Author Topic: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?  (Read 16502 times)

coffeelover

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Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« on: September 28, 2014, 08:20:56 PM »
Whether it be preschool, elementary or even high school. Why do you pay for it instead of using the public school system?

With preschool in our area you have to be poor to qualify. I want my kids to have lots of learning and playtime before 'real' school starts. I don't feel like I can provide all of the fun stuff at home.
So we only pay for one 1/2 day a week for my almost 3 year old.

I'm hoping we can get her into head-start next year since they let in about 30% of the kids who don't qualify based on household income.
If she isn't allowed in--then we will continue to pay for preschool but will up the days to, 2 to 3 a week.
I just hate paying for it, but at the same time she loves it. She gains so much from school already and I can see the benefits.

edit: I write crappy, added some words
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 08:27:51 PM by coffeelover »

Terrestrial

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 09:02:45 PM »
We pay for our daughter to go to a good preschool.  Undecided yet if we will pay for elementary or not, we live in quite a good public school district and her school would be only about a mile from our house so I am leaning toward no.

I don't think paying for good education for your children is face punch worthy.  I think too often 'mustasianism' is implied to be synonymous with 'not spending money on anything that isn't bare bones necessary'.  I don't view it this way, I think it means not wasting money on things you really don't care about, so that you have the money for things that are important, like your child's education.  So no face punch from my perspective.

catccc

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2014, 09:26:47 PM »
We currently do, but we also plan on utilizing the great public schools where we currently live. 

Our plan was one year of preschool for our first, then public K.  The kid has a fall (October) b-day, so the September before her 4th birthday, we paid for three half days of preschool.  The next year we couldn't enroll her in public K, because she didn't make the cut-off, plus I didn't like that it was full day K.  So we enrolled her in a 1/2 day K program that was 5 days a week and paid for that. 

When it came time to enroll her in public schools for this school year, it became apparent that it would be a logistical nightmare to have her attend the public school, since our 2nd kid was starting 2 day a week preschool, and bus and drop off schedules were a major mismatch.  Also, we planned for an extra year of preschool for our 2nd because she has a spring birthday, and is not nearly as precocious as her older sibling, academically or socially.

Anyway, the intention was to pay for 1 year for each kid, and the likely scenario now is 3 years for each kid.  I feel like we have to give both kids an equivalent time of this "high-end" private education, barring any major disparities in their needs.  The price tag for each kid (at current tuition rates) will be about $20K for the 3 years.

But we really love the school and the foundation it seems to be providing, not really academically, but in terms of emotional and social development.  It's a Friends (Quaker) school and I feel like my kids are learning stuff there that I would suck at teaching them, and stuff that I could see being totally missed in a public school setting.

marty998

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2014, 01:44:20 AM »
School system in my state is 3 tiered. People will argue to the end of the earth about equity, funding, results etc but at the end of the day it's a 3 tiered system.

You have the public selective high schools filled with the cream of the crop. Then you have the private, independent, Catholic and other faith based schools which charge fees anywhere from 3,500 a year to 35,000 a year. Finally you have the public school system.

I'm not saying all public schools are bad, and all students within them are not going to be top achievers. But when you seriously analyse the HSC exam results, it's not difficult to see that the top schools are selective or private.

The reasons for it are of course varied, but boil down to essentially the socioeconomic background of the students, the location and resources of the school, and the commitment and value that the parents place on education.

In an ideal world public and private should be equivalent, but we do not live in an ideal world, and parents are prepared to pay for perceived quality, or for their kids to mix with the kids of likeminded parents.

If enough parents do this, then you end up with the tiered system we have. Sort of quasi market forces at play.

BooksAreNerdy

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2014, 07:17:40 AM »
We pay for preschool as there is no free option. Not going is not an option as our 3 year old thrives with the playtime and social interaction. We will not pay for any schooling that is offered free. We pay $118/mo for 2.5hours 2 mornings per week. At about $6/hour, this is also the cheapest free time I can buy.

MayDay

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 07:22:00 AM »
There is no free preschool here, except head start. 

We did not pay for our son because he had an IEP and special needs so got it for free from the public schools.  We do pay 200$ a month for our daughter.  If preschool was too expensive, we would have looked for an in home daycare or something like that, and sent her once a week, just for the socialization.  She doesn't "need" preschool academically, she knows her letter and colors and such.  But she is a social butterfly and does need lots of social interaction, which exhausts her introvert mother! 

In our area preschool is quite cheap, for that 200$ a month we get 16 hours of care a week, so it works out to about 4$ an hour. 

Because preschool has become so common, the few kids who don't go really struggle in kindergarten.  They are expected to know and be able to write their letters, and know basic group skills like how to walk down a hallway without shoving the kid in front of you, and how to sit on the rug for circle time, and how to separate from your mother/father.  If you are going to skip preschool, I would figure out a way to teach your kid those things.  Do a rotating playgroup, go to library story time, etc. 

rubybeth

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2014, 08:03:38 AM »
I didn't, but my parents did for both me and my sister. We went to private Catholic schools in our area in Minnesota. I would say that elementary school was likely not worth the price, but back in the 80s and early 90s, the price was around $500/year. The elementary level public schools in our area are relatively good, and I kind of wish we'd done that, instead. Both my sister and I had some struggles when we moved onto middle school--we were not well prepared for math and science, but very prepared for the writing and arts components of middle and high school. But the middle school and high school education were, in my opinion, well worth the cost--which was between $3,000-$6,000 per year during the years we attended. Both my sister and I were extremely well prepared for college, especially when it came to writing (I'd take an essay test over a multiple choice test any day). In fact, to me, university felt like a 'break' after a rigorous high school education. And, I switched to public high school during my junior and senior years, and was pretty surprised at the social structure at the public vs. private school. Private school was a special kind of social hell for me, whereas at the public school, kids went out of their way to make me feel welcome and comfortable, and I made friends very easily, and met my DH there. So my advice from this experience is to really ask how a private school will prepare kids for the next grade levels and into middle and high school and university, and don't ignore the social piece--private school was full of cliques and very class-oriented, and I'm sure that's not the case everywhere, but that wasn't a very Mustachian environment.

acroy

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2014, 08:14:25 AM »
I pay for public schooling via taxes, but we homeschool.

No regrets; excellent investment for all involved.

begood

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2014, 08:20:55 AM »
We currently do, but we also plan on utilizing the great public schools where we currently live. 

Our plan was one year of preschool for our first, then public K.  The kid has a fall (October) b-day, so the September before her 4th birthday, we paid for three half days of preschool.  The next year we couldn't enroll her in public K, because she didn't make the cut-off, plus I didn't like that it was full day K.  So we enrolled her in a 1/2 day K program that was 5 days a week and paid for that. 

When it came time to enroll her in public schools for this school year, it became apparent that it would be a logistical nightmare to have her attend the public school, since our 2nd kid was starting 2 day a week preschool, and bus and drop off schedules were a major mismatch.  Also, we planned for an extra year of preschool for our 2nd because she has a spring birthday, and is not nearly as precocious as her older sibling, academically or socially.

Anyway, the intention was to pay for 1 year for each kid, and the likely scenario now is 3 years for each kid.  I feel like we have to give both kids an equivalent time of this "high-end" private education, barring any major disparities in their needs.  The price tag for each kid (at current tuition rates) will be about $20K for the 3 years.

But we really love the school and the foundation it seems to be providing, not really academically, but in terms of emotional and social development.  It's a Friends (Quaker) school and I feel like my kids are learning stuff there that I would suck at teaching them, and stuff that I could see being totally missed in a public school setting.

I am another SE PA/SW Philly person, and our daughter is in 7th grade at a Quaker school. It's an interesting dichotomy: it costs a lot to get in the door, but once you're in, they teach you all about simplicity, integrity, equality, stewardship of the earth, the importance of community. Completely in line with Mustachian principles.

Quakers: Mustachian since 1682!

DrF

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2014, 08:28:44 AM »
What MMM does not really address (nor any Mustachians, that I can find), is how a double income family can save so much with child care being so expensive. MMM had the foresight to not have children until he was FI, but most people have kids already, and that means daycare. Currently, my wife and I spend $1650 a month for 2 kids childcare expenses. This price is actually lower than last year because my oldest just started half day kindergarten. Last year we were paying close to $2000 per month. We don't live near family, and we cannot imagine putting our kids into some crappy childcare facility (you know the one, called Nana Banana's fun fun childcare or some garbage for $450 a month). What do other people do?

retired?

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2014, 08:33:46 AM »
My wife and I went to public schools and public universities.  We choose to live in good school districts, in which case we are paying for it since the homes are more expensive, but as long as things don't change drastically, that value will endure.

With preschool, definitely we paid.  My wife has works for a preschool and has been an elementary school counselor.  She clearly saw a huge difference b/n the kids who attended preschool and those who did not.  Not only in terms of knowledge, but behavior and knowing how to get along with their classmates.  A very worthy investment.   Choose one that is not basically day-care.

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2014, 09:48:33 AM »
Pre-school - We send our son a few days/week and pay a couple hundred/month for it. We do it for socialization, structure, and sanity, not really for education. We will do the same for our daughter when she's ready.

K-5 - Public
6-8 - Public
9-12 - Public/Private - We will give our kids the choice of a few reasonable private schools in addition to the public high school.
College - We will pay for a reasonable undergrad degree, nothing excessive though.

boarder42

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2014, 10:01:32 AM »
everyone pays for schooling in america.  its a socialized part of our society.  its called taxes.  and my property taxes show how much the school district we live in thinks they are worth ... (tooo much)

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2014, 10:03:35 AM »
everyone pays for schooling in america.  its a socialized part of our society.  its called taxes.  and my property taxes show how much the school district we live in thinks they are worth ... (tooo much)

You're correct, but by choosing Private schools you choose to pay for schooling twice.

Greg

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2014, 10:10:50 AM »
You're correct, but by choosing Private schools you choose to pay for schooling twice.

That doesn't sound Mustachian. 

We chose to set up house near a good public elementary school, and to help out as volunteers on occasion.  For preschool we found a good local preschool in line with our values, it wasn't expensive.  The good fit was more important than the money honestly.  We looked at one place that was more like a daycare (they all are actually) and the general atmosphere was wrong for us; lots of tv, tons of plastic military toys, generally not as clean and friendly as we'd like.  We found a much better place a little further away.

eyePod

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2014, 10:13:28 AM »
Daughter's in daycare but MAN it's a huge difference when she's in school vs the past summer. She stayed over my parents and didn't cry when we left. She seems to be more "normal" socially. I can't decide if this is a good thing in the long run though. Who wants an average, normal american kid?

catccc

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2014, 10:50:12 AM »
...But we really love the school and the foundation it seems to be providing, not really academically, but in terms of emotional and social development.  It's a Friends (Quaker) school and I feel like my kids are learning stuff there that I would suck at teaching them, and stuff that I could see being totally missed in a public school setting.

I am another SE PA/SW Philly person, and our daughter is in 7th grade at a Quaker school. It's an interesting dichotomy: it costs a lot to get in the door, but once you're in, they teach you all about simplicity, integrity, equality, stewardship of the earth, the importance of community. Completely in line with Mustachian principles.

Quakers: Mustachian since 1682!

I know, it is just very basic goodness going on there.  I suppose I could just go to meeting and adopt the faith, but paying out the wazoo for private school seems to be easier right now.  Plus I don't know if I can really be Quaker, I might not be honest enough...

Pigeon

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2014, 11:15:33 AM »
What MMM does not really address (nor any Mustachians, that I can find), is how a double income family can save so much with child care being so expensive. MMM had the foresight to not have children until he was FI, but most people have kids already, and that means daycare. Currently, my wife and I spend $1650 a month for 2 kids childcare expenses. This price is actually lower than last year because my oldest just started half day kindergarten. Last year we were paying close to $2000 per month. We don't live near family, and we cannot imagine putting our kids into some crappy childcare facility (you know the one, called Nana Banana's fun fun childcare or some garbage for $450 a month). What do other people do?

We used something you would probably consider "crappy childcare," that is, an  in-home daycare provider.  She was awesome, very warm and loving.  Being a SAHM would be my particular version of hell and we all would have been bored out of our minds had I been home with them.  This person is fun, creative and patient.  My kids adored her and even though they are teenagers now, they still go back to her to visit occasionally.  They liked having  a few other kids around to play with.  We didn't like the high turnover that many centers around here experience.

This lady was considerably cheaper than a daycare center, but that wasn't our motivation for using her.

coffeelover

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2014, 11:26:11 AM »
I pay for public schooling via taxes, but we homeschool.

No regrets; excellent investment for all involved.

Do you ever just go a little 'nuts' though with the kids always being home? How do you maintain your sanity? When do you get things done, chores, running errands etc.
 I will be honest here and say I love the time my almost 3 year old is out of the house. I do still have her younger sister to take care of, but 1 kid is easier then my normal 2 through 5.

justajane

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2014, 11:35:04 AM »
We pay for one year of part-time preschool. For three full days (8-3) it's $400 a month. Expensive but worth it, in my opinion, to get your child used to the classroom. It also helps that it is the same building where they go to kindergarten.

Earlier in their development, we also paid for Parent's Day Out for 2-3 days a week from 9-2. It added up to around $200-$300 a month, depending on the age. Not Mustachian at all and totally done for my benefit, not theirs. Being with a baby/toddler 24/7 is exhausting. If we hadn't done it, we would have tens of thousands more in the bank, but I still have no regrets. My sanity and well being are important. 

pagoconcheques

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2014, 11:53:10 AM »
We paid for a preschool that had professional teachers--it was much more than day care.  We opted to skip over private schools and locate in a fantastic pyramid within one of the nations' best school districts.  The savings from going with awesome public schools more than cover the costs of paying for the undergraduate college degrees.

Rein1987

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2014, 12:33:48 PM »
We don't have kids yet, but we are saving for their tuition and planning sending them to private schools. We might change our mind later, but here's reasons why we are considering private school:

- The house in a good school district easily costs 1.5m+ in SF bay area, $400k more compared with a house close by of similar size but locate on the other side of the street with a worse school district. $400k is more than enough sending 2 children to a very good private school.
- When we send children to private school, we always reserve the option to send them back to public school. But, I have heard if children go to public elementary and middle school, it is almost impossible for them to get in private high school.
- We value high on Christian school, because of zero tolerance on bad behavior and teachers are generally more loving. It's not so expensive an no public school options available.
- Our family does not live close by and both my husband and I do not consider giving up working, so we need to send children to daycare/preschool anyway.

GizmoTX

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2014, 12:45:17 PM »
A good education never deserves a face punch, IMO. However, like MMM, we were already FI when we finally managed to have our only child at 45.

We enrolled DS in a Montessori morning preschool when he was 3. We lived in a car centered neighborhood without similar aged children. He thrived at his preschool, learning to socialize, read, do practical skills (cutting up fruits & veggies for snacks & washing windows!), & math skills such as long division with manipulatives.

We were so pleased with the school that we kept him there for his elementary education. However, we initially weren't aware that the elementary school used a "write to read" methodology rather than Montessori. By the 2nd grade, we knew DS was unhappy & very troubled, but the school didn't grade & the reports were rosy. I had him go thru the application process at another school & was horrified to discover that DS could barely do 1st grade math, although he was already reading at the 6th grade level. We then had him tested for IQ & learning differences. What a revelation! DS was diagnosed with serious dyscalculia (math) & dysgraphia (writing) along with very high IQ. I will never forget the look of relief on his face when we told him about his LD; he was terrified that we'd find out how stupid he was. NOT!

At this point, we rejected the usual practice of pulling a child out of mainstream classes for tutoring & transferred him to a small school that only works with LD & ADD students. Ironically, while not being a Montessori school, his LD school uses the very techniques of manipulatives, visual, & audio methods that worked so well. Daily classes included 3 hours for English reading, grammar, & phonics, plus math, science, history, & geography. Classes were very small & it was impossible to hide. Writing is minimal with multiple choice & short answers until 5th grade, when students were taught to use a keyboard (with a small screen) -- this greatly helps with dysgraphia, since students don't have to worry about how to form letters. DS can now type at 60 wpm.

This LD school made such a difference in teaching DS to meet & exceed his grade level, an efficient way to keep his binder always organized, transition from daily to weekly & monthly homework execution, & grow in self confidence. DS qualified for one of the top high schools in our city, which does not cater to LD/ADD students except to allow the use of a laptop for notes & some extra time for tests. It is a Catholic school & he loved it for its concentration on fellowship & service as well as academic excellence, & graduated magna cum laude.

Without this education, I don't think DS would have qualified for his top-50 university, his major scholarships, or achieved his 3.9 GPA. He's now a junior & particularly proud that he is a double major in electrical engineering and MATH.  For our family, his education was money well spent.

pagoconcheques

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2014, 12:51:28 PM »

- $400k is more than enough sending 2 children to a very good private school.

- We value high on Christian school, because of zero tolerance on bad behavior and teachers are generally more loving. It's not so expensive an no public school options available.


I question that first assumption--you can easily spend over 400k on 13 years of private school for two kids; remember to factor in tuition increases, uniforms, buses not paid for by county taxes, and the inevitable and endless call to make donations.  Perhaps the difficulty is that the "private school" concept includes wildly diverse entities ranging from cheap and often poorly run religiously affiliated schools to nationally ranked prep schools that graduate most of the kids into top tier colleges.  The cost range covers everything from a few thousand a year to private schools whose annual tuition makes Ivy League universities look cheap.  If the cost delta from crossing the street and school boundary line is 400k, look hard for a smaller and less desirable house within the good school district.  Sure, it may be on a main street, have a ridiculously small lot, be very dated, or even next to a convenience store, but such homes will exist.  Perhaps a condo or townhouse instead of a cul-de-sac dream home? I firmly believe that the best housing value is the cheapest house in the best neighborhood (including best school district). 

The second assumption may or may not pan out, it will depend a lot on the individual school, how it is run, and how involved parents are.  How do you know one of your kids won't be the one kicked out due to a violation that kicks in a zero tolerance policy? Keep in mind that once they are middle-school aged much of the influence on your kids comes from their peers rather than the teachers and parents.  By middle school many of the kids who have been effectively "kicked out" of public schools due to behavior issues have been put into local private schools--especially the cheaper ones.  Local supply and demand will affect the numbers, but be aware of that. 

justajane

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2014, 12:58:18 PM »
Quote
- We value high on Christian school, because of zero tolerance on bad behavior...

This reminds me of a very close friend of mine who went to a Christian school. She said that they had tons of "bad influences" in their midst, mainly because many of their attenders were kids who had gotten in with the wrong crowd in public school or gotten kicked out of other schools. Their parents sent them to Christian schools to teach them values and change their course, but oftentimes these were the "worldly" kids who shaped the school's culture.

In other words, if you are sending your kid to a private Christian school to protect your kid from drugs, sex, etc., you might not be getting your money's worth.

DecD

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2014, 01:14:46 PM »
Our three year old is in full time Montessori preschool, which doubles as daycare since we both work.  He will move to public school when he starts kindergarten in 2 years.

sleepyguy

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2014, 01:17:20 PM »
My 3yr old is currently in preschool/daycare which is about $50/day.  It's not free in Toronto unless you have extremely low (or no) income.  After that he'll be in public school like we went through.  We'll be fronting their university bill as well so that' be a tad expensive (not US kinda expensive... like 20-30k kinda expensive).  They can foot their own bill if they decide to go to post grad stuff :)  We got 2 kids so it will take a bit to save up for them.  Then again, we may just try to hit our FIRE numbers faster and let them pay for their own schooling ;)

Rein1987

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2014, 02:10:23 PM »

- $400k is more than enough sending 2 children to a very good private school.

- We value high on Christian school, because of zero tolerance on bad behavior and teachers are generally more loving. It's not so expensive an no public school options available.


I question that first assumption--you can easily spend over 400k on 13 years of private school for two kids; remember to factor in tuition increases, uniforms, buses not paid for by county taxes, and the inevitable and endless call to make donations.  Perhaps the difficulty is that the "private school" concept includes wildly diverse entities ranging from cheap and often poorly run religiously affiliated schools to nationally ranked prep schools that graduate most of the kids into top tier colleges.  The cost range covers everything from a few thousand a year to private schools whose annual tuition makes Ivy League universities look cheap.  If the cost delta from crossing the street and school boundary line is 400k, look hard for a smaller and less desirable house within the good school district.  Sure, it may be on a main street, have a ridiculously small lot, be very dated, or even next to a convenience store, but such homes will exist.  Perhaps a condo or townhouse instead of a cul-de-sac dream home? I firmly believe that the best housing value is the cheapest house in the best neighborhood (including best school district). 

The second assumption may or may not pan out, it will depend a lot on the individual school, how it is run, and how involved parents are.  How do you know one of your kids won't be the one kicked out due to a violation that kicks in a zero tolerance policy? Keep in mind that once they are middle-school aged much of the influence on your kids comes from their peers rather than the teachers and parents.  By middle school many of the kids who have been effectively "kicked out" of public schools due to behavior issues have been put into local private schools--especially the cheaper ones.  Local supply and demand will affect the numbers, but be aware of that.

I'm not sure about the second part as I did not have kids yet and I do not attend any schools in the US until university, so I'm open to any opinions.

But I think the best value for a house is the value of living. I think house should be in a good location, but not only about school. It should have a functional floor plan and a comfortable size. I value commuting, neighborhood, convenience, close to park, much more than school district, because I cannot attend school any longer. For good education, there are always more choices for private school to choose. $400k might not be enough, but $400k more mortgage incurs more property tax, more interest, and I do not see the advantage to limit children to the only one available public school spending so much money. At least now, with the same amount of money, I will not consider living in an uncomfortable house just for a good school district. And, yes, if I have plenty of money when my kids come in to the world, I also love to buy a comfortable house in a good district, and reserve the choice to send them to private schools if private schools fit them better.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2014, 02:37:05 PM »
It seems to me that it breaks down like this:

Nonmustachian: Sending your kids to private school because all your coworkers do that.

Mustachian: Sending your kids to private school for a variety of well-thought-out reasons, such as excessive housing costs in a decent school district, child's temperament, etc.

I do pay for preschool/daycare for my two and three-year-olds, and have done so (part-time) since each was an older baby. I was finishing a degree program, and now it's about maintaining my sanity and having time to look for a real job as well as their getting some socialization/enrichment.

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2014, 02:46:53 PM »
It seems to me that it breaks down like this:

Nonmustachian: Sending your kids to private school because all your coworkers do that.

Mustachian: Sending your kids to private school for a variety of well-thought-out reasons, such as excessive housing costs in a decent school district, child's temperament, etc.

Bolded for emphasis. You can justify anything with this. I agree with you, but basically anything you spend money on can be justified (or facepunched) based on what you said above.

If you've consciously made a well thought out decision and you still send your kids to private school, I'm not going to blame you.

cynthia1848

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2014, 02:49:24 PM »
We have paid for preschool for our older two and will do so for #3 as well.  They go 3-5 days a week depending on how old they are.  Our preschool runs around $6000/year per kid.

We live in a good school district and will hopefully not have to consider a private school.  (those run $30K/yr around here - we would probably rather move first.)

acroy

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2014, 02:57:39 PM »
I pay for public schooling via taxes, but we homeschool.

No regrets; excellent investment for all involved.

Do you ever just go a little 'nuts' though with the kids always being home? How do you maintain your sanity? When do you get things done, chores, running errands etc.
 I will be honest here and say I love the time my almost 3 year old is out of the house. I do still have her younger sister to take care of, but 1 kid is easier then my normal 2 through 5.

YES :)
But we deal with it. I work full-time and get home most days by 5. I take care of the kids (play, dinner, bath etc) so SAHM can go teach at the gym (she's a badass!) & get a break. She bears the brunt of child-rearing and it does drive her a bit nuts at times. I try to give her a break and every now and then, we take a step back and consider what is really important & worthwhile doing right in this life/world. Childrearing is pretty darn high up the list.

FYI we have 5 (ages 8,5, twin4, 3), and kiddo #6 on the way! whooo!!

honestly wouldn't trade it for anything. Best life ever :)

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2014, 03:02:03 PM »
:(  - we are debating between sending the kid (13 months) to school soon and the wife returning to work ... or just here keep on being a SAHM.

This thread didn't really help either way. On the fence about this so much. :-/

justajane

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2014, 03:07:03 PM »
:(  - we are debating between sending the kid (13 months) to school soon and the wife returning to work ... or just here keep on being a SAHM.

This thread didn't really help either way. On the fence about this so much. :-/

This is such an intensely personal decision that it's not surprising that these stories didn't directly help. But why don't you start a new thread or review some of the older threads where SAHPs discussed this issue more directly?

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2014, 03:10:41 PM »
:(  - we are debating between sending the kid (13 months) to school soon and the wife returning to work ... or just here keep on being a SAHM.

This thread didn't really help either way. On the fence about this so much. :-/

This is such an intensely personal decision that it's not surprising that these stories didn't directly help. But why don't you start a new thread or review some of the older threads where SAHPs discussed this issue more directly?

Definitely a very personal decision to make. We both keep going back and forth. I thought about making a case study for it but I believe the answers will be exactly 50-50.

thepokercab

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2014, 04:02:21 PM »
:(  - we are debating between sending the kid (13 months) to school soon and the wife returning to work ... or just here keep on being a SAHM.

This thread didn't really help either way. On the fence about this so much. :-/

This is such an intensely personal decision that it's not surprising that these stories didn't directly help. But why don't you start a new thread or review some of the older threads where SAHPs discussed this issue more directly?

Definitely a very personal decision to make. We both keep going back and forth. I thought about making a case study for it but I believe the answers will be exactly 50-50.

Yeah, the answer here is going to vary widely.  People on the forums seem to range from homeschooling, to public school, to private school, with just about every dollar amount justified in between.  Throw in other factors such as special needs and/or location and its just hard to come up with a rule as simple as "cut cable" or "cut the cell phone". 

Seems to me that the only mustachian rule here would be that if you have hair on fire debt you probably shouldn't be forking over thousands of dollars a year in school costs.  Other than that, its pretty much about what your values are and how you want to direct your spending to reflect those values. 

Gin1984

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2014, 04:22:58 PM »
What MMM does not really address (nor any Mustachians, that I can find), is how a double income family can save so much with child care being so expensive. MMM had the foresight to not have children until he was FI, but most people have kids already, and that means daycare. Currently, my wife and I spend $1650 a month for 2 kids childcare expenses. This price is actually lower than last year because my oldest just started half day kindergarten. Last year we were paying close to $2000 per month. We don't live near family, and we cannot imagine putting our kids into some crappy childcare facility (you know the one, called Nana Banana's fun fun childcare or some garbage for $450 a month). What do other people do?
Our daughter goes to daycare for $180/week, we live almost completely on my husband's (higher) salary and my salary pays for daycare and investing.  We still put away about 30%.  Works for us.

tracylayton

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2014, 04:31:32 PM »
Lucky enough to be in a great Public School District, so I don't... but I would if we weren't in such a good district.

Gin1984

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2014, 04:32:29 PM »
We don't have kids yet, but we are saving for their tuition and planning sending them to private schools. We might change our mind later, but here's reasons why we are considering private school:

- The house in a good school district easily costs 1.5m+ in SF bay area, $400k more compared with a house close by of similar size but locate on the other side of the street with a worse school district. $400k is more than enough sending 2 children to a very good private school.
- When we send children to private school, we always reserve the option to send them back to public school. But, I have heard if children go to public elementary and middle school, it is almost impossible for them to get in private high school.
- We value high on Christian school, because of zero tolerance on bad behavior and teachers are generally more loving. It's not so expensive an no public school options available.
- Our family does not live close by and both my husband and I do not consider giving up working, so we need to send children to daycare/preschool anyway.
I went to Catholic school in the Bay Area, all the way through.  It is not impossible, just much, much harder.  At least in the Catholic school they separate it in a few piles Catholic in a Catholic school (highest priority), then Catholic in Christian school, and Catholics in a non-Catholic Christian school, then other religions in Christians school, then Catholics in public school and then non-Catholics in public.  The lower you go in these piles, the higher you need your scores, grades, essay etc have to be.  Keep in mind, sixteen years ago they only accepted 1/3 applicants and I'll be honest, very few were public school kids.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 04:57:01 PM by Gin1984 »

coffeelover

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2014, 06:38:59 PM »
:(  - we are debating between sending the kid (13 months) to school soon and the wife returning to work ... or just here keep on being a SAHM.

This thread didn't really help either way. On the fence about this so much. :-/

Is wife going a little batty staying at home every day? Does she need/require time away from the child to recuperate? If those answers are yes then I would suggest getting a part time job. Even if that job is only paying for daycare it will help wife feel better about her self and it also offers benefits to the child. Such as socialization, play time with other people, structure, even learning from other kids.

I do highly recommend that you tour a ton of places. Don't just go with one that has 20 kids per 2 teachers. Those can get highly chaotic and may not be so beneficial for your kiddo.

I used to be only pro day care centers. Then I had issues with some and switched to a home daycare center. Even though I don't work anymore we still use this lady when needed. (I'm sickly lately and have tons of doctor appts, surgeries and doc visits are helping and hope to well soon, no dying before we can retire :)
We love our daycare lady and we trust her. She is literally our kid's second home away from home. The kids play and play and play there. Not much preschool time, but tons of playing and that's still a great learning tool as well.

Oh and I'm a sahm too. As of July 2013 I quit my great job and now I do this as my job. I go a little crazy some days and those days I wonder why in the world my husband and I made this decision for me to stay home. Then I remember the horrible commute, the running to get the kid as quick as possible, trying to nurse and pump while at work. Run home and do dinner and get kid in bed after 4 meltdowns. (my almost 3 year old has some behavior issues and she would have meltdown after meltdown from the time she was very small) Early On highly recommended I get her into a preschool and so that is what we did. It helps her so much, plus it helps me too.

I hoped I helped your decision some, good luck.

tracylayton

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2014, 06:47:38 PM »
:(  - we are debating between sending the kid (13 months) to school soon and the wife returning to work ... or just here keep on being a SAHM.

This thread didn't really help either way. On the fence about this so much. :-/

Is wife going a little batty staying at home every day? Does she need/require time away from the child to recuperate? If those answers are yes then I would suggest getting a part time job. Even if that job is only paying for daycare it will help wife feel better about her self and it also offers benefits to the child. Such as socialization, play time with other people, structure, even learning from other kids.

I do highly recommend that you tour a ton of places. Don't just go with one that has 20 kids per 2 teachers. Those can get highly chaotic and may not be so beneficial for your kiddo.

I used to be only pro day care centers. Then I had issues with some and switched to a home daycare center. Even though I don't work anymore we still use this lady when needed. (I'm sickly lately and have tons of doctor appts, surgeries and doc visits are helping and hope to well soon, no dying before we can retire :)
We love our daycare lady and we trust her. She is literally our kid's second home away from home. The kids play and play and play there. Not much preschool time, but tons of playing and that's still a great learning tool as well.

Oh and I'm a sahm too. As of July 2013 I quit my great job and now I do this as my job. I go a little crazy some days and those days I wonder why in the world my husband and I made this decision for me to stay home. Then I remember the horrible commute, the running to get the kid as quick as possible, trying to nurse and pump while at work. Run home and do dinner and get kid in bed after 4 meltdowns. (my almost 3 year old has some behavior issues and she would have meltdown after meltdown from the time she was very small) Early On highly recommended I get her into a preschool and so that is what we did. It helps her so much, plus it helps me too.

I hoped I helped your decision some, good luck.

I went back to work from 9 to 3 everyday when they opened up a 1 year old class at the church's preschool and my youngest was 13 months old. Best decision for both of us! I enjoyed working 5 hours a day, and he loved playing with other kids. That could definitely be a win/win...never felt guilty because he literally ran into his classroom everyday!

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2014, 08:27:12 PM »
posting from phone so short response for now, sorry.... but type of work did you find for that type of shift? thanks


will respond promptly from computer tomorrow. appreciate the insight from everyone.

coffeelover

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2014, 08:29:43 PM »
posting from phone so short response for now, sorry.... but type of work did you find for that type of shift? thanks


will respond promptly from computer tomorrow. appreciate the insight from everyone.

I'm curious about this too.. What type of work and was the pay worth it, or was it just nice to get out of the house?

oldtoyota

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2014, 08:54:11 PM »
I bought a cheap house in a not-so-great 'hood, so I send my kid to private school. If we'd bought a house in an expensive neighborhood--which around here would be $500K-$1.5MM for a normal-sized home--then we would have sent the kiddo to public.

I'm pretty sure I save money doing it this way.



Stellar

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2014, 12:02:16 PM »
We pay for our daughter to go to a good preschool.  Undecided yet if we will pay for elementary or not, we live in quite a good public school district and her school would be only about a mile from our house so I am leaning toward no.

I don't think paying for good education for your children is face punch worthy.  I think too often 'mustasianism' is implied to be synonymous with 'not spending money on anything that isn't bare bones necessary'.  I don't view it this way, I think it means not wasting money on things you really don't care about, so that you have the money for things that are important, like your child's education.  So no face punch from my perspective.

I've wrestled with this.  My daughter will be able to attend public school next year (kindergarten).  She's blossomed quite at her current Catholic school and I'm completely freaked out that she will not have the same warm attention in public school.  I'm pretty sure this fear is completely irrational.  She's my first and only child.  Her education is probably around $4500 a year when you include uniforms and such.

I did email the principle at the school down the street  but I just was not left with much comfort from his responses.

Chasing good districts just means moving even further away from work.  My SO and I are already 25+ miles from each of our jobs in opposite directions.  Gotta love Houston!

GizmoTX

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2014, 12:27:52 PM »
Do you lose your place at the Catholic school if you decide to try public school?

I'd want to actually do a daytime tour of any prospective school, public or private. Don't take your child until you think you have made a choice.

GardenFun

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2014, 12:41:11 PM »
Do you lose your place at the Catholic school if you decide to try public school?

I'd want to actually do a daytime tour of any prospective school, public or private. Don't take your child until you think you have made a choice.

It's based on the demand in the area.  Around here, the elementary/middle Catholic schools are advertising heavily for students.  Two elementary schools were already closed. 

The Catholic and Lutheran high schools are known more for college-prep than purely religious influences, so they can be more selective.   

 

MOC

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2014, 01:12:06 PM »
I was talking about this with my wife the other day and I think I have more questions that answers.

I understand paying for preschool (especially if both parents are working), but can't figure out why to send kids to private school beyond that. My big question is what makes the private school better? Unless the school is a pipeline to Harvard, is the cost worth it? Plenty of kids from my public high school went to elite private universities, including Ivy Leagues. Is it to ensure your kids are in with a certain social class? I can't figure out what makes a private school so much better that you'd want to essentially pay for college for 15-20 years.

If you work hard as a parent and choose a decent public school, your kid will likely succeed. Finally, part of this Mustachianism thing is to focus on productivity instead of consumerism, and quality of life financial obligation. I'm not sure you'd have to work that much harder as a parent if your kid is in public school, but assuming you do - is that a bad thing? You get to be a bigger part of your child's life and presumably have more time/less stress because you're not paying for his or her school.

Finally - allow me to wax philosophic. These days it feels like parents (I have a little girl) face more and more pressure to do the very best for thier children. At the same time we have less time. The sad irony of it all is that the best we can do for our children is be there and guide them into adulthood, yet we're depending on others more and more to do that (schools, coaches, etc...). I just wonder if the private school thing is really worth it. Will it really be better for your kid? Will it allow you to reach your full potential as a parent?

lhamo

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2014, 05:00:56 PM »
I somehow missed this thread the first time.

We currently pay for private school for our two kids to the tune of $55-60k/year out of pocket (depending on if you include extras like music lessons, etc).  It would be even higher than that but DH gets a $10k/year/kid subsidy from his employer.  It basically means I am LOSING money by working -- my take home doesn't even cover the cost.  However, for the moment we feel it is worth the investment.  We tried both the local school route (DS's first grade), which was an unmitigated disaster, and a cheaper private school (not quite a disaster, but definitely not a success) and did extensive research about what other options there were before choosing their current school.  Aside from the cost, which is staggering, we are happy with it.  Both kids are doing very well academically and are finally feeling a bit challenged.  They have settled in well socially as well.  One minor issue is that obviously most of their peers come from families of significant means and/or generous expat packages.  We are by no means poor, but live a much more modest lifestyle.  DS already has a very mini-MMM mindset, and deals with the social aspects of the difference well, DD not so much yet. 

For now this is the solution that allows us to stay in Beijing with our current jobs.  As noted in my journal and elsewhere, I'm not sure how long this configuration will last.  Certainly the high cost of appropriate schooling is one factor that is strongly pushing me at least to want to leave Beijing. 

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Face punch worthy? Who here pays for kids schooling?
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2014, 05:19:31 PM »
My oldest in particular really struggled in school. We tried a few before pulling the plug and homeschooling. At home, she gets a teacher:child ration of 1:3. You can't buy that without $$$$$ and she thrives now.