I think the two of you should sit down and decide independently where you want to be 5, 10, 20 years and then discuss.
Agreed. We do seem to agree on most big things, and he does love the idea of being financially independent, so he can do entrepreneurial type software stuff. A problem with the 5, 10, 20 year thing is that
I don't even know where I want to be! There are some differences that are starting to emerge, though. I would love to be car free (with a zip car subscription and a bike or three), and he doesn't like bike riding (I think it's because he hasn't ridden one suited for his tall frame. He's wanting to give biking a chance again, but we haven't had an opportunity). I don't really find the idea of living in California appealing; it's his dream living location. Those are sort of the two biggest; most things we agree on.
He doesn't sound that far gone to me, just maybe like he doesn't understand personal finance. Teach him and give him a chance to apply it before you cut him off.
That's what I'm hoping :)
The debate of "nature vs nurture" will never end - but IMO, who you are is largely based on your genes.
I must have some damn fine genes, then! I've got one sibling, a sister, and if anything she's more frugal than I am. It's actually something we bond over, because (not to sound emo), most of the world just doesn't understand. I can't stand her because she's annoying as heck, but we love each other anyway :)
WARNING: He will NOT be giving it up when you move in together. He will hide it. He will continue to smoke it. He knows you don't like him using it now, yet he continues to smoke it.
This is something I'm not worried about, for a couple of reasons. We have talked (... and talked, and talked, and talked) about our differing opinions towards weed. Strangely, he didn't start smoking until he was... 25? 26? And then it became a daily habit. It's now how he socializes with his friends, and since I don't want to come between him and the small, close knit group of friends I'm sort of tolerating his use now. The plan is for him to move up here. Once that happens, he won't have a supplier any more, and he'll be able to make new friendships that don't center around drugs. I think the cultural/geographical change will make quitting easy, especially since knows that the stakes are high. And if he does start to smoke again in secret... well, that makes my decision making easy, at least. We are both very committed to being open, honest, and communicative, so I'm not too worried about him smoking in secret.
From the few words you typed, it's not clear to me if you were completely clear on the issue of his debt, or if you merely 'talked' about what you have and what he has, and left it at that....if you have already told him (without 'dropping hints' but clear-as-day) that you cannot accept his debt levels and supporting his roommate's charity case, yet he still didn't bother to even start anything over the past 6 months, then be forewarned that he will not appreciably be any different 1, 5, 10, 20 years from now.
To be honest, I didn't go into a ton of specifics about my situation. And I didn't ask for a ton of specifics about his, just general guesses. I think we should sit down again and talk straight numbers. On the one hand I feel like it's invasive (after all, it's not like I'm his wife), but on the other hand it's important. The other day he finally talked to his roommate, and is claiming that the roommate will be able to start paying him back soon... we'll see how that goes.
I was reading along thinking it wasn't that big a deal until you got to the weed smoking point. If he's 25 and still smoking, walk away unless you want to be stuck with someone who is going to be apathetic towards everything in their life.
27, actually :/ But, as noted above, he was late to the smoking game. He is very aware that if he doesn't quit when we live together, I will end the relationship.
You are obviously a very ambitious and focused woman. Don't let someone who's not on the same path as you bring you down.
When it comes to career stuff, he's actually a far better worker than I am; we're in the same field, so it's not just that he's able to fool me by saying fancy sounding bullshit like, "today my boss complimented me for implementing HTML5 in the parameter field of ASP, for faster asynchronous AJAX!"
But it is something I'm still a bit worried about.
I'm speaking from personal experience...
Wow, thanks for sharing. If things end up not working out, here's hoping I get as lucky in my future relationships as you :) I definitely know that, if I end up in a different relationship, it will
not be with someone who uses drugs. I didn't quite realize the extent of my feelings about it until I became involved with someone who is.
1. shared values
2. common background
3. no addiction issues
4. shared goals
5. sense of fun when together
6. positive reinforcement and support for each other
We certainly don't have number 2, and number 3 is an issue at the moment. He certainly is very supportive; for example, back when I was still in college, there was a class I had failed, and was retaking. It was going to be just as challenging the second time around, so my boyfriend taught himself the material, and tutored me for hours every week (did I mention I love how smart he is?). I ended up getting one of the highest grades in the notoriously difficult class. When I spent a couple months unemployed this summer he tutored me again, this time for technical interview questions. I partially credit my current job to that.
How long until it is no longer a long-distance thing? If it is a while still or if you are giving up your life and going there, I would really try to look at your relationship clearly and try to make the best decision you can. Going with your gut is a good idea...
That's the tough part. Originally, we were planning on moving in together this upcoming July. So about 9 months. Unfortunately, mostly because of the deteriorating health of his now-bedridden mother (he helps out his father with her care multiple times a week), we are now less sure on when would be a good time for him to move. Additionally, he wants to gain a few more responsibilities at work so he can get a better job when he moves out here; he's currently extremely technically competent, but a big missing section from his resume is leadership, and team work. The company he's working for has hinted at hiring a subordinate for him, and if that can happen, it would really help his job search when he moves.
Although I'm understanding about the lengthened time frame, I of course wish it was shorter so that we could get around to living together again (we spent three months together once, while I was on a complicated 3 month break from school. It was great, but not really "real life" since I was just doing some light studying, living off of savings, relaxing, and being a bit of a 50's housewife) to determine compatibility. If we end up waiting a year to live together, and then spend a year testing things out I'll be 26. Which isn't
that old... but still. Annoying to start from the drawing board again.
1. make sure what he says and what he does match up. Some people are great of creating an illusion of who they are, but don't actually act consistently with this image when you stop and analyse it..
2. make sure how he treats you is at least as good as and preferably better than others. Some people are "great people" to their friends but much harder (or abusive) to their partners.
Yeah, I'm a bit worried about the whole saying vs doing thing. It's something that I've decided to start paying attention to.
As for how he treats me, he treats me very well. We're disgustingly adorable together; at the airport we're always able to get a gate pass (basically, it's a pass that allows a non-flying person to go past security), and we once got free cake at a restaurant because we were so cute together. Because of our alternative bedroom activities we are both
very aware of power dynamics, and I'm not worried about accidentally being gaslit into an abusive relationship.
I have wondered what I would do if I were in love with someone that I couldn't live without, but just didn't have their act together (and might never)*. My conclusion was perpetual dating-only with separate homes and separate finances. No way would I sign a legal contract with social and financial consequences (marriage) with someone whose habitual irresponsibility could drag me down too.
Ugh, I could never do that. I would just end the relationship, rather than have separate lives. I think that life works out best when you have two people strongly bound together, working towards shared goals, and completely sharing their lives. My boyfriend agrees; "partnership" and "being a team" are very important to him.
And the problems you cited (financial differences, drug use) will guarantee you will divorce or break up. And the drug use would open you up to legal liability as well. If the police discover drugs in the house, you are as much on the hook as he is. And forget any kind of security clearance or job requiring any kind of background investigation (teacher, coach, government work, etc.), should that matter to you.
Yeah, definitely some of the reasons I'm so against drugs. He knows that under
no circumstances are drugs to enter the place I live. As for jobs, he works in software, and they are notoriously lax on drug testing. Unlike his roommate; one of the reasons he's underemployed is because he got fired from a school he was working at, because someone snitched that he smoked weed. Brilliant of him, right?
I suppose one of the things that troubles me most is that my best friend and current roommate thinks that if we get married, we would get divorced in two years. It's possibly because her perception is biased; hasn't really had an opportunity to see us together much, and when I have relationship problems she's the one I talk to.
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Thank you everybody for the advice so far, both for the optimistic comments, and the pessimistic ones. I look forward to more opinions/personal experiences, if anybody else has more to share. So far I'm thinking that when we see each other next we will have a good discussion about personal finance, and then we'll see where it goes from there. If things improve, hurrah. If it looks like he can't do something like make lifestyle changes that allow him to pay off half his debt in the next six months... well, that's pretty indicative of things to come, and there will be some tough choices to make.