Author Topic: End of year Internship Discussion Feedback  (Read 2090 times)

HydroJim

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End of year Internship Discussion Feedback
« on: October 11, 2016, 09:19:11 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 12:39:59 PM by HydroJim »

ooeei

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Re: End of year Internship Discussion Feedback
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2016, 09:56:33 AM »
I would vote to print that sheet out and bring it with you for yourself, but not email it or give him a copy.  The reason is, you don't know how he's going to interpret those things before you have a chance to explain them, and he may bring up something that makes you want to change your strategy midway through the talk. 

You seem to have the whole conversation outlined, and it may go differently than you planned.  Notice how many question marks there are, and how you go into depth assuming answers to questions that may not be what you think.

Don't worry about "blindsiding" him, if he needs to get more info and get back to you, that's not a problem.  I'm sure he's adequately skilled to perform a year end review without you holding his hand.  In addition, I wouldn't send my boss a meeting agenda unless I called the meeting, or he asked for me to create one.  I definitely wouldn't create an agenda for a year end review on myself, or give anyone an outline of how I thought a negotiation would go.

Your preparedness is admirable, but don't give him all of your thoughts before the meeting has even started.  He may be thinking he has to negotiate hard to keep you working there, and if you send him this you're telling him that's already your plan.  Maybe they were going to offer you $27/hour? Who knows.  You don't gain anything by giving this to him ahead of time.


edit:  One thing I would recommend bringing a copy of for him, is an outline of your accomplishments during your internship.  Anything you can put $ figures on, or quantify is great.  List out any projects you worked on, and what you did for them.  Typically on employee review forms they have a place for employee comments, you can copy/paste this list into that for the record.  List it as "employee accomplishments."  He may be presenting you to higher management who don't know you, so having a list of stuff you've done can help him "sell" you to them as a good candidate compared to someone else who half assed the review.  It'll also come in handy if he leaves the company for some reason before you start.  This will also show him you're prepared and on top of your shit, which is I think what you were trying to get across with the agenda above.  All of the benefit, none of the risk.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 10:05:41 AM by ooeei »

boarder42

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Re: End of year Internship Discussion Feedback
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2016, 11:50:54 AM »
i agree i would not send that. 

i would also reconsider getting a masters degree.  i've been working as a EE for 7 years now and master's degrees dont really help you all that much unless there is some specific area more education would help your specific job that cant be learned on the job.  I used to consider pursuing and MBA but even that can be learned on the job if you plan to stay at the same company. 

nobody123

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Re: End of year Internship Discussion Feedback
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2016, 12:44:26 PM »
You are a disposable intern, remember that.   Do not send him this.  As was mentioned, it's his meeting, you don't get to decide what you are going to discuss.  Also, he isn't your career counselor, he is your boss.  It looks like you want to talk about things 2+ years out and he's trying to fill out a boilerplate form for HR for a summer intern.

It's great that you've thought through this stuff, but your goal right now is to have your internship renewed for the summer.  Since you've been told you will be contacted in January by HR, you want to make sure your boss wants you back.  Let your boss give you feedback for what you're doing, ask if there is any hesitation as far as bringing you back, and ask what you should be working on to make yourself as valuable as possible for a full-time position with the company.

Assume he will ask what team / city you'd like to be in next summer, so be ready to tell him that you can't wait to get back on his team in whatever city he is in, because you feel as though your year of experience will make you even more productive next summer.  Of course, if the company thinks you'd be a better fit in another area, you would be happy to entertain that as well.  If you come back to his team, that's one less intern he has to recruit.  If you say you want to explore other areas, he has to explain to his boss why an intern doesn't want to work for him anymore.  If you're working part time for him, it's a slam dunk, so don't screw it up.

And for heaven's sake, even if he asks about pursuing an advanced degree upon graduation, don't bring up the fact that you want them to make exceptions to their corporate policies once you get hired in.  You'll just sound like an entitled jerk and will seriously jeopardize your employment prospects.


ysette9

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Re: End of year Internship Discussion Feedback
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2016, 04:11:45 PM »
I'd be happy to talk to you about this further via PM if you are interested. I too work for a large aerospace/defense firm and did two summer internships before coming on full-time. I got my B.S. in chemical engineering and did my master's part-time while working full time, getting the company to pay for it. So: I think I have a lot of relevant experience I can share. If you happen to share the specific company you work for with me via PM, if we happen to work for the same one then that could be that much more insightful.

I'll speak for my company but I suspect other aerospace/defense companies are similar. Our industry is facing something of a demographic crisis in that a large portion of the workforce is retirement eligible and walking out the door. My company has had a strong focus on interns and new college grads going back at least since I joined 11 years ago. Simply put, they need to fill the gap and since most of our work is government contracts, we can't hire all those bright international students studying engineering. This all adds up to you being (likely) in a good position. That said, don't blow it by being overly-confident.

In my experience my compensation as an intern was a black box where something happened and they spat out a number. Since each summer it was much more than I had made in previous jobs, I was perfectly happy. As a manager we don't include casual employees in the performance review/merit increase process. Interns are provided feedback at the end of the summer but don't participate in the formal system that normal employees do. If they converted you to a part-time/co-op employee and are no longer considered an intern, that might be different. My point here is that your manager may not have the ability to offer you more money. As a manager, my hands are pretty much tied on what my people make, with exceptions being influence on the initial salary offer and yearly merit increases tied to performance. You may be able to get more, but frankly I think your real prize is a full time job offer. You aren't going to take home significantly more money over the new few months before graduating and starting full time. Full time is when you have a more solid position to negotiate that initial salary offer. Being in the regular performance management system will also allow you the path to get higher raises based on kicking butt at your job.

As for the advanced degree, I recommend you go for it. When I started my career out I noticed all of the announcements of who was being selected for director/VP/program manager positions. Almost all of those people had masters degrees in engineering. If you have fund it, I suggest going ahead right away even though you may not be eligible immediately for tuition assistance. Working and going to school at the same time sucks and it's better to get it out of the way as quickly as possible. It also shows you have the drive and ambition to learn and advance.

I also recommend checking with HR on your tenure with the company. Mine allowed me to fill out a form and bridge my service from my summers. This meant that my effective hire date was 6 months earlier than my true full-time hire date. This got my vested in my pension and 401(k) quite a bit earlier than I was expecting.

HydroJim

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Re: End of year Internship Discussion Feedback
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2016, 09:40:26 AM »
Thank you all for your input.

To clarify, the discussion isn't exactly HIS meeting. As ysette9 alluded to, I'm not part of the typical performance review process. I was part of the summer intern review process but when I stayed on part-time, things changed up a little bit. I have a mandatory meeting to discuss my remote part-time arrangement and my recruiter told me I should also discuss my placement for next year at that time so they know which group I'll be working with when it comes time to place me for the next summer.

Based on everyone's input, I'll avoid talking about getting a raise until I see what i get in my January offer letter.

I also recommend checking with HR on your tenure with the company. Mine allowed me to fill out a form and bridge my service from my summers. This meant that my effective hire date was 6 months earlier than my true full-time hire date. This got my vested in my pension and 401(k) quite a bit earlier than I was expecting.

My company is pretty cool so assuming I stay on and get hired full time, my tenure will be based off of my May, 2016 start date. By the time I graduate, that could be two whole years towards the 401k matching vesting and other things. It's a pretty good deal.


ooeei

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Re: End of year Internship Discussion Feedback
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2016, 09:53:22 AM »
Thank you all for your input.

To clarify, the discussion isn't exactly HIS meeting. As ysette9 alluded to, I'm not part of the typical performance review process. I was part of the summer intern review process but when I stayed on part-time, things changed up a little bit. I have a mandatory meeting to discuss my remote part-time arrangement and my recruiter told me I should also discuss my placement for next year at that time so they know which group I'll be working with when it comes time to place me for the next summer.

Based on everyone's input, I'll avoid talking about getting a raise until I see what i get in my January offer letter.

I also recommend checking with HR on your tenure with the company. Mine allowed me to fill out a form and bridge my service from my summers. This meant that my effective hire date was 6 months earlier than my true full-time hire date. This got my vested in my pension and 401(k) quite a bit earlier than I was expecting.

My company is pretty cool so assuming I stay on and get hired full time, my tenure will be based off of my May, 2016 start date. By the time I graduate, that could be two whole years towards the 401k matching vesting and other things. It's a pretty good deal.

In any case, I think asking those questions verbally is better than sending him an outline.  Give yourself some flexibility so you can adjust in real time.

nobody123

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Re: End of year Internship Discussion Feedback
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2016, 10:09:34 AM »
...

To clarify, the discussion isn't exactly HIS meeting. ... I have a mandatory meeting to discuss my remote part-time arrangement and my recruiter told me I should also discuss my placement for next year at that time so they know which group I'll be working with when it comes time to place me for the next summer.
...

Who called the meeting?  If it wasn't you, you don't get to propose the agenda.  End of story.  Nobody is saying that it can't be a two-way conversation and you can't bring up topics that you feel are necessary; we're saying that providing an unsolicited agenda for a meeting you didn't call is unprofessional.

BTW, the only reason any meeting is "mandatory" it is because HR makes it so.  Any boss worth his / her salt will be giving you frequent feedback and don't need to be prompted by HR to do so.  Assuming you talk to your boss with some regularity, he already knows if he wants you back or not.  Like you were told by the recruiter, they want to figure out if they want you back for next summer.  Stay focused on that and don't waste anyone's time or give them reasons to say no during what is most likely a "check the box" meeting.