Easing Info Fire - Living abroad in summer - Kids Language Camps

[AO1FireTo]

Hello Forum,

We are a couple of years from FIRE.  My wife and I both work remote so I'm trying to convince her to spend the summer in other countries as a way to ease into Fire.  Ideally, we'd find a summer language camp for DD who will be five years old.  I'm thinking we do a house swap for the summer, the kid goes to the camp, we work remote in another country and take our vacations exploring a couple of  countries before we decide on where we want to live permanently once we FIRE.  Looking for recommendations on potential locations with good kids programs.

Has anyone done this?  My secondary agenda is to have DW open up her mind a bit about living in other countries post FIRE.

[MrThatsDifferent]

I think the intent is good, the timing is bad. Worldwide pandemic still raging. I’d let the world get this under control first. That said, whenever the time is right, you can conceivably do this anywhere. Find places you and DW can agree on and then research together. Join online groups from that country to learn more, watch YouTube videos. There’s a ton of information. However, consider how I opened: if your partner is already trepidatious then traveling during a pandemic and vaccine passports and all the current dramas might forever kill the desire.

Also, what’s the point of summer immersion for a 5 yo? They won’t become fluent and unless the language is reinforced it will be forgotten and lost. If you want the kid to become native fluent speaking, invest years not 3 months.

Here’s what I’d do:
1. Research to find a country, particularly one your partner is excited about, let’s say France
2. Make a 3 year Move to France plan
3. Everyone in the family start learning French, highly recommend italki
4. Investigate getting your child into a French school of some kind where you live (maybe there’s a 1 day a week evening class)
5. Research France and try to connect to people, ask friends if they know anyone in France?
6. Investigate immersion programs
7. Consider basing yourself in the country for a couple years while visiting other places

Also, you might want to spend some time working out what you want to achieve. If your goal is to travel around, do it but I don’t think you should sell it as doing it for your kid. Do it because it’s right for the family. Go on a bunch of a regular vacations and visits to get the feel of different places and work through what’s really best for everyone.

[JJ-]

Your tag shows you are in Canada. What about summer trips to Montréal ou Québec? Understood that Canada french is not French French, but sometimes truer to French's roots without the pesky Académie in the way.

It may be also easier to find language camps in Montréal and then pick your destination based on the language camp of your preference. It could also be more appropriate given the covid times.

Alliance française can be a resource for french classes. I see they have one in Toronto. You might find language classes and camps there, or meet families with kids who speak french there.

[ysette9]

Posting to follow because this is almost exactly what I want to do.

My parents hav done successful house exchanges before with families in France and Wales. My thought was to get on one of those websites and work a house exchange between me and a family in France for a summer.

Next I know people who are French and / or have family in France who have mentioned summer camps for kids. I haven’t looked into it myself yet but one friend said it was pretty inexpensive €100/week/kid) so I figured I’d hit up the network for help there when it came to it.

I’d love to hear other ideas.

[ixtap]

At 5, the kid doesn't need a language camp. Introduce her to that language via an app or videos and let her play with kids (aka, any camp offered to the locals).

[AO1FireTo]

Good suggestions thus far.  I understand the statements that the kid isn't going to learn much only learning in the summer.  I'm leaning towards France, since in Canada you learn French in school and this would be a way for her to become more fluent.  The wife is fluent in Mandarin, so China is also an option, but time zones would make that difficult.  We would need to have the kid in some sort of program, since we'd be working remote for a lot of time we would be there.  I think I can get my wife to agree to a summer, if I can find a suitable program for the daughter.  I like the suggestion about potentially doing something in Quebec, there are a lot of beautiful areas in that province with some nice summer cottages.  In reality my goal is to live in a bunch of different countries once we Fire and this is my attempt to get my DW to open her mind to the possibility.  I actually think living in different countries would be good for DD, it would be great exposure, but DW is big on education so I can see some issues with that.

[Freedomin5]

If the goal is to potentially move abroad and experience different cultures, then I’d definitely start with Quebec. Also, consider putting your daughter in the TDSB’s French immersion program.

Since your wife is fluent in Mandarin, does your daughter speak Mandarin as well? Toronto also has a huge Chinese-speaking population. There are immersion programs and weekend language programs. Also, I’m sure you can find (Chinese) immersion experiences in some of the neighborhoods that tend to be heavily populated by Chinese people — Markham, Richmond Hill, etc. I’m sure there are language immersion summer camps because there are a lot of Asian parents who don’t want their kids to lose their Chinese language skills after immigrating to Canada.

[FLBiker]

We're thinking of doing something similar(ish) but not for resettlement reasons.  We are recent migrants to Canada and intend to stay there for FIRE.  Our daughter is 6, doing French immersion, and we're planning to spend some time each summer in Quebec.  I may work remotely during that time (likely part-time).  We might put her in a program, but I think we're more interested in just having her explore and use the language.  She just started grade one, and it's been impressive to see how much she already has learned.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Good suggestions thus far.  I understand the statements that the kid isn't going to learn much only learning in the summer.  I'm leaning towards France, since in Canada you learn French in school and this would be a way for her to become more fluent.  The wife is fluent in Mandarin, so China is also an option, but time zones would make that difficult.  We would need to have the kid in some sort of program, since we'd be working remote for a lot of time we would be there.  I think I can get my wife to agree to a summer, if I can find a suitable program for the daughter.  I like the suggestion about potentially doing something in Quebec, there are a lot of beautiful areas in that province with some nice summer cottages.  In reality my goal is to live in a bunch of different countries once we Fire and this is my attempt to get my DW to open her mind to the possibility.  I actually think living in different countries would be good for DD, it would be great exposure, but DW is big on education so I can see some issues with that.

I think you’re underestimating the challenges of living in foreign countries, adapting to new languages and cultures, and then you’re indicating you want to do this multiple times with a child? Consider from their perspective of moving, building friendships, educational systems and then uprooting to do it all again. It might be romantic for you, it could be a nightmare for a child.

If you’re interested who did what you’re thinking with an older child but they picked one country and stayed there, check out: https://www.millionaireeducator.com/

If you’re wife speaks Mandarin, she could speak to your child only in Mandarin. Learning French in Canada should be relatively easy. Again, let the pandemic calm down, start language study now, visit places first and do your research. The #1 reason that expats fail is the partner or children are unhappy in the foreign country.

[ysette9]

My experience so far with going kids is that moving with them is relatively easy if the home structure stays stable. Granted, we have only moved within the same country, but starting public school for my oldest meant a new language since we don’t speak English with the kids at home. They have gone to new preschools and schools more frequently than we would have preferred these past few years for Reasons snd i was prepared for more struggle adapting than they have shown. I imagine this gets harder the older they are.

I am strongly for doing whatever language immersion you have available to you from an early age because their little brains are so plastic and wires for learning. I learned a foreign language as a teenager and it was SO much harder. The gift I want to give my kids is multilingualism without all of the hard work. Lol

Do you live in or near a big urban area now? If so there likely are classes or groups she can get into now. My kids are in a small French immersion preschool/after school. My oldest does Saturday morning French school. You might have to look harder but you may be pleasantly surprised by what is available. I second your wife speaking exclusively mandarin with your kid if she can make the switch. That is what my husband does with our kids. It might feel weird at first but if you commit 100% to it, it becomes quickly something you don’t even think about doing because it is natural.

[JJ-]

My experience so far with going kids is that moving with them is relatively easy if the home structure stays stable. Granted, we have only moved within the same country, but starting public school for my oldest meant a new language since we don’t speak English with the kids at home. They have gone to new preschools and schools more frequently than we would have preferred these past few years for Reasons snd i was prepared for more struggle adapting than they have shown. I imagine this gets harder the older they are.

I am strongly for doing whatever language immersion you have available to you from an early age because their little brains are so plastic and wires for learning. I learned a foreign language as a teenager and it was SO much harder. The gift I want to give my kids is multilingualism without all of the hard work. Lol

Do you live in or near a big urban area now? If so there likely are classes or groups she can get into now. My kids are in a small French immersion preschool/after school. My oldest does Saturday morning French school. You might have to look harder but you may be pleasantly surprised by what is available. I second your wife speaking exclusively mandarin with your kid if she can make the switch. That is what my husband does with our kids. It might feel weird at first but if you commit 100% to it, it becomes quickly something you don’t even think about doing because it is natural.

I speak almost exclusively to my kids (4, 1.5 yo) in French since their birth and it is weird to speak English to them, and pretty difficult for me to speak English to kids their age. Our 4 yo daughter is definitely more comfortable and better in English but speaks French about as well you can expect a small kid who gets French in the mornings/evenings/weekends and occasionally classes.

One thing I have noticed is that sometimes getting her out of tantrums/meltdowns, I have to meet her on her level and go to English where she's more comfortable. Once we're out of the thick of it I swap back into French. The 1.5 yo has absorbed French so much more quickly after being around it almost non stop for the last 1.5 years of pandemic, hearing it all day between me and DD as well as directly to him. I may not have to do this with him, but we'll see.

[ixtap]

My experience so far with going kids is that moving with them is relatively easy if the home structure stays stable. Granted, we have only moved within the same country, but starting public school for my oldest meant a new language since we don’t speak English with the kids at home. They have gone to new preschools and schools more frequently than we would have preferred these past few years for Reasons snd i was prepared for more struggle adapting than they have shown. I imagine this gets harder the older they are.

I am strongly for doing whatever language immersion you have available to you from an early age because their little brains are so plastic and wires for learning. I learned a foreign language as a teenager and it was SO much harder. The gift I want to give my kids is multilingualism without all of the hard work. Lol

Do you live in or near a big urban area now? If so there likely are classes or groups she can get into now. My kids are in a small French immersion preschool/after school. My oldest does Saturday morning French school. You might have to look harder but you may be pleasantly surprised by what is available. I second your wife speaking exclusively mandarin with your kid if she can make the switch. That is what my husband does with our kids. It might feel weird at first but if you commit 100% to it, it becomes quickly something you don’t even think about doing because it is natural.

I speak almost exclusively to my kids (4, 1.5 yo) in French since their birth and it is weird to speak English to them, and pretty difficult for me to speak English to kids their age. Our 4 yo daughter is definitely more comfortable and better in English but speaks French about as well you can expect a small kid who gets French in the mornings/evenings/weekends and occasionally classes.

One thing I have noticed is that sometimes getting her out of tantrums/meltdowns, I have to meet her on her level and go to English where she's more comfortable. Once we're out of the thick of it I swap back into French. The 1.5 yo has absorbed French so much more quickly after being around it almost non stop for the last 1.5 years of pandemic, hearing it all day between me and DD as well as directly to him. I may not have to do this with him, but we'll see.

Kids often develop a preferred language for various reasons. When I worked in daycate, one kid visited the home country for a month. Wouldn't talk to the grandparents in their language, even though it was the language he used with parents. Got back to US, wouldn't talk to be in English for nearly a month. Then he peed on me while potty training and everything was back to normal.

[JJ-]

My experience so far with going kids is that moving with them is relatively easy if the home structure stays stable. Granted, we have only moved within the same country, but starting public school for my oldest meant a new language since we don’t speak English with the kids at home. They have gone to new preschools and schools more frequently than we would have preferred these past few years for Reasons snd i was prepared for more struggle adapting than they have shown. I imagine this gets harder the older they are.

I am strongly for doing whatever language immersion you have available to you from an early age because their little brains are so plastic and wires for learning. I learned a foreign language as a teenager and it was SO much harder. The gift I want to give my kids is multilingualism without all of the hard work. Lol

Do you live in or near a big urban area now? If so there likely are classes or groups she can get into now. My kids are in a small French immersion preschool/after school. My oldest does Saturday morning French school. You might have to look harder but you may be pleasantly surprised by what is available. I second your wife speaking exclusively mandarin with your kid if she can make the switch. That is what my husband does with our kids. It might feel weird at first but if you commit 100% to it, it becomes quickly something you don’t even think about doing because it is natural.

I speak almost exclusively to my kids (4, 1.5 yo) in French since their birth and it is weird to speak English to them, and pretty difficult for me to speak English to kids their age. Our 4 yo daughter is definitely more comfortable and better in English but speaks French about as well you can expect a small kid who gets French in the mornings/evenings/weekends and occasionally classes.

One thing I have noticed is that sometimes getting her out of tantrums/meltdowns, I have to meet her on her level and go to English where she's more comfortable. Once we're out of the thick of it I swap back into French. The 1.5 yo has absorbed French so much more quickly after being around it almost non stop for the last 1.5 years of pandemic, hearing it all day between me and DD as well as directly to him. I may not have to do this with him, but we'll see.

Kids often develop a preferred language for various reasons. When I worked in daycate, one kid visited the home country for a month. Wouldn't talk to the grandparents in their language, even though it was the language he used with parents. Got back to US, wouldn't talk to be in English for nearly a month. Then he peed on me while potty training and everything was back to normal.

I've since learned that just like me, kids hate to be jerked around and have no voice in things. Also, that toddlers/preschoolers have the emotional range of teenagers without the behavioral and societal controls that they have. So, sometimes I get peed on because that's just what their stressed brains tell them to do to get their life back to normal.