Author Topic: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?  (Read 4596 times)

precrime3

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Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« on: June 19, 2016, 01:14:45 AM »
With it being announced several years and the release getting pushed back to sometime this year, with most deliveries occurring 2017 it seems. Should this be a car mustachians should be on the look out for? I'll attach a link below, but basically here are some selling points:

  • $6,800 starting price
  • 2 seater, 3 wheeled vehicle
  • 84 mpg

Here are all the technical details and proposed dimensions when it's supposed to come out in 2017. https://www.eliomotors.com/features/

What do you guys think? Should I be on the lookout for this when it does finally release?

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2016, 02:00:40 AM »
Nah I wouldn't bother.

For the price a used Yaris or Fit or Accent is probably a better bet. At least then you've got the backing of a major carmaker rather than some fly by night company (not to mention dealer network, etc).

Does it even have to pass the same safety tests as a regular car?

If you're prepared to get an Elio, why not just get a 250 scooter?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 02:03:41 AM by alsoknownasDean »

precrime3

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2016, 03:06:11 AM »
Nah I wouldn't bother.

For the price a used Yaris or Fit or Accent is probably a better bet. At least then you've got the backing of a major carmaker rather than some fly by night company (not to mention dealer network, etc).

Does it even have to pass the same safety tests as a regular car?

If you're prepared to get an Elio, why not just get a 250 scooter?

You make a good point. Repairs and 3rd party support will be horrible for the Elios. Regarding safety, they have this: https://www.eliomotors.com/gallery/#safety_video

And I never said I was set on purchasing one. I stumbled upon it and was curious if it was something viable. Regarding scooters, the only 2 wheel vehicles I do are bikes so those are out.


Spork

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2016, 06:01:18 AM »
I think the biggest issue I have with Elio is they've sort of marketed themselves as vaporware.  They've been around (guessing) almost 5 years and have been marketing and taking down payments -- all with no production cars.  Last I looked (a long time back) they didn't even have real specifications.  They were promising huge MPG, but didn't know who was building their engine just yet, hadn't done any of the various regulatory testing, etc.

Jim2001

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2016, 10:27:29 AM »
This article http://www.gizmag.com/elio-chassis-complete/43050/ says they were in the process crash testing prototypes as of April.  They're got Roush helping with engineering and I thought the engine was finalized last year.  I'm interested in it for the car-pool lane access and 84 mpg would cut my gas bill by more than half.  My current commute is 60+ miles each way in LA traffic, so I'm hopeful they can deliver something.

libertarian4321

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2016, 04:50:25 PM »
With it being announced several years and the release getting pushed back to sometime this year, with most deliveries occurring 2017 it seems. Should this be a car mustachians should be on the look out for? I'll attach a link below, but basically here are some selling points:

  • $6,800 starting price
  • 2 seater, 3 wheeled vehicle
  • 84 mpg

Here are all the technical details and proposed dimensions when it's supposed to come out in 2017. https://www.eliomotors.com/features/

What do you guys think? Should I be on the lookout for this when it does finally release?

I'd buy one, assuming they ever actually reach production.  Mostly just for commuting.

And yes, I realize I could "get a better deal" buying a used scooter.  But I don't have a death wish.  Yesterday, I was driving at dusk, and almost ran over a small motorcycle (much larger than a "scooter") on the highway- I almost didn't see the guy as he weaved in front of me.  If I'd hit that clown, he would have ended up being a hood ornament on my truck.  I probably wouldn't have even felt the "thump."

The Elio, even though a "3-wheel" is a CAR.  It may not meet all the government specifications of a car, but it looks like a car, sits like a car, has the features of a car.  That used scooter does NOT.  And perhaps most importantly, it's large enough that no one will drive over you without seeing you, and you won't end up as road pizza if you make a tiny mistake (as all too many motorcycle riders do).

That said, I'm skeptical that this thing will ever make it to market.

BlueMR2

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2016, 05:05:42 PM »
I'm *very* interested, but first it actually needs to make it to market...

I have a motorcycle that I love to ride, but I need something with a roof.  I don't make my own hours, so sometimes I have to be in motion during some pretty ridiculous thunderstorms, rain, snow, sleet, etc.  Even if I don't mind getting soaked, often I have papers/equipment with me that needs to stay dry.

I'm a little concerned about support, but hey, if they can go for this long without folding (and not selling anything), I suppose they're really in it for the long haul.  Also, I do have a handful of performance shops within just a couple miles of my house and a couple of them have engineers on staff (I've had parts made for my other cars before when OEM parts were no longer available).

As a car guy, a Fit or Yaris just isn't going to work.  Those things are absolutely the most soul crushing vehicles for an enthusiast to drive.  :-)

Safety, well, not really on my radar, but it can't be worse than a motorcycle...

precrime3

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2016, 05:17:53 PM »
So there is potential in a car like this? It'll be interesting to see what the depreciation looks like after a year or two on such a cheap car. I'll keep my eyes peeled, hopefully they start delivering 2017.

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Kroaler

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2016, 11:53:15 AM »
IM un educated on the law,   but I was under the impression that 3 wheeled vehicles dont have to meet the same safety criteria as a 4 wheel vehicle.   

Fore safety reasons I think id rather just buy a used sub compact...

Axecleaver

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2016, 12:05:53 PM »
Color me skeptical. It's still vaporware, and unlikely to hit the 84 MPG that they have based all of their marketing around. They still need to clear the hurdle of requiring operators to own a motorcycle license in most states. Let's resurrect this thread once a year, and we'll see how many resurrections it takes before this either shuts down or hits production. My under/over is 2020.

precrime3

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2016, 03:03:31 AM »
Sounds like a plan. I'll more likely update it if any new info comes out. I know a handful are supposed to be sold for some funds to customers this year.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2016, 03:16:02 AM »
As a car guy, a Fit or Yaris just isn't going to work.  Those things are absolutely the most soul crushing vehicles for an enthusiast to drive.  :-)

What about a Ford Fiesta then? They're renowned to be a good drive for a subcompact. One with a manual gearbox wouldn't be all that bad, especially with sports suspension and nice sticky tires :)

But yeah, if Americans don't buy many subcompact cars, what makes you think the Elio will sell? Especially if it doesn't achieve it's purported $6800 asking price.

A lightly used subcompact would probably be a better option :)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 03:17:57 AM by alsoknownasDean »

precrime3

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2016, 04:08:29 AM »
As a car guy, a Fit or Yaris just isn't going to work.  Those things are absolutely the most soul crushing vehicles for an enthusiast to drive.  :-)

What about a Ford Fiesta then? They're renowned to be a good drive for a subcompact. One with a manual gearbox wouldn't be all that bad, especially with sports suspension and nice sticky tires :)

But yeah, if Americans don't buy many subcompact cars, what makes you think the Elio will sell? Especially if it doesn't achieve it's purported $6800 asking price.

A lightly used subcompact would probably be a better option :)

The kickstarter campaign which raised over $200 million is a good indicator of interest. Plus many people have put up to $1000 for a reservation for a car off the production line. I realize this car wouldn't be for everyone, but it does seem to serve a niche many are interested in. The $6,800 is only the base price, with customizable upgrades and such detailed on their website.

RocketSurgeon

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2016, 07:08:53 AM »
Not only will it not be for everyone, it won't be for anyone at the rate it's going.

They should rename it Car Citizen. [/nerd jokes]

prognastat

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2016, 07:16:27 AM »
As a car guy, a Fit or Yaris just isn't going to work.  Those things are absolutely the most soul crushing vehicles for an enthusiast to drive.  :-)

What about a Ford Fiesta then? They're renowned to be a good drive for a subcompact. One with a manual gearbox wouldn't be all that bad, especially with sports suspension and nice sticky tires :)

But yeah, if Americans don't buy many subcompact cars, what makes you think the Elio will sell? Especially if it doesn't achieve it's purported $6800 asking price.

A lightly used subcompact would probably be a better option :)

The kickstarter campaign which raised over $200 million is a good indicator of interest. Plus many people have put up to $1000 for a reservation for a car off the production line. I realize this car wouldn't be for everyone, but it does seem to serve a niche many are interested in. The $6,800 is only the base price, with customizable upgrades and such detailed on their website.

Where are you getting 200 million raised? Even their own website shows they have managed to raise 99 million and that is in total raised not just crowdfunding.

LibrarIan

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2016, 08:16:57 AM »

You make a good point. Repairs and 3rd party support will be horrible for the Elios.


For what it's worth, they apparently have a thing going with Pep Boys so that you have at least one large chain that will work on the vehicle. 
 
They have a FAQ here: https://support.eliomotors.com/hc/en-us

I'm optimistic about it. Sure, it's taken forever, but I have actually seen commercials on TV as recently as last week (at the gym) for Elio and they currently have over 54,000 reservations. Seems like there are still hurdles to clear, but I have a feeling this will happen sooner rather than later.

precrime3

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2016, 08:19:57 AM »
As a car guy, a Fit or Yaris just isn't going to work.  Those things are absolutely the most soul crushing vehicles for an enthusiast to drive.  :-)

What about a Ford Fiesta then? They're renowned to be a good drive for a subcompact. One with a manual gearbox wouldn't be all that bad, especially with sports suspension and nice sticky tires :)

But yeah, if Americans don't buy many subcompact cars, what makes you think the Elio will sell? Especially if it doesn't achieve it's purported $6800 asking price.

A lightly used subcompact would probably be a better option :)

The kickstarter campaign which raised over $200 million is a good indicator of interest. Plus many people have put up to $1000 for a reservation for a car off the production line. I realize this car wouldn't be for everyone, but it does seem to serve a niche many are interested in. The $6,800 is only the base price, with customizable upgrades and such detailed on their website.

Where are you getting 200 million raised? Even their own website shows they have managed to raise 99 million and that is in total raised not just crowdfunding.

WHOOPS. they need $200 million more, not the other way around. My bad :')

neo von retorch

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2016, 09:14:00 AM »
As a car guy, a Fit or Yaris just isn't going to work.  Those things are absolutely the most soul crushing vehicles for an enthusiast to drive.  :-)

What about a Ford Fiesta then? They're renowned to be a good drive for a subcompact. One with a manual gearbox wouldn't be all that bad, especially with sports suspension and nice sticky tires :)

Mildly off topic - but... you can't lump the Fit and the Yaris together as soul-crushing. I mean, I know what you're saying. If you're set on RWD or 8 cylinders or a late 60s muscle car.. a Fit is no substitute. But... can you drive a Fit enthusiastically? Hell yes!

There's no such thing as perfect car for everyone. The ideals of fun, practical, economical, reliable... and sexy/sleek simply do not exist in one single car. But the Fit gets 4 out of 5 right. Yes, it is fun. You can fly into corners, let the front end slide a little, let off the throttle slightly, and as the tires easily catch, mash on the throttle (since you're actually going pretty slow in this tiny, lightweight car, with low gears, you can get a little "quickness" out of it.) I really think it's a hoot. My wife hates riding in it - "it's a golf cart! you're going so fast!" Yeah, no, I'm not going that fast, but it feels that way, which is kind of the point :)

I think the base Fiesta is halfway between Fit and Yaris... the ST is way cooler, but you lose the reliability (from what I've gathered on Consumer Reports and True Delta.)

Source: I drive a 350Z... and a Fit Sport ('08) w/ Goodyear Eagle Sport tires.

SoccerLounge

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2016, 09:08:10 PM »
But I already have this car. Except with more room and easier to work on and cheaper and legal and available now and more practical and... ;)

(2002 Honda Insight first-gen, highway mpg right now around 80-85)

precrime3

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2016, 02:46:39 AM »
But I already have this car. Except with more room and easier to work on and cheaper and legal and available now and more practical and... ;)

(2002 Honda Insight first-gen, highway mpg right now around 80-85)

That's definitely an argument, a strong one at that. But some people refuse to buy used, so at the same price (roughly) they could get the equivalent (mostly) and it be new.

libertarian4321

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2016, 01:36:42 PM »
But I already have this car. Except with more room and easier to work on and cheaper and legal and available now and more practical and... ;)

(2002 Honda Insight first-gen, highway mpg right now around 80-85)

That's definitely an argument, a strong one at that. But some people refuse to buy used, so at the same price (roughly) they could get the equivalent (mostly) and it be new.

One might also mention that a 2002 vehicle is likely to be more than a bit ragged at this point (though the other guy must have a real peach, he's getting better gas mileage in 2016 than it was rated at in 2002, lol).

To say nothing of the fact that it's unlikely most people are going to be able to find one of the  roughly 257 Insights that Honda sold in 2002 up for sale near where they live. :)

The Honda Insight.  Honda's "Betamax" answer to Toyota's Prius "VHS."

The Insight never sold, because people weren't willing to pay a lot of money for a dorky, small, impractical vehicle, even though it (at least initially) got better gas mileage than the Prius.

The Elio, however, is not only offering great gas mileage, they are doing so for less than half the cost of any other car on the market.  It also doesn't look like crap as the Insight did.

Yes, the Elio is impractical for many- it can only seat 2 (like the Insight) and has very limited cargo space.  It will probably be mostly sold as an inexpensive, high mpg commuter vehicle- and probably a 2nd or 3rd vehicle for most families.

But if they can bring it off, it's not going to suffer from all of the problems that kept the Insight from selling.


acroy

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2016, 01:47:06 PM »
Let's see:

Positives
-MPG of a moto with weather protection and at least some crash protection
-Cheaper than any other new car
-more storage/flexibility than a moto

Negatives
- Does not conform to car crash standards
- 'starting at' $6.8k which means it'll be $10k if/when it hits the market (betcha)
- unknown reliability, likely poor
- difficult to have serviced
- costs as much or more than a used, proven compact
- costs almost as much as a used Nissan Leaf
- less storage/flexibility than almost any used, proven compact

That's a big NOGO in my book. If it comes to fruition there will be early adopters despite the drawbacks. I do wish them well as consumer choice is a good thing.

SoccerLounge

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2016, 02:23:07 PM »
Today I learned: some people really don't like inoffensive little hatchbacks! :D

(though the other guy must have a real peach, he's getting better gas mileage in 2016 than it was rated at in 2002, lol).


It's pretty easy to beat EPA in this car (or a lot of other cars, actually), even without going to the extremes of stuff like pulse-and-glide. Of course, if you're heavy on the gas, want to cruise at 95mph, and want the A/C blasting even in marginal conditions - that is, you want to drive this car like the average Escalade driver drives their vehicle - YMMV, in a very literal sense. But then, driving like that, you're not going to see the advertised mileage out of the Elio, either. ;)

I'm single, so this car is pretty practical for me. It's actually quite surprising how much stuff will fit in the back, even not including the little storage hatch. It doesn't cost much to buy - mine was about $3500 - and maintenance is cheap and easy. You can drive it perfectly well even if the battery totally dies and you never replace it, albeit you won't exactly be racing off the starting line (the motor is mainly to help with getting the car rolling quicker and hill-climbing-without-downshifting; the actual reason the car is so efficient is a combination of a small engine, aero, and weight saving).

But the really important thing, and I can't stress this one enough: this car actually exists. The Elio looks like an awesome concept. I might buy one, used, several years after they're released. If that ever happens. I don't trust vaporware. :)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 02:29:26 PM by SoccerLounge »

acroy

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2016, 05:37:52 PM »
But I already have this car. Except with more room and easier to work on and cheaper and legal and available now and more practical and... ;)

(2002 Honda Insight first-gen, highway mpg right now around 80-85)

That is awesome you have one. 5spd stick?

Pal of mine just bought a 5spd manual Insight (unsure what year) for *drumroll* $550
330k miles - yes that's right
meticulously maintained, garaged 1 owner
every single little thing works; ac, power accessories, etc
Main battery is dead. He disconnected it and driving it as gas-powered only, and getting 60-65mpg!
He plans to diy rebuild the main battery, something like $350 iirc

Fantastic little car. Handmade in Japan, all aluminum, under 2,000lbs - amazing.

precrime3

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Re: Elio Motors: Mustachian Approved?
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2016, 11:56:28 PM »
Let's see:

Positives
-MPG of a moto with weather protection and at least some crash protection
-Cheaper than any other new car
-more storage/flexibility than a moto

Negatives
- Does not conform to car crash standards
- 'starting at' $6.8k which means it'll be $10k if/when it hits the market (betcha)
- unknown reliability, likely poor
- difficult to have serviced
- costs as much or more than a used, proven compact
- costs almost as much as a used Nissan Leaf
- less storage/flexibility than almost any used, proven compact

That's a big NOGO in my book. If it comes to fruition there will be early adopters despite the drawbacks. I do wish them well as consumer choice is a good thing.

Well when you put it like that... Let's see what the  Elio looks like on the road. Who knows, maybe the second or third generation will be better?