Author Topic: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?  (Read 1598 times)

mountain mustache

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I have a 2003 Honda Element. It is right on the edge of 200k miles, and over the past two years I have been dealing with $$$ repairs. I purchased this car in 2014 for $7k and have put about 70k miles on it (mostly long road trips to camp/bike, not daily commuting). The logical part of my brain knows that all of the repairs I have done are "wear parts" and when a car is reaching 200k it is normal for all of these things to need to be replaced. I have replaced all of the suspension, control arms, brakes, rotors, done a transmission flush, engine service, and now this year in January it got a new starter, a new CV axle on one side and I am heading to get a new ignition next week.

I am not a DIY person, so these repairs have all been done at (mostly) the same mechanic, who I trust and he does a great job. Doing things at home is not an option for me, I have severe chronic back pain, and am not interested at all. So I am *not* asking for suggestions on DIY repairs.

My thoughts right now are....I have basically replaced most of the "wear" items that you would expect for a high mileage vehicle. So...*if* the engine and transmission hold out, I would really like to push this car for another 50K miles if I can. I don't commute right now at all (because Covid) and likely won't until 2021. I don't drive my car every day, normally 2-3 times a week. I DO want my vehicle to be reliable, and that is where I start to question. Twice this year I have been stranded (starter, then ignition) and that stresses me out. I am saving for a new (used) vehicle, but the expensive repairs have stalled that progress. Is it realistic to keep driving this vehicle for a few more years? I am struggling with sunk cost...I have put this money into this car, it has brand new suspension, new starter, etc...it drives great! I don't want to get rid of it! BUT how many more $500-$1000 repairs can I swallow before it just isn't realistic anymore?

RWD

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You may want to ask your mechanic what he thinks the ongoing maintenance costs will be for the next ~50k miles as he's pretty familiar with your specific car. But it sounds like since you've replaced so much the car has a lot of life left, assuming nothing catastrophic breaks in the engine/transmission. As long as there are no signs of impending failure of a major component it'll likely be the best financial choice to hold on to it for as long as possible. Keep in mind that the reliability of a new (used) car is going to be a big unknown. There's a good chance your car is more reliability than most used cars you may purchase (until you spend a bunch on initial repairs for them).

An exercise you could do is add up your last year of expenses with the Element and then estimate what a newer used car would cost to own in comparison. Compare depreciation, maintenance/repairs, insurance, fuel, and registration/taxes. If it seems like you would definitely save money with a newer car then it's probably time to switch.

Ecky

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What exactly is the "ignition" your mechanic is replacing?

The Element has spark plugs (4) which are fired by 4 ignition coils, which are individually controlled by the computer. Even if one plug or coil pack fails, the car should still run, just very poorly. Is this instead the actual cylinder you put your key in?

That aside, the engine and transmission in the 2003 Element are very reliable in other vehicles that share them, such as the Accord. The Element is a bigger, heavier vehicle, but I would thing that if they aren't abused, major components such as engine and transmission should have well over 50,000 good miles left in them.

mountain mustache

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It is the ignition switch that you put your key in. Unfortunately annoyingly expensive since it comes with 2 new keys...even more annoying I replaced a key (for $90) first thinking that was the problem, and then found out it was the actual ignition cylinder.


LifeHappens

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I read your questions as more about psychology than money. Financially you want to keep the car going, but it's left you stranded a couple times now and that is quite stressful.

Can you keep the car going for a couple more years? It seems likely. Plenty of people have driven Hondas for over 250,000 miles.

SHOULD you hold on to it for a couple more years? That depends on a lot of factors like how easily you can handle being broken down, how remote your drives are, how much you rely on transportation to work and live, etc.

mountain mustache

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@LifeHappens  this exactly. I will say this last instance of being broken down happened in a very remote area of Colorado, where no one could help me, on a weekend, etc...and it was super stressful. I have roadside service, but they aren't well equipped to handle remote mountain areas, and I ended up getting miracle help from an Ace hardware of all places. But I live in a large city in AZ now (except for the summer) , and am not *normally* driving in remote areas anymore...I think rationally speaking, my car will totally make it to 250k, but I'm not sure if my sanity will...haha. I am not handy, and while I do have a few friends who can definitely help if I'm in a tight spot, I'd rather not *have* to ask. On the plus side, I don't need to commute right now, and won't for at least 6 to 9 to 12 to (who knows!) how many more months...so it seems like a good time to try to preserve my old car as long as possible. Financially I would be financing a used car at this point, not paying with cash, and I think at the moment that might stress me out *more* than my old car needing more repairs...maybe...

seemsright

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This is a classic case of how people stay in debt. Car issues can cost a ton. And you have had to pay for a ton of small things that have added up. Since you do not have to commute via car right now my advice is to save and save and see if you can save enough to buy a used car (which could have a ton of problems too) and wait till you do have too commute again and see how you feel then.

You 'should' be able to get more miles out of the Honda. But I agree that this is mental than anything. Do what ever you can to get out from under a car payment. Youtube can help you get more handy, it might be able to help save you some money.

Cars and housing is two big tickets that keep people stuck.

LifeHappens

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@LifeHappens  this exactly. I will say this last instance of being broken down happened in a very remote area of Colorado, where no one could help me, on a weekend, etc...and it was super stressful. I have roadside service, but they aren't well equipped to handle remote mountain areas, and I ended up getting miracle help from an Ace hardware of all places. But I live in a large city in AZ now (except for the summer) , and am not *normally* driving in remote areas anymore...I think rationally speaking, my car will totally make it to 250k, but I'm not sure if my sanity will...haha. I am not handy, and while I do have a few friends who can definitely help if I'm in a tight spot, I'd rather not *have* to ask. On the plus side, I don't need to commute right now, and won't for at least 6 to 9 to 12 to (who knows!) how many more months...so it seems like a good time to try to preserve my old car as long as possible. Financially I would be financing a used car at this point, not paying with cash, and I think at the moment that might stress me out *more* than my old car needing more repairs...maybe...
It does seem like this is a good time for you to baby the car along while you build up your purchase fund. In the short term you could also look at renting a car for remote trips.

mountain mustache

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This is a classic case of how people stay in debt. Car issues can cost a ton. And you have had to pay for a ton of small things that have added up. Since you do not have to commute via car right now my advice is to save and save and see if you can save enough to buy a used car (which could have a ton of problems too) and wait till you do have too commute again and see how you feel then.

You 'should' be able to get more miles out of the Honda. But I agree that this is mental than anything. Do what ever you can to get out from under a car payment. Youtube can help you get more handy, it might be able to help save you some money.

Cars and housing is two big tickets that keep people stuck.

I just want to clarify that I am not asking for advice on staying out of debt, nor have I ever been in or considered debt for a car. This is the first time this question has ever popped in my mind, and I am leaning heavily towards just trying to keep the car as long as possible... BUT if that was my last resort and my car was just plain dead, I don't think that financing an 8-10k car is the end of the world. It would definitely stress me out, because I have always paid cash for everything I own. But I think you can make far bigger financial mistakes in life. (just my opinion though, I know others have different philosophies)

Sorry for the ramble but the comment of "this is how people stay in debt" rubbed me the wrong way a bit because I never said I was in debt and that wasn't really the premise of this conversation at all.

Also I mentioned in my first post that I have severe chronic back pain and cannot do DIY repairs. I know there is so much information out there on fixing things at home and I really *want* to be that person, but unfortunately my health and wellbeing have to come over saving money on car repairs. I've been very hard on my body in my short life (20 years of endurance sports) and now I have to accept some expenses that come with that :/

researcher1

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I am saving for a new (used) vehicle, but the expensive repairs have stalled that progress.
How much money do you currently have in your emergency/new car fund?

I typically advocate for buying new, driving for 10-14 years, then selling the car private party BEFORE needing to dump a bunch of money to keep it going.
Though I always pay cash for my vehicles and perform 95% of the maintenance myself.

In your case, I think you should stick with this car for the short term. 
It doesn't sound like you have enough saved up to buy a new(er) car, so you might as well see how much longer you can go with your current car.
Start aggressively saving now so you can buy something else in the next year or two.


SunnyDays

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2020, 01:37:09 PM »
In Your Money or Your Life,  it said, "Do not wear things out until they wear you out."  Seems like you might be at that point.  So if you can reasonably afford another car, then get one.

mountain mustache

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2020, 02:12:27 PM »
I am saving for a new (used) vehicle, but the expensive repairs have stalled that progress.
How much money do you currently have in your emergency/new car fund?

I typically advocate for buying new, driving for 10-14 years, then selling the car private party BEFORE needing to dump a bunch of money to keep it going.
Though I always pay cash for my vehicles and perform 95% of the maintenance myself.

In your case, I think you should stick with this car for the short term. 
It doesn't sound like you have enough saved up to buy a new(er) car, so you might as well see how much longer you can go with your current car.
Start aggressively saving now so you can buy something else in the next year or two.

I was at about $1500, with a goal to reach about $5000 in 2-3 years, and then whatever I ended up selling the Element for would top off the fund to about $7k again. Now I am realizing I just haven't been saving aggressively enough, because I expected that my car would carry on for at least 5 more years while I was slowly saving the money. I've been prioritizing retirement savings, and an e-fund (which I am super happy to have!) but now I guess I will be prioritizing saving for a new car instead!

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2020, 02:21:58 PM »
I typically advocate for buying new, driving for 10-14 years, then selling the car private party BEFORE needing to dump a bunch of money to keep it going.

This is what I'm doing as well.  I bought a new small hatchback, will drive it for a long time (10-14 years for me is about 80,000 - 112,000 miles, so it might last longer), and will sell it or gift it to a child/grandchild before it gets to the point where I'm worried about being stranded or pouring money into an old car.  Some people are great in those situations, but I'm not.  I need the peace of mind that comes with it being unlikely my car will break down.  I don't do maintenance myself, but I do make sure it is done on time.  By the time this car needs to go, I'll be set to buy a new car cash again.


RWD

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2020, 02:41:10 PM »
Are you bucketing for different savings goals and have other liquid funds outside of the $1500 or is that it? You should have at least 3 months expenses saved up before prioritizing retirement accounts. See the investment order post. Buying a ~$10k car whether via cash or financing should be a non-issue with a proper buffer.

mountain mustache

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2020, 02:54:00 PM »
@RWD  I am saving for different things. I had a 6 month E fund saved up, and then had to float a few months of unemployment over the Winter before I got my new job in February. So since then I have been building back up to close to 3 months at this time, and the retirement savings definitely took a back burner. I would say my #1 priority over the past few months has been building up the E fund, really not focusing on retirement as much since I now have a 401k through work, and employer match. So my individual IRA contributions have lessened so I can focus on the E fund. But this means also my car fund hasn't grown as fast as I'd like, and I was hopeful my car would hang on without too many more major repairs, but things haven't worked out that way! At this point I am just going to eat the cost of the repairs and hope there aren't too many more big ones over the next few years while I save for the next car.

MilesTeg

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2020, 05:20:35 PM »
I have a 2003 Honda Element. It is right on the edge of 200k miles, and over the past two years I have been dealing with $$$ repairs. I purchased this car in 2014 for $7k and have put about 70k miles on it (mostly long road trips to camp/bike, not daily commuting). The logical part of my brain knows that all of the repairs I have done are "wear parts" and when a car is reaching 200k it is normal for all of these things to need to be replaced. I have replaced all of the suspension, control arms, brakes, rotors, done a transmission flush, engine service, and now this year in January it got a new starter, a new CV axle on one side and I am heading to get a new ignition next week.

I am not a DIY person, so these repairs have all been done at (mostly) the same mechanic, who I trust and he does a great job. Doing things at home is not an option for me, I have severe chronic back pain, and am not interested at all. So I am *not* asking for suggestions on DIY repairs.

My thoughts right now are....I have basically replaced most of the "wear" items that you would expect for a high mileage vehicle. So...*if* the engine and transmission hold out, I would really like to push this car for another 50K miles if I can. I don't commute right now at all (because Covid) and likely won't until 2021. I don't drive my car every day, normally 2-3 times a week. I DO want my vehicle to be reliable, and that is where I start to question. Twice this year I have been stranded (starter, then ignition) and that stresses me out. I am saving for a new (used) vehicle, but the expensive repairs have stalled that progress. Is it realistic to keep driving this vehicle for a few more years? I am struggling with sunk cost...I have put this money into this car, it has brand new suspension, new starter, etc...it drives great! I don't want to get rid of it! BUT how many more $500-$1000 repairs can I swallow before it just isn't realistic anymore?

Sounds like you have already dumped thousands of dollars into repairs (unless your mechanic has given you great deals). Unfortunately, without knowing the full use and service history of the vehicle and/or a thorough inspection it's impossible to say if you are good to go for a while or if your engine or transmission are on their last legs.

I don't know how much a thorough inspection would cost (never had one done on a vehicle) but that's where I would start if you want to keep this vehicle. Any consumer grade engine or transmission lasting much more than 200k is an exception not a rule. An exception based on high quality construction (even from the same maker quality varies with QA and how well the tooling at the factory was maintained), meticulous maintenance, and a relatively easy life.

sheepla

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2020, 07:04:53 AM »
As the owner of a 2004 Element with 229,000 miles on it, I'm not giving it up until it falls to pieces around me or Honda starts making Elements again! 

reverend

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2020, 10:42:15 PM »
You have a reliable car. You've replaced wear items that you'd have to replace on any car at that mileage.  What I would do is to get an oil analysis done next time you change the oil.  That will tell you how the engine is doing.  If it's wearing internally (valves, rings, valve guides, coolant, exhaust, crank bearings, etc.) it will be seen in the analysis and then you want to get rid of it.

If that checks out, then your engine is good and you'll only have these little annoyances that come with older cars.

Do the analysis (Blackstone Labs ~$35, make sure to include a TBN) and if it looks good, keep the car.


I have a 2003 Honda Element. It is right on the edge of 200k miles, and over the past two years I have been dealing with $$$ repairs. I purchased this car in 2014 for $7k and have put about 70k miles on it (mostly long road trips to camp/bike, not daily commuting). The logical part of my brain knows that all of the repairs I have done are "wear parts" and when a car is reaching 200k it is normal for all of these things to need to be replaced. I have replaced all of the suspension, control arms, brakes, rotors, done a transmission flush, engine service, and now this year in January it got a new starter, a new CV axle on one side and I am heading to get a new ignition next week.


mountain mustache

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2020, 02:16:27 PM »
You have a reliable car. You've replaced wear items that you'd have to replace on any car at that mileage.  What I would do is to get an oil analysis done next time you change the oil.  That will tell you how the engine is doing.  If it's wearing internally (valves, rings, valve guides, coolant, exhaust, crank bearings, etc.) it will be seen in the analysis and then you want to get rid of it.

If that checks out, then your engine is good and you'll only have these little annoyances that come with older cars.

Do the analysis (Blackstone Labs ~$35, make sure to include a TBN) and if it looks good, keep the car.


I have a 2003 Honda Element. It is right on the edge of 200k miles, and over the past two years I have been dealing with $$$ repairs. I purchased this car in 2014 for $7k and have put about 70k miles on it (mostly long road trips to camp/bike, not daily commuting). The logical part of my brain knows that all of the repairs I have done are "wear parts" and when a car is reaching 200k it is normal for all of these things to need to be replaced. I have replaced all of the suspension, control arms, brakes, rotors, done a transmission flush, engine service, and now this year in January it got a new starter, a new CV axle on one side and I am heading to get a new ignition next week.


Thank you for this advice...I'm guessing this is something my regular mechanic should be able to do? This would help me alleviate my major concern which is engine failure and/or transmission.

Goldielocks

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2020, 11:48:10 AM »
Two suggestions:

1)  Engine / Transmission issues, you have two choices - sell now while it is running well, or drive it into the ground.   The answer will depend a lot on how much you can get for it now.   My car has "ugly body" issues that drive down resale value so I think I am on the "drive it and scrap it" trend.  I have a minor headgasket drip that is too costly to repair but responds to the sealer fluids well.

2)  Get a plan for "stranded".   Note that the more you are "stranded", the easier it is to roll with it.   This means having the tow truck company on speed dial, using alternate transportation if you need to go long trips with little backup or for work specific things, planning extra time, having a friend on standby (or Uber budget), having a instant battery charger/jump if that tends to go on you, etc. 

If the car is mainly for personal use, you can easily mitigate the risk / impact of "stranded" due to minor issues.  If you need it to earn a living, (your career / reputation would be impacted if you are late) or have a very crunched schedule,(child care pickups, for example) it is time to think about a new(er) car.   

Ecky

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2020, 12:07:08 PM »
Thank you for this advice...I'm guessing this is something my regular mechanic should be able to do? This would help me alleviate my major concern which is engine failure and/or transmission.

I just had one done.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?session-id=a2yp2445nfjpys55jgb0gj55&timeout=20&bslauth&urlbase=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackstone-labs.net%2FBstone%2F%28S%28a2yp2445nfjpys55jgb0gj55%29%29%2F

You can order a free test kit from Blackstone Labs. They send you a prepaid container and all you do is drain a little bit of oil into it, close it up, slap the sticker on the outside, and drop it off at the post office. They'll send you an email with the results.

It's best to do when you're about to change your oil, ideally at the factory recommended interval, which is probably 7,500 or 10,000 miles.

RWD

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Re: Expensive repairs adding up...do I keep my older, high mileage car?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2020, 12:57:06 PM »
Thank you for this advice...I'm guessing this is something my regular mechanic should be able to do? This would help me alleviate my major concern which is engine failure and/or transmission.

I just had one done.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?session-id=a2yp2445nfjpys55jgb0gj55&timeout=20&bslauth&urlbase=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackstone-labs.net%2FBstone%2F%28S%28a2yp2445nfjpys55jgb0gj55%29%29%2F

You can order a free test kit from Blackstone Labs. They send you a prepaid container and all you do is drain a little bit of oil into it, close it up, slap the sticker on the outside, and drop it off at the post office. They'll send you an email with the results.

It's best to do when you're about to change your oil, ideally at the factory recommended interval, which is probably 7,500 or 10,000 miles.

I've posted a few of my oil analysis reports in my journal:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pursuing-rear-wheel-drive/msg2094249/#msg2094249
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pursuing-rear-wheel-drive/msg2429534/#msg2429534
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pursuing-rear-wheel-drive/msg2163344/#msg2163344
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pursuing-rear-wheel-drive/msg2487047/#msg2487047