Author Topic: Financial infidelity ... SOS  (Read 14421 times)

Malcat

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #100 on: November 19, 2020, 07:10:45 AM »
My view is getting personal, rather than practical now. But the more I see of "contemporary" marriage, the more convinced I am that traditional marriage got it right. If you are married, and you still think in terms of "my money" and "your money", you're setting yourself up to fail. Because a team doesn't have my goals which are funded through my money, and your goals which are funded through your money. It doesn't work like that in business, and it definitely doesn't work like that in marriage. There's no my money or her money, or my income or her income, or my desires, or her desires in our marriage.

I agree. I know it seems to work for many people, but I find separate finances in a marriage to be a strange thing. We allocate a certain amount of money each week to personal spending, and neither of us cares what the other spends it on, but the rest is 'our' money.
Ha! I completely agree with both of you. It helps that we each were FI when we wed, or more correctly, getting married made us FI, but I agree that separate finances, even for personal spending, is er...um...odd.

And @Sunder, what a thoughtful post. Welcome to the forum!

I personally don't understand totally separate finances in a marriage, but I'm big on respecting that individuals are different, and there are A LOT of aspects of A LOT of marriages that I don't understand.

However, I did and will *always* snort laugh when anyone invokes the past as a time when marriages were better.

Pretty much any and all research will indicate that on average, marriages are more love based now than they have ever been, and that's almost entirely because individuals can have financial autonomy.

Do a lot of marriages suck? Yep
Did a lot of marriages suck in the past despite lower divorce rates? You betcha

dcozad999

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #101 on: November 19, 2020, 10:06:43 AM »
My view is getting personal, rather than practical now. But the more I see of "contemporary" marriage, the more convinced I am that traditional marriage got it right. If you are married, and you still think in terms of "my money" and "your money", you're setting yourself up to fail. Because a team doesn't have my goals which are funded through my money, and your goals which are funded through your money. It doesn't work like that in business, and it definitely doesn't work like that in marriage. There's no my money or her money, or my income or her income, or my desires, or her desires in our marriage.

I agree. I know it seems to work for many people, but I find separate finances in a marriage to be a strange thing. We allocate a certain amount of money each week to personal spending, and neither of us cares what the other spends it on, but the rest is 'our' money.

If you are in a religion-based marriage and this is the approach you chose and you are happy with it, good for you. But to each their own. We don't regard ourselves as a team and staying together for life is not a goal, but one possible outcome. We are partnership of two equal individuals. So we vowed to take care of each other when necessary for as long as we are together. And I'll stick to that vow. I'm not going to let Mr Imma go hungry if I have money. But I'm not going to give up my individual needs and passions for the sake of "us" and I would also never ask Mr Imma to sacrifice things that are important to him. 7 years in, this approach still works. If at some point we decide to separate because we're on different paths, that doesn't mean we've failed.


Are there any financial benefits to being married in your country? For instance, in the US there are often tax benefits associated to being married. If religion isnít a factor, and their are no financial benefits to a legal union, then what is the point of being in a marriage? You can make the same commitment without a legal union, and it would be much easier to go your own separate way should you choose to do so. No judgment, just curious.

Malcat

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #102 on: November 19, 2020, 11:12:38 AM »
My view is getting personal, rather than practical now. But the more I see of "contemporary" marriage, the more convinced I am that traditional marriage got it right. If you are married, and you still think in terms of "my money" and "your money", you're setting yourself up to fail. Because a team doesn't have my goals which are funded through my money, and your goals which are funded through your money. It doesn't work like that in business, and it definitely doesn't work like that in marriage. There's no my money or her money, or my income or her income, or my desires, or her desires in our marriage.

I agree. I know it seems to work for many people, but I find separate finances in a marriage to be a strange thing. We allocate a certain amount of money each week to personal spending, and neither of us cares what the other spends it on, but the rest is 'our' money.

If you are in a religion-based marriage and this is the approach you chose and you are happy with it, good for you. But to each their own. We don't regard ourselves as a team and staying together for life is not a goal, but one possible outcome. We are partnership of two equal individuals. So we vowed to take care of each other when necessary for as long as we are together. And I'll stick to that vow. I'm not going to let Mr Imma go hungry if I have money. But I'm not going to give up my individual needs and passions for the sake of "us" and I would also never ask Mr Imma to sacrifice things that are important to him. 7 years in, this approach still works. If at some point we decide to separate because we're on different paths, that doesn't mean we've failed.


Are there any financial benefits to being married in your country? For instance, in the US there are often tax benefits associated to being married. If religion isnít a factor, and their are no financial benefits to a legal union, then what is the point of being in a marriage? You can make the same commitment without a legal union, and it would be much easier to go your own separate way should you choose to do so. No judgment, just curious.

Almost no one I know gets married for religious or financial reasons. Those people get married because they want to get married. It's not usually a rational or logical decision, it's a social norm.

Imma

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #103 on: November 19, 2020, 11:33:19 AM »
My view is getting personal, rather than practical now. But the more I see of "contemporary" marriage, the more convinced I am that traditional marriage got it right. If you are married, and you still think in terms of "my money" and "your money", you're setting yourself up to fail. Because a team doesn't have my goals which are funded through my money, and your goals which are funded through your money. It doesn't work like that in business, and it definitely doesn't work like that in marriage. There's no my money or her money, or my income or her income, or my desires, or her desires in our marriage.

I agree. I know it seems to work for many people, but I find separate finances in a marriage to be a strange thing. We allocate a certain amount of money each week to personal spending, and neither of us cares what the other spends it on, but the rest is 'our' money.

If you are in a religion-based marriage and this is the approach you chose and you are happy with it, good for you. But to each their own. We don't regard ourselves as a team and staying together for life is not a goal, but one possible outcome. We are partnership of two equal individuals. So we vowed to take care of each other when necessary for as long as we are together. And I'll stick to that vow. I'm not going to let Mr Imma go hungry if I have money. But I'm not going to give up my individual needs and passions for the sake of "us" and I would also never ask Mr Imma to sacrifice things that are important to him. 7 years in, this approach still works. If at some point we decide to separate because we're on different paths, that doesn't mean we've failed.


Are there any financial benefits to being married in your country? For instance, in the US there are often tax benefits associated to being married. If religion isnít a factor, and their are no financial benefits to a legal union, then what is the point of being in a marriage? You can make the same commitment without a legal union, and it would be much easier to go your own separate way should you choose to do so. No judgment, just curious.

No, there are no tax benefits. That would actually probably violate our constitution as it would discriminate based on marital status.

We aren't technically married either but chose a legal partnership. But that sounds unfamiliar to people in the US. It's basically the same thing. We did it for the following reasons:
- Being able to file taxes jointly
- Inheritance tax  (a spouse or partner has a much bigger tax-free allowance) and spousal pension benefits
- In case of medical emergency abroad, in many countries a boyfriend/girlfriend has less to say than biological but estranged family. Our relatives hold different values and we don't trust them to make life-or-death decisions for us.

We are very romantic people, aren't we! We have both signed away our right to alimony in case we split up. Our parents both had extremely traditional marriages and they both ended up divorced too. We've had 7 happy years now and I'm pretty sure that's more than our parents had together. We're certainly not planning to quit this the second it gets difficult (not at all, we've already been through a lot together) but if some day we find out we're heading in different directions, so be it.

I have to say in my part of Europe marriage is no longer a social norm. Half of the kids are born out of wedlock. We're from a traditional background so we know a lot of people our age who are married, big white dress and everything, but in more urban/educated communities like where we live now I think most people don't get married anymore. But we've seen it go wrong several times and I don't want to risk that (I have a law degree, I don't like risks).  I have a cousin who lived with a man and they had a child, and she had moved in with him. When he passed suddenly she was left empty-handed and literally on the street when his heirs kicked her out.

Dave1442397

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #104 on: November 19, 2020, 01:12:14 PM »
My view is getting personal, rather than practical now. But the more I see of "contemporary" marriage, the more convinced I am that traditional marriage got it right. If you are married, and you still think in terms of "my money" and "your money", you're setting yourself up to fail. Because a team doesn't have my goals which are funded through my money, and your goals which are funded through your money. It doesn't work like that in business, and it definitely doesn't work like that in marriage. There's no my money or her money, or my income or her income, or my desires, or her desires in our marriage.

I agree. I know it seems to work for many people, but I find separate finances in a marriage to be a strange thing. We allocate a certain amount of money each week to personal spending, and neither of us cares what the other spends it on, but the rest is 'our' money.
Ha! I completely agree with both of you. It helps that we each were FI when we wed, or more correctly, getting married made us FI, but I agree that separate finances, even for personal spending, is er...um...odd.

And @Sunder, what a thoughtful post. Welcome to the forum!

By personal spending, I don't mean things like clothes, makeup, haircuts, etc. We just set aside a set amount each week that can be used for anything at all, and neither of us cares what the other does with it. In my case, most of it goes to books (Suntup Press and Centipede Press, you're killing me!) and bike stuff. I have no idea what my wife does with hers :)

Dave1442397

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #105 on: November 19, 2020, 01:18:08 PM »
My view is getting personal, rather than practical now. But the more I see of "contemporary" marriage, the more convinced I am that traditional marriage got it right. If you are married, and you still think in terms of "my money" and "your money", you're setting yourself up to fail. Because a team doesn't have my goals which are funded through my money, and your goals which are funded through your money. It doesn't work like that in business, and it definitely doesn't work like that in marriage. There's no my money or her money, or my income or her income, or my desires, or her desires in our marriage.

I agree. I know it seems to work for many people, but I find separate finances in a marriage to be a strange thing. We allocate a certain amount of money each week to personal spending, and neither of us cares what the other spends it on, but the rest is 'our' money.

If you are in a religion-based marriage and this is the approach you chose and you are happy with it, good for you. But to each their own. We don't regard ourselves as a team and staying together for life is not a goal, but one possible outcome. We are partnership of two equal individuals. So we vowed to take care of each other when necessary for as long as we are together. And I'll stick to that vow. I'm not going to let Mr Imma go hungry if I have money. But I'm not going to give up my individual needs and passions for the sake of "us" and I would also never ask Mr Imma to sacrifice things that are important to him. 7 years in, this approach still works. If at some point we decide to separate because we're on different paths, that doesn't mean we've failed.

I'm an atheist, so religion has no bearing on it for me. I can definitely see your point of view, and whatever works for you is great. We also don't expect each other to give up our individuality. You certainly won't catch my wife out doing 100-mile bike rides, or find me going out to Yelp Elite dining events!

MoseyingAlong

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #106 on: November 19, 2020, 01:38:11 PM »

No, there are no tax benefits. That would actually probably violate our constitution as it would discriminate based on marital status.

We aren't technically married either but chose a legal partnership. But that sounds unfamiliar to people in the US. It's basically the same thing. We did it for the following reasons:
- Being able to file taxes jointly
- Inheritance tax  (a spouse or partner has a much bigger tax-free allowance) and spousal pension benefits
...

Hi, @Imma
I'm a little confused by your post and hope you'd be willing to explain more.

You wrote that there are no tax benefits but then that you are able to file jointly. What benefit does filing jointly offer?
Also the bigger inheritance tax-free allowance sounds like a benefit. So wondering why you say there are no tax benefits?

Personally I'm in the US and wish there were no tax implications to marriage. I'd support civil unions for anybody, whether or not they are having sex. I've know siblings who lived together and supported each other throughout their lives and don't see why they shouldn't qualify for civil unions as compared to a couple who met a few months ago and are having sex. Doesn't make sense to me.
Historical context when a marriage theoretically was a way to raise kids, sure.  Marriage today...not so much.

Psychstache

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #107 on: November 19, 2020, 02:09:12 PM »
My view is getting personal, rather than practical now. But the more I see of "contemporary" marriage, the more convinced I am that traditional marriage got it right. If you are married, and you still think in terms of "my money" and "your money", you're setting yourself up to fail. Because a team doesn't have my goals which are funded through my money, and your goals which are funded through your money. It doesn't work like that in business, and it definitely doesn't work like that in marriage. There's no my money or her money, or my income or her income, or my desires, or her desires in our marriage.

I agree. I know it seems to work for many people, but I find separate finances in a marriage to be a strange thing. We allocate a certain amount of money each week to personal spending, and neither of us cares what the other spends it on, but the rest is 'our' money.
Ha! I completely agree with both of you. It helps that we each were FI when we wed, or more correctly, getting married made us FI, but I agree that separate finances, even for personal spending, is er...um...odd.

And @Sunder, what a thoughtful post. Welcome to the forum!

I personally don't understand totally separate finances in a marriage, but I'm big on respecting that individuals are different, and there are A LOT of aspects of A LOT of marriages that I don't understand.

However, I did and will *always* snort laugh when anyone invokes the past as a time when marriages were better.

Pretty much any and all research will indicate that on average, marriages are more love based now than they have ever been, and that's almost entirely because individuals can have financial autonomy.

Do a lot of marriages suck? Yep
Did a lot of marriages suck in the past despite lower divorce rates? You betcha

Obviously, the ways of thinking and living in the generations before me are out of date and ill-informed. The ways of thinking and living in the generations after me are ridiculous and immature.

Now, stop being a stick in the mud and/or get off my lawn, depending on your age relative to mine. :)

Imma

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #108 on: November 19, 2020, 04:44:47 PM »

No, there are no tax benefits. That would actually probably violate our constitution as it would discriminate based on marital status.

We aren't technically married either but chose a legal partnership. But that sounds unfamiliar to people in the US. It's basically the same thing. We did it for the following reasons:
- Being able to file taxes jointly
- Inheritance tax  (a spouse or partner has a much bigger tax-free allowance) and spousal pension benefits
...

Hi, @Imma
I'm a little confused by your post and hope you'd be willing to explain more.

You wrote that there are no tax benefits but then that you are able to file jointly. What benefit does filing jointly offer?
Also the bigger inheritance tax-free allowance sounds like a benefit. So wondering why you say there are no tax benefits?

Personally I'm in the US and wish there were no tax implications to marriage. I'd support civil unions for anybody, whether or not they are having sex. I've know siblings who lived together and supported each other throughout their lives and don't see why they shouldn't qualify for civil unions as compared to a couple who met a few months ago and are having sex. Doesn't make sense to me.
Historical context when a marriage theoretically was a way to raise kids, sure.  Marriage today...not so much.

With "no tax benefits" I meant, there's no such thing as a marriage tax credit or things like that, I know those exist in some places. It's true that being able to file jointly is a tax benefit in itself - we can deduct certain costs from the income where it would have the most impact. Being able to file taxes jointly is not reserved to couples - in certain cases adult siblings or a parent living with an adult child over 27 can also qualify, if none of them are married. I do agree with you that policy shouldn't focus on the idea of marriage, but instead should focus on supporting long-term family structures. For some people that means living with their siblings or sharing a life with a platonic partner. I don't see why those people don't deserve the legal protections that others have.

I was in hospital with a serious illness about 7 years ago and I was very scared that I'd become unconscious, because at that time it would have meant that my estranged father was going to have the right to make all medical decisions for me. He probably would have banned Mr. Imma from my bedside too. Thankfully I remained conscious and I recovered fully. I'd only been with Mr Imma for a short period of time then but I knew we'd have to make things official asap. In my country, next of kin is whoever you live with, but we didn't live together at the time & in other countries they only consult a spouse.

The inheritance tax is one aspect where a marriage or legal partnership is very important in my country. The tax-free allowance in that case is Ä650k and if you inherit more than that, there's a discounted rate of 10-20% - whereas the tax free allowance would be Ä2200 for a boyfriend/girlfriend or anyone else you are not related to, and the rest is taxed at 40%. As someone without children, it feels very unfair to me that eventually nearly half of our estate will go to taxes just because we don't have close blood relatives. It feels fair that spouses (or better, anyone that a person has chosen to spend their life with) get a good deal but I feel the discrepancy between those two is too big.

20957

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #109 on: November 21, 2020, 02:03:44 PM »
I guess I can imagine separate finances working if you have similar salaries but when that's not the case it seems like so much work to figure out who pays for what! And I would hate to buy into the idea that I should get less spending money than my husband because society values my skills less. How do you keep that idea of value from creeping into the marriage?

Imma

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #110 on: November 22, 2020, 06:43:37 AM »
I guess I can imagine separate finances working if you have similar salaries but when that's not the case it seems like so much work to figure out who pays for what! And I would hate to buy into the idea that I should get less spending money than my husband because society values my skills less. How do you keep that idea of value from creeping into the marriage?

In our case it's not a matter of "society values one person's skills less" but rather "we make different lifestyle choices". It helps that we both have few wants, so we both have a lot more money than we need and save/invest most of it. But these days I have a lot more leftover money and I don't feel particularly bad about it. I can imagine it's different when you both work very hard but one career just pays less than the other.

When we first got together, I was a student, Mr Imma worked an easy parttime job so he could focus on his art. My income was about half of his income. When he moved in with me he started paying half of the bills which felt fair to me. It meant my costs halved and I didn't want to feel like he was subsidizing me by asking him to pay more than half, just because he earned more.

We both started earning more and more and earned roughly the same for years, but now I earn a lot more than him. Because he no longer qualifies for subsidized healthcare due to my income I put him on my employer-sponsored plan but that's the only thing I pay for him. It's his choice to take a simple job and work parttime, because art is his calling and his purpose in life. It's my choice to invest time and money in a well-paid career. But he is spending this weekend making art and I'm preparing for some mandatory professional development exams. He sees the sacrifices I make and to him it's not worth it.

MrMonkeyMustache

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #111 on: November 22, 2020, 04:08:11 PM »
Sorry for your situation, @pdxvandal  I went through a similar situation myself, and the betrayal of trust is really a hard blow. That said, I wouldn't be thinking divorce at this point.

My take is that this is obviously not a money problem from the point of view of coming up with a solution. First, the money is almost inconsequential considering your net worth. Second, there is no point in thinking how you can find a solution through constructing a different type of budgeting, and possibly following it up. She needs to figure out what her problem is, and she needs to come up with a solution that she thinks will fix this issue.

It will obviously be hammered out by the both of you and you will make sure that is reflects your goals and is something that you can support. Nonetheless, the big push towards a solution have to come from the person with the problem. Thinking about my own experience, had my wife done this, it would have shown a great deal of owning up to her own actions and a willingness to make our marriage work. It would probably have meant a whole lot more than any verbal apology. I therefore think, that if she manages to do this (with your and a counselor's help), it will go a long way towards reducing your bitterness that might otherwise keep lingering for years.

As many pointed out, increasing her spending by $500 would not be that costly, and would probably be worth it if it "fixes the problem". But, you don't know if this will actually do anything towards a solution. I wouldn't be surprised if the final solution would include more spending, but that doesn't mean that simply increasing the spending will get you to the solution. If that makes sense.

expatartist

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #112 on: November 22, 2020, 10:50:26 PM »
She needs to figure out what her problem is, and she needs to come up with a solution that she thinks will fix this issue.

It will obviously be hammered out by the both of you and you will make sure that is reflects your goals and is something that you can support. Nonetheless, the big push towards a solution have to come from the person with the problem.

+1 Valuable advice in many scenarios.

RamS

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #113 on: November 29, 2020, 06:05:10 PM »
So everything I'm saying is what I would do and what I/we have done. Only you can determine where your limits have been reached, but IMO if it is a shopping addiction, and she feels bad about it, and you love/care about her, then you could treat it as a health issue and solve it that way (it is solvable!). Now, you have to take care of your own health first but aside from that, remember the commitment you made to care for each other.   

We've been in a twenty year marriage and it's better than ever - it's amazing - but we've struggled with addiction issues on both sides and overcome them with the help of each other. I won't say it was easy going and things definitely came to a head and hitting rock bottom and all that stuff. But we came through it stronger together. One of the addictions was gambling so somewhat similar to your situation but there was little hiding since we shared a joint account - same with the other side - no hiding after the fact but still betrayal of trust repeatedly.  It was the very worst for about a year, bad for about three years, and going down hill for about five. But again, working through it is the best thing it could've happened.

I'm not saying this is true in your case but IF it is, if your wife is addicted to shopping, then you need to see it has her being a different person than the person you love. If she is able to overcome the addiction ("recover" if you prefer) then things will work out.  Look into dealing resources for dealing with addicts, from AA/Al Anon to other resources (whatever works for you, including Google) and you will see that things like relapses and slips are common and it takes multiple efforts for an addict to overcome/recover from their addiction but it is doable and many people have done it.  As others have said, only she can help herself. So she has to recognise she's an addict and want help, want to change, etc. It can be done is all I can see. We've not had the monkey on our back for more than a decade, and after a few years, it was as though we had never started (i.e., no cravings, etc.).

We talk about this all the time and it has made us more humble, grateful, etc. Our attitude has been "what does not kill you makes you stronger."

Good luck!

--Ram

cchrissyy

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #114 on: November 29, 2020, 06:58:52 PM »
@pdxvandal any update?

Dicey

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #115 on: November 30, 2020, 06:41:41 AM »
@pdxvandal any update?
Hmmm, no update since Nov. 2. I hope that's not a bad sign...

RetiredAt63

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #116 on: November 30, 2020, 08:36:08 AM »
@pdxvandal any update?
Hmmm, no update since Nov. 2. I hope that's not a bad sign...

He is posting, just not here, so he is still on the forums.

Dicey

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #117 on: November 30, 2020, 08:45:34 AM »
@pdxvandal any update?
Hmmm, no update since Nov. 2. I hope that's not a bad sign...

He is posting, just not here, so he is still on the forums.
Even worse, IMO. Starting a thread and leaving people hanging is...

lhamo

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #118 on: November 30, 2020, 09:17:12 AM »
@pdxvandal any update?
Hmmm, no update since Nov. 2. I hope that's not a bad sign...

He is posting, just not here, so he is still on the forums.
Even worse, IMO. Starting a thread and leaving people hanging is...

.... sometimes necessary when the topic deals with the behavior of another person.  pdxvandal didn't post about this sensitive issue for our entertainment.  let's try to be a bit more understanding.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #119 on: November 30, 2020, 10:15:38 PM »
It's really hard to sum these things up without being either not emotionally-charged enough to really get your predicament across, or too-charged - which it's clear people will respond to strongly & sometimes aggressively, without a sense of proportion considering that the feelings most likely to come out to anonymous strangers like anger, futility, despair are exactly the ones you're probably tamping down on hardest when dealing with the partner in person in order to be fair to them.

I completely understand the strength of the frustration in OPs posts, having grown up with an addict & dated people with addiction/ compulsion/ impulse control issues; frankly I was impressed by how even-handed the posts were. The fact that it's not gushing with spousal praise seemed to have less to do with their opinion of the spouse, more to do with portraying their own situation & experience, because they recognize they can only assuredly understand & control their own reactions, which is where the need for some evaluative distance comes in. If she does the work & makes herself transparent, or not, that's up to her. It's out of control, which is a horrible feeling when you believed you were co-steering a shared life.

It sucks. It's awful. I'm still relatively young & dumb & I don't have advice for what to do except this: to be compassionate with yourself, be forgiving of that crippling feeling of weakness people often wrestle with when feeling taken advantage of. You may both have work to do if you choose to tend the relationship, but that also doesn't erase the harm you experienced, you are not wrong to feel wounded. It's hard to hold space for both people to hurt; it will also make you kinder. Malcat above nails it as always; any breach of trust is requisite to love, & not only is it profoundly difficult to trust someone who was lying to or hiding things from you (hence the sensation of "lost respect" - that's not lost respect as a fellow human person, but lost respect as your partner specifically, because the high esteem of partner-respect must be mutual), but it hurts to know they didn't trust YOU enough to give you the truth, & that's only more hurtful the more you tried to be worthy of it.

You both deserve better lives than that lack of trust. However you each decide to build that better life, I wish you both success & much greater wellbeing in the near term.

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #120 on: November 30, 2020, 10:53:32 PM »
@pdxvandal any update?
Hmmm, no update since Nov. 2. I hope that's not a bad sign...

He is posting, just not here, so he is still on the forums.
Even worse, IMO. Starting a thread and leaving people hanging is...

.... sometimes necessary when the topic deals with the behavior of another person.  pdxvandal didn't post about this sensitive issue for our entertainment.  let's try to be a bit more understanding.
Hmmm, sorry if it seems I'm not being understanding. I guess I wouldn't start a thread asking for help and then ghost it. A lot of people, including your very wise self, have shared their time and personal experiences in response to the OP's queries. I'm sure no one who showed willingness to help was doing it for entertainment. I also do not believe anyone was asking for more sensitive details. It seemed more of a "Hey, how are you?"

Malcat

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #121 on: December 01, 2020, 05:50:18 AM »
@pdxvandal any update?
Hmmm, no update since Nov. 2. I hope that's not a bad sign...

He is posting, just not here, so he is still on the forums.
Even worse, IMO. Starting a thread and leaving people hanging is...

.... sometimes necessary when the topic deals with the behavior of another person.  pdxvandal didn't post about this sensitive issue for our entertainment.  let's try to be a bit more understanding.
Hmmm, sorry if it seems I'm not being understanding. I guess I wouldn't start a thread asking for help and then ghost it. A lot of people, including your very wise self, have shared their time and personal experiences in response to the OP's queries. I'm sure no one who showed willingness to help was doing it for entertainment. I also do not believe anyone was asking for more sensitive details. It seemed more of a "Hey, how are you?"

I personally completely understand why he doesn't want to come back to this thread, and I don't blame him at all. Having been there myself, I would not have been able to engage any further in a thread like this while I was still actively going through it.

I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but I've followed up with him and I admire how hard he's working. If his wife puts in the same effort, they've got a good chance.

If someone starts a thread in pain and then ghosts it, I give them the benefit of the doubt that it's because of their pain, not because they're a jerk.

Dicey

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #122 on: December 01, 2020, 03:31:50 PM »
@pdxvandal any update?
Hmmm, no update since Nov. 2. I hope that's not a bad sign...

He is posting, just not here, so he is still on the forums.
Even worse, IMO. Starting a thread and leaving people hanging is...

.... sometimes necessary when the topic deals with the behavior of another person.  pdxvandal didn't post about this sensitive issue for our entertainment.  let's try to be a bit more understanding.
Hmmm, sorry if it seems I'm not being understanding. I guess I wouldn't start a thread asking for help and then ghost it. A lot of people, including your very wise self, have shared their time and personal experiences in response to the OP's queries. I'm sure no one who showed willingness to help was doing it for entertainment. I also do not believe anyone was asking for more sensitive details. It seemed more of a "Hey, how are you?"

I personally completely understand why he doesn't want to come back to this thread, and I don't blame him at all. Having been there myself, I would not have been able to engage any further in a thread like this while I was still actively going through it.

I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but I've followed up with him and I admire how hard he's working. If his wife puts in the same effort, they've got a good chance.

If someone starts a thread in pain and then ghosts it, I give them the benefit of the doubt that it's because of their pain, not because they're a jerk.
Malcat, you and lhamo are two of the voices I respect most on this forum. When I saw your comment early this morning, I was kind of stunned. I've been ruminating on it all day. I have come to understand I have a kind of vested interest in pdxvandal's success. Here is what I wrote on page one of this thread:

...My brother was in a similar situation with his first wife. He couldn't stand the suspense of the next debt bomb he was going to discover. Two wives later, he sometimes wishes he'd figured out a way to resolve the situation with his first wife. It would have cost him a lot less money and emotional angst in the long run. In hindsight, it wasn't as big a problem as it felt like at the time. Don't get me wrong, it is a hell of a betrayal, but throwing some time and cash for counseling into the motivation for her behavior might be the most mustachian choice in the long run.

Best wishes to you.
My brother is currently in an even worse situation with wife #3. I am the only family member who knows what is currently going on with them. When his life goes to shit, he calls me. I do my best to listen and I always, always root for him, because he is a 100% decent guy. However, sometimes the calls stop and I worry that something terrible has happened.   

I want my brother to succeed with all my heart. Because of his experience, I hope pdxvandal will find a successful solution to his dilemma as well. I have been checking this thread frequently for updates. I am truly rooting for him. Honestly, just an "I'm still here, folks" would have been greatly appreciated. I don't expect him to have things figured out yet, I would just like to know he's okay and that random internet strangers like me wish him well. I agree that some of the responses here were way too harsh. I didn't think mine was, and I did not call him a jerk.

Am I transferring my concerns for my brother to someone else? Perhaps. Isn't the point of this forum to help others in their life's journey? Share experiences? It's certainly what motivates me. And I have learned a hell of a lot from your incisive wisdom, for which I am most grateful. The fact that you contacted pdx privately touched my heart. Thank you for reaching out to him. I am glad to hear that he's working hard and you believe he's (hopefully they've) got a chance.

lhamo

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #123 on: December 01, 2020, 05:05:38 PM »
I understand being invested in the outcome.  Anybody remember how much time and energy I poured into in a certain citrus flavored personality?

I wrote what I did in this case because  at one time my life blew up spectacularly on this very forum, in large part because I had been too public about private matters.  So when people suddenly go silent I kind of assume there is stuff going on in private that they are no longer in a position to comment publicly about.


pdxvandal

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #124 on: December 01, 2020, 07:51:37 PM »
I'm still here, folks. Just been really busy with job interviews, child-rearing, pulling hamstrings from all the cartwheels over Trump's loss, listening to Joe Rogan podcasts and life in general.

Anyway, Malcat's been hired as my official spokesperson, so you'll have to go through her for most updates.

But as she said, we're working on it, been to a few couples therapy sessions, by which another financial psychological counselor was referred to her, to whom she has spoken twice so far and more sessions on the way.

So, we're working on it, just gonna take time. Baby steps right now. Appreciate your support.

Zamboni

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #125 on: December 30, 2020, 05:05:08 AM »
Thank you for following up, OP, and glad to hear you and your wife and trying to work through things.

Low key F 2020, Cheers to 2021!

Cassie

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #126 on: December 31, 2020, 08:56:58 AM »
Good luck!!

AMandM

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Re: Financial infidelity ... SOS
« Reply #127 on: December 31, 2020, 11:59:09 AM »
So happy to read the good news of progress, OP!  I am rooting for the both of you!