The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: aaronpct on July 26, 2013, 01:17:23 PM
-
Hello MMM community,
How much is a reasonable amount to spend on an engagement ring?
How do people treat their separate debts when tying the knot?
Any ideas on how to get the best deals for rings/diamonds?
Background:
We have both gone out to look at rings, she felt like a princess for a day but when the price tag of 7k came up from the jeweler (after more research I found he was giving us a good deal for what a retailer could provide comparing similar prices that I was seeing in Costco) she said it was too much and would be happier with something much more affordable. I'm sure if I went with a much smaller stone I could cut that price in half and not feel like I was getting sucker punched by the diamond industry and still make her happy.
Finances:
MY SO has a 5k student loan that she is paying off, and I said out loud to her that i'd rather spend that much money to pay off her loan. But she refuses to allow me to do so and wants a ring because that is where her dreams of getting married come into play. Also she doesn't want any one else to take responsibility for her debts.
We both work full time jobs, except she is going back to school at nights so she can change her career. She landed in retail because she didn't have a college degree and was able to work her way up to a Managing Director position which pays pretty good. She is going back to school because she's a Bosnian immigrant who came to this country after the war and because her family received so much help along the way, she really wants to transition into the non-profit world. (She already volunteers a lot of her time. When I say things like why don't you learn something that will make you more money and you can just donate to non-profits or anything along those lines, she is not open to any of those types of suggestions. Don't get me wrong, I admire her for her passion in all of this...not only does she not want help (independence) but she wants to help others. I wish there were more like this in the world.
Thanks for your time!
-
How much is a reasonable amount to spend on an engagement ring?
I'm probably not qualified to answer this. I don't think I spent a reasonable amount on my wife's engagement ring. It was a rather absurd splurge, but I have no debt or anything, so it's not like it materially hurt my financial position, and I don't regret it.
How do people treat their separate debts when tying the knot?
My wife and I maintain both separate and joint finances; her car loan at the time remained hers. Assets and liabilities only become joint when we explicitly decide to, generally because it's easier to deal with that way (rent, cell phone, groceries, etc.). I think this very much depends on what works for you.
-
I spent about $500 on the engagement ring in 1999 (half a month salary at the time). Still happily married 12 years later. We could afford to upgrade the ring now but my wife won't do it.
-
How much is a reasonable amount to spend on an engagement ring?
I'd say spend as little as possible. I know you want it to be meaningful, but for everyone, spending more seems more meaningful up to a point, and beyond that it seems wasteful. For me, that point is now very low. It just doesn't make sense to say, let's start off the rest of our life together by spending all our money.
I'm a guy. My ring is made of tungsten carbide. Machining bits are made from tungsten carbide, so it doesn't scratch. It was pretty cheap, just not resizeable, so size well or find a place that will exchange. They sell the things on Amazon.
If you go with a diamond for her ring, consider going with a lower-grade clarity. Friends and family aren't going to study the thing under a 10x loupe. Something like SI1 or SI2 is fine.
Would you consider ebay? Something like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-00-CT-Round-Solitaire-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-14k-White-Gold-/271237630925?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item3f2705cbcd&nma=true&si=nrmlrzq7inPsv1tTaEQMOUugYoo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557).
I bought through Blue Nile. It was fine for what I bought, but my wife rarely wears it. It snags on things and pokes me when I hold her hand. I think I spent a little over $2K, and it now seems like it wasn't worth it.
From Retired Syd (http://retiredsyd.typepad.com/retirement_a_fulltime_job/2012/09/wedding-rings-and-retirement.html)
When Doug and I got engaged I told him I didn’t want a ring yet because we were saving for a house. After we bought the house, I said I didn’t want a ring yet because we needed a new car. After that it was a new deck and who remembers what it was after that.
Spending money on a diamond ring means you’re not going to spend that money on something else, something now or something later. By thinking about what I’d rather have each time the subject came up, I finally realized that I never really wanted a diamond ring. For me it was something you were just supposed to have, not something I really wanted.
How do people treat their separate debts when tying the knot?
We merged our finances. I brought about $8K in school debt into the marriage, and my wife brought $100K of debt. I've brought in 90% of our earnings, and now she stays home with the kids and keeps our expenses low.
-
So I take it she has her mind set on receiving an engagement ring? I realize it's tradition, but it seems sort of antiquated to me. The concept is from the old days when the man was supposed to take care of and provide for the woman, as opposed to it being a shared partnership. I married my wife without one, and we were both fine with only buying the wedding rings. My thinking was, since we're going to be equal partners, why would I spend a lot of money on jewelry for her when she wasn't going to do the same for me? And luckily, she agreed.
I guess this is me agreeing with velocistar, saying spend as little as possible.
-
So I take it she has her mind set on receiving an engagement ring? I realize it's tradition, but it seems sort of antiquated to me. The concept is from the old days when the man was supposed to take care of and provide for the woman, as opposed to it being a shared partnership. I married my wife without one, and we were both fine with only buying the wedding rings. My thinking was, since we're going to be equal partners, why would I spend a lot of money on jewelry for her when she wasn't going to do the same for me? And luckily, she agreed.
I guess this is me agreeing with velocistar, saying spend as little as possible.
+1
If there has to be a ring, does it have to be a diamond?
http://apracticalwedding.com/2013/07/non-diamond-engagement-rings/
(note links to other engagement ring posts including buying vintage)
-
I skipped it entirely. We each get a ring when we get married, what's the point of getting two?
I was going to dig up all the previous threads on these topics but I'm too lazy...hey matchewed, we should put this one in the FAQ.
-
I've been of different minds. When I was 25, my limit was about 700-800 euros. Now that I'm 35 and have been through a separation (we weren't married, but might as well been), I would spend maybe 200 max.
Thank god my girlfriend thinks gold is ugly, and diamonds are pompous. As an alternative, I've given her a workshop making jewelry. You get to play with torches and semi precious stones, and you get to make your own ring. Costs a hundred.
As for finances, after the above mentioned separation, I'm of the opinion that there's not enough good reasons to mix love and finances.
-
So I take it she has her mind set on receiving an engagement ring? I realize it's tradition, but it seems sort of antiquated to me. The concept is from the old days when the man was supposed to take care of and provide for the woman, as opposed to it being a shared partnership. I married my wife without one, and we were both fine with only buying the wedding rings. My thinking was, since we're going to be equal partners, why would I spend a lot of money on jewelry for her when she wasn't going to do the same for me? And luckily, she agreed.
I guess this is me agreeing with velocistar, saying spend as little as possible.
It is entirely a partnership and a bit dated. I had the money sitting in an account, but hadn't gotten around to selecting the ring. My girlfriend at the time was annoyed that I wasn't asking her (this ignores the "engagement house down-payment" I gave) and then suddenly realized - wait a second... why am I annoyed he isn't asking when I am perfectly capable. So she went out, found a ring and bought it for me :) (it was under $100). I did recipricate and we had amazing luck with estate jewelry (aka used). We got a lovely ring for $750 which would have cost ~4k new.
Lesson to be learned - used is cheaper than new
- If you want new, be smart about it. Diamonds are a cartel and artificially inflated in price. A synthetic (which would be of better quality than any natural stone) can be had at 1/10th the price and it is impossible for the average person to tell the difference. So if you must go with new, get her a nice synth diamond :)
-
As an alternative, I've given her a workshop making jewelry. You get to play with torches and semi precious stones, and you get to make your own ring. Costs a hundred.
That's awesome! My partner makes some nice jewelry with a small oxyacetylene torch but I wish I'd thought to buy supplies as an engagement present!
-
My engagement ring and band cost $250. It had 13 tiny diamonds in yellow gold. We bought it at a department store.
I no longer wear it as I was sick to death of breaking off prongs and flattening the band, and digging paint out of all the tiny little holes. I am an artist an work with my hands quite a bit, and very hard on jewelry, so while I like shiny objects, I don't wear them very often. I also started realizing that it's a hunk of shiny rock and metal that has an artificially inflated value. I'd sell it for what we could get if my husband wasn't still sort of sentimental about it. I'm just glad we didn't drop more money on something so incredible stupid. I have no interest in showing off to other women, and I don't attach any self-worth to how much my husband paid for something like that.
I currently wear a stainless steel band that we got at a funky little flea market for $8. It's beautiful and doesn't scratch or deform and I get quite a few compliments on it, strangely enough. Hubby got a matching one at the same time, and he really likes his too - it's much nicer than what he had before and has no interest in ever wearing his old band.
No matter how much you pay for a ring, no matter how much certifications and reassurances you get from the jeweler... it's almost never going to be worth what you paid. Most of the time, it will be quite a bit less, and that is if you even decide to sell it at some future date. The money you spend is forever bound up in the ring, and unless you're carrying around your certifications and a jewel's loupe to pass out to everyone she meets so they can properly examine it, most people would have no idea that the ring is this or that grade or just how much you did or didn't spend. So when looking, keep that in mind as well.
I'm partial to the idea of looking at antique shops for vintage rings if I had to have something now. Those are worth more in terms of design and uniqueness and history, and price wise, they will not set you back as badly as a mass produced jewelry store ring.
What you spend on the ring is up to you and your intended spouse. It is sometimes a flat out "I want a fancy ring" and no budging, so be prepared to do the best you can without going into debt and still make her happy. BUT if you could discuss and maybe work around to a compromise, that would be great if she's willing to think of why she wants what she wants.
As far as the debts before marriage...this is just my feelings on it, but they are shared debts after you get married. If you go into a marriage/partnership with the idea that you're keeping things like that separate, then it sort of means that there is some sort of resentment or distrust or something... lacking in the overall relationship in my opinion. You're a team, so you should act like it. It doesn't mean that the one that incurred the debt shouldn't feel a deep sense of obligation to work harder to tackle that debt, tho, and they sure as hell shouldn't be irresponsible and rack up further debt or hide money or the like. Not that I'm saying that's your fiancee - she actually sounds very nice - but it's something else to make sure you've discussed at length (handling of money and debts) before you make it official. ;)
-
Wow there are a lot of great options here. I've been trying to look through EBAY and Craigslist, its just really hard to find the type of design that she would want if I were to get an engagement ring. I really like the idea of just getting wedding bands. If that works out I can use the money saved to throw at a small party for friends and family to celebrate. =)
-
I'm of the opinion that big engagements rings (and especially diamonds) are a ridiculous and silly tradition, but I got reamed on a different thread for saying that in a judgemental way, so I'm trying to be more kind!
For how much is reasonable, I think you need to look at your finances and see what you can afford and then see if that is something she would be happy with. She said she would be happier with something much for affordable, but has she seen what those rings look like? If a big, sparkly diamond is something she has her heart set on, she may actually be really disappointed with what a $3000 ring looks like. Then you're out $3000 and she isn't happy!
For what is affordable, I'll parrot everyone else and say antique stores and estate jewelery can be reasonably priced, and stay away from diamonds if you can. There are some truly gorgeous stones that are far more beautiful than diamonds and much cheaper (Anyone ever been to the Hall of Minerals at the Smithsonian? The diamonds are laughably boring compared to all the other sparkles!). Most people are so brainwashed by the genius advertising of DeBeers that they never consider other options. I'm a big fan of pearls and sapphires, myself!
Congratulations on your upcoming engagement! I think your girlfriend sounds lovely!
-
If a big, sparkly diamond is something she has her heart set on, she may actually be really disappointed with what a $3000 ring looks like. Then you're out $3000 and she isn't happy!
Congratulations on your upcoming engagement! I think your girlfriend sounds lovely!
Great Quote, and thank you I think so too!!
-
I spent about 40 on the engagement ring, as it was to be switched for a proper wedding ring at the wedding.
We spent about 300 for the pair. We have stainless steel ones (we both think gold is ugly, and silver doesn't really do it either), those are much cheaper, plus they were hand made by the jeweller himself, meaning you can tinker with the design a little and have truly unique ones. Ours are simple yet elegant.
-
OP, have you looked at moissanite? http://www.moissanite.com/educate/what-is-moissanite
It's much cheaper and nearly identical or in some cases superior to diamond. And nobody's getting killed in Africa.
-
I spent $1000 on the engagement ring and $400 on the band and my wife had them attached together. I got a cheap titanium ring (cannot be resized).
-
OP, have you looked at moissanite? http://www.moissanite.com/educate/what-is-moissanite
It's much cheaper and nearly identical or in some cases superior to diamond. And nobody's getting killed in Africa.
I've not considered it - I think as long as its shiny no one except a trained jeweler will know the difference. I will def look into it. :)
-
goddammit. (hangs head in shame...) i bought my fiancee a 1+ carat diamond ring literally a month before coming across MMM. I've always thought diamonds were bullshit and looked into moissanite a bit but got pressured into "oh you can't buy her that cheap stuff" mentality by family and friends. I've always been a traveler and I figure with that money I can get my fiancee and I a pair of Round the world tickets with it. My aunt is a jeweler in Hong Kong, and I was going to design the ring and send her the money. The ring was about 6k = (1 month salary dafuq)! and I wrestled with the idea of printing out a picture of the ring and a picture about 6k worth of cash. I went to the bank and took out 6 thousand dollars and had my aunt send over the picture of a similar size ring. (we haven't start the design yet) and I was going to get down on my knee and ask my girlfriend to pick one. In the end, I didn't do it because I realized that even though she's somewhat frugal and I think she would love anything that I give her, I know she'll like the social status among her peers that comes with a diamond. and I know she'll cherish it. I put my story here, hoping someone, someday would use my proposal idea. I think it's a pretty good proposal idea. I still have the images on my computer.
p.s. she loves the ring but said it didn't need to be that big and she didn't even pay attention to the certificate of authenticity and threw it in a drawer.
p.p.s In hindsight, I could've gotten something smaller and cheaper, but I'm also helping my aunt with her business.
p.p.p.s I still think the diamond industry is bullshit.
-
For something rather more interesting there's an option called 'wedding ring workshop'.
You work with a professional jeweler and make your own rings, from the molten metal to the finished ring, usually in a day.
People have described as an 'experience'.
Just another option.
-
I told my husband (then boyfriend) I didn't want a ring, I just wanted to be married to him.
He thought I was being romantic, or something, and bought me a ring anyways.
First, he didn't spend an obscene amount - probably $1,200 (which still seems high, but not in comparison to some others I've heard I've). Second, if you pick the right style, cut, etc., you can give the appearance of a bigger diamond, when you're only paying for a .75 karat stone.
Third, I wasn't kidding when I said I didn't want an engagement ring. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful and I do like how it looks on, and I did like the attention random strangers (usually old ladies) would give me when they realized I was engaged to be married.
But honestly, I often wear only my wedding band now that we are married. (We took our parents' bands, so we didn't pay anything extra for them, and, mine is a sweet 70's retro style that looks really cool with my more timeless and simple engagement ring).
The reasons I wear only my wedding band: I'm uncomfortable wearing a single item of jewelry that costs more than I have in my savings account. (I've since fixed the low savings balance, by the way)
And, as a result, I'm worried I will somehow damage it, lose it, or get it stolen.
Also, it doesn't fit well into my motorcycle gloves.
So, in summary, consider whether she'll actually feel comfortable wearing the ring in addition to the costs.
-
My parents didnt have money for an engagement ring, so they bought two gold bands that they still wear today, 48 years later. That's the goal to strive for.
-
I love my engagement ring, but I seriously regret that we spent so much on it. We were seriously broke college students, and in retrospect, we should have gotten matching bands. Now, I see smart girls choosing other stones, pearls, or even cubic zirconia for their rings. I think something made by an artist (etsy) would be unique and special. I recently read an article entitled something like "diamonds are bullsh@t". Basically, diamonds aren't really an investment and they're not all that rare. One company owns all the mines and cutting and sets retail prices.
We combined our assets, or rather lack of them. I have always looked at it as our money, even though I have been a stay at home mom for 15+ years. Works for us, but everyone has to work out their own comfort level. Good luck!
-
I don't think anyone has posted it yet, but do you have a family ring available? Engagement rings are traditional and diamonds are forever, so double down on the tradition if you can. I asked my mother for her ring (not wearing it anymore) which used to belong to my Dad's grandmother. It's a bit more meaningful than a diamond shipped from Africa.
Obviously this isn't an option for everyone, but if it is for you, try it.
-
I spent about $200 on the engagement ring for my wife. I think spending anymore than that is pretty stupid.
As for debts and assets I think assuming you are young and not hugely wealthy everything gets combined and you try to work together to save and move forward.
-
I want one like this! http://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/151899116/gold-silver-pink-gold-diamond-shaped?ref=sr_gallery_3&sref=sr_32d3eb79a69c671aae72e1ce0fb899fe994fb63e8e1a9204df1d9a7357383514_1374895367_14241541_ring&ga_search_query=Silver+diamond+ring&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_ship_to=CA&ga_page=3&ga_search_type=all
-
Does she really want a diamond? As socially conscious as she is, I am surprised she would want one that might have come from and funded slavery, war, and terror. I personally would choose either a CZ or a used one based on that.
One comment on other stones though - I had opals in my wedding ring, managed to crack them while winter camping. Evidently you can destroy them if they get too cold. Also, pearls are a little delicate if you are expecting something to stand up to daily use for the next 70 years. So be aware of durability. This really is a buy it for life item! If you go with synthetics, pay for it to be set in gold or Sterling silver is also fine, but don't get anything plated. Daily wear with plating may last for 5 years (if you're really lucky.). It will not last 70!
-
Also if I needed one to impress friends and family: http://www.fantasyjewelrybox.com/
-
My husband was really set on the idea of an engagement ring, so I suggested garnet, which is my favorite stone (I hate diamonds and made it clear I would not wear one). He got me a nice big sparkly solitaire for $100. Our wedding rings were matching endless knot designs in sterling silver bought from a hippie with a street kiosk. He made them himself, and the pair cost $54. Now, I wear a plain white gold band ($60) because the original was too bulky for my hand and hurt over time. He nearly jerked his finger off by getting the ring stuck one time too many working on cars or heavy equipment and I put my foot down and got him to quit wearing his. The marriage abides. :)
-
I think a great lower price option is an antique ring. They are one of kind and lovely. http://www.brilliantearth.com/The-Leilani-Ring-White-Gold-BTG675034/
Also you ought to check with her family. A ring that has been in her family would be low cost and it's sentimental value would make it priceless.
-
My wedding ring is a Titanium bearing retainer with a quartz Triangle inserted into it, cost $35 on a website, my wife's wedding ring is a simple sterling silver celtic knot wrap that we found in a lake on a camping trip, she refuses to wear anything else. I did get her a $500 engagement ring, but we had to sell that later on (got $650 for it) to pay for some emergency dental work.
-
When I got engaged I had been saving up to buy shares in a company called AC Cars (the car geeks may remember the AC Cobra) which had recently moved to my home town and been floated on the London stock market. I really wanted these shares (actually, I really wanted one of their cars, but that was never going to happen!) but instead I got engaged and used all the money to buy a very tastefully understated engagement ring by a local designer with a top quality diamond and 9 carat gold.
The shares took off, then crashed a year or two later. The marriage is still going strong 27 years later. I have absolutely no regrets about the cost of the ring!
-
Does she really want a diamond? As socially conscious as she is, I am surprised she would want one that might have come from and funded slavery, war, and terror. I personally would choose either a CZ or a used one based on that.
One comment on other stones though - I had opals in my wedding ring, managed to crack them while winter camping. Evidently you can destroy them if they get too cold. Also, pearls are a little delicate if you are expecting something to stand up to daily use for the next 70 years. So be aware of durability. This really is a buy it for life item! If you go with synthetics, pay for it to be set in gold or Sterling silver is also fine, but don't get anything plated. Daily wear with plating may last for 5 years (if you're really lucky.). It will not last 70!
You are correct that pearls and opals are not durable. The girl I met with a pearl figured she might have to replace the pearl. They aren't terribly expensive. I also agree with getting a solid metal. Even silver is great if you keep it polished.
-
Does she really want a diamond? As socially conscious as she is, I am surprised she would want one that might have come from and funded slavery, war, and terror. I personally would choose either a CZ or a used one based on that.
One comment on other stones though - I had opals in my wedding ring, managed to crack them while winter camping. Evidently you can destroy them if they get too cold. Also, pearls are a little delicate if you are expecting something to stand up to daily use for the next 70 years. So be aware of durability. This really is a buy it for life item! If you go with synthetics, pay for it to be set in gold or Sterling silver is also fine, but don't get anything plated. Daily wear with plating may last for 5 years (if you're really lucky.). It will not last 70!
You are correct that pearls and opals are not durable. The girl I met with a pearl figured she might have to replace the pearl. They aren't terribly expensive. I also agree with getting a solid metal. Even silver is great if you keep it polished.
Don't get pearls. I got pearls in my ring and they became dull and then fell out. I had them replaced and a year and half later it happened again. I am about to replace them with stones instead. I don't want a ring that is a continual money suck.
-
Does she really want a diamond? As socially conscious as she is, I am surprised she would want one that might have come from and funded slavery, war, and terror. I personally would choose either a CZ or a used one based on that.
One comment on other stones though - I had opals in my wedding ring, managed to crack them while winter camping. Evidently you can destroy them if they get too cold. Also, pearls are a little delicate if you are expecting something to stand up to daily use for the next 70 years. So be aware of durability. This really is a buy it for life item! If you go with synthetics, pay for it to be set in gold or Sterling silver is also fine, but don't get anything plated. Daily wear with plating may last for 5 years (if you're really lucky.). It will not last 70!
You are correct that pearls and opals are not durable. The girl I met with a pearl figured she might have to replace the pearl. They aren't terribly expensive. I also agree with getting a solid metal. Even silver is great if you keep it polished.
Don't get pearls. I got pearls in my ring and they became dull and then fell out. I had them replaced and a year and half later it happened again. I am about to replace them with stones instead. I don't want a ring that is a continual money suck.
Semi-Precious stones ar an option and usually are much cheaper, and in my opinion much better looking.
-
I haven't read all the replies, but this is what I did.
Consider a fake diamond. I spent $150 on the ring, and $70 on a hand made wooden box.
My wife never had the faintest idea it was a "man made" diamond, until I told her three years later.
PS it was mostly the ring design that drew me to the fake diamond. Anything with real diamonds just seemed ghastly.
As for our debts, I took 20k student loan into the marriage, and paid it back through pay check deductions. But technically since we combined all our income into a single account it was essentially shared. If her interest rates are significantly low do t worry about it. By investing your spare income you are sharing the debt burden.
-
I'm another one in support of the CZ/Moissanite/Semi-precious stone route if she is onboard with the idea. I've never been a big fan of diamonds (for many reasons), and very early on in our relationship I made sure to get my wife's opinion on the topic, and was glad she was on board. After doing months of research I ended up getting her a beautiful ring for less than $700 from http://www.ashadiamonds.com/. Asha is a brand name for a type of coated CZ, it has held up really well so far and she still gets complements on it all the time. We got both of our wedding bands on ebay for pretty cheap, and hers came as part of a set which we were able to sell the rest of on craigslist for what we paid for the set.
As far as combining finances, there are lots of ways to do it. We basically just combined everything but both have our own personal checking accounts which we put a small amount of money into monthly for gifts/dates/etc, mostly as a way to surprise the other. As far as the loan, once you are married in my opinion debts and assets are both shared at that point, so anything you have leftover after ring(s) and wedding would make sense to go to it then. Or invest it if she really insists on paying the loan from her share of the finances.
-
Whoa whoa whoa, I am somewhat of a diamond and jewelry hobbyist expert, and am a regular on a diamond/jewelry forum, and I love my engagement ring and all my diamond jewelry. I realize it's not for everyone, but if your lady wants a diamond, I think you should get her one.
Biggest tip I can offer: buy online from a reputable online seller and get the best CUT you can get. Cut does not equal shape. Cut equals the best angles for the best light return, sparkliest stone, and a stone that 'faces up' the correct size for its carat weight. Educate yourself with the internet and don't get suckered into a bad deal. We have so many people who come to the diamond forum saying, "Did I get a good deal?" and we often have to say "Absolutely not, can you return it?"
My engagement ring and an anniversary band I have are from Whiteflash.com, our white gold wedding bands are from e-weddingbands.com (cheapest and nicest I've ever found), and I've also had good luck going with reputable eBay sellers, sellers on DiamondBistro.com or LoupeTroop.com, and having custom pieces made on Etsy.com. I especially like antique diamonds (Old European cuts vs. modern round brilliant cuts)
Not sure if we can link to other forums here, but if you google "diamond forum" you will find it. People there are happy to help you find the best thing for your budget, even if it's a relatively small budget. Don't be put off by the large diamonds, many of the people on the forum are older and the rings are 'upgrades' from their original 1/4 carat or 1/2 carat rings.
-
Don't get pearls. I got pearls in my ring and they became dull and then fell out. I had them replaced and a year and half later it happened again. I am about to replace them with stones instead. I don't want a ring that is a continual money suck.
She's right. Pearls do not belong in a ring where they will get banged around and ruined.
Pearls are gorgeous on your ears or around your neck.
-
Can I recommend this article from A Practical Wedding? Which is actually a great resource for non-crazymaking wedding planning.
http://apracticalwedding.com/2013/03/i-want-an-expensive-engagement-ring/
(Ignore the title, it is mostly about negotiating gift-giving and expectations about engagement rings).
We can come up with all kinds of "less expensive" ways to have rings, but what works for you can only be figured out in conversation with your partner.
-
Wow there are a lot of great options here. I've been trying to look through EBAY and Craigslist, its just really hard to find the type of design that she would want if I were to get an engagement ring. I really like the idea of just getting wedding bands. If that works out I can use the money saved to throw at a small party for friends and family to celebrate. =)
You could try GreenKarat.com. They will custom-make rings for you or slightly alter, to suit your tastes, whatever rings they have on their site. Also, you can order "X ring with a ruby/white sapphire/moissanite/emerald/whatever instead of a diamond" or "X ring with a smaller diamond" to reduce the list price.
And how does your fiancee feel about lab-created gemstones? That's what's in my absolutely gorgeous engagement ring, which DH got at Green Karat (we designed it together by having them modify a design on their website and switching out the metal and stone for ones I liked more). IMHO a lab-created diamond is like a hydroponic tomato--in other words it's real, it just grew in a different way than ones created in nature. And objectively speaking, that's just the truth; a lab-created sapphire or whatever IS a sapphire, chemically and physically indistinguishable from a sapphire that came out of the ground, except for the fact that it's perfect (nothing in nature is perfect, but lab-created gems are). Oh, it's perfect AND it's a lot cheaper! :)
-
OP, have you looked at moissanite? http://www.moissanite.com/educate/what-is-moissanite
It's much cheaper and nearly identical or in some cases superior to diamond. And nobody's getting killed in Africa.
I have some moissanites in my engagement ring. They are BEAUTIFUL, and like all moissanites, measurably MORE sparkly than diamonds of the same size: http://www.4facets.com/moissanite.html
The clincher for me was the extreme COOLNESS of where moissanite originally came from: a shooting star! (Or in everyday terms, a meteorite.) Moissanite is not naturally formed on the earth, but in I think the 19th century a French guy called Moisson discovered a meteorite that contained these astonishingly lovely sparkly gems. It got named moissanite, after him, and until someone figured out how to make it in a lab, the only moissanite on earth came on shooting stars. The gems in the shooting stars were not big enough to make good jewelry from, so all moissanite jewelry by definition is lab-created, but HOW COOL that this gemstone isn't even from earth; it's so celestial, so outer space-y... I just think that's really cool.
-
When we were discussing getting married, my husband made it clear that one thing he wanted to do was design our wedding rings himself. To him, the wedding rings were the important rings - the engagement ring wasn't so much. His mother game him some of her mother's jewellery and he had it melted down and designed two beautiful - and very unique - rings and had them made. Total cost - around $500.
I agreed with his sentiment entirely, and we went together to a jewellery shop and chose a beautiful ring with an ethically-sourced garnet (I don't like diamonds) for under $200. My engagement ring wasn't a surprise, but he surprised me at the wedding with the wedding rings!
We combined finances before we got married, and I helped him set a budget to pay off $400 he had on a credit card. We then cancelled the card. He also had a $20k student loan, but in NZ student loans are 0% interest and they just deduct 10% (now 12%) of your pay until it's paid off. It's set to be gone in 20 months, so no worries. I remember sitting down together and having a discussion about what money meant to us and what was important in the future, and what we could do together if we committed to saving a significant amount. This really helped us start off on the right track.
-
I have a moderate diamond engagement ring, a ten-year anniversary band, and a wedding band. After 23 years of marriage, I still love my engagement ring and wear it every day. Before you go über-practical and say you're going to skip this unnecessary item be sure your future fiancée feels the same way. I would've felt a little "left out" if I hadn't had an engagement ring.
As for bringing debt into the marriage, this is too broad a question to answer here. Too many variables.
-
I think my ring was $200. It's a diamond tension set into titanium. I think it looks cool. Even cooler, the guy we talked to when it needed resizing was named Zoltan!
-
Yeah, you need to talk to her. Surprises are nice and all, but...
Well, for me, I overspent. We were still in school at the time, and half my summer's wage went into that ring. (~3800$). It is gorgeous, of course-- palladium, as big a diamond as won't look pimp-ish on her finger; I got a great deal from a family jeweller who's a fixture in this town. 50% off because the diamond (certified Canadian-- no blood on her hands) was popped out of a band he couldn't move, and the band was on sale from the manufacturer. (Palladium isn't very popular, I guess.) He knew what I could afford to pay, and while he made sure I spent exactly that... we did get our moneys worth. It was a wonderful surprise for her, and she loves it.
BUT it turns out she would have been happy with something that only cost a couple hundred bucks. Whups. Lesson in communication, there. At 3600$, it's the priciest conversation I never had.
For our wedding bands, they're $0.05 each. Literally. We made them ourselves out of a couple nickels. (Okay, if I must do a full accounting it might be upwards of $0.50, since I'd have to count the wear on the sandpaper, stainless steel, and the bit of polishing compound used, along with the two we broke figuring out the technique.) Great savings, great memory, and a great story. Though for some reason all her friends just think we're nuts...
-
OP, have you looked at moissanite? http://www.moissanite.com/educate/what-is-moissanite
It's much cheaper and nearly identical or in some cases superior to diamond. And nobody's getting killed in Africa.
I've not considered it - I think as long as its shiny no one except a trained jeweler will know the difference. I will def look into it. :)
I've seen moissanite, and while I'm not trained, I can't tell the difference. My finacee couldn't tell the difference either and she compared a diamond, CZ and moissanite. She picked out which was the CZ but couldn't tell the difference between the moissanite and diamond. Of course, some people thing because moissanite is man-made it is cheap and doesn't represent the marriage. Totally depends on the girl.
-
Don't buy retail or pay retail prices! They are a total rip off. My family is in jewelry and pawn shops and won't let any of us look at retail. If you live near a larger city, go to their jewelry mart. In Los Angeles, the jewelry mart has hundreds of little stalls. They can even custom make your ring.
Consider custom designs that use semi-precious or even no stones. Filigree is awesome for either the antique or ornate look and you are paying the artisan, not for the stone. Go for cut not necessarily lack of "flaws". If you really aren't into jewelry, don't bother looking at the stone under magnification.
Ask both sets of parents to see if there are any heirloom rings or stones. My diamond is from a set of earrings my grandmother wore. My sister has the matching one. The stones are actually crap, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. My ornate "antique" setting in platinum cost my husband only a couple hundred from our jewelry mart. It is the exact same one I saw at Robbins Bros.
-
Can I recommend this article from A Practical Wedding? Which is actually a great resource for non-crazymaking wedding planning.
http://apracticalwedding.com/2013/03/i-want-an-expensive-engagement-ring/
I LOVE this site! I got married the same year that it started up, when the blogger was just starting it, and it was like my anchor in a sea of wedding industrial complex forces.
Unfortunately, I did not have a WIC counter-force during the engagement ring process and my spouse got me a diamond ring, which is very pretty but I now know that I wanted a *diamond* because my family pretty much told me that if he didn't buy me a diamond, we weren't really engaged. Ridiculousness. Anywho ... I love my ring and it was $2k on Blue Nile (www.bluenile.com). As much as we tried to avoid getting ripped off, everything seemed like a ripoff: retail or jewelers or bloodless diamonds or whatever. So although Blue Nile isn't devoid of feeling like the whole diamond thing is shady business, they were the most trustworthy to us. They have a wide range of diamonds and my spouse picked just about exactly what he wanted and they set it in the setting I wanted ;) When we buy jewelry, it's only from them.
-
I don't think anyone has posted it yet, but do you have a family ring available? Engagement rings are traditional and diamonds are forever, so double down on the tradition if you can. I asked my mother for her ring (not wearing it anymore) which used to belong to my Dad's grandmother. It's a bit more meaningful than a diamond shipped from Africa.
Obviously this isn't an option for everyone, but if it is for you, try it.
This was my thought. My husband and I wear my grandparent's rings. Before she died, my mother in law gave me her diamond, an aunt's cameo, etc. that were to be passed to grandchildren (or their future spouses) after they reached a certain age. Hers was an old monied family with a tradition of passing things along instead of buying new.
-
I wouldn't give up a planned engagement or wedding over a ring, but think its wise to try to get an idea of expectations early in a relationship. I believe expectations for rings is a quite decent indicator of the attitudes and values of a person. One of my friends whose engagement was broken off afterwards regretted the hugely expensive rings, not so much because of the cost but because he so completely went against his own values when cashing out for it just because she declared that she wanted it. There was no compromise. Of course its easy to realize all the small things that weren't quite right after the fact, but... I think this is one of the things that are a good indicator of the goals/personality of a person. So my advice would be to try and bring up the topics of weddings and rings in a casual way. If she/he expressed interest in keeping it all low-key and intimate, that's a good sign for a mustachian.
-
Whoa whoa whoa, I am somewhat of a diamond and jewelry hobbyist expert, and am a regular on a diamond/jewelry forum, and I love my engagement ring and all my diamond jewelry. I realize it's not for everyone, but if your lady wants a diamond, I think you should get her one.
Biggest tip I can offer: buy online from a reputable online seller and get the best CUT you can get. Cut does not equal shape. Cut equals the best angles for the best light return, sparkliest stone, and a stone that 'faces up' the correct size for its carat weight. Educate yourself with the internet and don't get suckered into a bad deal. We have so many people who come to the diamond forum saying, "Did I get a good deal?" and we often have to say "Absolutely not, can you return it?"
My engagement ring and an anniversary band I have are from Whiteflash.com, our white gold wedding bands are from e-weddingbands.com (cheapest and nicest I've ever found), and I've also had good luck going with reputable eBay sellers, sellers on DiamondBistro.com or LoupeTroop.com, and having custom pieces made on Etsy.com. I especially like antique diamonds (Old European cuts vs. modern round brilliant cuts)
Not sure if we can link to other forums here, but if you google "diamond forum" you will find it. People there are happy to help you find the best thing for your budget, even if it's a relatively small budget. Don't be put off by the large diamonds, many of the people on the forum are older and the rings are 'upgrades' from their original 1/4 carat or 1/2 carat rings.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. Rubybeth and I post on the same forum (although I use a different name).
Whatever you decide to do, please educate yourself before making a decision. There are knowledgable people out there that can help you choose something perfect for your partner if she wants a diamond or semi/precious stone.
In the interest of full disclosure, we spent a "large" amount on our engagement ring. I love it to death and my husband still gets a kick out of the cut (not the shape!). We considered Whiteflash too but went with Brian Gavin Diamonds.
-
Whoa whoa whoa, I am somewhat of a diamond and jewelry hobbyist expert, and am a regular on a diamond/jewelry forum, and I love my engagement ring and all my diamond jewelry. I realize it's not for everyone, but if your lady wants a diamond, I think you should get her one.
Biggest tip I can offer: buy online from a reputable online seller and get the best CUT you can get. Cut does not equal shape. Cut equals the best angles for the best light return, sparkliest stone, and a stone that 'faces up' the correct size for its carat weight. Educate yourself with the internet and don't get suckered into a bad deal. We have so many people who come to the diamond forum saying, "Did I get a good deal?" and we often have to say "Absolutely not, can you return it?"
My engagement ring and an anniversary band I have are from Whiteflash.com, our white gold wedding bands are from e-weddingbands.com (cheapest and nicest I've ever found), and I've also had good luck going with reputable eBay sellers, sellers on DiamondBistro.com or LoupeTroop.com, and having custom pieces made on Etsy.com. I especially like antique diamonds (Old European cuts vs. modern round brilliant cuts)
Not sure if we can link to other forums here, but if you google "diamond forum" you will find it. People there are happy to help you find the best thing for your budget, even if it's a relatively small budget. Don't be put off by the large diamonds, many of the people on the forum are older and the rings are 'upgrades' from their original 1/4 carat or 1/2 carat rings.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. Rubybeth and I post on the same forum (although I use a different name).
Whatever you decide to do, please educate yourself before making a decision. There are knowledgable people out there that can help you choose something perfect for your partner if she wants a diamond or semi/precious stone.
In the interest of full disclosure, we spent a "large" amount on our engagement ring. I love it to death and my husband still gets a kick out of the cut (not the shape!). We considered Whiteflash too but went with Brian Gavin Diamonds.
Yay, I was hoping you'd chime in, as well, Kitty! Though I haven't ever purchased from Brian Gavin Diamonds, every e-mail I've sent has been promptly responded to with much care and attention, so I'd vouch for them, as well. Also, my diamond earrings are from them but purchased second-hand from another diamond forum member.
Also in the interest of full disclosure, DH spent about $1,200 on my original engagement ring, so not a huge amount by most standards, but it felt like a lavish amount at the time, esp. since our wedding only cost about $6k. But like I like to say, the only things you get to keep from the wedding are the jewelry, the photos, and the marriage license. :)
-
Okay, I'll bite: what is the difference between a $1,200 diamond ring and a $50 sterling silver ring, aside from cost? Does it make you feel like your marriage is more legitimate somehow when you wear it? What kind of "kick" does a person get out of giving someone it?
No offense intended, I'm honestly mystified and hope one of you can explain.
-
Okay, I'll bite: what is the difference between a $1,200 diamond ring and a $50 sterling silver ring, aside from cost? Does it make you feel like your marriage is more legitimate somehow when you wear it? What kind of "kick" does a person get out of giving someone it?
No offense intended, I'm honestly mystified and hope one of you can explain.
Can't say for the ladies, but as the man who bought the absurdly-priced-ring ("Only $1,200? For my woman? Scoff! I'll pay no less than I would for a car!") it's caught up in a lot of age-old gender bullshit about being a good provider, etc. In a way, it's like antlers. The giant rack on a moose is his way of saying "Look, babe, I'm so fit I can afford to waste half my calories growing and carrying around these enormous, useless things."
The giant diamond satisfies a similar urge (probably socialized) in the male psyche : "Look, babe. I'm so flush I can afford to waste half my income on this enormous gaudy rock for you." Also, we want to show our love and devotion by making some great sacrifice. What else does a man in our society have to sacrifice these days than money?
Truth is, it's bullshit. Materialistic, I've-got-more-than-you bullshit. I think for the ladies it probably is, too, since they always seem to be comparing the size of their stones.
I said in a previous reply to this thread we forged our wedding bands from nickel-- which may have cost a couple bucks, total. That we did it together, using metal that was in large part mined in our hometown, makes for a far more meaningful symbol of our partnership and our roots than the giant shiny rock I bought her when we got engaged. I'd thought to make her something then, too, but lacked the courage of my convictions. What if she laughed? What if she spurned me? What if it didn't turn out? So I spent far to much, to wow her and ensure she'd say yes. I absolutely didn't have to, and I should have known it. The fact that for the wedding bands she helped me find the courage to do it ourselves is another very powerful layer of meaning on the cheap-ass rings, to me.
-
I don't think anyone has posted it yet, but do you have a family ring available? Engagement rings are traditional and diamonds are forever, so double down on the tradition if you can. I asked my mother for her ring (not wearing it anymore) which used to belong to my Dad's grandmother. It's a bit more meaningful than a diamond shipped from Africa.
Obviously this isn't an option for everyone, but if it is for you, try it.
I agree, if this is an option available to you, definitely look into it. My husband had his great-grandmother's engagement ring - she got married in the early 1920s - and he had the diamond from the ring taken and put into a new band as an engagement ring for me. I love that there is history behind it, especially as my side of the family has absolutely no heirlooms that get passed down. It think this is a good option if you have something like this in your family, and it strikes a good balance between being practical and spoiling your significant other (old diamond, but new band).
-
Okay, I'll bite: what is the difference between a $1,200 diamond ring and a $50 sterling silver ring, aside from cost? Does it make you feel like your marriage is more legitimate somehow when you wear it? What kind of "kick" does a person get out of giving someone it?
No offense intended, I'm honestly mystified and hope one of you can explain.
Well, first of all, a diamond looks different (different light dispersion) than a fakey (cz, moissy, etc.), and silver tarnishes, while white gold and platinum don't. A diamond is also much harder than other material, including other gem stones, so it's wearable every day. I also like that it's a clear stone vs. a colored stone, because it always looks good with whatever nail polish I wear--another mystifying 'lady temptation,' but it keeps me from biting my nails, so does have a purpose.
I don't think my marriage is more 'legitimate' than yours if you only spent $20, just that you have different priorities. It's the same with our $6k wedding vs. a friend's $20k wedding. Are they more 'married' than us? No, they just wanted a bigger party.
As for what someone gets out of giving an engagement ring? A future wife! A ring is a gift, and it's a symbol. Is it important for everyone? No, of course not. But my DH knew I would like a ring, so he got me one.
As for why I like it, I guess I could ask, why does anyone like pretty things? Why have people been making and wearing jewelry for thousands of years?
I, like many women and some men, really enjoy jewelry, especially diamonds, which most people on this forum are probably mystified by, but that's okay. I budget and save for it just like any other large purchase. I also like helping people on the diamond forum get the best bang for their buck. I'm always trying to convince guys who want to buy from Tiffany or Cartier to skip the brand name and go for less expensive AND better quality with a trusted online vendor. :)
-
Well, first of all, a diamond looks different (different light dispersion) than a fakey (cz, moissy, etc.)
I know just about nothing about this - what is the difference? I was trying to get a picture or something to show the difference - this is the best I could come up with: http://www.moissanitevsdiamondrings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Moissanite_JFire_Test-Large.jpg
Is moissy too shiny, CZ not enough (for your tastes)?
-
Okay, I'll bite: what is the difference between a $1,200 diamond ring and a $50 sterling silver ring, aside from cost? Does it make you feel like your marriage is more legitimate somehow when you wear it? What kind of "kick" does a person get out of giving someone it?
No offense intended, I'm honestly mystified and hope one of you can explain.
It's a matter of taste, not legitimacy.
As for the kick someone gets out of giving it to someone? First, the same kick that comes from giving anyone an engagement ring that she'll wear forever. Second, the kick of giving her something she really wants (if that's the case) the only time in her life that she'll get it (if that's the case). Third, and feel free to disagree, I think that plunking down a significant chunk of change for a gift* makes a statement about your commitment to that person. Like it or leave it, it's the truth: plunking down that kind of cash for someone lets her know you're serious. The same concept is true of giving a family stone, although I think the commitment statement is even more pronounced there -- you're not going to give someone your grandmother's ring if you're not committed to spending the rest of your life with her.
* or, as some would say, consideration on a contract to marry. But it is the same idea.
-
I get that, but it does go against a lot of what is preached here at MMM though. I'm not judging anyone's tastes in jewelry, but there is a major theme among most people here that material things are relatively unimportant in the larger picture, outside of utility and comfort. Especially when those material things set you back financially meaning delaying FI date or forsaking freedom to do/buy something else. I won't protest if that $1000 or $10000 truly provides an amount of sheer happiness and joy that cannot be acquired in any other way. But I think that many or most people here would argue that other things (not necessarily costing money at all) can provide that happiness or contentment. And I also think that not spending that amount on a ring does not mean that one would not forsake that kind of money or 10x the amount or the corresponding work hours for the SO. Just not on a ring.
-
Well, first of all, a diamond looks different (different light dispersion) than a fakey (cz, moissy, etc.)... A diamond is also much harder than other material, including other gem stones, so it's wearable every day.
"Fakey"? That word seems to suggest that you are buying into the "diamonds are the only proper engagement-ring stone" BS. FYI, if you like white (clear, like diamonds) stones, moissanite has a slightly HIGHER refractive index than diamonds--meaning it's even more sparkly, albeit just by a little bit--and it's also the second-hardest gemstone on earth, slightly harder than rubies/sapphires*, which millions of women wear every day. Here's a link:
http://www.moissanite.com/educate/faqs/#.
* Rubies and sapphires are actually the same stone (namely, corundum) in different colors. Sapphires come in every color of the rainbow (including white), and red is one of them. There are a zillion links on that but here are a couple:
http://blog.igem.com/2010/rubies-and-sapphires-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/
http://www.callagold.com/jewelry-education/did-you-know-rubies-and-sapphires-are-the-same-stone/
-
I get that, but it does go against a lot of what is preached here at MMM though. I'm not judging anyone's tastes in jewelry, but there is a major theme among most people here that material things are relatively unimportant in the larger picture, outside of utility and comfort. Especially when those material things set you back financially meaning delaying FI date or forsaking freedom to do/buy something else. I won't protest if that $1000 or $10000 truly provides an amount of sheer happiness and joy that cannot be acquired in any other way. But I think that many or most people here would argue that other things (not necessarily costing money at all) can provide that happiness or contentment. And I also think that not spending that amount on a ring does not mean that one would not forsake that kind of money or 10x the amount or the corresponding work hours for the SO. Just not on a ring.
You can't think about engagement rings in a social vacuum. There are stereotypes and norms and expectations. If the fiancé is not a mustacian in spirit, it's going to be pretty damn hard for her to get that sheer happiness and joy from something that's not shiny and pretty and pictured in her mind for 2 or more decades. There are strong social forces at work. In my case, there were strong family forces at work. I didn't even want a diamond (I did, however, want a beautiful gemstone ring), but got a lot of family pressure for it in order to make the engagement legitimate in their minds. My fiancé (at the time, now my husband) hemming and hawing about whether to get a diamond (he suggested moissanite) translated to me (subconsciously) as him hemming and hawing about getting married. Yes, the latter does not require the former, but there was a lot of pressure on me; and I think that there is a lot of similar pressure on most women. If there is a time for spending money that unnecessarily delays FI, I think you can do a lot worse than spending it on a piece of jewelry that your fiancé will love and wear every single day of the rest of her life.
-
love and wear every single day of the rest of her life.
Perhaps.
Or perhaps not: http://rowdykittens.com/2010/11/diamonds-and-debt/
-
love and wear every single day of the rest of her life.
Perhaps.
Or perhaps not: http://rowdykittens.com/2010/11/diamonds-and-debt/
Well, if the OP can take the advice in that article to heart, and not buy the ring with debt, then that's one way to take out one possible regret factor. I do have some regret in asking for a diamond because, deep down, I didn't want a diamond, and didn't see the outside forces for what they were. But that regret is not nearly enough to make me take off my rings. When I look at them, I see the occasions where my spouse put my engagement and wedding rings on my finger. I don't dwell on the regrets, I see the positive. Some people can look at a lot of things and have so much regret that they don't want to look at it any more. I choose to look at the positive in general, and I plan to wear them forever.
-
Well, first of all, a diamond looks different (different light dispersion) than a fakey (cz, moissy, etc.)... A diamond is also much harder than other material, including other gem stones, so it's wearable every day.
"Fakey"? That word seems to suggest that you are buying into the "diamonds are the only proper engagement-ring stone" BS. FYI, if you like white (clear, like diamonds) stones, moissanite has a slightly HIGHER refractive index than diamonds--meaning it's even more sparkly, albeit just by a little bit--and it's also the second-hardest gemstone on earth, slightly harder than rubies/sapphires*, which millions of women wear every day. Here's a link:
http://www.moissanite.com/educate/faqs/#.
* Rubies and sapphires are actually the same stone (namely, corundum) in different colors. Sapphires come in every color of the rainbow (including white), and red is one of them. There are a zillion links on that but here are a couple:
http://blog.igem.com/2010/rubies-and-sapphires-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/
http://www.callagold.com/jewelry-education/did-you-know-rubies-and-sapphires-are-the-same-stone/
I use 'fakey' to refer to the stone itself. Some would argue that wearing a clear stone that *looks* like a diamond is trying to make people *think* you are wearing a real diamond, which is faking them out, therefore it's a 'fakey' stone, aka a simulant--simulating a diamond. If you wear a CZ or moissy, you likely don't walk around announcing "My ring isn't a diamond, it's a moissanite!" unless someone specifically asks, because that would be weird.
It's not about refractive index, either, it's about light dispersion, and some people are color sensitive to the tones that moissy gives off (can look greenish--I am not color sensitive but others are--someone linked a comparison above that is good). It's pretty impossible for anyone (even a jeweler) to determine CZ or moissy vs. diamond without special tools.
I NEVER said that diamonds are the only proper engagement ring stone, don't know where you got that idea. I greatly appreciate gemstones and I know that diamond engagement rings are a newer idea marketed by DeBeers. I have a spinel ring that I love, and it's rare to find anyone who knows what a spinel is. They just think it's a purple sapphire or something. Doesn't matter to me if they know or care, I just know that I enjoy it.
And I know that sapphires and rubies are both corundum--I have this screen name for a reason. :) I looked at white sapphires as an option for jewelry, but it is harder to find a well cut sapphire vs. a diamond and they are still quite expensive. Some gemstones actually cost more than diamonds because of rarity.
I get that, but it does go against a lot of what is preached here at MMM though. . .but there is a major theme among most people here that material things are relatively unimportant in the larger picture. . .But I think that many or most people here would argue that other things (not necessarily costing money at all) can provide that happiness or contentment.
I am not very mustachian when it comes to jewelry and never claimed to be. I choose where to spend my 'fun' money, and I choose jewelry over other things. And MMM himself owns many 'extras' that some would deem unnecessary (musical instruments, high quality sound system, in-home movie theatre, etc.) but he mentions that he often buys awesome things second-hand for much less than retail, and that's how I mostly buy jewelry. And we still save more than 50% of our income. :)
-
Having done this in the last few years, palladium over platinum saved us a lot of money. Pissed off the jeweler royally too (smaller markup and he said palladium is a pain in the ass to work with). We also used a second hand diamond, the appraised value for insurance was like 10x what we ended up paying for it :).
-
Okay, I'll bite: what is the difference between a $1,200 diamond ring and a $50 sterling silver ring, aside from cost? Does it make you feel like your marriage is more legitimate somehow when you wear it? What kind of "kick" does a person get out of giving someone it?
No offense intended, I'm honestly mystified and hope one of you can explain.
There's no difference as long as the couple involved share a perspective. I consider jewellery purchases as a luxury purchase and budget accordingly. That said, diamonds have interesting optical properties that my husband (an engineer) and I enjoy. So we bought a stone we could both enjoy. I'm sure many people think it's fake, because it's a little larger than "normal" around here. Doesn't matter to me, because it's not a status symbol or an external sign of how much my husband loves me. It's just something I love very much and that my husband valued enough to budget for too.
The broader crux of my comment to the OP though was to do some research and pick a ring option that suits your taste and budget with the help of some informed consumer experts (not salespeople).
-
We just bought rings today. They are identical and will serve as our engagement rings for two days until we get married after which they are our wedding bands. Got them from a reputable jeweler in San Francisco. They cost a fraction of one days wages, after tax. Our only other wedding expenses are the county fees.
-
Snackdog, that sounds great!
Can I ask what they look like?
-
What about an heirloom ring? Sometimes elderly family members gift things like that, totally situation-driven but jump on it ASAP if it's at all a possibility. My wife's wedding ring has been in my family for at least a century. She was ecstatic with it, though I was a little unsure at first that she would like it. Now she gets compliments on it all the time. I won't tell how much it cost us because it's absurd, as in absurdly little, but we had the setting professionally cleaned and a new band put on it.
-
Okay, I'll bite: what is the difference between a $1,200 diamond ring and a $50 sterling silver ring, aside from cost? Does it make you feel like your marriage is more legitimate somehow when you wear it? What kind of "kick" does a person get out of giving someone it?
No offense intended, I'm honestly mystified and hope one of you can explain.
The VAST majority of people cannot tell the difference. If you and/or your beloved are diamond connoisseurs then by all means buy the best one you can afford. But the fact remains that MOST couple pick diamonds because everyone else does. Sometimes that's because they want to follow "tradition", often they just don't realize there are other options. I know at age 20, I didn't know I had other choices. Etsy didn't exist 10 years ago, but if I were getting married today that is where I would get my ring. Choosing something made by a hobby artist (or something we designed ourselves) would be much more meaningful and provide a better conversation starter for the many decades we plan to be married.
At a minimum, she should be aware of the controversy surrounding the diamond industry (if she is not already) so that she can make an informed decision. I had no idea about that issue at the time, and if I had known, I would have insisted on something else. I would rather not be reminded of it every time I look at my finger.
-
When we were dating, I was working in the bridal industry, so I had some social pressures to deal with. I wanted a flawless 1 carat round diamond, in a 14kt gold setting, preferably w/some baguettes surrounding the main stone.
We shopped around, and the prospect of having $7 - $10K wrapped around my finger did not sit well with me. We were fresh out of college, and had tiny incomes too, so I knew this would be a stretch for my future hubby, even though he really wanted to give me what I wanted.
One day we went shopping for the setting, and he picked one out that I really liked. I think he paid about $275 for it. I later presented him w/a 1 carat round flawless CZ, and told him to put the two together whenever he was ready. The jeweler was less than pleased, but I love the ring!
Hubby promised to swap the stone out for a real one at a later date, and wanted to get a bigger one too. I told him that would ruin the memory of our engagement, I want to keep the ring intact, as presented on that special day. I don't wear it very much these days - the setting is raised and it sometimes gets caught on things, but it still looks as lovely and sparkly as it did when he first gave it to me, and I could care less if anyone knows it's real or fake. 12 years into the marriage, that's real.
As for finances, he had way more debt than I did, but once we were married, it all became our debt. It's long gone now, and we still do everything jointly. Larger purchases are discussed beforehand, communication lines are open, finances is one thing we rarely argue about.
-
My husband purchased a diamond ring for me for our engagement. I toyed with the idea of going with a fake but in the end we purchased a diamond in a nice band and a matching engagement ring. In hindsight, even though I really love the ring, it was a mistake.
Especially after getting a better understanding of how the diamond market is manipulated (mostly by DeBeers in the past) to retain their super high prices. I hate falling prey to marketing and manipulation, and typically I don't, but in this case I did.
Before anyone thinks about buying a diamond in the future I think it is worth getting a full understanding of how the price of diamonds are kept artificially inflated and how much marketing was performed to get folks to purchase diamonds for engagement rings in the first place.
My SIL had a handmade ring made by a jeweler friend which I thought was a lovely idea. Also a white sapphire can be a nice alternative for a diamond.
Some interesting articles:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ira-weissman/7-reasons-why-you-shouldn_b_1720870.html
http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/45768546804/diamonds-are-bullshit
-
One more thing - does she wear rings a lot? If she does, she will enjoy wearing her rings. If not, she will probably end up putting them in a drawer. I don't wear rings much, and my job is really bad for rings, so within a year I ended up only wearing my wedding ring. My fingers swelled when I was pregnant, I took off the wedding ring, and it stayed off. I was married, I didn't need the ring. My sister-in-law lost her really expensive engagement ring when she took if off to wash her hands so soap wouldn't get into all the little crevices. I think fancy engagement rings are more trouble than they are worth. Actually, given the difficulty keeping them clean if you do messy work, much as I love my knotwork ring, looking back a simple gold band would have been better.
-
For Cerberusss and the previous girlfriend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLugEHP3HaU
oldie but relevant ;-)
-
When I was engaged a couple of years ago social pressure did its best to force me into the "you should spend two to three months salaries on an engagement ring" corner. From the very beginning I thought that was some major BS and I managed to escape the debt spiral before getting sucked into it. Fortunately, my then-girlfriend-now-wife is not the all-your-jewelery-are-belong-to-us type and had no expectations regarding the ring whatsoever. Also, I didn't want to get her something she'd only wear for a couple of months until the wedding (we got engaged in December and married in May) but also afterwards, and huge diamonds more often than not end up in your jewelery box at home because they're too big, chunky, and heavy for everyday use. I ended up buying a nice looking white gold ring for somewhere around US $400, plus another $30 for a silver ring for me. When shopping for wedding rings we both decided that we wanted white gold instead of yellow gold, since we both don't like it, and bought a matching pair of low-key but good looking rings for somewhere around US $650.
Regarding the debt issue: I'm with Frankies Girl on this one. When you decide to get married and start a life together it's sorta stupid to keep your finances separated. However, I keep myself asking randomly if I'm wrong with things like this because almost all of our friends keep their finances separatedt, and I could never understand why. Maybe it's because for some people money is more important than for others but for us it was always like meh. We'd decided to merge our finances, both income and debt, when we moved in together which happened to be about a year before we got married, and then started paying off our joined debt as a team. We started somewhere around 17k € after I graduated and started working (5k my student loan, 10k her student loan, 2k credit card) and had that paid off within less than two years.
-
For Cerberusss and the previous girlfriend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLugEHP3HaU
So true :-)
-
I could have had a ring made for my wife out of my mom's wedding ring, but when I asked my wife what she wanted for a ring, she said "wood". I was actually a bit insulted when she said that (because I didn't understand at the time), but I went to work and made her a wood ring. Actually I made her about 20 because I had never done that before and kept failing.
Eventually I figured out how to do it, and I made her a mahogany wrapped wood ring and she loved it. So the ring cost maybe pennies to make, but it took about 40 hours.
My ring is a $6 steel ring we got on our honeymoon while waiting for the ferry at Tsawwassen.
My wife is amazing though and not very many women would be down with this.
The thing I love about this all is, the ring is only a symbol of the marriage. It's something that is very special to each of us, however it doesn't matter what the ring costs. We spent very little on my ring because 1) We think it would be stupid to go into debt to buy a ring which in our opinion is a useless thing and 2) we have a tendency to lose things. How terrible would it be to lose a $7000 ring? Or to have it stollen?
Sorry for the mishmash of thoughts, but I hope that helps.
-
I could have had a ring made for my wife out of my mom's wedding ring, but when I asked my wife what she wanted for a ring, she said "wood". I was actually a bit insulted when she said that (because I didn't understand at the time), but I went to work and made her a wood ring. Actually I made her about 20 because I had never done that before and kept failing.
Eventually I figured out how to do it, and I made her a mahogany wrapped wood ring and she loved it. So the ring cost maybe pennies to make, but it took about 40 hours.
Just wanted to say I think this is super badass. That's one hell of a way to show commitment.
-
Just wanted to say I think this is super badass. That's one hell of a way to show commitment.
Thanks. People usually think I'm a cheapass.
-
I could have had a ring made for my wife out of my mom's wedding ring, but when I asked my wife what she wanted for a ring, she said "wood". I was actually a bit insulted when she said that (because I didn't understand at the time), but I went to work and made her a wood ring. Actually I made her about 20 because I had never done that before and kept failing.
Eventually I figured out how to do it, and I made her a mahogany wrapped wood ring and she loved it. So the ring cost maybe pennies to make, but it took about 40 hours.
My ring is a $6 steel ring we got on our honeymoon while waiting for the ferry at Tsawwassen.
My wife is amazing though and not very many women would be down with this.
The thing I love about this all is, the ring is only a symbol of the marriage. It's something that is very special to each of us, however it doesn't matter what the ring costs. We spent very little on my ring because 1) We think it would be stupid to go into debt to buy a ring which in our opinion is a useless thing and 2) we have a tendency to lose things. How terrible would it be to lose a $7000 ring? Or to have it stollen?
Sorry for the mishmash of thoughts, but I hope that helps.
Awesome!
We almost went the bentwood route, but my better half decided shiny metal was preferable. So for wedding bands we ended up hammering out some nickels. The fact that we did it together is what throws more people than the DIY angle. (If they even believe us! Whenever I say I'm going to make something, the response is always a patronizing "oh, sure, sure.") Apparently metalwork is man's work, and couples aren't supposed to be able to tolerate each-other in the shop. (I worry for my friends marriages, after hearing that!)
-
Just wanted to say I think this is super badass. That's one hell of a way to show commitment.
Thanks. People usually think I'm a cheapass.
REALLY?!?! Cheap? You spent hours and hours of your time perfecting a ring that your intended specifically requested, that is completely unique, and that signifies an amazing commitment to each other, and people call you CHEAP? I agree with Russ: super badass.
-
I spent $1500 on a 1/2 carat princess cut diamond solitaire in 14K white gold for my wife when we got engaged. She thinks it's the most beautiful thing ever and she doesn't care that it isn't something gigantic to show off to her friends. It's simple and elegant and not ostentatious. We have similar frugal tastes.
-
Snackdog, that sounds great!
Can I ask what they look like?
They are classic 14K white gold bands which will never go out of style (unlike all the cool tungsten and other designer rings we liked). Since they were affordable we don't have to worry so much about losing them or getting mugged (pretty frequent occurrence where we live).
-
Firstly, checkout www.bluenile.com, you get such a better deal for it. Diamonds are a commodity, the only reason high end retailers can charge so much is because of their brand names...which is a total waste. My fiance spent about 5k on my ring, which is about one month salary for him. Neither of us have any debts and we both have significant savings, so from a financial perspective, I think the amount was fine. I did tell him though that I didn't need anything expensive, but I think he liked to splurge on it. And it does look amazing btw. However, if you have debt and not much savings, then I think you both should have an honest discussion about what other things you could spend that money on.
-
Diamonds are a complete waste of money. Debeers controls the market and inflates prices. Diamond is a very hard mineral, but it is very common and uninteresting. There is little point in owning one, especially at ridiculous prices. If you are determined to have a stone on your finger, you are much better off with a ruby, emerald, topaz, sapphire, etc. These are best purchased raw, from reputable sources, close to where they are mined.
-
The thing I love about this all is, the ring is only a symbol of the marriage. It's something that is very special to each of us, however it doesn't matter what the ring costs. We spent very little on my ring because 1) We think it would be stupid to go into debt to buy a ring which in our opinion is a useless thing and 2) we have a tendency to lose things. How terrible would it be to lose a $7000 ring? Or to have it stollen?
Honestly, I would be heartbroken to lose a ring that my husband made by hand -- whether it cost $5k or $0.05. But, the ring being wood does make it less likely to be stolen!
-
The thing I love about this all is, the ring is only a symbol of the marriage. It's something that is very special to each of us, however it doesn't matter what the ring costs. We spent very little on my ring because 1) We think it would be stupid to go into debt to buy a ring which in our opinion is a useless thing and 2) we have a tendency to lose things. How terrible would it be to lose a $7000 ring? Or to have it stollen?
Honestly, I would be heartbroken to lose a ring that my husband made by hand -- whether it cost $5k or $0.05. But, the ring being wood does make it less likely to be stolen!
Yeah, but he/you can always make another.
-
Even "get the best cut" isn't universally good advice.
the cut on my diamonds is shit, by most standards. With the naked eye, you can see that the facets are uneven and crooked. That's because they were cut in approximately 1910. I have to rose cut diamonds and a miner's cut. (Basically, that means "old diamonds, cut by hand in ways different than those currently favored). I also have less than half a caret, I believe, which includes those 3 main stones, plus 16 (I just had to count) tiny diamonds set in the filigree. I adore my ring. It cost well less than half a month of my husband's salary. It's unique and spectacular, and as a bonus, since it was an estate piece, I didn't have to worry about my money supporting the nastiness that is the diamond trade and the diamond companies. I wanted something unusual, something second hand, and something with a very low profile (how far it stuck out off my finger) so I wasn't bumping it on things, catching it when I put my hand in my pocket, etc. And my ring is all those things, perfectly. So I don't care that the cut is shit and that the stones are probably not great quality. It's the perfect ring for me and it was a price we both thought was reasonable.
So women want a giant diamond and don't care much about cut, clarity, or quality. Not my thing, but it that's what someone wants, then spending money on making sure it is flawless and perfectly cut is a waste. Some women want a perfect diamond, even it it's a bit smaller. Some want something unique and don't care about the diamonds, and some don't want or even like diamonds.
Of course everyone should set reasonable budget limits, but beyond that, trying to supply some universal law about what is most important is going to fail because it is such an individual thing. Find out what she likes and values most, and then make sure you get a good price for whatever that is.
-
Re: price of the engagement ring; that depends on what makes your fiance happy ;) My wife and I compromised on a pretty simple ring design with a smaller diamond. She was happy to have a ring she liked and I was happy not to put us into debt as part of an antiquated system (for good or bad) of me making a show of her value to me by me giving money to a third party (how does that make sense) for an over-priced rock. I think the ring was around $500 for mounting a 3/4 ct CZ (one of our compromises) in the "white" gold (silver with a little gold in it, really).
The ring on her hand is going to be tied up money that you'll never be able to recoup and won't be able to go towards things like a house, investments/retirement, paying off debt you may have, or saving for an emergency. At one point, she lost it in our apartment and thought that she had lost it in the doctor's office - felt like a good chunk of money out the window. We found it when we were packing to move to our house several months later. Obviously I am not too romantic about all this stuff. My wedding band is a simple silver ring I picked from an eBay seller for $20. My wife, especially at the time, but less so now, had a much more romantic view on both the ring itself and the amount of money I was willing to spend on it as a show of how much I love her. And in case you're wondering, no, she doesn't wear the ring because engagement rings are impractical things.
-
My wife, especially at the time, but less so now, had a much more romantic view on both the ring itself and the amount of money I was willing to spend on it as a show of how much I love her.
That's the tricky part. You can't expect possible partners that you meet to be perfect mustachians (unless you are very patient). I really object to the attitude when a girl "demands" a ring but at the same time I can't necessarily label it a character flaw, there might be nothing wrong with her at all except lack of experience and education in finance (and lack of philosophical perspective on finances/happiness/spending). People are imperfect. And we mustachians are already very aware of spotting consumerist traits among possible partners, so if a partner is already considered acceptable, a wish for a ring will probably not be the one thing that ends the relationship. (There's the story about my friend who probably should have done just that... but that's easy to say looking back, wasn't too easy to see the big picture at the time)
-
I love all of the thoughtful posts here! My bf and I are going a similar thing... Except I want $0 rings and he wants $3000+.
For him, he doesn't want to appear to be cheap, and he also enjoys the finer things in life. I think, that in terms of spending money on something, you're going to wear it every day - so why not? People spend $200 on a shirt, which I think is dumb. If you buy lovely wedding rings, they can be heirlooms for your grandchildren :) Just make sure to find out what she likes! Good luck :) :)
-
Ugh. Usually I try to keep my mouth shut about engagement rings, but since this post is on this particular forum, I feel okay saying that your fiance's mentality about engagement rings (that she deserves/is entitled to/will not forego having something useless but shiny just because she grew up being told that that was what she should aspire to) is EXACTLY the mentality that lands people with huge mortgages and credit card bills and tons of crap that they don't need. And therefore exactly the kind of thing that this site is about opting out of.
It's just such a hypocritical mentality - engagement rings are supposed to be a symbol of commitment, and most women would never say outright that the cash outlay is more important than the symbolism of it...but most clearly think that it is, because they get upset when the symbol of their beloved's commitment isn't big and shiny enough. Sorry, but that's BS, ladies.
And for the record, I am a woman...of typical marriage age...and if my partner ever tried to give me an engagement ring, I would be offended. My commitment is not for sale.
-
Firstly, checkout www.bluenile.com, you get such a better deal for it. Diamonds are a commodity, the only reason high end retailers can charge so much is because of their brand names...which is a total waste. My fiance spent about 5k on my ring, which is about one month salary for him. Neither of us have any debts and we both have significant savings, so from a financial perspective, I think the amount was fine. I did tell him though that I didn't need anything expensive, but I think he liked to splurge on it. And it does look amazing btw. However, if you have debt and not much savings, then I think you both should have an honest discussion about what other things you could spend that money on.
I would avoid Blue Nile. Check out vendors I previously mentioned or visit Pricescope forum for recommendations for the style you prefer.
-
Even "get the best cut" isn't universally good advice.
the cut on my diamonds is shit, by most standards. With the naked eye, you can see that the facets are uneven and crooked. That's because they were cut in approximately 1910. I have to rose cut diamonds and a miner's cut. (Basically, that means "old diamonds, cut by hand in ways different than those currently favored). I also have less than half a caret, I believe, which includes those 3 main stones, plus 16 (I just had to count) tiny diamonds set in the filigree. I adore my ring. It cost well less than half a month of my husband's salary. It's unique and spectacular, and as a bonus, since it was an estate piece, I didn't have to worry about my money supporting the nastiness that is the diamond trade and the diamond companies. I wanted something unusual, something second hand, and something with a very low profile (how far it stuck out off my finger) so I wasn't bumping it on things, catching it when I put my hand in my pocket, etc. And my ring is all those things, perfectly. So I don't care that the cut is shit and that the stones are probably not great quality. It's the perfect ring for me and it was a price we both thought was reasonable.
So women want a giant diamond and don't care much about cut, clarity, or quality. Not my thing, but it that's what someone wants, then spending money on making sure it is flawless and perfectly cut is a waste. Some women want a perfect diamond, even it it's a bit smaller. Some want something unique and don't care about the diamonds, and some don't want or even like diamonds.
Of course everyone should set reasonable budget limits, but beyond that, trying to supply some universal law about what is most important is going to fail because it is such an individual thing. Find out what she likes and values most, and then make sure you get a good price for whatever that is.
Cut is king, regardless of type. I have some antiques myself (Old European and transitionals) and they are so well cut, they are even prettier/sparklier than my modern cuts. My main advice still stands: do your research so you don't get ripped off. Buy online and save the costs of a jewellery store's overhead.
-
Why is cut king though? Because *you* think it's most important?
If someone wants a huge stone and doesn't care about the cut, why is that a less valid (or less whatever-else) approach than "buy the best cut you can afford"? As long as they aren't over-paying for the diamond they are getting, why is your emphasis on cut more worthy than their emphasis on size, or someone else's emphasis on clarity or color?
My crappy diamonds are definitely more sparkly in low light than modern-cut diamonds. It's not because they are well cut, but I think that the style and shape of the cuts is more conducive to that kind of light. Perhaps because back then, that's the kind of light they had--candles vs. overhead fluorescents!
-
Why is cut king though? Because *you* think it's most important?
Because a well cut stone in a lower color/clarity will look better than a poorly cut stone in a high color/clarity. Well cut stones also get you the correct 'spread' for the carat weight, meaning the face up size/diameter of the top of the stone will be better than a deeply cut stone (which will face up smaller) or avoid the sometimes ugly effects of a shallow cut stone. You may be able to get a stone just shy of a price jump weight (like a .45 vs. a .5 carat, or a .9 vs. a 1.0) and it will face up very similarly to the price jump weight, and might even look bigger than someone else's deep/steep cut stone of a heavier weight.
I still suggest that the buyer of any type of jewelry do their own research and figure out their priorities when spending their pennies, but a well cut stone will generally perform better than a less well cut stone. I'd rather have a smaller, well cut diamond than a larger, poorly cut stone. I also believe the potential re-sale of a well cut stone is higher than that of a less well cut stone. People can literally see the difference in brightness and scintillation. Is that everyone's priority when buying a diamond? Probably not, but I would still suggest comparing two stones side by side to see the difference.
My OECs/transitionals do look amazing in lower light situations, which I just love! Your stones are likely quite well cut. It sounds like your stones are just lovely--would love to see photos!
-
I'd say follow her lead on this one. Go hunting for them online, in jewelry stores, antique stores, anywhere and everywhere you might find a unique, handmade, used, antique, or whatever ring that she LOVES and is happy with the price. Since she is already of the mindset, "I don't want you to spend an exorbitant amount" - then clearly the status of spending $XX on it is not important to her. What matter is that she loves it and will want to wear it every day! Don't push her to find a non-diamond ring if a diamond is what she wants.