Author Topic: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?  (Read 11126 times)

Malcat

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2020, 07:47:41 PM »
What to do about Jeff?

There's nothing to do about Jeff. Whether he has FAS or Autism, or any other medical basis for his behaviour isn't actually anyone's responsibility (or business) but his. He's had 38 years of living the way he is, if he wanted to do something about it, he would have. He's not mentally incompetent, he just might not be neurotypical or may have a mental illness. That's his business to manage as he sees fit.

And yes, it is EXTREMELY common for folks to be walking around their entire lives undiagnosed with all sorts of things. I'm not sure I've known many families without one.

Now, as the people who are connected to him, it's their business to decide how they want to interact with him. If they want to try and maintain a connection with him, or if they don't want to stay connected with a volatile person who shows no interest in improving his volatility. They have no say over what he does, only on how they interact with him.

If the people who love him, ie not OP, decide that the most loving thing would be to talk to him about a possible diagnosis and medical support, then that's up to them.

As for OP, the ONLY impact this should have is to possibly improve your sense of compassion towards both Jeff and his family. If an undiagnosed neuro-atypical condition or mental health illness is at play, and it certainly sounds that way, then just try to always remember that the people involved are hurting. So try to make the priority to not add to the existing hurt. That's it. Nothing more than that.

Sibley

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2020, 10:12:00 PM »
I still say you need boundaries. Seriously, all the way around here.

https://www.boundariesbooks.com/  <---- that's the website that will give you the names of the books. And looks like some links. The library may well have the book.

And OP, you are sounding like a bad guy here. My guess is you're frustrated and it's showing, but watch it. Money isn't everything. You could even blow up your marriage if you really say the wrong things - these people are not your family. They're your wife's family.

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2020, 05:58:34 AM »
I still say you need boundaries. Seriously, all the way around here.

https://www.boundariesbooks.com/  <---- that's the website that will give you the names of the books. And looks like some links. The library may well have the book.

And OP, you are sounding like a bad guy here. My guess is you're frustrated and it's showing, but watch it. Money isn't everything. You could even blow up your marriage if you really say the wrong things - these people are not your family. They're your wife's family.

Look this is how I think....... you treat me good I treat you good. I treat you good you treat me good.

I treated mom and her entire family like gold. Mom treated me with disrespect. I see that as someone biting the hand that feeds her.

If that’s the thanks I get for being nice than I’m not obligated to be nice anymore.

It doesn’t matter who’s family it is. It was an attack on me.

Just because it’s her family doesn’t give them the right to disrespect me, or physically hurt me.

Are you suggesting if Jeff picked a physical fight with me I should just roll over and die because he’s not my family?

Disrespect is disrespect.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 07:15:02 AM by firemoney »

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2020, 07:09:58 AM »
So wife and I had a good talk. I asked a bit about her brothers life, etc.

In my wife’s opinion:

Jeff has depression
Jeff is the baby, and only son
Jeff was always spoiled, and coddled, and thus he is arrogant, lazy, and entitled, and “better” than everyone else
Jeff was always told that he and his sister (my wife)
Jeff sees me as a guy telling what to do in HIS cabin, and also the guy trying to steal HIS cabin.
Jeff thinks life at the cabin will carry on as it has in the past.

Also my wife’s opinion:

Mom spoiled, enabled Jeff, and has some dependency on him as well (need to be needed/loved?)
Mom will not screw me over financially.
Even though mom said bad things about me, she doesn’t believe she actually meant them.
Mom is both worried about Jeff either getting banned arbitrarily, or by his own fault (break rules)
Mom feels bad because Jeff was promised the cabin by dad, and she is breaking his promise if she sells outright to us.

My opinion:
I have always been there for my wife, and her entire family. Day or night, thick or thin, no questions asked.
We all negotiated a deal that was fair to all, and reasonable to all.
We were buying a cabin that would be our to do as we please, but with consideration to family usage. I mean if the cabins not being used, why wouldn’t we allow others to enjoy? An empty cabin is sad.
We expected people using the cabin wall respect our rules, and our neighbors.
Jeff and I did talk back in the spring. I told him there would be changes at the cabin. There would be rules and expectations.
I did tell him that he could reach out to me if he felt he needed help, or if he just wanted to talk
**when we broke the news to Jeff that we were buying the entire cabin mom was very upset for him (he looked like he was gonna lose his shit) she actually told him “it’s just a legal thing, nothing will change and you can come out whenever you want”. Boom.  ***
I wanted to address that but wife said “now that dads gone Jeff will not want to come out as much and will eventually stay away”

My concerns with Jeff (not him as a person)
He has impulse control, made poor decisions in the past, has substance abuse issues, and thus I’m worried he will destroy a physical asset that we are responsible for. If mom and dad we’re ok with accepting that risk that is their choice.

It all boils down to blood being thicker than water.  Mom said I will never understand her view because I don’t have biological children and didn’t give birth. I agreed with her but told her that BECAUSE he was her biological son, and gave birth to him she cannot see the problem.

The fact that Jeff is not my son and there is no emotionally connected mother child bond that I can see he has issues.


BikeFanatic

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2020, 07:31:43 AM »
I think you inadvertently stepped into a field of land mines. In my humble opinion you would be so much better off not having this guy involved in your affairs. You should hopefully get your money back, and you can co own another cabin with some friend or a time share arangement. This would have worked out if it were not for the son but Jeff is a huge wild card. You need more Jeff in your life like you need a hole in your head. Step away if you can.

former player

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2020, 07:40:06 AM »
So.  Jeff was promised the cabin by his father.  His father then left the cabin to his widow, not to Jeff.  She can't afford to keep it so she proposes to sell it to you and Jeff's sister.  She knows about the promise to Jeff, knows that it will cause problems to break it and tries in some measure to keep it by keeping a lifetime interest that Jeff can use and when it is clear that won't work out (because she knows Jeff won't/can't keep to your rules) tries to change the arrangement in his favour by keeping ownership of 10% for his benefit.

Just about everyone got something seriously wrong here.  Dad and Mom were wrong to let the cabin get into a state where it collapsed and needed $38k in repairs.  Dad was wrong to promise Jeff the cabin and then not leave it to him.  Mom was wrong to try sell it out from under Jeff knowing about that promise and then try to change the terms of the sale in order to try to keep that promise.  Jeff was wrong to expect to be given, or given use of, a cabin he had no means of keeping and no interest or ability to work on.

Your fault was that you voluntarily walked into this mess, tried to help out while not understanding or ignoring all its ramifications and when they became clear (because Jeff's behaviour at the cabin was unacceptable to you as owner, meaning you put a stop to Mom's cockeyed solution to the problem) stomping right through the middle of the mess and exposing the heart of the problem.

The answer that holds the family together now is that Mom sells the cabin, pays you back from the proceeds and gives or leaves all or some of the rest to Jeff.  But she's going to have to get there on her own, if you want peace in the family (or at least as much of it as you can with Jeff around) neither you nor your wife should have anything to do with the cabin ever again.


Psychstache

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2020, 08:18:30 AM »
From your description, he could be on the autism spectrum, but you would think that he would have been diagnosed at school.  He's only 38, so the capacity would have been there 20 odd years ago.  I mean, if he can't tie a double knot, what other simple things can't he do and why were they overlooked?  Even now, it sounds like he should be assessed, but probably it's not going to happen, unless the mom pushes for it, then maybe.  It's really not your concern right now, but I would be thinking into the future - what happens to him when mom passes?  Is he now your problem?  Something for you and your wife to consider.

I'm 38 and no one in my cohort where I grew up was ever diagnosed with autism. My step brother in retrospect clearly, clearly was autistic, and never once was he tested for anything because his school performance was pretty reasonable. We had one kid who was diagnosed with ADHD, which was the first I had ever heard of it, and he had been diagnosed in England. I myself am dyslexic and they just tossed me into the "slow class" where we spent a lot of time playing with guinea pigs.
So yeah, he could easily have slipped through the cracks at his age.

OP, I don't think that given what you knew that you really did anything necessarily wrong.
People don't really get why people say not to mix money and family until they go through it themselves. It's almost something you have to go through to really understand.

Your bigger issue here, which is very clear, is communication with your spouse. Being on the same page is not the same as having good communication. You may have both been in agreement about a lot of things, but absolutely did not communicate sufficiently about this before going ahead, especially if you put your separate money towards this without really wanting too.

I would focus your energy on the communication with your partner above anything else in this situation, because if you try to recoup your money, things are going to get uglier, and you are going to need more capacity to talk about it than the two of you have right now.

Sorry to be OT, but if you are in the US, here is as relevant facts re ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorders).

1. Modern Autism was first really recognized in the 30s-40s, but only in it's most sever forms (people who were non-verbal and previously classified as Intellectually Disabled).
2. In the 70s, the 'Asperger's' identification as a related condition to Autism came into existence, identifying children with higher IQs and expressive language skills, but still showed deficits in theory of mind, pragmatics, and social skills.
3. The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, IDEA, was reauthorized in 1997 and added Autism as an area of eligibility for special education.
4. mid-200s-now, significant advocacy, training, and research done around AU, bringing more information to educators.

Given this timeline, Jeff's age, and the terrible job that secondary teachers due at identifying disabilities, it is very reasonable that a 38 year old today would not have been identified today even if our internet diagnosing is accurate.

fuzzy math

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2020, 09:52:14 AM »
Lots of comments here about "where is your wife in all this?" It sounds like she grew up in a highly dysfunctional environment, and if she's a low conflict person she may not have had an easy way to speak up either in defense of OP or her family. A lot of people absolutely cannot handle conflict. Trying to force her to "step it up" is likely not going to work, especially if she's had to become a peace maker just to survive.

OP, even if you walk away and lose the $38k, I think the biggest issue here is that Jeff has preyed upon your daughter for money.  How old is she? I would (in no uncertain terms) let him know what will happen to him if he ever approaches her again and that would be the last thing I ever say to him. Please understand that your daughter has been exposed to this dysfunction indirectly by just being in her mom's family, and possibly directly by being exposed to any difficulties your wife might have as a result of her family of origin. Your daughter will need extra support not to become a codependent wallet both for her family and any other creep she might meet out in the world.

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2020, 10:25:13 AM »
So.  Jeff was promised the cabin by his father.  His father then left the cabin to his widow, not to Jeff.  She can't afford to keep it so she proposes to sell it to you and Jeff's sister.  She knows about the promise to Jeff, knows that it will cause problems to break it and tries in some measure to keep it by keeping a lifetime interest that Jeff can use and when it is clear that won't work out (because she knows Jeff won't/can't keep to your rules) tries to change the arrangement in his favour by keeping ownership of 10% for his benefit.

Just about everyone got something seriously wrong here.  Dad and Mom were wrong to let the cabin get into a state where it collapsed and needed $38k in repairs.  Dad was wrong to promise Jeff the cabin and then not leave it to him.  Mom was wrong to try sell it out from under Jeff knowing about that promise and then try to change the terms of the sale in order to try to keep that promise.  Jeff was wrong to expect to be given, or given use of, a cabin he had no means of keeping and no interest or ability to work on.

Your fault was that you voluntarily walked into this mess, tried to help out while not understanding or ignoring all its ramifications and when they became clear (because Jeff's behaviour at the cabin was unacceptable to you as owner, meaning you put a stop to Mom's cockeyed solution to the problem) stomping right through the middle of the mess and exposing the heart of the problem.

The answer that holds the family together now is that Mom sells the cabin, pays you back from the proceeds and gives or leaves all or some of the rest to Jeff.  But she's going to have to get there on her own, if you want peace in the family (or at least as much of it as you can with Jeff around) neither you nor your wife should have anything to do with the cabin ever again.

The disrepair was a combination of financial, and the fact dad was aging and unable to keep up. This was clear as a bell the first day I attended the cabin. Of course being the new boyfriend, I needed some brownie points to impress the new “in laws “. Not to mention a real man doesn’t pound back beers while an Elderly man works his ass off.

Jeff somewhat attached to or took a bit of an interest due to my profession so my wif encouraged maybe I could get him motivated. The cottage lease was up for renewal and conservation required a lot of work. I tried to encourage Jeff by coming at him from a team effort, get him involved “hey man without YOUR help I can’t get this work done”

He’d bring a tool or generator then leave. Work for him to do on,a list was not completed. Hey, it’s,not,my cabin and not my place to,say anything.

The foundation was on the verge of collapse ing and I never got around to it because after 8 years I simply gave up on the cabin, never to attend again. Then dad died and all this happened.

That’s the plan. Get my money back, and walk away.

My daughter figures nana will try hanging on, realize she,can’t afford to keep it,and approach us next year to,sell.

I would like to try and convince her to sell. If,I look,objectively at this, it’s,really in her financial interest to sell. She’d get top dollar, and realistically as she ages she’s going to go to the cabin less and less. Might as well use the money to fix up her house, travel, enabler,her son, lol. Whatever she wants.

So while I’d like her to sell I need her to know I’m going to,have no part of the cabin whatsoever. Not even to visit.

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2020, 10:34:51 AM »
Lots of comments here about "where is your wife in all this?" It sounds like she grew up in a highly dysfunctional environment, and if she's a low conflict person she may not have had an easy way to speak up either in defense of OP or her family. A lot of people absolutely cannot handle conflict. Trying to force her to "step it up" is likely not going to work, especially if she's had to become a peace maker just to survive.

OP, even if you walk away and lose the $38k, I think the biggest issue here is that Jeff has preyed upon your daughter for money.  How old is she? I would (in no uncertain terms) let him know what will happen to him if he ever approaches her again and that would be the last thing I ever say to him. Please understand that your daughter has been exposed to this dysfunction indirectly by just being in her mom's family, and possibly directly by being exposed to any difficulties your wife might have as a result of her family of origin. Your daughter will need extra support not to become a codependent wallet both for her family and any other creep she might meet out in the world.

Daughter is 25. First she went “halfers” on a cell booster for the cabin. She spent the 600 and “Jeff” had to pay her 50 biweekly cause he had no money (he still drank beer, smoked pot, etc).
Then was the 1k loan because he couldn’t pay his truck loan. He paid her 400 over the next few months, and by,cabin season he stopped paying her because no money (he still drank beer, smoked pot). Grampa had to pay her back.

Then he pestered her to give him computer parts that she was going to sell on kijiji. Had a buyer lined up 500 bucks. Learning her lesson twice she finally stood up to him and said no. Then came the guilt trip, “poor me I’m your,uncle aren’t you gonna help your own uncle”

She told him no. She said she’d give a friends and family discount and he could buy the parts for 300 bucks. A noble gesture on her part. He agreed, but,would you believe he didn’t have 300 bucks?? 50 bi,weekly, and yes he still drank beer and smoked pot.

I don’t have to tell him not to ask for money anymore. She’s done.

I,did,tell,her I was disappointed that she kept the truck loan from me. Mom told her not to because I’d hate Jeff even more.

I’ve instructed my daughter to NEVER, not once, not EVER to feel she needs to keep any kind of Secret from me, family related or not, and that she can come to me no matter what the issue, no matter how big or small.

So while I accept he may have slipped through the cracks and really is a spectrum of sorts, I’m leaning towards he’s just a sociopath and a manipulator.


As to,where,is my wife at??

She’s pissed at mom. She doesn’t think,the,cabin is worth my mental health and certainly not abuse from her mom.

And to be sure, I’m not mad because we’re not buying the cabin. I’m not mad that mom may feel pushed around, or pressured into our agreement. I’m pissed that she accused me of actually bullying her and manipulating her.

I even promised her husband I’d “take care of his girls”. Referring to his,wife, daughter, and grand daughter. Her dad was not,a,guy of many words, and it was a brief special moment I had with him. I wrote the encounter on a paper to be placed in the box prior to cremation when my wife and I identified the body for cremation.

My wife brought it up at a family function. On our,Saturday blow out mom said that when I made the promise she said I changed the narrative to included mom after the fact to manipulate her.

That one,rare moment I,shared with a dying man is now ruined.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 10:43:00 AM by firemoney »

debbie does duncan

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2020, 11:22:49 AM »
This dysfunction is a Karpman drama triangle. You have people here....MIL who are emotionally immature and pass it on to their kids....BIL. When you go out of the script they want....you are the bad one. Set hard boundaries . Never let them have a pass again. Keep clear of the toxic behaviour. This link is to my fav tool box. Good luck with the drama.  https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1

Letj

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2020, 02:50:15 PM »
From your description, he could be on the autism spectrum, but you would think that he would have been diagnosed at school.  He's only 38, so the capacity would have been there 20 odd years ago.  I mean, if he can't tie a double knot, what other simple things can't he do and why were they overlooked?  Even now, it sounds like he should be assessed, but probably it's not going to happen, unless the mom pushes for it, then maybe.  It's really not your concern right now, but I would be thinking into the future - what happens to him when mom passes?  Is he now your problem?  Something for you and your wife to consider.
You would be surprised how easily kids can go through school and never get diagnosed. My close relative went through school and diagnosed herself at 20 after seeing a movie with an Aspergers person and realized she had all the traits including the OCD, obsessions, interest in food limited to very few foods, Crohn’s disease and other digestive system problems (70% of people on the spectrum have stomach problems), etc. Some people can easily be dismissed as shy/introverted and can easily mask.

He’s well beyond shy and introverted. One cottage neighbor pegged him for an 8 year old. Neighbors daughter said,12-13.  And all along I thought I was just bad parenting and tons of pot/beer.

Any advice ? Not my problem? I mean if he’s just an asshole there’s really nothing to,be done, but if he is on some spectrum or something how would you go about it?

Does he know there’s something wrong? He’s told me he hates people and wished they’d all Fuck off. Again I though it’s,the booze/pot talkin....

If he is really on the spectrum his emotional maturity would definitely be stunted probably similar to a 12 year old. As for diagnosis, at his age, he has to recognize something is wrong and seek diagnosis. He doesn’t sound like the type of person you can easily convince to seek help. Good luck.

Letj

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2020, 02:59:47 PM »
What to do about Jeff?

There's nothing to do about Jeff. Whether he has FAS or Autism, or any other medical basis for his behaviour isn't actually anyone's responsibility (or business) but his. He's had 38 years of living the way he is, if he wanted to do something about it, he would have. He's not mentally incompetent, he just might not be neurotypical or may have a mental illness. That's his business to manage as he sees fit.

And yes, it is EXTREMELY common for folks to be walking around their entire lives undiagnosed with all sorts of things. I'm not sure I've known many families without one.

Now, as the people who are connected to him, it's their business to decide how they want to interact with him. If they want to try and maintain a connection with him, or if they don't want to stay connected with a volatile person who shows no interest in improving his volatility. They have no say over what he does, only on how they interact with him.

If the people who love him, ie not OP, decide that the most loving thing would be to talk to him about a possible diagnosis and medical support, then that's up to them.

As for OP, the ONLY impact this should have is to possibly improve your sense of compassion towards both Jeff and his family. If an undiagnosed neuro-atypical condition or mental health illness is at play, and it certainly sounds that way, then just try to always remember that the people involved are hurting. So try to make the priority to not add to the existing hurt. That's it. Nothing more than that.

This! This awesome advice pretty much sums it up.

SunnyDays

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2020, 05:27:56 PM »
If
If anyone wants to try for a diagnosis, the best bet is through his physician.  Even without the BIL's cooperation, you, your wife or MIL can call the doctor and voice your concerns.  No one can force him to do anything though, unless he is a danger to himself or others.  Although, getting into fights, verbally abusing his mother and sleeping with a loaded gun (in combination) may get someone's attention, if not the doctor's, then maybe the police?  Maybe your wife can have a private talk with her mom, as MIL has voiced fear of her son previously and raise the topic of getting him assessed in some way.  If you are all in agreement on this, it may carry some weight with whomever you decide to approach.

His alcohol and drug use is another possibly dangerous factor, but not uncommon with psychiatric disorders, where people try to self-medicate, usually against the associated anxiety.  Hating people and always feeling like things are everyone else's fault are common with autism diagnoses too.
Calling the police on someone with a potential mental health diagnosis who self-medicates with illegal drugs and is known to keep a loaded weapon on hand sounds like a good way to get him shot.

I see your point, but on the other hand, knowing this is the situation and no one doing anything about it is also a risk.  How many times have violent incidents occurred where in hindsight people wonder why it was allowed to get that far?  That nobody stepped in soon enough to stop something from occurring.  It’s problematic either way.  I’m not saying to call a swat team, but a non emergency call to police to discuss options might be in order.  It’s a dilemma for sure.  At some time, someone will have to address the issue, so better proactively than reactively.

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2020, 06:07:57 PM »
Hey guys all good responses. Much appreciated even if I reply and seem assholeish.

I know it’s not my problem and I can get my money back and wash my hands of it. But let’s say mom ends up.selling the cabin and even though he said it only means the world,to him if he “gets a slice” and he beats the shit out of her and kills her, then,himself or worse, us.....

“Why didn’t anybody say anything?”
“I’m not surprised, he,was,a,ticking time bomb”

And,according to the whole new “it’s ok to,not be ok”, and “if you see,something, say something” I should be saying something (which I have )

Because honestly if he’s just an asshole that’s one thing but if he,is mentally ill, and doesn’t know he’s mentally ill I can’t really hate the guy if there’s something wrong with him and he just doesn’t know it??


FINate

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2020, 06:26:50 PM »
That’s the plan. Get my money back, and walk away.

You're not getting your 38k back. At least, not without a horrible fight that'll spill over into your marriage. How much would a bitter divorce cost you?

So consider the 38k gone and forgive your in-laws. You shouldn't have to, it sucks and you very understandably feel taken advantage of. But your mistake was inserting your finances into a dysfunctional family dynamic. Don't let this costly mistake go to waste, learn from it and learn how to set healthy boundaries.

But also forgive because holding onto this is going to eat you up inside and harm your relationship with your wife. It's not worth it, why hold on to it?

Sun Hat

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2020, 06:49:52 PM »
Don't give another thought to whether or not he's mentally ill. It's not your problem. Regardless of why he behaves the way that he does, it's best that you don't have anything to do with him. You don't ever need to see Jeff or your MIL again.

However, your wife may still want a relationship of some sort with her mother. That'll be really hard to do if you insist on getting the $38k from her mother, since it sounds as though it's more than she has. Could you consider the $38K a gift to your wife to allow her to brush the whole debacle under a rug to continue to see her mother? Try to put a lien on the property, but otherwise consider it gone.

Be the husband who shelled out a small fortune to try to save the place where her fond family memories were made, and loved her so much that he shrugged off the insults and lost money when it failed... rather than the husband who sued her mother.

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2020, 07:36:06 PM »
That’s the plan. Get my money back, and walk away.

You're not getting your 38k back. At least, not without a horrible fight that'll spill over into your marriage. How much would a bitter divorce cost you?

So consider the 38k gone and forgive your in-laws. You shouldn't have to, it sucks and you very understandably feel taken advantage of. But your mistake was inserting your finances into a dysfunctional family dynamic. Don't let this costly mistake go to waste, learn from it and learn how to set healthy boundaries.

But also forgive because holding onto this is going to eat you up inside and harm your relationship with your wife. It's not worth it, why hold on to it?

I’m expecting the,38k back. If not, it’s theft. Plain and simple and,I,will treat it as,theft.

Wife says I will get money back, or god forbid an exchange of cabin equity

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2020, 07:39:48 PM »
Don't give another thought to whether or not he's mentally ill. It's not your problem. Regardless of why he behaves the way that he does, it's best that you don't have anything to do with him. You don't ever need to see Jeff or your MIL again.

However, your wife may still want a relationship of some sort with her mother. That'll be really hard to do if you insist on getting the $38k from her mother, since it sounds as though it's more than she has. Could you consider the $38K a gift to your wife to allow her to brush the whole debacle under a rug to continue to see her mother? Try to put a lien on the property, but otherwise consider it gone.

Be the husband who shelled out a small fortune to try to save the place where her fond family memories were made, and loved her so much that he shrugged off the insults and lost money when it failed... rather than the husband who sued her mother.

I’d accept a lien. As long as it’s not gone forever. If it’s gone, it is theft. Theft is wrong and punishment  will be administered. If she honestly can’t pay back, and doesn’t want to sell the cabin fine. I,was going to,be,without the money anyways had,we gone through with the purchase.

I have a few tricks up the old sleeve if she,just refuses to pay.

Psychstache

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2020, 07:41:04 PM »
Don't give another thought to whether or not he's mentally ill. It's not your problem. Regardless of why he behaves the way that he does, it's best that you don't have anything to do with him. You don't ever need to see Jeff or your MIL again.

However, your wife may still want a relationship of some sort with her mother. That'll be really hard to do if you insist on getting the $38k from her mother, since it sounds as though it's more than she has. Could you consider the $38K a gift to your wife to allow her to brush the whole debacle under a rug to continue to see her mother? Try to put a lien on the property, but otherwise consider it gone.

Be the husband who shelled out a small fortune to try to save the place where her fond family memories were made, and loved her so much that he shrugged off the insults and lost money when it failed... rather than the husband who sued her mother.

I’d accept a lien. As long as it’s not gone forever. If it’s gone, it is theft. Theft is wrong and punishment  will be administered. If she honestly can’t pay back, and doesn’t want to sell the cabin fine. I,was going to,be,without the money anyways had,we gone through with the purchase.

I have a few tricks up the old sleeve if she,just refuses to pay.

Your wife would also have tricks. Namely, divorcing you for filling charges against her family.

FINate

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2020, 08:02:42 PM »
I’m expecting the,38k back. If not, it’s theft. Plain and simple and,I,will treat it as,theft.

Wife says I will get money back, or god forbid an exchange of cabin equity

Indeed, you were wronged and it's within your rights to pursue all options. But oftentimes love means forgoing one's rights for the sake of others. It's entirely your call to decide how much relational damage 38k is worth. I sincerely wish you all the best. 

former player

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2020, 02:21:19 AM »
Your mother in law doesn't have the money without selling the cabin, right?   Can't get blood out of a stone, right?  Put a lien on the cabin so that you get your money back if she sells or dies and then do your best to move on emotionally.  (Easier said than done, that last bit, I know.  But holding a grudge will hurt you, your wife and your marriage much more than it does your mother in law or Jeff.)

Malcat

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2020, 05:08:30 AM »
You keep saying that you and your wife expect to get the money back, but how??? You said MIL only has 20K???

researcher1

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #73 on: November 02, 2020, 05:51:35 AM »
I actually suspected some kind of spectrum at first. Then I actually thought FAS.
There is a history of mental illness in the family.
He’s well beyond shy and introverted. One cottage neighbor pegged him for an 8 year old. Neighbors daughter said,12-13. 
 
until he’s diagnosed, he’s just an entitled prick
Then again maybe he is just an asshole.
I’m leaning towards he’s just a sociopath
 
Is lazy, entitled, arrogant, throws hissy fits when things don’t go his way.
His enabling bothered me for years.
This went on for 8 years until he made a comment that made me realize I was not a brother.
You seem to have an unhealthy, deep-seated fixation with Jeff.
He CLEARLY has a moderate to severe mental illness.  Any rational thinking adult could see this.
Yet you want to pretend he isn’t suffering from a disability and just call him names.
 
Why has the enabling “bothered you for years”?
He’s not your brother.  It doesn’t directly impact you.  He’s an introvert who locks himself in the basement and should have almost zero impact on your life.
He has a mental illness.  Get over yourself and stop obsessing over how you’ve been wronged by him.

Quote
Her only concern is the other siblings be allowed when she dies to attend the cabin. Especially Jeff.
 
We institute new rules, We don’t want him in the winter
I explain my concerns and there will be newer rules. I call her son an ass@#$%.
We don’t legally own the cabin at this point.
You must be incredibly self-absorbed if you can’t see the problem you created. 

The mother-in-law’s singular concern with selling is that her son Jeff be allowed to attend the cabin.
So what do you do?
- Unilaterally institute your own new rules for the cabin
- Explain to mother-in-law that YOUR new rules will prohibit Jeff from going to the cabin
- Tell her that her youngest child, who suffers from a serious mental illness, is an asshole.

You do all of this when you don’t even own the cabin!
You are making up rules and banning family members from a cabin that’s not even yours.
How do you not understand that your actions are completely inappropriate, offensive and go against the singular wish that mother-in-law had for the cabin?

Quote
we are getting a good price.
50k of that via interest free loan forgivable upon death.
Mom agrees to gift or “preinherit” my wife the other 25% in exchange for a life interest in the property.
How can you not see that this sweetheart deal you’ve negotiate might not go over well with the family?
You’re effectively getting the family cabin for pennies on the dollar.

Other family members, and the mother-in-law, should rightfully question the terms of this deal.
It certainly seems like mom and the other siblings are getting the short end of this deal.

Quote
She calls me bossy, controlling, and a bully.
Now she’s insulted me. I’m mad, and hurt.
Mom treated me with disrespect. I see that as someone biting the hand that feeds her.
It doesn’t matter who’s family it is. It was an attack on me.

There is nothing I need to apologize for. I did nothing wrong
I did everything that was asked, and did so  in a way that everyone’s needs were met. All except Jeff’s needs. Lol
I treated mom and her entire family like gold.
You DO sound like a bossy, controlling bully!
How did you think the mother-in-law would respond?

You just called her disabled son an “asshole” and banned him from the family cabin that you don’t even own!
You create your own set of rules, which goes against the one condition she had for the property.
You did NOT do everything that was asked and in a way that met everyone’s needs.  Far from it.  Then to just dismiss the key issue as…”All except (disabled) Jeff’s needs, LOL”.
 
Then you claim you “did nothing wrong”?  That you have “nothing I need to apologize for”?
As much as you complain about “Jeff”, you also sound like an “entitled, arrogant prick who throws hissy fits when things don’t go your way”.
This is illustrated by your desire to disown your mother-in-law, stating that “business is business”.  Shouldn’t family be more important than business?

Quote
Ok, daughter has been instructed to no longer lend him money, or finance anything he buys used from her. She has also been told to notify us if he asks for money.
I’ve instructed my daughter to NEVER, not once, not EVER to feel she needs to keep any kind of Secret from me,
Daughter is 25.
You also seem like a controlling egomaniac.

Your daughter is 25 YEARS OLD!
She is a grown independent woman who can make her own decisions.

She can decide how/when to spend her own money or what personal conversations she shares with you.
She doesn’t need someone to “instruct” her on what to do with her money or “told” what she needs to notify you about.

Also, is this your daughter by birth or a step-daughter?
If the latter, it is even more egregious that you're bossing her around like this.



mozar

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2020, 08:45:29 AM »
Quote
he beats the shit out of her and kills her, then,himself or worse, us.....
If he threatens you, make a police report. Unless he actually does something dangerous you can't do anything. Constantly thinking about "what ifs" doesn't help you.

I recommend that you stop going to family functions for awhile.

Villanelle

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2020, 09:07:31 AM »
I feel sad for Jeff and for your mother in law.

You seem to have a deep lack of self-awareness.  "If you see something, say something," doesn't mean "say someone is an asshole and that he's been coddled and favored", or worse.

And at the beginning of this thread, you didn't mention mental illness at all.  Now, suddenly you are trying to frame yourself as a hero who cares about Jeff's well being?  You don't like him.  You don't like MIL.  You use "honesty" as an excuse to tell them mean things in tactless ways.

You sound like a controlling person who can't stand it when people around him make different choices than he would--your MIL, your daughter, your BIL, and even your wife.

I suspect your MIL's version of events would be quite different, and based on the pattern in your post, I suspect I'd find hers more credible.

Walk away from these people.  You can't see the mess you are making, you refuse to accept that you have any blame at all (other than "should have known better"), so your behavior will never change, which means there is zero reason to believe than any interaction you have with MIL or BIL will ever turn out differently.  You need to disengage, entirely.  Work with your wife to have her handle the cabin.  (And "work with her" means actually listening to what she has to say and compromising, not dictating terms to her and expecting her to abide by them and handle it exactly the way you think is right.)  Disengage entirely with the ILs.  If you can't keep your mouth shut and prevent yourself from spewing insulting "honesty", then don't even visit them (but don't even attempt to dissuade your wife from doing so, because whether you can see it or not, this is a you problem, not a her problem).  You can't interact with these people in a way that is healthy for any of you.  So stop interacting.  You want to know what you can do?  It's that; it's not putting any of you in situations where things will get heated, and that seems to mean any situation where you are together.

If you are concerned about Jeff--which I don't believe for a second because that didn't crop up until people responded questioning is mental health or cognitive status--that's what you can do.  Stop adding fuel to everyone's fire.

And maybe worth with a counselor to determine why you are so focused on other people's relationships not being what you consider fair or healthy. 

Jon Bon

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #76 on: November 02, 2020, 10:11:18 AM »
So Jeff is blameless because he is 100% not responsible for his actions and the OP is a jerk because he dared to be upset about someone stealing $38,000 from him?

Got it...

OP just log off, your situation sucks, and venting here is not going to get you anywhere. Buy the cabin outright, or get your money back (if you can) are your only options IMO.

researcher1

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2020, 10:22:56 AM »
You seem to have a deep lack of self-awareness. 
You don't like him.  You don't like MIL.  You use "honesty" as an excuse to tell them mean things in tactless ways.
You sound like a controlling person who can't stand it when people around him make different choices than he would
I suspect your MIL's version of events would be quite different, and based on the pattern in your post, I suspect I'd find hers more credible.
Walk away from these people.  You can't see the mess you are making, you refuse to accept that you have any blame at all
Disengage entirely with the ILs. 

And maybe worth with a counselor to determine why you are so focused on other people's relationships not being what you consider fair or healthy.
+100!
This more succinctly summarizes the thoughts I shared in my post.

firemoney, what is your relationship like with your own family? Do you see your mother, father, siblings often? 

researcher1

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #78 on: November 02, 2020, 10:26:40 AM »
So Jeff is blameless because he is 100% not responsible for his actions and the OP is a jerk because he dared to be upset about someone stealing $38,000 from him?
Could you point out the posts in which anyone said any of these things?

I haven't read a single post that suggested...
- Jeff is blameless
- Jeff is not responsible for his actions
- OP is a jerk for paying for cabin repairs.

However, the OP is most certainly a jerk for several other things you didn't mention.

Malcat

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2020, 10:33:07 AM »
I think you're being treated a little unfairly.

I agree that your posts are coming off harsh and uncaring, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that it's because you are angry and feeling betrayed by someone you care enough about to call "mom" not MIL.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here to back away from drama you don't belong in, to find some compassion in the fact that Jeff is likely not operating from the same kind of mental space that you are, that his mother has had a lifetime of loving and worrying about him, that these people just lost their father/husband, and that what you see as trying to help is perhaps not the most appropriate for the situation.

Take the good from the advice that you've seen, and instead of getting offended by those who have heavily criticized you, try to take a dispassionate look at it and see how someone *could* interpret your behaviour that way. It might give you some insight into why your mother in law reacted the way she did? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not saying that justifies it, but even when someone is unfair to you, the wiser response is to try and understand why. Unfortunately, the human response is to focus on why they're wrong.

It's probably because I just went through something similar that I'm particularly understanding about where you're coming from, how you are feeling, and why it's coming out the way it is.

Again, try to take from these replies what you can, and try to focus on what really matters, which is establishing more appropriate boundaries and being the best support you can to your wife and child as *they* deal with *their* challenging family dynamics.

Villanelle

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #80 on: November 02, 2020, 10:53:55 AM »
So Jeff is blameless because he is 100% not responsible for his actions and the OP is a jerk because he dared to be upset about someone stealing $38,000 from him?

Got it...

OP just log off, your situation sucks, and venting here is not going to get you anywhere. Buy the cabin outright, or get your money back (if you can) are your only options IMO.

I'm sorry, I must have missed some posts.  Can you please qoute the places where anyone has said Jeff is blameless? 

nalor511

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #81 on: November 02, 2020, 12:02:57 PM »
I said it once, and I'll say it again - OP is investing too much in this situation. Take a breath. Back up. Start untangling yourself from this mess.

You can't control anyone else, and emotionally (or financially) investing yourself in other peoples' bad decisions is only going to lead to frustration, aggravation, and heartache. I get it, this is your family. Know what the #1 cause of stress is? Family. Back off. It hurts at first, I know. Try treating them as acquaintances. Would you get this upset at acquaintances? Probably not.

Letj

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #82 on: November 02, 2020, 03:48:59 PM »
I feel sad for Jeff and for your mother in law.

You seem to have a deep lack of self-awareness.  "If you see something, say something," doesn't mean "say someone is an asshole and that he's been coddled and favored", or worse.

And at the beginning of this thread, you didn't mention mental illness at all.  Now, suddenly you are trying to frame yourself as a hero who cares about Jeff's well being?  You don't like him.  You don't like MIL.  You use "honesty" as an excuse to tell them mean things in tactless ways.

You sound like a controlling person who can't stand it when people around him make different choices than he would--your MIL, your daughter, your BIL, and even your wife.

I suspect your MIL's version of events would be quite different, and based on the pattern in your post, I suspect I'd find hers more credible.

Walk away from these people.  You can't see the mess you are making, you refuse to accept that you have any blame at all (other than "should have known better"), so your behavior will never change, which means there is zero reason to believe than any interaction you have with MIL or BIL will ever turn out differently.  You need to disengage, entirely.  Work with your wife to have her handle the cabin.  (And "work with her" means actually listening to what she has to say and compromising, not dictating terms to her and expecting her to abide by them and handle it exactly the way you think is right.)  Disengage entirely with the ILs.  If you can't keep your mouth shut and prevent yourself from spewing insulting "honesty", then don't even visit them (but don't even attempt to dissuade your wife from doing so, because whether you can see it or not, this is a you problem, not a her problem).  You can't interact with these people in a way that is healthy for any of you.  So stop interacting.  You want to know what you can do?  It's that; it's not putting any of you in situations where things will get heated, and that seems to mean any situation where you are together.

If you are concerned about Jeff--which I don't believe for a second because that didn't crop up until people responded questioning is mental health or cognitive status--that's what you can do.  Stop adding fuel to everyone's fire.

And maybe worth with a counselor to determine why you are so focused on other people's relationships not being what you consider fair or healthy.

You nailed it. Both you and Reserche. My sentiments exactly.

historienne

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #83 on: November 02, 2020, 08:40:31 PM »
I just want to say how discouraging it is to read the characterizations of autistic folks on this thread.  As someone who knows and loves several autistic people, it's fucking heartbreaking to think that this is what the world thinks about my loved ones. 

Autism doesn't make people selfish or unempathetic.  There are definitely autistic people who are those things, but it's not because they are autistic. 

In addition to all the general reasons for not diagnosing people over the internet, I'd really like to ask people to stop perpetuating harmful stereotypes about autistic people.

Malcat

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #84 on: November 02, 2020, 09:37:44 PM »
I just want to say how discouraging it is to read the characterizations of autistic folks on this thread.  As someone who knows and loves several autistic people, it's fucking heartbreaking to think that this is what the world thinks about my loved ones. 

Autism doesn't make people selfish or unempathetic.  There are definitely autistic people who are those things, but it's not because they are autistic. 

In addition to all the general reasons for not diagnosing people over the internet, I'd really like to ask people to stop perpetuating harmful stereotypes about autistic people.

Agreed. I was also very careful to distinguish autism from mental illness because autism is not a mental illness.

Undiagnosed autism can lead to horrible comorbid mental illnesses and really destructive patterns of behaviour, but that's a failure of caregivers and society to provide the person with autism the supports they need to thrive, not a primary affect of autism.

albireo13

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #85 on: November 03, 2020, 07:43:47 AM »
How about ....

  Sneek out there one night and torch the cabin!
Then everyone is on the same page.  Divy up any insurance on it as you see fit.

Start all over with your own cabin if you wish.   No Jeff.

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #86 on: November 04, 2020, 08:53:38 AM »
You keep saying that you and your wife expect to get the money back, but how??? You said MIL only has 20K???

Not my problem. She,can take out a loan, or her son can get a job and start paying rent. Simple, lol.

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #87 on: November 04, 2020, 08:55:26 AM »
I just want to say how discouraging it is to read the characterizations of autistic folks on this thread.  As someone who knows and loves several autistic people, it's fucking heartbreaking to think that this is what the world thinks about my loved ones. 

Autism doesn't make people selfish or unempathetic.  There are definitely autistic people who are those things, but it's not because they are autistic. 

In addition to all the general reasons for not diagnosing people over the internet, I'd really like to ask people to stop perpetuating harmful stereotypes about autistic people.

I’m not personally saying autistic people are selfish. All I’m saying is Jeff is not normal and I don’t know why. I’m willing to accept it’s something mental (autistic or other).

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #88 on: November 04, 2020, 08:56:46 AM »
Your mother in law doesn't have the money without selling the cabin, right?   Can't get blood out of a stone, right?  Put a lien on the cabin so that you get your money back if she sells or dies and then do your best to move on emotionally.  (Easier said than done, that last bit, I know.  But holding a grudge will hurt you, your wife and your marriage much more than it does your mother in law or Jeff.)

I’d be ok,with a lien. I,don’t need,the actual money. I just don’t want it to disappear. It was not a gift it was part of the “deal”.


firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #89 on: November 04, 2020, 09:00:36 AM »
I actually suspected some kind of spectrum at first. Then I actually thought FAS.
There is a history of mental illness in the family.
He’s well beyond shy and introverted. One cottage neighbor pegged him for an 8 year old. Neighbors daughter said,12-13. 
 
until he’s diagnosed, he’s just an entitled prick
Then again maybe he is just an asshole.
I’m leaning towards he’s just a sociopath
 
Is lazy, entitled, arrogant, throws hissy fits when things don’t go his way.
His enabling bothered me for years.
This went on for 8 years until he made a comment that made me realize I was not a brother.
You seem to have an unhealthy, deep-seated fixation with Jeff.
He CLEARLY has a moderate to severe mental illness.  Any rational thinking adult could see this.
Yet you want to pretend he isn’t suffering from a disability and just call him names.
 
Why has the enabling “bothered you for years”?
He’s not your brother.  It doesn’t directly impact you.  He’s an introvert who locks himself in the basement and should have almost zero impact on your life.
He has a mental illness.  Get over yourself and stop obsessing over how you’ve been wronged by him.

Quote
Her only concern is the other siblings be allowed when she dies to attend the cabin. Especially Jeff.
 
We institute new rules, We don’t want him in the winter
I explain my concerns and there will be newer rules. I call her son an ass@#$%.
We don’t legally own the cabin at this point.
You must be incredibly self-absorbed if you can’t see the problem you created. 

The mother-in-law’s singular concern with selling is that her son Jeff be allowed to attend the cabin.
So what do you do?
- Unilaterally institute your own new rules for the cabin
- Explain to mother-in-law that YOUR new rules will prohibit Jeff from going to the cabin
- Tell her that her youngest child, who suffers from a serious mental illness, is an asshole.

You do all of this when you don’t even own the cabin!
You are making up rules and banning family members from a cabin that’s not even yours.
How do you not understand that your actions are completely inappropriate, offensive and go against the singular wish that mother-in-law had for the cabin?

Quote
we are getting a good price.
50k of that via interest free loan forgivable upon death.
Mom agrees to gift or “preinherit” my wife the other 25% in exchange for a life interest in the property.
How can you not see that this sweetheart deal you’ve negotiate might not go over well with the family?
You’re effectively getting the family cabin for pennies on the dollar.

Other family members, and the mother-in-law, should rightfully question the terms of this deal.
It certainly seems like mom and the other siblings are getting the short end of this deal.

Quote
She calls me bossy, controlling, and a bully.
Now she’s insulted me. I’m mad, and hurt.
Mom treated me with disrespect. I see that as someone biting the hand that feeds her.
It doesn’t matter who’s family it is. It was an attack on me.

There is nothing I need to apologize for. I did nothing wrong
I did everything that was asked, and did so  in a way that everyone’s needs were met. All except Jeff’s needs. Lol
I treated mom and her entire family like gold.
You DO sound like a bossy, controlling bully!
How did you think the mother-in-law would respond?

You just called her disabled son an “asshole” and banned him from the family cabin that you don’t even own!
You create your own set of rules, which goes against the one condition she had for the property.
You did NOT do everything that was asked and in a way that met everyone’s needs.  Far from it.  Then to just dismiss the key issue as…”All except (disabled) Jeff’s needs, LOL”.
 
Then you claim you “did nothing wrong”?  That you have “nothing I need to apologize for”?
As much as you complain about “Jeff”, you also sound like an “entitled, arrogant prick who throws hissy fits when things don’t go your way”.
This is illustrated by your desire to disown your mother-in-law, stating that “business is business”.  Shouldn’t family be more important than business?

Quote
Ok, daughter has been instructed to no longer lend him money, or finance anything he buys used from her. She has also been told to notify us if he asks for money.
I’ve instructed my daughter to NEVER, not once, not EVER to feel she needs to keep any kind of Secret from me,
Daughter is 25.
You also seem like a controlling egomaniac.

Your daughter is 25 YEARS OLD!
She is a grown independent woman who can make her own decisions.

She can decide how/when to spend her own money or what personal conversations she shares with you.
She doesn’t need someone to “instruct” her on what to do with her money or “told” what she needs to notify you about.

Also, is this your daughter by birth or a step-daughter?
If the latter, it is even more egregious that you're bossing her around like this.

Because you,clearly,didn’t read what I wrote....

He’s bugged me for years because he sat and did nothing.

We were instituting rules for our cabin. Not yours, not Jeff’s.

The deal was a win win for everyone. We gave, and we,got. Mom gave and she got.

Remember I don’t want the,fuxking  cabin.

So take your shitty,attitude elsewhere. You are a fucking goof.

MOD EDIT: Not okay. Please read forum rule number one. Please interact politely with people, even those criticizing you.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 11:45:52 AM by arebelspy »

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #90 on: November 04, 2020, 09:01:44 AM »
I actually suspected some kind of spectrum at first. Then I actually thought FAS.
There is a history of mental illness in the family.
He’s well beyond shy and introverted. One cottage neighbor pegged him for an 8 year old. Neighbors daughter said,12-13. 
 
until he’s diagnosed, he’s just an entitled prick
Then again maybe he is just an asshole.
I’m leaning towards he’s just a sociopath
 
Is lazy, entitled, arrogant, throws hissy fits when things don’t go his way.
His enabling bothered me for years.
This went on for 8 years until he made a comment that made me realize I was not a brother.
You seem to have an unhealthy, deep-seated fixation with Jeff.
He CLEARLY has a moderate to severe mental illness.  Any rational thinking adult could see this.
Yet you want to pretend he isn’t suffering from a disability and just call him names.
 
Why has the enabling “bothered you for years”?
He’s not your brother.  It doesn’t directly impact you.  He’s an introvert who locks himself in the basement and should have almost zero impact on your life.
He has a mental illness.  Get over yourself and stop obsessing over how you’ve been wronged by him.

Quote
Her only concern is the other siblings be allowed when she dies to attend the cabin. Especially Jeff.
 
We institute new rules, We don’t want him in the winter
I explain my concerns and there will be newer rules. I call her son an ass@#$%.
We don’t legally own the cabin at this point.
You must be incredibly self-absorbed if you can’t see the problem you created. 

The mother-in-law’s singular concern with selling is that her son Jeff be allowed to attend the cabin.
So what do you do?
- Unilaterally institute your own new rules for the cabin
- Explain to mother-in-law that YOUR new rules will prohibit Jeff from going to the cabin
- Tell her that her youngest child, who suffers from a serious mental illness, is an asshole.

You do all of this when you don’t even own the cabin!
You are making up rules and banning family members from a cabin that’s not even yours.
How do you not understand that your actions are completely inappropriate, offensive and go against the singular wish that mother-in-law had for the cabin?

Quote
we are getting a good price.
50k of that via interest free loan forgivable upon death.
Mom agrees to gift or “preinherit” my wife the other 25% in exchange for a life interest in the property.
How can you not see that this sweetheart deal you’ve negotiate might not go over well with the family?
You’re effectively getting the family cabin for pennies on the dollar.

Other family members, and the mother-in-law, should rightfully question the terms of this deal.
It certainly seems like mom and the other siblings are getting the short end of this deal.

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She calls me bossy, controlling, and a bully.
Now she’s insulted me. I’m mad, and hurt.
Mom treated me with disrespect. I see that as someone biting the hand that feeds her.
It doesn’t matter who’s family it is. It was an attack on me.

There is nothing I need to apologize for. I did nothing wrong
I did everything that was asked, and did so  in a way that everyone’s needs were met. All except Jeff’s needs. Lol
I treated mom and her entire family like gold.
You DO sound like a bossy, controlling bully!
How did you think the mother-in-law would respond?

You just called her disabled son an “asshole” and banned him from the family cabin that you don’t even own!
You create your own set of rules, which goes against the one condition she had for the property.
You did NOT do everything that was asked and in a way that met everyone’s needs.  Far from it.  Then to just dismiss the key issue as…”All except (disabled) Jeff’s needs, LOL”.
 
Then you claim you “did nothing wrong”?  That you have “nothing I need to apologize for”?
As much as you complain about “Jeff”, you also sound like an “entitled, arrogant prick who throws hissy fits when things don’t go your way”.
This is illustrated by your desire to disown your mother-in-law, stating that “business is business”.  Shouldn’t family be more important than business?

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Ok, daughter has been instructed to no longer lend him money, or finance anything he buys used from her. She has also been told to notify us if he asks for money.
I’ve instructed my daughter to NEVER, not once, not EVER to feel she needs to keep any kind of Secret from me,
Daughter is 25.
You also seem like a controlling egomaniac.

Your daughter is 25 YEARS OLD!
She is a grown independent woman who can make her own decisions.

She can decide how/when to spend her own money or what personal conversations she shares with you.
She doesn’t need someone to “instruct” her on what to do with her money or “told” what she needs to notify you about.

Also, is this your daughter by birth or a step-daughter?
If the latter, it is even more egregious that you're bossing her around like this.

But nice,trolling though. I,do.give credit where it’s deserved. You can still go.fuck yourself, lol

MOD EDIT: Not okay. Please read forum rule number one. Please interact politely with people, even those criticizing you.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 11:46:04 AM by arebelspy »

researcher1

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #91 on: November 04, 2020, 09:26:02 AM »
So take your shitty,attitude elsewhere. You are a fucking goof.
But nice,trolling though. I,do.give credit where it’s deserved. You can still go.fuck yourself, lol
It appears I've uncovered some hard truths that you've been keen to avoid/ignore until now.

This is evident when you immediately jump to cussing and name calling, which was your same reaction towards the mother-in-law and Jeff, instead of addressing the valid points made.

Laura33

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #92 on: November 04, 2020, 09:31:35 AM »
So take your shitty,attitude elsewhere. You are a fucking goof.
But nice,trolling though. I,do.give credit where it’s deserved. You can still go.fuck yourself, lol

This is not helping to prove your claim to be the reasonable one in the relationship.

researcher1

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2020, 08:08:56 AM »
firemoney -

Care to provide an update on this situation?

skp

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2020, 02:52:49 PM »
I'm late to this thread. When I read it I could really relate.  I can understand where the mother in law is coming from in this story.  I understand wanting to pass a camp we love on to the ones we love, especially when they love whatever it is we are passing on as much as we do.  My sister and I inherited our family cabin from our late father.  We grew up there, all our vacations were there.  My dad loved it and so do we.  So, emotionally, I understand wanting to keep it the camp in the family.  But then there comes practicalities.  Between my sister and I, there are 3 grandchildren and only one of them who loves it as much as we do (and it is my sisters child and not my children.)  This child doesn't have the time or the ability to keep the camp up.  I get sad when I think of it. But what good is letting a camp I love fall apart. Unless this nephew steps up and shows me he can take care of the camp, when my husband dies, I think we should sell it. My 2 won't miss it (much) and he can't take care of it.  I can only hope that whoever gets it after us will love it as much as my dad did. 
I think this MIL is acting emotionally right now, and in a few weeks the practicality of the situation will set in.  I think you should give her time.  I bet she will apologize.  I think she should sell the camp, repay you.
I do have a thought though.  Would it be possible to reserve the brother in laws "cut" as a piece of property he can camp on?  That would honor your father in laws wishes and be a win win for everyone.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2020, 03:10:07 PM »
tl;dr......

You don't need this negativity in your life, take ownership and cut it out.

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #96 on: March 14, 2021, 06:14:15 PM »
So take your shitty,attitude elsewhere. You are a fucking goof.
But nice,trolling though. I,do.give credit where it’s deserved. You can still go.fuck yourself, lol

This is not helping to prove your claim to be the reasonable one in the relationship.

Just calling on stupidity. Attack, be prepared for a rebuttal.

firemoney

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #97 on: March 14, 2021, 06:18:01 PM »
firemoney -

Care to provide an update on this situation?

Got all my money back. Wife and I have still not spoken to MIL. BIL is happy that we didn’t “get” the cabin. Life carry’s on for him as if nothing has happen. (He left mom all alone and attended the cabin by himself for,xmas.... first xmas since dad died, lol classy boy). He has no clue that mommie is suffering financially, and that it’s the reason mom need to sell. 

Daughter had a brief,visit to pick up nanas dying dog for a sleep over. Mom completely ignored my,birthday. Wife got a simple “happy birthday” email.

Mom is pissed at me because baby boy wasn’t an issue until I made him an issue. Oh well. Her loss. Don’t bite the hand that feeds ya (our branch of the family did everything).

Not my problem anymore. We’re gonna spend out time and money traveling instead of dumping it into. Cabin. Cabins are a huge money pit.

I’m actually thankful she renamed on our deal, but I’m still upset on how she did it.

Still no apology and my wife will not speak to her until she does. I’m trying to encourage my wife and daughter to try and salvage a relationship.

Someone has to make the first move. I’m hoping she’s just embarrassed and doesn’t know what to say, and that she didn’t actually mean what she said and did so under extreme duress due to her abuse.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 06:23:15 PM by firemoney »

six-car-habit

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #98 on: March 15, 2021, 01:52:08 AM »
 Well congratulations on getting the money back, that's great .

 Did the MIL sell the cabin to come up with the $$ money ??

 It's been about 3.5 months since the last posts in this thread, and all things considered, [whether she sold the cabin or came up with the repayment money in some other fashion], waiting an additional 14 weeks since the original postings, to get the full 38K repair money paid back , from a person who possibly only had $20K liquid in November, seems to be a relatively quick resolution.

 Unsure how she would have paid you back without talking with you or your wife - [ unless she sent a check ? ] -  but it's probably a good time for your wife to call her and thank her for repaying the $$.

AMandM

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Re: Enabling mother in law causes issues, how to deal?
« Reply #99 on: March 15, 2021, 08:22:59 AM »
Well, I'm happy for you that you got your money back.

On the other hand, you are, by your own admission, still upset; your MIL is pissed; your wife and her mother are not on speaking terms.

Not exactly a happy ending. I'm sorry.