Author Topic: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)  (Read 5215 times)

Gatzbie

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Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« on: August 04, 2016, 02:11:50 PM »
I'm 21 and trying to make one of the most important decisions in life, what I am going to do for a career, I see 3 paths.

1.) Work, sell my soul doing stuff I don't like and retire in my 50's/60's - No Thanks
2.) Work, sell my soul for 10-15 years while investing my money in index funds/real estate, retire in my 30's, then do what I want with life
3.) Work, do something I enjoy doing while investing my money in index funds/real estate and (if I make enough money to be able to invest) possibly retire early

Its so obvious that the third path is the right path (following your heart), but why do so many people in the world not go down it?  Is it because it is more dangerous and there may be less of a guarantee on how much money you make depending on what your passion is?

I've read threads on here where people are doing jobs they don't like at all and want to retire early as possible to get out of these jobs in order to finally be able to live their lives .... but why not just find something you enjoy doing and start living life now?

Retiring early is great. My concern is how to approach it without selling your soul doing a job you don't like. Following your heart, you might make good money to retire early and you might not.... thats something I'm trying to work out here personally.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 02:28:49 PM by Gatzbie »

CmFtns

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Re: Why would you want to retire early? (Serious)
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2016, 02:23:08 PM »
Some people find a #2 paying job with the #3 job enjoyment and then choose to retire because although they enjoy their job, there are other things they want to do in their life too.

To me I don't necessarily enjoy my job but I believe that any job becomes tedious even if you start out enjoying it. Most jobs would require me to work full time and full time does not allow me time/freedom to do other things... I don't want to do ANY 1 thing for 40 hours a week except maybe sleep.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2016, 02:31:00 PM »
Not everybody can get a #3 job.

MoonLiteNite

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2016, 02:40:32 PM »
edit: Wrong forum post. Sorry
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 03:40:42 PM by MoonLiteNite »

MoonLiteNite

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2016, 02:44:31 PM »
1.) Work, sell my soul doing stuff I don't like and retire in my 50's/60's - No Thanks
2.) Work, sell my soul for 10-15 years while investing my money in index funds/real estate, retire in my 30's, then do what I want with life
3.) Work, do something I enjoy doing while investing my money in index funds/real estate and (if I make enough money to be able to invest) possibly retire early
without selling your soul doing a job you don't like. Following your heart, you might make good money to retire early and you might not.... thats something I'm trying to work out here personally.

Each case has its own requirements.

1 - almost anyone can do this one
2 - You HAVE to have a high enough paying job where you can save 60% of your money. Or be crazy low on the spending to the point where i believe in MMM draws the lines
3 - Sure, anyone can do this? Basically get a job you like, and if you don't mind doing it until retirement age or whatever. No big deal.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 03:16:38 PM by MoonLiteNite »

MoonLiteNite

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2016, 02:45:53 PM »
Not everybody can get a #3 job.

Lies, i have a job i love. I just do not like my crazy 80 work weeks.
I also loved my job as a pizza delivery driver, it actually paid OK. I was really thinking about staying with that and just do that until i retired at age 60.

CmFtns

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Re: Why would you want to retire early? (Serious)
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2016, 02:53:19 PM »
Some people find a #2 paying job with the #3 job enjoyment and then choose to retire because although they enjoy their job, there are other things they want to do in their life too.

To me I don't necessarily enjoy my job but I believe that any job becomes tedious even if you start out enjoying it. Most jobs would require me to work full time and full time does not allow me time/freedom to do other things... I don't want to do ANY 1 thing for 40 hours a week except maybe sleep.

Have you had a job before that you truly loved? I've had a summer job for the last 5 years where the people I worked with (older full time guys) made the job fun and I enjoyed it everyday 40 hours a week. Made good $$ too (for my age).  Yea the work was the same and boring, but the people I was with made it fun despite this. That in itself overid the boring work 10x.

You can't mix #2 and #3. That would be selling your soul and somehow enjoying your job at the same time?  The only thing you would enjoy was knowing you will be free eventually due to the likely guaranteed income.

To answer your question... No I've thoroughly not enjoyed all 5 jobs I've had in my life but don't try to convince me to go off into the wild west of job search to try to find that perfect love filled job. First of all I can not know the scenario of my next job so I'm risking getting into something I dislike even more. Secondly, If you have an adequate combination of pay, low cost of living, and a partner that's totally on board then your 10-15 years turns in to 5-6 years.

That's too short of a time to fuck around with career worries and job hopping when I could just be free to do anything that soon.

GuitarStv

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2016, 02:54:16 PM »
Quote
3.) Work, do something I enjoy doing while investing my money in index funds/real estate and (if I make enough money to be able to invest) possibly retire early

You change over time.  What you enjoy doing out of university won't necessarily be what you enjoy doing ten years from now.  But ten years from now starting a completely different career probably means taking a huge pay cut, grinding your way up from the bottom, and you likely don't have many/any contacts to help you get a first job in that field.

I think it's common for #3 to morph into #2 or #1.

Systems101

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Re: How To Properly Approach Early Retirement?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2016, 02:55:54 PM »
Its so obvious that the third path is the right path (following your heart), but why do so many people in the world not go down it?

Tell me where your heart is pointed? ... and tell me where it will be pointed in 20 years?

Here is one of the major risks you face: At least part of the delta between #2 and #3 (or even #1 and #3 depending on the salary) can only be established with hindsight.  It's such a fascinating mix of discovering yourself, your skills, having the right colleagues, being in the right location, relationship and life outside of work, etc.  It's like saying "follow your heart" and then using the definition of love you had at 14 to establish a relationship at 40.  It's not going to last, because our definition of "love" changes and adapts.  We learn.  The same will happen on your career path... your heart for your job will be in a different point in 10 years than it is today.

Once you've started down a path, you may transition between the states you list without making any choices of your own.  The summer job you had with different people (once those ones retire) might be a grind.  You may have a significant income, built upon existing experience.  "Jumping ship" is a risk, in many ways... it's change, which it's easy to resist... potentially taking a major pay cut... swapping to something else you *think* will be a #3, but if you're wrong the next transition may be #3 to #1 rather than #3 to #2, but you're no longer 100% sure, because you once thought what you WERE doing was a #3.

Back when I started programming, the software world gathered requirements and then wrote software.  We now refer to that as a "waterfall" process.  It lives under the (very faulty) assumption that people know the requirements of what they are asking the programmers to build.

They don't.

Customers stink at providing requirements.  (Apologies to my customers - really, we love you)

Software has now embraced a more "agile" methodology, where very short sprints (usually in the range of 4 weeks) run through cycles of requirements prioritization and doing the work.  So as requirements change, as they always do, the software being written can adapt to that change as well.  While not perfect, it certainly gives a lot more agility.

My one piece of advice: Think of your career in this way.  Don't do it in "too short" increments, or you'll be accused of job jumping, but be willing to change if it's not working.  MMM tendencies (spend less than you earn) enable that flexibility.   If you are willing to adapt, you are more likely to find and sustain a #3... wherever your heart is pointed at that time...


Gatzbie

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Re: How To Properly Approach Early Retirement?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2016, 03:11:33 PM »
Its so obvious that the third path is the right path (following your heart), but why do so many people in the world not go down it?

Tell me where your heart is pointed? ... and tell me where it will be pointed in 20 years?

Here is one of the major risks you face: At least part of the delta between #2 and #3 (or even #1 and #3 depending on the salary) can only be established with hindsight.  It's such a fascinating mix of discovering yourself, your skills, having the right colleagues, being in the right location, relationship and life outside of work, etc.  It's like saying "follow your heart" and then using the definition of love you had at 14 to establish a relationship at 40.  It's not going to last, because our definition of "love" changes and adapts.  We learn.  The same will happen on your career path... your heart for your job will be in a different point in 10 years than it is today.

Once you've started down a path, you may transition between the states you list without making any choices of your own.  The summer job you had with different people (once those ones retire) might be a grind.  You may have a significant income, built upon existing experience.  "Jumping ship" is a risk, in many ways... it's change, which it's easy to resist... potentially taking a major pay cut... swapping to something else you *think* will be a #3, but if you're wrong the next transition may be #3 to #1 rather than #3 to #2, but you're no longer 100% sure, because you once thought what you WERE doing was a #3.

Back when I started programming, the software world gathered requirements and then wrote software.  We now refer to that as a "waterfall" process.  It lives under the (very faulty) assumption that people know the requirements of what they are asking the programmers to build.

They don't.

Customers stink at providing requirements.  (Apologies to my customers - really, we love you)

Software has now embraced a more "agile" methodology, where very short sprints (usually in the range of 4 weeks) run through cycles of requirements prioritization and doing the work.  So as requirements change, as they always do, the software being written can adapt to that change as well.  While not perfect, it certainly gives a lot more agility.

My one piece of advice: Think of your career in this way.  Don't do it in "too short" increments, or you'll be accused of job jumping, but be willing to change if it's not working.  MMM tendencies (spend less than you earn) enable that flexibility.   If you are willing to adapt, you are more likely to find and sustain a #3... wherever your heart is pointed at that time...

Great post, thank you.  This definitely isn't an easy topic.

 I have no idea as of now (can find out) 20 years from now I have no clue, doing some soul searching (Have tried many different things so far over my last 3 college years (Police unpaid internship for a summer, accounting internship, orthopedic surgeon and dermatology job shadows). applied for scholarships and randomly received a huge accounting scholarship that was renewed recently.  I'm trying to go back through these experiences and am thinking about what I liked/didn't like about them as of now.

I can get the accounting degree for the hell of it to say I have a bachelors degree (free college why not?) doesn't mean I'll be an accountant though. Nothing stopping me from studying what I'm more interested in on the side.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 03:22:30 PM by Gatzbie »

Gatzbie

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2016, 03:19:34 PM »
Quote
3.) Work, do something I enjoy doing while investing my money in index funds/real estate and (if I make enough money to be able to invest) possibly retire early

You change over time.  What you enjoy doing out of university won't necessarily be what you enjoy doing ten years from now.  But ten years from now starting a completely different career probably means taking a huge pay cut, grinding your way up from the bottom, and you likely don't have many/any contacts to help you get a first job in that field.

I think it's common for #3 to morph into #2 or #1.

Following your heart 100% would mean taking the pay cut. Easy to say, would be hard to do haha. Its less logical to follow your heart but "feels" right and definitely more dangerous.

okits

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2016, 03:20:57 PM »
#3 can become#1 or #2 through a change in circumstance (industry, management, the "extra" stuff you have to do to monetize something you love) or an unforeseen inability to live with what #3 gives you (pay, hours/lifestyle, prestige).

I think there's a moderate correlation between work people generally enjoy and the pay awarded.  If lots of people are getting enjoyment out of an activity you probably don't have to pay much (or anything) to have them do it. 

Gatzbie

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2016, 03:38:33 PM »
#3 can become#1 or #2 through a change in circumstance (industry, management, the "extra" stuff you have to do to monetize something you love) or an unforeseen inability to live with what #3 gives you (pay, hours/lifestyle, prestige).

I think there's a moderate correlation between work people generally enjoy and the pay awarded.  If lots of people are getting enjoyment out of an activity you probably don't have to pay much (or anything) to have them do it.

Yes, circumstances change, your heart might want something else and you would have to follow it despite the pay cuts or whatever that may come a long with it.  Rough stuff, the funny thing is it could work the other way. Following your heart could lead you to riches and then lead you away.  You don't know.


All That Glitters

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2016, 03:47:58 PM »
You might enjoy reading the book "Linchpin" by Seth Godin. Instead of focusing on exactly WHAT you do, it focuses on HOW you do your work in the world: the creativity, leadership, ingenuity and emotional investment you put into your work. These are the qualities that will help you enjoy your work much more, and also make you indispensable to the companies you work for - giving you more choice and more leverage for higher earnings.

I am 35 and I have literally probably had over 40 jobs in my life. The work I thought I would do when I was your age is so very different from where I've wound up now. The good news is that I've wound up in a BETTER place than I had imagined. Give your heart to the present moment, and your (unknown) future will surely bring more heart back to you.

Gatzbie

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2016, 04:16:46 PM »
You might enjoy reading the book "Linchpin" by Seth Godin. Instead of focusing on exactly WHAT you do, it focuses on HOW you do your work in the world: the creativity, leadership, ingenuity and emotional investment you put into your work. These are the qualities that will help you enjoy your work much more, and also make you indispensable to the companies you work for - giving you more choice and more leverage for higher earnings.

I am 35 and I have literally probably had over 40 jobs in my life. The work I thought I would do when I was your age is so very different from where I've wound up now. The good news is that I've wound up in a BETTER place than I had imagined. Give your heart to the present moment, and your (unknown) future will surely bring more heart back to you.

"Instead of focusing on exactly WHAT you do, it focuses on HOW you do your work in the world." Thats true, I think most jobs can get boring like mine did pretty fast. But HOW we did the job made it very enjoyable. Looks like a perfect book for my life  situation and there is an audio version on audible... perfect :)   

FIKristen

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2016, 04:38:05 PM »
You might find out that following your heart works out financially as well.   I retired in my early 30s, but I didn't originally think it would work out that way.

When I was 21, I had two job offers I was seriously considering:  one with a mega consulting company.  The other paid measly 34,000 per year but I was passionate about it and it had the potential to help people and the planet. "Oh well." I said.  "I'd rather do something good with my life than get rich."   I took the latter.  I never regretted it, and down the road it wound up paying pretty well - because I was passionate about my work, I was good at it, and that resulted in increasing responsibility/raises that I don't think I would ever have received if I took a job I didn't give a sh*t about.   Consider that when considering your field.

 I lived frugally but made some big mistakes - bought a condo at the height of the bubble, paid way too much on refinancing fees, and spent a lot of money on bars/restaurants that I regret.   Fortunately living with roommates, avoiding credit card debit, and biking or taking public transit made up for a lot of these errors.   You're way ahead: I didn't become serious about saving until I was in my mid-20s, and you've already got it dialed in at 21.

If you decide to follow your passion instead of just a dollar signs, some tips:
1. live with roommates as long as is excusable.  Many people make the mistake of thinking they need their own place to show that they're an "adult."  That's bullshit. 
2. Mind who you date: financial irresponsibility may be reflective of irresponsibility in other areas too (I found out the hard way).
3. IF you buy a home down the road, buy with the intent of having a roommate  or two that cover your costs.  If you aren't willing to do that, renting is almost always cheaper.
4. Follow the other sage advice of MMM and we'll be welcoming you to the early retirement club before you know it.





Gatzbie

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2016, 04:58:31 PM »
You might find out that following your heart works out financially as well.   I retired in my early 30s, but I didn't originally think it would work out that way.

When I was 21, I had two job offers I was seriously considering:  one with a mega consulting company.  The other paid measly 34,000 per year but I was passionate about it and it had the potential to help people and the planet. "Oh well." I said.  "I'd rather do something good with my life than get rich."   I took the latter.  I never regretted it, and down the road it wound up paying pretty well - because I was passionate about my work, I was good at it, and that resulted in increasing responsibility/raises that I don't think I would ever have received if I took a job I didn't give a sh*t about.   Consider that when considering your field.

 I lived frugally but made some big mistakes - bought a condo at the height of the bubble, paid way too much on refinancing fees, and spent a lot of money on bars/restaurants that I regret.   Fortunately living with roommates, avoiding credit card debit, and biking or taking public transit made up for a lot of these errors.   You're way ahead: I didn't become serious about saving until I was in my mid-20s, and you've already got it dialed in at 21.

If you decide to follow your passion instead of just a dollar signs, some tips:
1. live with roommates as long as is excusable.  Many people make the mistake of thinking they need their own place to show that they're an "adult."  That's bullshit. 
2. Mind who you date: financial irresponsibility may be reflective of irresponsibility in other areas too (I found out the hard way).
3. IF you buy a home down the road, buy with the intent of having a roommate  or two that cover your costs.  If you aren't willing to do that, renting is almost always cheaper.
4. Follow the other sage advice of MMM and we'll be welcoming you to the early retirement club before you know it.


Wow..thank you very much for sharing your story. Your post has been incredibily inspiring to me.

redbird

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2016, 05:29:09 PM »
Not everybody can get a #3 job.

This. Pretty much everything I would've liked to do as a job pays either very little or nothing at all. Those types of jobs don't help you retire early.

I did the next best thing I could find; option 2 (work a job I didn't like but paid very well, retired early in my 30's).

mozar

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2016, 05:40:51 PM »
When I graduated from college I followed my heart and went into techinical theatre (sound design). It was part time and I hated my job because of the people. My other part time job was as a barista. Which I loved. I still miss that job. But I was making 9k a year and there was no way I could have any kind of life with that salary. It was fun when I had 4 roommates and I mostly ate junk food but I didn't want to live that way forever. So I went to grad school for accounting and found my way into consulting. My job right now is really cushy: 2 days of telework, short commute, meaningful work (helping the federal government improve their policies/processes), and lots of autonomy to do what I want, when I want. Even with all that I still want to retire early as possible.

I think it also has to do with what kind of safety net you have. I have no safety net, if I don't make money I have nothing. But if I was less worried about amassing a safety net because I had other people I could depend on or got an inheritance then sure I could see pursuing something I find more interesting and being able to wait and see if I can make money at it.
I know lots of people my age (30s) who are following their passions, but they got their inheritances first.

boarder42

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2016, 06:38:01 PM »
I like my job a lot I loved my former job minus the 50% travel. I enjoy the game of fire. And the flexibility it gives. You act like these are mutually exclusive. You can have 2&3 together. We make high incomes in a LCOL easily save 60-70 each year and both like our jobs but the idea of societal norms and 9-5s doesn't work for me. If I work I'd prefer on my own terms. This is a massive planet with lots to experience and I want to see and do it all which doesn't work with a 9-5 til 65. But at 37 hell yeah. Next chapter 

Gatzbie

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2016, 07:25:09 PM »
Not everybody can get a #3 job.

This. Pretty much everything I would've liked to do as a job pays either very little or nothing at all. Those types of jobs don't help you retire early.

I did the next best thing I could find; option 2 (work a job I didn't like but paid very well, retired early in my 30's).

Yep, thats exactly the conflict situation I was describing.  Take option 2 or choose to do a low paying job that you enjoy and may or may not find success in increasing the income from it thus not retiring early and still be okay with that because you are following your heart.

I like my job a lot I loved my former job minus the 50% travel. I enjoy the game of fire. And the flexibility it gives. You act like these are mutually exclusive. You can have 2&3 together. We make high incomes in a LCOL easily save 60-70 each year and both like our jobs but the idea of societal norms and 9-5s doesn't work for me. If I work I'd prefer on my own terms. This is a massive planet with lots to experience and I want to see and do it all which doesn't work with a 9-5 til 65. But at 37 hell yeah. Next chapter 

Sounds like you are doing a job you really enjoy but just don't like the not working on your own terms aspect of it? Like having to work certain hours etc.  (I love the idea of early retirement because it solves both of those issues as in: working a job you do regardless if it pays well or not under your own terms because regardless, you are collecting passive income). What I mean by selling your soul is doing a job you don't enjoy and still have to deal with not getting to work on your own terms either on top of that. Some people face this situation because their passion doesn't pay well and the can't find a way to make it generate more income.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 07:35:02 PM by Gatzbie »

deborah

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2016, 10:45:58 PM »
As people have said #3 can change. You can change. The people working with you can make your life hell, even when you love your job. The world can decide that job no longer needs to exist.

FIstateofmind

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2016, 12:48:50 AM »
posting to follow (sorry for laziness)

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2016, 02:41:24 AM »
Not everybody can get a #3 job.

Lies, i have a job i love. I just do not like my crazy 80 work weeks.

But that is different to me loving your job.

Loving a job is as much a personality thing as it is the work itself. My OH loved a job that I found utterly soul destroying, and has loved most of his jobs. I have never loved a job, I believe that I never will, I'm just not wired that way. I spent three months unpaid volunteering and loved that; they offered to start paying me and I quickly grew to hate it and had to make some changes.

MrsPete

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2016, 06:12:40 AM »
You're thinking in very black and white terms:

- Not everyone has "a passion" for anything work related.  One of my children does, one of my children doesn't; they were just born that way.  People who DO have "a passion" for something work related tend not to understand that they're in the minority.  Similarly, people with an entrepreneurial streak tend not to understand that everyone doesn't have a great idea and the business sense to start a company -- and that this isn't really something that can be taught. 

- Jobs aren't divided into soul-sucking vs. perfect.  You don't need to stay in a job that you find horrible, but expecting perfection is unrealistic.  Find something "in between". 

- Even if you have a job about which you're passionate, as someone else said, it's easy for a #3 job to morph into a #1 or 2.  For example, I have a little baking side job (and I am genuinely THE BEST).  People frequently tell me I should quit my job and do that full time.  I am not tempted:  Yes, I love baking, but with the quantity I do now, it's fun.  If I did it full time -- if I were forced to do it day in, day out -- it would become as tedious as my regular job.  Plus, I have no skills in marketing and business, and, to be successful, I'd have to take on those chores.  Yes, something that's fun for me now could easily morph into a #1 or 2. 

- Few of the things that people feel passionate about -- I'm thinking of music, acting, art -- pay well for the average person.  These tend to be great hobbies but poor career paths.  Something I think of frequently:  When I was new in my job, I whined to my grandmother about some aspect of my job requirements, and she said, "If it were always fun, they wouldn't have to pay you to do it."  That stuck with me. 

- Young people are coming out of school these days with something of a twisted idea about work:  They're essentially getting the idea that they are going TO BE their jobs.  That their jobs will be the most central aspect of their personalities and their whole identity will be tied up /summed up by their job choice.  They expect to find fulfillment and joy in their jobs.  I'm not sure exactly what combination of things in school and society is promoting this idea, but it's not something I believed when I graduated:  I expected my family and friends to be the center of my life and work to be one aspect of my life -- a time consuming and necessary aspect, yes, but not the center of my existence.  I expected work to give me a paycheck, not personal fulfillment.  I don't think this concept is widespread on this website, but ask yourself where you fall on this scale. 




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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2016, 09:10:56 AM »
You're thinking in very black and white terms:

- Not everyone has "a passion" for anything work related.  One of my children does, one of my children doesn't; they were just born that way.  People who DO have "a passion" for something work related tend not to understand that they're in the minority.  Similarly, people with an entrepreneurial streak tend not to understand that everyone doesn't have a great idea and the business sense to start a company -- and that this isn't really something that can be taught. 


+1 Until someone wants to start paying me to read books and spend time traveling with my husband, I will be in scenario #2. Yes, I could start a travel blog and try to monetize my travel, while doing what I love, but that sounds like work and then I wouldn't enjoy it anymore. I'd rather work at something I don't hate terribly, and then GTFO for good. 

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2016, 10:15:03 AM »
"When we do something for its own sake, because we enjoy it or because it fills some deep-seated desire, we are intrinsically motivated. On the other hand when we do something because we receive some reward, like a certificate or money, this is extrinsic motivation."

Shit Gatzbie. That 100% sums up my feelings about the whole matter. **Mind Blown**

Thanks for the link!

elaine amj

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2016, 10:43:41 AM »
Lots of ways to get where you want to go. I like a lot of different things and have learned the art of enjoying my work. I have had many "dream jobs" and it's been fabulous. My favorite was when my husband and I started up something to help folks in our local community. We made money through selling sponsorships and organizing events. It was VERY fulfilling. And working for ourselves meant we had a completely flexible schedule (worked from home). But I quickly discovered that while I am somewhat entrepreneurial, I hated having to always be intrinsically motivated and disliked the pressure and heavy responsibility of always being the person in charge. Plus, working for yourself is a LOT of work! What we did gave us a bit of a side income but we had trouble taking it to the next level (attempted 2 franchises but neither worked out). So I got a fulltime job and we sold it.

I still love my job and enjoy what I do. But now I'm ready to call it quits with no schedule and no demands to produce. I want to chill and spend my time doing other stuff. I've thought about switching to stuff like travel blogging or other online businesses but then I realize - that's just a job with another name! With deadlines and requirements. I am happy to put in the time and effort to save up enough to retire and live the rest of my life on my terms. I'm sure I'll still end up with deadlines and requirements (I always end up saying yes to various volunteering stuff) but I will also have the freedom to walk away (reality check - it has taken me 3 years to wriggle out of my position on the board of my son's soccer team *sigh*).

Anyway, I want FIRE so I can have choices of what I want to do with my time. DH hasn't cared as much because his thought was - "if you have nothing better to do, might as well go to work". But he's been home since March for medical issues. I think he LIKES being able to watch movies on the couch in the afternoons! He's been pretty busy with errands and appointments, but I know he is really enjoying not having to be responsible for work (even though he now has the job he dreamed of for years).

catccc

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Re: Following Your Heart and Early Retirement (Possible Conflict)
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2016, 11:11:07 AM »
I think there is a spectrum between job choices in option 2 and 3, or maybe more of a... coordinate plane for the options 2 & 3?

The spectrum (or maybe an axis), is a sell-your-soul job on one end, and dream job you love on the other.  Maybe there's something in the middle that isn't your passion, but you certainly enjoy it enough to do it weekday in and out and feel pretty happy about it.

The other axis I guess you've got earnings.

So, y-axis is earnings, low on the axis is low earnings, high on the axis is high earnings
the x-axis is jobs, the left end of the axis is a job you hate and your soul is black because of it, and the right end is dream occupation!

Your option #2 is in quadrant 2 (upper left): Soul sucking job, good pay.  Your option #3 is quadrant 4, lower right: job you love, low pay.  But wait, there are still two more quadrants!!!

I'm an accountant, but I work in the non-profit industry, like what I do, and make decent money.  I'm happily in sitting in quadrant 1 (upper right), biding my time until FIRE, maybe a little closer to the y-axis than someone else that immensely LOVES what they do for work.  But I'm still to the right of the y-axis, for sure.  Accounting suits me well and the way I think suits it well.  I like the organization I work for, and my coworkers are all cool.

Nobody should choose to be in quadrant 3, (lower left), that's just sad!