The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: DeltaBond on June 16, 2016, 05:26:34 AM
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As you look on these forums, not many folks use their real name - makes sense to me, that's how the net is kept safe in my opinion. Not everyone feels that way, though, I understand that. Likewise, though, on facebook, I have never used my real name, ever ever. The past few years I've been using an account that I set up just to monitor the news feeds I like, the pages set up for my part of town, and only 2 friends are on there that I don't really keep up with any other way.
So, just as always, I had a fake name, like many other facebook users. Yesterday I got a notification that if I didn't upload my I.D. proving that was my name OR in order to show I'm a real person and have the system change my name after looking at my I.D., my account would be locked. I read up on it, and it seems facebook owners want to keep the net safe and have everyone using their real name - so anyone who needs to can block you. To keep people from being stalked or harassed. I personally had a fake name so I wouldn't be stalked or harassed. Since I'm not a troll, I would be surprised if someone flagged my account. The articles I read about it said that if you didn't have a normal western sounding name, you'd be flagged, lol, in other words, investigated and forced to either hand over your I.D. or you don't get to use that account anymore. They are into data mining now, according to the articles I read.
So, how do you all feel about that? Are YOU cool using your real name and info on there?
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Their site their rules. I'm pretty sure there's something about using your real name in the TOS. To me, this sounds more like trying to prevent spam.
If you're just using it to keep up with news feeds you like, try Twitter. Otherwise, just change it to something plausible but generic. Eric Williams, Erin Banfield, Mark Watkins ... you get the idea.
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Their site their rules, yeah, I get that, it just seems silly. Twitter is ok, but it doesn't have as much on it. Funny, the name I was using wasn't really that far off from a normal name. And I see a lot of folks on there with fake names, I guess they'll get the flag soon enough.
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From what I've read, studies suggest people are less likely to troll using their real names. In many successful online communities (like this one) the trolling is kept at bay by an active set of moderators. Community moderation doesn't scale well beyond a certain point, and hiring people reviewing complaints about offensive content costs facebook a non-trivial amount of money and opens them up to all sorts of complaints about bias.
I suspect if facebook were asked to justify their policy they'd point to this sort of thing and say that they're trying to keep discourse more civil than it otherwise would be. However, I'm sure increasing the value of their business for advertising and data mining plays a role as well.
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Data mining was mentioned in all of the articles I read about it. Its funny, in our country these days its common for people to just say something out loud as if it were true (just watch the news on any given day) and they tend to get away with it. I remember when the advice used to be "don't ever use your real name on the internet". Now these companies who are making loads of money on data mining are trying to squash that advice... "No, no, its safer if you just go ahead and publish your personal info, so we don't have to do that for you."
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It's up to you how much information you share with Facebook. Mine is mostly used to keep in touch with family and friends (baby showers, wedding events, planning get togethers, etc...). You can make your profile unsearchable by others so they can't find you when they search as well.
I've never been harassed on Facebook, personally, and have had mostly good experiences using it, sans a couple of my family members being complainy pants on it. (See the forum thread 'overheard on Facebook')
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I think I should also clarify that I definitely do NOT share personal monetary information on Facebook, which I think is the reason for so much anonymity on this forum.
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I also recommend Twitter if you just want to keep up-to-date with newsfeeds. I have a love-hate relationship with Facebook. There's a lot of "neediness" on it and it's a huge time suck. But, I must admit that when I don't use it I'm out of the loop on family news.
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That's crazy! If you google my name, the only thing you'll find is professional information. That's how I want it. For this reason, on facebook I use my first name and middle name. So far no complaints from FB. Many of my friends in the same profession as myself also don't use their last name for privacy reasons. If it came down to use-your-real-name-or-leave, I'd leave. I really have found that it's very much to my advantage to only have professional information easily searchable on the internet.
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I'm using my real name here (not so bad), Reddit (VERY BAD!) and if I ever decide to use Twitter, my handle's syednaeemul too (yikes did a Google search and the first image result is me!). Reasons why I use my real name/presence:
- It keeps me from writing inflammatory stuff (I hope!)
- Easier to remember one username across all platforms
- Doubt I'll become famous / infamous, so it should be harmless, right?
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My spouse and I left our normal facebook accounts and just waited, just to see who all was human enough to communicate with us otherwise... and it was alarming. I feel now that if that's the only way someone wants to talk with me, then they just won't be talking with me. That's just not what I use FB for now... keeping up with actual friends on there was more detrimental to our friendship than just not talking as often. I enjoy telling people "I'm not on facebook"... because by their definition, I am not.
So, I just messaged the "Facebook Team" back and asked if I could continue to use my pseudonym, as I use it due to past harassment. They required an attachment with the message, ya know, for the picture of your I.D.... I got a response and they said they need to confirm my identity with an I.D. I responded again with a much simpler, "This is a pseudonym, may I please continue to use it for reasons mentioned previously?" I'm suspecting that will be denied, I just thought I'd ask just to see what happens. I already started up a new account and got back into my local news groups, so I'm expecting to just deactivate that account.
I read that a mayor in Florida got her account locked because her last name was "Help". She got on the news and then FB apologized, lol. They aren't very slick at data mining. I don't think much comes up if you google my real name, and that's now I prefer it. My love/hate relationship is with the internet, not just FB.
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I shut down my Facebook account a few years ago due to privacy concerns. If that's the only way people want to communicate with me, then f 'em.
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I wonder if they changed their rules recently....My husband and I used to be on FB with our real names, but we both work in jobs where we wouldn't want past or current clients being able to find us on social media, so we both changed our last names to a mutual made up one on our FB accounts. No issues. And recently, a co-worker had the exact issue of a client looking her up on FB, so she also changed her last name to something ridiculous like "Mcgingerprince" because she might love one of the royals... I wonder if it has more to do with opening a new account under a false name, instead of making a change on your existing account.
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It began in 2014 when they wanted to make more money in the data mining - I've been reading up. A lot of people in the LGBT community lost their accounts and raised hell over it. FB seemed to want to team up with Google for data purposes, and its no small amount in profit.
I just signed up a new account with a different email address that has my real name, but on the site I chose a fake name... but a more realistic one. No problems. I skipped the phone number step easily.
I imagine moer and more people will be affected, though, and overall, they might also just do a blanket requirement for all users across the board to provide and I.D. to keep using their accounts, who knows.
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I have my Facebook settings at maximum privacy and only accept friend requests from people I know. If any of those people behave inappropriately (this has only happened once), I block them. So far, so good.
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I have never participated in FB for any number of reasons that all seem good & valid to me.
This merely adds to the pile.
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Yeah, their public explaination for it was to make it more safe... but its just a statement to seem like they care about their users. And no, there's not much of a reason to use it. There isn't a public news source for my part of the city, and that's all I use it for. I'll make endless accounts just to be able to keep up with what type of development is coming my way... until there is another source somewhere.
I do see a lot of grandparents at work using it to keep up with their grandchildren. I'd hate to see them booted off, but I bet they'd find another way if FB wasn't an option. For now its easy, I guess.
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Wife and I have used fake names for FB for almost 10 years now. I have multiple friends with fake FB names... some of whom have been "caught" and required to ID themselves or drop out, some of whom have been around for years and not been caught.
I don't know what the formula is... I don't post much in public FB forums... so maybe it is manual flagging.
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I use a fake but realistic name. I use it to follow people/things I'm interested in but I don't really have any friends there and my IRL friends don't use it at all.
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I have my Facebook settings at maximum privacy and only accept friend requests from people I know. If any of those people behave inappropriately (this has only happened once), I block them. So far, so good.
This has worked well for me -- I use my Facebook entirely to either post pictures of the grandkids for my mom and the inlaws, or keep up with work colleagues. My Facebook doesn't come up when you google my name, you can't see anything but my banner and profile picture if you search on Facebook, and if I don't know you directly I ignore your request.
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So it's a new side-hustle opportunity; make fake ID documents for facebookers.
It' not against the law (I think) to make a fake utility bill.
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If you're not paying for it and the site's making money, you're not the customer. You are the product.
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Interesting how many people here use or know people who use fake names on facebook. That's a much higher rate than I would have expected. I have only a couple friends who use slightly modified names on facebook. Interestingly, one of my good friends from elementary and middle school grew up to start her own hip-hop recording studio. She has a stage name, which is also what she used on facebook for years. When she first friended me, it actually took me awhile to accept because I didn't recognize the name at all and her photo wasn't really useful for ID either, but it said we had tons of mutual friends so I still kept her in the queue. Anyway, a couple years ago, she got flagged by facebook for not using her legal name, and I remember her being really upset because to her, this is her real name and the one she uses in person with all her current friends. She had to change her facebook name to her legal name, but now she's back to her stage name as her first name anyway, so I guess she eventually got around it.
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I use a shortened version of my name. My privacy settings are literally set to no one but me, since I don't use the account to keep in touch with family. I use it solely to access discounts only available on company Facebook pages, etc., and to complain to our cable company when there is an outage (yes, we still have cable. Discontinuing it would lead to divorce I think - the mister wants his cable). I have occasionally been denied the discounts because my friend list isn't long enough. : p If they demand ID, I'll just shut it down. No way I'm giving any more info to Facebook. My son has already shut his account down - he just got tired of it.
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If y'all think being "googled" is the worst thing to look out for, go take a look at all the nice doxxing sites out there.
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If y'all think being "googled" is the worst thing to look out for, go take a look at all the nice doxxing sites out there.
Dude, I work for the Government. So not only to the Chinese know basically every teeny little thing about me and everyone I've ever loved, but my name, position, parts of my address and my salary information are public information and available not only on Google but in the Congressional Record.
On the other hand, I just posted pictures of my nasty peeling sunburn and a buzzfeed article about why having a Biryani is better than having a boyfriend (which my husband agrees with). I'd really rather not discuss my lack of suncreen or feelings about Indian food in my next job interview.
Privacy is a relative thing.
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I use my real name on Facebook, have a very small friends list (68 today) consisting solely of family and people I have actual relationships with, and utilize privacy settings. I've never been stalked or harassed on FB, and I'm honestly not sure how it could even happen if you just use the tools they give you. You know there are features to block people, and you can limit who's able to message you, right? I also am just not the type of person to post really personal, private things online, anonymously or otherwise.
I think there's a certain amount of paranoia when it comes to Facebook, and it seems kind of ridiculous to me. I mean, lets say someone finds my profile, with my real name. They get to look at my hiking and travel pictures, see a few posts about my cat's weight loss goals, and read some interesting articles I linked to. What can a person possibly do with that information?
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It's up to you how much information you share with Facebook.
That sounds like something Facebook itself would say. How about sharing your real name or not? That doesn't seem to be much of an option.
In truth, they are one of many Big Data companies with an insatiable appetite for all of your life details. Facebook trackers are installed on almost all major websites, so they know what sites you visit and what you read and look at.
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-is-how-facebook-is-tracking-your-internet-activity-2012-9?op=1
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Yesterday I got a notification that if I didn't upload my I.D. proving that was my name OR in order to show I'm a real person and have the system change my name after looking at my I.D., my account would be locked.
You could bookmark the Facebook organizational pages that interest you. Then tell your two friends know that you will be opening another account and sending them a friend request.
Let Facebook lock your old account. Your bookmarked pages will work with the new account.
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I didn't have a problem using my real name on there. When the government breach with OPM happened I was way more concerned about that.
I don't like ads, targeted or not, so I have ad blockers.
The reason I only lasted 2 years on FB is because there were a lot of old acquaintances and family members who wanted to be my fb friends. I have no interest in "reconnecting" with people. If I did, I would've called.
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The reason I only lasted 2 years on FB is because there were a lot of old acquaintances and family members who wanted to be my fb friends. I have no interest in "reconnecting" with people. If I did, I would've called.
This alone is an awesome reason to not use your real name.
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The reason I only lasted 2 years on FB is because there were a lot of old acquaintances and family members who wanted to be my fb friends. I have no interest in "reconnecting" with people. If I did, I would've called.
This alone is an awesome reason to not use your real name.
Exactly this. My last name is modified just so no one will be able to locate me. And I have a fake realistic sounding account to follow groups I like.
I check FB about once a month to enjoy the cute things my future DIL posts. Fortunately, she sometimes shares old photos of my son and comments on their plans for the future.
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I'm not sure if you use the app, but if you do, not using your real name for the sake of privacy is pretty pointless considering how much information you consent to give them through using the app.
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I think there's a certain amount of paranoia when it comes to Facebook, and it seems kind of ridiculous to me. I mean, lets say someone finds my profile, with my real name. They get to look at my hiking and travel pictures, see a few posts about my cat's weight loss goals, and read some interesting articles I linked to. What can a person possibly do with that information?
I concur.
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There are some very interesting responses on here, thank you all for sharing. Seems everything from 'Stalking doesn't exist' 'people are just paranoid'.... to 'job issues cause me to not want my real name on there' 'I've got no desire to connect with people I don't specifically chose'.
I'm basically seeing a lot of different reasons for not wanting to use one's real name.
As for just bookmarking the news feeds - that works with public pages, but not with semi-private groups.
I personally don't care of facebook has my real name, I just didn't want that public for other users to see. If you are one of those who feels its paranoid or that stalking/harrassment is nonexistent... well, maybe you're just not the type to be stalked.... its a very unlucky situation, be thankful you have never experienced it. Facebook stating its safer to have everyone's real name is not realistic, because someone can sign up with a fake name and not get caught for a long time, if ever. I also kinda wonder about people who post all kinds of photos of their children publicly. I've never felt comfortable doing that.
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It's up to you how much information you share with Facebook.
That sounds like something Facebook itself would say. How about sharing your real name or not? That doesn't seem to be much of an option.
In truth, they are one of many Big Data companies with an insatiable appetite for all of your life details. Facebook trackers are installed on almost all major websites, so they know what sites you visit and what you read and look at.
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-is-how-facebook-is-tracking-your-internet-activity-2012-9?op=1
What he said. Also, how much your friends share about you is out of your control. That's one of the things that really bothered me about it.
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I personally don't care of facebook has my real name, I just didn't want that public for other users to see. If you are one of those who feels its paranoid or that stalking/harrassment is nonexistent... well, maybe you're just not the type to be stalked.... its a very unlucky situation, be thankful you have never experienced it. Facebook stating its safer to have everyone's real name is not realistic, because someone can sign up with a fake name and not get caught for a long time, if ever. I also kinda wonder about people who post all kinds of photos of their children publicly. I've never felt comfortable doing that.
So... how could someone stalk/harass you if you limit who is able to message you (to friends only, for example), and don't accept friend requests from people you don't know? There's virtually no way someone could do that, as far as I know. There's also the block button if someone you are friends with gets weird.
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I personally don't care of facebook has my real name, I just didn't want that public for other users to see. If you are one of those who feels its paranoid or that stalking/harrassment is nonexistent... well, maybe you're just not the type to be stalked.... its a very unlucky situation, be thankful you have never experienced it. Facebook stating its safer to have everyone's real name is not realistic, because someone can sign up with a fake name and not get caught for a long time, if ever. I also kinda wonder about people who post all kinds of photos of their children publicly. I've never felt comfortable doing that.
So... how could someone stalk/harass you if you limit who is able to message you (to friends only, for example), and don't accept friend requests from people you don't know? There's virtually no way someone could do that, as far as I know. There's also the block button if someone you are friends with gets weird.
Do you work for Facebook? ;)
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I personally don't care of facebook has my real name, I just didn't want that public for other users to see. If you are one of those who feels its paranoid or that stalking/harrassment is nonexistent... well, maybe you're just not the type to be stalked.... its a very unlucky situation, be thankful you have never experienced it. Facebook stating its safer to have everyone's real name is not realistic, because someone can sign up with a fake name and not get caught for a long time, if ever. I also kinda wonder about people who post all kinds of photos of their children publicly. I've never felt comfortable doing that.
So... how could someone stalk/harass you if you limit who is able to message you (to friends only, for example), and don't accept friend requests from people you don't know? There's virtually no way someone could do that, as far as I know. There's also the block button if someone you are friends with gets weird.
Do you work for Facebook? ;)
I'd make a lot more money and be retired a lot sooner if I did.
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I am going off the thread a bit and asking if folks think FB is a domain for extraverts? I tried it out after a lot of resistance and finally started getting used to the place about two years ago. Overall, it feels loud to me. And, a place where people with no boundaries can get out of line. I am an introvert and happy that way. I don't get the liking everything friends post just because it's a friend posting.
I was with an extravert the other day and she was scrolling through FB saying she had a lot of friends. The woman is loud and has no concept of keeping quiet just for the heck of it. If there's no noise she'll make it after awhile. There's a big difference between an acquaintance and a friend. I distinguish greatly between the two. The one thing I really discovered on FB, if you don't know them, but have a mutual interest, be careful about friending strangers. If you like it quiet, mind your own business kind of experience, set limits and stick to it.
I did put a block on people in the work place. I mean coworkers and bosses. There have been open statements about snooping and looking over people's pages just to find out what is going on. I always use friends only on postings, but I still don't want to be found by coworkers. It's a different environment.
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A friend wanted to play Words with Friends, so I downloaded it and went to sign up ... oh, it needs a Facebook account
A second friend suggested I download Bumble to find a hot date, so I downloaded it and went to sign up ... oh, it needs a Facebook account
Exceptionally annoying, and a sign of what the world will be like in 10-20 years
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you could photoshop the picture of your ID to your fake facebook name
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I am going off the thread a bit and asking if folks think FB is a domain for extraverts? I tried it out after a lot of resistance and finally started getting used to the place about two years ago. Overall, it feels loud to me. And, a place where people with no boundaries can get out of line. I am an introvert and happy that way. I don't get the liking everything friends post just because it's a friend posting.
Anecdotally, I don't agree with that hypothesis. I'm an introvert, and I'm pretty sure that several of my friends and acquaintances with whom I'm connected, and who I see make posts, on facebook are also introverts. I tend not to make too many of my own posts -- other than my cat pictures, pretty much! -- but I enjoy seeing many people's updates, photos, funny memes, etc. and liking their posts with some frequency. I enjoy that small connection and giving a bit of support to other people. It doesn't matter to me if they all do that in return, though it's nice that many of them do. By the way, I never "friend" strangers or even people I barely crossed paths with -- only real friends, family, and good acquaintances.
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I use my real name on Facebook, have a very small friends list (68 today) consisting solely of family and people I have actual relationships with, and utilize privacy settings. I've never been stalked or harassed on FB, and I'm honestly not sure how it could even happen if you just use the tools they give you. You know there are features to block people, and you can limit who's able to message you, right? I also am just not the type of person to post really personal, private things online, anonymously or otherwise.
I think there's a certain amount of paranoia when it comes to Facebook, and it seems kind of ridiculous to me. I mean, lets say someone finds my profile, with my real name. They get to look at my hiking and travel pictures, see a few posts about my cat's weight loss goals, and read some interesting articles I linked to. What can a person possibly do with that information?
I don't get the paranoia either. If I get the occasional friend request from someone I don't know, I just delete them. If someone I don't know messages me, I ignore it. A couple of times dudes kept messaging me. I blocked them, and done. OTOH, I've been able to get in contact with many childhood friends I might never have found again. My hometown has a page with news. I keep up with f&f, post some vacation pics (after we get back of course), and look at pics of my friend's kids. (I try not to accept friend requests from co-workers, but the list is getting longer, LOL.)
I'm also a member of groups like Dennis Miller, NY Times Science, Humans of New York, and Dr. William Davis, among others. Thoughtful ideas and stories that add to my day.
Yes, I see targeted ads. That happens no matter what you do on the 'net. Unless you're airing out your dirty laundry, I will never see the big deal.
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I'm a facebook user with my real name, the first and only person with that name on the site, because I started when my school was brought on in the beginning. And I don't have much I post there. But I have friends who have gotten away with [First Name] [Last initial]. Or [first name] [middle name] if generic? Then you could send an ID with [Last Name] blacked out. Maybe that's enough??
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I personally don't care of facebook has my real name, I just didn't want that public for other users to see. If you are one of those who feels its paranoid or that stalking/harrassment is nonexistent... well, maybe you're just not the type to be stalked.... its a very unlucky situation, be thankful you have never experienced it. Facebook stating its safer to have everyone's real name is not realistic, because someone can sign up with a fake name and not get caught for a long time, if ever. I also kinda wonder about people who post all kinds of photos of their children publicly. I've never felt comfortable doing that.
So... how could someone stalk/harass you if you limit who is able to message you (to friends only, for example), and don't accept friend requests from people you don't know? There's virtually no way someone could do that, as far as I know. There's also the block button if someone you are friends with gets weird.
Had a friend of a friend on Facebook, let's call her "B," who had been an unfriendly high school classmate. I go to college, start dating Guy, post relationship status on FB. One day, Guy says "Hey, I got this friend request, but I don't know this girl. Is she a friend of yours?" I say that she was an acquaintance in high school, he should just deny the request, she probably hit it by accident. A month later, another request. A while later, a weird message. I have him block B. I block B.
A month or so later, another girl "C" (who had always been nice) sends a weird message and friend request to Guy. Guy mentions it to me. This is getting strange, so I send C a message asking what is going on. C replies that she did not send the message. B had been visiting C. While C was out of the room, B went onto C's Facebook profile and sent the stalker-ish stuff to Guy!
At this point, I blocked everyone in my high school who had been close to B so that they didn't get caught in the middle of this.
Anyway, C had been on my friends list until that point. Guy and I both had to accept messages from "Friends and Friends of Friends" (1 intermediate link) because we were still new to Facebook and didn't want to miss actual friends. People who want to stalk you can get very weird about it.
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I think I should also clarify that I definitely do NOT share personal monetary information on Facebook, which I think is the reason for so much anonymity on this forum.
Smart. Anyone who did just a little digging could link me from here (even though this isn't my real name) to Facebook, Twitter, and also to the travel site and costuming forums I participate in. I don't really keep it all a secret. However, when I hit a monetary value worthy of ransom, I will indeed be doing a lot more covering of my tracks. :)
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The story above is how the creepiness starts, and real vs fake names are almost irrelevent for the person doing the craziness... its easy enough not to be bothered if you can just use a pseudonym. Its hard to understand if you're "just not bothered", but with mental illness (which is what it takes to do the craziness) it doesn't take much info to keep them hungry for more. A little info here, a little info there... they start doing searches for you just to feed that part of their obsessed brain. I've seen it happened. A woman at my work was stalking a man there, and she kept that fire going on basically nothing. Through the very little public info he had on FB, she was able to find out way too much about him and ended up driving by his house on a regular basis and harassing his family.
Likewise, I had a few work friends on my account, and I sent a friend request to someone who wouldn't have recognized my pseudonym, so for half a day I changed my profile photo to my actual photo... then removed it. A few days later I found out that a man at work who had already been cited for sexual harassment had noticed that photo and started questioning me about that account. Others in his department who weren't known for their mental stability also started looking, and verbally asking the coworkers on my friend list to see my page. That's when I deleted that account and started one just to read my local news groups and not even adding friends. I don't even post anymore. I don't know where that would have gone had I left my account up there, but I simply didn't have the time or energy to tolerate it.
I also use a different name on each site I'm on, or at least not the same one across the board. People get bored on the internet and they snoop.
Also, as for the term paranoia... sure, there are paranoid people, but my reasons aren't paranoid. Paranoia is actually a symptom of a mental health issue and using that term in this case is insulting. As I mentioned earlier, I personally don't care if FB has my real name. although they don't and never have had it, I just don't want the people who are mentally unstable to see it. Instead of viewing it as paranoia, just view it as intolerance for idiocy.... or prevention of dealing with fools. The world has too many fools, it has too much stress, and too little time.
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Okay, so here's a little explanation on why some folks are a little bothered by Facebook data mining. It may still very well not bother you. You may not be participating in all of these collection streams. Thats fine. But maybe you will gain some understanding. This is not a complete list. I just banged this out in a couple of minutes. If we sat and hashed it out, we could have a much more complete list of risks.
* One need only read a little bit of the various security expert's opinions on the "Snowden documents" to understand the relevance of metadata and the huge amount of data you can glean from someone just from metadata. In the case of FB, we're talking much more than metadata. We have detailed data on users: Name, sex, sexual preference, political preference, location, whom they are associating with, whom they are related to, whom they are currently with, religion, financial status ... the list goes on.
* Unless you have explicitly blocked FB's cross-site tracking ... or use a totally different browser instance for FB, they pretty much have tracking to determine exactly what web sites each user visits.
* Some (possibly all) of that data is shared with FB advertisers.
* If you use FB's built in app platform, this data is potentially shared with application developers -- who may again share this with their affiliates. FB apps essentially log in AS YOU and can pretty much do what they want AS YOU. Your privacy settings really don't apply.
* If you use FB apps on your phone, they will have location data... not just for check-ins, but for pretty much all the time.
* Government agencies have a great interest in FB data. Government has requested of FB a huge number of national security demands. We don't really know what they've requested, just very general numbers. There is a huge undercurrent in IT industries to create data mining partnerships with governments. What is being requested and complied with is generally just not known. This mostly applies to "US government" ... but it also applies to others... As the data golden egg grows, more and more will participate.
* Advertising is not necessarily as simple as you think it is. It isn't necessarily just an image saying "Buy widgets!" They are usually javascript that runs on your computer. They are not designed by Facebook, but by some third party. This might be someone with very little security coding knowledge that makes dumb mistakes. It could also be a bad actor (malware, etc). A huge amount of malware propagates via ad-based injection. Now... with good data the malware can be targeted to a single person... or group (gun owners, people that have a particular stance on abortion, people likely to have bigger bank accounts, etc).
* If you trust FB today... it could be sold tomorrow. The holders of your data can and will change over time. Deleting information is of little use. They have it.
* Many sites are starting to use FB as a single sign on entity. This is A REALLY BAD IDEA. This means putting all your eggs in one basket. If it gets compromised/hacked/etc... you get EVERYTHING that is attached to it.
* There is a significant risk of hackers getting FB data. They already glean lots of single accounts and sell them on the open market. Getting the backend data would be worth quite a lot of money to them. FB is a pretty decent target.
* The primary concept of computer and network security is "least required privilege". FB design is exactly opposite of this. It's just bad design that is sort of set up for major security issues. It may never happen. It may happen every day and not be published. But trust me as a "computer security professional" ... It is a "bad thing."
Once again: I'm not listing all this to be all tinfoil hat paranoid. Computer paranoia was my job for over 25 years. If you are comfortable participating and sharing fully, please continue to do so. If you think you're not sharing much... you are likely wrong. Learn what's likely being shared and decide if you're still comfortable.
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Just watch the documentary "Terms and Conditions May Apply." It goes into some scary stuff about FB data mining, among other social media sites.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terms_and_Conditions_May_Apply
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Spork, thank you for taking the time to share that. That stuff isn't my main concern for myself, although I do care about it on a broader scale, but its hard to make people understand that it is important. Its hard to remind people that 10 years ago they lived just fine without facebook and other internet sites.
What I don't like is that stores are carrying less and less due to internet shopping. Its very hard to find items you truly need when you can't buy them in person, unless you shop online. Not all things, but more than I'd like. So my little idea of just 'getting off the net' proved difficult. I changed to a dumb phone, reduced what I do on the net to the bare minimum... and yeah, they already have all the info I've given so far, can't take that back. My reason, though, isn't really what they do with the data mining (even though it really should be), although that is part of it... my main concern is my stress level, the time I spend fighting off spam, avoiding social problems. I just enjoy simplicity. I just want to get news about my side of my city or I wouldn't be on FB at all.
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Okay, so here's a little explanation on why some folks are a little bothered by Facebook data mining. It may still very well not bother you. You may not be participating in all of these collection streams. Thats fine. But maybe you will gain some understanding. This is not a complete list. I just banged this out in a couple of minutes. If we sat and hashed it out, we could have a much more complete list of risks.
* One need only read a little bit of the various security expert's opinions on the "Snowden documents" to understand the relevance of metadata and the huge amount of data you can glean from someone just from metadata. In the case of FB, we're talking much more than metadata. We have detailed data on users: Name, sex, sexual preference, political preference, location, whom they are associating with, whom they are related to, whom they are currently with, religion, financial status ... the list goes on.
* Unless you have explicitly blocked FB's cross-site tracking ... or use a totally different browser instance for FB, they pretty much have tracking to determine exactly what web sites each user visits.
* Some (possibly all) of that data is shared with FB advertisers.
* If you use FB's built in app platform, this data is potentially shared with application developers -- who may again share this with their affiliates. FB apps essentially log in AS YOU and can pretty much do what they want AS YOU. Your privacy settings really don't apply.
* If you use FB apps on your phone, they will have location data... not just for check-ins, but for pretty much all the time.
* Government agencies have a great interest in FB data. Government has requested of FB a huge number of national security demands. We don't really know what they've requested, just very general numbers. There is a huge undercurrent in IT industries to create data mining partnerships with governments. What is being requested and complied with is generally just not known. This mostly applies to "US government" ... but it also applies to others... As the data golden egg grows, more and more will participate.
* Advertising is not necessarily as simple as you think it is. It isn't necessarily just an image saying "Buy widgets!" They are usually javascript that runs on your computer. They are not designed by Facebook, but by some third party. This might be someone with very little security coding knowledge that makes dumb mistakes. It could also be a bad actor (malware, etc). A huge amount of malware propagates via ad-based injection. Now... with good data the malware can be targeted to a single person... or group (gun owners, people that have a particular stance on abortion, people likely to have bigger bank accounts, etc).
* If you trust FB today... it could be sold tomorrow. The holders of your data can and will change over time. Deleting information is of little use. They have it.
* Many sites are starting to use FB as a single sign on entity. This is A REALLY BAD IDEA. This means putting all your eggs in one basket. If it gets compromised/hacked/etc... you get EVERYTHING that is attached to it.
* There is a significant risk of hackers getting FB data. They already glean lots of single accounts and sell them on the open market. Getting the backend data would be worth quite a lot of money to them. FB is a pretty decent target.
* The primary concept of computer and network security is "least required privilege". FB design is exactly opposite of this. It's just bad design that is sort of set up for major security issues. It may never happen. It may happen every day and not be published. But trust me as a "computer security professional" ... It is a "bad thing."
Once again: I'm not listing all this to be all tinfoil hat paranoid. Computer paranoia was my job for over 25 years. If you are comfortable participating and sharing fully, please continue to do so. If you think you're not sharing much... you are likely wrong. Learn what's likely being shared and decide if you're still comfortable.
Very interesting. Thank you. Am I correct in saying that the above information makes the whole fake vs. real fb name issue a moot point?
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Spork, I guess I'm still not sure what exactly someone could do with pictures of my cat, recipe links, and a few posts about recent hikes or trips. Even if everyone and their brother were to get access to everything I've ever posted, what could they possibly do with it that could harm me? That's the part I'm confused about.
They can't advertise to me, anyways, as long as Ad Block keeps working.
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I think Facebook ought to have an option to have ID's verified and then they could mark accounts "Real Name verified by Facebook". Facebook could then allow users to block users who have chosen not to allow Facebook to verify their ID. (Since real names are beneficial to Facebook, this will be the one time a new privacy setting defaults to the more restrictive setting.) Of course we don't know the outcome of a lawsuit where the stalker creates an account that Facebook verified using a borrowed/forged/stolen ID - Facebook may be opening itself up to liability here by creating an expectation that Facebook has verified the ID of account holders.
I imagine Facebook will eventually have their ID check go to all users, but is targeting users who are not connected to reletives with similar names first as they are more likely to be using a fake name.
Spork did a great job outlining the biggest privacy threats Facebook, Google, and other major online players pose. The only real defense I use is NoScript - I don't use an "ad blocker" but blocking scripts from untrusted advertiser domains greatly reduces the ads I see. On older hardware, the overhead of advertiser scripts can be quite noticable even if they aren't introducing security risks.
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It interesting to see all the different aspects of privacy different people care about, including those who don't care at all. This has been a very productive thread, in my opinion, and I'm thankful that those who don't care about it can't force me to provide more personal info, lol. Some folks aren't interesting enough to be harassed ;p Be hopefull you aren't chosen at random by one of the crazies. "Johnson, Nathan R.... " -- "The Jerk" right before Steve Martin's character got shot at a dozen times by that man with the phonebook, lol
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Very interesting. Thank you. Am I correct in saying that the above information makes the whole fake vs. real fb name issue a moot point?
Moot isn't the right word. But it's close. They're collecting data on you whether you want them to or not. You can attempt to limit the data in various ways. Or ... attempt to poison your data slightly. I think not using a real name helps EVER SO SLIGHTLY. But... it would be trivial for FB to sort out what my real name is if they tried.
Spork, I guess I'm still not sure what exactly someone could do with pictures of my cat, recipe links, and a few posts about recent hikes or trips. Even if everyone and their brother were to get access to everything I've ever posted, what could they possibly do with it that could harm me? That's the part I'm confused about.
They can't advertise to me, anyways, as long as Ad Block keeps working.
Just like using a fake name helps (a little), so does Ad Blocking. It doesn't mean they aren't collecting data with their various facebook cross site scripts. Unless you are running something like NoScript AND have specifically added XSS strings in there to catch facebook XSS... they're collection. Does it matter to you? I don't know.
Ad blocking is also becoming slowly more difficult. More and more sites are implementing adblocking blockers. It isn't everyone yet... but as it becomes more common, it will eventually be difficult to successfully block ads. I.e., "if this bit of javascript does not execute on your PC and give us an answer we expect: We won't serve the page to you."
The "least required access/information" is so ingrained in my way of thinking that it just really gets under my skin. It is similar to (but very different because it isn't law enforcement) a cop asking if he can search my car on a routing traffic stop. HE WILL NOT FIND ANYTHING... but: Damn it! He doesn't have any reason to do that. And it will not benefit me in the least if he does.
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Fake name is not a moot point if you care about the other users harassing you... so you can't just blow that off. As many people on here have explained, that is more of what they care about.
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Ad blocking is also becoming slowly more difficult. More and more sites are implementing adblocking blockers. It isn't everyone yet... but as it becomes more common, it will eventually be difficult to successfully block ads. I.e., "if this bit of javascript does not execute on your PC and give us an answer we expect: We won't serve the page to you."
The easiest way for sites to circumvent ad blockers is to serve the ads from the same domain as the content - wait don't tell me you don't trust/value your advertisers enough to serve as a proxy for serving up their ads to your readers.
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Here's a funny article about Zuckerberg - I guess even the folks at facebook have an issue with security.
http://www.popsci.com/mark-zuckerberg-is-super-intense-about-his-computer-security?src=SOC&dom=fb (http://www.popsci.com/mark-zuckerberg-is-super-intense-about-his-computer-security?src=SOC&dom=fb)
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Has anyone gotten a message that it was someone "reporting" their name? The article makes it sound like that's a lot of the source of Facebook questioning names.
http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/real-names-policy-reporting-verifying/631558
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I actually have two Facebooks. My main one is the one I've always had under my longstanding nickname. It's pretty much limited to close friends from high school and college that I don't want to lose contact with. It's where I rant about work and life and share things that I think my social circle might find interesting, and occasionally a politically charged post (but I avoid that normally since I find it annoying and assume others do as well).
My "professional" Facebook is under my real name. I started it when I graduated, and it's part of my professional "brand"(LinkedIn, my Web site, my portfolio, etc.). It's also a red herring to draw people away my main account. Family, co-workers, people from professional associations, etc., all go on there. I curate my posting much more carefully--nothing political or religious, nothing that could get me fired, etc. Lots of personal information, but nothing that's not already on my Web site or my LinkedIn.
My rule for both is that if I don't know you in person, I don't accept your friend request (with some exceptions for VERY close Internet friends, many of whom I've subsequently met in person).
I'm not worried about my personal information getting found because I know it's already out there. I was part of the OPM breach, so they already have far more information that I put on my Facebook page. I'm anonymous on this site for the same reason many others are: it's a safe zone where we can talk about pretty much anything, including our personal financial situations. Posting under our real names would jeopardize that, and I sure as heck wouldn't want some of my posts from here to be indexed by Google under my real name.
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Rural, when I got the message about FB questioning my name, it did not state how I came up on their list. People can report each other, and FB also has some program running through the names, but the message didn't clarify that for me, at least.
Inaya, that's exactly it, a safe zone. For a lot of people, that is what they want, real name or fake, they want a safe zone. I always laughed at people who were upset when a family member ended up seeing something personal they posted - they clearly needed two accounts if they were going to have people on there they weren't comfortable sharing everything with.