY validate your feelings of betrayal, anger, pain, fear of having to deal with this in the future, and urge to cut and run.

I think your sense of betrayal is entirely justified. This isn't a first incident, this is the first relapse that you've caught, after making it very clear that this behaviour is completely unacceptable to you.

I'm not saying you should get divorced, I agree with others that it's really a serious thing that should only be done if you are absolutely certain. However, I also know that almost every divorced person I know should have called it quits loooooong before they did.

I lived through something similar. I know exactly what it's like to never be sure if you can trust what your spouse is saying to your face. To basically stumble upon the evidence of their lies, and have no idea if you can trust their version of what happened. Addicts lie. It's a fundamental part of the pathology, and living with it can utterly fuck with your mind, it's like constantly being gaslit.

Whether you stay or go is entirely up to you, but this stranger on the internet believes that you shouldn't put any pressure on yourself to stay with someone you can't trust if that's truly how you feel.

Now, perhaps you can trust her. Perhaps, as people above have said, her issues behind her spending were never dealt with, communication was never really established, she never got the counselling support she needs, etc, etc. If you want to make it work, if you want to trust her, there may be a lot of work the two of you can do to come through this stronger than ever.

I just don't believe that you should feel you have to if in your gut you know you will never trust her. That's not only for your sake but for hers. Living as someone who isn't trusted is torture.

Love is trust, without trust there is no love.

Good luck with your counselling, try to spend your time right now not on focusing on what you want to do, but on getting yourself adequate emotional support for the trauma you've experienced. Because yes, this type of betrayal is trauma.

Spend some time healing for a bit, and then work on figuring out what you need to do. None of this needs to be figured out today.

[JGS1980]

This may not be worthy of divorce, but these issues need immediate counseling. If you have not done a credit report for her yet, it’s time. Once you know the full extent, then you can talk things through and make decisions.

[Queen Frugal]

I couldn't live that way.

I don't think "controlling" the finances really works over the long term.

Good friends of mine are in a similar situation. When he discovered her secret spending, he took control of the finances because he rightly doesn't trust her. It works for a while and she even buys in for a while, feeling remorseful about her dishonesty, but eventually she rebels because she has no control over the finances and racks up more secret credit card debt. Then he finds out. The process repeats and they end up more and more miserable. He feels this is all her fault and he has done nothing wrong but being a grownup with an allowance living with someone who doesn't trust you is - as someone else commented - torture.

Definitely some counseling is in order to see if there is a way through this. But you have every right to be upset.

[Smokystache]

You have a right to be angry and frustrated.

But I think it is also helpful to get more information. I understand you have house guests and this may take some time, but l'd be very curious to know what the money was spent on and over what period of time.

One possible scenario is that this is $100-200 month on expenses for your child(ren) and some for her (although upon re-reading, it sounds like this is more like $500/month over 2 years). At the risk of being completely wrong and overly stereotypical - I'll share my experience. I'm married to a wife and have 3 daughters. I grew up with 1 brother and a non-frills mom. What I initially thought of as a reasonable expense does not match what my wife thinks is a reasonable expense. We've had to discuss it and come to an agreement - - and it is much higher than I initially thought. But she also does all the work in buying clothes, buying gifts, decorating for holidays and birthdays, buys gifts for my family members, etc. Your mileage may vary, but I have come to realize that I can't take my level of expenses from when I was single and then double it when I'm married, and tack on a little bit for some curtain-climbers. It was a big wake-up call for me.

A different scenario: she is gambling, she is buying extravagant things only for herself or people outside the family - that's a big no no.

It is certainly would be frustrating considering you thought this issue was resolved. On the other hand, we're talking about 1.2% of your net worth. I do know that if one-half of a couple always feels like they are in the "down" or "untrusted" position, then the relationship won't last and they will eventually do something (consciously or unconsciously) to regain their power.

tldr: You have a right to be angry. But this is worth going slow, gathering information, and looking at it from her side too.

[simple money]

I had a very similar post early this year. Please change your mind-set, if you love your wife don't let this end your marriage. It is very minor and not worth it. Think about all the things you do like about her, even though it's hard when your angry. Almost every woman I know buys things and doesn't want to explain it to their husband. Every time my friends husband notices something new she says "it came with the house." It's a joke now and luckily, he knows whatever the thing is makes her happy and he doesn't fight it (even though he doesn't understand it.)

Try not to get into the hole of reading these replies and envisioning your wife as this horrible deceptive person before you talk to her. When you "took control" over finances eventually, she just needed a place to spend (like the other post said probably on something like clothes, make-up, homeware etc. not something aweful.) I mean you said everything in your house is second-hand, maybe she wants something new for herself without having to explain it...we are not all mustachians.
My husband was spending through his business and hiding it from me and other financial sneaky stuff (much more than your wife.) That sent me on a path of looking for more and anything I found became worse in my imagination than in reality. Reading the replies to my post here had me thinking even worse about him, I was thinking divorce too.
I, like you waited and let things fester until finally we had a major blow out fight and let it all out.
Before I got into this MMM way of life, he spent freely w/o much interference from me. After I began to track every dime of our finances, he got frustrated. He didn't want everything he was spending to be on paper and be called out for it. He wanted to spend and enjoy, which is not how I or people here think. At the beginning of the year when all this was happening, i couldn't see his point, now I can understand his side.
I am SO GLAD we are together and making things work because IT IS NOT WORTH getting a divorce from someone you LOVE and care about. It would have been torture for me and our family over what? MONEY. She is not doing this behind your back to lose your trust and be deceitful, she just wants to spend some money that she works for and not have it tracked and called out by someone.
I get it now and we have come along way. Now, I see things he spends on that piss me off but I let it slide. He is so open now, he lets me go through anything at his company and even appreciates my input. He'll ask, should I put this on this account or that (I'll even say, you don't have to ask me about EVERYTHING...but I'm glad he does.)
One thing that helped him see the error of his ways. He was having $350 taken out of every paycheck w/o telling me and direct depositing it into an account I didn't know about-for over FOUR YEARS. I asked to see the account and there wasn't much money in there. I looked at the spending which was fine wines, tickets and things I would be pissed about (but nothing like a mistress or too bad.) I said "for the next four years your going to take $350 out of every paycheck and put it in this account (a individual tax account I opened for myself @ fidelity.) It's growing fast and it has helped him to see, I could have THAT amount if I just didn't spend on whatever it is...which now he can see, I think I'd rather have all that money instead.
He even tells other people when they talk about being in debt or financial problems "you should have my wife help you out, she is a wiz at this stuff."

[iris lily]

Good advice here.

Where is Frankie’s girl to offer her perspective?

[Steeze]

Marriage counseling, therapy, and credit monitoring should cover it.

She could blow $6k a year for the next 60 years and it would be cheaper than a divorce.

You got a Mil - maybe it’s time to up that allowance a few hundred a month in exchange for the credit cards and credit monitoring.

My parents split up for similar reasons. Mom couldn’t stop spending, dad took control of finances, mom resented my dad for small allowance for years, mom cheated on dad with rich boss, they split, mom got her own place, bought a new car, bought all the new furniture and decorations she’d been wanting, new clothes, fancy food - $50,000 in debt and two years later they reconciled. Devastating their relationship with each other and their three kids in the process.

My mom doesn’t need a ton of money to spend, but she needs more than my dad. My dad majorly screwed up by hiding money from my mom and never letting her see their full financial picture. Eventually she found out he had money in accounts she didn’t know about like his 401k. She is living lower than her family’s means for a decade and finds out he’s been saving behind her back. They are poor so we are talking less than $10,000 saved ever in their lives.

A few years after they got back together they were gifted a Dave Ramsey course. It was like a lightbulb went off in their minds like maybe they should stop spending 110% of their earnings. They invited me over to help them go through their bills and create a budget and a plan to get out of debt. This after 30 years of only fighting about money. I did it on the condition that they disclosed all of the accounts, all of the spending, and would seek a marriage counselor.

The last few years of their lives have been the happiest I think. For the first time they have a open and honest financial relationship. My mom needed more money to spend to avoid debt. They agreed that my mom would give 50% of her income to the household to pay down debt and the rest was hers. That gave her about 5x what my dad previously allowed. Funny thing is, they have never saved more. All he had to do is tell her how much they had (nothing), how much debt they were in (a lot), and let her spend they money she earned. Mom is happy and stays away from the credit cards for the most part, dad has a solid budget and a plan that works with 50% of her income.

My dad still freaks out a bit when she goes nuts at Christmas, but she is getting better now that she knows that causes them to not make extra payments on the mortgage for months after. Before she was in the dark. They are increasing their net worth for the first time in their married lives and might even hit “0” before social security kicks in.

Will be a big wake up call for both of them when they need to cut their spending by 75% after they retire and try to live on SS alone.

[pdxvandal]

Yes, some good advice here all around. That's why I'm asking for help before I approach my SO and will aim for dual counseling, pull credit report, make a plan, etc. But it's good to see some folks understand why I'm upset, hurt, frustrated, contemplating separation. I sure don't want to experience these feelings, but I'm just saying how I truly feel.

As far as diplomatically/calmly approaching her about the secret debt, would it change anyone's minds (especially those who think I need to buck up, improve communications, get counseling) if she initially denied she had this secret debt? Or is that just a moot point? I would feel even more betrayed, honestly, if she denied it at first and not be fully transparent after I inquire.

[Jon Bon]

Yup you are absolutely allowed to be pissed as hell. She broke your trust, that is a big deal in marriage. Is it a big enough deal to leave? Sure, you can leave for anything you want, that's all on you. This is a big deal, even if its not very much money. Even if divorce is much more expensive (it is) however if you don't think this is fixable and secret debt is gonna happen every few years I would likely think about walking too.


Re: Others talking about how you "took over" finances. I mean this is freaking MMM we ALL take over the finances, we are personal finance people! I track everything, my spouse tracks nothing. I have to remind her she got paid, I have had to tell her she got a raise at work! This works for us. She is not on an allowance, I do monitor her spending because I monitor all the spending.  I trust her completely and this system works for us. 

Basically all I wanted to say is some of us want to be in charge of the finances and some of us don't. 

[mspym]

As far as diplomatically/calmly approaching her about the secret debt, would it change anyone's minds (especially those who think I need to buck up, improve communications, get counseling) if she initially denied she had this secret debt? Or is that just a moot point? I would feel even more betrayed, honestly, if she denied it at first and not be fully transparent after I inquire.

I dunno, normal people lie because they are trying to project or protect their image of themselves in some way. No one wants to feel "caught out" or "in trouble", especially not with their partner. If you approach it from an angle of 'here is a mutual problem that we need to work out how to solve together' and not from an angle of 'a-HA! I have caught you in a LIE! I was right to not trust you!' you are likely to get better results, assuming your goal is to repair your relationship and stay married.

It is ok for you to decide you can't trust her and don't want to stay married. If you want your marriage to be healthy, it's not ok to decide you can't trust her and are going to hold her mistakes over her forever. So you need to get on the same side or work out if you should split up.

[Steeze]

Yup you are absolutely allowed to be pissed as hell. She broke your trust, that is a big deal in marriage. Is it a big enough deal to leave? Sure, you can leave for anything you want, that's all on you. This is a big deal, even if its not very much money. Even if divorce is much more expensive (it is) however if you don't think this is fixable and secret debt is gonna happen every few years I would likely think about walking too.


Re: Others talking about how you "took over" finances. I mean this is freaking MMM we ALL take over the finances, we are personal finance people! I track everything, my spouse tracks nothing. I have to remind her she got paid, I have had to tell her she got a raise at work! This works for us. She is not on an allowance, I do monitor her spending because I monitor all the spending.  I trust her completely and this system works for us. 

Basically all I wanted to say is some of us want to be in charge of the finances and some of us don't.

Pretty much how it works at my house too - wife doesn’t care about money too much so I manage everything. She can spend whatever she wants which isn’t much. She thinks we are poor and I keep telling her we are rich!

My parents though - mom worked 60+ hours a week, multiple jobs and had a pathetic allowance for an adult with three kids. Plus she never trusted my dad to be honest about how much money they had, he always told her they had nothing, and she didn’t believe him. She did know that if she spent $5000 on a credit card he would magically take care of it after a big fight. So in her mind they had money she didn’t know about. She just didn’t understand that it would take months, even years, to pay back or that a big part of her income went to debt service. My dad literally controlled the money - hid how much they had, what accounts they had, how much debt they had, what their income was, what their spending was. He knew they were in bad shape, but because talking about it only caused a fight he just didn’t tell her anything. They only spoke about money to fight after she spent money on something she wasn’t supposed to.

My wife knows everything, more than she cares about. She has a list of all the accounts, all the passwords, all the balances, she is joint owner on everything. End of every month we sit down and update The Spreadsheet together. She even will feign enthusiasm because she knows I am excited to do it.

Big difference between how I “control” the finances and how my dad controlled the finances.

[shuffler]

As far as diplomatically/calmly approaching her about the secret debt, would it change anyone's minds (especially those who think I need to buck up, improve communications, get counseling) if she initially denied she had this secret debt?

It sounds like you're planning to ask her if she's been doing any secret spending, and give her the "opportunity" to deny it.
I recommend you not do that.  No point setting a trap.  If she lies/minimizes, you'll be upset about it.  If she's honest, she'll later resent you trying to trap her.

I'd suggest that after your guests leave, you tell her what you know, and how it was you came to know it.  Then listen to her explanation.  As others have said, the amount isn't super significant.  *Why* she was spending and *why* she was covert about it will be much more important to the future of your relationship.

[Cassie]

Counseling could help your marriage and help you both find a compromise that will work. I would work hard to save a marriage with a child at stake. This is from a woman that has divorced 2 husbands.  I stayed until my kids were grown. If you guys were fighting all the time my advice would be different. Divorce is painful even if you want it.

[Metalcat]

Yes, some good advice here all around. That's why I'm asking for help before I approach my SO and will aim for dual counseling, pull credit report, make a plan, etc. But it's good to see some folks understand why I'm upset, hurt, frustrated, contemplating separation. I sure don't want to experience these feelings, but I'm just saying how I truly feel.

As far as diplomatically/calmly approaching her about the secret debt, would it change anyone's minds (especially those who think I need to buck up, improve communications, get counseling) if she initially denied she had this secret debt? Or is that just a moot point? I would feel even more betrayed, honestly, if she denied it at first and not be fully transparent after I inquire.

Dude, I really get it.
The *second* time you catch someone betraying your trust is infinitely worse than the first time. It shakes the psychological ground you walk on. Anyone who has been through it understands exactly why. It's fucking gnarly.

[cchrissyy]

i think the advice so far has been really good

the only thing to add is i think pull your own credit report, as well as hers, so you know if there are cards beyond the ones you found. I don't know if you should do that right this minute or if you should wait and do it together. But you need to know the whole extent of the issue and not live in fear that more will be revealed inch by inch.

oh, and also you need to know if this was spending on reasonable extras for herself and the child - and if so i think the advice given above about control and counseling are on track -  or does the spending come from a bigger issue such as hidden alcoholism. in a way that would be good news because treatment and education on a topic like that is readily available for both of you.

[Catbert]

What was she spending it on when she previously racked up 50K! in debt?  Hookers and blow?  Or "extras" for her and your children?  Did you collectively figure out the why? 

[pdxvandal]

Thanks for understanding, @Malcat.

This was the second secret credit-card related issue in a 3-year span, and yes, the second one is FAR more painful. However, not to get too deep into everything that's affected trust earlier in our marriage, but a few other things popped up years ago, which I forgave her for. For example, she didnt' come clean about her fairly signifiicant student loans until well into our marriage (partially my fault no doubt ... but still ... just talk to me, but she told me she was paying on them and became defensive). So also had another non-financial legal mistake she made when she was just out of high school. That followed her for years eventually became another surprise where I found out through a third party early in our marriage. Also forgave her after she cried and told me the semi-ugly details.

I'm a forgiving person, likely to a fault. But as I forgave her and we plowed thorugh those long-ago mistakes/secrets, I didn't really consider them in my in initial post, as I like to give all people the benefit of the doubt and allow reasonable room for redemption. Nobody's perfect.  Although some people would have run away like a hair-on-fire banshee in those situations, I'm sure.

I mean, we just spent $20k on a home improvement last month, part of which included a non-essential project she really wanted and I obliged (I'm really not the control-type some people are painting me here). Having known of her debt prior, I certainly would have not sold some post-tax VTSAX and would've put that toward the debt and waited to do the project next year. Ugh. This sounds like a god-damn soap opera, and I'm not a dramatic person by nature. Thanks again for taking in my "As the World Turns" episode.

[pdxvandal]

What was she spending it on when she previously racked up 50K! in debt?  Hookers and blow?  Or "extras" for her and your children?  Did you collectively figure out the why?

I never got a straight answer, but a think a large chunk of that money was compounding interest and fees over several years as she had a hard time paying much above the minimum. That $hit adds up quickly. So, the actual spend was probably at least $10k below that. I figured after our tough talk several years ago, where she said she was afraid I'd leave her but would change her ways and give up the financial reins, there was no need to get into the nitty-gritty details (in retrospect after this week, I should have ... water under the bridge at this point).

My hunch it was pretty much spent on nights out with friends, clothes, shoes and jewelry, all brand new of course, and she has WAY more of that kind of stuff than I do. Yes, it's still a bit mind-boggling to me to as I told her a few years ago she really had nothing to show for it, just debt, stress and marital heartache.

That being said, I'm DEFINITELY going to see the line-item CC statement on this latest transgression.

[mspym]

Hey there, not painting you as a controlling person just this may be how your wife is seeing it. But the thing is, you don't seem to know her point of view and the language you are using is still directional (she'll give up the financial reins/ you told her she really had nothing to show for the spend/ forgiving her) and not a team solving a problem together.

You don't seem to know or be curious about why she is spending and what she gets out of it, or why she feels the need to hide it from you. And the odds are high that she is hiding it from you because of fear and self-protection.

[pdxvandal]

Hey there, not painting you as a controlling person just this may be how your wife is seeing it. But the thing is, you don't seem to know her point of view and the language you are using is still directional (she'll give up the financial reins/ you told her she really had nothing to show for the spend/ forgiving her) and not a team solving a problem together.

You don't seem to know or be curious about why she is spending and what she gets out of it, or why she feels the need to hide it from you. And the odds are high that she is hiding it from you because of fear and self-protection.

Well, I already explained her point of view in that she told me she had a shopping addition and needed help. She went to a handful of counseling sessions about it and said it helped her. But obviously it's still a problem.

We did team up and created a new way of me handling the finances (she doesn't like doing it and seemed 100% on board wiht me doing it), sharing credit cards, tracking spending through Personal Capital, etc. On top of her "allowance" she also got a part time gig where she could spend it on whatever she wants (but maybe to help her with her own debts).

It seemed to be working for the past few years, but obviously it hasn't. I'm not saying it's all her fault, and we could still definitely improve both of our communication on these matters. But would you risk a marriage and family and house after all that by opening up another credit card, liikely spending it on largely unnecessary items and hiding it from your spouse? If I truly loved and respected that person, I don't think I would risk it. But these are thing I need to get to the bottom of over the next few weeks.

[wonkette]

I'm really sorry you're going through this. I agree with most of the posters here that this is a serious, but perhaps not fatal, wound to your marriage.

I wanted to ask about your daughter's role in all of this. She showed you the cards? Is it possible she is "in" on this in some ways? Like a 'let's go to the mall but don't tell Dad' kind of thing?

I grew up with parents who hid things from each other financially. I hated feeling in the middle of secrets, hated the inevitable fights, and it set me up for a terrible relationship with money. My Dad's scheme was taking out cash to spend on thing my mom would consider frivolous, sometimes fun things I got to participate in like going to the local amusement park which are some really fun memories, but the not fun memories were my Mom screaming at him about where the money went. My Mom was a classic shopper, often with coupons and rewards credit cards (It was such a good deal!) but to the point that I know they rolled credit card debt into their mortgage at least twice. Coming home from the mall and hiding the purchases was a frequent occurrence. This modeled a spend-guilt-spend-guilt-spend-guilt cycle for me that I still fall into sometimes!

I wish that instead my parents had modeled openness, honesty and shared decision making. And told me what a Roth IRA was.

The worst cases of financial infidelity/financial abuse I've ever seen is where a parent uses their child's credit to hide spending. Please double check that this isn't happening and lock your child's credit if you haven't already.

[pdxvandal]

I wanted to ask about your daughter's role in all of this. She showed you the cards? Is it possible she is "in" on this in some ways? Like a 'let's go to the mall but don't tell Dad' kind of thing?

No, definitely not the case. Our kid was upstairs looking for something her mom keeps in one of her dresser drawers and found the cards buried below some clothing, i.e., "I can't find what I was looking for, but I see some credit cards!". I was only a few feet away in another room when it occurred.

Our kid is 10 and has no credit to speak of. But that would be a super $hitty thing to happen to anyone!

[Metalcat]

What was she spending it on when she previously racked up 50K! in debt?  Hookers and blow?  Or "extras" for her and your children?  Did you collectively figure out the why?

I never got a straight answer, but a think a large chunk of that money was compounding interest and fees over several years as she had a hard time paying much above the minimum. That $hit adds up quickly. So, the actual spend was probably at least $10k below that. I figured after our tough talk several years ago, where she said she was afraid I'd leave her but would change her ways and give up the financial reins, there was no need to get into the nitty-gritty details (in retrospect after this week, I should have ... water under the bridge at this point).

My hunch it was pretty much spent on nights out with friends, clothes, shoes and jewelry, all brand new of course, and she has WAY more of that kind of stuff than I do. Yes, it's still a bit mind-boggling to me to as I told her a few years ago she really had nothing to show for it, just debt, stress and marital heartache.

That being said, I'm DEFINITELY going to see the line-item CC statement on this latest transgression.

Makes sense. You kind of stuck your head in the sand and hoped that her intense will to make things better would solve the problem. She said all of the right things and you didn't want to run salt in the wound, so you tried to quickly sweep it into the past and move forward.

Sadly, that doesn't work. Willpower does almost nothing to solve problems, the underlying issues need to be addressed. She may have been willing to say and commit to anything and everything out of shame the first time, but that means sweet fuck all if the source of the problem isn't understood and managed appropriately on an ongoing fashion.

Clamping down on the finances is you reacting to the symptoms, not the problem. You can't control another person's behaviour, you just can't, and it's unhealthy to try, for both of you.

Believe me, I understand. The reaction to try and control the situation pragmatically is logical, but this type of behaviour isn't logical, so your efforts are virtually guaranteed to lead to failure and probable worsening of the situation. Each experience of getting caught worsens the shame, and the shame actually drives the behaviour and ironically makes the person *more* deceptive, not less, even though that's what they feel shame about.

So yes, if you take the same approach with your wife again of getting angry, triggering her shame reactions, and focusing on how to control the situation, I can almost guarantee that this will happen again. You can demand to scrutinize her spending line by line, but it won't reveal what you need to know, which is what's actually underneath all of this.

As I said, you can't control her behaviour. You can put every single barrier in her way to getting formal debt, but if she wants it, she'll find it. There are always personal debts to accrue. You can think everything is under control for years until suddenly you get a difficult phone call from a family member wanting to talk about loan repayment terms because your spouse is very delinquent on their agreement, and you've like "um...wut??".

My point is not to scare you, my point is to show you that there's no level of control that you can exert over this situation in order to make it safe. The only path to safe is legitimately rebuilding trust, and only you know if you are willing to do that, because it's fucking hard.

Divorce is hard. Rebuilding broken trust is hard.
Pick your hard.

[Sibley]

Regarding the shopping problem.... if your wife does have an addiction, that's not something that is cured forever by a few counseling sessions. If addictions were cured that easily, we wouldn't have people in and out of drug rehab, in AA meetings for decades, etc. If there is an addiction at play, that is something that needs ongoing support. Because otherwise, you end up with relapses.

And yes, shopping can be a real addiction, on par with drugs, alcohol or gambling addictions.

[former player]

Previous posters are right that you cannot impose controls on your spouse's spending.  She is a legally competent adult and as such will always be able to open bank accounts, apply for credit cards and get loans from either respectable or less respectable sources, all of it without telling you.  That's just the way it is, legally speaking. 

As well as not being able to legally force your spouse into not using her rights as an adult to fund her spending you have also now found that the usual marriage framework of a joint financial enterprise hasn't worked for the two of you.  I'm not sure either we on this thread, or you in your own head, have got to the bottom of why that is.  It could be a shopping addiction but none of us have the evidence to prove that.  It could just be that your spouse's emotional and practical upbringing around finances was very different from yours and has stuck with her so that deep down she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.  It may be that living with old cars and second hand furniture is not her idea of a good life and she is spending on other things to compensate for that.  It could be that she has had some kind of rebound reaction as fallout from the $50k incident.   I've no idea, I don't think anyone on this thread has any idea, and I particularly think that you don't have any idea.

What is very clear to me is that you and your wife are not communicating at a level that makes a good marriage.  It's this communication problem that you need to solve.  If you and your spouse are failing to communicate about spending to such a spectacular extent I bet you are failing to communicate about other things too.  I would suggest opening your discussion with your wife by saying something along the lines of "we have both obviously failed at being able to talk openly and agree about finances between us.  I don't know why and I'm hoping you have some ideas as to why.  I love you, and we both love our daughter, and I think we have a good life together.  How do we start talking about the things that are difficult for us and make them better?"   Professional help in managing these conversations may well be necessary to help you break out of the patterns that will have inevitably developed over the course of the marriage but which aren't working for you both.

[Paper Chaser]

If you had a loving marriage, this is easy to overcome with some counciling.

Maybe it's just anger from the situation altering your perspective, but There's nothing in your posts that indicates to me that you actually love your wife. You talk a lot about being good partners and building a nice life together, or having things in common but not about loving each other or wanting to find a way to make it work for both partners.

That's the same kind of perspective that unhappy people use to justify staying in a marriage "for the kids", or because "divorce would cost too much" and those seem like miserable existences for everybody involved.

Divorce is an incredibly big decision with far reaching side effects, especially when kids are involved. For that reason I'd urge you to seek counciling as a couple. Not with the focus of getting past this spending/financial betrayal, but to figure out how to love each other again. If you love each other, the rest will work out*.

*Note that "working out" may not be the same as you getting your way, or her completely changing her ways to better fit your ideals. It's far more likely to require honest communication that leads to compromise from both of you.

[wenchsenior]

Regarding the shopping problem.... if your wife does have an addiction, that's not something that is cured forever by a few counseling sessions. If addictions were cured that easily, we wouldn't have people in and out of drug rehab, in AA meetings for decades, etc. If there is an addiction at play, that is something that needs ongoing support. Because otherwise, you end up with relapses.

And yes, shopping can be a real addiction, on par with drugs, alcohol or gambling addictions.

Not only can it be a real addiction, but the exact same mechanisms/processes in the brain are at work (minus the added physiologically addictive nature of substances). 

[fuzzy math]

You have to decide whether you still like her and whether you still love her. If you do, work together to get past this. If those feelings are permanently gone, it doesn't matter whether people here (or anywhere in your life) think that this is a small thing and not something worth splitting over. Only you know (or will know after counseling) that answer for yourself.

I was the child of a financially mismatched marriage. My mom had (and still has) a shopping addiction and compulsive spending tendencies. My dad had to give my mom an allowance for what to spend at the grocery store monthly, because she'd blow through everything and he'd complain we had no food. So instead she spent her money on clothes, jewelry, makeup etc at the grocery store where those things were also sold, because it wasn't obvious enough for him to track at the end of the month. We as kids were brought into her mess, I think because she couldn't shop for herself without getting in trouble, she shopped for her kids. I remember almost every single weekend spending one (OR BOTH) days at the mall. I'm sure it somewhat hit her addiction.

One of the biggest things you need to let her know is that by hiding it she's making it worse. If she's got shopping issues, she needs to be upfront about them. Not paying much on a $12k balance becomes a much more expensive problem than just paying off the $12k without interest / late fees. The worst part is you obviously could pay it off, but she's living in some shame spiral where those increasing balances are both unnecessary and making her feel worse. I used to live like that in college too. Its like a car wreck, its so horrible that you can't look and can't look away. She would feel so much better if she could come to some constructive way to deal with this. Is the solution upping her monthly spend to $1k a month? Is it her not having a credit card, and only using a debit card up to that $1k a month limit? Or does she somehow get high off the thrill of living dangerously on credit / hiding that debt? You really have to follow the rabbit hole to know where it leads. She has to be willing to participate in a way that is acceptable to her though instead of feeling this is being done against her will.

[john c]

I read somewhere that when the fantasy of divorce gets better then the reality of marriage, the lawyers get called in.  That's where you are now, or are headed soon.  The fantasy is better than the reality.  It's like, "My life would be great, as-is, without my spouse."  That's not what happens.

However, you are deluding yourself about divorce (as everyone does when starting the process).

1) You'll spend $80k on lawyers fees in the divorce process.

2) Your wife will get 50% of your $1M, or $500k.

3) Depending on where you live, you'll owe alimony for 50% of the marriage or 10 years, whichever is longer.  That will be $10k per year for 10 years.

4) You'll pay child support for your daughter (and any other kids) until they're 18.  This will be $1k per month, maybe more.

And most importantly:

5) What will this do to your daughter?  She's FIFTY times more likely to be the victim of abuse from mom's new boyfriend of husband. 

Focus on your marriage, repair that, and allow your wife $500/month extra spending money.  Heck, even $1000.  It's the best financial decision you'll ever make.

[mistymoney]

I really don't even know what the heck she could spend it on in a 2-year period. We drive old cars and 95% of our furniture is second-hand.

How much of this has been her choice?

but thinking about talking (not yelling or brow-beating, but certainly calling her out) to her next week to get her explanation.

wondering why you felt the need to qualify talking, not sure anyone would think talking = yelling or brow beating, but now that you added it, I'm wondering....

I'm just not sure I can trust her, or even respect her to some degree, ever again.

This is a bit harsh for someone who is a good person and mother

it's trust and mutual respect because I do feel like my SO has disrespected me and our daughter with continuing to be selfish with hidden purchases, which I'm thinking are more along the lines of clothing and jewelry.

You assume nothing was spent on household incidentals or your daughter?

 but some of these financial infidelities may have allowed me to slowly drift further apart from her.

Past time for couples counseling.

so - I'm wondering how much input your wife has had into your household budget and investing percentages?

What is the budget line item for clothes, jewelry, for wife and DD, household and kitchen, miscellaneous etc.?

Or is there a discretionary spending amount that is budgeted for your wife, and has she been ok with that amount?

And where in the budget would a Halloween costume for DD, or a new nonstick pan, or curtains come into play?

[pdxvandal]

My SO is someone who lives for today, and doesn't look far into the future. I'm not saying this is bad or a flaw per se, but it's an innate character trait and to some degree, genetic, as her mother and father are very similar. My own dad was like this, too, but my mom is the opposite and is more like me when it comes to future planning and investments. We just need to find more common ground and direction with our financial picture, expectations, wants, needs, etc.

That being said, she's simply not that interested in finance and investments, partially due to her relationship with money I'm sure. Her employer recently added a new 401k plan with a better match and she asked me how much she should put in. I recommended 10% would be a good start but didn't mandate that of her. Ultimately, it is her choice.

There's no line-item budget for non-essentials. She gets a set amount of money monthly to spend on whatever she wants, in addition to a side hustle she has that nets 200-300 per month ... unless there is some big debt to pay, I don't care if she spends or saves that.

We share a few credit cards and she occasionally buys non-essentials on that too, for example, recently bought a few inexpensive antiques and a new front-porch light. We do talk about large purchases, typically stuff over $300. It may seem unbelievable upon reading this entire thread, but our financial communications have actually been better the last few years than ever before. But clearly, it's not good enough ... we need to improve it together.

We live in a generally harmonious household and despite our need to improve communications, we've still done a lot of things right as a couple and family. We have a solid net worth, a nice house, good food to eat, friends we both like. Even though my SO has some spending issues and some expensive tastes, she also gets a thrill out of finding bargains, restoring furniture, and such. She still LOVES her 12-year-old Hyundai with 200k miles and says she wants another newer used one of that model eventually. She's driven nicer cars than I have most of our marriage.

We still love each other (of course love and trust can ebb and flow in ANY marital relationship). We went out to dinner for our anniversary a few weeks ago (with masks on) and had a great time together. As much as I am butt-hurt by her financial infidelities and then spewed it all over the interwebs to strangers, I'm confident she didn't do it to spite me or hurt our family. She has a kind heart, but a long, unhealthy relationship with money. She still needs help. We need help. A divorce is a last resort, but I can't supress my feelings of thinking about it when breaches of trust occur. I'm human. I'm still holding out hope, people. Life and adulting is just a bitch sometimes.

Thanks for all the MMM wisdom so far, a lot of which I agree with.

[Metalcat]

Sounds like you were incredibly hurt and super pissed off and have already calmed down about it quite a bit.

I'm glad to hear that your marriage is healthier than it may have seemed from your justifiable anger.

Good luck with your next steps, as I said, rebuilding that trust is fuuuucking hard, but if you can do it together, then a repaired trust can sometimes actually be stronger than one that was never seriously challenged. At least, you'll learn A KIT of communication skills along the way.

[debbie does duncan]

Your wife is being triggered by something and uses the secret spending to feel better about herself . This is her baggage . When it gets out of hand it becomes yours.  She learned this from I assume her parents. Can you recommend seeing a councillor for her to deal with her secret keeping? This is a sign of emotionally immaturity. https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1

[pdxvandal]

Thanks, @Malcat. I have calmed down a bit. It's just hard when I can't really talk to anyone about it truthfully until a counseling session. It's not like I'm going to talk about it to friends or family and throw her under the bus. I needed a place to blow off steam while getting constructive MMM feedback, because this $hit is not easy for me emotionally ... probably because I care about the future of her, us, our only child. We may be doomed as a couple eventually, who knows, but we need to at least try to not throw in the towel at this point in our marriage. If it's not meant to be, we'll both have to accept that.

Sounds like you were incredibly hurt and super pissed off and have already calmed down about it quite a bit.

I'm glad to hear that your marriage is healthier than it may have seemed from your justifiable anger.

Good luck with your next steps, as I said, rebuilding that trust is fuuuucking hard, but if you can do it together, then a repaired trust can sometimes actually be stronger than one that was never seriously challenged. At least, you'll learn A KIT of communication skills along the way.

[mistymoney]

My SO is someone who lives for today, and doesn't look far into the future. I'm not saying this is bad or a flaw per se, but it's an innate character trait and to some degree, genetic, as her mother and father are very similar. My own dad was like this, too, but my mom is the opposite and is more like me when it comes to future planning and investments. We just need to find more common ground and direction with our financial picture, expectations, wants, needs, etc.

That being said, she's simply not that interested in finance and investments, partially due to her relationship with money I'm sure. Her employer recently added a new 401k plan with a better match and she asked me how much she should put in. I recommended 10% would be a good start but didn't mandate that of her. Ultimately, it is her choice.

There's no line-item budget for non-essentials. She gets a set amount of money monthly to spend on whatever she wants, in addition to a side hustle she has that nets 200-300 per month ... unless there is some big debt to pay, I don't care if she spends or saves that.

We share a few credit cards and she occasionally buys non-essentials on that too, for example, recently bought a few inexpensive antiques and a new front-porch light. We do talk about large purchases, typically stuff over $300. It may seem unbelievable upon reading this entire thread, but our financial communications have actually been better the last few years than ever before. But clearly, it's not good enough ... we need to improve it together.

We live in a generally harmonious household and despite our need to improve communications, we've still done a lot of things right as a couple and family. We have a solid net worth, a nice house, good food to eat, friends we both like. Even though my SO has some spending issues and some expensive tastes, she also gets a thrill out of finding bargains, restoring furniture, and such. She still LOVES her 12-year-old Hyundai with 200k miles and says she wants another newer used one of that model eventually. She's driven nicer cars than I have most of our marriage.

We still love each other (of course love and trust can ebb and flow in ANY marital relationship). We went out to dinner for our anniversary a few weeks ago (with masks on) and had a great time together. As much as I am butt-hurt by her financial infidelities and then spewed it all over the interwebs to strangers, I'm confident she didn't do it to spite me or hurt our family. She has a kind heart, but a long, unhealthy relationship with money. She still needs help. We need help. A divorce is a last resort, but I can't supress my feelings of thinking about it when breaches of trust occur. I'm human. I'm still holding out hope, people. Life and adulting is just a bitch sometimes.

Thanks for all the MMM wisdom so far, a lot of which I agree with.

I don't think you should suppress your feelings, but don't skip out on couples counselling, and bring it up there for a calm discussion, not something flung out angrily or accusingly.

You can both do individual counselling as well over this - but I do think the couples piece is going to be really important.

How much discretionary spending does she need/month?  If it's 500 more a month, as the 12k on the cards after 2 years indicate, that might be a better way to go than trying to control it. Like when a diet becomes an eating disorder and it would have been better to carry that extra 15 pounds through life.

Be flexible, but do be honest, both of you, and get someone to help with that.

[Dicey]

I'll come back to read the comments later, when I have more time. Just going to leave this here...

My brother was in a similar situation with his first wife. He couldn't stand the suspense of the next debt bomb he was going to discover. Two wives later, he sometimes wishes he'd figured out a way to resolve the situation with his first wife. It would have cost him a lot less money and emotional angst in the long run. In hindsight, it wasn't as big a problem as it felt like at the time. Don't get me wrong, it is a hell of a betrayal, but throwing some time and cash for counseling into the motivation for her behavior might be the most mustachian choice in the long run.

Best wishes to you.

[lhamo]

A good couples counselor will be a worthwhile investment, no matter what the outcome.

[Laura33]

A few disconnected thoughts:

Most important:  I am so sorry you are dealing with this, and you have every right to be angry and hurt and wondering whether you should even stay in this relationship.  It's not the money.  It's the lying and hiding.  That is cancerous -- it eats away at the very foundation of your marriage in ways that can't always be repaired.  Brushing it off as "only" $XXX/"we can afford it" invalidates your completely reasonable feelings and misses the fundamental point.  Yes, this behavior is a threat to your marriage.  Not because you can't afford it.  But because if you can't trust someone in the little things, how can you trust them in the big things?   You can live with an agreement to spend more money as a couple; you cannot live with a partner you can't trust. 

You need some help and support.  Never mind the couples counselor -- yes, of course you need that too.  But you need someone right now to help you process your own feelings and emotions.  Do that ASAP.  Because whenever you do sit down with her with a counselor, you need to have gotten over that first rush of overwhelming emotions so you can engage helpfully.

Do not lay a trap for her by asking her if she's hiding CCs.  Nothing good ever comes from playing games and setting up tests and gotchas.  Tell her you found it, and tell her you think it's time for both of you to see a counselor.

When you have gotten over the first rush of emotions, I hope it will help if you can look at this not as the "second" infidelity but more as a failure to address the first one appropriately.  She has a "shopping addiction"?  Sure, that is absolutely a real thing.  But just saying that is a cop-out.  I mean, identifying the problem is the first step, sure -- but just putting a name on it doesn't magically make it go away.  She and you both need to do the hard work to figure out why she does it -- what is the trigger, what is the pattern, what is just habit/learned behavior, what other options she might have to meet that need.  And your initial "fix" of taking over finances?  Yeah, no.  You established yourself in the parental role, and her as the unruly teenager who couldn't be trusted to manage properly.  And what do kids do?  They rebel.  And if they can't rebel to your face, they will sneak out of the house and go smoke pot with their friends behind your back.  The "solution" you created a couple of years ago was in fact the best way to guarantee that she'd revert to the same behaviors again as soon as the desire hit.  Doesn't matter whether she agreed with it at the time; I'm sure she thought she could manage that system through the same wishful thinking that convinced her that her shopping addiction was magically cured by a few counseling sessions. 

I wonder how much of this derives from different views of what spending is appropriate.  It sounds like you have tried to make a lot of allowances for her desire for more and better stuff.  But depending on her background and personality, and on your own personality and responses, she may not feel comfortable speaking up and asking for stuff, and so she finds it easier to go along and comply on the surface and then do what she wants behind your back.*  Again:  this may or may not be true, but it's something to think about once things have settled down a bit -- not suggesting that anything is your "fault," just that it's always helpful to figure out if any of your behaviors or assumptions contributed to the situation.  Take it from someone who married a spendypants:  what you see as "reasonable" to spend money on may not at all resemble what your wife sees as reasonable -- or even necessary.  The most important step you can take for a successful long-term relationship is to understand and accept that her desires are just as valid and important as your own.  It's not about you making "concessions" or "giving" her something, because those terms assume at their heart that your vision is the correct one and you are ultimately in control.  It's about developing an approach that meets her needs as well as it does your own.  (Of course, all of this is based on her being able to act like a grown-up, say what she wants, and abide by the decision you guys make -- i.e., it comes after counseling, not before.  But it would help to see if any of the past discussions you guys have had or the decisions you made played into a pattern of you being the Decider and her being the passive Accepter). 

OK, I will stop talking now, with one final thought:  I hope that when you do engage with her, you can engage on the emotional part instead of the financial part.  I hope that you can say to her, directly, that it's not the money, it's the hiding -- that you can live with spending more money, but you cannot live with not being able to trust your partner.

*Example:  my DH is very, very good at shouting I AM MOST SERIOUSLY DISPLEASED without actually saying a single word.  I just don't pay a lot of credence to it (my mother laughs at the karma that paired me up with the only person I've ever met who is a better sulker than I am).  But someone who doesn't have that level of self-assurance -- like, say, our kids -- can be very cowed by that attitude and so will do anything to avoid bringing up even the slightest little request, just to avoid his disapproval.  And if your DW is acting like a rebellious teenager. . . . 

[Sandi_k]

@Laura33 covered a lot of what I was thinking/feeling, so I'll try to be brief. But I don't think you are dealing with YOUR role in this outcome.

- 95% of your furniture is used.
- She's driving a car with 200k miles on it.
- She is supposed to buy everything from the allowance, including household items and things for the kid.
- You micromanage a purchase of $300 or more.

I don't think you have ANY IDEA how expensive it is to be a woman in America today, with even a FRACTION of a desire to dress well, and to have stylish clothes or hair or home.

Guys have it easy: Docker khakis, a button-down shirt, and loafers. If you have to wear a suit occasionally, you can get by with the one you bought a decade ago for a funeral.

Women: hemlines change; color palettes change; for pants: pleated vs. non-pleated vs. cuffed vs. wide leg vs. narrowed at the ankle.

Cosmetics can be inexpensive, but most women I know use some. They expire and go bad. I have one of the most low-frill beauty and cosmetics routine I know, and I spend ~ $25 per month on personal products such as facial wash, scrub, razor blades, soap, shampoo, conditioner, detangler, root volumizer. Personal care items like tampons/pads/liners? $15 per month. For cosmetics, probably $200 per year. A single lipstick or eyeliner can be $20. The more expensive stuff holds its color better, doesn't clump when applied, and glides on more smoothly.

Hair: I spend $225 on a haircut, color and highlight every two months. Hair clips and bands break and get lost, so I replenish these at Xmas as stocking stuffers.

You have a daughter? Double this, if she's older than 12.

Shoes: I have a basic pair of black shoes I wear for work. $200 a pair, every two years.

I think you're an idiot by setting up the system that comforts YOU and suits YOU. Clearly it doesn't suit your wife. And claiming that he spending is "genetic?" Ludicrous. You are holding yourself out as some sort of budgeting and frugalistic messiah, put on this earth to mend her ways.

How does your wife spend time with her friends? I assume she has some, and if they want to do a spa day that she hadn't anticipated, you're expecting her to ASK YOU FOR PERMISSION to spend some of her own earned money.

How about you reverse it? Have a no budget budget?

My pay goes into MY checking account. DH puts his in HIS account. We have individual savings accounts, and a household savings account as well.

We both transfer a household amount monthly into the account that we use for household expenses.

I have MY credit card. DH has his. And we have one that is JOINT. The joint is paid every month from the joint account. If we have charged more than expected, we each transfer more to the joint checking account that month.

If DH spends $500 in aviation fuel for the month, he uses his card. If I have a spa day with my mom and sister, it goes on my card. We pay for own clothing as well.

My initial request when we set this up 20+ years ago, was that DH needed to fully fund his IRA every year, no arguments. So he would include $200 extra each month into the "household checking" for his Fidelity IRA. Once he bought his own company, the agreement morphed into "you need to fully fund your SEP-IRA every year." So when our accountant told us in February what DH could send to the SEP, he had two months before the April 15th deadline to get it done. So he does.

All of this to say: she's a grownup. She brings in a significant amount of the household income, and you're treating her as if she's a recalcitrant teenager, and only your financial priorities should be met. WHO CARES if she's spending an extra $200 per month? HOW DO YOU KNOW that you haven't just mis-estimated ACTUAL costs? Have you built in any inflationary factor, ever? Things cost more than they did 5 years ago - does your plan account for that?

I would ASK HER to do her preferred budget going forward. No lies, no evasions, no required justifications. If she wants a spa day 2x per year, BUDGET IT. It could be unbelievably revealing what she's spent the CCd dollars on. I'll be you're gonna hate every one of them, which is why you've forced her into hiding it.

Do better. Be better. Divorce will suck, it will be SO MUCH MORE expensive with two households, and your FIRE date will be absolutely imploded. Take the high road - it's also going to be the cheaper one, in the long run.

Best of luck.