Author Topic: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter  (Read 5347 times)

jeromedawg

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ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« on: November 08, 2017, 10:31:59 PM »
Hey all,

Wanted to get some feedback on recourse in the case that a doctor misdiagnosed (?) my daughter after she fell off our bed earlier today. After the fall (20" up), she was crying for a long time (at least an hour and slightly more) and so we decided to take her to the nearby children's hospital. We went in and she was finally seen several hours later, but the doctor only checked her head out and not her full body (for potential broken bones, fractures, etc).

Afterwards, our daughter was still crying in pain and just in the past hour we think we've isolated further that the pain seems to be around her shoulder area - her shoulders do not seem symmetrical. When she's crawling or trying to push herself up she cries out in pain so we think there's something else going on like a sprain or possibly fracture or dislocation. She's definitely not able to crawl around like she usually does, and she's extremely mobile. Now she doesn't seem to want to crawl around anywhere. We called the on-call pediatrician for our primary care physician's office and they of course couldn't determine anything but suggested we swing by tomorrow to have them check her out again.

My wife said the ER doctor was sort of rushing her out and didn't really thoroughly check our daughter, even after my wife went back to ask her to double check the side she fell on. I guess it also didn't help that our daughter wasn't screaming out in excruciating pain the whole time (to indicate that she was *really* in pain) but you'd think the doctor would have been a little more thorough.

We still need to get a second opinion but if it turns out that the original doctor was wrong, what suggestions do you guys have on dealing with the hospital and doctor? I'm sure we're not the only case of things like this happening - do they usually refund or waive the charges if there was misdiagnosis or in this case a "missed" diagnosis?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 10:34:17 PM by jeromedawg »

Ynari

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 10:57:51 PM »
Dang, I don't know. My SO has had a lot of dislocations (and the lesser version, subluxations) but he's an adult and can verbalize what's going on. Usually the pain goes away immediately after it goes back in, but he treats the shoulder delicately afterwards. From a brief search (I'm not a doctor or anything close to one), it looks like kids also could have cartilage issues - "Growth plate fracture" was the thing that came up.

Definitely go to the pediatrician ASAP, and go to the ER again if she has any visible bruising or swelling, but right now, you're in that weird limbo of not really having a good option. :/ I don't think ER's ever give refunds, not unless you count malpractice lawsuits...

jeromedawg

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2017, 11:01:31 PM »
Dang, I don't know. My SO has had a lot of dislocations (and the lesser version, subluxations) but he's an adult and can verbalize what's going on. Usually the pain goes away immediately after it goes back in, but he treats the shoulder delicately afterwards. From a brief search (I'm not a doctor or anything close to one), it looks like kids also could have cartilage issues - "Growth plate fracture" was the thing that came up.

Definitely go to the pediatrician ASAP, and go to the ER again if she has any visible bruising or swelling, but right now, you're in that weird limbo of not really having a good option. :/ I don't think ER's ever give refunds, not unless you count malpractice lawsuits...

Yea, the ER not refunding makes sense. But in our case the ER and the doctor bill separately. The ER bill was $100 but we don't know what the doctor's bill might be. Either way, my wife submitted a complaint so we'll see. The on-call pediatrician said we could wait until tomorrow morning but if she's in a lot of pain just take her to the ER. I gave her some tylenol and she seems better in the meantime so that might be enough to hold her over. No bruising but it seems like there might be some amount of swelling in her left shoulder.

Radagast

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2017, 11:20:38 PM »
I dislocated my shoulder very recently so I feel this. Don't expect a refund. Do try for an MRI or xray as soon as possible just to answer any questions that otherwise can't be answered with any certainty. I don't know the procedure for infants but skipping straight to MRI seems like the fastest way to eliminate lingering concerns. Either all doctors or just modern ones seem unable to diagnose anything without an MRI. If she feels like I did timeliness will be appreciated.

Primm

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 12:35:57 AM »
I dislocated my shoulder very recently so I feel this. Don't expect a refund. Do try for an MRI or xray as soon as possible just to answer any questions that otherwise can't be answered with any certainty. I don't know the procedure for infants but skipping straight to MRI seems like the fastest way to eliminate lingering concerns. Either all doctors or just modern ones seem unable to diagnose anything without an MRI. If she feels like I did timeliness will be appreciated.

The procedure for infants, who will sooner fly to the moon than lie still in a dark tunnel with headphones on while you take pictures of their insides, is to give them a general anaesthetic, with all its associated costs and risks.

slappy

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2017, 05:51:55 AM »
I would take her back to the ER. Is there another hospital you can take her to? In my area, there are two hospitals, and one is notoriously better for children. They have a pediatric unit in the hospital, so when the kids come into the ER, they can actually have a pediactric doc look at them, and transfer them to the ped unit if necessary. If your daughter is in pain and doesn't seem like herself, bring her in.

FLBiker

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2017, 06:46:55 AM »
I wouldn't worry about a refund or charges being waived (which I think is unlikely) but I'd definitely get a second opinion.  Also, unless you and your wife are both prone to hypochondria, I'd trust your gut.  With nonverbal little ones, I've found that to be the most reliable way to know if something is hospital-worthy or not.  For example, DD had a fever of 104 the other day (she's 2.5, so verbal, but still) but she was still playing, happy, etc.  We gave her Tylenol to take the fever down, and went to the pediatrician the next day (Monday).  He totally agreed with our not going to the ER, because she was acting normal.  He says "read the kid, not the thermometer".  So if your child is acting differently, I'd follow up.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 06:54:44 AM »
Obviously, getting a diagnosis you're more confident about is first priority.

AFTER THAT, check and see if the first hospital has an ombudsman or patient affairs type office and give them a call. Explain your visit, and that you feel your daughter didn't get a thorough exam, especially if you're right and there is a problem with her shoulder.

He says "read the kid, not the thermometer".  So if your child is acting differently, I'd follow up.

^This^

Our son bumped his head at day care a few weeks ago, and was super mellow/tired when we picked him up, which is out of the ordinary for him. Urgent care wanted us to go to the ER, which I knew was overkill, but kids and heads. Luckily we were able to get him in for a same-day peds office appointment. I did a super sloppy concussion assessment myself before then, and the doctor did a real one. Everything was fine, but I was glad we went.

teen persuasion

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2017, 07:04:31 AM »
My college age son recently injured his shoulder in sports, and knew something felt out of place, so immediately thought he'd dislocated his shoulder.  EMTs checked him out, weren't sure but thought he could be correct, took him to the ER.  The doc there eventually diagnosed it as a separated shoulder.  There was a definite lump or bump on the top of his shoulder, not at the joint end, but halfway between there and his neck, if you KWIM.  They had him in a sling to immobilize it, but I noticed he was definitely favoring that side - he hunched to that side instinctively, even though he said it wasn't very painful if he didn't use it.  A baby trying to crawl on that arm would hurt!

We were told to follow up with an orthopedic doctor.  They confirmed the diagnosis, decided it was not high degree injury that might require surgery.  They also noted that he needed to ditch the sling and begin using the arm to regain range of motion - his muscles on that side were shutting down from disuse (2 days).  They gave us a set of minor exercises to work it gently - pushing back against a wall, pushing down on a tabletop from a seated position, etc.

They said it was a common injury when someone lands on the shoulder - DS4 was tackled and the shoulder hit the ground first.

We learned a lot of stuff we never knew about how everything is attached in that part of the body, and how fuzzy even the EMTs and some hospital staff were about diagnosing and treating it.

Hope it might help!

Retire-Canada

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 07:06:20 AM »
We still need to get a second opinion...

I'd just be worrying about this until you actually get things figured out and treated. Worry about the doctor in the ER is a poor use of your focus and attention right now.

BeanCounter

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2017, 07:14:00 AM »
Not a physician, but I would bet she has a fractured collar bone. Probably a green stick fracture. Take her for an X-ray.  Honestly I'd go see your ped or family physician and have them order the xray. It will be cheaper than going back to the ER.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2017, 07:23:53 AM »
We still need to get a second opinion but if it turns out that the original doctor was wrong, what suggestions do you guys have on dealing with the hospital and doctor? I'm sure we're not the only case of things like this happening - do they usually refund or waive the charges if there was misdiagnosis or in this case a "missed" diagnosis?

First worry about getting the second opinion and making sure things are properly diagnosed.

As for the hospital, they're not going to waive charges. I actually had a misdiagnosis on my knee earlier this year and instead used the situation to negotiate my bill down a bit.

Also, your post has a tinge of "I want to sue them," but just telling you, forget about that. Just focus on making sure your child is properly diagnosed.

Dreamer

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2017, 07:30:55 AM »
My 1.5 year old son recently fractured his leg, and we knew there was something seriously wrong because he cried on and off for over an hour, which is very unusual for him.  He was also not able to stand without showing signs of even more pain.   Your daughter's case sounds quite similar, albeit in a different area of the body, but I'd definitely recommend getting it checked out again ASAP.

I can't comment on the billing issue, since I'm in Canada where the cost of an ER visit is automatically covered.

charis

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2017, 07:53:30 AM »
Don't worry about a misdiagnosis at this point.  Get to your pediatrician immediately and probably follow up with a specialist - maybe a pediatric orthopedist.   After that, if you begin to suspect a malpractice issue with respect to the ER doc's initial diagnosis, consult with a medical malpractice attorney.  That's about all you can do, apart from submitting a complaint to the hospital, etc.

The ER is for medical emergenies and it is a stop gap if your doctor's office is closed, it is not a replacement for your doctor or a specialist.  We recently took my son for a fall and head hit as well.  They did a phsyical exam of his head and monitored him for a few hours.  That's it.   We were told to come back if he started vomiting or developed new symptoms and to see the pediatrician on Monday.  The ER charges are huge, though, and I know it's really frustrating to feel like they didn't do enough.


honeybbq

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2017, 09:46:48 AM »
Don't worry about a misdiagnosis at this point.  Get to your pediatrician immediately and probably follow up with a specialist - maybe a pediatric orthopedist.   After that, if you begin to suspect a malpractice issue with respect to the ER doc's initial diagnosis, consult with a medical malpractice attorney.  That's about all you can do, apart from submitting a complaint to the hospital, etc.

The ER is for medical emergenies and it is a stop gap if your doctor's office is closed, it is not a replacement for your doctor or a specialist.  We recently took my son for a fall and head hit as well.  They did a phsyical exam of his head and monitored him for a few hours.  That's it.   We were told to come back if he started vomiting or developed new symptoms and to see the pediatrician on Monday.  The ER charges are huge, though, and I know it's really frustrating to feel like they didn't do enough.

I agree. The doctor was probably making sure there was no life threatening head injury. After that - find a specialist. Unfortunately this is the way our system works.

jeromedawg

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2017, 10:34:57 AM »
Don't worry about a misdiagnosis at this point.  Get to your pediatrician immediately and probably follow up with a specialist - maybe a pediatric orthopedist.   After that, if you begin to suspect a malpractice issue with respect to the ER doc's initial diagnosis, consult with a medical malpractice attorney.  That's about all you can do, apart from submitting a complaint to the hospital, etc.

The ER is for medical emergenies and it is a stop gap if your doctor's office is closed, it is not a replacement for your doctor or a specialist.  We recently took my son for a fall and head hit as well.  They did a phsyical exam of his head and monitored him for a few hours.  That's it.   We were told to come back if he started vomiting or developed new symptoms and to see the pediatrician on Monday.  The ER charges are huge, though, and I know it's really frustrating to feel like they didn't do enough.

I agree. The doctor was probably making sure there was no life threatening head injury. After that - find a specialist. Unfortunately this is the way our system works.

I get the life threatening part being highest priority, but after that has been checked, if the patient/guardian asks for a secondary check (because they still think something is wrong) I would think the doctor would *try* to be a little more thorough about it. *shrug*

Our daughter definitely has some swelling and slight discoloration (light bruising) in her collarbone area as of this morning. She's not really complaining much though so either the pain has subsided or she's just tough.  We are trying to keep her off using it or crawling on it though. My wife is taking her to the primary care physician's office down the street in a couple hours, as that's the soonest they can see her.

Anyway, with the ER we learned our lesson: press harder where you can. Thing is, my wife did ask the doctor to check again but she wasn't specific about what to check... how would she know though? You'd assume most doctors would think to check for that kind of stuff: hm, baby fell off bed - check head for life threatening injuries then check rest of body for potential broken bones/pain/discomfort, etc. Aside from the money, it really feels like going there was nearly a complete waste of time. It's not the closest hospital to us and we were going during LA/OC rush hour too.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 10:42:42 AM by jeromedawg »

lbmustache

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2017, 10:54:30 AM »
Don't worry about a misdiagnosis at this point.  Get to your pediatrician immediately and probably follow up with a specialist - maybe a pediatric orthopedist.   After that, if you begin to suspect a malpractice issue with respect to the ER doc's initial diagnosis, consult with a medical malpractice attorney.  That's about all you can do, apart from submitting a complaint to the hospital, etc.

The ER is for medical emergenies and it is a stop gap if your doctor's office is closed, it is not a replacement for your doctor or a specialist.  We recently took my son for a fall and head hit as well.  They did a phsyical exam of his head and monitored him for a few hours.  That's it.   We were told to come back if he started vomiting or developed new symptoms and to see the pediatrician on Monday.  The ER charges are huge, though, and I know it's really frustrating to feel like they didn't do enough.

I agree. The doctor was probably making sure there was no life threatening head injury. After that - find a specialist. Unfortunately this is the way our system works.

I get the life threatening part being highest priority, but after that has been checked, if the patient/guardian asks for a secondary check (because they still think something is wrong) I would think the doctor would *try* to be a little more thorough about it. *shrug*

Our daughter definitely has some swelling and slight discoloration (light bruising) in her collarbone area as of this morning. She's not really complaining much though so either the pain has subsided or she's just tough.  We are trying to keep her off using it or crawling on it though. My wife is taking her to the primary care physician's office down the street in a couple hours, as that's the soonest they can see her.

Anyway, with the ER we learned our lesson: press harder where you can. Thing is, my wife did ask the doctor to check again but she wasn't specific about what to check... how would she know though? You'd assume most doctors would think to check for that kind of stuff: hm, baby fell off bed - check head for life threatening injuries then check rest of body for potential broken bones/pain/discomfort, etc. Aside from the money, it really feels like going there was nearly a complete waste of time. It's not the closest hospital to us and we were going during LA/OC rush hour too.

It might be that you went to a crappier ER/had a crappier doctor. My experience in the ER has been that unless there is a serious medical problem (aka life threatening) you are going to be at the bottom of the list and they aren't going to devote a whole ton of extra time/resources your way. It's basically: x-ray a kid who fell off a bed, doesn't have a concussion, and maybe a fracture vs x-ray someone who just got stabbed or shot and needs surgery asap.

Urgent care is usually a better choice for something that needs to be seen quickly, but is not a true emergency.

With that said, I hope your daughter is OK and hopefully it is not a major injury.

jeromedawg

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2017, 11:04:29 AM »
Don't worry about a misdiagnosis at this point.  Get to your pediatrician immediately and probably follow up with a specialist - maybe a pediatric orthopedist.   After that, if you begin to suspect a malpractice issue with respect to the ER doc's initial diagnosis, consult with a medical malpractice attorney.  That's about all you can do, apart from submitting a complaint to the hospital, etc.

The ER is for medical emergenies and it is a stop gap if your doctor's office is closed, it is not a replacement for your doctor or a specialist.  We recently took my son for a fall and head hit as well.  They did a phsyical exam of his head and monitored him for a few hours.  That's it.   We were told to come back if he started vomiting or developed new symptoms and to see the pediatrician on Monday.  The ER charges are huge, though, and I know it's really frustrating to feel like they didn't do enough.

I agree. The doctor was probably making sure there was no life threatening head injury. After that - find a specialist. Unfortunately this is the way our system works.

I get the life threatening part being highest priority, but after that has been checked, if the patient/guardian asks for a secondary check (because they still think something is wrong) I would think the doctor would *try* to be a little more thorough about it. *shrug*

Our daughter definitely has some swelling and slight discoloration (light bruising) in her collarbone area as of this morning. She's not really complaining much though so either the pain has subsided or she's just tough.  We are trying to keep her off using it or crawling on it though. My wife is taking her to the primary care physician's office down the street in a couple hours, as that's the soonest they can see her.

Anyway, with the ER we learned our lesson: press harder where you can. Thing is, my wife did ask the doctor to check again but she wasn't specific about what to check... how would she know though? You'd assume most doctors would think to check for that kind of stuff: hm, baby fell off bed - check head for life threatening injuries then check rest of body for potential broken bones/pain/discomfort, etc. Aside from the money, it really feels like going there was nearly a complete waste of time. It's not the closest hospital to us and we were going during LA/OC rush hour too.

It might be that you went to a crappier ER/had a crappier doctor. My experience in the ER has been that unless there is a serious medical problem (aka life threatening) you are going to be at the bottom of the list and they aren't going to devote a whole ton of extra time/resources your way. It's basically: x-ray a kid who fell off a bed, doesn't have a concussion, and maybe a fracture vs x-ray someone who just got stabbed or shot and needs surgery asap.

Urgent care is usually a better choice for something that needs to be seen quickly, but is not a true emergency.

With that said, I hope your daughter is OK and hopefully it is not a major injury.

That makes sense, although we're still surprised because this is a major children's hospital in our area (CHOC - Childrens Hospital of Orange County). In the waiting area, all we saw were kids who were sick and coughing, and it wasn't like this was at midnight with a single doctor around. In the time we were there, no ambulances were rushing in patients with profuse bleeding, etc. But yea, I suppose Urgent Care sounds like it might have been better... not sure why the hotline nurse didn't just recommend that but who knows. Maybe she wanted us to rule out the potential life threatening head injury part. Our daughter wasn't vomiting though which it seems is the pretty common first indicator of serious head injury/trauma.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2017, 11:12:58 AM »
That makes sense, although we're still surprised because this is a major children's hospital in our area (CHOC - Childrens Hospital of Orange County). In the waiting area, all we saw were kids who were sick and coughing, and it wasn't like this was at midnight with a single doctor around. In the time we were there, no ambulances were rushing in patients with profuse bleeding, etc. But yea, I suppose Urgent Care sounds like it might have been better... not sure why the hotline nurse didn't just recommend that but who knows. Maybe she wanted us to rule out the potential life threatening head injury part. Our daughter wasn't vomiting though which it seems is the pretty common first indicator of serious head injury/trauma.

Because urgent care will turf you to the ER because "possible head trauma."

Blame the lawyers.

BeanCounter

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2017, 11:17:54 AM »
Can she raise her arm over her head without crying or resisting?
Really sounds like collar bone. Which is SO common at that age.
Again, not a physician- just a mom of boys.
Alternate Motrin & Tylenol in overlapping intervals for the best pain relief.

Dicey

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2017, 11:23:35 AM »
Is there another hospital you can take her to? In my area, there are two hospitals, and one is notoriously better for children.
I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear that. I think you might mean something like esteemed or well regarded. Pro tip: Do not go to any hospital with a notorious reputation, especially if there is another option. (Hee!)

To OP: Any updates? I hope you are well in your way to a proper diagnosis. I agree that our system is screwed up. In that mountain of fine print you signed in the ER was probably a bulletproof clause that protects them from all manner of things. Probably better to focus on recovery, glean whatever lessons can be learned from the experience and move on with your life.

slappy

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2017, 11:31:03 AM »
Is there another hospital you can take her to? In my area, there are two hospitals, and one is notoriously better for children.
I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear that. I think you might mean something like esteemed or well regarded. Pro tip: Do not go to any hospital with a notorious reputation, especially if there is another option. (Hee!)

To OP: Any updates? I hope you are well in your way to a proper diagnosis. I agree that our system is screwed up. In that mountain of fine print you signed in the ER was probably a bulletproof clause that protects them from all manner of things. Probably better to focus on recovery, glean whatever lessons can be learned from the experience and move on with your life.

Oh man. Yes, that is what I meant.

jeromedawg

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2017, 11:32:03 AM »
That makes sense, although we're still surprised because this is a major children's hospital in our area (CHOC - Childrens Hospital of Orange County). In the waiting area, all we saw were kids who were sick and coughing, and it wasn't like this was at midnight with a single doctor around. In the time we were there, no ambulances were rushing in patients with profuse bleeding, etc. But yea, I suppose Urgent Care sounds like it might have been better... not sure why the hotline nurse didn't just recommend that but who knows. Maybe she wanted us to rule out the potential life threatening head injury part. Our daughter wasn't vomiting though which it seems is the pretty common first indicator of serious head injury/trauma.

Because urgent care will turf you to the ER because "possible head trauma."

Blame the lawyers.

Figures... more passing the buck.

Can she raise her arm over her head without crying or resisting?
Really sounds like collar bone. Which is SO common at that age.
Again, not a physician- just a mom of boys.
Alternate Motrin & Tylenol in overlapping intervals for the best pain relief.

We haven't tried but she seems to be preferring her right arm/hand over her left, which is the side that we have been noticing irritation and causing her irritability.

Is there another hospital you can take her to? In my area, there are two hospitals, and one is notoriously better for children.
I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear that. I think you might mean something like esteemed or well regarded. Pro tip: Do not go to any hospital with a notorious reputation, especially if there is another option. (Hee!)

To OP: Any updates? I hope you are well in your way to a proper diagnosis. I agree that our system is screwed up. In that mountain of fine print you signed in the ER was probably a bulletproof clause that protects them from all manner of things. Probably better to focus on recovery, glean whatever lessons can be learned from the experience and move on with your life.

Lately she seems like she's been OK. She'll be going into see the pediatrician soon. Sometimes I feel like these offices do all they can to make you go in for extraneous visits - couldn't the doctor/nurse have just put an order in for us to get X-rays instead?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 11:33:58 AM by jeromedawg »

I'm a red panda

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2017, 11:34:23 AM »
Is there another hospital you can take her to? In my area, there are two hospitals, and one is notoriously better for children.
I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear that. I think you might mean something like esteemed or well regarded. Pro tip: Do not go to any hospital with a notorious reputation, especially if there is another option. (Hee!)

To OP: Any updates? I hope you are well in your way to a proper diagnosis. I agree that our system is screwed up. In that mountain of fine print you signed in the ER was probably a bulletproof clause that protects them from all manner of things. Probably better to focus on recovery, glean whatever lessons can be learned from the experience and move on with your life.

Oh man. Yes, that is what I meant.

What you said is what you meant. Notorious is often meant to mean a negative, but doesn't have to be used that way.
You qualified it with a positive.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2017, 12:45:13 PM »
Lately she seems like she's been OK. She'll be going into see the pediatrician soon. Sometimes I feel like these offices do all they can to make you go in for extraneous visits - couldn't the doctor/nurse have just put an order in for us to get X-rays instead?

No, they really need to do an exam to determine if the radiation exposure risk is worth the benefit. Now, they probably could've done that just fine over video chat, but ...

charis

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2017, 01:08:59 PM »
Lately she seems like she's been OK. She'll be going into see the pediatrician soon. Sometimes I feel like these offices do all they can to make you go in for extraneous visits - couldn't the doctor/nurse have just put an order in for us to get X-rays instead?

No, they really need to do an exam to determine if the radiation exposure risk is worth the benefit. Now, they probably could've done that just fine over video chat, but ...

Our ER doc basically said this, avoid x-rays in small children unless it's necessary.   Your opinion of whether it's necessary may not be the medically accepted practice.

Dicey

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2017, 01:29:46 PM »
Is there another hospital you can take her to? In my area, there are two hospitals, and one is notoriously better for children.
I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear that. I think you might mean something like esteemed or well regarded. Pro tip: Do not go to any hospital with a notorious reputation, especially if there is another option. (Hee!)

To OP: Any updates? I hope you are well in your way to a proper diagnosis. I agree that our system is screwed up. In that mountain of fine print you signed in the ER was probably a bulletproof clause that protects them from all manner of things. Probably better to focus on recovery, glean whatever lessons can be learned from the experience and move on with your life.

Oh man. Yes, that is what I meant.

What you said is what you meant. Notorious is often meant to mean a negative, but doesn't have to be used that way.
You qualified it with a positive.
Pretty sure there is NO hospital that would appreciate being labeled "notorious". In other contexts, perhaps. See: Notorious BIG.

On to other weird US healthcare processes.
I have a heart condition that is mostly self-managed without drugs. In 2008, I returned home from a Hawaiian vacation and then experienced heart palpitations for nearly a week. Having moved far away from my cardiologist, I made an appointment and walked to my GPS, around the corner from my house. She checked my heart, agreed there was a problem and then directed me to the Emergency Room. What? Can't you just recommend a Cardiologist in the area? Nope, it doesn't work that way. Had to go to ER, have tests run, THEN go to a Cardiologist. Harumph! I was so pissed. I walked to the ER, just one block away. When I arrived and stated my reason, I was jumped to the front of the line. Wha?? Seems cardiovascular stuff gets special priority. Anyway, they ran a bunch of tests, then recommended I see a Cardiologist. Well, duh. At least they recommended a good one. Happily, I haven't needed to see her in five or six years or so. Another benefit of FIRE is so much less stress.

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2017, 02:02:44 PM »
Is there another hospital you can take her to? In my area, there are two hospitals, and one is notoriously better for children.
I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear that. I think you might mean something like esteemed or well regarded. Pro tip: Do not go to any hospital with a notorious reputation, especially if there is another option. (Hee!)

To OP: Any updates? I hope you are well in your way to a proper diagnosis. I agree that our system is screwed up. In that mountain of fine print you signed in the ER was probably a bulletproof clause that protects them from all manner of things. Probably better to focus on recovery, glean whatever lessons can be learned from the experience and move on with your life.

Oh man. Yes, that is what I meant.

What you said is what you meant. Notorious is often meant to mean a negative, but doesn't have to be used that way.
You qualified it with a positive.
Pretty sure there is NO hospital that would appreciate being labeled "notorious". In other contexts, perhaps. See: Notorious BIG.

On to other weird US healthcare processes.
I have a heart condition that is mostly self-managed without drugs. In 2008, I returned home from a Hawaiian vacation and then experienced heart palpitations for nearly a week. Having moved far away from my cardiologist, I made an appointment and walked to my GPS, around the corner from my house. She checked my heart, agreed there was a problem and then directed me to the Emergency Room. What? Can't you just recommend a Cardiologist in the area? Nope, it doesn't work that way. Had to go to ER, have tests run, THEN go to a Cardiologist. Harumph! I was so pissed. I walked to the ER, just one block away. When I arrived and stated my reason, I was jumped to the front of the line. Wha?? Seems cardiovascular stuff gets special priority. Anyway, they ran a bunch of tests, then recommended I see a Cardiologist. Well, duh. At least they recommended a good one. Happily, I haven't needed to see her in five or six years or so. Another benefit of FIRE is so much less stress.

"notoriously better for children"

better is really the key word there.


Merium Webster:
Notorius

:generally known and talked of
iron is a notorious conductor of heat —Lewis Mumford

; especially :widely and unfavorably known a notorious gangster
an area notorious for soot, smog, and dust—Pliotron

Dictionary.com
adjective
1. widely and unfavorably known:
a notorious gambler.
Synonyms: infamous, egregious, outrageous, arrant, flagrant, disreputable.
2. publicly or generally known, as for a particular trait:
a newspaper that is notorious for its sensationalism.
Synonyms: notable, renowned, celebrated, prominent, conspicuous, famous, widely known.


So first definition at Merriam-Webster and second definition at dictionary.com is exactly how that poster used it: something that is well known.  If used alone, most people would go to the negative connotation; but when qualified (with the word "better"), there is nothing in that statement that is bad.  The post said that it is generally known as being better for children. Exactly as the dictionary says the word can be used.



I've been pretty upset with our ER lately, and at an excellent hospital.  I got sent there by a pediatrician when I was having chest pain at a 1-week checkup for my daughter. I told her it was stress and no big deal and didn't have time to go to the ER. Went to the ER, waited half an hour for an EKG and then 4 hours, and finally told them I was leaving. Clearly if something was wrong I'd have been called back by then. I was exhausted, dehydrated and hungry. Me and my 1-week old in an ER (though they gave me a "family waiting room" to keep her away from germs) wasn't helping things.

Then at 6 months a nurse line sent us to the ER for dehydration. We didn't even get called to triage for over an hour, when I again just left (she had a wet diaper at that point, and I called the nurse line and they said that was probably a good sign and to keep pushing fluids).  I can understand not seeing a doctor, as the back of house was likely quite busy- but not a single person was in the waiting room (never seen that)- and my INFANT didn't even get triaged.

jeromedawg

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2017, 02:50:14 PM »
So we saw the pediatrician and she ordered x-rays. As I suspected after we started seeing the swelling (and what a few of you were suggesting) - broken clavicle.

We're waiting to get an appointment with the orthopedic pediatrician now...


EDIT: appt with the orthopedic pediatrician is in less than an hour. Not sure what they're going to suggest we do. The general pediatrician said to try giving her some ibuprofen in the meantime. She hasn't been overly fussy about it though.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 03:09:16 PM by jeromedawg »

Dicey

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2017, 04:17:19 PM »
Glad there's progress. Standing by for next report.

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2017, 04:34:02 PM »
Poor baby. I hope that the pain relief works. Immobilization is going to be tough.

jeromedawg

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2017, 04:49:30 PM »
Orthopedic pediatrician thinks it's not super serious - the fracture is in at least 2 places. He's not concerned and thinks it'll heal pretty fast at this age though and he sees it pretty often. He said she looks pretty happy which is a really good sign. I just feel awful for her but I guess this is just one of those things that will take time.

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2017, 05:39:06 PM »
Glad your daughter's okay. I always thought it was the job of an ER to make sure someone won't die or become seriously worse off before they are able to see a 'non-urgent' care physician; it's not their duty to diagnose things. It seems that the ER doc did make sure your daughter was stable and would be okay until the morning. Do others have different expectations?

ixtap

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2017, 05:45:33 PM »
Glad your daughter's okay. I always thought it was the job of an ER to make sure someone won't die or become seriously worse off before they are able to see a 'non-urgent' care physician; it's not their duty to diagnose things. It seems that the ER doc did make sure your daughter was stable and would be okay until the morning. Do others have different expectations?

I know people who use the ER out of a supposed convenience. And yet, the ER doctors always say "Follow up with your regular doctor ASAP."

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2017, 06:47:38 PM »
The awesome thing about kids is they heal so fast. Hope you all are doing better tonight. At that age there isn't much they can do for a broken collar bone. The ortho will likely watch it to make sure it heals in the right place. Which will mean several expensive follow up appointments. And probably one more set of X-rays. Sucks.
As far as the ER goes, I will only go if I think someone is at risk of dying and needs to be stabilized. There are better, cheaper options for convenience care.

Dicey

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2017, 09:17:22 PM »
Is there another hospital you can take her to? In my area, there are two hospitals, and one is notoriously better for children.
I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear that. I think you might mean something like esteemed or well regarded. Pro tip: Do not go to any hospital with a notorious reputation, especially if there is another option. (Hee!)

To OP: Any updates? I hope you are well in your way to a proper diagnosis. I agree that our system is screwed up. In that mountain of fine print you signed in the ER was probably a bulletproof clause that protects them from all manner of things. Probably better to focus on recovery, glean whatever lessons can be learned from the experience and move on with your life.

Oh man. Yes, that is what I meant.

What you said is what you meant. Notorious is often meant to mean a negative, but doesn't have to be used that way.
You qualified it with a positive.
Pretty sure there is NO hospital that would appreciate being labeled "notorious". In other contexts, perhaps. See: Notorious BIG.

On to other weird US healthcare processes.
I have a heart condition that is mostly self-managed without drugs. In 2008, I returned home from a Hawaiian vacation and then experienced heart palpitations for nearly a week. Having moved far away from my cardiologist, I made an appointment and walked to my GPS, around the corner from my house. She checked my heart, agreed there was a problem and then directed me to the Emergency Room. What? Can't you just recommend a Cardiologist in the area? Nope, it doesn't work that way. Had to go to ER, have tests run, THEN go to a Cardiologist. Harumph! I was so pissed. I walked to the ER, just one block away. When I arrived and stated my reason, I was jumped to the front of the line. Wha?? Seems cardiovascular stuff gets special priority. Anyway, they ran a bunch of tests, then recommended I see a Cardiologist. Well, duh. At least they recommended a good one. Happily, I haven't needed to see her in five or six years or so. Another benefit of FIRE is so much less stress.

"notoriously better for children"

better is really the key word there.


Merium Webster:
Notorius

:generally known and talked of
iron is a notorious conductor of heat —Lewis Mumford

; especially :widely and unfavorably known a notorious gangster
an area notorious for soot, smog, and dust—Pliotron

Dictionary.com
adjective
1. widely and unfavorably known:
a notorious gambler.
Synonyms: infamous, egregious, outrageous, arrant, flagrant, disreputable.
2. publicly or generally known, as for a particular trait:
a newspaper that is notorious for its sensationalism.
Synonyms: notable, renowned, celebrated, prominent, conspicuous, famous, widely known.


So first definition at Merriam-Webster and second definition at dictionary.com is exactly how that poster used it: something that is well known.  If used alone, most people would go to the negative connotation; but when qualified (with the word "better"), there is nothing in that statement that is bad.  The post said that it is generally known as being better for children. Exactly as the dictionary says the word can be used.



I've been pretty upset with our ER lately, and at an excellent hospital.  I got sent there by a pediatrician when I was having chest pain at a 1-week checkup for my daughter. I told her it was stress and no big deal and didn't have time to go to the ER. Went to the ER, waited half an hour for an EKG and then 4 hours, and finally told them I was leaving. Clearly if something was wrong I'd have been called back by then. I was exhausted, dehydrated and hungry. Me and my 1-week old in an ER (though they gave me a "family waiting room" to keep her away from germs) wasn't helping things.

Then at 6 months a nurse line sent us to the ER for dehydration. We didn't even get called to triage for over an hour, when I again just left (she had a wet diaper at that point, and I called the nurse line and they said that was probably a good sign and to keep pushing fluids).  I can understand not seeing a doctor, as the back of house was likely quite busy- but not a single person was in the waiting room (never seen that)- and my INFANT didn't even get triaged.
iowajes, your ER experiences break my heart. That's why I thought it was totally stupid that they took me in first. I mean, I walked there for Pete's sake! Another memory has floated up. As I was approaching the ER, a man pulled up and was helping a woman out of the car. She seemed to be in quite a bit of pain. When I was called in immediately, I asked about the woman who seemed to be in so much distress. The intake nurse's reply stuck with me. "Drama is not trauma." Oh boy. I respect that they have seen so many things that their instincts are surely far better than mine, but I was quite taken aback at the time. I am so, so sorry that you got such a runaround with your new baby.

As to the word thing, can we just both be right and agree to let it go? I hope so.

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2017, 10:02:49 PM »
The awesome thing about kids is they heal so fast. Hope you all are doing better tonight. At that age there isn't much they can do for a broken collar bone. The ortho will likely watch it to make sure it heals in the right place. Which will mean several expensive follow up appointments. And probably one more set of X-rays. Sucks.
As far as the ER goes, I will only go if I think someone is at risk of dying and needs to be stabilized. There are better, cheaper options for convenience care.
My experience was that I called several places, and they all said the ER was the only place in town that would handle a dislocated shoulder. The good news was the ER gave a 60% discount for paying in cash at the desk. And I called in advance to make sure they were having a slow night.

I have lots of sympathy for jeromedawg because I had a hard enough time getting my situation sorted out, even though I'm a highly educated adult who can describe what feels like what. I still went to two xrays at two places, and even now I'm not sure everything came out right. But I sure spent a lot of time and money arriving at that point.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2017, 10:53:15 AM »
Both my nephew's parents are doctors, and when he broke his collarbone (fell off bed) it took them 12 hours to realize it.

BeanCounter

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Re: ER doctor potentially misdiagnosed my daughter
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2017, 03:47:30 PM »
When our son broke his collar bone, falling out of bed in the middle of the night, he actually went back to sleep for the rest of the night! It wasn't until he got up the next morning and we were trying to get him dressed that we realized something was really wrong.