Author Topic: ERE vs MMM for my life.  (Read 11387 times)

Mesmoiselle

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ERE vs MMM for my life.
« on: December 05, 2014, 06:58:58 PM »
I have the problem in which I seem to be trying to do two methods at once.

That's inefficient, and I agree, but one side is speculative, while the other side is moderately conforming.

My main goal is Fuck you money. I don't like my current job , Job A, but I think I would really like Job B. Job B requires a college degree (medical) no way around it. I went the trade school route and got my 48k job. My husband is now looking for his 40k (later 80k) job.

Option 1. Playing with FIRE calc, it seems like I could work 5 years at Job A ,combined with husband income to invest, and have a nice $500-$1000 per month passive income from index funds. But that is only IF I can achieve ERE levels of consumption leading up to, and of course, maintaining after. I would then happily not work while blasting through a bachelor's and then the masters program. Maybe a small amount of school debt if cheap living and husband income somehow not enough to cover tuition. Then work on my luxurious Stache in Job B and ER within 3 years if I feel like it. Hope to still love it but the minute I don't, I'd pretty very free
Total time: 12 years maximum.
Drawback: OMG, I really can't stand the idea of working this job a solid 5 more years. The available jobs seem to all be 'on call' bull shit where I have to run to work 3 times a night. Even if it makes me the sweet yearly gross  of 47k-52k (for part time work) I've been doing it 6 years, I'm bored and stressed out by who I work WITH.

Option 2: work at Job A just literally long enough to accrue a cold hard 24k in cash, I think 2-3 years (first year is digging out of all debt that isn't deferred school loans). Quit. Live off savings while going to school and benefiting from husband paying bulk of bills while doing Master's program. Graduate with up to 80k in debt. Have to work 5 years.
Drawback: biggest fluctuations of debt and didn't get to work on that passive income much. Won't be able to handle any emergenciesthat may crop up as smoothly as well.
Total time: 10 years max

First depends on me developing the ERE lifestyle. Need time to adjust and chop off parts like selling houses I don't need, moving to a place where biking is commonplace, practice my frugality to a fine point. Second is pretty standard and average. Distracted improvements in spending, but probably not enough to avoid school loans.

A blend of the two I guess could be putting the cash in index funds anyways but then out and out selling them back to cover what's needed in option two. But I'm leery of depending on money to be exactly as much as I put in in just a short 2-3 years. I'm not totally educated on funds yet, but you usually want to go with a 10 year minimum to make sure you don't sell on a bad day/week/month/quarter.

Essentially, I have the money only once in that span of time (after debt pay off) and need to make a choice on which direction to put it. My bank account(2% Whoo~) or index funds.
Added: .have discussed Job B with someone working Job B, and then I did a half shadow day and had a blast. Euphoric, exciting. Plan to do another day or two of shadowing. It's actually a heavily related field. Similar to an LPN becoming a APRN, I'd go from xray/ultrasound to Registered Radiologist Assistant at 100k/year or more.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 10:36:57 AM by Mesmoiselle »

pzxc

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2014, 07:14:03 PM »
There are nearly an infinite number of options, don't limit yourself.

It's $48k for part-time work, you've been doing it 6 years. You're obviously reliable they like you etc - so why is it part-time? Can you switch to fulltime and get paid even more than 48k? If not, you should at the very LEAST be able to get a regular schedule, so that then you have free hours to earn some extra money on the side or maybe take a second, also part-time job? 2 part-times = 1 fulltime

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2014, 07:22:32 PM »
There are nearly an infinite number of options, don't limit yourself.

It's $48k for part-time work, you've been doing it 6 years. You're obviously reliable they like you etc - so why is it part-time? Can you switch to fulltime and get paid even more than 48k? If not, you should at the very LEAST be able to get a regular schedule, so that then you have free hours to earn some extra money on the side or maybe take a second, also part-time job? 2 part-times = 1 fulltime

The magic of PRN is that the full-time people earn the same amount for more work, they just get benefits I don't. Like access to an HSA, PTO/sicktime/vacation Accrual and respect from supervisors. So unless I value the benefits over free time, (I don't) I'd be working twice as much for a similar amount of money. My part time job is school and churning credit cards, both picked up in September this year. The reason they like me is because I take the worst time hours and haven't quit for the cushy twice as much work nice time hours. And it's not in the budget- they save too much from not giving me benefits and the job outlook is so poor for new graduates they have no incentive.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2014, 07:27:42 PM »
So the income is currently inflexible but I am hacking at expenses pretty hardcore. From 30k a year to 22k a year with goal of 18k a year in expenses, maybe less.

pzxc

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2014, 07:35:17 PM »
The income is inflexible at that job perhaps, but if you're working the bad shift there you could get some other part-time work during the good shift?

If not a second job, what about collecting and cashing in recyclables, or making and selling crafts, having a big yard sale to raise some funds, selling friends/neighbors stuff on ebay for a commission...

Pretend you're one of the people on here (LIKE ME) that is heavily into credit card debt (13k thank you very much) -- your hair is on fire, killer bees are stinging you, the cheetah is chasing you as dave ramsey puts it, what are you gonna do about it.

Do those things, and then you won't have to work another five years OR take on a bunch of student loans. You'll be able to have your cake and eat it too.

deborah

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2014, 07:51:24 PM »
Let's do a bit of risk assessment. What happens if...
  • You finish the course, have the student loans to pay out and you don't like Job B - in fact it turns out to be worse than Job A?
  • You do the course, but it's very difficult, and you don't actually finish it?
Are your FI plans going to be completely ruined if either of these happen? There are various ways to mitigate these risks, especially as you are part time. You could see if you can do a coursea subject in the area you plan to study, or read some of the textbooks. This may give you a feel for how difficult the course will be, and how well it fits you. You could also see if there is a way to experience the job - young people do work experience all the time, perhaps you can ask if you could.

I have known several people in the past who did what you are thinking of doing and changed jobs successfully. I have also known people who were trying desperately to get out of a job, and who either failed to get the qualification they wanted, or who found the new job was just as bad as the old one - but in different ways.

snshijuptr

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2014, 08:03:28 PM »
Why don't you pursue an Online bachelors? It looks like you have a good amount of downtime as you work a part time job. I understand that on call might mean you can't enroll in a regular course, but you could get at least your general education courses out of the way before transferring. Most states have a great community college to state college pipeline. Even better, more schools are looking at online degrees or hybrid programs. You can then go full time for your Masters (or work Job B or even C in the meantime).

Also it doesn't totally feel like you have a strong grasp of what Job B requires. Find someone with Job B and ask to shadow them for a day. You don't have to be a kid to do the informational interview thing.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2014, 08:29:23 PM »


Also it doesn't totally feel like you have a strong grasp of what Job B requires. Find someone with Job B and ask to shadow them for a day. You don't have to be a kid to do the informational interview thing.
have discussed Job B with someone working Job B, and then I did a half shadow day and had a blast. Euphoric, exciting. Plan to do another day or two of shadowing. It's actually a heavily related field. Similar to an LPN becoming a APRN, I'd go from xray/ultrasound to Registered Radiologist Assistant at 100k/year or more. I love procedures, it's nothing but with a little downtime in between reading images. Appears to be a ton of autonomy. He's the one that gave me the 80k debt number and approved of my plan to get cash savings to live on while doing the master's program as it is "intense". Like concentrated medical school.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 08:31:17 PM by Mesmoiselle »

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2014, 08:46:08 PM »
The income is inflexible at that job perhaps, but if you're working the bad shift there you could get some other part-time work during the good shift?

If not a second job, what about collecting and cashing in recyclables, or making and selling crafts, having a big yard sale to raise some funds, selling friends/neighbors stuff on ebay for a commission...

Pretend you're one of the people on here (LIKE ME) that is heavily into credit card debt (13k thank you very much) -- your hair is on fire, killer bees are stinging you, the cheetah is chasing you as dave ramsey puts it, what are you gonna do about it.

Do those things, and then you won't have to work another five years OR take on a bunch of student loans. You'll be able to have your cake and eat it too.

I have three roommates to pay my mortgage. I'm churning with cash back rewards cards to capture some benefits from necessary spending for food ($100/person per month). I'm getting a bike this weekend. I'm getting prepared to have a massive craigslist/ebay sale, making a list after finals next week. I've turned off all services, including Netflix. I'm teaching myself to do everything rather than rely on professionals but my sewing skills aren't high quality enough to market yet.

I actually want to excel in classes because the GPA matters towards getting into the program in the first place. Being "available" 24/7 is the difference between 30k and the 51.5k gross I earned this year. I pick my classes to fit the evenings I'm least likely to be asked to work. To get another job is to not bother with this one.

And although my initial goal is duck you money, I don't actually want to live a travel free lifestyle like Jacob ERE. His style of living is what I would do for fuck you money in the interim of working on getting 28k/year ER IncomeSo, no matter what I do, I have to work five years. Even Jacob says you need 5 years to get his 7k/year expenses covered by passive income.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 08:49:05 PM by Mesmoiselle »

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2014, 09:05:38 PM »
Let's do a bit of risk assessment. What happens if...
  • You finish the course, have the student loans to pay out and you don't like Job B - in fact it turns out to be worse than Job A?
  • You do the course, but it's very difficult, and you don't actually finish it?
Are your FI plans going to be completely ruined if either of these happen? There are various ways to mitigate these risks, especially as you are part time. You could see if you can do a coursea subject in the area you plan to study, or read some of the textbooks. This may give you a feel for how difficult the course will be, and how well it fits you. You could also see if there is a way to experience the job - young people do work experience all the time, perhaps you can ask if you could.

I have known several people in the past who did what you are thinking of doing and changed jobs successfully. I have also known people who were trying desperately to get out of a job, and who either failed to get the qualification they wanted, or who found the new job was just as bad as the old one - but in different ways.

If it ended up being worse than Job A, I would still pay off my student loans in less than two years with Job B. I am a practiced wage slave, although I'd be pretty bitter about all that work being wasted.

I will ask my R.A. coworker if he can share some of the course material he suffered through :) I've been assured of the intensity of the program. High drop out rate, but if you pass you're golden. Hence why I won't want to have to work during the program. Bill stress can't be a factor.

Not actually finishing the program...well, here's a side tidbit. If I can't make a 3.8 overall through my bachelor's, that's a sign that I'm not focused or smart enough for the program and I won't even apply. If I do manage the 3.8, then I'm fairly confident I'll get through it. There's confidence for you. Similar to my brother in law. If he didn't make a specific score on his MCAT/LSAT (forget which) he wouldn't bother going to law school because the outcome would be a waste. Low score, crappy school, poor job outlook wasn't an option in his mind. I'm the same way about the program I'm after. It's either the hardcore master's program or not at all.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2014, 09:09:24 PM »
At this moment, I am leaning towards the slow ERE while taking part time courses to get bachelor's. Ugh. But if my grades aren't great, I'll at least have made headway towards FI right before I abandon my R.A. plans :( that job is so cool, wah, so far away.

Allie

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2014, 10:20:07 PM »
My two cents. 

Back in school I knew a couple people who went the radiologist route.  I have no idea what happened to them or how they feel about their decision.  But, from what I gathered it was a very rigorous, very time consuming, and very difficult program to get in to. 

If you plan to bow out of the working world to live a simplistic life ASAP, it seems like a lot of time, effort, money, and energy.  Skip the extra school, keep the roommates, encourage the husband to move up the ladder, take on extra shifts/responsibilities, churn credit cards, maybe go out and break some legs to get some more calls :) , then be done with it! 

If you actually want this career, and I don't think there is anything wrong with putting time and money into learning a skill that is rewarding and enjoyable, then do it and do it right.  Strip away all of the extra bullshit drama (like family stress and late night calls) so you can really focus on this.  If you half do it you may end up with lots of credits and nothing to show for them but a smaller bank account.  After you get your degree, then make good decisions with the money you earn and bask in the joy of being a SWAMI. 

My husband and I both spent money on pricey degrees.  Mine was a labor of misguided love.  His was a well calculated investment in his future career.  He studied super hard, made the right connections, and has a job that pays very well and that he loves and will probably do in some capacity until he can't any longer. 

Not to sound flippant, but I hope that in 10 years, when your husband is doing well and you are a gainfully employed radiologist, you will look back at how stressed you were about this decision and chuckle.  His salary plus your salary (180k) for a Mustachian would pay off you loans in a year or buy a rental unit or support a whole other family or two.  If it were just about the money, I would say no way, but you seem to really enjoy the field, so I say go for it.


TerriM

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2014, 03:18:03 AM »
Then work on my luxurious Stache in Job B and ER within 3 years if I feel like it. Hope to still love it but the minute I don't, I'd pretty very free
Total time: 12 years maximum.

This seems a bit crazy--to go to school for 8 years so that you can work for 4 and then retire seems like a waste.

Also, do you intend to have kids? 

And just to say, you seem to be getting a very good salary for someone without a degree.  Congrats!

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2014, 06:47:07 AM »
Then work on my luxurious Stache in Job B and ER within 3 years if I feel like it. Hope to still love it but the minute I don't, I'd pretty very free
Total time: 12 years maximum.

This seems a bit crazy--to go to school for 8 years so that you can work for 4 and then retire seems like a waste.

Also, do you intend to have kids? 

And just to say, you seem to be getting a very good salary for someone without a degree.  Congrats!
If I focus, I can college done in slightly less than 5 years . If I'm leisurely about it, it's part time for 5, program for 2. So never more than 7 years ever route. I don't intend to ever fully retire while I like a job, so if I liked this job as much as I think I would, I wouldn't be working just to ER, it would be to enjoy my employment with plenty of non working options.

I'm child less with a tubal. After all the school and banking the money,  May foster adopt, may donate large quantities to a good cause and call it done.

Thanks. I kinda got the timing right and had opportunities most don't get. People now have to have a bachelor's to get my job.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2014, 10:03:45 AM »
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/

I am getting the feeling from some of the replies that maybe that I am simply comparing oranges.

My job is not only not challenging, I've been told by my supervisors not to further educate myself because they don't need it. I'm obviously an intelligent skilled individual as I didn't even go to school and still sat and passed the licensing exam to get the job in the first place. Yet after telling me, explicitly, that they did not need or care if I educated myself regarding a certain exam, they allow the exact situation I wanted to train myself for get dumped in my lap, oh, 6-8 times a year. (and every time is a stressful last minute cluster fuck of awesome, I can tell you.)

I've documented Call Abuse and they have shrugged their shoulders and pointed at how it's other people's responsiblity and they'll "let them know." A coworker retired after I worked there two years, and rather than let me shift into that position, they nixed it entirely and split the hours among THREE people.

Because I only came to MMM recently, I have the usual baggage of school loans, mortgage, and some credit debt. Due my husband's job loss earlier this year , I got my wake up call: That I'd frivolously wasted every opportunity of saving on ricidulous stupid crap. (10k wedding, what the hell was I thinking. I regretted it halfway through the reception.) I am 6 years into a high paying (from my perspective) career and I STILL don't have Fuck you money? I'm aggressively addressing the issue.

But I have felt trapped and varying degrees of desperate for two years of this three year job. I COMPETE for hours that I honestly believe I've earned for loyalty, experience, and over the top flexibility. Just last month I was told by my supervisor that I am "above and beyond" what is needed for a PRN position. And the only nod is that I get "every Monday" instead of having to rotate. It should not be a group first come first serve text message offering hours; WTF I should be asked first.

I've never received a raise and the company actually blanket downgraded a section of pay applied to over 1000 people within the company. It only lasted 9 months, but wanna know how much that cost me? 5k gross. And when I heard about it, I looked around in my town and found out that not only are the other places treating their employees in worse ways (complicated schemes of clock ins that get you to work for less) they were paying all of them $2/hour less for the same position. Even after the reverse raise, I was still working at the best place in town? crazy!

My co-workers are religious. One thinks the social security number might be the mark of the devil, that the government is watching her through her IPAD "hold please" rainbow circle, that the Methodist church is evil for donating to planned Parenthood, and that I am going to Hell no matter how good a person I am.  And as an atheist, I am definitely not bringing up religion in the work place! I lost it the other day and after I fled the office, I went to my supervisor and laid it out before this crazy woman got to him first. (Because she has a history of complaining about me to him that doesn't reflect reality.)

I now worry that my little outburst about how "Religion shouldn't be talked about at work and oh my gosh, do you hear how ignorant you are?"  will result in a decrease in hours. Extra hours are offered on a whim, and if up to this specifc person, will now just be given to that person's favorite (or not me!)

Icing on the shit cake; an HR person asked me why I was looking at my employer offered health insurance AT ALL since I was "  "just PRN." Like I shouldn't even know what benefits I'm not getting offered because I'm such a lowly peon.

I am so anxious about income that I cry. Often. I keep an eye on the job boards In my area and nothing shows up but more PRN, a couple of things I can't get licenced in because I don't have the experience. And OBGYN; which, I'd have to get the licence for it and I hate that section of my job now. I don't want to do it full time. On top of all that, my entire right arm is a repetitive stress injury from pushing into fat people and bad ergonomics noticed too late. Working full time US would be pain Pills daily, less free time to enjoy myself, less time to study.

Obviously this location doesn't work for me, but we bought a house and My husband was in a free P.h.D program until recently. But I have been and am varying degrees of miserable and anxious for the last two years.

So yeah. I don't want to keep that emotional roller coaster. I want FU money in the bank so I can demand better treatment; because right now, I'm afraid they'd let me walk if I made the threat! And if I don't get it, walk out in all it's " own myself" glory.

So I have to work 9-12 years SOMEWHERE as SOMETHING to get my ER. And I'd rather not do it being by an Ultrasound technician and definitely not at this job in this town!

As an after thought, I never want to own a house again because it is now a trap I have to be rid of before I can fly off to a better job anywhere else. I was a relunctant buyer in the first place. ugh. Another Stamp of "stupid financial decision" for me.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 10:49:41 AM by Mesmoiselle »

TerriM

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2014, 03:06:27 PM »
I think it might be helpful to separate out the things you want.  You may very well have arrived at the right solution to achieve all of your goals, but I think it'd be helpful to look at each facet separately:

1.  You want to get out of the city you're in and move somewhere where you'll be more comfortable.  Where else could you move where your husband is employable where you could be happy?

2.  Do you want to get a Bachelor's degree for reasons other than financial?  I mean, if you won the lottery tomorrow, would you just go back to school for 4-7 years because you love school? Or because you really want that degree so people will pay you respect?  I understand that being married to a PHD, knowing you have it in you to do the same and not having it can feel bad, so the question is whether a Bachelors/Masters/PHD/whatever degree is a high-priority life goal for you or if you just don't care about the degree but see it as part of the fastest path towards ER?

3.  Do you want to do Radiology because it seems like it's really fun, or because all of your experience as an US/RPNmake it the most practical high paying job to get as fast as possible?  If you had to go back to school for 4-7 years anyways, are there other things you'd really enjoy?  Like starting a business, or being a lawyer, or being a physical therapist or being a Chemist or....?  Sky's the limit.

4.  You sound like you hate doing Ultrasounds regardless of your coworkers and location--that the job itself is bothering you for health reasons and you're tired of being around pregnant women.  Is there anything else that, if you worked for a better company with better coworkers, that you could do with minimal training and enjoy?  (Ie, what other jobs could you enjoy without going back to school for a long time?)

5.  How does your husband feel about these things, especially #1?  Where is he likely to be most employable and are these places you could be happy?  Does he want to move, or is he attached to your current area?

Allie

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2014, 03:19:06 PM »
You obviously hate your current working environment and job.  Employers generally pay what is necessary to keep positions filled and the machine running efficiently.  If your employer is paying more than the local norm it is probably because they have to to keep the positions filled.  If your employer is paying you the same amount for part time work as the full time employees it is because they have to or no one would take the crappy hours and bullshit.  You do have a choice in this.  There are lots of ways to reach your goal of FU money.  Some will take longer but not involve the physical and emotional problems of your current position.

Have you looked into scholarship programs.  I seem to vaguely recall something about your being Native American?  maybe?  If so, take a moment to look into programs to support Native American students.  I know there are plenty of programs for Native Alaskans to help support them in education, especially in the areas of science, math, and health care.  With some good writing skills and a bit of time, you may be able to cobble together a free ride to your dream job.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2014, 10:16:15 AM »

My main goal is Fuck you money. 
^This is the only thing that matters at this point because if you don't have the FU money you want/need, then none of the other things you want to do 5 or 10 or 15 years down the road will be able to happen.  Want to quit the job and go back to school? Want to quit the job and for a different job? Want to quit the job and travel the world? Want to quit the job and RE? ALL of it depends on getting the FU money first.  So focus on that.

If it was me I would first figure out the bare minimum you need to live on - to put a roof over your head, pay your taxes, insurances, utilities, medical, food, fuel for the car, etc... This is not a budget (which implies the amount you are "willing" to spend rather than the bare bones amount you "must" spend), Come up with a number and use this as a baseline for your spending. Try to keep within that baseline as much as possible (ERE-style) and look for ways to make it even lower by cutting out or reducing those expenses further. Then save everything else because pretty much everything will be discretionary income.  After you get that stuff in place start looking for other ways to increase your income and add that to your FU stash. By doing both you might be surprised at how much you can save and you may be able to halve the time it takes to reach that FU money. Also make a list of all the awesomely fun and interesting things you can do for free so that you don't feel deprived. That list can be as long as your imagination and you may find that you actually enjoy those activities more so then the spendier ones.

Bare Minimum bills total:$1614.3 (includes mortgage)
Very aggressive Debt pay:$1219.43 (does not include mortgage)
$2833.73 2015 projected Total + double housing? (If husband moves, we'll have two housing bills temp.)
$2308 2016 Projected Total (if double house resolves and same rent as prev mortgage)
$2000 2017 projected Total
$1520 2018 Projected Total
That's still 9k each. To get it down to ERE, I'd have to go to liability only car insurance and kill my dogs. They are old age dogs, however, so they may do that themselves ;(

Free activities
  • Sew with all the Goodwill fabric I've collected
  • Practice basketball
  • Reading Library books (reading in general)
  • Light gardening
  • play with dog
  • Group walks in the park
  • Board games/DnD already purchased
  • Using Internet/free amazon prime/library to watch Youtube/Star Trek
  • Sex
  • Catch up with Chores to enjoy clean home

TerriM

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2014, 10:35:46 AM »

Free activities
  • Sex

Good to know you're getting this for free.  I was worried you were paying for it.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2014, 10:45:06 AM »
I think it might be helpful to separate out the things you want.  You may very well have arrived at the right solution to achieve all of your goals, but I think it'd be helpful to look at each facet separately:

1.  You want to get out of the city you're in and move somewhere where you'll be more comfortable.  Where else could you move where your husband is employable where you could be happy?

I can get a job of some kind at any place that has a hospital. My husband is more tricky regarding his employment, but fortunately, it all involves large cities. So I would get away from all the conservative religious folk (or there would be enough other folk to water them down.)

2.  Do you want to get a Bachelor's degree for reasons other than financial?  I mean, if you won the lottery tomorrow, would you just go back to school for 4-7 years because you love school? Or because you really want that degree so people will pay you respect?  I understand that being married to a PHD, knowing you have it in you to do the same and not having it can feel bad, so the question is whether a Bachelors/Masters/PHD/whatever degree is a high-priority life goal for you or if you just don't care about the degree but see it as part of the fastest path towards ER?

If I won the lottery tomorrow and was immediately FI, that would be hard. I actually hate college coursework. I thrived in Trade School because EVERYTHING was relevant. I didn't have to take a class in history to take a friggin Xray.... I would probably still go to school but maybe for something different. For example, I currently want to Minor in Spanish. I have six hobbies and a major interest in imaging pathology (sadly, I'm most excited when I find something horribly wrong with someone at work.) Hobbies: writing, hypnosis, language, sewing, nutrition, and DIY goals (Like all the skills MMM has so I can make good money on rentals and never have to rely on the plumber to be honest.) Writing is a gamble, something I'd do if I were already FI.  Do I want to be a psychologist? no. Sewing requires so many man hours, I would have to do weddings to come out ahead on expenses and hourly wage (no.) Regarding nutrition, I've thought about becoming a Registered Dietitian to those in poverty, so I'd want to work that for free. Do I want to be a carpenter as a job? no. The only thing I've wanted to do so far as a "job" is R.R.A. or R.D or even ESL in another country so I can travel yet stay long enough to actually appreciate the culture rather than skim as a tourist. But ESL usually requires you to be Single (definitely not that anymore.) ESL could still be an option if we were already ER and husband didn't HAVE to work.

So yeah. With all the above options to choose from, in a reality where I didn't win the lottery, and getting to ER as fast as possible while doing a job I like was my main goal, I'd go to school for RRA.

3.  Do you want to do Radiology because it seems like it's really fun, or because all of your experience as an US/RPNmake it the most practical high paying job to get as fast as possible?  If you had to go back to school for 4-7 years anyways, are there other things you'd really enjoy?  Like starting a business, or being a lawyer, or being a physical therapist or being a Chemist or....?  Sky's the limit.

Before my shadow day, I was wondering the same thing. If I had to go back to school anyway, why stay inside the same area? But my shadow half day WAS really fun. But when I was trying to figure out what my career change would be, I excluded a lot that wasn't already in my realm of knowledge. Unless I was really passionate about something, I didn't see a point in starting completely from scratch. On a side note, I did want to be a Massage Therapist when I was younger. But it was a master's degree to get around $15/hour. I was making the same or more being a traveling nurse aide, a thing you take a month long class on and move on with life. Psh.

4.  You sound like you hate doing Ultrasounds regardless of your coworkers and location--that the job itself is bothering you for health reasons and you're tired of being around pregnant women.  Is there anything else that, if you worked for a better company with better coworkers, that you could do with minimal training and enjoy?  (Ie, what other jobs could you enjoy without going back to school for a long time?)

I don't actually hate ultrasound. It doesn't like my arm. I can think of no jobs that make similar amounts of money with minimum training I would enjoy. I've seriously considered going back to being an Xray technician with no ultrasound to avoid constant irritation of my RSI. Less pay per hour, twice as much competition for the jobs.

5.  How does your husband feel about these things, especially #1?  Where is he likely to be most employable and are these places you could be happy?  Does he want to move, or is he attached to your current area?

This is his hometown with all his family, so he's very attached. But he didn't get a Master's in Math so he could work at UPS as hard labor. I also only signed up for the crap job because I thought it would be temporary while he worked on his P.h.D. He dropped out. My patience for the job is gone. It's time to abandon ship.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 10:59:39 AM by Mesmoiselle »

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2014, 10:46:48 AM »

Free activities
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Good to know you're getting this for free.  I was worried you were paying for it.

Haha. Gals never have to pay.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2014, 10:54:13 AM »
I have been concerned, intermittently, that devoting so much time to a job where I can only use the skills with million dollar machines in a hospital (or equivalent) isn't limiting myself pretty hard core.

I've never wanted to work in Management, but if you can manage a team or office, you could potentially "manage" anything. Like an apartment building/rentals houses/franchises you may come to own. Again, I would hate my boss's job and I would hate HR, but it is an example of how a certain education can be applicable to multiple locations. Even a doctor can start his own practice outside of a hospital and pick work as he goes. (I don't want to be a Doctor either.) As an RRA, I can only be at a hospital for my duties.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this concern?

Rezdent

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2014, 11:35:25 AM »
I have been concerned, intermittently, that devoting so much time to a job where I can only use the skills with million dollar machines in a hospital (or equivalent) isn't limiting myself pretty hard core.

I've never wanted to work in Management, but if you can manage a team or office, you could potentially "manage" anything. Like an apartment building/rentals houses/franchises you may come to own. Again, I would hate my boss's job and I would hate HR, but it is an example of how a certain education can be applicable to multiple locations. Even a doctor can start his own practice outside of a hospital and pick work as he goes. (I don't want to be a Doctor either.) As an RRA, I can only be at a hospital for my duties.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this concern?
I've had this concern of being pigeonholed into a spot.  Luckily I've managed to maneuver into positions slightly related and get more experience in different ways.

Consider that your field requires several components:
Ability to work with patients (customer service)
Ability to work with expensive machines (technical expertise)
Ability to work with other health care staff/teams (teamwork, collaborative skills)
And of course, prioritizing, reliability, professionalism. ..
Look at how many positions where these skills are valuable.  Many managers will hire someone with proven ability in these broader categories because if an applicant has these, teaching nuts and bolts is easy.
Additionally, try to take on more responsibility with projects.  Unit scheduler or educator can be used in many fields.

TerriM

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2014, 05:58:58 PM »
Sewing requires so many man hours, I would have to do weddings to come out ahead on expenses and hourly wage (no.)

If you like fashion design, you could source out the sewing to others (locally or overseas).

Regarding nutrition, I've thought about becoming a Registered Dietitian to those in poverty, so I'd want to work that for free.

Actually, in large cities, this could be a government job as many lower income people have higher BMIs.   Or you could do it for a hospital in a low-income area.   The government job wouldn't necessarily be high-paying compared to hospitals, but if this is a passion for you, I do think you could do it as a career. 

...even ESL in another country so I can travel yet stay long enough to actually appreciate the culture rather than skim as a tourist.

But ESL usually requires you to be Single (definitely not that anymore.) ESL could still be an option if we were already ER and husband didn't HAVE to work.

Not sure why you'd need to be single.  I had a married friend who did all sorts of ESL jobs in the Phillipines ranging from helping call-center workers understand US culture to teaching ESL for people coming from other countries (Filipinos in large cities already spoke English, but there were people working there from other countries whose families wanted to learn to speak English).

I don't actually hate ultrasound. It doesn't like my arm. I can think of no jobs that make similar amounts of money with minimum training I would enjoy. I've seriously considered going back to being an Xray technician with no ultrasound to avoid constant irritation of my RSI. Less pay per hour, twice as much competition for the jobs.

Fair enough--I sympathize with the RSI issue.  Had to limit my typing for a while because I was experiencing both RSI and CTS when I was only 21.   Would the pay cut be worth the health benefits? 

This is his hometown with all his family, so he's very attached. But he didn't get a Master's in Math so he could work at UPS as hard labor. I also only signed up for the crap job because I thought it would be temporary while he worked on his P.h.D. He dropped out. My patience for the job is gone. It's time to abandon ship.

Ouch.  I'm sorry.  I didn't realize he'd dropped out.   However, he certainly has a variety of options varying from tutoring/teacher to other desk-jobs.  It sounds like you both need to have a talk about where you could go and be happy, but at least you have a lot of options. Perhaps you could start by looking at places that are within driving distance of your current location to places with flights less than 2 hours.  You could focus on having the opportunity to visit once a month so that he can see his family.  If he did teaching or tutoring, he could come for an extended time during the summer.

TerriM

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2014, 06:02:19 PM »
I have been concerned, intermittently, that devoting so much time to a job where I can only use the skills with million dollar machines in a hospital (or equivalent) isn't limiting myself pretty hard core.

Since you sound like you would be happiest in a large city anyways, this doesn't seem like a bad thing.   There will always be a demand for healthcare.

Goldielocks

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2014, 06:29:46 PM »
Using your home for income from room mates is a great advantage that you have.  Think of your home as your second income / business.

Re: Religious nutcases -- I would think you could arrange with your co-workers / employer, to take all the Saturday night call in, and / or sunday shifts, and up your hours?
Usually sundays are hard to get people for, and management is forced to rotate between staff.   Anyway, bring it up, or have a "ladies" agreement that you will respond to all the saturday / sunday posts, but not the "Tuesday" ones...

You may actually like dayshift, for more hours and better co-workers and less stress, but same pay.  OR, look for other healthcare related work you can do - customer service desk / reception, other?

TerriM

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2014, 06:43:50 PM »
Using your home for income from room mates is a great advantage that you have.  Think of your home as your second income / business.

Re: Religious nutcases -- I would think you could arrange with your co-workers / employer, to take all the Saturday night call in, and / or sunday shifts, and up your hours?
Usually sundays are hard to get people for, and management is forced to rotate between staff.   Anyway, bring it up, or have a "ladies" agreement that you will respond to all the saturday / sunday posts, but not the "Tuesday" ones...

Best way to avoid religious people is to work Sunday morning. They'll appreciate being able to take the day off to go to Church too.  :)  It's a win-win situation.

TerriM

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2014, 08:05:19 PM »
BTW, on the dietary counseling thing, I had a friend who did that too, though she was a pediatrician.  She was employed by the county and served a lower income Hispanic population, some clients of whom only spoke Spanish.  I don't know whether she had an RD on staff, but she had a couple of nurses and other staff that worked with her.   She really liked what she did, and didn't seem to mind the lower pay in exchange for working with people cared deeply about.

KBecks2

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2014, 06:19:46 AM »
You sound miserable and completely stressed out, and that is not good.  Breathe.  Really, breathe.

Here are some ideas and you get what you pay for.


Can you practice and learn to do ultrasound left handed / left armed?  That way you can switch off and get some rest for your right.
Can you do strengthening exercises for your arms and shoulders, core and legs to be stronger and have greater stamina?

It sounds good that your work is part time! 

How can you have more fun at your job right now?   What parts of your job do you like best and how can you enjoy those more.  Accentuate the positive, minimize the negative.  How can you be a more fun and happier person at your job right now?  I'm serious.

Take care of yourself.  Hugs.


KBecks2

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2014, 06:24:51 AM »
RE: sewing, can you do alterations?  $$$.

KBecks2

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2014, 06:52:39 AM »
Here's some of the bright side, you have great employment stability, you make $48k part time! (yahoo!) and you can get extra hours or shifts?

So what that it comes through a text message.  You know how they play their game, play it the best you can for yourself. 

Get along with people and be the good sport.  If you act like you love your job, and make it as pleasant as possible for yourself.  then more good things will come your way.   If you say you don't want the benefits, then don't cry over not having the benefits.  (you're trying to say it two ways, what do you really feel?)

Stay the f away from workplace drama and just do a good job, reliably, every time, and be happy to help.  That gets noticed.  You will still have to go through their way of working, but you are smart, you can make it work.

No thoughts on going back to school.  Be careful though of overloading your plate with so many changes all at once.  You are going extreme.  The school is like a 2nd job.  Do you really need it?  If you want to go into real estate, why not study that?  Another side gig might be something like giving insurance health tests -- the hours are daytime. (although that may need a nursing degree too.)

Also, healthcare is changing and doctors jobs may be getting worse. I am not sure but be aware that pay and benefits may start to come down. Also you have big insurance expenses as a doc.  It is not all fun, so be sure to ask about the sh*tty parts of that job too.) 

KBecks2

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2014, 06:55:00 AM »
Lastly, he is religious, but Dave Ramsey kicks @ss.

TerriM

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Re: ERE vs MMM for my life.
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2014, 08:19:13 AM »
RE: sewing, can you do alterations?  $$$.

Sewing has a lot of possibilities in places you might not expect.  You can sew on badges for girl scouts/boy scouts or do the sewing for outdoor chair mesh replacements.  I've been to various places that had business cards for  someone to do these.  In fact, when I've told people I can do these myself, no thank you on the referral, I was told "That's great!  Sewing is a lost art."  (Who knew?)
 
Also, if you got a heavy duty sewing machine, you could do leather working.   I bought a pair of handmade (not in China) leather sandals for my daughter.  They were so simple, and so cute, and now I'm wondering if I could make some more now that she's grown out of them.  I think it would require both a heavy duty sewing machine and a small scroll saw to cut around the outside of the soles, but I bet you could make some awesome stuff and sell it at gift shops.  These would be worth even more if you moved to a larger city.  (In fact, if you move somewhere with a Techshop, you could have access to these machines and more for a monthly fee.)